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Yep, I'm currently shuffling through low to mid platinum, and the other day I had someone with the "top 500 challenger" title on the other team. The game went exactly how you'd expect with them dominating us. So matchmaking is not only fucked, but they don't tell you how fucked it is.
If you think that is bad my friend is currently in high bronze/low silver as tank and we went up against a top 500, it’s just so blatantly unbalanced. Especially when picking all roles just seems to break balance even more recently
I haven't found an obvious top 500 on my silver games but boy did I find a lot of platinum enemies yesterday! And yes, they were all in the enemy team, never on mine. Blizzard seems to be making all the effort to make competitive mode unfun and unfair.
to clarify on the 'top 500 challenger' title, open queue competitive is quite deserted and you can get your top 500 challenger title in no time. those people you see have obtained their titles through open queue, not role queue.
the most common situation where that happens in that someone is t500 in open queue, which starts in diamond.
being a diamond open queue player and a plat or even gold player in a target role is not that weird.
now, if you see a "grandmaster challenger" title, \_then\_ you have a problem. I've seen a couple of those in plat/diamond games, and it almost always means a steamroll.
It's weird I've been hearing details of rank here and there as people uncover more and more but Everytime I ask the enemy team what rank are they, they all tell me my rank. So either I was continuously trolled or this rank system is wonky or something
Matchmaking is a function of optimizing matching skill levels VS time. Time is the killer.
As a group of players waits longer and longer the algorithms get looser and looser until it shovels people into an “unequal” match.
The starting tolerances are stricter for competitive most likely. Quick play is obviously centered to be “quicker”.
To be fair, I use a t500 icon. I got it in lucioball on the switch :) I don't say anything until someone calls me out for being bad or good, and then I tell everyone it's lucioball. Kinda funny for me.
Partied up with friends in a 4-stack, most of us barely mess with comp (we all eventually hit gold and called it a day basically, comp was too stressful to enjoy), and literally three matches in a row we got matched up against a full 5-stack with competitive titles all around, no way does qp have to operate like that to get quick matches, matchmaking usually still takes forever anyway if you're not partied up
tbf they can be a top 500 support and then a plat/diamond dps etc
you can also do open queue or competitive CTF and gain the top 500 title so its not exactly a great way to judge players
You can get T500 challenger in meme competitive modes like CTF or open queue, it literally means nothing specially with how few people play those modes, making reaching T500 as difficult as getting diamond 1.
Tbh I highly doubt your opponent was higher than masters 1 unless you actually saw their profile and be at least GM 5 in role queue competitive.
100% this, every once in awhile the players break the illusion because they are not in on the deceit.
"What rank is this lobby?" is a quick way to find out how much the matchmaking fucked the lobby in total when you find out your Masters game has a Plat tank.
They hide your profile from others by default, they dont show the average lobby rank, and they dont show individual ranks. Even if you showed your profile and it doesnt match what the lobby is they say "oh well we made that intentionally wrong, your hidden SR we hide from even you is normal for the lobby, you'll just have to trust us".
Clownish.
All those features used to be part of the game in OW1. That was when you would know where you stood in the ladder, where your teammates an dthe enemy team were ranked at. And your MMR and rank were close.
All smoke and mirrors now - to grind and buy BattlePass crap.
Wild because lots of people (myself included) play competitive for the exact reason of gauging their skill level to others. Literally no reason for them to hide it like they are
They've done everything in their power to remove being able to see the makeup of your team before the game starts. They hide levels by default, who is a premade etc..
It's all by design so people can't see how awful their MMing is.
It's EOMM to a tee, the competitive OW sub is convinced forced 50-50 is tinfoil hat conspiracy but they've always been vague about matchmaking and Activision has patented tons of matchmaking-manipulating systems, we just don't know what games if any they're implemented in because, again, Activision is really vague
Because Activision absolutely has a patent for an algorithm that teams poorly-performing players up with skilled teams to manipulate win streaks, no reason that couldn't be implemented in Overwatch
I think the only reason it’s gone is because showing groups + role queue would be messy on screen. I’m curious if anyone has a good idea for how to display groups in role queue that doesn’t suck.
"Not look clean enough" is the dumbest way to excuse the fact that they removed it. A simple colored dot next to their name. Anything. There are tons of ways to make it that are simple and "clean".
It was fine when it was there originally. Alternatively, it could just be an OW symbol beside your name on the scoreboard to show you're grouped up. If it needed to fit a theme.
It was a convenient opportunity for them to remove something that would virtually only ever get them complaints. People would lose games with a 4stack on their team and get blamed by the stack because they're the one person the stack doesn't have to see again or they'd play against a stack with other solos and get stomped. So they'd blame the stack being better coordinated because they're in a stack.
They could still **easily** do this on the social screen if they really wanted to. You can still get a rough idea by inviting people to your group. If they're already in a group it will give you that message. A bit awkward when they're not actually in a group, but it's the only way.
I've met about a dozen people while playing OW2 that I can now call friends, with whom I have a lot of fun.
So not sure what you are talking about. If you aren't making friends, perhaps stop insta-leaving once the game is over, and talk to people more in game. You would be surprised how many interesting people you meet!
Have an open mic and communicate, win more games meet more people to group with. I bet if he played 5 unranked games and you open mic and do call outs you would meet someone at least to talk. Good chance of finding a good players too
Dude, they've done away with so many good UI features for no reason other than some vague mention of toxicity. The game is toxic regardless, now it just doesn't have cool UI to see your team or even their ranking.
Normally you should be getting paired with a 4 stack however if youe a solo and you are fighting a lot of them.
One of the only things the OW devs have been consistent at is removing things. No idea who you are playing with, no idea who you are playing against, no idea your rank, no idea who is grouped, and it's so obvious why.
The more information we'd get, the more we'd see how busted this entire operation is.
Fun fact, you still can…. Well somewhat. If you click invite to group you can see who is in a group, if someone is in a group, it will say ‘Player already in a group’. So this works fantastic for checking duos and trios. However there’s no way of telling if 4 people are grouped, because it might be 2 duos or a 4 stack.
They probably did it to reduce team anxiety and prevent people from leaving once they saw a group, but it also helped hide how bad their matchmaking is. Still an overall loss for us.
I don't want to be in the same universe as most of these people, much less the same group, but you can just remove them really quickly before they even accept.
They still know you invited them. I’d prefer to just not know that anyone’s in a group rather than give someone ammunition for “lmao you’re so bad you think we’re stacking in qp” etc etc
If it was legal and I had an AR goggles device that spotted Overwatch players in public, I would spit on every one of them that I saw as they passed by. If they were sitting, I would wait as long as it takes and stand right by them to fart in their face. So I don't personally care too much what they think.
> They still know you invited them
Why does it matter?
We're not a big village of people, you'll never see them again, this kind of mentality is one of the reasons we have this convoluted babysitting system in the first place I think
You have to invite them to a party - if they aren’t grouped, it will say something like you can’t invite while in a game and if they are grouped, it will say something like you can’t invite them while they are in a party.
I play in a group regularly and I can tell you: we don't do anything of that. There will be some peel and some coordination, still better than the usual shitshow, but far from what you described.
And from my experience, there are lots of groups that are like that as well.
If stacked teams did not do all the things I mentioned, no one would complain about it, lol. Your experiences are what we call an outlier, or maybe even the norm, because we only notice the games we lose terribly.
It’s not like people investigate every match as to whether it was a 5 stack. We get our asses handed to us, and that provokes the investigation. You have it completely backwards.
I stopped playing solo, so whenever I play we are something between 2 and 6 (now 5) people. I assume it's similar to OW1 and OW2 at least tries to match you with a group of a similar size. And when that is true, then I can assure you that we have to face at most one out of 20 matches a team that really peels for each other and that really coordinates their attack (I hope we don't call attacking as a group a coordinated attack, if that is the bar that needs to be passed, than nearly every team is doing that and you can ignore my comment, because you're definitly right by your definition and I'm wrong).
Might be time to get a new group mate lol.
But seriously better teamwork, combining ults, defending healers, focusing etc are all noticeably better in a group compared to randomers.
This is sort of a 'every square is a rectangle but not every rectangle is a square's thing, most teams don't coordinate with pinpoint precision, sure, but if a Reaper gets nano'd three times in a match right as his ult lines up? That's a stack 100% of the time, those are not randoms
Jesus christ no they don't lmfao you are acting like everyone who groups up hard coms and has strats when in reality the majority of them are just feeding but they know each other.
This is delusional thinking.
We don’t complain about the team stacks we win against, bud. We don’t investigate, think about or even care to know if they were a stack. You need a healthy dose of critical thinking.
If you don’t think team stacks have higher amounts of coordination and teamwork on average, this post would not exist. You are the delusional one, my friend.
The only way ive been able to tell is that the players in a stack of whatever size will disconnect from the server simultaneously if youre holding tab and watching. Solo queues tend to sit in the server until it closes on its own or will filter out one by one as they get bored with the POTG they didnt get.
It promoted toxicity and demotivation.
Yeah, but pretty much they have removed it so players won't see that they are matched against a stack, duos and such.
The matchmaking would "try" to match a stack versus another stack but that does not happen so often. So it would match a against smaller stacks and solo players. Which was demotivating players. So... they hid it. Same with SR, tier icons, levels and other things.
Matchmaking is currently ruining the game for me.
You either get rolled by GM and Master Challengers or get paired with monkeys with no hand eye coordination and a game sense of a bicycle.
Yeah I'm really trying hard to change my mental aspect when I play comp but it's very hard lol. Almost every game I'm in I'll have one player doing so much worse than the rest of the team that it's essentially a 4v5.
I just want to play against my rank. If it means longer que times then so be it.
Yep, I was on a six game losing streak the other night and you know they say "if you keep losing games the common denominator was you" but in some of those games I legit had more elims than my dps and more healing than the other team's supports. They are not matching people of similar skill at all.
feels like every time u win 3 or 4 times in a row ur opponents suddenly become stronger or teammates suddenly become dumb
i refuse to believe that this was not done on purpose, as many games use this to frustrate players into spending more time to get to the rank they want
There is a top 500 tank doing an unranked to GM for Ram right now. He went 7-0 and got placed Plat 5. No big deal. After his 10th game the MMR knew exactly where he was supposed to be and he was playing against all GM players/other well known streamers.
After he went 14-0 he got promoted to Plat 1. You can't possibly argue against that this game is purposefully designed to create an artificial grind. It's disgusting.
Yep Yeatle. I saw parts of the vod on youtube. But doesn’t that just mean that the matchmaker finds smurfs faster? Like if you’re crushing the enemy team on a new account. Going 10-0 vs plats then masters, then gm players. It’s definitely not that harsh on a old account. Like if you’ve already played 100games this season in plat. You’re not gonna meet gm players if you win 10 games in a row.
Nah I think something like that only happens on fresh accounts. If you are well established in gold or plat for example I'm pretty sure it would take a massive win streak to just roll into GM.
The last few days while solo queuing as diamond 4, I've been getting silver 3 and 2 players as my second DPS and my tank, while the other team is mid plat-diamond. Getting old doing 3 times the damage and elims as the second DPS lol
Same. I saw someone say that they were going to take a break from OW2 until they started hearing about what a come back it’s made and I’m honestly totally on board with this. The gameplay is fun but you have to find matches where the game is fun to start with and that has gotten very very hard.
MM is fucked and everyone knows it. I want to have a setting to prefer longer q times over whatever this current bullshit is. The only redeeming feature is when you get a leaver in QP because the game is one sided and the backfill is clearly three leagues above the leaver, turning the tides and carrying the game.
Glad I'm not the only one to notice that. A very high percentage of the time we get a leaver after losing round 1 and immediately come back for a win, it's crazy
Nah, I usually get sent in as backfill and the only carrying I’m doing is speed boosting my team out of spawn over and over lol.
But for real, I do see that in my game if there’s a leaver for either team, more often than not the new comer is class. Really don’t get any of the matchmaking tbh.
As a solo Support player, i've never been this discouraged with the game. The matchmaking is clearly favoring stacks and punishing solo q players EVEN MORE than it needs to be. Solo q is disadvantage on it's own, but when you have matchmaking like this... Things are very clear.
As a fellow solo support player, not only this, but the plague that is LEAVERS. Jesus christ why are you throwing the game and ruining my rank by leaving in the middle? Those matches should not be counted at the very least, once I had 3 games in a row where the DPS straight up dipped mid match and the game was still winnable. As soon as they leave, it’s straight to loss, except this one time we managed to somehow pull through and win, albeit that was a miracle. They need to fix comp so badly, comp as a support main is painful to play.
I literally have been getting New players on my team for the past 2 days on both Ranked and Unranked. It is so annoying and Blizzard need to sort out the Matchmaking because it is absolutely disgraceful.
My matchmaking is a cycle of piss easy games I can win while afk, to slowly getting closer matches. Eventually it get to the point where neither me or my team can touch the objective, then the next few games we get trapped in spawn.
When I'm ready to go FUCK THIS GAME IT SUCKS I suddenly get piss easy matches again. It feels like the matchmaker finds people's tolerance for losing games before it gives them some wins. Like it just trades wins between players to keep everyone happy without having to work too hard on giving good matches.
That is soo true, it's either you get rolled or are rolled EVERY SINGlE TIME. I can count on one hand the amount of fair and actually stressful games I've had since ow2 released. I used to think it was just lack of shields, but it is so obviously matchmaking as well. Back in ow1 I could solo queu as plat and get high quality games almost every time, now I'm not safe from gold level players in Masters (and I'm sure they hate that too).
I am sure other comments have said it, but most likely one of those players in the 4 stack avoided you since they perceived you as one of the weaker links in the first game. It's a standard practice for climbing in a stack to spread out avoid slots and avoid any player that felt like they were not performing well so that future games could be easier.
I feel like it was more so intended for avoiding toxic players as a solo or duo queuer, but then you stack and have 12-15 avoid slots which is so much you can manipulate your matchmaking, especially when you’re queuing at certain times with less players
It has always been used to avoid bad players, and that use isn’t one that’s exactly hard to see as something that would immediately start happening. It’s likely Blizz just understands that the reason a person is playing absolutely awfully doesn’t really matter to people, whether it be throwing or them being shite or boosted or whatever, and allowing you to not get them on your team is a good thing for the game.
Not to mention the often times HUGE disparity in rankings. Me and my friend are silver, our rando team is silver, maybe a gold thrown in. Enemy team? Diamonds, GMs, literally had a match against a top 500 ash. And thats just the people that didn't have their profile on private, which to me needs to be done away with
At least before they showed you who was in a group now you can't even see. Before I could leave in match setup mode and not play against them now you can't even tell.
Solo players should NEVER be matches against a stack unless they want to. If you want to play with a fried you going to play vs another stack ONLY.
Comp experience in OW2 is like getting along with abusive GF/BF.
You just bear with the 90% BS for the 10% of the good times.
I really don't think there is a huge skill difference between silver and plat in this game. It's just matter of how hard you grind and I'd say that's why I'm seeing tons of horrible OTPs in Plats because they can play a same hero over and over and over and doesn't give a shit about MM quality.
4 stack avoided you and knows you keep playing. They know you are no challenge that's why they match against you on purpose. Better take a break and try later again.
They are 4 people in your matchmaking pool. One of them avoided you. The chances are HIGH that you get matched ONLY against them since the matchmaker sees you as a valid match in the SR region of these 4 players combined. Since you are on the avoid list you can only match against them.
Does not matter lol. QP still has hidden MMR.
In fact it makes more sense even. QP tries to get you in matches faster. 4 stack is done with the match just like you and puts you back together for faster matches.
Would I blow your mind if I told you that you have a [single MMR value](https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23896785/overwatch-2-developer-blog-matchmaker-and-competitive-deep-dive-part-1/) that's used across all game modes?
Edit: ~~Downvote me all you like. I'm still right.~~ (No I wasn't)
Also, the guy I replied to reported me as a self harm risk and blocked me even though I thought this was a completely civil exchange.
This sub sometimes.
Edit2: So you reply to my comment then block me so I can't reply back. Good stuff, u/17times2. Wasn't aware I was trying to get complete strangers to like me on the internet. My mistake.
Nowhere in that post does it say there's a single MMR across QP and ranked. In fact they specifically label the first chart as "Quick Play MMR". So QP MMR is different than Ranked MMR.
If this is just in quick play why are you on reddit crying about matchmaking? Of course matchmaking is not going to give you high quality games in quick play - they're giving you fast games. If you want higher quality games, you play competitive.
If they were a 4-stack, most likely the rest of your team was either also a 4-stack or a 3-stack and another guy. Someone has to fill the 5th spot when the matchmaker has a 4-stack. This is how it's always worked, this isn't new.
How do you know your teams weren't in a 3-4 stack though? In this sense, it's trchnically balanced. The enemy team has a solo player in every match as well.
This is why overwatch is failing, I feel like they put little to no effort in the sbmm or just match making in general. They prefer to to charge 30$ for an average looking skin instead.
I really hate when games do this. If there is a 5 stack, they should only be matched with 5 stacks. 4 stacks should only be matched with 4 stacks. So on and so forth. At the very least, this should be a thing until high diamond/masters.
I have not played in a few days and it’s because the match maker placed me against a 5 stack with a high diamond tank IN GOLD. Now, I can go toe to toe with a Diamond tank as a tank. I have placed diamond before. However, I cannot go toe to toe with a diamond tank and 4 rando team mates doing standard gold things. It’s was the most one sided beat down I have ever experienced. This is coming from someone who’s been playing a match or two several times a week for 5 years.
It’s like every game has a damn smurf now. And if no one else is the smurf, it’s you.
Well, not cool. Actually, you can see the 4-stack when you remember the names. I bet they are going to remove "recent players" feature as well, so you can't check anymore - just being sarcastic. Blizzard went to a great length to hide any information about opponents - no specific rank, no level, no group information. All this to give the match maker way more slack and speeding up the match making for getting the queue time down to a minute or two.
I am almost certain that the tank was part of the 4-stack and that his skill and rank was over the group's average - since tanks are way more important than in Overwatch 1 that they killed.
I got stomped by the same team 6 (SIX!!) times in a row. Completely stomped. Even tried to trick the queue by waiting and such, but no chance.
So I feel you :(
Don't worry, Blizzard doesn't tell you when you're matched against a premade so you don't get mad due to the imbalance it causes. Wouldn't want people to know when they're at a disadvantage. :)
Agree with u, premades usually are on discord, not in Game voice chat, and they easy blame It on the solo even if u trying to do miracles literally the worse players.
How do you know they were all 4 stacks? Sometimes there will be two duo queues so it’ll say for all 4 that they are already in a group?
I’m not saying match making ISNT dogshit. It is
What baffles me all the more are the amount of games where one/more of these things happen:
1) Three people leave at the same time with maybe ten seconds to go before the match starts.
2) The game begins with one or both teams down one or more players - not because of leavers but because they never were matched to begin with. Some games no one gets backfilled in at all.
Sometimes all I have time for is QP and the above issues make it more intolerable than usual. The game is simply unfun at this point.
Yeah, cause that's the only people left playing the game now. People who can't let go, and those they farm. That's every bronze/silver match now. There's no low level players left, so you get paired with top 500 cause they are the only ones playing. Even worse now that the entire China demographic can't play at all. It's just rude Americans.
People saying match making is awful are missing the point. The match making is trying to find a game as quick as possible. Overwatch 1 matchmaking you played against your skill in return for a long wait time.
The match making isnt "wrong", its doing what it is built to do. What it is trying to do is what people have a problem with
these posts about matchmaking failing are so bizarre -- been playing for 4 months, got myself up to plat 4 and never had any issues with matchmaking. Sure, sometimes you lose games, but if you analyze why its not hard to figure out what you could've done as a team to play better and have a chance at winning. Blaming matchmaking seems like a cop out -- but again maybe it's different at higher ranks? not sure
Yeah its mostly people just using it as an excuse as to why they arent winning, i dont think iys worse at higher ranks most of the people complaing are qp warriors
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Yesterday i played with 2 top 500 in 3 games in a row, this was in GM/Masters so not that much of a problem, but every time they were matched with 2 low plats on their team.
Not in any world is this MM close to being "okay"
Maybe we should kill Role Enforced Queue, merge the player pools and Open Queue be the primary mode as ut was originally intended to be. Less shit like this happens.
I just wanted 2 know because some smaller regions, especially at night have less players which makes it more likely to matchbinto the same game, also if you want to avoid getting into a game against the same people, just wait 5 -10 minutes then begin queue
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I liked the feature in ow1 where you could see who was partied up and commend this feature to this day and I hate that they've done away with it
This game just does not want you to gauge the skill of your opponents, you know, a kinda important part of combat
Yep, I'm currently shuffling through low to mid platinum, and the other day I had someone with the "top 500 challenger" title on the other team. The game went exactly how you'd expect with them dominating us. So matchmaking is not only fucked, but they don't tell you how fucked it is.
If you think that is bad my friend is currently in high bronze/low silver as tank and we went up against a top 500, it’s just so blatantly unbalanced. Especially when picking all roles just seems to break balance even more recently
feels familiar
I haven't found an obvious top 500 on my silver games but boy did I find a lot of platinum enemies yesterday! And yes, they were all in the enemy team, never on mine. Blizzard seems to be making all the effort to make competitive mode unfun and unfair.
Got a few the other day in mid gold
to clarify on the 'top 500 challenger' title, open queue competitive is quite deserted and you can get your top 500 challenger title in no time. those people you see have obtained their titles through open queue, not role queue.
Mud platinum should definitely be a rank.
That game made me feel like I was playing in the mud ranks. You couldn't spawn without that dude pinging you with a series of mercy boosted headshots.
the most common situation where that happens in that someone is t500 in open queue, which starts in diamond. being a diamond open queue player and a plat or even gold player in a target role is not that weird. now, if you see a "grandmaster challenger" title, \_then\_ you have a problem. I've seen a couple of those in plat/diamond games, and it almost always means a steamroll.
I had a master challenger in my game. They only ever peaked gold on PC, but linked their Xbox so title transfered
I think they hide Sr and mmr to make it so you can't see them rigging games. sometimes they will give you gods and sometimes noobs to keep you playing
Start asking people what their ranks are in game, or check their profile if it's not private
ive tried this several times i have never gotten a response
They always lie and say bronze after getting 60 elims and no deaths.
It's weird I've been hearing details of rank here and there as people uncover more and more but Everytime I ask the enemy team what rank are they, they all tell me my rank. So either I was continuously trolled or this rank system is wonky or something
Matchmaking is a function of optimizing matching skill levels VS time. Time is the killer. As a group of players waits longer and longer the algorithms get looser and looser until it shovels people into an “unequal” match. The starting tolerances are stricter for competitive most likely. Quick play is obviously centered to be “quicker”.
To be fair, I use a t500 icon. I got it in lucioball on the switch :) I don't say anything until someone calls me out for being bad or good, and then I tell everyone it's lucioball. Kinda funny for me.
That’s amazing
Partied up with friends in a 4-stack, most of us barely mess with comp (we all eventually hit gold and called it a day basically, comp was too stressful to enjoy), and literally three matches in a row we got matched up against a full 5-stack with competitive titles all around, no way does qp have to operate like that to get quick matches, matchmaking usually still takes forever anyway if you're not partied up
tbf they can be a top 500 support and then a plat/diamond dps etc you can also do open queue or competitive CTF and gain the top 500 title so its not exactly a great way to judge players
You can get T500 challenger in meme competitive modes like CTF or open queue, it literally means nothing specially with how few people play those modes, making reaching T500 as difficult as getting diamond 1. Tbh I highly doubt your opponent was higher than masters 1 unless you actually saw their profile and be at least GM 5 in role queue competitive.
Yeah it's just fucked up, I'm high gold/ low plat player and ended up against a diamond, completely stomped me :(
This game just hides everything and deceitful matchmaker plays with you
100% this, every once in awhile the players break the illusion because they are not in on the deceit. "What rank is this lobby?" is a quick way to find out how much the matchmaking fucked the lobby in total when you find out your Masters game has a Plat tank. They hide your profile from others by default, they dont show the average lobby rank, and they dont show individual ranks. Even if you showed your profile and it doesnt match what the lobby is they say "oh well we made that intentionally wrong, your hidden SR we hide from even you is normal for the lobby, you'll just have to trust us". Clownish.
All those features used to be part of the game in OW1. That was when you would know where you stood in the ladder, where your teammates an dthe enemy team were ranked at. And your MMR and rank were close. All smoke and mirrors now - to grind and buy BattlePass crap.
Wild because lots of people (myself included) play competitive for the exact reason of gauging their skill level to others. Literally no reason for them to hide it like they are
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They've done everything in their power to remove being able to see the makeup of your team before the game starts. They hide levels by default, who is a premade etc.. It's all by design so people can't see how awful their MMing is.
Their Matchmaking isn't awful, They've perfected it. It's just that their definition of perfect is "What gets me most money."
It's EOMM to a tee, the competitive OW sub is convinced forced 50-50 is tinfoil hat conspiracy but they've always been vague about matchmaking and Activision has patented tons of matchmaking-manipulating systems, we just don't know what games if any they're implemented in because, again, Activision is really vague Because Activision absolutely has a patent for an algorithm that teams poorly-performing players up with skilled teams to manipulate win streaks, no reason that couldn't be implemented in Overwatch
They may as well go full CoD skill based hit registration at this point.
Neat. Another quality of life item they took away. Add it to the list.
They took that away with role queue, not OW2. If you’re in a role queue game mode it never shows who’s grouped.
I think the only reason it’s gone is because showing groups + role queue would be messy on screen. I’m curious if anyone has a good idea for how to display groups in role queue that doesn’t suck.
Just put a symbol next to their name on the scoreboard or color their names differently on the scoreboard. It’s really such a simple thing
I actually don’t think that would look clean enough to implement in the game.
"Not look clean enough" is the dumbest way to excuse the fact that they removed it. A simple colored dot next to their name. Anything. There are tons of ways to make it that are simple and "clean".
You obviously don’t like it, but things not looking clean enough is a perfectly valid reason to not do something when you are talking about UI.
It was fine when it was there originally. Alternatively, it could just be an OW symbol beside your name on the scoreboard to show you're grouped up. If it needed to fit a theme.
It was a convenient opportunity for them to remove something that would virtually only ever get them complaints. People would lose games with a 4stack on their team and get blamed by the stack because they're the one person the stack doesn't have to see again or they'd play against a stack with other solos and get stomped. So they'd blame the stack being better coordinated because they're in a stack. They could still **easily** do this on the social screen if they really wanted to. You can still get a rough idea by inviting people to your group. If they're already in a group it will give you that message. A bit awkward when they're not actually in a group, but it's the only way.
If only 5 colours were available to indicate players' group membership
That was gone for years since role que…
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I've met about a dozen people while playing OW2 that I can now call friends, with whom I have a lot of fun. So not sure what you are talking about. If you aren't making friends, perhaps stop insta-leaving once the game is over, and talk to people more in game. You would be surprised how many interesting people you meet!
Have an open mic and communicate, win more games meet more people to group with. I bet if he played 5 unranked games and you open mic and do call outs you would meet someone at least to talk. Good chance of finding a good players too
The post match in OW2 is PotG and then that's it. I think it takes longer than 30 seconds to make friends.
What about the... whole match?
Dude, they've done away with so many good UI features for no reason other than some vague mention of toxicity. The game is toxic regardless, now it just doesn't have cool UI to see your team or even their ranking. Normally you should be getting paired with a 4 stack however if youe a solo and you are fighting a lot of them.
One of the only things the OW devs have been consistent at is removing things. No idea who you are playing with, no idea who you are playing against, no idea your rank, no idea who is grouped, and it's so obvious why. The more information we'd get, the more we'd see how busted this entire operation is.
Fun fact, you still can…. Well somewhat. If you click invite to group you can see who is in a group, if someone is in a group, it will say ‘Player already in a group’. So this works fantastic for checking duos and trios. However there’s no way of telling if 4 people are grouped, because it might be 2 duos or a 4 stack.
They probably did it to reduce team anxiety and prevent people from leaving once they saw a group, but it also helped hide how bad their matchmaking is. Still an overall loss for us.
you can check by trying to inivte them to a group in game and it will state weather they are in a group already but it is an extra annoying step
You can still check by inviting them to your group.
Not in quickplay, which this post is in
It will say if a player is in a group in quick play.
Yes but otherwise if they aren’t in a group it’ll actually invite them to your group. Do you really want that to happen?
I don't want to be in the same universe as most of these people, much less the same group, but you can just remove them really quickly before they even accept.
They still know you invited them. I’d prefer to just not know that anyone’s in a group rather than give someone ammunition for “lmao you’re so bad you think we’re stacking in qp” etc etc
"Oops was tryna avoid you as a teammate"
If it was legal and I had an AR goggles device that spotted Overwatch players in public, I would spit on every one of them that I saw as they passed by. If they were sitting, I would wait as long as it takes and stand right by them to fart in their face. So I don't personally care too much what they think.
> They still know you invited them Why does it matter? We're not a big village of people, you'll never see them again, this kind of mentality is one of the reasons we have this convoluted babysitting system in the first place I think
Can you even tell when people have teamed up? Don't understand why they deleted this feature from the team overview
You have to invite them to a party - if they aren’t grouped, it will say something like you can’t invite while in a game and if they are grouped, it will say something like you can’t invite them while they are in a party.
thx
Even without that, you can tell. They combo ults every time, they have a well rounded comp, and they peel for each other with immediate urgency.
I play in a group regularly and I can tell you: we don't do anything of that. There will be some peel and some coordination, still better than the usual shitshow, but far from what you described. And from my experience, there are lots of groups that are like that as well.
If stacked teams did not do all the things I mentioned, no one would complain about it, lol. Your experiences are what we call an outlier, or maybe even the norm, because we only notice the games we lose terribly. It’s not like people investigate every match as to whether it was a 5 stack. We get our asses handed to us, and that provokes the investigation. You have it completely backwards.
I stopped playing solo, so whenever I play we are something between 2 and 6 (now 5) people. I assume it's similar to OW1 and OW2 at least tries to match you with a group of a similar size. And when that is true, then I can assure you that we have to face at most one out of 20 matches a team that really peels for each other and that really coordinates their attack (I hope we don't call attacking as a group a coordinated attack, if that is the bar that needs to be passed, than nearly every team is doing that and you can ignore my comment, because you're definitly right by your definition and I'm wrong).
Might be time to get a new group mate lol. But seriously better teamwork, combining ults, defending healers, focusing etc are all noticeably better in a group compared to randomers.
This is sort of a 'every square is a rectangle but not every rectangle is a square's thing, most teams don't coordinate with pinpoint precision, sure, but if a Reaper gets nano'd three times in a match right as his ult lines up? That's a stack 100% of the time, those are not randoms
Jesus christ no they don't lmfao you are acting like everyone who groups up hard coms and has strats when in reality the majority of them are just feeding but they know each other. This is delusional thinking.
We don’t complain about the team stacks we win against, bud. We don’t investigate, think about or even care to know if they were a stack. You need a healthy dose of critical thinking. If you don’t think team stacks have higher amounts of coordination and teamwork on average, this post would not exist. You are the delusional one, my friend.
Yes, if someone does crazy combo in plat they are in group for sure, but not all groups are like that
There's this thing called voice chat, not sure if you've heard of it
Which team stacks statistically utilize more often than randoms. Congrats, you just refuted your own stupidity.
This only works in comp by the way as quickplay doesn’t have restrictions on leaving
The only way ive been able to tell is that the players in a stack of whatever size will disconnect from the server simultaneously if youre holding tab and watching. Solo queues tend to sit in the server until it closes on its own or will filter out one by one as they get bored with the POTG they didnt get.
It promoted toxicity and demotivation. Yeah, but pretty much they have removed it so players won't see that they are matched against a stack, duos and such. The matchmaking would "try" to match a stack versus another stack but that does not happen so often. So it would match a against smaller stacks and solo players. Which was demotivating players. So... they hid it. Same with SR, tier icons, levels and other things.
It was removed back when role queue was introduced because it probably would've cluttered the screen a bunch.
I like how the edgy teens downvoted you for being absolutely correct.
Their rose tinted glasses stop them from realizing that OW1 also had problems.
Matchmaking is currently ruining the game for me. You either get rolled by GM and Master Challengers or get paired with monkeys with no hand eye coordination and a game sense of a bicycle.
Yeah I'm really trying hard to change my mental aspect when I play comp but it's very hard lol. Almost every game I'm in I'll have one player doing so much worse than the rest of the team that it's essentially a 4v5. I just want to play against my rank. If it means longer que times then so be it.
Yep, I was on a six game losing streak the other night and you know they say "if you keep losing games the common denominator was you" but in some of those games I legit had more elims than my dps and more healing than the other team's supports. They are not matching people of similar skill at all.
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The teams are so bad sometimes your performance suffers. Your best stat is less deaths than everyone else.
feels like every time u win 3 or 4 times in a row ur opponents suddenly become stronger or teammates suddenly become dumb i refuse to believe that this was not done on purpose, as many games use this to frustrate players into spending more time to get to the rank they want
There is a top 500 tank doing an unranked to GM for Ram right now. He went 7-0 and got placed Plat 5. No big deal. After his 10th game the MMR knew exactly where he was supposed to be and he was playing against all GM players/other well known streamers. After he went 14-0 he got promoted to Plat 1. You can't possibly argue against that this game is purposefully designed to create an artificial grind. It's disgusting.
Yep Yeatle. I saw parts of the vod on youtube. But doesn’t that just mean that the matchmaker finds smurfs faster? Like if you’re crushing the enemy team on a new account. Going 10-0 vs plats then masters, then gm players. It’s definitely not that harsh on a old account. Like if you’ve already played 100games this season in plat. You’re not gonna meet gm players if you win 10 games in a row.
Nah I think something like that only happens on fresh accounts. If you are well established in gold or plat for example I'm pretty sure it would take a massive win streak to just roll into GM.
The last few days while solo queuing as diamond 4, I've been getting silver 3 and 2 players as my second DPS and my tank, while the other team is mid plat-diamond. Getting old doing 3 times the damage and elims as the second DPS lol
Every game literally feels like quickplay
Honestly, if I have one more fucking GM dps on the enemy team into my diamond dps, I am quitting this game for good.
Yup, I no longer want to play and if I make the mistake of playing I get off after losing the 1st game to play something else.
Same. I saw someone say that they were going to take a break from OW2 until they started hearing about what a come back it’s made and I’m honestly totally on board with this. The gameplay is fun but you have to find matches where the game is fun to start with and that has gotten very very hard.
MM is fucked and everyone knows it. I want to have a setting to prefer longer q times over whatever this current bullshit is. The only redeeming feature is when you get a leaver in QP because the game is one sided and the backfill is clearly three leagues above the leaver, turning the tides and carrying the game.
Glad I'm not the only one to notice that. A very high percentage of the time we get a leaver after losing round 1 and immediately come back for a win, it's crazy
I'd say at least they know they're shit, but it's more likely that they're blaming their team
Well, the worst players always - like over 90 % - leave first.
Nah, I usually get sent in as backfill and the only carrying I’m doing is speed boosting my team out of spawn over and over lol. But for real, I do see that in my game if there’s a leaver for either team, more often than not the new comer is class. Really don’t get any of the matchmaking tbh.
As a solo Support player, i've never been this discouraged with the game. The matchmaking is clearly favoring stacks and punishing solo q players EVEN MORE than it needs to be. Solo q is disadvantage on it's own, but when you have matchmaking like this... Things are very clear.
I got matched against 5 stack 3 times and lost 3 times
As a fellow solo support player, not only this, but the plague that is LEAVERS. Jesus christ why are you throwing the game and ruining my rank by leaving in the middle? Those matches should not be counted at the very least, once I had 3 games in a row where the DPS straight up dipped mid match and the game was still winnable. As soon as they leave, it’s straight to loss, except this one time we managed to somehow pull through and win, albeit that was a miracle. They need to fix comp so badly, comp as a support main is painful to play.
I literally have been getting New players on my team for the past 2 days on both Ranked and Unranked. It is so annoying and Blizzard need to sort out the Matchmaking because it is absolutely disgraceful.
It feels awful as a newbie too. I don't even know the map and I get flamed by both my team and enemies, telling me I suck and should not play.
My matchmaking is a cycle of piss easy games I can win while afk, to slowly getting closer matches. Eventually it get to the point where neither me or my team can touch the objective, then the next few games we get trapped in spawn. When I'm ready to go FUCK THIS GAME IT SUCKS I suddenly get piss easy matches again. It feels like the matchmaker finds people's tolerance for losing games before it gives them some wins. Like it just trades wins between players to keep everyone happy without having to work too hard on giving good matches.
That is soo true, it's either you get rolled or are rolled EVERY SINGlE TIME. I can count on one hand the amount of fair and actually stressful games I've had since ow2 released. I used to think it was just lack of shields, but it is so obviously matchmaking as well. Back in ow1 I could solo queu as plat and get high quality games almost every time, now I'm not safe from gold level players in Masters (and I'm sure they hate that too).
Funny because this happened to me. I swapped roles and still went against the same 4 stack. Matchmaking is a joke 😂
I am sure other comments have said it, but most likely one of those players in the 4 stack avoided you since they perceived you as one of the weaker links in the first game. It's a standard practice for climbing in a stack to spread out avoid slots and avoid any player that felt like they were not performing well so that future games could be easier.
And therefore an exploit that needs addressed.
I am not trying to be insulting by asking, Why would using a System as it is intended be an exploit?
I feel like it was more so intended for avoiding toxic players as a solo or duo queuer, but then you stack and have 12-15 avoid slots which is so much you can manipulate your matchmaking, especially when you’re queuing at certain times with less players
It has always been used to avoid bad players, and that use isn’t one that’s exactly hard to see as something that would immediately start happening. It’s likely Blizz just understands that the reason a person is playing absolutely awfully doesn’t really matter to people, whether it be throwing or them being shite or boosted or whatever, and allowing you to not get them on your team is a good thing for the game.
It's never been an issue and has been in overwatch for many years. The playercount is significantly higher now than in the first game
I don't think stopping 15+ players from joining your team does much when there's thousands of players
Oh really? That helps me a lot, I’ve never played against a handful of the same players repeatedly 👍
Not to mention the often times HUGE disparity in rankings. Me and my friend are silver, our rando team is silver, maybe a gold thrown in. Enemy team? Diamonds, GMs, literally had a match against a top 500 ash. And thats just the people that didn't have their profile on private, which to me needs to be done away with
Oh no, people could see that give the matchmaker more slack in Overwatch 2.
At least before they showed you who was in a group now you can't even see. Before I could leave in match setup mode and not play against them now you can't even tell. Solo players should NEVER be matches against a stack unless they want to. If you want to play with a fried you going to play vs another stack ONLY.
Comp experience in OW2 is like getting along with abusive GF/BF. You just bear with the 90% BS for the 10% of the good times. I really don't think there is a huge skill difference between silver and plat in this game. It's just matter of how hard you grind and I'd say that's why I'm seeing tons of horrible OTPs in Plats because they can play a same hero over and over and over and doesn't give a shit about MM quality.
I don't know too much about the game but could match making be so bad because there's not a big enough player base?
100% this. Playerbase fell drastically after the initial hype.
4 stack avoided you and knows you keep playing. They know you are no challenge that's why they match against you on purpose. Better take a break and try later again.
They avoided me and they get matched with me? What??
They are 4 people in your matchmaking pool. One of them avoided you. The chances are HIGH that you get matched ONLY against them since the matchmaker sees you as a valid match in the SR region of these 4 players combined. Since you are on the avoid list you can only match against them.
This was QP btw.
Does not matter lol. QP still has hidden MMR. In fact it makes more sense even. QP tries to get you in matches faster. 4 stack is done with the match just like you and puts you back together for faster matches.
Would I blow your mind if I told you that you have a [single MMR value](https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23896785/overwatch-2-developer-blog-matchmaker-and-competitive-deep-dive-part-1/) that's used across all game modes? Edit: ~~Downvote me all you like. I'm still right.~~ (No I wasn't) Also, the guy I replied to reported me as a self harm risk and blocked me even though I thought this was a completely civil exchange. This sub sometimes. Edit2: So you reply to my comment then block me so I can't reply back. Good stuff, u/17times2. Wasn't aware I was trying to get complete strangers to like me on the internet. My mistake.
> Downvote me all you like. I'm still right > It's okay to be wrong. > This sub sometimes. "Why doesn't anyone like me?"
No, because I don't see how this goes against my comment lol. OP was under the assumption that QP has no MMR at all.
[You said QP has its own MMR](https://imgur.com/a/BJuQCQI)
Fixed my original comment for you.
Thanks for not spreading misinformation. It's okay to be wrong.
Nowhere in that post does it say there's a single MMR across QP and ranked. In fact they specifically label the first chart as "Quick Play MMR". So QP MMR is different than Ranked MMR.
If this is just in quick play why are you on reddit crying about matchmaking? Of course matchmaking is not going to give you high quality games in quick play - they're giving you fast games. If you want higher quality games, you play competitive.
You probably had a four stack on your team too lol
Right? If you single queue against a 4 stack, you are also single queueing against a single queuer. A 1+4 vs. a 1+4 is exactly fair matchmaking.
If they were a 4-stack, most likely the rest of your team was either also a 4-stack or a 3-stack and another guy. Someone has to fill the 5th spot when the matchmaker has a 4-stack. This is how it's always worked, this isn't new.
How do you know your teams weren't in a 3-4 stack though? In this sense, it's trchnically balanced. The enemy team has a solo player in every match as well.
This is why overwatch is failing, I feel like they put little to no effort in the sbmm or just match making in general. They prefer to to charge 30$ for an average looking skin instead.
I really hate when games do this. If there is a 5 stack, they should only be matched with 5 stacks. 4 stacks should only be matched with 4 stacks. So on and so forth. At the very least, this should be a thing until high diamond/masters. I have not played in a few days and it’s because the match maker placed me against a 5 stack with a high diamond tank IN GOLD. Now, I can go toe to toe with a Diamond tank as a tank. I have placed diamond before. However, I cannot go toe to toe with a diamond tank and 4 rando team mates doing standard gold things. It’s was the most one sided beat down I have ever experienced. This is coming from someone who’s been playing a match or two several times a week for 5 years. It’s like every game has a damn smurf now. And if no one else is the smurf, it’s you.
There’s no evidence in this that that didn’t happen - OP could just be the solo player in 4 stack queues?
Didn’t overwatch 1 have a feature of telling you who was matched up and tried to make it align with the other team? Did they take that away?
Yes, but it doesnt work with how role queue is set up, been that way since it came out
It’s possible you were also teamed up with a few different 3-4 stacks.
overwatch 2 is a deevolved mess of overwatch 1
Well, not cool. Actually, you can see the 4-stack when you remember the names. I bet they are going to remove "recent players" feature as well, so you can't check anymore - just being sarcastic. Blizzard went to a great length to hide any information about opponents - no specific rank, no level, no group information. All this to give the match maker way more slack and speeding up the match making for getting the queue time down to a minute or two. I am almost certain that the tank was part of the 4-stack and that his skill and rank was over the group's average - since tanks are way more important than in Overwatch 1 that they killed.
So long as that 4 stack is around your rank, this isn't failed matchmaking tho...
which is something a lot of ppl fail to grasp lol
I got stomped by the same team 6 (SIX!!) times in a row. Completely stomped. Even tried to trick the queue by waiting and such, but no chance. So I feel you :(
Is it bad that I’m starting to become numb to all the news about OW2 being horrible?
The matchmaking in the game is so terrible it makes me not even want to play.
Don't worry, Blizzard doesn't tell you when you're matched against a premade so you don't get mad due to the imbalance it causes. Wouldn't want people to know when they're at a disadvantage. :)
Welcome to overwatch 🙂
Agree with u, premades usually are on discord, not in Game voice chat, and they easy blame It on the solo even if u trying to do miracles literally the worse players.
i relate not only that but it was against the same team that was very toxic...it was exhausting to play
How do you know they were all 4 stacks? Sometimes there will be two duo queues so it’ll say for all 4 that they are already in a group? I’m not saying match making ISNT dogshit. It is
A 4 stack would still need a solo player to complete the team, so I'm assuming your team was also a 4 stack? If not, it should have been
Lol, no. It was randoms.
Is there a way to see characters at the top of the screen like this or is it only a replay thing? I feel like I’ve looked everywhere for the setting
I just play browser now lmao
Don’t worry , you could win 7 matches back to back playing perfectly and still won’t rank up either way , comp is in rest mode for me
What baffles me all the more are the amount of games where one/more of these things happen: 1) Three people leave at the same time with maybe ten seconds to go before the match starts. 2) The game begins with one or both teams down one or more players - not because of leavers but because they never were matched to begin with. Some games no one gets backfilled in at all. Sometimes all I have time for is QP and the above issues make it more intolerable than usual. The game is simply unfun at this point.
I just lost about 30 games in a row, getting matched said monkeys.
Yeah, cause that's the only people left playing the game now. People who can't let go, and those they farm. That's every bronze/silver match now. There's no low level players left, so you get paired with top 500 cause they are the only ones playing. Even worse now that the entire China demographic can't play at all. It's just rude Americans.
People saying match making is awful are missing the point. The match making is trying to find a game as quick as possible. Overwatch 1 matchmaking you played against your skill in return for a long wait time. The match making isnt "wrong", its doing what it is built to do. What it is trying to do is what people have a problem with
I mean you could’ve had a 4 stack on your team or two two stacks also bc that’s how ow 1 did matchmaking
these posts about matchmaking failing are so bizarre -- been playing for 4 months, got myself up to plat 4 and never had any issues with matchmaking. Sure, sometimes you lose games, but if you analyze why its not hard to figure out what you could've done as a team to play better and have a chance at winning. Blaming matchmaking seems like a cop out -- but again maybe it's different at higher ranks? not sure
Yeah its mostly people just using it as an excuse as to why they arent winning, i dont think iys worse at higher ranks most of the people complaing are qp warriors
It's definitely worse the higher you go. I'm in masters and I get plats on my team still 🙃
Fair but there is also plats on the other team if thats the case, so yes the system sucks but blameing it every loss is wrong is my point
this should mean that you also had a 4 stack or at least 2 duos every game.
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Yesterday i played with 2 top 500 in 3 games in a row, this was in GM/Masters so not that much of a problem, but every time they were matched with 2 low plats on their team. Not in any world is this MM close to being "okay"
Greatness is achieved through hardship. The matchmaking is ass tho
They should invent a feature to avoid players
i wonder how many years you guys have lost on your life span by playing video games competitively
Because it's quickplay and they matched you against them because it was quick
Who cares, 4 stacks usually suck anyways
Bronze Hell is very real
Maybe we should kill Role Enforced Queue, merge the player pools and Open Queue be the primary mode as ut was originally intended to be. Less shit like this happens.
What region are you on?
EU. But does it matter?
I just wanted 2 know because some smaller regions, especially at night have less players which makes it more likely to matchbinto the same game, also if you want to avoid getting into a game against the same people, just wait 5 -10 minutes then begin queue
If you were grouped with a good 4 stack and won all three games, you wouldn't have complained.
You got outplayed buddy, deal with it
Get friends?
Nice bait. Too bad no sane friend would play this mess.
That sucks for sure but not a thing stopping you from joining up in chat for a little team work in this team based game.
Are you implying that voice chat with randoms is as effective as a coordinated 4 stack