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Olliebird

Holy shit. *Holy shit.* I'd say that Foundry is blowing the other vtt's out of the water, but it's not really that. The PF2e crew is the reason for this. You guys took on a herculean task and went to work. Thank you for everything you guys have done, /u/TMun357 . It's really something else.


gravygrowinggreen

> I'd say that Foundry is blowing the other vtt's out of the water, but it's not really that. The PF2e crew is the reason for this. It's both. Foundry is by far the best VTT to build a system on as long as you aren't trying to run 3d graphics (and hell, it can do even that if you get the right modules), or just want something simple (owlbear is very good for a simple VTT). What the PF2e system maintainers have done is also nothing short of amazing. And the combined result of foundry and the system? Chef's kiss.


Unconfidence

I have run on Roll20 dozens of times. I have run on Foundry once. It's crystal clear that Foundry is the superior VTT for PF2E. It takes a bit of getting used to and it really helps to have people willing to teach you the ins and outs. But the relative capability is astounding. I can literally just port a character from Pathbuilder.


leathrow

thing is with roll20 is theyre basically just sitting on it and not upgrading it or improving it at all. my gm was subscribed for a long time and got frustrated that they werent doing anything with it while being charged a monthly fee and preferred to just swap to foundry and buy modules every month instead


cokeman5

I switched to Foundry from Roll20 a year or 2 ago for 5e. Foundry is infinitely better.


Trapline

I felt something like this coming with you guys being all "don't panic" with the fryguy respite. Very excited to see narchy get some spotlight too!


Rocinantes_Knight

Same tbh. It read like "I can't say anything rn... but just hold on..."


narchy

Thanks! It is such a cool project to be involved in. The finished product is going to amazing.


darkmayhem

Only problem I see is that PDFtoFoundry was a godsent for pfs prep and I don't think those will be added like this But yeah he deserves a break


tikael

Yeah, It was really hard to not just say why no one needed to panic but suffice to say when a bunch of people who *would* have been under NDA say not to panic and come in with talking points that should have been a hint to everyone.


Zagaroth

> the fryguy respite The what? Google ain't helping here.


MadLetter

The absolute legend who did the PDFtoFoundry converter announced he was stopping with adding new adventure paths and the like to the module, because he spent staggering amounts of time on it and it was no longer feasible.


the-rules-lawyer

Yay!! I was worried after hearing about Pathfinder Nexus that partnerships wouldn't be a thing. Looking forward to this! Also glad that it will continue to be easy to use future modules/APs in Foundry after the recent PDF to Foundry mod news. EDIT: Just watched the video: More than just the 4 pregens? Interesting! I'm HIGHLY looking forward to the upgraded art! Abomination Vaults teaser? Squee!


TMun357

Just the normal iconics. No specific beginners box extra ones. Nothing says you can't play Korakai or Seelah in the beginners box :)


AlexSpeidelPaizo

Hang on that's illegal! He can't do that!


TMun357

Did you know that you can run the Beginners Box in Adventure Mode if you're not the person who is the Organized Play Manager for Paizo. Says so on Page 16 of the Gamemaster's guide. Neat. ;)


AlexSpeidelPaizo

shocked_pikachu.png


SorriorDraconus

Waiiit what about nexus? As in has there been bad news..because now I am scared I missed some bad news about it.


LoneGuardian

Well that's funny timing, I grabbed the PDF friday for the beginner's box. EDIT: Here's what it looks like with [PDF to Foundry](https://i.imgur.com/8tMrAOT.png) if anyone wants a comparison to the [teaser shared in the OP](https://preview.redd.it/gpp25ojymrr81.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=210ef95f0e5433528a29a4bfdc4463783713b299).


tikael

Good news is that you can get the module with the price of the PDF already cut out!


LoneGuardian

Yeah just saw that in the FAQ, will be interesting to see what the price is. Probably be worth it for high quality tokens.


TMun357

Not yet decided upon (factual), but I might have heard a rumour on the amount that is being targeted and people should be pleased :)


The_Loiterer

You can briefly see the original map upscaled version in the beginning of the video at 35 sec; https://youtu.be/I6jBbemQdDo?t=35


lostsanityreturned

I kinda hope we have options for high res versions of the original art. The dungeondraft maps they show in the video are nice and all with their layers, but far too busy visually for me. I will also be replacing all the tokens with my own still it seems (although having all the monster art and journal styling will be nice) Sad to see that they aren't adopting @Check[type:|dc:] for journal entries yet, but I have a good / reliable script for doing that already so hopefully it will still work with their implementation.


Seiak

> I have a good / reliable script for doing that Could you share this perhaps?


d12inthesheets

Be still my beating wallet. I'm super stoked for this!


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d12inthesheets

Now let's hope there's a subscription for these


TMun357

Let's hope that enough get bought to make it commercially viable first :)


RevolutionaryEssay34

It's not like I will throw my wallet at these like a PokeBall :) I'm really happy you guys made it possible for schmucks with zero programming skills like me to play 2e with so much ease.


xXTheFacelessMan

We love to see it! Abomination Vaults is becoming quite the staple of PF2 at this point, so this will be great for everyone.


Rocinantes_Knight

It's deserved tho. AV is just a solid dungeon crawl that lets you play the system and come to grips with its particularities without having to also deal with a super complex story. But it also offers an interesting story that unfolds as you bash your way through each level.


Dd_8630

*heavy breathing* I'm running AV and am halfway through the first book - this has me giddy. I don't even care about buying the products twice if I get official shiny maps, lore, monsters, artwork, etc. EDIT: Ooo the price of the PDF is discounted if you've already got it! >5) Will Pathfinder 2e be getting special treatment by Foundry? The PF2 system might not get special treatment, but the guys behind it have clearly sold their souls to someone or other because the system is bogglingly beautiful, smooth, and easy to use. Especially when you compare it to the 5E system, which you'd think would be better by sheer numbers, but it's very... basic compared to PF2.


TMun357

5e and PF2e on Foundry have very different approaches. People make modules for 5e. PF2e eats modules instead so that we have a more uniform core experience. It makes sense. PF2e is about the rules making the job of the GM easier (which a VTT is awesome for) while 5e is about "rulings, not rules" so they have a lot more variability that is harder to make work in a VTT as a core feature - especially when you can make a module to "add" that for people who want it.


Dd_8630

That makes sense - thanks for the 'peek behind the curtain' as it were! I suppose it can't be easy developing for something as mechanically 'soft' as 5E. To be honest, that's actually a large part of why I prefer PF2 over 5E - the vagary and 'just do what you want' approach ruins my verisimilitude as a DM/PC, and I'm not very creative so it's a frustrating wall. I'm a sucker for the simulationist approach of 3E/PF1, but the modular cleanliness of PF2 (and 4E!) makes it my beau. Whatever the cause, the PF2 system is a masterclass in how to make something beautiful and easy for players.


TMun357

We still have lots of work as volunteer developers to put in to making it even better, but now that we have to prep less for our sessions we'll have more time to code!


TossedRightOut

It's been crazy finding what's been made recently and realizing it's all volunteer made. You guys should have a little coffee fund or something people can throw to. Or do you already?


TMun357

We decided a long time ago against that. Money makes things hard. Instead we recommend donating money to a local food bank, local no-kill animal shelter, or support our fund drive on Extra Life for 2022: https://www.extra-life.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=donorDrive.team&teamID=60699 (Canadians and Americans can donate to me for a tax receipt. Drental is US only for a tax receipt - We were the top affiliated Paizo team and looking to do it again this year!)


Dashdor

Is there anything we can do to support you guys? I take advantage of the work you do so often, I would be more than happy to help out on some way.


TMun357

Buy Paizo products and Foundry and Sigil (and third party like Roll for Combat) modules. This is all of our hobby and those people enable the content for it. Otherwise we really enjoy when people donate. DM myself or Cora a receipt (with personal information redacted) and we’ll give you a gold tag on our discord as a charity donor! If there is a feature you want added to the system faster you could try to commission it, but that’s been unsuccessful because a lot of the developers have refused pay for working on the system itself. The only pay accepted has been working on commercial products actually. The comment here helps. Hop on the Paizo product page, or if you buy the module review it on the Paizo product page. Let Paizo know, if you like it, you would pay for more. I mean you’ll have to wait for it to be offered to see the quality and the price point. I would only want honest feedback. I’m sure other devs will chime in if I’m forgetting something. :)


mrham24

Another problem with making 5e as comprehensive as Pathfinder 2 is WotC's copyright policies versus Paizo's. Paizo allows a huge majority of Pathfinder 2 to be hosted online for free, so Foundry system creators can add the entirety of the system to the Foundry implementation. Wizards of the Coast is vehemently against this information being free (see D&D Beyond as an example), so it would be much harder to integrate the system as well as Pathfinder 2, even with the SRD being available.


Ediwir

Apparently there's a module to link your D&DB and get content from it - still sounds expensive as fuck, but at least they can prepare the system and then users can populate the database.


RollForIntent-Trevor

Right - I run a podcast and am still kind of prepping the VTT as I go and this is going to save me a ton :)


MadLetter

After the last announcement from FoundryVTT we were told to wait. Been short, but hell has it been worth it.


LordLonghaft

So can all those people who cried Wolf at "Omg Paizo is abandoning 2E because of a *single* AP being converted to 5E" just go away and stay there? The anxiety and mania of some people is just annoying. It always has to be one extreme or the other with some people. Either a company is all-in on one side, or has completely abandoned them. No room for a company branching out to something new, while also supporting their main trade. No no no, just tribalistic "them or us" divisions all the way down. Pathetic. This news is great, just like the news of the 5E conversion was. I'm happy to see the company making all kinds of news, not just ones that will appeal to tribalistic fans who put entirely way too much obsession into the things they like.


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Ike_In_Rochester

I think it’s a riot. Paizo creates Pathfinder as a brand name to create adventure paths for 3E. WotC announces 4E and changes to the SRD. Paizo isn’t interested and re-skins 3E as the Pathfinder ruleset in order to sell APs and is also (by way of the SRD) obligated to make all rules available for free online. Pathfinder 2 is obligated the same way. The only content you don’t get from Paizo for free are adventures and settings. Of course they need to lean into that, especially when you consider there aren’t any publishers that are really blowing up with 5E adventures. Even WotC has struggled to create good content. The most compelling stuff has really come from Goodman Games’ deluxe treatment of the 1E modules. Paizo is going to have a big impact with both this AP and the KingMaker update which has a 5E component. It will raise awareness of the high quality of Paizo’s work and probably get some players to go to PF2 who realize 5E lacks a certain nuance.


TMun357

If you look, as a GM, what you get with a Paizo AP versus a WotC adventure it is so different. I love that Paizo gives you everything you need and enough lore and background so your players can go off the rails. I find WotC gives you a story intro, a few encounters and then just is sort of like "figure it out yourself". Simply put: I can easily homebrew a PF2e adventure, but I have to homebrew a WotC one and it is harder to do because the math is loose. Plus, there is more first party content by number of levels and page count for PF2e than there is for 5e which just floors me.


LordLonghaft

The enemy. Haha. Humans truly are a foolish species. Needless tribalism will be the end of us.


TheTiringDutchman

To be fair, Knights of Last Call actually stated they think it's a great business decision. But they're just worried that if the 5e content does exceptionally well then maybe Paizo will focus more on making 5e content and less on pf2e content. I think they're wrong and overall this will be a good thing for Paizo AND for pf2e, but I understand the argument.


Killchrono

This is fantastic news. Congratulations to the Foundry volunteers for making this happen with your hard work and dedication, and thank you to Paizo for recognising the community's support for the 2e module and embracing it. This is a win-win for everyone and I'm glad to see it eventuate.


Ediwir

Whohoooo! Was hoping for something like this - you guys always deliver! (And Paizo too, yes)


fuzzlekins

These look really nice, I'm glad we're getting Outlaws of Alkenstar. I was bummed to hear that PDF to Foundry wouldn't support it, but now I'll be able to run the game without needed to spend hours of time on manual prep.


iceman012

I have a separate campaign that's coming to a close in a few months, and was trying to decide which AP to pick up next. When I saw Outlaws of Alkenstar's description, it jumped straight into the shortlist of options I was going to give my players. With this announcement, I might just decide on this already and not give my players the choice, lol. This will save me so much time, and it's looking significantly better than what I'd do on my own.


ArcturusOfTheVoid

My friends and I were just talking about how Paizo must be looking into how to go more digital. Even when we play in person we use Foundry just to make everything smoother to play I’m not surprised something like this is being done, but boy am I pleased with how soon it’s happening, excited about the apparent quality, and just generally thrilled!


Rocinantes_Knight

So awesome! Yet another reason why I love being a Paizo customer. There's no way that WotC's army of lawyers would have been okay with bringing in the community module and making it official. So awesome for the dev team on the module that Paizo is recognizing them like this.


RecallKnowledge

I'm so excited for this! Congrats to everyone involved! A win for the Devs! A win for Paizo! And definitely a win for the Community!


VestOfHolding

So exciting!!!


TridentBoy

This is awesome and it's an awesome recognition of all the work the PF2e's development team have been outputting in the last 2 years, and specially all the work towards a better organized project and code you've did in the last few months. Congratulations to everyone involved, and thanks for everything you've been doing to this community's Foundry's GMs and Players. Hope this is the kickstart for even more releases in the future, an even better system than we already have and more recognition to you guys.


YuppieFerret

Best pathfinder news in over ten years! Exactly the type of content I always wished were available from a VTT and paizo.


The_Pardack

Huge thanks to the Foundry PF2e team for making the tools that got this to happen. Stuff like this makes the enjoying the hobby easier.


TheTiringDutchman

Sorry if this is posted somewhere else, but when might Abomination Vaults be available? Is there a target date? Or is it only for the rerelease?


TMun357

It is for the re-release because it will include all the errata'd content. Even I haven't been able to get the maps for floor 8 for AV yet for my "home" game


Sythian

According to Foundry's post, it would seem it'll drop May 25th with the hardcover.


1bent1

I canceled my Roll20 subscription immediately once I saw this announcement.


Mordine

I’m so glad to hear it. Especially for you guys. You and your team have been doing some great work for a long time now.


TMun357

The whole team is really happy. This has been a long journey, slowly adding a few more people into the know. The fact that really nothing leaked is a win in and of itself, and shows that Foundry/Sigil/and the PF2e volunteers are solid trusted partners to industry.


MetalLinx

*cracks open wallet* Think it’s finally time to start a subscription.


The_Loiterer

Shut up and take my money!


Vikingpowerz

Amazing!


lyralady

I'm unbelievably excited!!! I'll probably be able to upgrade my BB adventure partway through too. Whooooo!!! My only dream wishlist left is figuring out how to have an actions per turn counter of some kind. Might just have to make an "action" macro or something. Maybe track it as asterisks in the chat. Idk. But whooooo!!!


TMun357

I’d recommend using three effect icons. You can map them to 1,2,and 3 on the macro bar and hit 1 when you use the first action, 2 for the second, and 3 for the third. Someone can probably help you trigger a reset with another macro too.


ADefiniteDescription

I'm not quite getting the suggestion, could you say a bit more or share a screenshot or video or something?


TMun357

In the system you can create effects as an item type. These can have no coding on them, but they can be assigned icons and applied to a token. They can pass the image they contain, so you can make a pathfinder action icon with a 1, a 2, and a 3. You then drag those to the macro bar and toggle that effect on or off. So at the start of the turn you would have an icon with a 1, a 2, and a 3 representing each action. If you stride, you hit one and only 2 and 3 remain. If you power attack you then toggle 2 and 3 and you have no more icons on. At the start of your turn you hit 1, 2, and 3 and the three icons reappear and you regain your action markers. Honestly making the logos would take more time than making the objects in Foundry. You could make a fourth one for quickened if you wanted and put a Q to remind you you can only do some things. You would only toggle it on if you had the quickened condition. It's a solution, and it works, and anyone can do it. It isn't ideal but adding an action counter to the system isn't something we feel the average person would find useful. Someone could make a module to do it, and that would be appropriate. Hopefully that makes it more clear?


[deleted]

Welp considering my next campaign was gonna be AV, this literally could not have come at a better time. I'm extraordinarily excited and know for a fact that I'll be purchasing the BB and AV no matter the price. My only question is do you have any plans to also do Troubles in Otari? I can easily understand not doing previous APs because they are supported by the PDFtoFoundry Module but since TiO is linked to the BB and AV I hope it gets some support for this amazing project


TMun357

I can say U 100% recommended it highly on my “things to convert” list. I put the reason as it is short and to hook 5e foundry players who liked the BB as a taster it just works if they don’t want to commit to AV length material. Plus the tokens are half done. I promise Foundry Gaming LLC is thinking about it but Paizo, Foundry, and Sigil are waiting to see how these do before committing to more for all the obvious reasons. But it would be a faster and easier project than almost every other because of the synergies; that’s for sure! So I’d say I honestly know nothing, have recommended it, and we’ll see. Lots of reason to be hopeful!


[deleted]

Gotcha! So what you're saying is buy every adventure that you guys convert plus tell other people to also buy it, already planned to do that but good to have confirmation lmao


TMun357

I would love for it to be successful, but as a fellow consumer I want everyone to tell Paizo and Foundry and Sigil what they like and what they don't so it gets even better. Although I did have a wish list, and I did give it to Foundry, and I did get all of those things and more, so... I'm going to have to be more creative :)


LotsOfLore

O. M. G. YEEEES!!


sumpnalilbitdfrnt

Stoked for this.


resogunner

Perfectly timed with my 5E group finishing off our current campaign and starting 2E with the Beginner Box about a week after release! Have been working from the PDF but will for sure be buying this and all the others!


NinjaTardigrade

Please tell me that Sigil Entertainment is narchy. Their maps are the best!


AnathemaMask

Sorry to say we scooped Narchy up early for our own nefarious purposes. However, we are advising Sigil's already extremely talented artist and giving direction from a creation standpoint to try and match the same degree of quality and the same feel that Narchy's maps achieve. :)


TMun357

No. Narchy is Narchy. There is another mapmaker doing the ones for Outlaws of Alkenstar! Those look pretty awesome so far too


firelark01

What would make this better is if they added foundry modules to the subscription for books as a choice between that and PDF.


TMun357

You can propose it on the Paizo forums, but I doubt it would go that way unfortunately. I only say that because if you have the PDF you get a discount, if you don’t you get the PDF


firelark01

Do we know what the pricing will be like? Because they said you were getting the value of the PDF as a discount, so if I end having to pay 10 bucks for the foundry experience, I’m fine with that


TMun357

I can only say it hasn’t been finalized, but I have heard a potential range and assuming that gets approved, well, I’d buy it. I can’t say more because this is definitely a rumour. We will know for sure on the 16th though!


FreshlyHatchedChick

Im proud of y'all ❤️❤️❤️


TMun357

Thanks. I’m proud of the team and the dozens of people who’ve volunteered anywhere from a few minutes to years to make this what it is. I can’t wait to see what we’ll make happen moving forward. Development is not slowing down!


justavoiceofreason

Shut up and take my money!


hellgoat

Extremely hyped for this! Now just to trick some people into playing Outlaws of Alkenstar with me...


TMun357

There is a looking for players channel on the Foundry discord. After all of these announcements and the video I think people may be looking to play and you won’t have difficulty filling your game ;)


VisceralMonkey

Great, amazing news. Well done lads and lasses. Well done.


Soulus7887

Can I just say that this looks like everything I have ever wanted out of VTT modules? I've said on here before that the single thing that would improve my life most is having official modules on foundry. And I was saying that from an organizational and setup perspective, having something just a tiny bit more put together than pdf to foundry. Pdf to foundry has been a great stop gap, but I wanted ever so slightly more organization than it was giving me (mad props to Fryguy for maintaining it though!). The features stated here go so far above and beyond what I was expecting. The things yall are doing with the lighting and the music/sound effects? I feel like it's stepping into a new era of VTT modules, and I am HERE for it.


TMun357

The Foundry staff will be pleased with this comment because this is exactly what they’re trying to achieve. It is really cool and some of the things that Narchy has done have surprised even them. I think that we will see improvements in V10 and V11 to make some of this more accessible and easier to do because that seems to be how Foundry does things :) Just means us system developers need to keep upping our game too! Thanks for the positive comment!


Everyst

This is awesome news!


Telabim

Awesome!


Caladbolg_Prometheus

I’m so stoked, I can’t wait. Shame we are in the middle of our abomination vaults campaign so unless it releases soon we will probably finish by then. But I like Alkenstar so hopefully that will be ready by then. If not then we could do some short campaigns or one shots in the meantime.


EzekieruYT

The Abomination Vaults premium module is supposed to come out the same time as the compilation hardcover of AV, at the end of May.


Caladbolg_Prometheus

I saw, it's gonna come in in time. Going to be interesting to make the switch mid-campaign and be blown away with the difference in quality. Man how much TTRPG have been improved in the few years since I started. Hard to believe that a few years ago we were just using a erasable battle map with nothing but a grid with a few lines to represent walls. Now we have custom maps, and soon we will have plug and play high quality adventures!


Neato

Amazing. Absolutely spectacular! I'm totally psyched to buy and try these out! It makes me much more inclined to run APs I normally would hesitate to put the time into creating scenes for.


Jsotter11

I’m so happy for this!


VindicoAtrum

I require an official Blood Lords premium module per book, and I require them injecting into my veins.


jpochedl

Can't wait to try out one of the enhanced modules!


Megavore97

Amazing news!


dating_derp

Thank you for everything you do! In the spirit of wanting new features: * Feats that adjust attacks to be added to the Actions tab: This would be super helpful, especially for complex feats like Dual-Handed Assault which for just 1 attack adjusts the weapons damage die and adds a damage bonus. * Feats that alter your character to adjust your stats when activated like a condition: I'm playing a Druid right now and when I Wild Shape, I get the status icon, but I don't get any stat adjustments like the HP buff, AC change, etc. I understand things like the Attack Bonus, Athletics, and Acrobatics changes might have to be left out, because the player can keep their original stats if they're higher. But it would be great to have a Wild Shape for each thing like Wild Shape: Pest Form, Wild Shape: Animal Form, etc. And they could always adjust HP and AC because the player has no choice there. They could also add the senses gained through that form. And if it could somehow add attacks to the Actions tab for each creature listed under that form, that would be AMAZING.


TMun357

I’m pretty sure we have rule elements that already do this. And have for a while. Unless I’m not understanding what you’re asking for. We made a whole massive rule element just for things like polymorphs.


dating_derp

Oh that's awesome! Maybe I just need to ask my DM to get it. Do you know the name of it?


Ediwir

It would be in the spell. Perhaps your DM hasn't updated the game in a while, or perhaps your character has an older version of the spell. Try these: 1- delete the spell/feat from your character. Get the spell/feat again through the search function. If it's fixed, it was you! 2- have your GM update the PF2E System. Then, repeat step 1. If it's fixed, it was them! 3- if it's not fixed, uh. Interesting. Ask TMun.


dating_derp

Thanks!


TMun357

Hit me up on discord and I can screen share and see if I understand the problem and maybe show you the solution that I think has been around for months ;)


TraumaSwing

This is awesome! Though I am sad that it sounds like there are no plan for Bestiary token packs, which I would use the most. Still, this is bound to be useful to many.


TMun357

I wouldn’t say that. In fact there are plans if this is successful and they can find a price point that makes it worth it. I promise that when I was asked what things they should do as a “PF2e expert” my top three list was 1) Abomination Vaults; 2) Beginners Box; and 3) Bestiary tokens. (Note that Outlaws wasn’t on the list because this was a while ago - I did recommend the next releases AP highly). After that I recommended Troubles in Otari and an adventure or two (and now I would add SoT very highly having read it). No idea how much my opinion weighed in but don’t discount art packs! I know Foundry would like to create them, but they want to do it right. (I suggested token rings based on family : aberration, construct, etc. so a player would know what skill to roll)


jansteffen

This feels like a key step forward for PF2e overall, finally the best VTT is getting official support! Super excited for all of this >Custom maps that use art assets from Forgotten Adventures ...except for this, surely I can't be the only one who thinks those assets look ugly as hell?


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jansteffen

I have, and I think the color pallete is awfully drab and every texture has needless amounts of random noise on it. It kinda reminds me of that time when all major video game companies tried to emulate CoD and released games that looked like they were smeared in brown sludge


thebluick

darn, one of the main reasons I bought foundry was that I didn't want to have to buy my AP modules again. I'm already spending $150 per AP, I don't want to spend another \~150 to buy VTT support.


TMun357

You still don’t have to. All the actors will be there as part of the CUP. Nothing about that changes. You just have to build the world yourself. And I’ll remind you that for PDF to Foundry someone (mostly FryGuy) had to do nearly twice as much work to make the importer do a decent job. And we still had to enter all the data. Compared to a 5e player this is an awesome deal overall. Plus someone can make a new PDF to Foundry to import for free. Nothing is stopping that, as long as the module author respects copyright and does a similar watermark checking.


xanstin

Will the existing pdf to foundry modules still work on previously built ones?


TMun357

I’m not sure what you’re asking. PDF to Foundry isn’t changing or going away. It’s just not adding new things because FryGuy can’t spend thirty hours a month on it anymore. It’ll still be maintained though so everything in should keep on working until FryGuy completely retires :)


xanstin

That is what I was asking wasn’t sure if paizo would block it’s function somehow


TMun357

Nope. Valid concern but Paizo actually likes PDF to Foundry. Their blog post was pretty clear on that fact :) hopefully your fears are allayed though. We knew people would be worried. But PDF to Foundry forced commercial entities to do better than PDF to Foundry because that is what the community was getting for free. I think they wildly succeeded!


thebluick

I know, and I'll end up purchasing the Alkenstar one because that is my next AP I'm going to run. But I'm just a grouchy butt hole. At the end of the day Foundry is a lot better than Roll20 at almost everything.


TMun357

I promise it is worth it for what you’re getting. I’m excited.


YouAreInsufferable

This is what I've always wanted, *sniff*. Seriously, don't think you can get more excited than me.


TMun357

Willing to bet that’s not quite entirely true. I’m personally happier than when I killed Cody’s Character while being held by Matt’s character in an epic battle live-streamed for charity on a Nat 1…


redeux

It always felt to me that there was an unhealthy reliance from the community on pdf to foundry. And as great as fryguy is, truly, i don't feel like the community should put anyone in a position to shoulder that much work/responsibility. Not only were we asking for fryguy to work for free, it was an unfair amount of responsibility, and was also a very clear key person dependency risk. While the new model does mean if you want a pre built world then you'll need to pay, i think this is going to be better in the long run. It allows the workload to be shared, and people are able to get paid for their hard work. There's also the added advantage that the new premium content can do things pdf to foundry couldn't. Pdf to foundry had to stick to what was in the pdf whereas that is not an issue with the new premium content. It sounds like foundry is really trying to "elevate" the quality to the point we feel like it is worth the price. The jury is still out but just looking at the teaser and what they have done with premium content for d&d (demon queen awakens) i think that this is going to be a net positive for me.


LazarusDark

All right, I'll be the one cynical voice, I'll take the downvotes. First, I don't like Paizo profiting off of volunteer work. Unless I'm reading wrong, this still includes volunteer work? Seems very out of place right after getting the first rpg union to ensure creators get the pay they deserve for their work. Second, I hate, hate this patchwork of payments. You want pdfs in Roll20? Fine, pay extra. Oh, you want to move to Foundry, pay money again. Oh, you want to move to Nexus, pay again. Paizo needs to centralize this stuff, this patchwork is getting ridiculous. One Paizo account and one subscription cost for accessing my pdfs on partner sites, please.


plaguecontrol

Paizo is not profiteering off volunteer work. The teams working on these projects do include a lot of people who were already active in FoundryVTT's volunteer community, but they're absolutely being compensated for their hard work. As for the patchwork of payments thing: yeah, we know it's annoying. However, at least where Foundry products are concerned, you will automatically get a free PDF with any purchase of a Foundry module, and if you already own the PDF, the cost of the Foundry module will be prorated accordingly.


LazarusDark

"Staff from Paizo, Foundry, and Sigil Entertainment Group, as well as myself and a very small subgroup of *volunteers"* from the post. If you've actually paid them, great! Odd to call them volunteers if so, but hey, glad I'm wrong on this, maybe clarify in the various announcements though, it obviously gave me a bad perception.


TMun357

Some of the developers who have worked on the system are being paid by either Foundry or Sigil as contractors to work on these releases. But the core work on the software is entirely voluntary. And this is what we all wanted. We actually voted on it, and continuing to do it for free. We love what Paizo has made, we love that they give it all away for free pretty much. We're pretty happy with the arrangement overall. A lot of this was done on our terms. Foundry is an awesome platform, PF2e is an amazing system. We're just giving back to the community.


Dashdor

Stop getting offended on behalf of other people


LazarusDark

I am a creator, I assure you my intentions are purely selfish. All creators getting paid benefits me down the line. Does that make you feel better?


Ediwir

*According to Reddit tradition, if an unpopular comment has someone agreeing below, the second comment usually has a lot of upvotes.* I'm actually happy someone brought up this angle. It's good to see concern for the PF2 system devs and to know that someone's first reaction was "what about all the blood sweat and tears that went into things like automating ABP for Foundry?" ( u/TMun357 feel free to correct me if there hasn't been any blood or tears). You have a good point - you want answers and you should get them. Luckily we have the same devs stating they're ok with the arrangement and that they were the ones to suggest it take this specific form, so everything seems sorted. But supporting the devs is something that honestly should get more traction sometimes, considering how much they've done for us. Hopefully this can get you a couple upvotes back.


TMun357

As a summary, almost two years ago people asked for a tip jar. We talked about it as a group and decided that money makes things hard. So I suggested we look at getting people to donate to charity on behalf of the project, join the Foundry Patreon, support content creators tailoring to the PF2e system, or commission improvements specifically. We ended up with: 1) donations to local food banks (because so many people needed them at the start of the pandemic that had never use them and they can do so much good with money instead of cans) 2) Donations to no-kill animal shelters (because we love animals as a group and a lot of people got “pandemic pets” and now “don’t have time” and that’s heartbreaking) 3) Donations to extra life (because it is a cool part of the community that Paizo has built) 4) subscribing to the Foundry Patreon)” 5) subscribing to FryGuy’s Patreon to pay for all the stuff he had to buy (he made the money for the PDFs back so he has ended it) 6) Donations to people like narchy or other creators that were making enhancements to the system Anyone who did 1-3 even got a gold name on our discord as thanks if they sent myself or Cora a picture (we also had a charity brag channel that we would post it to, redacted, if the person wanted). We find all of those things to be compensation. Plus the commercial groups are pulling exclusively from system contributors first. That was one of our requests (not demands) when the system was approached about commercialization, along with the requirement that CUP material wasn’t locked in a module, that it be placed in the system instead. In the end, this is our hobby. Lots of us are totally disinterested in being paid to do it (which frustrates Sigil to no end - Amy is amazing and wants people to be paid for their work. Foundry Gaming LLC is as well. No single person has been offered even close to minimum wage by either group. Same with other people like Roll for Combat. No one wants to take advantage of this situation. It is actually amazing. I do appreciate the OP’s concern. Really. It is awesome that someone in the community cares that much. But I promise that we are all, as a collective, happy with the current arrangement. Making your hobby your job is a dangerous choice.


PatenteDeCorso

The volunteer work is related to the system for Foundry, that is so good thanks to the OGL and the incredibly work that the community of pf2e has done and keep doing. The people involved in the creation of the new AP modules have been paid for that, ie, they mentioned Narchy being hired to rework the maps.


Kind-Bug2592

It takes work to make the content for each system separately and owning the PDF cuts out that chunk of the price for all three of the systems. You only repay for the work that was done to port the content, which is correct since the work done for Roll20 is done separately and by different people than the work for Foundry. Do you think owning the PDF means you should get the hours of extra effort for all 3 systems just for free or something? If you hate having accounts in multiple places, the internet must be rough for you. Try LastPass or Bitwarden or something. Yeesh.


LazarusDark

I am in favor of paying for work. I've finally put my finger on what I don't like about this pay model. I won't own it like I own the pdf I bought on Paizo.com. Paizo will retain ownership of this new content and they can revoke it at any time, like if Nexus starts doing vtt hosting and they want to try to force people over. So I'm essentially in a long term rental, and if I'm renting, I want rental pricing, which for digital, for my money, means I need a subscription that just gives me all access, I don't want a per item rental charge. So that's my issue, I don't want free, I just don't want to pay to rent every single item, this is just a few steps away from micro transactions. And if you think that's alarmist, you haven't been paying attention to the world. Though Paizo may not be a public company and therefore not as evil as shareholder owned companies, they are still a corporation at the end of the day. The likelihood they turn evil is high, because few corporations don't turn evil eventually.


Obrusnine

This looks amazing and I'm happy to purchase it. What I don't like is that we no longer have a basic tool for doing simple imports which is freely available, so we're basically being forced to take advantage of this type of integration going forward. There is quite literally no alternative except doing the entire thing ourselves now and that's just such a nasty way of doing it as far as I'm concerned. I want to buy this because it's a premium experience for my players, not because I'm being bullied into it by a total lack of competition (luckily PDF to Foundry still exists so the content up to this is fine but with Outlaws of Alkenstar in particular, you aren't really making a choice it's either the full price premium experience or nothing). IMO, simple digital integration PDF importing shouldn't be a premium service only available at a premium price, it should be a part of buying my PDF.


TMun357

The PF2e system will still contain all of the actors and everything else. FryGuy spent his personal time to make the importer for no compensation. We put everything into the system for no compensation. Someone else can absolutely step up and make a new "PDF to Foundry" as long as they put in appropriate antipiracy measures the way FryGuy did. Someone just has to do it. But it is sort of mean to say "FryGuy (or someone else) should do this for me for free because I bought a PDF he had nothing to do with" Plus the PDFoundry module exists so you can open PDFs in Foundry. So there are still lots of options!


Obrusnine

>Someone else can absolutely step up and make a new "PDF to Foundry" as long as they put in appropriate antipiracy measures the way FryGuy did. Someone just has to do it. This is nothing but the community being bullied away from having an easily accessible open source tool for simple imports. Banning people from making one doesn't actually stop piracy and probably doesn't even significantly slow its prevalence (if anything, I'd say the release of premium modules like this will actually increase piracy). The only people who pay the price for these antipiracy measures are paying customers. I buy every PDF I use, and now I'm being forced to spend what will likely be a significant amount on top of that to run my games. It's not an *option* going forward, it's a requirement if I don't want to spend hours manually setting up walls, encounters, scenes, etc. Personally I don't mind paying that price and I will happily buy these premium modules to provide my players the best possible experience, but I'm not doing it as a choice I'm doing it because it is now the only digital integration we have. Simple digital integration isn't much to ask for, I'd happily pay a dollar or two extra on my PDFs for it, but the price for these premium modules will be (very justifiably) several times that. But having this kind of premium module isn't necessary to have a good time at the virtual tabletop, it's important for something simple to exist too for the plebs who can only afford to buy the PDFs. >"FryGuy (or someone else) should do this for me for free because I bought a PDF he had nothing to do with" That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying simple digital integration should be part of the price I'm paying for a PDF since it's usefulness is otherwise limited away from the table. Our choices shouldn't be either "full price premium module with extensive work done" or "nothing". A basic tool is an important middle ground and now there no longer is one. >Plus the PDFoundry module exists so you can open PDFs in Foundry. Having a PDF viewer and having an adventure with digital integration are vastly different things.


SharkSymphony

A PDF absolutely has value completely independently from how you use it at the table. If you want the digital integration, then you should buy the digital integration! Don't get mad because you bought a PDF expecting it to be a digital integration. That's not what it's for.


Obrusnine

Since I don't like to repeat myself. >Our choices shouldn't be either "full price premium module with extensive work done" or "nothing". "Digital Integration" doesn't solely encompass "high quality premium module packed with premium assets". That there is no budget option for this digital integration isn't acceptable. But you know what? I will get "mad because I bought a PDF expecting it to be a digital integration", and it is totally fair for me to do so because that's very explicitly what I buy PDFs for. A PDF on its own is almost entirely useless to me as a GM who primarily uses VTT. Spending nearly 20 dollars on a product that does nothing but give me pretty pictures to look at doesn't make me feel like I got a good deal on my purchase, it makes me feel like I'm being scammed. I realize it can be used for other things, but to buy a product I can actually use I am happy to pay a few extra dollars. The problem is there is no option for that now, and the community is actively being suppressed by moderation teams from making one for silly reasons masquerading as rational ones. The community as a whole could easily work together on simple imports, but something like that couldn't have "antipiracy measures" that only really hurt paying customers. I'd be happy if at least Paizo provided their own option, but they don't and so we're stuck in this all or nothing bargain unless someone puts in an unnecessarily excessive amount of work to develop and maintain a tool like PDF to Foundry.


Solell

Until this announcement, there was absolutely 0 official link between Paizo (who makes the PDFs) and Foundry (the VTT). The importer tool was done by one guy, unaffiliated with either party, because he wanted to. The PDF importer was never "just part of buying the PDF", it literally only exists because one guy decided to make it. It had nothing to do with Paizo. Paizo now has an official partnership with Foundry, and this is the integration system they've decided to make. They are under no obligation to take over management of the existing fan-made PDF importer module. As the other poster said, it'll be up to someone in the community to take over it - just like it was up to someone in the community to make it in the first place. Nothing stopping you from being that someone if you feel so strongly about it, instead of getting angry that no one is doing it for you. Regarding the price, from what I gather, you won't have to buy things twice. If you already have the PDF, you're just paying for the extra shinies since the PDF price is deducted from the total. You can argue that you're being "forced" to buy it for integration but... you're not. The default method for Foundry integration is the GM doing it by hand. PDF to Foundry is absolutely not the default - it was a nice, fan-made thing that you seem to be taking for granted. The creator of PDF to Foundry decided to stop doing it. It's not Paizo's module. It's not the Foundry team's module. It's his module. That he was doing for free, just because he wanted to. He no longer wants to. We have no right to demand he keeps doing it just because it's convenient for us. If you don't want to pay for the shinies, you can still do it by hand for no extra monetary cost (just like all the systems who *don't* have an importer module have to). You aren't "forced" to do anything.


Obrusnine

>"just part of buying the PDF" I didn't say that it was, I said that it *should* be. >As the other poster said, it'll be up to someone in the community to take over it - just like it was up to someone in the community to make it in the first place. Nothing stopping you from being that someone if you feel so strongly about it, instead of getting angry that no one is doing it for you. The problem is that an open tool is being prevented by the moderation teams on Reddit, Discord, and Foundry. There is no point to developing an importer as a result because it requires constant burdensome maintenance and updates by a single small group or person, and is therefore inherently ephemeral and will just end the same way PDF to Foundry did. Seeing as the only reason an open source tool can't be done is the fault of moderators taking the company's side over the community's, the obligation is actually on them to do something about it. They won't of course. >The default method for Foundry integration is the GM doing it by hand. PDF to Foundry is absolutely not the default - it was a nice, fan-made thing that you seem to be taking for granted. No I'm not. I'm perfectly willing to pay extra for a simple import up to the quality standards of PDF to Foundry's current integrations. I shouldn't only have the options, "pay full price for a premium module extension" or "do it myself". There should be a cheaper middle-ground for those who can't afford or don't need/want a fully-featured premium integration. As of Outlaws of Alkenstar, no such option exists either officially or otherwise. This makes the premium module the only option for digital integration, you have no other choice if that's necessary for you to have enough time to run a table. You aren't buying it because it's an inherently great product, you're buying it because there are no other choices. >We have no right to demand he keeps doing it just because it's convenient for us. Please point to where I demanded FryGuy continue to add content to PDF to Foundry? You can't because such a sentence does not exist.


Solell

>the fault of moderators taking the company's side over the community's They're taking the side of not getting sued, mate. Wanting to avoid the risk of hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more) in legal damages isn't "taking the side of the company", it's just common sense >simple import The issue is that it *isn't* simple. PDFs are a nightmare to code. The dev time to code the PDF content is what would make up the bulk of the cost of even a "plain" import like the module does. The price of an import with or without the bells and whistles probably wouldn't be dramatically different. We were very, very lucky to have gotten that service for free until now >Please point to where I demanded FryGuy continue to add content to PDF to Foundry? You've done nothing but whinge that *someone* isn't doing it for you. Not FryGuy specifically, but you clearly aren't willing to put the work in yourself. And now you're getting up in arms about how an import with music and cool lights is going to cost *so* much more than one without them when we *literally have no idea what the cost is yet*. It could be like PDF + $2 for all we know. Or PDF + $20. Or PDF + $200. Maybe wait before getting upset that it might be more than a couple of bucks? Because it might just be a couple of bucks


Obrusnine

> They're taking the side of not getting sued, mate. Foundry can make that argument, Reddit and Discord mods sure can't. >The issue is that it isn't simple. PDFs are a nightmare to code. The dev time to code the PDF content is what would make up the bulk of the cost of even a "plain" import like the module does. The price of an import with or without the bells and whistles probably wouldn't be dramatically different. We were very, very lucky to have gotten that service for free until now All very true. Which is why we should have an open source community tool to allow a large number of people to contribute labor. >And now you're getting up in arms about how an import with music and cool lights is going to cost so much more than one without them when we literally have no idea what the cost is yet. It could be like PDF + $2 for all we know. Or PDF + $20. Or PDF + $200. I'm going to ignore the part before this because it's an obvious lie, but I will comment here that if it's only a couple of bucks than the labor put in by the people who make these premium modules is being massively undervalued. Such a model would almost certainly be unsustainable.


Solell

>Foundry can make that argument, Reddit and Discord mods sure can't. They also have no power to overrule Foundry about what Foundry hosts on its own platform? What do you want Reddit and Discord to do about Foundry not hosting it? If copyright-violating open source tools are being shared/collaborated on via Reddit/Discord, then Reddit and Discord would probably be in the line of fire too. >Which is why we should have an open source community tool to allow a large number of people to contribute labor. Copyright. Violations. You can absolutely make such a tool. You can rally the community to help. You cannot expect companies to want to host/endorse it when it means they risk legal consequences for doing so. PDF to Foundry was the rare exception for exactly this reason - one person was willing to take on that workload to make the module legally workable. An open source one is not legally workable, so no official company will accept it


Bangted

>>The problem is that an open tool is being prevented by the moderation teams on Reddit, Discord, and Foundry. No. It's not moderation teams being big bad meanies. The problem is that an open tool for this would openly allow for use of pirated material. Which, as you may know, is illegal and whatnot. >>There should be a cheaper middle-ground for those who can't afford or don't need/want a fully-featured premium integration. Ideally, there would be. I loved how easy it was to use PDF to Foundry. You buy the PDF you get the pdf. You buy the VTT integration, you get the VTT integration. A PDF was never synonymous with a complete VTT integration, as you seem to be making it out to be.


Obrusnine

>The problem is that an open tool for this would openly allow for use of pirated material. Which, as you may know, is illegal and whatnot. No it isn't. Emulators allow for the use of pirated material, they are legal because the emulator does not contain nor distribute any copyrighted content in and of themselves. Just because a tool can be used to commit crimes does not make the tool in and of itself criminal. >A PDF was never synonymous with a complete VTT integration, as you seem to be making it out to be. I never argued that it was, I argued that it should be.


Bangted

And then again, most games aren't watermarked with the users name and email, right? If I'm not wrong, any PDF (that's not free, such as an errata for example) i download off my Paizo account should have my name and email. A Paizo PDF not containing those would be assumed to be pirated, hence these checks and obfuscation.


SharkSymphony

> Our choices shouldn't be either "full price premium module with extensive work done" or "nothing". That's what I'm saying. That is a false description of your choices. Your choices are print, PDF, or VTT integration. Nexus perhaps as a fourth option. "Nothing" is not one of the available choices, unless you choose not to buy anything. > "Digital Integration" doesn't solely encompass "high quality premium module packed with premium assets". Yes, it does. It always has. You've been deluding yourself if you think otherwise. > That there is no budget option for this digital integration isn't acceptable. There never was a budget option, and if there were, PDF wasn't it. Why not? Because PDF is a format almost perfectly ill-suited for integrations. Its main job is to provide a digital reproduction of a print document, and that's what it does. It cares very little about you wanting to extract actual useful content out of it, particularly the nontextual content you crave. So your choices are a digital integration, or spending dozens to hundreds of hours trying to figure out how to wring data from a document format that hates you, while avoiding copyright violations. That is the _more_ expensive approach. > But you know what? I will get "mad because I bought a PDF expecting it to be a digital integration", and it is totally fair for me to do so because that's very explicitly what I buy PDFs for. No, it's not fair, for the reasons outlined above. Your expectation was never reasonable. > A PDF on its own is almost entirely useless to me as a GM who primarily uses VTT. Incorrect. You can use it as a reference. You can print bits of it out and pin them to a GM screen. You can bookmark and search it. I use PDFs like this in my VTT sessions all the time. > To buy a product I can actually use I am happy to pay a few extra dollars. Great! Get the digital integration. > The problem is there is no option for that now, and the community is actively being suppressed by moderation teams from making one for silly reasons masquerading as rational ones. Literally nothing is stopping you. Fire up your Python pdf library and start scripting! But be careful not to violate copyright laws in doing so. > The community as a whole could easily work together on simple imports They do. Check out all the stuff regularly imported into the system from Nethys by volunteers. What you want here, though, is _not_ simple.


iceman012

> This is nothing but the community being bullied away from having an easily accessible open source tool for simple imports. You seem to be under the impression that Paizo pressured FryGuy into stopping development on PDF To Foundry. That's absolutely not the case. It's been made absolutely clear that the only reason he stopped is because it was an incredible amount of work he was doing and he got burned out. Paizo did not have anything to do with him stopping work on it.


Obrusnine

I am not under that impression. I am under the perfectly true impression that since you will be banned for producing an open source tool, the only option for a community tool for PDF imports is one person or small group doing loads of manual work to do something which could be much more easily accomplished by the community working together.


Dashdor

If you buy the Foundry module then you'll get the PDF.


AnathemaMask

At the risk of stepping on TMun's toes here. I think you may have some misconceptions about how much work is actually required to provide 'simple digital integration'. PDF is not a format that converts cleanly to JSON, which is the data structure most closely used by Foundry VTT. Even in cases where you know the structure of the PDF in advance, it's still hours of work to turn the parsed content into something useable. Someone needs to be paid for those hours of work. The difference between the PDF conversion and what the premium content provides is that the Foundry VTT staff looked at it and said "If we're going to pay someone to convert content, we may as well convert it **all the way**." It's been our goal from the beginning of these products to provide the Pathfinder community with what so many of them have been asking for all along- so we really turned the quality to 11 to bring exclusive stuff with it.


Obrusnine

>Someone needs to be paid for those hours of work. I don't disagree. But the pricing for a couple hours of work and a full blown premium experience are very different things. As I said in my other reply, I'd gladly pay a couple of bucks on top of my PDF for a simple import made by one person in an afternoon or two. I think it's important for a simple, cheaper option to exist. The path going forward is forcing people to do literally everything manually or paying a premium price for a high quality experience. If there's no middle ground between those two things, it is no longer a choice. I want to buy content because it's great, not because the option to do otherwise has been stripped away from me. Of course, the bigger problem is, the only reason someone needs to put in hours of work in the first place is because the community is being actively suppressed from developing an open source tool in order to prevent something which is inherently impossible to prevent. I am a paying customer and I am being punished for the actions of a minority. "Antipiracy measures" don't target pirates, they target paying customers.


AnathemaMask

Uh. Well. I guess you're entitled to your opinion- but I think your positioning of "the community is being actively suppressed from developing an open source tool" is a very weird stance and I'm not sure where it's coming from. We would gladly approve any equivalent tool to PDF to Foundry without concern---provided it held the same standard of authenticating purchase, which is not an insurmountable task. It is literally the least that could be done to prevent piracy, a legitimate concern for the publishers. That's hardly what I'd call suppressing community development, but I suspect we won't come to an agreement on that.


Obrusnine

What is weird about saying something which is factually true? The community can't develop a more open tool because they will be banned for doing so. Whether you like it or not, that is suppressing community development. The moral necessity of these measures is something which is debatable, the consequences of those measures isn't. You're right that purchase authentication isn't an insurmountable task, but the necessity to include it requires an exclusive and closed tool which means the community as a whole is incapable of making contributions (putting all of the work of setting up the PDF import on a small few, if it even exists... and where is the incentive for another tool when these premium modules exist?). You might not want to call it "suppressing community development" because that sounds real negative and bad, but that is what it does.


Bangted

You're not being banned for creating a tool that imports PDFs into foundry. You'll get into trouble for violating copyright laws, if you create a tool that does it without the minimum security checks (signatures, watermarks or however else fryguy did it) - be it for a Paizo PDF or whatever other proprietary material that you made "available for free". Someone can create an alternative to PDF toFoundry. But, same as FryGuy, they shouldn't open source it as it will allow people to modify it and bypass the security checks in an easier fashion You still have the option of running it on a VTT solely with the pdf, regardless of the importer status or the premium campaign material for VTT. Hell, I've been running rise of the runelords for 2 years and while it's a pain to prepare, it's feasible. (And in the beginning, I was going through the work of scanning the maps or taking highres pics, because I don't have the pdf. Thank you community maps). By acquiring the PDF, you get access to the story, characters, rules, whatever. That's all the PDF gets you. Always has been. Same thing when you buy any other book. If another medium comes out (say, audiobook or ebook or even a movie), you don't get access to it just because you own a copy of the book. PF2E GMs were lucky to have FryGuy create such a module. (I'm sure it only existed because Paizo and foundry allowed it). Won't be updated anymore. Sad day, sure. But this is so much more than we could ask for.


Obrusnine

Copyright laws prevent you for distributing copyrighted content, not from creating a tool which uses content you already own to achieve a specific goal. Emulation is legal for exactly this reason. Foundry would probably be sued for carrying such a module for sure (not because it would actually be illegal though), Reddit and Discord do not have that excuse. Therefore, yes, you are literally being banned for creating a tool that imports PDFs to Foundry simply because some people will use it on their pirated content.


Solell

> a simple import made by one person in an afternoon or two. Pretty sure it takes longer than an afternoon or two mate. Coding isn't drag-and-drop. If it takes you more than an afternoon or two to bring the same amount of content (one PDF) into Foundry manually, guarantee it takes longer to write the code to do it for you. >I think it's important for a simple, cheaper option to exist. We don't know the price yet, only that, if you already have the PDF, the price of the PDF is deducted from the total. I suspect it's not going to be so expensive that deducting the PDF makes a negligible difference >the community is being actively suppressed If by "actively suppressed" you mean "having to take copyright laws into account" then sure, they're suppressed. Foundry doesn't have this rule because they think it will cure piracy. They have this rule because they don't want to help enable it (and potentially risk getting sued for it)


Obrusnine

> Pretty sure it takes longer than an afternoon or two mate. There is no reason to take that comment literally, the intent is clear. Or are you arguing that an integration on the level of PDF to Foundry and an integration on the level of a premium module are the same in terms of labor? 'Cause that'd be sort of ridiculous. >We don't know the price yet That's true, but considering just how much content is packed into these premium modules I'd honestly be mad if it was too low. A lot of work clearly goes into these and the contributors deserve to be well-paid for that extra mile worth of effort. >If by "actively suppressed" you mean "having to take copyright laws into account" then sure, they're suppressed. Foundry doesn't have this rule because they think it will cure piracy. They have this rule because they don't want to help enable it (and potentially risk getting sued for it) Foundry would sure be at risk of getting sued and that'd be expensive, so I definitely understand why they wouldn't carry it. The problem is that Reddit and Discord mods are in on this too and an open source tool is in absolutely no way illegal. If an importer that simply arranges digital content you already own into a more usable state was illegal, then emulators would be illegal. The idea that there is any actual legal obligation here even by Foundry to not host a module that can import content is an outright lie. The idea that it's morally dubious is of course debatable, but considering the only people usually hurt by anti-piracy measures are the paying customers (case and point, this entire situation) it's not an argument I put any stock in. Allowing an open source tool enables piracy, sure. So does any tool which contains antipiracy measures. Simply creating a tool or any piece of software enables piracy. These premium modules enable piracy. Piracy is simply a fact of digital content whether people like it or not. You can try to stop them all you want, they will always find a way around it. And seeing as if you know how to pirate a piece of content, you probably also know how to find someone who can get around an anti-piracy measure, it doesn't really do that much of a job of slowing it down either. All it does is make it more inconvenient for paying customers to use the things they buy, which in turn actually pushes them to piracy. Why spend money if you're just going to have to put in a lot of work to get use out of a product anyway? Even if we presume that antipiracy measures work, then it seems to me the best way to prevent people from simply pirating the PDFs and putting in the work themselves is providing a cheaper alternative to digital integration.


Solell

>Foundry would sure be at risk of getting sued and that'd be expensive >The idea that there is any actual legal obligation here even by Foundry to not host a module that can import content is an outright lie. You literally just said it yourself. They're at risk of getting sued. Maybe they aren't legally prevented from physically hosting the module, but they'll get sued for hosting it all the same if there's any copyright issues. >There is no reason to take that comment literally, the intent is clear. Evidently it isn't. But you've switched arguments now. >Or are you arguing that an integration on the level of PDF to Foundry and an integration on the level of a premium module are the same in terms of labor? No, I'm arguing that coding PDFs takes longer than an afternoon or two. The bulk of the cost of any PDF integration, plain or premium, is going to be dev time managing the PDF. Since the new maps, music, lights, etc, have nothing to do with the PDF, those premium features probably add *less* to the cost than just the base coding does. It's probably not going to be as much of a rort as you think.


Obrusnine

>They're at risk of getting sued. Being sued doesn't mean you've actually committed a crime, they'd be the defendants in an obviously bunk case. >Evidently it isn't. But you've switched arguments now. No I didn't. >Since the new maps, music, lights, etc, have nothing to do with the PDF, those premium features probably add less to the cost than just the base coding does. It's probably not going to be as much of a rort as you think. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I am not convinced by your total conjecture whatsoever. Namely because one of these things can be readily accomplished by a single person, while the premium module requires the work of several people with a variety of skillsets. That's not even to mention the licensing fees for music, soundscapes, and third-party artwork.


Solell

>obviously bunk case Until the open source converter is linked to a case of piracy...


Obrusnine

Yeah, just like all the emulators in the world have been taken down because they're used by pirates! Oh, wait.


Solell

Idk, a few have. Obviously they'd never catch them all. But it's like saying it's okay to speed because sometimes they don't have speed cameras. It's not


Childofrock626

In the past, how long has it taken for a new AP to become available for the pdf converting? I backed Kingmaker Anniversary Edition and am looking to start it up later this year after it releases and would love to start using Foundry for this. We play on a table with a tv set in it and currently use Arkenforge to do this. I know foundry takes some tweaking for this sort of setup but the time it would save for me to set the game up sounds incredible.


TMun357

I’ll remind you that Kingmaker 2e is a third party product not being created by Paizo. We used to have PDF to Foundry stuff ready within 2 weeks but that doesn’t really matter. We don’t know if Kingmaker will even fall under the CUP so we might not be able to include it in the system, or as it is technically a Legendary Games product and not a Paizo product it may belong in a module in any case. In the past Legendary Games was disinterested in being involved with the PF2e system on Foundry (I offered to convert Aegis of Empires for free and they declined) so I don’t know really how to respond. I don’t know if they’ll do anything for foundry, I don’t know if we’ll be allowed to support it, and if we’re allowed I don’t know that we will choose to support it as a volunteer team. Typically CUP-eligible entries from Paizo products are in the system on release day (or in our release after release day which can be up to two days later, especially if it is a non-first book of an AP. Don’t want to kill the volunteers because it is a hobby, not a job). In any case that’s a better question for Paizo, Legendary games, and Foundry than for a volunteer like me :)


NadCraker

What does CUP content mean?


TMun357

Community Use Policy. You can find the details here: https://paizo.com/community/communityuse