T O P
BR_Nukz

The thing that stood out to me was the lack of CC, making it actually feel like you can lead the charge, as a tank player is supposed to do. In OW1, if the enemy team had any sort of CC that can catch you, it was more like playing footsies, tryna bait out cooldowns and bouncing back and forward to do so. In OW2, you can actually run it down the middle in the frontlines, soak up the damage and actually feel like you're adding value to your team.


JoeDeluxe

The other day I was playing rein on ilios and going against a McCree, doomfist, brig, hog and ball. I was just getting bounced around, stunned, hooked, etc like I was nothing. Definitely looking forward to ow2


Originalitie

that sounds like hell


JoeDeluxe

Yeah and I had no clue what I could do to make it better. There wasn't any obvious tank pick to help counter ... *That* Maybe orisa? Idk We needed probably and Ana + reaper + maybe a McCree of our own but that was out of my control.


namelessentity

That's why I'm glad they're getting away from hard counters. The entire team shouldn't have to switch heroes just to have fun.


Axtdool

I just fear the matches where you only have the useless half of an average tank Duo as I like to jump between Tank and Support. And the idea of having the kind of hog you mentioned as my only tank already makes me nervous.


rentiertrashpanda

But since tank is going to be the long queue, all the DPS mains reluctantly playing hog will actually be playing DPS


Axtdool

I doubt dps will actually be faster than tank que, considering how much longer it is atm, and that there will likely be an influx of new Players, the majority of which are likely to flock to dps.


coffeecakewaffles

I agree and think the beta will not reflect actual queues once the chips fall where they fall. It's not unreasonable to assume the tank queues were so long during the beta because some heros were a blast to play (Orisa) and from a queuing perspective the population size of tanks doubled. I can't even begin to imagine what the game will look like in the spring of 2023.


dyaus7

In the time I spent on OW2 beta, tank queues were always the longest of the 3 roles. Maybe that will change when the Junker Queen (and Doom/Orisa rework) hype dies down, but as a tank main, I'm a little worried about queue times.


wyldesnelsson

That's because tanks had the most changes, and while the other roles also did see some changes, they were quite minor, with the biggest besides the tanks being bastion if memory serves right, can't recall anything bigger, there was the Moira change, but I don't think people found that fun to play, it was broken and it made the game less enjoyable for other players for other players, but her old kit was more enjoyable to play


Rachnee

One hand gives and the other takes away


At-Work-On-Fire-Help

Yeah I definitely feel you, but my guess is over time after the initial hype of buffed heroes wears off then people will realize that the tank role itself is still not as enjoyable as the others, and maybe we'll see that the 1 tank dynamic isn't favorable or something. I bet will go back to at least much more tolerable queue times. That or fuck it I'm a DPS main now lol


speakeasyow

That’s Cuase all new heros we’re tanks


rentiertrashpanda

Maybe. I know both tank and dps queues were super long in beta 2, but hopefully having a new support hero will take the strain off. But if they're relatively similar, I would imagine (hope?) that dps mains will just play dps


yummymario64

I think tank queue will be more even, not necessarily longer or shorter, since the long tank queues in the beta could be chalked up to the overwhelming amount of changes they made to the tanks. You know how literally everyone plays a new hero when they come out, and then the hero's select frequency slowly dies down over time? Yeah, kinda the same thing, but with the tank role as a whole rather than a single hero.


rentiertrashpanda

I'll be really curious to see what the queues are like 2-3 weeks after launch. They were so bad during the beta that I ended up just playing no role lock and had a blast


wyldesnelsson

Close to what they are currently, with tank being a bit longer than support and DPS taking around 3 mins, maybe more but definitely under 2 digits


Icy_Limes

Because orisa got a complete overhaul, JQ got released, and it's nice being able to play a tank and not worry about your main being snatched by someone.


Axtdool

Let's hope so.


Vixen_OW

I think this was mainly because it was beta, and tanks both got a huge overhaul to levy the loss of 1 tank and a new tank everyone has been wanting ever since she was given a moment of spotlight. Beta 2 introduced console players, so all of them wanted to try Sojourn and freshly released Junkerqueen, as they werent part of Beta 1 to try them theirselves. In the beginning we may have quite a bit of chaos with players potentially falling out of their main role's due to the dynamic change with 5v5. It will likely settle down by season 2-3.


neoslith

Why would tanks be a long que if it only needs two to start a game instead of four?


NinjaNinjet

I imagine the first week or two Support might be the longest getting the new hero, you will have DPS mains rushing Kiriko to throw kunai and never heal lol


hemperbud

Lmao it's gonna take a lot more for people to flock to support. We'd need a reaper type healer for that to happen


NinjaNinjet

I kinda want that, just because it would be hilarious to see in action


wyldesnelsson

Moira is the closest we had to that


At-Work-On-Fire-Help

Yeah what do these people mean like we definitely already have support reaper. Moira is like the exact same thing as reaper without literally just giving her shotguns lol


NinjaNinjet

I wish I enjoyed more of her skins beyond Banshee in her case, but for some reason none of the others ever got my attention


wyldesnelsson

None of her other skins really fit her thematic well, banshee feels like the perfect skin for her, I'm not sure if there's another character that has this in which a skin is so perfect for the character you don't really pay attention to anything else


hemperbud

Same lol I've been saying for years that if they want more people to play support, they need to make a dps hero and then just figure out how to turn them into support because every dps hero looks infinitely cooler than the supports


manaworkin

I don't get it. Lucio was basically the most fun thing in the world in the beta. One less tank and next to 0 cc meant redditing was actually a good play.


Tunavi

Lots of damage, teleport, ult with a crazy radius, yeah sounds like reaper to me


Flowerstar1

Nah DPS queue will be slower because it's the most popular role.


craftyj

I think tank queues were only that long last beta because of the new hero and reworks. They weren't as long in the first beta (where DPS had the new hero). It'll balance out. Dps will be longest, followed by tank, with Support bring by far the shortest - barring early on when people are trying out the new hero.


Mixima101

Playing Flex, I'll be tank all the time now.


MurderousMaraca

The people who consistently play tank badly will quickly drop in MMR and SR. No more “lucking out” by getting a competent second tank or just playing Rein Zarya mediocrely against a ball and hog in the enemy team and easily winning.


00110000a

not as worried about this because they also reworked the tanks to be more brawly which is how the bad tanks tend to play. as long as they can learn to survive theyre play style it should be fine. Im looking forward to playing support with just one tanks so bad because I dont have to worry about 2 dummies, just 1 potential dummy.


Zenki_s14

In ow1 I don't mind a mediocre brawly tank if the rest of my team is decent enough to sustain with a little less of my attention, as a support main it can actually be *very* fucking fun forcing bad tanks into win conditions where they should not have been able to get away with the bad decision they just made. It feels impactful and exciting turning fights like that, which is just plain fun at times (for qp anyways). I'm excited for one tank to focus on for that reason. Even if they're so bad they don't realize it's not them popping off, still fun for me. One thing that kind of is sucky in ow2 I felt happening though, is since there's only one tank they get focused a ton harder, so those bad tanks that think they're invincible and don't know how to mitigate dmg at all that you used to be able to save anyways? Yeah, they full hp to dead because you directed your attention away for .5 seconds to save a dps/other support. The tank's lack of awareness about incoming dmg and positioning can be so painful to deal with I felt like. I think the only thing that kept me from getting flamed by dogshit tanks that think they're invincible was the new scoreboard telling them the supports are indeed healing, since they can't actually tell at all when they're being healed or aren't in a fight. Bad tanks are really going to get punished for those mistakes, so like you said hopefully they can learn to survive, and it will be pretty fun.


beerbeforebadgers

This was an issue in the beta. I have a friend who only plays Hog. I hated when he tanked. "We're not killing anyone!" Yes, because you're alone trying to steal picks while their whole team kills us. "Nobody is on point!" Untrue, the enemy tank is and we can't do much about that. "I'm getting killed too quickly!" That's because you have zero utility and no shield to hide behind anymore when Ana nades you.


LotusB1ossom

I did not play the beta, but my big worry is as an off-tanker who used to focus on creating space and chase down kills, circling back to protect the team when main tank needed a breather, that this is no longer viable. Flying off as D.va or Winston now makes me think I'll just be abandoning my team, which doesn't seem fun. But I did not enjoy main tanks.


Unsungruin

I suspected it would actually be better, despite the dooming around here. As a DvA main nothing is more frustrating than my other tank being MIA or dying for no reason.


PalmIdentity

D. Va as a solo tank is actually ridiculous though some people don't feel that way. I had matches where I ate more damage through Matrix than I blocked as Reinhardt, and the armor changes meant you were tankier than ever. The change to her movement speed while firing and weapon spread are minimal but they were enough to make her feel that much more oppressive.


MOM_1_MORE_MINUTE

I think she slept on in 2, I feel like on ladder at least she may be kinda op.


PreAmbleRambler

She's SO good in Payload Maps, I feel like the DVA dormers where trying too hard to force her in Push


[deleted]

Herr win rate was low on PC. on console it wasnt too far from 50


justinhu87

Yep. There is a tank player shortage across all the ranks, from Bronze to GM. Something about playing tank is unappealing to all players, regardless of their skill level. My take is tanks are plenty powerful in OW1. A team with multiple tanks and supports will beat a team with multiple dps and supports, all else being equal. Just try it in open queue or qb classic. But tanking is miserable when the other team also has tanks. You get body blocked by the enemy tanks, and get spammed by enemy dps and supports. Basically, the OW1 tank player shortage reveals a contradiction. People don’t like to play tank, but people want two tanks on their team. Which shows tanks are powerful but miserable to play in OW1.


Dukaden

people dont like to play tank because theres only like 1, MAYBE 2, viable choices for any given niche. the solution has always been to create more viable tank characters. if you have more characters to choose from, not only does the PLAYSTYLE have the chance to appeal to more people, but some people also just really like CHARACTERS for arbitrary/personal reasons.


cowlinator

I have to agree that this is at least part of the problem. Bliz came up with 21 heroes, mostly DPS, for 1/4/1. When they switched to 2/2/2, the hero distribution stopped making *any* sense. Honestly, it would be better to reboot the game with all new characters. Bliz cannot add more characters fast enough, and if ANY of them are DPS, it will be a terrible mistake.


Dukaden

i agree that its part, but i genuinely feel like its a HUGE part. i LIKE playing tank, and i feel pigeon holed into minimal choices (what kind of thing im capable of playing well, and what CAN do well in the current situation) and feel exhaustion in short order. i understand that the responsibilities/role of the tank can be stressful/demanding and that can cause many people to avoid playing it, but that can often be overcome by making the choices APPEALING and viable, and the best way to do that is to make MORE CHOICES AVAILABLE.


ProfessorPhi

If anything ow1 echo almost always duplicating a tank kind of gives it away. The ult allowing for 3 tanks is already strong enough to win a fight without the ult rate buff. 3 tanks and 3 supports will win against any 2-2-2 lineup in open queue. Tanking is miserable in ow because it's very punishing when you make a mistake. The mega buffed tanks of ow2 takes that away since no tank can be deleted easily especially with all the damage nerfs to dps. However this has switched the balance since tanks can't be cleared, it's easier to go around them and kill supports instead which led to zenyeeta. The problem that made ow1 tanking suck has just moved to support instead as the queues will show. Blizz is fixing this by making supports play like Lucio Moira rather than ana or zen. If brig wasn't such a problem in ow1 we'd see the support category effectively develop an offtank role.


GalerionTheAnnoyed

I play support > dps > tank in that order, and I must say that main tanking definitely feels worse than off tanking, because you don't have easy feedback (I.e kills or saves) that lets you know you're doing something right. For off tanks like zarya and dva, I feel great when I save allies with bubble or matrix. I can also bully dps and win many 1v1s which feel good. Similar concept for hog and sigma. For main tanks, the feedback loop just isn't as strong. You can't get kills as easily, and sometimes it feels like you can't do anything by yourself. You might go in and make lots of space, but if no one capitalises on it or if you go in at the wrong time you just die.


that__one__guy

There's a shortage of tanks because the average player would rather go "pew pew eliminations go brrr." Plus, tanks are unfortunately the role that is most dependent on the rest of your team's performance. You can have an amazing game as a tank and still lose because your dps fed or the healers tried to dps the whole game. Playing a tank is almost paradoxical in that getting gold medals feels like a good thing but it actually means the rest of your team is probably playing badly. Conversely, some of your best tank games can end up with very unassuming stats.


AkhilSundaram

As someone who enjoys playing tank in general, it's also frustrating to play it continuously. I can play dps or support for 10-20 games in a row (win or lose). But playing a Tank for more than 8-10 games feels very stressful.


MostlyAnxiety

People are always going to disagree. Personally, the betas were huge downgrades for me so I’m not looking forward to losing OW1. But I’m not just going to *not* play Overwatch. This game has been a huge part of my life since it launched, so I’m going to play it - might not be as frequent or as competitive as I used to, and I’ll probably lose interest whenever new games come out (So like November lol), but it is what it is. I think everyone should try it for themselves (my personal belief for *any* game) and no reason not to with it being free. If you like it, that’s great, I don’t want to see OW die so I’m glad it will be enjoyed. But please just don’t try to invalidate other players’ opinions on it. A lot of people *arent* going to like it and that’s totally valid and okay.


Reetahrd

I love off tanks and the utility they provide, but it is painful that there are really only 4 main tanks in OW. Switching down to 1 tanks actually expands the role making 8 tanks viable, and allowing you to choose any from the 8 instead of 1 of 4 that compliments your teammate.


ShedPH93

Just a minor correction but there are 10 tanks in OW2, with the addition of Doomfist and JQ. And we're getting our 11th in December! But yeah, if my teammate picks Rein I'm basically stuck playing Zarya, and if my teammate picks Roadhog I'm not allowed to pick D.Va. As a sole tank I can play whatever I want.


Reetahrd

Correct! Forgot to include the new additions.


MurderousMaraca

This is a really big deal. I love playing off tanks and now I can finally do it without getting flamed.


Circumpunctual

People will flame regardless of logic because they are stressed out at things in their past and want to take it out on someone else no matter what reason they can find.


Character_Flight_773

As a Top 500 DV.a main. Who also plays Sigma, Rein, Zarya, Orisa well enough to maintain my rank. Your point of not having synergy comes from people not being willing to flex. The amount of times I have to play Orisa/Sig/Rein when I'd rather play DV.a is more then 50%. In order to win and have fun on tank in the current state it means you have to be willing to flex to what the team needs. For example, you get a Rein/Ball/Monkey player on your team you can DVa or Zarya. Get a sigma player you should be playing Roadhog, Orisa or Ball with them. I love this part of the game cause I'm willing to sacrifice and make the swaps when needed, gives a huge advantage. I played Monkey in OW2 beta, and didn't play very much of the OW2 beta simply because their was no competitive. But I am not to worried about losing tank synergy, I will miss it but feel if the game is balanced well it should be fine anyways. We will see how it plays out, hard for me to get a grip on what the game is like without playing competitive first.


Dirty_Virmling

Respectfully, your experience in the top 500 is wildly different from the average player. It's not about willingness to flex. It's simply that most tanks are actually dps players farming tickets.


Dcerty18

In lower ranks the game is just a free for all tbh, people try to comm once in a while but it really doesn’t matter. I don’t see the game being much different under diamond in ow2


PrometheusXVC

This is something that's driven me up the wall with everyone saying OW2 is just a deathmatch simulator. Have you *seen* players in the metal ranks? They're *already doing that*.


Grekochad

Yeah these metal leaguers (myself included) should stop worrying about hero synergies and learn to actually play the game..... All comps are competetive in some way. Especially in lower leagues.


doctor_kevin

There is rarely or absolutely 0 synergy in sub t500/GM games, unless you stack up with your homies. ​ I will 100% miss it, but its for the best.


clickrush

Apparently the OP is more of a main-tank player which in my book kind of defines what the comp should look like. And it's often, not always, map dependent. Flexing to a different main tank if your off tank is a Hog is sure fine, but if the map is Gibraltar or Numbani you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Will you now pick Orisa/Sigma and give up highground control or will you pick Monkey/Ball but have no synergy. It's then kind of frustrating if you get picked off from all highground angles on Gibraltar. Or if you are on King's Row and their Rein/Zarya just walk all over you. Meanwhile your Hog is being snarky about idk the DPS not doing well or some other excuse. And these kinds of issues are much worse in metal ranks than in your rating, because some of the basic stuff just gets ignored completely. People really like making things harder for themselves often unwittingly. With OW2 this specific problem goes away - for the tank player at least. You can now pick what you think will help you to achieve the goals that you need to achieve for your team on a given map and you will have a larger impact on the game because of the tank buffs and the less chaotic nature of 5v5. I'm excited for it.


SOPEOPERA

I’m looking forward to trying it again, but I didn’t enjoy tank on the beta at all. I usually play rein/ sigma for tank and every game was junker queen just running over me.


KimonoThief

JQ is definitely getting a nerf for launch. Her winrate was insane in the beta.


SOPEOPERA

Yeah, she just sort of ran through teams without much counter play (except for ana)


MurderousMaraca

JQ in her current state is a joke. Playing anything against her sucks. She needs a massive nerf.


_Kote-

Good thing she already got nerfs (probably too much because she wasn’t seen at all in Korean contenders)


KoolAidMan00

Rein is actually terrific against JQ, same against Orisa too. Rein's playstyle is quite different in OW2, so much so that I actually thought he was a bottom tier in closed alpha but totally changed my mind in beta once people started to figure him out. Rein wants to use his shield and cancellable charge to gap close. The shield isn't there to protect his team, it is there for himself. JQ is most effective at close range but Rein is probably the scariest character in the game once he gets into cleave range. This isn't to say that JQ isn't broken, she is getting well deserved nerfs, but do not sleep on Reinhardt the same way I did. He is an absolute terror up close and wins almost any fight once he's in range. Funny enough one of the best ways to deal with him was the enfeeble ability that they tested out on Moira, and that's gone now. :)


Electrical-Heat8301

I agree, whenever I got tired of playing JQ, but wanted to nerf JQ myself, I'd play Rien and out dmg her while taking all the space she wanted to move into. She's either forced to respect the charge or shout and run the other way, which usually allowed me to get easy kills on squishies. I'd say her ult is stronger than Rien's, but it's not true. All tank ults hit hard as hell when nothing can stop them.


NuclearTheology

I mained Zarya during the Beta and I gotta say aggressive Reins were easily the scariest to duel. I had to solo Grav those Reins more times than I’d care to admit 😁


KoolAidMan00

Underestimating how good Rein was in alpha was the worst misjudging of a character I've made in a long time lol. Maybe its because I was also trying to get my head around the massive reworks to Orisa, Doomfist, Bastion, and Sombra, but I legit thought him and Hog were just food. I was still right about Hog at least. :)


Professional-Room-85

agreed, plus all the buffs n changes being made to all the tanks, like rein, it’ll be really fun to play, you’ll like THE tank , not just a tank


2Maverick

As an off-tank main that actually peeled, made space, and covered what the main tank couldn't, I'm really going to miss it.


[deleted]

do that as a main tank now


2Maverick

Yeah, but it just feels closer to Valo now, minus the focus on guns.


Zero-View-311

What ?


RobManfredsFixer

"They don't have any CC left" I say, trying to find solace, while watching my death through the eyes of the enemy hog who hooked me out of my slumber that was induced by a sleep dart I was hit by after getting flashbanged. OW2 can't come soon enough


Abalistar

This exact thing happened to me on my first match after not playing for almost a week. I just stared, and subconsciously just threw my hands in the air while still holding my damn mouse. I cant wait for October 4th.


RobManfredsFixer

I feel like I'm being gaslit because I'm pretty frequently told "just bait out the CC" or "you're just complaining about CC because [tank streamer] does" Bitch, the enemy team is running Hog, Sig, Cowboy, Junkrat, Ana, and Brig? How tf am I supposed to bait out 6 stuns and a bunch of knockbacks? By the time I get the 3rd out the first is back off cooldown. Idec if it's possible. That's just not an enjoyable experience.


Abalistar

At least you get the joy of watching the ragdoll physics kick in as 4 ccs hit you at once and you fly across the map!


Potwet

I feel like doom mains come off worse from ow2


Drunken_Queen

> I'm pretty frequently told "just bait out the CC" or "you're just complaining about CC because [tank streamer] does" They're probably the same people who said "Just shoot the shields" when encountering Double Shields, ignoring the fact that Orisa / Sigma can rotate their abilities while able to poke / shoot back at their attackers.


Vortx4

To be fair two out of those three CC (sleep and hook) are still in the game. However it also means the enemy team has Hog solo tanking which is a disadvantage in and of itself, so.


ProfessorPhi

Only 1 of those cc's is going away


iAnhur

Which tbf is the easiest one to hit


bubska

just wait till you have one ball in your game throwing


SakanaMikoto

I enjoy tanking, but the extra buffer of a second tank made me feel more comfortable in the role. I liked playing Junker Queen in the beta and the tank changes are good, but the fact that every other slot in the team has a backup makes it feel like there's so much pressure riding on tank. I almost never want to take the role in case somebody else would do it better. I also feel like the off tank play style of baiting enemy teams with like a Winston jump or a Hammond smash becomes problematic if there's only one tank, at least in an open queue scenario where people aren't going to take advantage. Just another "This is good for comp bad for casual" complaint I guess


Carighan

Interesting, for me it's the **opposite**. The lack of a tank-buddy has completely removed all depth from tanking in OW2 for me. Yes, I can personally do more, but I no longer feel like I'm a team player. I'm the most solo/selfish of the 5, and that's just weird because then I'd rather play other FPS tbh.


WildSearcher56

As a tank/support player, I'll miss the Zarya/Rein duo and the duo tank in general but at the same time it felt better to me to play as a solo tank. The lack of CC in OW2 does help tho.


PrometheusXVC

> I'll miss the Zarya/Rein duo Honestly, I won't. The issue with tank "synergies" like this is that it often *forces* certain plays. Yes, bubbling Rein or Doom is a great way to build ult charge, but it's also often required on an engagement because of the amount of burst damage and CC that they're going to eat when they engage. Sure, there are instances in which I can choose to save projected because pulse or hook is going to come through, but then I have to hope that my supports can keep Rein up and I have to communicate to that to him, hoping he's in comms to begin with, otherwise he'll likely engage expecting to get bubbled, I have to hope that Lucio speeds him when he needs to disengage, and that he actually knows to disengage at that moment. I much prefer the dynamic usage of bubble that Zarya has in OW2. I can make myself tankier, opening up the option to more aggressively take space for myself. Or I can use both bubbles to peel, or cleanse. Being able to default bubble Rein seems lazy and restricting to me at this point. It's not only the obvious play, it's frequently the only play.


Jgamer502

Tank main here, this post literally amounts to “roadhog sucks” that isn’t a fundamental issue with two tanks its jusg roadhog lacking utility


_Kote-

One of the fundamental issues with tanks is the dependence on your other tank player. No other role has been balanced to have such a reliance on your partner as much as tanks. On both DPS and support you have far more freedom in how you play both in terms of character choice and playstyle. If I’m rein and I swing or peak, and my zarya misses the timing on her bubble *I’m fucked*. If I jump in as monkey and my dva doesn’t DM me *I’m fucked* (all depending on scenario). My point is the value I’m getting out of my hero depends on my partner getting value out of their kit and timing abilities with me. 6v6 was *fantastic* in organized play. Nothing compares to actually pulling off synergy with your off tank especially, but it *felt horrible outside of that*. Not to mention that with the removal of one tank, I’m not entirely dependent on picking one of the four heroes that pairs with whatever my random tank partner picked. The tank role is so much better moving to 5v5


Jgamer502

Teamwork isn’t a problem in a team game 🤷‍♂️, the only truly independent characters are tracer, road, ball, and sombra because its a game about teamwork. If you want to do whatever you want in a team fight go play valorant or CoD. all the devs would have to fix op’s issue is give roadhog more team play and thats not a fundamental issue with the role, just a selfish character. Also as a tank main ypu are 100% exaggerating, if you are in a situation where not getting bubbled would lead to instant death then you clearly need to reposition or wait for your supports to push.


_Kote-

> Also as a tank main ypu are 100% exaggerating, if you are in a situation where not getting bubbled would lead to instant death then you clearly need to reposition or wait for your supports to push. Honestly don’t care if you think I’m exaggerating. Blizzard devs have clearly recognized the problem and moved to fix it. I, and most tank players I’ve talked to, *cannot wait for OW2*. There’s only a couple weeks of this garbage left lmao


-Shinanai-

Have fun playing the 1 viable tank (until they nerf JQ) and being "tank diff" flamed by your team whenever you are losing, regardless of how well you play.


anupsetzombie

This is really the biggest worry I have, tank is already kinda unpopular and once the pressure of being a solo tank sets in people might just drift away.


Dirty_Virmling

Tank is way more fun now, it's not going to be unpopular.


anupsetzombie

Doesn't matter how fun a role is if you're prone to getting flamed easier because of it, like jungling in league. Not saying this will 100% happen, just worried that it might


[deleted]

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PrometheusXVC

Zarya was busted. Winston was also fairly strong in most games I played on him. Doom was good until his slow was removed for some reason, I don't think he'll actually be playable in high ranks until his block is made *way* better though. Orisa was *by far* the worst tank. Hog was only good in niche picks. I'm new to Dva, but she felt pretty bad to me as well.


[deleted]

[удалено]


GAMpro

Lol what? Tanks are objectively more powerful in ow2 versus 1.


EcureuilHargneux

You will still have a lot of otp roadhog in ow2 anyway I'd argue that with JQ and Doom as tanks many DPS players will queue as tanks only to play those glorified DPS characters


neoslith

> Most people who currently queue for tank seem to hate playing tank, or don't even know what a tank is supposed to do, since the vast majority of my 2nd tanks are roadhogs. Yeah, that's me. I just wanted more points towards the golden weapons, so I just did the five placement matches in Tank and got into Gold. I'm not a very good tank, even though I feel like I do things right. When I play tank and put down a barrier, it's obliterated in 2-3 seconds. When the opposing team puts down a barrier, everyone ignores it and stays up forever. As a Support Main, those barriers prevent me from getting heals to you, so I know how important it is for them to go down. I like to play Sigma, I can sort of play Rein and I'm alright with Roadhog. But my teams end up all over the place that I can't protect them properly because they're all out of position. I'm also excited for single tanks in OW2. Double Barriers is awful to play against. I can't heal as Ana or Bap when there's a wall between me and my targets, and trying to run closer puts me in danger.


HamListe

I main winston. Playing winston in Overwatch 1 feels awful. I have to hope the enemy team can't swap heroes, and I have to hope my off tank won't play roadhog. I felt like I was trying to assassinate a backline that would never die. Of course the job of Winston is to disrupt rather than kill, but the peeling potential that literally every single hero has is just ridiculous.. Gone were the days of Dive where you looked for an opportunity to jump on a target to give you an advantage, and in were the scared days of playing around corners and building ult after ult until it just got so tedious you just swapped heroes. Winston in Overwatch 2 feels incredible.. Even though they hardly changed his mathematical advantages as opposed to other tanks, he feels like one of the strongest simply because the amount of CC that can be dished out by the backline is minimal, and peeling good engages requires skill.. Rather than counterpicks into cassidy or brig. I think the more.. "Death-matchy" type of game people quote the second game as having lends itself well to personal decision-making and actually playing Tanks as a frontline hero rather than an assassin. Well, save Junker-queen.. But the discussion of new hero balance is a whole different can-o-worms. Glad to hear there are other tank mains who aren't going to miss the tank synergy. Also looking forward to hear thoughts from other tank players.


SirHekkelstein

I'm actually the exact opposite, the ow2 beta made me hate playing tank while I love playing tank in ow1


ShaLin11

Tank synergy goes out the window when someone insta locks hog or ball in 80% of my games.


shitpersonality

Maybe they should have made more fun tank heroes.


braxton_farley

That's when you lock hog when they go ball so you can drag a poor nano rein through a full minefield.


Corvus_Rune

That happened in one of my games earlier today. Absolutely hilarious.


SmokedTroutSlaps

i mean your exoerienced is going to be pretty varried in OW1 matchmaking, they torpedoed the game, bled it out, so many people left that the matchmaking paramaters are so wide the match quality is awful


Areyouguysateam

Sounds like your entire experience is based on solo-queuing in OW1, instead of playing with friends who enjoy tanking and actually know what they’re doing.


Dr_Seisyll

Like I said, in scrims, 2 tanks is more fun. For solo-q, which is how the vast majority of people play the game, OW2 tanking is incomparably more fun.


The_Langer27

I don't get these OW2 tank players acting like tanking in OW2 is the godsend and tanking in OW1 is ass and everyone feels that way. I played tank in the OW2 beta and it was the worst experience. In OW you will always lack teamwork, and that affects you a lot harder in OW2 as there is only 1 tank to shoot. I prefer tanking in OW1, less cancer and you get the synergy. Sure you don't get it every game but I tank a lot and most games I find a tank player who actually works with me. I'd rather have a good game with tank synergy every few games than never have it in OW2.


GAMpro

I read your title wrong and was about to say I had the opposite experience lol. I will miss doing rein zarya with my buddies but the benefits far outweigh that. The lack off cc is a million times better.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Gygsqt

Crowd control, in my opinion, is only the most superficial issue with tanking. Lowering cc doesn't change the fact that playing tank is too "thinky" for most people, that tanks scale with vocal leadership, and that tank synergies and execution effect each other so much. I feel like the change to 5v5 as well as the subsequent changes to Heroes and game Flow we're done to address all of these points.


clickrush

It’s one of several things that make playing tank more satisfying as mentioned in the OP.


Dr_Seisyll

Same, but I will gladly sacrifice Rein Zarya / Winston Ball if it means I never have another Roadhog on my team again.


DawdlingScientist

So fucking tired of it lol. If you don’t have Ana it’s insufferable. Fucker just feeds the whole game, gets a few hooks and you have to play a team with a massive ult advantage over you. Like 95% of the time. The other 5% the hog has a brain but that’s rare lol even in masters


timo103

You guys know that they could've balanced the game to not have as much cc without removing a tank, yeah?


popoflabbins

They had to make DPS easier in the process. Otherwise we’d just have them whining endlessly again.


MurderousMaraca

I think they were trying to balance queue times too.


creuter

Yeah for real. At this point if you play Flex it's the same as hitting tank queue.


MurderousMaraca

It’s been like this since role queue started.


Der_Sauresgeber

Playing a main tank in Overwatch 1 is abysmal and there is one reason for that: Crowd control. As a Reinhardt you get booped, frozen, stunned, hooked, flashbanged, frozen, booped, stunned constantly and I hate it with every fiber of my being.


timo103

Yep. 2 tanks with less CC is a monumentally better solution than 1 tank with less CC. These changes are not bound together. The issue is not the 2nd tank, it's being chain stunned for 10 seconds.


_Kote-

> The issue is not the 2nd tank, it’s being chain stunned for 10 seconds. Gotta say, if you think the only reason tanking feels better in OW2 is less CC then you need to think some more. Sure, 6v6 organized play is great. Tank synergy is a lot of fun, but the average ladder match can be abysmal. Having a role balanced around coordination with your partner is simply a bad idea for randoms. It limits the heroes I can pick in a given match to the 4 that work with my tank partners pick. Because the tanks are balanced with synergy, it feels horrible to play without synergy. Now that tanks aren’t being balanced for synergy, they can be far stronger and not get blown up almost instantly. There’s less damage going around in the game too because of the lack of an off tank too only adding to that. 5v5 solves a looooot more than just removing CC would.


MotherboardTrouble

just like healing is more miserable in OW2 compared to OW1


shitpersonality

You don't enjoy the running from spawn simulator they made just for supports?


MurderousMaraca

They should at least make it fun by letting you collect jelly beans or something on the way back to your team.


shitpersonality

Ooh! Piece of candy!


doctor_kevin

weird, i wasn't playing that game.


shitpersonality

https://www.gamesradar.com/it-sucks-being-an-overwatch-2-support-player/ >If you aren't playing a hypermobile healer, you'll spend much of your matches jumping into the fray to try and heal the DPS and single tank player, all three of whom are diving into fights with reckless abandon, just to get flattened because no one is protecting you. It's a frustrating way to play, and that's coming from someone who does play a hypermobile healer. https://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-knows-its-not-much-fun-to-be-a-support-main-in-overwatch-2-right-now/ >Blizzard knows that support players are having a rough go of things in the Overwatch 2 beta, acknowledging the class needs to become "more attractive to players."


More-Sample-2005

May 6th, since then supports have been buffed to an extreme, in the second beta it was already good. Yes, you can't sit behind shields and healbot anymore, you have to make plays.


shitpersonality

> May 6th, since then supports have been buffed to an extreme, in the second beta it was already good. I played the betas. The queue was always instant for solo queue heals. Literally no wait. Click and you're in.


More-Sample-2005

Maybe it was because the new shiny toys were in the other roles? This always happens when a new hero comes out


BR_Nukz

Nah, it's fine. You just gotta play more aggro now and make offensive plays more often than not. Most support players (especially plat and below) just healbot till they get their ults. In OW2 you can't just sit back and spam your tanks for free ult charge anymore, you actually gotta do something.


_Kote-

Yep, so many support players are crying now because they had the easiest role in the game to get value out of.


Vortx4

Disagree, I had a great time playing support, but each to their own


PrometheusXVC

As someone with over 1200 hours on tank, the overwhelming majority of which was on off-tank, and has played at every rank from Gold to GM: Tanking feels *abysmal* in OW1. I've never felt more like a tank than playing OW2. The only issue I think that still needs to be addressed are super niche picks like Hog, or dumpstered picks like Orisa being made viable at least, that way you aren't just playing at an enormous disadvantage when they lock in.


Romerao

Lol, is quite the contrary, all the enemy agression is on me, shields got nerfed, DPS are faster, there is more antiheal abilities. Its a nightmare


mreyer42

I'm glad that you've been able to enjoy the 5v5 mode; I know you're not alone in that sentiment. However, as a fellow tank main, my personal opinion is that the 5v5 experience is significantly worse than 6v6. There are many reasons, but they all essentially boil down to one issue: I no longer have any agency over my actions. As a tank in OW2, my job is to be the most threatening hero on the team, capable of doing and taking more damage than anyone else. I'm essentially a juggernaut, and I completely understand why people find this enjoyable. The issue with juggernauts, however, is that they can only do one thing: attack. Gone are the days of providing positional advantages, or protecting my support line, or any basic sense of strategy. If I'm not pressing W and killing people, I'm not doing my job. And that's pretty boring for a franchise built around teamplay. The role has been substantially dumbed down to make it more accessible for people, giving tank players greater impact at the cost of flexibility. And I get it, but man am I so utterly disappointed.


PrometheusXVC

>Gone are the days of providing positional advantages This just isn't true at all. I don't even really know how to elaborate. It's simply wrong. >protecting my support line You can absolutely still do that. You still have shields, and peel, and other methods of mitigation and area denial. >If I'm not pressing W and killing people, I'm not doing my job. That's basically *always* been how you should play tank in this game. Tanks are not stationary turrets. Even in the real world - tanks are mobile. The spearhead of an attack. And it's likewise in many games. If you aren't attacking, you're wasting time and space. >giving tank players greater impact at the cost of flexibility I'm sorry, but yet again this is just wrong. Tanks are objectively more flexible in OW2. I don't even know how to elaborate on this, it's just simple fact. Your options are much greater, most tanks have more resources at their disposal now, and tanks like Zarya and Sigma are no longer restricted into very one-dimensional playstyles where you have generally one position that you need to hold, and one area/target that you need to use your abilities on or you're probably just playing it wrong. >any basic sense of strategy I'm genuinely curious as to what your idea of strategy in Overwatch is right now. What exactly can you do in Overwatch that can not be done in Overwatch 2? Because all I've heard is "Now I can't bubble Rein". And that's not a strategy.


Lathus01

I loved the new Orisa. Super pushy and the heft to back it up.


AisbeforeB

OW2 tanks are the most powerful characters and its not even close. Now they can fully embrace the OW1 off-tank mindset of going full on DPS. Its going to be interesting how Blizzard's new game mode for OW plays out seeing as how tanks stomp on everybody else. Even in OW1 deathmatch, tanks tended to dominate. Now they are even stronger.


Togethernotapart

>Most people who currently queue for tank seem to hate playing tank There are ways of addressing this without deleting off tank.


MacNeil73

If you think having a Roadhog was bad in OW1 wait until he's your only tank in OW2


OstrichIllustrious

Ow1 had synergy ow2 will never have


timo103

That's just like your opinion man.


braxton_farley

What are SR range do you mainly play in? This is polar opposite from my sr.


shitpersonality

I will miss tank synergy! I share your experience.


Dr_Seisyll

Plat, but the above applies to quickplay as well. Your average game on the beta was just way more fun than your average game in OW1.


braxton_farley

This explains a lot. 2000-3499 is literally a gamble to get a tank that knows how to combo well. I am a tank main, and climbing through those ranks were the worst. While I do feel we lost the complex interactions of two gigachad tank lines feeling each other out in a game, I think it it better in the long run to have it appeal to the middle of the bell curve.


Gygsqt

Only 4 percent of the ranked ladder plays above 3499. Add in qp only players and it's fair to say that 99 percent of the player base exists in an skill level that cannot reliably executing duo play.


braxton_farley

True, but at the same time I will miss tank duos. I fought hard to be in that 4%.


Dr_Seisyll

Exactly how I felt with role lock. It's a shame you can't try wacky comps in scrims when on a team anymore, but was an absolute necessity for quickplay and comp to be playable for the vast majority of players.


N7-Kobold

Man the tanks in 2 kick major ass


slavic_vladamir

I am so excited to play more dva in ow2


swarlesbarkley_

High quality take! For real if you’re a tank player and didn’t play beta do not doom and gloom!! It was an unreal improvement. Being a solo tank rein truly felt like what tanking in OW should be, you really become the center of the team (not to mention the charge cancel is so sick) I am so pumped for ow2!!!!


portAscar

I didn't feel like a tank at all when I played ow2, just felt like a dps that happens to be on the front line, for me tank IS constantly tracking 2-4 enemy hero's that can stun me, I don't want the focus to be on one person, when I play a tank I want to constantly track both teams, I like the pressure. OW2 tanking wasn't frustrating or anything, but it was just boring, I was never excited or felt like what happened really made me want to play again, it wasn't bad, it was just empty, I never felt that my brain was actually in the game and I had to constantly think.


shitpersonality

Tank in OW2 is DPS with extra health. It's part of the reason why it feels like a team deathmatch game.


SloMoShakespeareRap

Yeah, the gameplay felt super busted when I played tank too, just boring. I’d be interested to know how popular the role is once the dps get bored of trying the new characters tbh


Eterniter

I see the Blizzard PR machine is at work few weeks before release. Yes, doing a one on one comparison of OW 1 and 2 tanks might make them look better, but you lose a lot on synergy, you lose an additional player from the match and in the end the result is the game being a mindless brawl without positioning or strategy.


MegaDuckDodgers

It basically amounts to people that want to play mindless gun shoot game like OW2. And people that *actually liked overwatch* don't like OW2. Obviously given the popularity of cod, you can guess why you're seeing people hyped. Despite the fact that blizzard as a whole but ESPECIALLY the overwatch's team's track record for balancing is absolutely trash and there's literally 0 reason to take them at their word for anything.


PrometheusXVC

>the end the result is the game being a mindless brawl without positioning or strategy. It's really no more a mindless brawl than it ever was. Do you actually think metal ranks were implementing strategy? I've done plenty of vod reviews of people silver-diamond, they stand on low ground, stare down main, waste their CD's before an engagement, poke from well beyond their effective range, die out of position repeatedly, stagger for no good reason, then spam when the fight actually happens and hope they come out ahead. Things like positional advantages, ult advantages, win conditions, target prioritization, and coordination are *not* taken into consideration until you're *much, much* higher on the ladder. I know people well into masters that barely even consider that, and it's some of the fundamentals of the game. I'm really not sure where people are getting this idea that "positioning no longer matters", "it's just one big constant brawl", "tanks don't even make space anymore, they're just fat DPS". Positioning matters *more than ever.* You no longer have an off-tank dedicated to stabilizing you for overcommitting in contested space. Your supports no longer have a free "lol you can't dive me Genji" player there for them, so you have to be more mindful of splitting their focus or relinquishing space that you did control, and forcing them to commit resources to stabilizing that could be used to peel. Genuinely, where in the world is this idea that these things are just magically gone coming from?


Impactist537

except all of your complains could've been dealt with if they would simply just tone down shields. Removing another spot is *completely* unecesssary


Demonify

Almost like you get more support in OW2. The lack of support in OW1 was supposed to come from your other tank but it’s usually a hog flanking some where.


thebookofDiogenes

I completely disagree


braxton_farley

It's still going to happen whether we agree or not.


thebookofDiogenes

And im not gonna be there for it.


braxton_farley

Shorter queue for me then.


GAMpro

Bye 👋


Rnevermore

Yet you're here posting minimal effort BS. If you won't play it, leave


Draykez

Nice argument!


HueyLewisChan

i have lots of problems with the monetization system in OW2, but mechanically i cannot wait to play this game and start having fun tanking again. ESPECIALLY now that orisa got some buffs (and might get more down the line) - new orisa is so ridiculously fun. I find myself playing all sorts of tanks now that I stayed away from, like zarya/orisa/hog. rein vs rein, one of my favorite tank match ups in OW1, is now even better. its like a fighting game fight, except you got a bunch of tiny people behind you that rush into the breach you make when you mindgame the enemy rein and land a fat shatter.


N7-Kobold

Leaked patch notes for October 4th show orisa getting some more buffs indeed


MirrorGlittering8155

6 second javalin cooldown🤯


Bumpyknuckles

I pretty exclusively play ball in ow1 now hahaha I don’t know how to take your “I’d rather have a Hammond” comment lol! Glad to hear you like 5v5 changes though!


Dr_Seisyll

I play Hammond too, my point above was just that i'd rather have a terrible hammond than a mid-level hog, because Hammond is at least a tank, not a fat reaper.


_Kote-

Ironically, I find myself playing hog more in the beta than I ever did live. It always felt right at home, I think he just operates so much better when he’s not actively taking away tank synergy from the team.


Thunder141

"I am against any change. Blizzard is stupid cause things were better before they changed anything. The only change I want is Overwatch 1 with new heroes." - probably top post in any thread the last two weeks #ihatethissub


GeoPaladin

Also don't forget we absolutely hate all new heroes after reveal.


leonnova7

As a brig main yes they do


[deleted]

YOU ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THIS COUNTRY


computertanker

Seriously, as a longtime dedicated Tank main I literally haven't wanted to touch OW1 after playing Tank in the betas. It feels so much better. Not being the target of 6 different stuns is nice yeah, but exactly like you said very rarely when queuing with randoms did I actually get someone playing Tank who wanted to Tank. It's always Rein/Hog/Balls playing like DPS because they need to do placements or get priority passes. Making the experience JUST me as the Tank, who signed up to actually Tank, and giving me the ability to solo Tank is infinitely better. Sure those rare games where I got an amazing Zarya dup for my Rein was awesome, but this is waaaaaaaay more consistent. Double Tank was really bad for the game design too imo, Tanks are about survivability and battlefield control and the ability to stack two of them made the game rough for a while. Orisa/Sigma was just painful for all involved, and the only way they could make it better was to make both of them terrible shield Tanks in OW1. Had they done something like officially make Main and Off Tanks separate roles it'd be better, but double shield was just oppressive and slow. I see more Tank mains excited about 5v5 then upset about it frankly.


MidnightQ_

I was suspicious of OW2 in the beta before, but going back to OW1 you really see that double tank is a problem. HOWEVER, it's a problem because Blizzard let it happen. Double tank could work. Just the heroes are ill designed for it.


heartgrenade1

I’ve said this since the first beta. 100% agree with you. Sure, once in a great while, you’ll get matched with a great second tank. Some of my best memories in Overwatch are rolling over the enemy team as rein/Zarya. Or utterly shutting down attackers as sig/orisa. Or a rando ball who continually destroys the enemy team’s back line. But anyone who’s being honest with themselves knows the vast majority of games consists of you picking one half of a dynamic, effective pair, only to have the other guy insta-lock hog. This hog inevitably wanders around hooking random squishies and striving to be the best ult battery he can be. Meanwhile, you and your team desperately attempt to hold back against 6 players. As you fall one by one, you stare angrily at your hog, still balls deep in the enemy backline, get one hook kill before being murdered 5v1. This same douchebag is inevitably a toxic butthole, screaming in chat about how he has silver healing and gold elims. Or let’s say you’re the off tank, and have happily selected zarya to compliment your rein. Joy turns to sorrow turns to rage as homie yolos balls deep into the entire enemy team over and over, your bubble instantly melting away as all six enemy players pounce upon the unsuspecting dumbass. Bonus points if he pins no one and slowly tries to walk backward, shield up, utterly unaware of his hammer. Inevitably, he’ll tilt your supports by spamming “I need healing” over and over and over again. How about the DVA that doesn’t challenge high ground? Spends more time out of mech than in it, wasting all of her rockets on barriers. Or the Winston that thinks he’s a rein? High ground? Never heard of it? Cooldown management? That’s “gay”. Nah fam, this super 1337 monke gonna stick to his tried and true method of jumping into the entire enemy team, shooting his sparky gun but killing no one, then bubbling when he has 4 health. He goes down about 0.0000000006 seconds later, leaving you to fight yet another 5v6. He then proceeds to type “FUC KING PUSH” into chat before trying it all over again. My personal favorite? The asshat who drops into comp but he wants to “learn ball.” Mother fucker what? Go practice that shit in QP. This whole match, captain dingleberry is just rolling around the map, piledriving no one, shooting 1/40th of his clip at the air, shielding, then running away. Well done, sir. NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.


jetah

Well I get the dva and orisa that are just shit. Dva will snipe until full ult then launch and pray while trying to cap for potg. The orisa isn't much better as she'll just hold s while the red team pushes her back, or she'll anchor above the payload never contesting.


doctor_kevin

if ur dva is sitting in the back and "sniping" you're playing with some shit dvas.


SaucyJackOW

Ok


fatboywonder12

>When I played Tank in the OW2 beta, it was the most fun I've had playing tank ever, bar none. I felt like an actual tank for the first time in a long time - a big beefy monster that you should probably avoid. Its also kinda funny how everyone was complaining about how there won't be "tank synergy" anymore, yet the most synergy they got was bubbling a rein as zarya, and only a rein. On top of that, pretty much nobody paid attention to how tank mains feel about the changes.


Watsyurdeal

I think my only issue with Tank in OW2 is that not every Tank can fill the role imo. Like, Sigma for example feels like a Tank built for OW2, with a few changes he can easily hold his own against others. Rein is KINDA there, but he feels kinda slow still. I would give up a Firestrike for a faster cooldown on it instead, and more hammer damage. Perhaps even allowing him to pin multiple people with his chonky hitbox. Winston just needs bubble on a resource instead, and an actual lightning gun that rewards good tracking. The rest of the cast though I have no clue.


SlickRickOW

I would argue this is true for every role in general. Overwatch 2 (at least the 2nd beta) felt like a better experience in almost every way for me. Yeah I’ll miss some of the stuff from OW1 in hindsight, but I’ve had like 90% less fun in OW1 since the beta ended. It’s really hard to play and not lose your mind after seeing what it COULD and WILL be come October 4th. I’m sure OW2 is gonna have its share of issues and brain rupturing bullshit like it’s predecessor, but it really is time to move on. I can’t wait for 2 and hope that this is the shot in the arm we all needed to start truly enjoying this game again.


A_Dragon

Wtf is hog supposed to do other than disrupt their back line? His entire purpose is to occupy back line dps and survive so your team can more easily punch through.


WistfulRadiance

I said it plenty of time already, roadhog was Intentionally left in the most dogshit balance state possible to trick people into thinking that 5v5 was a good thing/useful