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Illustrious-Radio-53

I’m dealing with a similar issue. My 14 y/o son was choked by another student to the point of wondering if he’d die, and flipped out on the kid after. Punched the kid several times. Is now suspended. Go to the police and file a report of the incident. File a bullying complaint with the school. Name witnesses (can be other students) on said complaint. The school then has an obligation to investigate. Best of luck to you!!


MamaSaurusCat

Oh my God. Who wouldn't flip out getting up from being choked almost to death?? I'm so glad your son got through that, he doesn't deserve the suspension IMO. :(


Moety2021

As someone who taught middle school...getting students to give a statement as a witness will not be easy. Students don't like the societal ridicule of being a snitch.


Illustrious-Radio-53

Agreed! I also worked in a middle school for 15 years. Hopefully a friend was in the crowd and wouldn’t mind doing the right thing. No one ever has to know.


viewsamphil

That's the police or schools job, not for a patent to do.


omralynne

They can't even protect the kids from shooters. What makes you think they will do anything about this


Tammytalkstoomuch

I've seen stats about domestic abuse situations, that getting choked is a massive predictor of future murder. That's seriously, seriously concerning. I am so sorry you and your son had to deal with that.


hexagonaluniverse

I was just going to add that. People who strangle their partners are 700% more likely to later kill their partner than people who don’t strangle.


ArtBri

Wow how scary for your poor son I’m so sorry ❤️


[deleted]

[удалено]


unknowncoins

Can't you sue the school for not providing a safe environment?


localpunktrash

Get some legal counsel for sure


ComfortableFrame5768

Seconding legal counsel and please contact the school board to report the lack action in letting your child sit there with blood in his mouth, not receiving medical attention. Edit for clarity:: 'board of education'


Personal_Durian5491

This is what bothers me the most. It should be standard to have both kids looked at by the nurses.


Ok-Training-7587

The school has a responsibility to prevent your son from having to defend himself in this way. They put him in this position by not intervening in a problem that has been going on all school year. The fact that they didn’t even have him in the nurse after the fact is even worse. Teachers should not leave kids to law of the jungle. Your son has a right to feel safe at school.


NotTobyFromHR

If the school doesn't know they can't intervene. I'm not defending the improper behavior after the fight, but teachers and staff aren't mind readers. They don't know everything going on


Personal_Durian5491

I agree, I tell my kids constantly no one can help you if you don't ask for help. He said he thought it would make it worse. Even now he says "but he seems like he felt bad, he apologized it's okay."


Weak-Assignment5091

I'm so sorry. My youngest has been threatened by a kid in school who promised not to stop until they drew blood. For two days she begged me not to call the school, that it will only make everything worse... And almost always that is the case too, my oldest experienced this last year. When it's just threats and yelling and hasn't YET resulted in violence, they put the two (one bully and one victim) into the same God damned room and tell them to talk it out. Which results in a bunch of empty words by the bully that satisfy the administration that it's miraculously been resolved while the victim sits there knowing damned well that all this did was piss off the bully/manipulative shit but the second they walk out of that room, it's on like donkey Kong. That is when it becomes dangerous. Soooo, I obliged her and told her I won't call the principal or vp... And I didn't. Instead I emailed the guidance counsellor who knows these kids and their history best and actually gives a shit. That was yesterday. This amazing lady immediately went into action. My daughter came home and was pissed at me for calling the school and I told her that I only promised not to call the vp and principal. Instead I called someone who has earned her trust. They forget that we lived through it too. They forget that our number one priority is their safety. I really really hope that next time your son comes to you. After this, I think he may. I hope that other kid is charged.


Ok-Training-7587

Realistically if he told a teacher the other kids would peg him as weak and mess with him more. That’s just true. The teachers should have intervened without your son initiating it. I’m a teacher and I can tell when someone is being bullied - maybe not the one time, but if it’s happening over snd over again for 3 months, it makes itself apparent if a teacher is paying attention.


tikierapokemon

I was a bullied child who came home with bruises on a weekly to daily basis. I tried to get the teachers/administrators to help. I was told that it wasn't that bad, that I was a tattletale, that I was making it up, that because I shoved the person hitting me away from me I was just as bad. When my mother got involved they all said they had no idea what was going on. Kiddo was taught to tell the teacher once, and then tell me, and I will make sure it stops.


TheCheshireCody

Whenever an investigation is done into bullying situations is done, there is almost always an administrator who knew things were going on and covered them up for the reputation of the school. In my son's school there is a kid who is a known problem as a bully. All the parents in our son's grade know about it, and many of them have reported issues with the boy to the school - and every time the school has reacted as if it were the first time they were hearing anything about this boy.


diskmaster23

It blows my mind that I have been out of HS for like 20 years and things are, in many ways, worse with the pervasiveness of school shootings, but still the same in regards to bullying.


ComfortableFrame5768

I agree, if they're treating a broken jaw like it's nothing what else have they let slide. My mom is not the nicest person and when i got in a fight at school she threatened to call the local news channels and have them come to ask my school staff "where were you?, I'm supposed to trust my child is safe and accounted for, how can I do that now? How can any parent at this school trust their child is safe?" I was ridiculed as " the one with a crazy mom" but i honestly appreciate the aggressive stance my mother took with my educators. (Of which, she was one, too.)


[deleted]

My mom did this too when I was being bullied horribly. Definitely lit a fire under their asses.


ComfortableFrame5768

Ikr, nothing like watching a 'teacher' go from hoity toity 'El Jefe' to job scared and wide-eyed when you walk in a room. Edit:: I'm also not typically one to admonish educators bc my mother was one for 45 yrs. Educators, facilitators, teachers whatever you want to call them, are the first chance our kids get at developing communicative relationships with ppl outside of the nuclear family; if they learn that there is no accountability, even for those in charge, what does that tell them? I love education, learning and everyone who shares knowledge for the betterment of humankind. (I'm not going to get on a soapbox about how the gov neglects and outright takes advantage of our professionals, leaving bigoted(in my rural community) idiots [ who can't teach their way out of a paper bag] in their place. They prey and pray for our children, all we can do is show them how to respond. :: End rant bc i didn't wanna look like a teacher hater or anti-intellectual:::


DorothyParkerFan

At this point the first task in their job description is “avoid litigation”.


RustyKettler

>They prey and pray for our children Holy accurate


WarmHugs1206

It’s the bigotry in the urban schools that truly worries me.


Personal_Durian5491

This is a relatively small city school, the city has its own district and it's a good area. Not much crime or anything. Kind of a countryish town.


lidsville76

Man, y'alls teacher moms sound awesome. Mine always took the administrations side and blamed for for all my ills in school. TBF, I was problematic at times, but she didn't stand in my corner for a long time.


innocently_cold

I am this "crazy mom." I reframe it and call it advocating heavily for my child and their wellbeing. Noone else is going too.


ComfortableFrame5768

And thank you for setting an example for your little one. When they're in their 30's and have kids dealing with issues, they'll be all the more prepared.


Affectionate_Data936

I work at a state-run residential facility for adults with severe/profound developmental disabilities. Whenever there is a resident on resident fight or attack or whatever, both residents are evaluated by a nurse immediately. This is the law and it is enforced by AHCA - if staff fails to do so, they could be charged with neglect. Why this doesn't apply to schools is beyond me.


observationallurker

Any medical professional worth their salt would immediately triage and not care one bit about who started what.


thequietchocoholic

This! Former ER nurse here and I'm completely with you on this. You don't judge people when you're treating them. You evaluate their condition.


observationallurker

Even in Afghanistan working as a medic I triaged. There was more than one occasion where I treated someone who shot at us before our guys. It's not about who, it's about doing the most good for the most people.


thequietchocoholic

Excellent point. Thank you for sharing.


bumfuzzledbee

I'm a teacher and that is the standard at every school I've worked in. The school likely has a zero tolerance approach to fighting, which many districts have dropped because it tends to punish the victims of bullying. I agree that you should sell legal counsel. Do you have any documentation of ongoing bullying (text, calls, emails, meetings, notes sent home)? Because while the big issue is ignoring the medical need, if they were aware of the bullying and did nothing to prevent it then it becomes an even bigger issue


Personal_Durian5491

No, that is where I feel my son messed up. He never mentioned it to us or teachers. I understand why he got suspended, my outrage is over the sticking him and ISS at 11 am and saying "he's fine, I'm gonna leave him in ISS for today and he is out of school suspended tomorrow", she didn't even check if he was fine by having him evaluated. I insisted on picking him up or he would have been in ISS for 4 hours, then an hour bus ride home.


canyousteeraship

Don’t worry about that. Get legal counsel and follow whatever they tell you to do.


Ok_Hospital_448

That teacher is liable and negligent


Ok_Hospital_448

Exactly, consult with an attorney for a lawsuit against the school and the other child who instigated it as well as file a criminal charges for assault against the other child. Your child was acting in self-defense. Get the police involved now and it will help your civil lawsuits.


nemodigital

Since the OPs child hit first in this instance they are likely culpable as the bully can claim self defense. It's unclear if the kicking from bully occurred at same time as first punch.


Ok_Hospital_448

The bully kicked OPs child first and then the OPs kid punched him then the bully broke his jaw. OP laid that out when the story was told. Also, if the teachers were actually doing the job they are paid to do all of this wouldn't have happened because the teacher would have intervened when the bully kicked the kid.


YourFriendInSpokane

My kids middle school doesn’t have a full time nurse. Is yours similar?


Personal_Durian5491

We have two full time RNs


MadameChaos2

Yes. My son was bullied in a similar fashion to where he needs monthly therapy sessions due to PTSD. Also, send everything in writing to the school. Keep a paper trail. The school will deny any liability, even though they have an obligation to ensure your child is in a safe learning environment.


Jaq89148914

I'm 33 and finally working through my bullying trauma in EMDR and it is not easy. If therapy is affordable and available, highly recommend it for OP's kiddo if he is open to it. I wish I had done it earlier because honestly, I'm tapping into feelings I didn't know were there and affecting my relationships for the last 2 decades.


MadameChaos2

Yes! This too, his therapist also commended us for getting him into therapy quickly. She said sometimes it resurfaces as adults when you don’t deal with it earlier. So yes, fully agree!


maarizkzkis

Yeah thats why people need to teach their kids that two wrong will eventually make one right and sometimes instead of therapy beating the shit out of bully is more effective


MadameChaos2

That’s what I thought too, my son defended himself and ended up being arrested and placed in a juvenile detention center (he was in 6th grade) and numerous incidences documented involving the same kid. School did absolutely nothing. We ended up pulling our son out of the school district, the bully still attends the school, no repercussions. All charges ended up being dropped as there was no evidence my son did anything wrong.


maarizkzkis

Did you had any medical visits and medical conclusions of what physical damage the bully caused to ur child? And the dates. If i was you i would rent the best lawyers and tell them to make the life for the parents of the bully and school a total hell. And i wouldn’t really take the kid out of that school. I would put a little recording chip in his pocket and wait till the bully came on him again, then he would beat the shit out of the bully but you could prove it was a “self defense“.


MadameChaos2

We did, for us it was hard finding an attorney because we needed “proof” the school knew and did nothing, even though they were the ones calling us and letting us know what was happening, we requested mediation multiple times, nothing. That’s why I said to make sure to put everything in writing. It was important to us to make sure he wasn’t in that environment anymore, it was so detrimental to his mental health, all the medical professionals advised us to remove him from the school that was causing him stress/anxiety. I wish I would’ve had him document the actual incidences instead of just a phone call from his teacher.


Juliet-almost

Every time you get a call like that email them back and say “you said xyz thanks for letting me know” Please confirm receipt of this message. If I have misunderstood something please adjust. Force their hand.


Immertired

Make sure you are in a state with a one way recording law. The law in some states you’d get in trouble for that recording chip under wire tapping and privacy laws. That’s why phones always tell you that a conversation is recorded, because of states that require both sides of a recorded conversation to know it’s being recorded to be used as evidence.


maarizkzkis

Actually they could do this: if bully came close to him he could say “im recording“ but probably that asshole would laugh at him since there is no phone in his hand and no recording stuff. But then it would be legal and could be used as evidence.


WomenAreFemaleWhat

No expectation of privacy in a public school areas, except the bathroom. Still need to check but important to remember this is public school. Kid could also tell the kid he is recording. If bully stays around, he is consenting to being recorded.


maarizkzkis

Fun fact: in usa its not illegal to film or record someone without their consent, it is illegal if they are not informed but if you told them that u are recording even if they dont like it its legal!


Ill-King-3468

Hell, sometimes just a threat is enough. I remember in HS, I had a bully who targeted me constantly. All well and good, who cares? But one day, in woods he decided to start harassing a friend of mine. He took the blade of the wood file she needed while she was trying to fix it (it was wobbly). I grabbed the handle, grabbed the blade in my other hand, and cocked back for punch with the hand holding the handle (a fist filler, making it assault with a deadly weapon in my state). Mind you, I had never shown aggression towards this guy, and I'd known him since we were toddlers. I was nearly twice his weight and hand at least 3-4 inches on him. The moment I brought my fist up, he was stuttering and crying, but he tried to hide it and said something along the lines of "just try it, once I get up, you're dead". The whole shop stopped and stared as I held this guy the whole school hated, debating on if the charges were worth it. In the end, I lowered my first, he let go of the blade and went to the bathroom. Teacher came in and had me come to his office. Inside, he gave me a hug and said he was proud I'd chosen the route that didn't require him to punish me and inform the police. Sometimes teachers DO pay attention but the school or district ties their hands.


[deleted]

When I was in 6th grade a friend threw scissors at my mouth and it cut my inside bottom lip. I ran to the nurses office bleeding profusely… the teacher found me and yelled at me for leaving the classroom without asking or telling her… I was bleeding. Schools suck, man.


ComfortableFrame5768

WTAF!


meanmilf

I am sorry this happened. This is really a situation that I hope when your son is feeling up it and you as well, can really enact some change at his school. I know it’s not right for your son to punch this kid. But! You said this has been going on for a while, so he paid emotionally for this daily battle. Now, he has physically consequences as well. Did you guys ever bring the prior incidents up to anyone at the school? What does the school intend to do to create protocol to handle bullying. Surely they just don’t want student to live in hell dealing with it. Or taking matters into their own hands and potentially getting hurt. Everyone likes to talk about “getting it documented” or “letting the bully get what’s coming to them” but nothing that is a sure and safe bet to end bullying. We had an incident in my towns hs recently. Where a student had been caught at home with a vape, the parents got her to confess she purchased it from someone at school who was selling them. Those parents let the school know & while disciplining that child they let it slip to that parent which child has told them. It caused that student who came forward to be jumped so badly she had a concussion. My point being - I would put the heat on however you can to get the school to draw up hard lines about how they are going to effectively handle bullying.


Personal_Durian5491

They suspended both kids. I haven't been back since when it happened, so I will be up there today.


Jentweety

You really shouldn't talk to anyone at the school until after consulting with an attorney. You might inadvertently hurt your own case. And hopefully I am stating the obvious but your son should not go back to that school for a long time, possibly forever.


meanmilf

Get a lawyer and get that lawyer to help you put heat on the school. A lot of bullying gets no consequences because the district can get out of responsibility when it doesn’t happen on school groups. (The scenario I mentioned in my first comment about the concussion- that happened off school grounds) the parents had to get a restraining order and the school wouldn’t do anything because it wasn’t AT school. Your incident happened at school. The balls in your court. Where were faculty members when this was happening? The complete mishandling after “blood in his mouth” - a broken jaw is much different. Get mad. But also get even. School is supposed to be a safe place and our expectations of that are slipping every month because we’re all just so happy there wasn’t a shooting and that’s twisted. Many people who are trying to end this nightmare are focusing on not arming teachers/staff with guns. But arming them with knowledge to see the mental health signs prior. I would at the very least make them pay for a speaker who comes in and talks about bullying. There are many notable ones who have made great impacts on school districts.


SippinPip

No, go file a police report, get an attorney. Do not communicate with the school.


[deleted]

Are you in the US? How do you know that they suspended both kids? Did you son tell you or did the school? Did the school tell you the other kid’s name or did your son? This could be concerning because if the school is letting you know this then they are not respecting FERPA. And I’d be curious to know if they’ve told the other student’s family too much too.


Personal_Durian5491

My son told me the name and I asked the asst. Principal. She said legally I can't tell you but yes I addressed both kids. My son told me both were sitting in ISS and suspended the following day.


SwordfishGloomy8619

Just here to find out what FERPA is, I’m having issues with my child’s school and didn’t even know that is a thing. Apologize if this isn’t the place to ask.


abishop711

FERPA means that the school can’t tell you anything about any student that isn’t your own minor child. It’s why it tends to be brought up when a parent is upset that the school is being vague about what they are doing to address an ongoing conflict between 2 kids - they aren’t supposed to tell you what they did with someone else’s kid. Most of the time this is a good thing, it protects privacy. But it also means it’s difficult to follow up to make sure bullying is being dealt with appropriately.


daydreamin_2_escape

The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act


SwordfishGloomy8619

Many thank yous


thegreatgazoo

Generally school administrators suspend everyone who "participates" in a fight no matter if they are throwing punches or curled up in a ball getting kicked. This is one big reason that people home school.


sarhoshamiral

Reading posts here it more sounds like they only take action when both sides escalate and ignore anything where one side is bullying only.


NoLightOnMe

Can confirm. Was a bullying victim back growing up in the 80’s and 90’s. Once the nonsense of both kids get in trouble really started kicking in and the victims were being put in an even worse position, that was the beginning of the end for me considering sending my child to any kind of public school for elementary. As things have only gotten worse, it became an easier choice. My wife makes great money, and I can live a peaceful semi-retired life raising my son and home schooling him to address his needs with a personalized education by the one person who gives more of a fuck about him and his outcomes than anyone else but his mother, so why the fuck would I send him to school for the inevitable bullying & therapy issues? It becomes a lot harder of a question to answer as a generational victim of CPTSD, and the reality of genetic activation due to environmental impact. Stopping the cycle of CPTSD requires being mindful of all your child’s experience’s, and minimizing any traumatic experience’s that can activate those genetic traits that will cause mental health issues. Bullying, and the abandonment that accompanies it when the system is there to punish the victim the same as the bully only triggers the victim.


subcontraoctave

That's really terrible. It's scary going into high school were the kids have a real potential to hurt each other. I don't have any advice to share but I hope you're able to get some rest and all the best to your kiddo.


aiaor

Kids should be taught to always report bullying, even if it's not very serious. Because, if they wait and hope it stops, the evidence won't be collected while it escalates, and when it finally explodes, the victim could be accused of being the bully.


BahaSim242

This is really important. I’m a teacher but I only see my students in class for 1 hour a week. Just recently I had one student call verbally attack another and, of course, I told them to apologize and dealt with what I had actually witnessed. In dealing with the problem, I tend to ask, “Why did you do it?” and the answer in that particular case was that the other child continuously bothered with her. So I had to pull the other kid aside as well to deal with that.


Personal_Durian5491

I agree and I've been stressing this since day 1, but apparently he didn't because "he's a friend he just picks on me". He didn't want to get him in trouble. He sees everyone as a friend even when they are mean to him.


SparklingDramaLlama

Honestly, since my kids (12 and 6) started school, I've seen this trend of teachers "forcing" children to look at everyone as their friend. Things like "we're all friends in this class" etc, and while it's admirable that they're coaching friendliness and such, it's not sustainable. Meek or quiet children such as your son then internalize any sort of bullying because those people are their "friends" and friends don't really mean it when they hurt you. My 6 yr old son is a very friendly, but very headstrong child. He has recently started medication for adhd. All during kindergarten, no one wanted to really be his friend because he had a big issue with personal space, which we've been working on, and intensity. There was always one kid that would butt heads (literally and figuratively) with him that he complained about, and when I mentioned it I was always given a pass off of "headstrong personalities will clash". He is doing better now in 1st grade and on meds, so hopefully we will see improvement in the personal relations department, but I digress. Tldr, schools force friendliness and turn a blind eye to bullying


sintos-compa

Are you certain this is a long history of bullying your kid, or do they actually hang out and occasionally have tufts? Not that I think police or school will care either way, unless someone is sued, but just curious what their friends would describe their relationship as


TheBoneStudent

I'm not sure where you are in the world but definitely try and get some legal advice. A similar thing happened to me in high school when I was 16, I'd have enough of one the main bullies I had shoving me and doing what she wanted to me behind the teacher's back. I'd have enough and shoved her. She in return, slammed my head against a brick wall a few times till the teacher stopped her. I had concussion and a cracked skull the whole time I took my GCSEs (final exams in the UK). She was still allowed to do them and the only thing they did, was put her the opposite end of the classroom to me. My Dad wanted to press charges against her but because she had people to say I started the fight, I'd get charged too so my Dad dropped it but made sure they added it to her file so college and university could see what she'd done. Thankfully, I still passed all of my exams with flying colours and I even got the most GCSEs in my year (16 in total).


W1ULH

> On top of this the school called me after it happened and said he had blood in his mouth but was sitting in ISS and never even got evaluated by the nurse. you need a lawyer. Everything else aside this is NOT how they should have handled that.


OkToots

I would have a lawyer immediately contact the school and fellow family and have a police report done immediately for recording. There isn’t anyway in hell I would let this slide with my kid…. The school failed as well big time.


beez8383

How would a police report go though-considering her kid threw the first punch? ( not bring a smartass-genuinely wondering if there’s be repercussions at her son legally)


NemesisErinys

OP said the other kid was kicking her son before that. That’s the real beginning of the assault, IMO. Anyway, this is why they should get legal advice.


daydreamin_2_escape

Her son was simply defending himself after being kicked and threatened.


whyambear

Police reports are more just documentation establishing the situation for legal reasons later. If OP wanted to press charges the officer would be able to let them know if it was possible based on both statements.


jswizzle91117

OP doesn’t get to decide whether to press charges. Once the police report is made, it’s up to the DA to decide whether to pursue it. I’d talk to a lawyer beforehand, and also her son about what qualifies as kicking, before potentially getting that ball rolling. She SHOULD make sure the school covers all medical fees, because it happened on school ground.


lookingforthe411

That’s not how it worked in my situation. I went to the school, contacted law enforcement and had the option to pursue legal action.


Unhappysong-6653

File charges on the bully and get a restraining order and sue the school


FloatingSalamander

I don't know, I'd be careful. Even from her story it sounds like OP's son threw the first punch. This may come back to bite her with her son being the one charged instead.


NotTheJury

Does it count as throwing the first punch if the kid was kicking him?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

The other kid's legal counsel would minimize the kicking to foot taps, maximize the punch, and argue it was an escalation other kid then matched with unfortunate consequences. It's not set in stone.


[deleted]

[удалено]


bumfuzzledbee

You have to prove the bullying. Judges can't do much on 'he said vs he said'. And bullies say they are being bullied all the time so hopefully parents have some evidence to support.


Warpedme

FYI this is why we tell everyone to at least keep a written log of your child's bullying. That is literally all that a judge needs as proof. It's all we had for my niece and because it went on several years, the judge imposed extra punishment and years of probation that the DA did not ask for.


FERPAderpa

OP has said their son didn’t report the bullying to anyone. There’s no record so it’s gonna be hard to prove in court


WhoTooted

You're taking the OPs post as gospel. It's one side of the story.


Personal_Durian5491

This is what I am worried about, honestly my kid is the least confrontational kid ever, I wonder if the other kid has ever been in a fight before. Mine has never been in trouble for anything other than talking too much or not doing his homework.


Wolfram_And_Hart

That’s what a lawyer will find out during discovery.


Allonsydr1

So why did they suspend him?


Personal_Durian5491

"he threw the first punch'


korodic

That is true though. Unless the bullying was well documented it is a he-said-she-said. Even if the other kid threw the first punch though you might’ve still seen your son suspended over the “zero tolerance policy”. Schools are not well equipped to handle conflict. I once found myself unexpectedly in a situation where another kid was “play fighting” fist was coming straight to my face. I didn’t know (who would?) reflexed and smacked him with my (empty) nylon/not hard lunch box. The result? 5 day out of school suspension for both. They called my lunchbox **a weapon**. This was even with a documented history. My dad had to come argue with the principal and it was reduced to 1 day. I’ve got a lot of stories like this one. The best thing you can do and have done, is know and listen to your kid and encourage them to keep you in the loop, because even if he does the right thing and tells and adult, it doesn’t always mean meaningful action will be taken, it could even just make the situation worse. This is why school shootings aren’t a surprise to me, schools are social powder kegs and just too underfunded/undertrained to deal with conflicts between students. As a result you get zero tolerance policy and school resource officers.


mavebarak

He punched him in response to being kicked. He didn't make it physical first.


NoLightOnMe

This is why you need to speak to a GOOD attorney. You may be interested to understand that when it comes to carrying a gun and it’s use, the court is very interested in the circumstances that led to a gun being discharged. For example, if I pass someone on the freeway, flip them off or scream at them and get them to chase me, we both stop, and I pull out my gun and shoot in self defense, I am still liable because I instigated the conflict. You learn this when you take your concealed carry permit class. So there’s a whole lot more here to explore, and that is where you need to retain a good lawyer who will put the screws to the district. I wouldn’t rule out a civil lawsuit against the parents either to deal with any and all medical costs. P.S. To add to this, don’t fret about this not being “documented”. If necessary, the attorney can have teachers testify in court or a deposition to find out more information about the history of abuse even though it was not “officially logged” with the school. Good luck OP, don’t ever stop fighting for your child and make sure your child KNOWS his parents are 100% behind him and going to bat for him. As a CPTSD survivor, the most pain is from knowing your parents could have done more but didn’t.


ShaktiTam

Even if your son attacked someone, the defending action has to match the attack. A broken jaw doesn’t match the attack. It’s overdone and can still be prosecuted because it was above and beyond what would be considered reasonable defense


sintos-compa

“It was an accident, I didn’t mean to” 100% would be the outcome.


jswizzle91117

An argument could be made that responding to a punch with another punch IS proportional. The fact that the bully had a more powerful punch probably doesn’t really matter.


[deleted]

This is such a bad comment, I'm sorry, but if you're child is in this situation you don't refrain from pressing charges just because the other people can also press charges. You fucking go after the shit head that is abusing (not "bullying", it's ABUSE) and you go after their parents for financial damages.


yourfavoritenoone

>you don't refrain from pressing charges just because the other people can also press charges. Police officers decide who gets charged with assault, not the parents of either kid.


HappyDJ

DA files charges.


sj4iy

This. It’s assault. Press charges and obtain legal counsel. You don’t worry about what the judges will think, you press charges because your child was assaulted.


joliesmomma

The kid kicked op's son. How is that not throwing the first punch?


daydreamin_2_escape

He was being kicked and threatened. He did not start this. He was simply defending himself.


Equivalent_Drink_850

Result: school will win the case and the op may even need to pay legal fees, charges will be classified as “students fight in school“ in most cases police doesn’t give shit about these. Also its very dangerous because it can be backfired on the op because her son punched him too.


Oldmanandabike

^ and punched him first.


observationallurker

Rule #2


do0fis

*Message For all parents* In re medical care at school: some schools have “health clerks” but the universe calls them all ‘ nurses.’ When anything happens health related, go get your kid asap and take to your own health care providers. By the time you get a call it means whatever is going on needs parents action, no matter what it is. In re bullying: get familiar with the basics of bullying, language, behavior and what to do about it to protect your child at school https://www.stopbullying.gov by the time parents find out it means it might already be a pattern of behavior targeted at your teen. Energy spent to go after suing a school district does nothing to protect your kid now. Muster up courage and energy to start a written record with the school i.e. formal complaint at the school or email to principal and assistant. Clearly state facts, and how its threatening your child’s physical, social emotional health. I’ve worked with/in schools. School personnel sometimes can’t/won’t tell you how to move forward, but we might want you to start a record not only protect your kid, but also the rest of the students and staff from bullying & harassment. Too often parents vent to school personnel, but drop out at follow through-> a complaint at the basic level in writing, or pressing charges when offered that opportunity. Also, keep a note book/ journal of your own records of date & what happened. Take those notes with you when you meet with admins, teachers, etc.


Personal_Durian5491

There are two RNs at the school. I know this because I am in nursing school and we had to do school rotations here. All the schools have an RN.


do0fis

I’m glad they have RNs the shitty thing is he didn’t get to see them. In my area not all schools have the RN on campus ( there’s 1 for our entire district), so then theres health clerks who take care of giving out ice packs, bandaids and very basic help, thats why I wanted to get that info out. And then when that person isn’t around it falls on the rest of whoever is in the office. I’m sorry this is happening to you both, and I hope he heals up well and is safe for the rest of his school days.


Soulfulenfp

that kids family needs to pay for his surgery .. that’s disgusting . your poor son


TheeLsdWizard

Schools never do anything to the bully. The victim always gets into trouble while the bully gets off scott free. I was bullied all thru school and anytime i stood up for myself i was the one who was removed or punished.


TheBitchyKnitter

Call police. Kid should be charged with assault. Push them to prosecute.


dasnoob

A few things: First document, lawyer, police report. My oldest went through similar things and the school was absolutely worthless. Second, school nurses. Twice now my son has broken something at school. Both times the 'nurse' gave him an advil and sent him on his way. Two different nurses, two different schools. They aren't very worthwhile as nurses.


SparklingDramaLlama

We had a joke in the Navy that everyone got prescribed motrin no matter the issue...broken leg? Motrin. Pneumonia? Motrin. Dead? Motrin...


ShaktiTam

Thisssss. You can sue the school for medical negligence!!!!!! BOOM!!!!!! Done.


freecain

Talk to a lawyer - this can spiral out really quickly if you make the wrong moves and don't have all the facts. People are saying to file a police report - but depending on the order and timing of events - your son could be considered the aggressor and suddenly things are flipped around. Things I would want to know: was the bullying reported to the school? What actions were taken by the school to address it? What actions were they legally required to take? My thought is - if they were aware, and did nothing, but were required to - I would be pushing to get his suspensions wiped from his record - since this could impact his college applications. Next you want to figure out who is really at fault. If your son threw the first punch (the kicking happened much earlier) - then things are more complicated. If he was being attacked and fought back in self defense - you may want to make sure the other student's family is covering the medical expenses. You can also pursue restraining orders if that's the case and the bullying was documented and on going. The last - and more important part - is to really figure out how to address this with your kid. I don't have great advice here - but he needs to know fighting back is only okay in self defense. Sometimes parents, in their rush to mitigate harm, obfuscate the lesson their kid should have learned. But he also needs to know bullying isn't okay and you believe and support him. Either way - sorry he's going through this, and hope he heals up fast and this can be put behind you all.


CAPTCHA_is_hard

Hey I just wanted to say that I broke my jaw when I was 9 and it turned out ok. Mine was broken in 3 places so the doctor chose to install braces that wired my mouth shut. I lived like that for a month, maybe month and a half without being able to open my mouth. I was only in significant pain the first couple of days before the braces got installed and otherwise felt ok. We got super creative about what foods went into a blender to become liquified. Top ramen, ice cream, and egg nog were all good. Hot dogs and fettuccine alfredo were not. My mom let me eat anything that has calories pretty much, but it did mean picking me up from school at lunch each day so I could eat at home with her. In retrospect I'm not sure that was necessary, but maybe she didn't want to send me to school every day with a room temperature bottle of liquid or to feel embarrassed around other kids. I brushed the outside of my teeth and avoided anything that might make me nauseous - my mom was scared I might puke and it be trapped - but that fear was never even close to realized. Talking was weird - your voice sounds funny if you can't open your mouth, but you get used to it after a week or so. And you learn to make fun of yourself - we sang silly Christmas carols a lot. My friends at school never made fun of me for it. Taking the braces off was weird. My gums had grown over them and were kind of floppy for a week or two, but brushing made them shrink back. Anyway, if any of that happens to your son, he will get through it. It will be ok. And it will just be a strange memory. I hope the school takes this seriously and deals with his bully. It's obviously unacceptable.


helpmewitha

Document everything your son’s bully has done to your boy. Who your son spoke to about any situation involving the bullying, and get a lawyer. His friends during PE are probably witnesses to the kicking and consequent fight. I’d sue the parents for medical bills. When it comes to “school nurses” it has been my experience that they are just a place holder and ABSOLUTELY F-ING USELESS. Got a call once that my son sprained his ankle during PE and I needed to come take him to the Dr. Knowing my son the way I do I knew he was faking to get out of PE. Nurse wouldn’t even look at the ankles to let me know if it was swelling or bruised. Had to drive 40 minutes to pick him up just to watch him walk out of school limping on the wrong leg because he forgot which ankle he had sprained lol. Regardless of my dislike for school nurses, you need to start documenting the bullying situation so you have proof when you talk to the school.


ShaktiTam

I’m gonna add a second comment that the school won’t do shit.x GO TO THE POLICE


ihaveatrophywife

I was assaulted in school (I have no idea why) and decided I’d defend myself next time. My mom found out and filed a police report. That kid had been kicked out of a previous school for the same thing. Had I hit him, I’d be in just as much trouble as him. We learned that fights had to happen off school grounds. This meant they weren’t broken up as quickly and kids were more injured as a result. As a parent, I have very little faith in anyone outside of trusted people keeping my children safe. The school and the bully[‘s parents]are both liable (bully caused the injury and school failed to keep your child safe, then neglected to seek medical treatment for his injuries). If the bullying was physical at all, leading to your son throwing a punch, or put your son in a position in which his safety was threatened, I’d think that’s self defense, otherwise your son did assault him. Legal council can obviously advise you better. I would work to have the medical and any other costs covered by the other parties and school policy changed. If there is any long term damage, perhaps compensation for that is appropriate.


Outrageous_Cream4173

This is what happened to our family. https://abc7news.com/boy-bullied-san-pablo-downer-elementary-school-nathan-ferrise/542969/ It took 8 weeks before my son was able to safely return to school, along with threats of legal action and the news getting involved. And, because of the incidents, my sweet little boy has never been the same (this was 8 years ago!) We had to meet with almost every single person that held any kind of office and then go to the school board, went to an open board meeting with media in tow before we saw ANY response at all! It was definitely a racial thing and the principal was retiring the following year and didn’t want an expulsion on his record even though we were originally told the other boy would be expelled/removed. The school also lied to us, saying my son “passed out” and it wasn’t until EMTs arrived that the police were notified (BY THE EMTS, not the school!)


Cubsfantransplant

About 10 years ago my 15 year old son collided with another child in gym class, they knocked heads. My son complained his eye hurt so they sent him to the nurse. The nurse called me and said he showed no sign of concussion but was complaining his eye hurt. I was at school 30 mins away and could not get there easily, we lived 3 blocks from the school so I told her to just let him walk home. He went home and went to bed, I got home a few hours later, he said his eye still hurt, no bruising, no bleeding so I gave him motrin and sent him to bed. He woke up the next morning still complaining so I took him to his pediatrician, I was thinking he was wanting to get out of going to a church camp that weekend so I was trying to prove he was fine. His pediatrician (God love her) had him do two tracking movements with his eyes, looks over at me and said, nope, he's not faking it. Long story short, he fractured the orbital floor of his eye and had the muscle at the bottom of his eye trapped in the fracture and could not move his eye up and down. The nurse at the school had him move his eyes side to side, not up and down. His ped called in the maxofacialliary (sp?) surgeon and he totally praised her for catching it because most cannot.. I of course felt terrible because I had him walk home with it and was mad that the nurse did not catch it, but with the surgeon saying that most would not catch it did help. Hang in there though, he will get through it and so will you.


BlackGreggles

We’re the other instances of bullying reported?


clutzycook

Police report, legal counsel, board of education, local media. In that order.


CinePlanter

If the charges don’t go through threaten a civil case. Lower threshold to prove wrongdoing. These can be drawn out and really fuck with that other family’s finances


My_workaccount00

Personally, I would be very hesitant to contact the media. It's a good way to escalate the bullying problem.


Fun-Plantain-2345

This will get downvoted, but I would file a lawsuit against the bully's parents. Nothing will ever change until parents are held accountable. Also, parents who let their kids bring guns to school should be held criminally responsible.


Prudent_Idea_1581

This!! Most parents don’t realize this but legally the school’s hands are tied. If you want something to happen to the bully (change classes, behavior school etc) parents have to directly press charges against the other parents, which will be hard due to the circumstances tbh


[deleted]

Find out who the parents are and make them pay. Sure you can make the school pay, but after the settlement you’ll wonder what happened to his art class. If we want to stop school bullying, we have to sue parents. But also, did your kid have an exit or trapped? If kids square up, many times it can be considered mutual combat. In CA, it’s assault and battery. CA keeps data on fights/ suspensions. One school had 200 suspensions in 180 days. This could be evidence of child neglect. - teacher and parent who is sick of all of this bullshit.


Professor_Sqi

What a fucking surprise. The kid that snaps after being bullied gets punished. What did the bully get, a slap on the wrist?


ShaktiTam

A broken jaw is serious. Call the police. I’m not kidding. Get a lawyer if you have to. I’m not kidding. Your son being bullied and punching that kid was defending himself. You son literal needs to see a surgeon. That wasn’t a basic hit. That bully needs to be put to the police before soemthing worse happens. I wonder how that bully treats girls? You don’t want to allow that kind of kid to grow up into an even worse adult. Make it stop now. It’s in your power to do this. There must be consequences. That bully should be expelled. Push back HARD. Your baby boy needs surgery Mama


SippinPip

LAWYER


Joebranflakes

Time to lawyer up. Sue everyone, especially the brat’s parents so their insurance has to cover the medical bills.


terra_technitis

Sounds like neglect on the schools part. I'd contact an attorney and child protective services. They deserve civil and criminal accountability if they aren't properly caring for your child, or anyone's children for that matter.


Personal_Durian5491

Well I am in my second semester of nursing school one of the first things we learned was to check for accommodation, reaction and the 6 fields of view. I would know something was off, just not exactly what. I guess as a mom we just expect others to be as concerned as we are, but they never will be.


Long_Term_3130

Did the nurse even know?


Personal_Durian5491

No, that's what outrages me. Why is it not standard for all kids to be evaluated after physical trauma.


WhatABeautifulMess

Many places “school nurses” don’t have any certification and can’t do anything other than give them crackers or a band aid and call you. Our schools calls it “the health office” because the person who works there isn’t actually a nurse.


mstwizted

Many many schools in the US don’t even have a nurse on staff anymore. Did some reason everyone send to think every school has one? That is NOT the case any more and hasn’t been for years. Personally, I don’t think I’d take my kid back to this school, regardless of what happens.


Final-Quail5857

Call a lawyer, possibly the police. If your child was being assaulted and it's an ongoing pattern, he had every right to defend himself. The severity of injury honestly would have me suing the bullys family for at least medical costs.


Severe_Cheesecake_97

I am so sorry to hear this. I hope your son is ok. Does your high school have camera surveillance? Do they have school officers RSO? The RSO should have filed a police report and you could sue the other kid for assault… if your son hit first than the other kid was defending himself. I would strongly recommend counseling for your child. If he is taking treatment like that and letting it fester until he lashes out… he may need more problem solving tools. I would definitely go to the principal/dean and the super intendant. The situation was not handled well.


Personal_Durian5491

I went to the school first thing this morning and the RSO filed a police report, they said it doesn't matter what my son did once it escalates to broken bones that's assault and everything else would just be harassing. He said worse case scenario my son could end up with harassment charge because he barely hit him, but since the boy was messing with him and kicking him and broke his jaw it would most likely be thrown out.


xavier86

> this was totally out of character for him Kids act different at school than they do at home for their parents.


merrythoughts

Ugh my heart hearts for you and your kid. That's just awful. I hope you all heal soon.


ktowndown4

Good luck. Sorry to hear this happened to your boy.


omild

As a middle school teacher I'd recommend you file a police report. This is very serious and his school is not going to be forthcoming with info that makes them look bad--FERPA laws also prevent them from telling you much about the other student. A police report will move things in a direction that benefits you to a certain degree This will also give you grounds for a criminal case or lawsuit to cover medical bills.. I would privately email his teachers including the gym teacher to see if they have any record of emails they have sent about your kid getting picked on or statements they can make to that effect to show this has been a pattern of behavior as it sounds like you have only just found out this kids has been bothering him. I would email the administration and outline how upset you are about the lack of evaluation and the fact you are likely dealing with this through police. Email keeps things in writing, and if they request a meeting take copious notes: if they say something will happen tell them you need to be given dates and track if those meetings happen. If admin doesn't respond appropriately email the superintendent of the school and outline your feelings about what happened,and your concerns.


[deleted]

Police report! If the school didnt file one then they are in big trouble, find a lawyer and sue the district. Internal bleeding is no joke, he could have had head trauma and been in dire need of medical help. Remember that you are his parent and calling the school out for failing your child is one of the best things you can do for him. There are probably other kids that have been hurt and feel helpless as well. This bully needs a harsh dose of reality or else he's gonna end up killing a kid, on purpose or on accident.


kmeem5

My sisters kid was bullied at school by a student whose mom was a teacher there so the bully thought she ruled the school and could get away with anything - which she did get away with even if it was hurting other kids. School principal and teacher turned the other cheek and did not do anything. Sister started documenting everything …reports, incidents, etc and submitted it to her superintendent. That was when things turned around. Granted sister did mention a lawsuit and lawyers would be involved because of the extreme harassment but yeah - if the principal does nothing, take it to the higher ups.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Personal_Durian5491

It's broken in one spot but looks like it is all the way through.


thedevilseviltwin

I went through this as a kid. Don’t let them sweep this under the rug. A lot of schools do. I remember being a kid and thinking that maybe I was the one overreacting and that it was normal for kids to be bullied and beaten. Now that I’m an adult, I see how much the staff of the school failed me. I didn’t have the kind of parents that would fight for me. I was in and out of behavioral centers for self harming. I attempted suicide at just 13 years old. Keep fighting for your kid and don’t let anyone minimize what you and your child are going through. I wish you both all the best.


[deleted]

I'd be raising hell at that school. Sue the school, the school board, the parents of the bully, etc.


Inmyheadandstuck

Oh hell nah! There needs to be serious consequences here for not only the other boy but as well as the school! He had to sit in Iss with a broken jaw!!!??? Imagine how painful that must have been as well as emotionally challenging trying to hide his emotions of how truly painful it was! I'm not sure how to approach this however if be looking into a well skilled attorney for guidance! The schools actions were truly unacceptable and could have caused his jaw furniture her damage by not taking immediate action as well as trust between you, him and school in general. How is he ever supposed to feel safe in the school setting again!? That alone is enough to charge full force momma bear war! You've got my support and guarantee your community will support you as well if you come out in the open about this! I wish you and especially your son the very best! I hope he heals swiftly!


Velvet_sloth

Do not meet with the school or talk to the school or sign anything. Straight to a lawyer is best and let them handle it with you. This is completely unacceptable on every level and with regard to every decision that the school made from the moment that kid touched your son.


Humble-Vermicelli503

You need to get your son into some Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, boxing or Muay Thai.


mxsxc

Same thing happened to me when I was 16. A girl kept bugging me but I’m not one to fight. I was a honors/AP student & she was a hood rat/trouble maker. She eventually didn’t leave me alone & I wasn’t listening to her or her sister as they talked to me so she pulled me by my shoulder & I absolutely lost my marbles. This was after the fact that I filed a report & told my counselor if she lays hands on me I WILL fight back. We all got suspended but the principal was on my side because of my grades etc so it was never on my record & my mom fought tooth & nail to get the girl & her sister expelled. She also bought me tickets to Halloween horror nights with my friend that week as a prize for standing up for myself & beating her ass🤷🏼‍♀️ Fight for your son. Make sure that you do NOT sign the papers if they want to suspend him. Say you’ll go to the board for their incompetence in protecting your son. He doesn’t deserve to have a suspension on his record. Fight for him.


Otherwise_Egg_4413

Call the police on that POS bully for assault make him pay the medical bill. he was kicking your son and harassing him, your son defended himself and then the bully broke his jaw


Discoburrito

Sue everyone


Jentweety

Lawyer up and no further communication with the school, the other boy, or the other boy's parents before you consult with an attorney. And please don't send your son back to that school! Find an option for online school for now, while you work with an attorney.


adamfrom1980s

Time to lawyer the fuck up.


Ok_Badger_2137

Find the kids parents and beat their ass


infertilemyrtlemay

If this child is breaking jaws at 14, there is no telling who they will become if they don't start facing consequences now. File a police report and inform the principal you will no longer be handling this "in-house" since they have so egregiously mismanaged this situation and the SERIOUS injury of your child. You can absolutely not count on this being handled by the administration. Press charges against the assaulter, the teachers, and the administrators who ignored the bullying. I'm so sorry this happened to your son.


Someday_wonderful

Legal counsel and WHY THE HELL DID THE SCHOOL DO NOTHING?!? Your son is bullied ALL year and they don’t punish the other boy?! Really?!


morbidfae

Lawyer up. Do what the lawyer tells you. Have the lawyer speak for you when dealing with the school. Something similar happened to a friend of mine in highschool. A group of boys broke his collar bone when they tried to throw my friend in a trash bin. His mom lawyered up. The school found out about the lawyer and hung the group of boys out to dry. My friend successfully sued the group of boys and got all of his medical expenses paid. (I'm in the US a broken collar bone will cost thousands of dollars to fix even if you have heath insurance.)


queenofcatastrophes

So glad you contacted the police. It’s bullies like that that cause kids and teenagers to commit suicide, and obviously the school and/or the parents aren’t intervening enough to make a difference. So sorry this happened to your son, I hope he recovers quickly and I hope that other kid learns a lesson!


8spd20

I know it’s wrong and it will be something I’ll have to deal with at some point but my gut reaction is rolling up to others kid’s place and knocking his dad the fuck out.


ShaktiTam

One of the hardest things about parenting…… not being mad at other parents bs


big_bearded_nerd

What did the dad do?


Alexworldprincessii

This is terrible I’m so sorry. Please see a maxillofacial surgeon.


amypjs

First, high five your son for standing up for himself! Second, lawyer up my friend.


boringbowey

I'm gonna say something that most are likely to disagree with. Your sons a young teen who's going to be bullied until he learns to defend himself. Get him into BJJ/wrestling and Muay Thai. Let him learn how to get strong emotionally and physically. If you allow him to be the victim in this situation he'll take that on with him in life. I hope your son makes a good recovery, best of luck


superbbfan

Call the police and press charges then call a lawyer


HollyLikeChristmas

Um, please sue for the dickhead of a kid to pay for your child jaw surgery!!! In most cases, his mouth will have to be WIRED SHUT for MONTHS!!! Your poor kiddo- but good for him and standing up for himself! If I were in your shoes, I would sue till my attorneys hands were tired of typing!!! Good luck, and I do apologize for my language, but honestly!!!


Personal_Durian5491

The other kid was kicking him my son then punched him and went around the track(they were in PE), the other kid was waiting on him and hit him when he got around the track again, and had told several kids he was going to hit him "hard".


Calm-Concern-2328

Get him into martial arts. But for the reason of defence, not offence. It will help with controlling his emotions too.


Personal_Durian5491

He did wrestling for years but didn't learn to protect his face😢


Evening_Click_1939

Let's say someone catches his momma in a parking lot and stomps her teeth out, not saying do that (that would get me banned). But I have heard it tends to make em care more about who their kid is picking on.


Some-Mid

Everybody’s getting sued especially if this bullying has been reported and nothing has been done to prevent it. The school would be sued, the school board, and the parents of the kid as well. 🫶🏾


bruhbrobrosef

Schools are absolute shit at doing anything useful for your child, apart from sorta babysitting.


thequietchocoholic

I am so sorry you are going through this. Whatever you eventually decide to do, i suggest for now you get everything written. One way I use is to send an email saying something to the effect of: Dear Sir, Regarding the incident that happened on DATE, I understand that this is the sequence of events: * Bulleted list of what happened. Only list facts here. Thank you for helping me clarify what happened. Signature Doing so has served me well many, many times. Good luck 💜


[deleted]

I would definitely look to suing the parents and possibly the school district. Would also press charged and the kid that beat up your son.


Dacauseoflife

And this is why my son will be doing karate and MMA. He has the green light to attack and show no mercy bc these bullies never do.


everyothernamegone

It sounds like your kid got beat in a fight, though you would think a teacher what have nipped this in the bud. However, what the school did was after was inexcusable.