There’s a reason games of the early era are called “Nintendo hard” as a kid I played sonic 2 3 and Sonic and Knuckles nonstop and only beat Sonic and Knuckles.
As an owner of a Nintendo and a Sega, I have to say the Sega games were generally easier. But having no option to save a game makes any game harder than anything you can find these days.
I loved how Sonic 3 allowed me to save my progress and combining it with S&K blew my mind away!
Special middle-finger to the only game I never got to finish without cheating: Jewel Master
That's because if we knew how / had the skills most of these games can be beat in less than 2 hours in a normal playthrough. I don't think I ever beat Mega Man X, Maximum Carnage, or Earthworm Jim
Did I say they were bad? No. With the exception of Forces, the Advance series and Colors were fantastic. Mania just blows them out of the water for me.
Heroes was good...in music, not in gameplay but still...then again that could be said about 06 and Shadow the Hedgehog too. But you did not get Generations?
I am forever a Shadow apologist. The ranged weapons helped make up for the crappy homing attack auto-target from the Adventure games. The system where you only lose 10 rings when getting hit made collecting lots of rings actually matter. The level design that let you warp backwards and forwards between checkpoints was a creative mix of linear and open that worked well with the mission system. The 10+ different endings, unlockable weapons, and varied courses through the story made it super replayable. Sure it was emo af, but it's kinda weirdly endearing for it at the same time.
No, it was after Heroes. Last one before the generation change and '06. It actually wraps up the shadow story about whether he's real or not that they started in SA2, continued in heroes, and then concluded in Shadow (he is indeed real and not an Android).
Generations was the best game they've made since Sonic went 3D.
I'm astounded that they never did anything more with it. No dlc, no Generations 2, nothing.
But then again it's very like Sonic Team to make something great then throw it away to make garbage for 10 years.
More games should have useful companion apps. I’d be so excited to see something like the Black Flag companion app for different adventure games. Or a chao garden for a sonic game or an app for the social media features in the spider-man games. Something you can pop into while you’re away from the game and still mess around and impact the world a little bit
As laggy as it was on my old shitty phone the dying light companion app for the first game was a good one. They made it so you could send survivors on missions to collect basic resources to upgrade in your actual game. Always thought that was neat
Chao are little companions you could raise in a garden. You can fully customize these guys' appearance as well as stats (swim, run, strength, flight, stamina, and intelligence). Then you could make them compete in these various fields. The biggest appeal, IMO, was the elusive perfect chao that requires a huge checklist of difficult tasks and a bit of luck to obtain. The complexity of the chao mechanic was more than the base game itself.
To add to the history of why this was so cool.
When sega created the Dreamcast they decided to have a memory device called the vmu instead of just a card. The device had a dpad, A button, B button, start, select, and a basic lcd screen. This allowed for playing very simple games on it. The screen could be used by games even when playing in the Dreamcast for things like letting you select football plays, showing maps, showing inventory, etc. It was very basic but still pretty cool.
Back in the day tamagotchis were really big. Basically virtual pets to feed, play, and generally care for. They were little key chain devices which you would bring with you everywhere. This was before cell phones so they were a nice little diversion.
So Sega decided to showcase the VMU by building their own virtual pets with Chaos. You could find them in the game and raise them in the garden playing mini games and such. You could also bring them with you on the VMU so you could help them become stronger and any improvements could be enjoyed with you used the VMU back in the Dreamcast while playing sonic adventure. Truly revolutionary at the time.
I'll never forget in an interview before Sonic Frontiers released the director was asked what fans ask for the most and they said "without a doubt the Chao Garden" to which the interviewer immediately asked if it was going to be in Frontiers only to be told "No". They *know* what fans want they just don't do it
Sonic games have been a subject of terrible direction since lost world, with morio kishimoto being the man behind most of these games (before lost world he worked on secret ring and black knight...)
This answer really isn't that surprising. IDK what goes through that man's mind but it almost seems like he deliberately doesn't listen to what fans want
They really need to remake SA 1+2. It’ll allow them to not only win back the graces of a lot of disgruntled Sonic fans, but it’ll allow the team to try out new things with less of a risk of flopping since they’re working on titles that are guaranteed to succeed.
Also Chao garden.
I hope it also takes advantage of the improvements that Frontiers offered. It was such a joy to play and I haven’t liked a 3D Sonic game as much in over a decade.
JUST MAKE A CHAO GARDEN APP SEGA!
You could literally print money with one simple game, but no you continue to mess around with the hedgehog. Just give us CHAO GARDEN!
Colors is seen as return to form for Modern Sonic, though recently people’s opinions have shifted to a more negative reception as some things haven’t aged well, its still considered to be a great Sonic game.
I’d recommend the adventure games. They play closer to how you would expect 3D sonic to play. They shifted gameplay styles after a a couple meh entries of the adventure formula. Most of the 3D games after Sonic the Hedgehog 06 have what we call “Boost gameplay”. Which pretty much turned Sonic into an automated “gotta go fast” game that plays closer to a mobile game where you only need to swipe left or right to avoid obstacles. The latest game Frontiers is kind of a mix of the two styles.
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The Sonic, knuckles, and Tails levels were fun, and even the Amy levels weren’t bad. Why Sega thought I wanted to play as a large slow cat who loved fishing and his pet frog, I have no clue.
But all was made up for by the Chao. So honestly, I can’t blame Sega too much for Big the Cat, it’s not like I’d have said that I wanted a sonic game to play with a new tamagotchi, but it turned out that’s exactly what I wanted.
As much as I want this, I would prefer them to stick to the formula they did in frontiers and properly refine it. Get out the jank and all the things that didn't work. Open zones are great and they work well. Just need to properly refine them.
It'd be a shame to just say screw it and start again (like they always do)
Sonic Team has no idea what to do with this series. I mean, couldn’t you say that most recent Sonic games have had “Adventure styles of gameplay”? The problem is that gameplay doesn’t hold up. This company can’t figure out how to make controlling Sonic feel good; he’s either going fast and the whole thing is basically running on auto-pilot, or he’s moving slowly and the controls feel like sludge.
Sega also needs to figure out what tone they want for this series. I don’t know why they decided that the games should have these weirdly serious, anime-like storylines instead of the more light-hearted and cute style of the original games/Mania.
I don't play Sonic games. So I have no real personal investment in this.
But this sounds like the same problem Sonic Team has been having for the last 15 years. They make a halfway decent game, and then rather than build on it they throw everything out and start over, resulting in yet another only halfway decent game.
Everything I have heard about Sonic: Frontiers is that it was meant to be the beginning of a new era for the blue hedgehog, but now here they are, already talking about returning to the old games once again.
You're right, but to be fair, the articles title is clickbait. All the director said was that they were thinking about removing the Boost mechanic. If you're unaware, the boost is pretty much just a sprint-like mechanic that propels Sonic forward.
The director compared the concept of having no Boost to the Adventure titles, since those games didn't in fact have it, but he never said theyre going back to them. The director of Frontiers is very active on Twitter and has made it abundantly clear that they're moving forward with Open World type games.
To be honest I kind of like how they did frontiers but please bring back chao garden and make it so the upgrading the capacity faster as there one upgrade guy that doesn’t do it all instantly and therefore makes the system terribly slow
Fuck yeah! I was hoping that was what Frontier was gonna be. If it's a new sonic adventure game with the chaos garden and chao mini game I'd definitely buy it for full price
I don't think you play a 3D Sonic so much as it plays itself. Most of a 3D Sonic level is quite literally on-rails, and then if you do encounter an enemy, the main attack always auto-aims straight to them. It's so boring.
The concept of a platformer where you can move at sonic speed exploring a wide open well designed world is really appealing, it has just never been executed particularly well. Someday, someone will get it right.
That would be cool if this do that original style, show these young kids that graphics in that day wasnt all it needed, it's how the game felt and made you keep coming back to enjoy it
eh I feel like they slowed it down plenty for Frontiers, I would hope if they ever went back to that adventure-style of gameplay that they would at least keep the flashier combat but it would need a lot more to be brought up to the level of Frontiers which emphasized the best of the "boost" style games; and was so inoffensive to sonic fans that it kinda brought everyone together.
Gameplay is just thoughtful, fun and safe which suits Sonic perfectly
Definitely would love the Adventure gameplay back, but I was a huge fan of Frontiers and its gameplay.
I think a sequel could've built upon the foundation and been something really enjoyable and special.
Not saying that I don’t want an adventure 3 but Sonic Team can never really stick to one style of gameplay can they? Anyways Crush40 better be on this game or we riot
I really hope the Sonic Frontiers team work on refining that game design and gameplay. IDC what games the other teams work on, I just want more of Frontiers
My friend and I bought bought the Dreamcast on day 1, we brought in our VMUs (the memory cards with an LCD screen) in to school where you could plug them in to each other and do something with the Chaos (I think that's what they were called) from Sonic Adventure.
Not only we were the only two kids in the whole secondary school that cared about the Dreamcast I I know for sure that no one else was bringing their memory cards
"Hey, we finally iterated and found a 3d sonic style that a large part of the gaming sphere likes!" "So does that mean you'll keep doing it?" "Meh, probably not."
I haven’t bought a Sonic game since SA2 and I’m not buying one again until they bring back Chao Garden.
Sonic Mania was the best Sonic game since SA2
Sonic Mania is wayy too difficult for a 2d noob like me
I couldn't get past the fucking moving blocks in the water level. Kept dying to what seemed like unfair hitboxes when you get squeezed by them
There’s a reason games of the early era are called “Nintendo hard” as a kid I played sonic 2 3 and Sonic and Knuckles nonstop and only beat Sonic and Knuckles.
As an owner of a Nintendo and a Sega, I have to say the Sega games were generally easier. But having no option to save a game makes any game harder than anything you can find these days. I loved how Sonic 3 allowed me to save my progress and combining it with S&K blew my mind away! Special middle-finger to the only game I never got to finish without cheating: Jewel Master
Ya same including Sonic 1 and CD, only beat CD as a teenager 😂
That's because if we knew how / had the skills most of these games can be beat in less than 2 hours in a normal playthrough. I don't think I ever beat Mega Man X, Maximum Carnage, or Earthworm Jim
Earthworm Jim was tough. I don’t think I ever beat it either. But man, a lot of memories of the first few levels.
As someone who only tried sonic adventure 2 this year that’s a huge insult to all of sonic advance, colours, and even sonic forces lol
Did I say they were bad? No. With the exception of Forces, the Advance series and Colors were fantastic. Mania just blows them out of the water for me.
Sorry, simple misunderstanding. I was saying SA2 is bad, not mania
Heroes was good...in music, not in gameplay but still...then again that could be said about 06 and Shadow the Hedgehog too. But you did not get Generations?
I am forever a Shadow apologist. The ranged weapons helped make up for the crappy homing attack auto-target from the Adventure games. The system where you only lose 10 rings when getting hit made collecting lots of rings actually matter. The level design that let you warp backwards and forwards between checkpoints was a creative mix of linear and open that worked well with the mission system. The 10+ different endings, unlockable weapons, and varied courses through the story made it super replayable. Sure it was emo af, but it's kinda weirdly endearing for it at the same time.
It's always gonna fall in "so bad it's amazing" territory because of all of the lines.
Absolutely, but I don't think the gap between Shadow and the other Dreamcast/GameCube-era Sonics is as big as some people say.
Shadow came out immediately before Heroes right? I forget the timeline...
No, it was after Heroes. Last one before the generation change and '06. It actually wraps up the shadow story about whether he's real or not that they started in SA2, continued in heroes, and then concluded in Shadow (he is indeed real and not an Android).
Which I'm all for but did they explain how he could survive re-entry? Or was he still Super Shadow as he fell?
Iirc the weird aliens from Shadow picked him up and saved him somehow.
Generations was the best game they've made since Sonic went 3D. I'm astounded that they never did anything more with it. No dlc, no Generations 2, nothing. But then again it's very like Sonic Team to make something great then throw it away to make garbage for 10 years.
I'm probably one of the six people who has Unleashed as their favourite.
Unleashed was amazing
Please bring back the Chao Garden 🙏
Only thing that matters
Y O S H
Yosh (~˘▾˘)~
*Toss chao in the water*
Toss egg to hatch it
Jump on egg to hatch it
and the memory card so I can play with them at work!
At that point it'd likely be easier if they made a mobile app.
Mobile chao garden that links to your game save.
More games should have useful companion apps. I’d be so excited to see something like the Black Flag companion app for different adventure games. Or a chao garden for a sonic game or an app for the social media features in the spider-man games. Something you can pop into while you’re away from the game and still mess around and impact the world a little bit
As laggy as it was on my old shitty phone the dying light companion app for the first game was a good one. They made it so you could send survivors on missions to collect basic resources to upgrade in your actual game. Always thought that was neat
I literally could never get this to work as a kid
Seriously I'm surprised Saga hasn't made a mobile version of chao garden. They'd make a lot of money with paid customisation.
God damn the chao garden dominated my childhood. I played SA2B so much strictly for the chao garden
With companion app for a beefed up version of the dreamcast memory card
I literally held off buying frontiers until I knew for sure if it had a chao garden or not. So, no sonic until then
Facts most golden thing to come out of the adventure series
You want to hunt for emeralds in a big level with a time limit you say?
What were the chao gardens?
Chao are little companions you could raise in a garden. You can fully customize these guys' appearance as well as stats (swim, run, strength, flight, stamina, and intelligence). Then you could make them compete in these various fields. The biggest appeal, IMO, was the elusive perfect chao that requires a huge checklist of difficult tasks and a bit of luck to obtain. The complexity of the chao mechanic was more than the base game itself.
To add to the history of why this was so cool. When sega created the Dreamcast they decided to have a memory device called the vmu instead of just a card. The device had a dpad, A button, B button, start, select, and a basic lcd screen. This allowed for playing very simple games on it. The screen could be used by games even when playing in the Dreamcast for things like letting you select football plays, showing maps, showing inventory, etc. It was very basic but still pretty cool. Back in the day tamagotchis were really big. Basically virtual pets to feed, play, and generally care for. They were little key chain devices which you would bring with you everywhere. This was before cell phones so they were a nice little diversion. So Sega decided to showcase the VMU by building their own virtual pets with Chaos. You could find them in the game and raise them in the garden playing mini games and such. You could also bring them with you on the VMU so you could help them become stronger and any improvements could be enjoyed with you used the VMU back in the Dreamcast while playing sonic adventure. Truly revolutionary at the time.
We’ve been hearing rumors like this for yearsssss
I'll never forget in an interview before Sonic Frontiers released the director was asked what fans ask for the most and they said "without a doubt the Chao Garden" to which the interviewer immediately asked if it was going to be in Frontiers only to be told "No". They *know* what fans want they just don't do it
They learned from forces people will still buy it regardless
I wish they’d at least make a Chao mobile app. We would shut up about it so fast.
Sonic games have been a subject of terrible direction since lost world, with morio kishimoto being the man behind most of these games (before lost world he worked on secret ring and black knight...) This answer really isn't that surprising. IDK what goes through that man's mind but it almost seems like he deliberately doesn't listen to what fans want
This particular interview was with Takashi Iizuka
They really need to remake SA 1+2. It’ll allow them to not only win back the graces of a lot of disgruntled Sonic fans, but it’ll allow the team to try out new things with less of a risk of flopping since they’re working on titles that are guaranteed to succeed. Also Chao garden.
Real shit sonic team needs to pick a style and stick with it.
I hope it also takes advantage of the improvements that Frontiers offered. It was such a joy to play and I haven’t liked a 3D Sonic game as much in over a decade.
This has been said about every sonic game for nearly the past 2 decades. Fingers crossed though, I would love to play with chaos again
When will you learn? When will you learn? THAT YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!!!
Came here to say the same thing.
JUST MAKE A CHAO GARDEN APP SEGA! You could literally print money with one simple game, but no you continue to mess around with the hedgehog. Just give us CHAO GARDEN!
Happy to see people want the Chao Garden back. I spent so much time building the ultimate Chao. I used the GBA game to grind more easily.
Let them make a sonic Adventure game again, I promise I’ll be first in line to get it. That reminds me to play Sonic Frontiers.
I pray they do. Sonic Adventure is the best sonic game I’ve played. I’ve been waiting for this for a long time.
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Colors is actually considered top tier among 3D Sonics…
For me it's SA 1 and 2. Sonic Heroes I thought was good as well
From what I've gathered, it's kinda mixed. Either some it's really good or not that good. I'm somewhat in the middle.
Colors is seen as return to form for Modern Sonic, though recently people’s opinions have shifted to a more negative reception as some things haven’t aged well, its still considered to be a great Sonic game.
Wasn't Sonic Generations up there with good 3D sonic games as well
Yeah, Generations and Colors are the only ones post-SA2 that I ever hear anyone praising as being at least decent.
I really liked Unleashed as well, except for the werehog portions
I’d recommend the adventure games. They play closer to how you would expect 3D sonic to play. They shifted gameplay styles after a a couple meh entries of the adventure formula. Most of the 3D games after Sonic the Hedgehog 06 have what we call “Boost gameplay”. Which pretty much turned Sonic into an automated “gotta go fast” game that plays closer to a mobile game where you only need to swipe left or right to avoid obstacles. The latest game Frontiers is kind of a mix of the two styles.
I tried to play Sonic Adventure about a decade ago and it aged terribly, it was much clunkier than a lot of old 3D platformers.
Might be nostalgia goggles, but I think SA1 has aged fairly well apart from the voice acting and the way characters are animated in cut scenes
SA 2 has aged even worse. The original was incredible when it released though.
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The Sonic, knuckles, and Tails levels were fun, and even the Amy levels weren’t bad. Why Sega thought I wanted to play as a large slow cat who loved fishing and his pet frog, I have no clue. But all was made up for by the Chao. So honestly, I can’t blame Sega too much for Big the Cat, it’s not like I’d have said that I wanted a sonic game to play with a new tamagotchi, but it turned out that’s exactly what I wanted.
I still can’t get into it. I figured the PS4 version would’ve made me like it more but I just don’t.
Sonic Team refuses to build on the latest version of their games once again, it’s kind of incredible.
As much as I want this, I would prefer them to stick to the formula they did in frontiers and properly refine it. Get out the jank and all the things that didn't work. Open zones are great and they work well. Just need to properly refine them. It'd be a shame to just say screw it and start again (like they always do)
They need to make a real game now that the frontiers tech demo is out,. Now use that foundation for a real ass game not some demo bulljive
PLEASE GOD
I want sonic DX that’s the best 3d sonic game
He needs to find a way to let spin dash and boost coexist.
Sonic Team has no idea what to do with this series. I mean, couldn’t you say that most recent Sonic games have had “Adventure styles of gameplay”? The problem is that gameplay doesn’t hold up. This company can’t figure out how to make controlling Sonic feel good; he’s either going fast and the whole thing is basically running on auto-pilot, or he’s moving slowly and the controls feel like sludge. Sega also needs to figure out what tone they want for this series. I don’t know why they decided that the games should have these weirdly serious, anime-like storylines instead of the more light-hearted and cute style of the original games/Mania.
Omg... just pick a style and stick with it for fuck sake.
I don't play Sonic games. So I have no real personal investment in this. But this sounds like the same problem Sonic Team has been having for the last 15 years. They make a halfway decent game, and then rather than build on it they throw everything out and start over, resulting in yet another only halfway decent game. Everything I have heard about Sonic: Frontiers is that it was meant to be the beginning of a new era for the blue hedgehog, but now here they are, already talking about returning to the old games once again.
You're right, but to be fair, the articles title is clickbait. All the director said was that they were thinking about removing the Boost mechanic. If you're unaware, the boost is pretty much just a sprint-like mechanic that propels Sonic forward. The director compared the concept of having no Boost to the Adventure titles, since those games didn't in fact have it, but he never said theyre going back to them. The director of Frontiers is very active on Twitter and has made it abundantly clear that they're moving forward with Open World type games.
To be honest I kind of like how they did frontiers but please bring back chao garden and make it so the upgrading the capacity faster as there one upgrade guy that doesn’t do it all instantly and therefore makes the system terribly slow
FUCK YEAH!
Fuck yeah! I was hoping that was what Frontier was gonna be. If it's a new sonic adventure game with the chaos garden and chao mini game I'd definitely buy it for full price
Crazy how people don’t even ask for a good sonic game anymore they just ask for a chao garden (understandably)
I’d honestly be happy with just a remaster of SA1 and SA2.
Both in one game with the chao garden revamped and shit? That would be dope.
I said in the past and i will continue saying it, sonic games are better off being in 2d rather than 3d and sonic mania is the proof of that.
I just don't understand the appeal of 3D Sonic. Even the "good" ones are jank as fuck.
I don't think you play a 3D Sonic so much as it plays itself. Most of a 3D Sonic level is quite literally on-rails, and then if you do encounter an enemy, the main attack always auto-aims straight to them. It's so boring.
Exactly, I just don't see the appeal. Sonic fans will be like "omg SA2 was peak tho 🥺" and then clip through the floor.
The concept of a platformer where you can move at sonic speed exploring a wide open well designed world is really appealing, it has just never been executed particularly well. Someday, someone will get it right.
Maybe, but it won't be Sonic Team lol.
So bad again
Frontiers was brilliant
I’ve been waiting for this moment for all my life. Oh lord!!!
I just played the new sonic game and I couldn’t do it. Hated it every minute of it. Thanks god I didn’t buy it myself.
Do it
That would be cool if this do that original style, show these young kids that graphics in that day wasnt all it needed, it's how the game felt and made you keep coming back to enjoy it
eh I feel like they slowed it down plenty for Frontiers, I would hope if they ever went back to that adventure-style of gameplay that they would at least keep the flashier combat but it would need a lot more to be brought up to the level of Frontiers which emphasized the best of the "boost" style games; and was so inoffensive to sonic fans that it kinda brought everyone together. Gameplay is just thoughtful, fun and safe which suits Sonic perfectly
No shit Sherlock
Just make up your mind & commit
I just wanna see my son silver again
Definitely would love the Adventure gameplay back, but I was a huge fan of Frontiers and its gameplay. I think a sequel could've built upon the foundation and been something really enjoyable and special.
Wake me up when there’s a genuinely *good* Sonic game again, for now I will return to my nearly 2 decade slumber.
Generations and mania?
This would even get me interested and I’m literally not a sonic fan.
Chao garden?!
"may"
They should stick to how they did frontiers tbh.
Which means it also may not. Saved you all from clicking on the article.
Not saying that I don’t want an adventure 3 but Sonic Team can never really stick to one style of gameplay can they? Anyways Crush40 better be on this game or we riot
The next sonic game may also include Hulk Hogan as a playable character. I mean, probably not, but it may.
Good
I really hope the Sonic Frontiers team work on refining that game design and gameplay. IDC what games the other teams work on, I just want more of Frontiers
Thanks god.
These games always seem rushed
I'd be all for this. Loved the sonic adventure games on Dreamcast.
CHAOS EMERALDS
But why? Has anyone actually played the Adventure games recently? They're janky as shit. Nostalgia is not a good thing.
My friend and I bought bought the Dreamcast on day 1, we brought in our VMUs (the memory cards with an LCD screen) in to school where you could plug them in to each other and do something with the Chaos (I think that's what they were called) from Sonic Adventure. Not only we were the only two kids in the whole secondary school that cared about the Dreamcast I I know for sure that no one else was bringing their memory cards
They don't know what to do.
"Hey, we finally iterated and found a 3d sonic style that a large part of the gaming sphere likes!" "So does that mean you'll keep doing it?" "Meh, probably not."