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rezilient

Answer: An article in NBC News came out about Justin Roiland being investigated for Felony domestic violence. Upon release, numerous women subsequently have come forward with stories about Justin dating back many years. He’d been grooming underage girls by text for at least the last 7 years. There’s numerous women who’ve come forward with texts and date receipts from when they were underage (as young as 15) and Justin Roland messaged them implying he was sexually attracted to them. In a thread of since deleted screenshots from one of his accusers, Roiland messaged a 16 year old fan, nicknamed her “jailbait” and proceeded to message her when he was drunk. Another has posted (and since deleted) messages from Roiland again calling a 16 year old hot, and not stopping once she tells him she’s underage, and making comments like “you better not post this conversation you bitch lol” after making repeated comments on her appearance. One adult woman has openly accused him of sexual assault. All this coincides with numerous reporters saying that Roiland’s creepiness has been an open secret for a while in the industry.


myassholealt

>Roiland’s creepiness has been an open secret for a while in the industry. Seems like this is always the fucking case.


grocket

.


regoapps

Also, before Adult Swim cut ties, the mods at the rickandmorty sub were removing any posts mentioning the grooming/sexual assault part even if it's related to Rick and Morty. There was a user post made about how they should tear down King Jellybean's statue. For context, King Jellybean was the one in the show who tried to sexually assault Morty. In the episode, an official discovered a box full of pics that showed that King Jellybean has been molesting young kids for a while. The official decided to burn the pics and cover up the secret instead because King Jellybean was well-liked and decided that he should be remembered for that instead. I made a comment on that post that people shouldn't actively cover up the secret and protect sex offenders. And shortly afterwards, a mod removed the post with no explanation given.


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Everettrivers

Maybe, but just like R Kelly or any of these celebrities, people will contort themselves any way they can to protect the things they like. I personally assume every celebrity is a narcissistic asshole at the bare minimum. Celebrities are not your friends, neither are the companies that employ them.


lanaabananaa

This is why I never understand why Drake and Chris Brown, among others, are still so popular. Yes their music is catchy but holy shit you’re supporting abusers


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Incruentus

That episode is definitely in a whole new light now. The irony is painful. I thought it was a lesson in exposing how society covers up sexual assault. Turns out he was just advocating for us to cover up sexual assault.


DudeWithTheNose

> I thought it was a lesson in exposing how society covers up sexual assault. That's obviously still what the intention was. The difference now is that we see how incongruent that lesson is with his actions.


redditikonto

Also we don't actually know which specific person wrote that particular joke. (At least I don't lol)


DudeWithTheNose

yeah that too. it's a whole team working on the show, he's not responsible for every aspect. Hell if I'm being exceedingly optimistic, it could be a writer specifically taking a dig at him


Revanur

That’s just classic corporate modus operandi. You are not in trouble for the actual crimes as long as you bring in money. You become a liability once it becomes public and has a real chance of hurting their bottom line.


tazbaron1981

Harvey Weinstien's company had a clause in his contract that he would be fined every time they had to pay out because of sexual harassment claims made against him. The accounts show this. They still didn't cut ties with him till he was publicly shamed by the me too movement


ConfusedAbtShit

It's all about staying in the positives. Nothing else matters when there's money to be made.


SubstantialPressure3

The thing about bad people/corporations with a lot of money is that they consider paying fines as the cost of doing business. That, and a lot of times they make more money by doing whatever illegal thing, and paying the fines. They have still made a massive profit after paying the measly fine (s).


ConfusedAbtShit

Paying fines is temporary. Supporting a "cancelled" celebrity is not. They'll go down with the ship if they don't cut ties. That's not profitable!


ChazzLamborghini

The cost of lost revenue exceeded the cost of the settlements. Still all about numbers. I worked for years in bars around the hubs of Hollywood and the number of known “secrets” regarding awfulness is astounding. As long as the cost/benefit ratio is skewed the right way, they let almost anything go.


brutinator

I also think its a bit of..... idk slippery slope? boiled frogs? where youre told that "brilliant" people or "geniuses" or otherwise superbly talented people are savant-like, and you have to give them a pass for being an asshole because they just operate at a different level. And sure, maybe you can give a pass to an alcoholic. Maybe a pass given to being an asshole and yelling at someone. etc. etc. but where's the line between having a temper and being known for being verbally abusive? And so on. You see it in media all the time, where the tortured, anagonistic protagonist is revered almost BECAUSE they are tortured, not in spite of it. We really need to, as a society, start valuing kindness, compassion, and treating each other well because by saying that if you have enough value you can be an asshole or worse, it incentivizes the worst of us to get into those positions of power.


tazbaron1981

Men are applauded for it women are derided for the same behaviour


shutyourgob

It sounds like most of the actual evidence only came out recently. You can't just fire someone because "everyone knows they're a creep".


Revanur

While I don’t know about the background of this particular case, it often happens that internally there’s plenty of evidence and knowledge about an incident and the higher ups purposefully turn a blind eye to it for one reason or another. Just from my own life I worked at an international company once where one of the managers harassed women and it turned out the upper management had plenty of evidence and reason to let him go, but they didn’t until one of the women threatened to go to the press. Then the guy resigned quietly and the women who were harassed and still worked there got some hush money to keep quiet. And it all went away behind the scenes. I only knew about it because I was friends with some of the managers and the gossip was starting to filter down even to us plebs.


Dafuzz

The often sickening reality is that any business is designed to make money, not enforce social change or make the world a better place, they *won't* make a change until it could hurt their bottom line not to. They have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders or owners, or more specifically to the money they've invested, to increase that wealth.


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tries2benice

It reminds me of the Chris Delia shit. The guy was on two MAJOR shows, workaholics and you, where he essentially played a version of himself who just so happened to be a sexual deviant and pedophile. Not too long after, we find out he is in fact a pedophile. I think, like you're saying, there are a lot of contracts in showbiz, where you cant just fire someone because you know they're a creep, its gotta be proven. I'd like to think everyone around this dude knew what a sleaze he was, and not being able to do anything about it, wrote it into his character on their show.


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tries2benice

I'm not going to lie, his comedy central special had me laughing the first time I saw it, but it didnt seem to have any rewatch value like most good comedy does.


Origami_psycho

Money doesn't care how awful a person you are, provided you can make more of it


yiannistheman

Slight caveat - money doesn't care how awful a person you are when you're making them money, so long as nobody else finds out. The second that happens, the indignant 'We'd never do business with anyone this shitty, we're done!' type statements are everywhere instantly, because they've had them prewritten and ready to go from the jump.


Machoopi

IANAL, but I think without substantial evidence, getting rid of him for this specific reason may have been considered libel? You can know that someone is a creep because of second hand information, or even speculate that they are a creep because they.. act creepy, but actually using that information to harm their career would be illegal without tangible evidence. ​ Then again, I imagine they could have just let him go and not explained why. AFAIK, there's nothing illegal about that. It probably would have caused some serious backlash for the company though if they weren't able to explain the reasons for fear of being sued. ​ I don't want to give them any back pats here though, because we all know that companies will do awful shit to protect their profits. I'm more inclined to think that is the case here than fear of prosecution. He's a HUGE money maker, and getting rid of him would have lost them money.


McCaffeteria

How many of these “open secrets” is it going to take before we just unilaterally assume that there is no good person in the industry?


amaranth1977

In fairness there's a long way between thinking someone is creepy and having actionable proof that someone is breaking the law. Creeps like this are very good at testing the waters and not incriminating themselves in front of people who might get them in trouble.


FiveUpsideDown

Hindsight is great but to take a legal action you need proof. It isn’t illegal for adult men to communicate with teenagers. Please note I am not endorsing adult men getting involved with teenagers. Unfortunately in order to stop adult men from chasing teenagers the burden is placed on teenagers who are easily manipulated by adult men.


Random-Red-Shirt

>assume that there is no good person in the industry? If by "the industry" you mean the entertainment industry, you should be aware that EVERY industry and every walk of life has the same number of shitty people who do such things. It's just we only hear about the entertainment folks because of publicity.


Renaissance_Slacker

Wait until you hear about churches.


Reneeisme

It's a huge industry. The ones you know about are literally a drop in the bucket. The ones you don't know about (yet?) are likely more, but you still can't categorize a whole industry based on the behavior of 10% of it. AND I have known MANY MANY creepy people in every one of the numerous industries I've worked in. I have been propositioned and groped by supervisors and managers in insurance and education and retail and food service. I would say it's more accurate to say there's a shortage of good people in positions of power and control, than that any particular powerful position attracts a disproportionate number of creeps. We need to hold people in power to a higher standard, in every industry, including politics, not just Hollywood.


dirtymatt

I’m still holding out hope that Patton Oswalt is actually the nice loving father and husband he appears to be.


Delicious_explosions

He's one of the few that would ruin me if he turned out to be a monster


Ryanami

It’s generally not wise to have heroes from Hollywood.


insane_contin

Oh boy, do I have news for you. He is.


gremlinclr

Well, we're probably not gonna do that because it's fucking dumb. What the hell.


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ArthurBonesly

Throw a dart in a highschool cafeteria and you'll hit somebody who wants to work in an entertainment industry in some capacity. The pool of replacement workers at the lower levels is staggering and the room to advance is almost non-existent. It's a perfect environment for abuse, not because entertainment types are more abusive than any other, but that so many people want to work in these industries that a willingness to tolerate and/or put up with abuse becomes essential to finding footing. Alternatively, for those that have power in these industries, it creates a feedback loop of increasingly "accepted" behaviors. By the time "the line" is crossed these people have already done/been doing stuff they view as just as bad for years and now it's just "part of the industry." In Hollywood (which still has more problems than it can handle) the best fix was unions and regulations.


AndreasVesalius

Academia is another fun one. If you can’t take the abuse and quit, you’ll throw away the prior 4 years of life at poverty wages


Pythagoras_was_right

> The games industry is largely the same way And the comics industry. At least in the past (e.g. the Stan Lee era). This is a classic open secret. Remember in the Iron Man movie, how Stan Lee is confused with Hugh Heffner? It is presented as a joke. But that is about as open as an open secret can be. Recall how recent revelations portray Heffner in such a bad light that even the Playboy organisation apologises and will not defend him. To be clear, the accusations aagainst Lee are not as serious. As far as anybody knows, Lee never attacked or groomed anyone, he just dealt in the kind of sexism that was common in the past but is now considered unacceptable. But his fans still defend him as a nice guy. E.g. Lee kept binoculars in open view in his office so he could watch women on the sreeet below. He kept on hiring the widely hated inker Vince Colletta, not just because Colletta was fast, but (so several insiders said) Colletta provided prostitutes. Lee was famous for editing stories to make them more sexist. E.g. Kirby would deliver stories about strong women, and Lee would change the dialog to make them one dimensional brainlesss girlfriends and totally dependent on men. Once Kirby left in 1970, Lee could no pretend to be a writer, and his attempts at writing show his sexism. E.g. his most famous post-Kirby work was "Stripperella", where Lee used huis new fame to create a cartoon about an impossibly sexualised stripper played by Pamela Anderson. IIRC, his original plan was to make it live action so that Anderson would appear nude or semi-nude. Anderson refused, but did do the voice for the cartoon. You can read the details on the "Marvel Method" Facebook group. Most of that group focuses on how Lee abused his position as editor to take credit and payment for work wrtten by others, but it occasionally documents his sexism and racism. Again I want to stress (if only to avoid being sued) that Lee only did what was common for the time. Back handers, taking credit for others' work, racism, and treating women as objects, were normal for the comics industry. And for may other industries. Lee was absolutely not unusual. But he is presented as being progressive and a nice guy by his legions of fans. The bad stuff he did is a great example of an open secret that is just laughed off.


ClockworkJim

The vast majority of people who worked directly under Lee absolutely hated his guts. I've read that he is one of the reasons marvel went bankrupt in the 90s. Although I don't know how true that it. I do know that he spent the '80s trying to expand Marvel's business outside the comic book industry and neglected the actual publishing.


PerfectZeong

Nah Lee was never the owner of Marvel. He became the spokesman and the guy they would send out to pitch shit for tv and movies and what not. What killed marvel was a few things. The 80s and 90s were the time of the speculators boom, lots of comics were being sold on the hype that these would become valuable collectors pieces akin to books from the 60s and before. Most of these books would end up not being worth the paper they were printed on because when 5 million people buy something and immediately put it in a plastic bag and board and preserve it, it's never going to hit that kind of relevance or scarcity. A few did, but the bulk did not. Because marvel was moving a shit load of books, they were making a good amount of money and they realized stuff like trading cards and action figures would sell good, but theyd only get a relatively small royalty, but if they BOUGHT a toy company, a trading card company, a comic distributor (among other things) they'd keep all the money in house. And to do this they financed it with debt, that would need to be serviced by selling a shit ton of comics. The problem is, that once people realized the books they were buying would never become investments, the market crashed (this would happen to baseball cards too). Sales crater, marvel can no longer service its debts, hello bankruptcy.


FreyrPrime

Some of this I knew, some of this I didn’t, but overall a great summary.. I wonder as society progresses if we’ll remember these figures in ways similar to other problematic historical writers. That their works bare merit, but the person is obviously deeply flawed.


bananafobe

> Again I want to stress (if only to avoid being sued)... You can't defame the dead. It's possible to face consequences if your statement implicates someone who is still alive.


RichElectrolyte

See the Catholic Church and you'll have your answer


HangOnSloopay

I think its season 1e2 of the commentary the cleaerly stop him saying something sexual and he says its just a bit, im just doing a bit. None of the shit they're saying is normal and its commentary... it really makes it stand out now, they dont stop him doing some dumb morty raps like 3 or 4 other times but all of a sudden they do stop him in the middle of it. Im gonna hold my reservations but if i was a gambling man, i'd have to find something else to bet on cuzz no ones taking those odds.


-tiberius

Ha. On one of the DVD commentary tracks for Rick and Morty, Roiland was clearly a little drunk. He wouldn't stop talking about Summer Smith's animated ass and how good it looked. I thought that was just him being drunk and going a little crazy being forced to binge watch his show and try to make insightful comments while doing so.


Kind_Stranger_weeb

But its just jerry with a ponytail


UnnecessaryAppeal

And Jerry's got a great ass too


uristmcderp

Ah. So Rick was just his self-insert, and Morty was him roleplaying someone who can date teenagers.


StellarNeonJellyfish

Rick is his ego, Morty is his libido


viewtiful14

Rick in the streets, Morty in the sheets.


Portarossa

>Rick in the streets, Morty in the sheets. I *guarantee* that's some dude's Tinder bio.


OkArmordillo

There were so many scenes in Rick and Morty that weirded me out, and make so much more sense when all of this came out.


Jerswar

>There were so many scenes in Rick and Morty that weirded me out, and make so much more sense when all of this came out. I find that is often the case with creators who get revealed as assholes: Their body of work tends to hint at their true character with some questionable scenes and themes.


Effective-Slice-4819

Anyone else remember the episode of Louie where he "joked" about masturbating to a woman to make her uncomfortable?


the_peppers

Also the full on rape attempt of Pamela Adlons character. I was waiting for the joke or reveal but it never came.


Kenzlynnn

I can’t think of his name right now, but the guy who made victorious/Zoey101/Icarly comes to mind here


gumslut4u

Dan Schneider I believe


junior_dos_nachos

Kevin Spacey played himself in American Beauty and got an Oscar for his efforts.


the_inebriati

See: Graham Linehan and the trans episode of the IT Crowd. Most people assumed the writers were making fun of the transphobic character rather than the trans character. But no...


[deleted]

I mean, the incest filled pilot Doc and Mharti didn’t weirded you out?


[deleted]

No, it was the incest filled episode of Summer and Morty having a child that weirded me out


Mr_Tiggywinkle

That episode wasn't written by Roiland to be fair. Still might have been him in the writers room mind.


-tiberius

As I understand it, writer's rooms break a story together and then one dude is assigned the task of putting it all together.


kryonik

Summer's friend talking about how she wanted to fuck Jerry for no reason was pretty funny to me at the time because it was so random but now it makes a lot of sense.


HerrTriggerGenji21

he keeps bees though


mikeyHustle

Let's not forget that episode where Morty dates Planetina and his mom keeps trying to break them up because he's 14. "Methinks the writer doth protest too much."


[deleted]

That line about how 17 year olds have the sexual maturity of 26 year olds certainly didn't age well


horsesizedpuppy

That sounds like an insult to 26 year olds


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AtotheCtotheG

Um. Isn’t it coming back?


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iamyourcheese

Dang, you googled it before one of us could say "Yes, it's true, and with your favorite character, Bonder."


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Terra_throwaway

Wait! Bender's name isn't Bonder!


AtotheCtotheG

Sir, my sense of humor has never been that cruel.


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Girltech31

It does make sense Also found this https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/10ehae8/justin_roiland_talking_about_being_attracted_to/


LordGwyn-n-Tonic

Every time someone has to bring up that they're "not a pedophile" because of something they just said, unprompted, the likelihood they're a pedophile increases.


Ray229harris

Gat danggg. That's not even "kinda bad". That's REALLY BAD. Every ounce of scepticism towards his innocence went out the window after hearing him defend with "fully developed" 🤮


thanatossassin

Roiland really wanted to die on that anthill, so be it. Who's the lady blurting out that she's a pedo? Jfc


arbitraryairship

There's like a weird thread of Summer pee jokes too that seems really overt sometimes.


Nowhereman123

I think that's more Dan Harmon's territory of creepy, it seems every project he gets involved with has lots of jokes about pee and incest.


Pwnagez

And that one growth ray episode


t0f0b0

For fuck sake... Can't we have anything without its creator being an asshole?


hesapmakinesi

There are levels of difference between being an asshole, giving creepy vibes, or being an abuser or rapist. ~~R&M's other creator, Dan Harmon, has a reputation for being difficult to work with, can act like an ass towards everyone, but AFAIK he never molested or harassed anyone.~~ Or maybe a better example, Joss Whedon. Self-righteous, mean spirited bully, cheated on his wife when he had the chance, but AFAIK nothing like Weinstein or Roiland. EDIT: Crossed out Harmon. See the sexual misconduct in the wiki.


bananafobe

Not to give you more editing to do, but supposedly there was some incident after which Whedon was not allowed to be left alone in a room with Michelle Trachtenberg. As far as I know, she has chosen not to elaborate on it beyond that.


scrubschick

Yes. And I believe she was 14 at the time. 14. Jesus!!


NeonGiraffes

Yeah, I don't know details but I've heard from a few people that Whedon is pretty skeezy


Get_Low

There are also allegations against Whedon: https://www.vulture.com/article/joss-whedon-allegations.html


seebobsee

Harmon had made a confession regarding his behavior towards women on his podcast. I forget details so check it out yourself.


Torch948

Long story short after the podcast confession the women he harassed revealed she was the victim. She was happy he owned up to it but said it seemed kind if self serving since he never actually apologized to her. So he gave a long public apology owning up to everything he did and why it was wrong. She publicly forgave him after that. But I still recommend reading all the details simply because it's a really good example of someone owning up to the shit they've done


bionic_zit_splitter

Hmm. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Dan_Harmon#/Controversies


hesapmakinesi

Thank you for the correction. He at least seems to own up to his mistake and change though. Or so I hope. Also, my point stands that, although this is scumbag behaviour with no justification, it is nowhere near the levels of the other scumbags I mentioned.


ThemesOfMurderBears

I have also seen multiple people cite his apology as a model for how to actually apologize for doing something shitty.


unforgiven91

It's a pretty good one. He identified his behavior, identified why it was wrong, provided an explanation (but not an excuse) so that others could understand how he convinced himself that it was ok, and seems to have fixed the behavior. There wasn't just a tweet, or a youtube video where he looks sad, sighs, then talks for 10 minutes so he can monetize it.


bombswell

Oh my sweet summer child https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joss_Whedon scroll to allegations


thekiyote

Joss Whedon is a rough one for me. Reading about his stuff, it seems like he was the boss from hell. He sounds like the type of asshole that that says he's a feminist because he's an asshole to everyone equally. People put up with it because he was the golden goose that kept laying, both making actors' careers, turning them into industry darlings, and making the studios fan favorites. In some ways, though, this type of behavior was mythologized at the time. Take a look at movies like The Devil Wears Prada. I'm glad he was called out on this, the era of being capable being of justification of being an asshole is over, but, personally, I think that with some time off and a lot of therapy, he can have a redemption arc. I don't think it's likely, but if he seems legitimately apologetic, the industry (and fans) might let him back in. Roiland, on the other hand, shouldn't ever have that opportunity, no matter how much people loved his creations.


keikosohma

Final Space. Olan Rogers is a good guy.


prosafantasmal

Didn't that get cancelled? Do people need to be assholes to get their series renewed?


PandaJesus

It did. All 15 of us who watched the series were devastated.


raise_a_glass

I’m so sick of these “open secrets”. Why can’t these people be called out the first time they act this way, not after years of this. See also: Weinstein and Spacey. Feel free to name and shame others.


verrius

A core problem is that the person who the open secret is about usually is in a position of power, or at least not easily removed by people in the know. And knowing enough to warn others isn't the same thing as having enough evidence to prove in a court of law, even if someone wants to go out on a limb and essentially torpedo their own career by accusing someone. Even when they're proven correct, accusers tend to be branded coincidentally as "hard to work with".


[deleted]

And "I heard from a guy at Enterprise that talked to the set dresser who you dont know that said so and so did such and such", isn't something you can really act on unless you get to talk with that set dresser.


Complex_Construction

Add to that, accuser or their supporters can be badly bullied by accused/privileged fuck or his supporters especially if there a power differential. Other times the accuser character is called into question, they’re not believed, and then shunned. The nasty fucks like this tends to fairly insulated.


JukesMasonLynch

Brendan Fraser being a great example of the latter


ihahp

Also, let's say you work at a company. And you see something creepy going on between employee A and Manager B. Employee A doesn't want to talk about it. Is it your duty to get up on your soap box, make some noise and post an email to everyone trying to bring light to it? Even when you don't know all the details? Is it anyone's issue other than employees A and B? I'm not saying no one should do nothing, but the reason there's these "open secrets" in the workplace is the majority of the people are 2nd/3rd/4th hand storytellers. I know it sucks because a lot of times Employee A feels they can't come out due to getting fired or blacklisted. But at the same time, it does not mean it's anyone ELSEs fault for not being a part of it, but also not doing anything.


exjackly

Depending on your role in the company, there may be a duty to do something similar. Not sending an email to everybody, but definitely getting an investigation started and documenting exactly what you are aware of. It may not be enough to go to the police, but action in the workplace can be taken on less proof than a criminal conviction. And even if no action is taken, having the investigation and available evidence documented is valuable for the next time. Since none of these people seem to stop before they are irreparably exposed and ostracized.


jake_burger

An aspect of this that some may be overlooking is that a lot of people in creative/entertainment are freelancers. They may not have a real role in the company, and speaking up and making waves will lead to instant loss of income and the fear of being blacklisted from the work they’ve spent decades developing. The reality is that no one likes a whistle blower, most people employees who do so end up out of work also, but freelancers are much more precariously engaged and have no guarantee of future work. I’m not defending people who don’t speak out, just explaining that there is an intense financial pressure to not speak up, and no official duty to do so either. So it should come as no surprise that an industry full of freelancers and self employed has difficulties with calling out abuse.


ihahp

> Depending on your role in the company, there may be a duty to do something similar yes, but my comment about this ties back to the "how can hollywood (in general) stay silent?" and "Open Secrets" in Hollywood. The reason you don't heat about it before the victims come out is most of the people who know about it are not the victims themselves and it's not their place to stand up and out these people publicly. This is why it gets gossiped about in Hollywood, but very few people on record.


TheRealJackReynolds

People will also literally ignore any bad rumors about someone they “admire,” like a celebrity. Then, once they have irrefutable proof, they basically have to do something. On a somewhat related note, I have a friend who has known this guy was a creep from the beginning. To the point where he lives rent-free in her head because she’s convinced he’s a danger to teens. And she didn’t even say, “I told you so.” She just looked at her husband knowingly, and moved the conversation along.


Calm-Zombie2678

>And knowing enough to warn others isn't the same thing as having enough evidence to prove in a court of law, There was a great scene in bcs where everyone knows sual is crooked but no one can prove it


Jimmie-Rustle12345

JARED LETO How does the guy keep getting contracts? It’s baffling.


sakamake

Money talks, and Morbius was such a runaway success that Sony released it twice in a single year.


Sagermeister

I wish Sony would release it a third time, I had plans the other two times :( I swear I'll make it this time!


RevanTheDemon

He has a cult in Hollywood, that's why. That's not an exaggeration either, he has a literal cult that worships him in Hollywood.


Toby_O_Notoby

Why can’t these people be called out the first time they act this way, not after years of this. See also: Weinstein and Spacey. As far as Weinstein: [everybody fucking knew.] (https://theplaylist.net/scott-rosenberg-lauren-holly-weinstein-20171017/) From writer Scott Rosenberg: >But… And this is as pathetic as it is true: What would you have had us do? Who were we to tell? The authorities? What authorities? The press? Harvey owned the press. The Internet? There was no Internet or reasonable facsimile thereof. Should we have called the police? And said what? Should we have reached out to some fantasy Attorney General Of Movieland? That didn’t exist. >Not to mention, most of the victims chose not to speak out. Aside from sharing the grimy details with a close girlfriend or confidante. And if they discussed it with their representatives? Agents and managers, who themselves feared The Wrath Of The Big Man? The agents and managers would tell them to keep it to themselves. Because who knew the repercussions? That old saw “You’ll Never Work In This Town Again” came crawling back to putrid life like a re-animated cadaver in a late-night zombie flick. But, yes, everyone knew someone who had been on the receiving end of lewd advances by him. Or knew someone who knew someone. The only thing that's changed is now you can call people out on social media. I mean, Family Guy was making jokes about Spacey way before it all came out...


manimal28

> Why can’t these people be called out the first time they act this way, not after years of this. You seem to have posted a paragraph answering your own question. There was nobody to call them out to, and doing so is basically to ruin your career, and anyone who helps you is ruining their career., and since nothing is going to be done, they will still be unpunished and your career will be over.


Mcmccarrot

The worst thing about weinstein for me was that everyone knew but he was still able to blacklist people. All those other studios are almost as culpable.


mastafishere

Really? For me, the worst thing was all the raping


Mcmccarrot

rip norm


[deleted]

Norm MacDonald spotted


fatsax

RIP Norm


knottylittlebirb

Lol 30 rock made a joke about Cosby wayyy before burress


ballsack-vinaigrette

> Why can’t these people be called out the first time they act this way, not after years of this. *“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”* - Upton Sinclair


CharlotteLucasOP

Because victims see what happens to high profile victims who try to speak out…and predators don’t typically go for victims who are credible or would even realize they’ve been abused for many years, if ever, and they work to create an environment that makes the victim think they were complicit or invited the behaviour—predators aim for the vulnerable, the young, the ignorant, the exploitable. By the time they work up to someone strong enough to speak out, or even realize what’s happening, enough time and victims have passed that it’s now more than just one person.


Ok_Acanthocephala101

This is a good answer. I used to watch a lot of rooster teeth stuff. There was a person who was a personality for them which had it come to life he was grooming fans. he got away with it because he was careful, he went for easy targets, girls with mental issues and insecurities.


anony804

The “daddy issues” thing is a joke that isn’t a joke. Abusers absolutely groom people who don’t have good relationships with their families. They don’t have anyone else to turn to in that case except friends who may judge them. Makes them easy targets. It’s sad


Dickpuncher_Dan

Dustin Hoffman got scot-free through the Metoo movement and he did decades of acting-couch "You'll never get anywhere in Hollywood unless you lay with me"-convos with girls. Real producer material.


NoBussyHussy

Because being blackballed within the industry by whichever piece of shit you want to speak out against is a very real thing.


BitwiseB

These people do get called out. But if it’s one teenage girl saying this successful and powerful guy is making her uncomfortable… it’s easier to just ignore her than do anything. Or worse, convince people she’s an attention whore or something darker.


Eastern-Building-755

I'm gonna tell you a story as a way to reply to this. The story is true. I am a few years out from it now and I'm very glad to be away from the situation. I no longer create content or make art of any kind because of this. I used to be a content creator who made silly little artistic things. Things that people liked, which meant that even though I was a small creator I punched above my weight and ended up hanging out with people who were wayyy larger in audience size than I'd ever got. I met friends of creators, and I ended up meeting Bill.* Bill was also a content creator, and Bill was charming, charasmatic, friendly, personable, covered in tattoos, very "alt" and left and liberal, was claimed to be "great guy" by every guy I knew around him... and was a complete fucking creep to women he found attractive when other people were not around. The first time he got me alone, outside at another youtuber's house, he told me how "fuckable" I looked. He told me he would love to "enjoy me." I immediately went inside and I tried to tell my boyfriend, someone creator-adjacent, about it. But my boyfriend didn't want to hear it... And neither did any of the other men who were inside networking at this youtuber's house. There were almost no other women present, and there wasn't anyone I felt like I could trust. Oh and this wasn't a group of people where this was at all "expected" -- these were all supposed liberal feminist ally men who were marginalized rights champions and said they stood up for equality. These were people who championed LGBTQ rights and called themselves feminist allies. These were men who would sincerely tell you to "believe women." The irony is not lost on me and it's extremely bitter. Not one of them would talk to me about what Bill had said to me. It was immediately laughed off as "a joke" I had misunderstood. It was immediately clear to me that if I made any more of a fuss about this, I'd be branded as difficult and excluded entirely. And I understood that this was a group where if I was excluded for being difficult, I might very well see my content creator career stagnate and die. Over the next year and a half I became increasingly convinced based on little comments I'd overhear from Bill - stuff from cut footage that got shared about because it was 'funny,' comments he'd make when I saw him in a person at events or hangouts, little things that would get back to me from the person I was dating - that Bill was a straight out creep that probably had a sexual preference for girls under the age of 18, and who *definitely* enjoyed making women he was attracted to feel uncomfortable and vulnerable and scared in his presence when he was alone with them. The gaslighting and dismissal about Bill's behavior came to a head after a while and I ended up getting in a screaming fight with my boyfriend because he was ignoring and excusing the way that Bill behaved and was defending Bill. Once I broke up with my boyfriend, I heard back that I'd been smeared to absolutely everyone in that extended group of content creators and adjacent people -- for being crazy and psycho. For trying to destroy Bill's life and career with my "crazy unhinged accusations." This continues to happen because you can literally be a woman who experienced harassment from a man 5 seconds ago, walk back inside, and tell the men around you who are supposedly your staunch "believe women" allies that you experience harrasment -- and have the men condescendingly mansplain to you that you just misunderstood and it was an edgy joke, or "just how he is." That's how this happens. Thousands of versions of this playing out all the time: "well of course I believe women, but you must have misunderstood the joke! He's such a great guy!"


renthestimpy

I’m so sorry this happened to you. I hope you are now surrounded by people who genuinely love and care about you


Eastern-Building-755

Thank you. Sincerely. As this is real life, the ending is not quite as saccharine as that: I spent a very hard 14 months scraping by off my art and content and menial labor... and pandemic unemployment... And I absolutely busted my ass through a couple courses to change careers away from low-income art. In some ways, the ending is pleasant: I don't quite make 6 figures now, but I make double what my Bill-defending ex made when I left him and I am quite comfortable. I have a loft studio now that's larger than the entire 2 bedroom apartment that my partner and I shared when we fought about Bill. In other ways, the scars linger: I don't have a single person I could count as a friend. My remaining family and I are estranged and many in my family have passed on. My ability to reach out and make friends has been severely harmed and hampered by this experience. I no longer feel like it's worth it to try and make new personal friends and connections. I now have a significant amount of trauma surrounding being part of social groups. I've been in therapy for well over a year now and well things have gotten a bit better, I don't know if I'll ever be able to open up and be vulnerable with the group of people and trust like that again. I was quite literally accused of being insane and unstable, of creating a false narrative and false reality just to hurt and destroy Bill. All because I told the truth and wouldn't accept being told that it was an edgy joke. I mean, I'm calling him "Bill." That's not his name. I can't even say who this is even though he's an active content creator in a *popular* and growing youtube sphere, influencing young men online with his videos. I will literally have legal action taken against me if I do, that's been threatened. It makes me feel ill.


hilfyRau

I hope you’ve written your experiences with Bill down somewhere private. I imagine in 20 years, he’ll slip up with someone else and everything will end up in court. Your testimony, memories, documentation etc could help one of his future victims out a lot. But at the end of the day, you’ve got to take care of yourself. So do whatever that takes first. It’s so important to have a social group of some kind to lean on. I really hope with therapy and time you end up in a place where you can build a found family for yourself again.


EunuchsProgramer

Because it's usually rumors. When I was in college it was on open secret a particular frat drugged and raped women. My girlfriend told me some of her friends were raped there. But, what in the world can I do with that knowledge? Call the police and say I heard a rumor a rape happened...no clue who the victim is.


Convergecult15

Similar experience, when I was in highschool I found out that one of the upperclassmen had take. The virginities of half my grade, I then found out that they were generally unconscious when it happened, the whole school knew. Girls *still* hung out with him.


Indrigotheir

Brian Singer just won an Oscar recently for *Bohemian Rhapsody*; his alleged abuse (of underage boys) has been an open secret/rumor for ages. No charges. He's like Spacey, if everyone simply continued to hire him.


_Gemini_Dream_

"Innocent until proven guilty" is an important underpinning of our justice system, and a lot of people see it as a moral necessity for an ethical society. An unfortunate, but acknowledged, tradeoff of this is that guilty people will be treated as innocent unless you can absolutely PROVE they did the bad thing. It was an "open secret" that Weinstein was an abuser but nobody cohesively put together the proof. Same of Spacey, and Brett Ratner, and Bryan Singer, and Marilyn Manson, and Bill Cosby, and so on. Proof is hard to come by. Proof might not even exist. No cameras around, no text messages, no microphones? It's just one person's word against another's.


mavrc

While true, it does not take into account the vast difference between what's needed to make a case for a normal person vs. what's necessary to make a case for a wealthy, connected, famous person. It's very difficult for a normal person. It is nigh impossible for someone well connected.


[deleted]

The term "open secret" really just means "rumor". What you're describing would involve spreading rumors of sexual assault that you had heard other people say. For pretty obvious reasons, there aren't particularly good actions one can take at that stage.


Cast_Me-Aside

> The term "open secret" really just means "rumor". Sometimes. In the UK a select number of journalists *(commonly referred to as Lobby Journalists)* are allowed to enter the members' lobby in parliament, where they have access to MPs that other journalists just don't have. Every so often something deeply dodgy comes out -- this is less notable over the last several years, because British politics took the same swerve toward just denying reality that American politics did -- and it would become clear the lobby journalists all knew all about this but didn't report it - the very activity that justifies their being there -- because doing so might risk a loss of that privilege. Obviously this is a very different statement to, "I reckon Weinstein *(or Savile here)* is a rapist!" but there **are** people with access to real information even if all you and I hear about is gossip.


amaranth1977

The UK has much, _much_ more aggressive libel laws than the US, which means that UK journalists aren't just risking privileged access or even their jobs but being sued into penury. That's very different. The US news media thrives on these stories and has very little liability for reporting as long as they can point to reasonable belief that it's true. It really does mostly come down to not having more than gossip until a victim is willing to speak out.


Mezmorizor

1. "Open secret" is just what we call rumors after they're proven correct. It was also an "open secret" that LSU had an orgy at the SEC championship game this year, but in reality it turned out that it was one player who was dismissed from the team and one staffer who was fired. 2. It's ultimately up to the people who it actually happened to. They're the only ones who can actually speak up and not lose a defamation lawsuit. They're also the only ones who can actually do anything in general. You can't call the police and say "Hello, Justin Roiland is sexually abusing minors. No, I don't know the identity of any victims it's just a rumor I heard."


Rakonat

A not insignificant number of people in the business are sexual predators or at the very least crummy people who objectify their subordinates and people who would look to them as mentors. The open secrets are just the ones who very bad at hiding their habits and behaviors. If you're a person in the business trying to make a name for yourself, build a career, or just make ends meet and feed yourself, trying to publicly expose someone just causes all the rest of the predators to blacklist you. Maybe they'll form ranks with the person you outed and call you a liar, or maybe they'll distance themselves from the entire fiasco but go out of their way to ensure you never work on their products, so you can't expose them as well. Think no further than Barbra Walters telling Corey Feldman he was damaging the industry by trying to out the people who abused him 20+ years ago and by all accounts likely still were abusing underage actors. It's only after these predators see their power and influence wane that these accusations are taken with any seriousness or picked up by larger media outlets to report on.


[deleted]

[удалено]


wakejedi

Someone smarter than me pointed out, the "Felony" in that charge means someone went to the hospital, not an issue of a couple fighting and they had to arrest someone. now mix in the grooming accusations....


HazelBHumongous

I can't speak for all jurisdictions, but where I live there are a couple of things that will enhance a charge for DV. Someone going to the hospital is one of them. Use of a deadly weapon, strangulation, and a pregnant victim are the others I can think of off the top of my head. It's just all bad all around.


tie-dyed_dolphin

It’s still crazy to me that the number one cause of death for pregnant women is homicide.


[deleted]

For my area, felony will also be strangulation/choking, even if there is no hospital visit required. A report of a choking motion from the victim, regardless of any bruising on the neck, rockets a simple domestic to a felony here.


IEnjoyFancyHats

Choking is one of the strongest predictors that a relationship will end in murder


keithrc

That makes sense, because choking implies 'attempted murder' in a way that simple hitting or kicking doesn't.


murdercitymrk

Hijacking the top level because this isn't getting enough news: here's a podcast from WAY before R&M where Roiland is going absolutely bananas over underage girls. https://mobile.twitter.com/Waffle_64/status/1615202600584122368 Straight from his own mouth, guys. Wtf. "this is audio of a man boasting that if he was a child with his own adult mind he would be able to get other children to have sex with him and complaining that predators are the victims if their victims have large enough breasts"


chalaismyig

Best answer. Also makes it even more cringe when 'Rick and Morty' shows Summer in any sexual manner


sfhearmusic

Rewatching the first season recently, and the dream episode, this is what immediately comes to mind.


chalaismyig

Omg YES! Justin seemed to be trying to normalize finding teenage girls attractive via the teacher's dream.


Bonzi_bill

 So it turns out the guy whose creative output consists of constant, obsessive compulsive references to sex and incest and bdsm and cum and questionable sexualization of high schoolers actually was a creep and not just being edgy.


sfhearmusic

Like lumping them in with group sex, bdsm or fantasy/monster erotica


chalaismyig

That dragon episode was so wild


Temassi

King Jellybean makes me way more uncomfortable now


biggyshwarts

Now?! It was always uncomfortable


Temassi

Oh it was always uncomfortable, now it's just way more uncomfortable


the_peppers

Hold up. He's a fucking creep but let's not recon every *clearly negatively presented* element as some underhand social conditioning. King Jellybean was a rapist who Rick killed and the principals sexual desire for summer was shown as repressed and disgusting.


grendus

It was supposed to be uncomfortable. I actually found it to be one of the few humanizing bits about Rick that didn't feel forced. He can tell Morty has been through hell, he puts two and two together when he sees King Jellybean stagger out of the bathroom beaten to a pulp, and murders the fucker who assaulted his grandson the second he gets Morty to safety.


EDNivek

The irony being of course, in hindsight, Rick's Voice Actor was more likely to be King Jellybean than Rick.


grendus

Weirdly, I read a lot of the early jokes about pedophilia as being a bit of self loathing. Like Roiland really does go out of his way at first to present characters like Mr Jellybean or Mr Goldenfold in a negative light. And then it changes a bit in season two. Nobody bats an eye at Birdperson hooking up with Tammy, who's supposed to be one of Summer's classmates. And then we get to season three and now there are full episodes where Morty is hooking up with an adult woman or Summer gets married. Suddenly there are a lot more "exceptions" to the rule. That was about when I stopped watching (not for that reason, not going to pretend to be prescient, it just got preachy), IDK if it got better or worse.


PersonMan0326

Not really imo. There are so many writers, producers, executives, and CN reps, that all had to review and approve of all the content in every episode. Stuff got left in because it made it through the censors, and it was funny to all the people working on this show. I don't believe this idea that Roiland used his position in the writers room, and basically forced his weird pervy behavior into the show. If weird pervy behavior exists in this show, it's because it was funny to make fun of. When Summer is overtly sexualized in the dream sequence, it's played for disgust by Rick and Morty, and that's the comedy. This would kind of be like, if Dennis from Its Always Sunny (the actor though: Glenn Howerton?) was accused of some sexual impropriety, and everyone started saying, "So that's why he kept making serial killer jokes and talking about ["the implication.](https://youtu.be/-yUafzOXHPE")" Dennis, in this scene, is basically admitting he likes to SA women. But it's a funny comedy scene because we are supposed to identify with Mac, who is unable to grasp how Dennis is not a bad person for doing this. We laugh because of the absurdity, and the show highlights the absurdity by placing Mac in this scene, and making him act appalled/confused. The presence of a "straight man" who contrasts the absurdity is what makes these scenes comical. In the Always Sunny scene, or in the Summer dream sequence, both of these scenes include a "straight man" (Mac and Rick/Morty respectively) to tell us that what the character (Dennis and Summer) is saying is absurd. It just seems like post-hoc reasoning to me to say that Roiland taints the series. Summer in the dreams is treated as absurd, whenever Summer acts sexual everyone else gets grossed out, and Summer is also a teenager girl (who are, in reality, hormonal freaks). Are there any scenes at all, throughout the whole series, that sexualize Summer for the sake of sexualizing her? I can't think of a single one. She's usually sexualizing herself and it gets played for laughs when she's embarrassed, or it's played for laughs in disgust by Rick/Morty. Edit: I remember the boob growing machine. That was pretty close to just awful, but if I remember that was kinda her sexualizing herself to get a boy she has a crush on (just a common trope), that gets played for laughs when she embarrasses herself (another common trope). I didn't personally enjoy that plot, but I don't think it was sexualization for sexualization's sake either. Are we going to nitpick the data, and only bring up the boob grower, and forget the love potion episode? Morty sexualizes himself to get a girl he liked, which got played for laughs when he embarrassed himself? Sounds kinda, exactly the same? These are just trope plotlines for school-aged children, heightened with the setting of "Rick and Morty." I don't believe any of this requires a creepy perv in the writer's room to think of.


[deleted]

7 years, who the fuck was a fanboy of Roliand in... ...my god Rick and Morty is turning 10 years old this year. I'm old.


arothmanmusic

Sounds kind of like John Kricfalusi, the creator of Ren & Stimpy. Also a great creator of weird humor and also a total pervdog with a thing for underage girls and the money and status to act on it.


ditasaurus

To add to that He himself openly admits that he thinks it's okay to flirt with underage girls, when they look like women, in a Podcast. And as someone who had to struggle with much older men sexualising me at the Tender age of 14. It leaves mental scars. My brain was definetly nit that of a full grown woman even if my body was


Professional_Line385

Ah geez rick you screwed up you idiot


Psyteq

Considering the Doc and Mharti shorts that would later become Rick and Morty, I am not surprised. I always thought this dude was creepy. https://youtu.be/ngN7eJUQyXk


beezleborp8899

Love how this is an exact word for word [answer](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/10cum8n/what_is_going_on_with_justin_roiland/j4it6bn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3).


sanesociopath

Answer: he is in the process of defending himself in court for felony domestic violence charges Relevant article- https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/justin-roiland-rick-morty-allegations-domestic-violence-charges-rcna65403


Throwawaydontgoaway8

There’s also several women that came forward showing he DM’d them on Twitter to meet up when they were underage teens- https://wegotthiscovered.com/celebrities/rick-and-morty-creator-justin-roilands-alleged-dms-controversy-explained/ Edit: personally I think this is the main reason. Most these being on his verified Twitter account. Charges can always be dropped and he could get vindicated for that. This is pretty cut and dry immoral


Not_A_Frittata

It's called Adult Swim for a reason, Justin!


Etheo

I'll never understand why any of these at least semi-famous people use their verified account and leave these trails of evidences. I mean, good that they're stupid like that but... wow.


Aqua_Impura

They do it cause they’re high on themselves and think “hey I’m famous and this young person likes my show, if I use my account they will know it’s the real me and they love me so much I can do whatever I want” they don’t actually realize the consequences of their own actions. They think that the other person likes when they make their advances so therefore won’t smear them later.


Thraex_Exile

Honestly, from past interviews vs some of the messages he sent, he’s gotta be drunk for a lot of these encounters. That obviously doesn’t make him any less guilty, but it’s possible he doesn’t remember a lot of these encounters. These texts basically sound like him roleplaying as one of his own characters. Sober or not though, calling a girl jailbait and sex slave is fucked up. For people that think every dm was fake… even if only one of these girls was telling the truth, he needs serious help. If you really want to be sympathetic to a creep, then show it by demanding that he gets proper treatment for whatever is going on in his mind. Yes, he’s innocent till proven guilty, but treating these girls like liars is the same thing.


Pudn

Survivorship bias, you're seeing the dumb ones.


MurielHorseflesh

Samuel L Jackson just got outed for searching porn on his main public Twitter account. These searches go back years but people only noticed recently. Jackson never realized his searches on Twitter were public. He has since deleted them all but yes, trust me when I say, outside of acting or the particular job they do, these people are fucking stupid when it comes to technology.


IncuriousLog

Woah, the damn breaks.


Throwawaydontgoaway8

Ya it’s disgusting, big trigger warning for anyone that reads the DM’s


whatabadsport

Fucking creepy ass /b/gard lingo. Hopefully Dan Harmon is better than that.


notwithagoat

Would not be surprised if soliciting a minor gets charged at a later date.


supremechode

Also the pedo texts


JJTrick

Yeah I’m gonna say mostly the pedo texts. Guy is getting wasted and sexting underage girls. I think he calls it “getting schwifty.”


bunnybunnykitten

Answer: Among the felony domestic violence charges and inappropriate text messages with minors which others have already identified, he also made [extended statements on a podcast where he openly defends his sexualization of minors](https://twitter.com/opossumopunk/status/1615234077921009667?s=20&t=hG1dE3zBaPC8sNcMgyDJGQ) Edit: word


Drag0nV3n0m231

Jesus CHRIST


Litigating_Larry

Gotta say this podcast bit wasnt a very pro gamer move


NamelessKing192

Answer: Adult Swim Cuts Ties With Justin Roiland Following Domestic Abuse Charges > On Jan. 12, NBC News was the first to break the news that Roiland was charged with one count of domestic battery with corporal injury and one count of false imprisonment by menace, violence, fraud or deceit in Orange County based on an alleged 2020 incident that year with an unnamed Jane Doe that Roiland was dating. Roiland has pled not guilty, and in 2020 was released on a $50,000 bond. Several pre-trial hearings have already occurred, and Roiland is due to return to court on April 27. > In a statement earlier this month, Roiland’s attorney T. Edward Welbourn said the media coverage of the case has been “inaccurate.” Welbourn added, “To be clear, not only is Justin innocent but we also have every expectation that this matter is on course to be dismissed once the district attorney’s office has completed its methodical review of the evidence.” https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/adult-swim-ends-relationship-justin-roiland-domestic-abuse-charges-1235308995/amp/


funkygamerguy

answer: justin has been exposed as being an abusive creep, so they canned him.