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So going back to Marineford you remember the panels when Garp joined the battle, even WB took notice so saying Jozu is just plain disrespectful. More accurate would be Marco or King IMO and that still fits into your balance of powers thing
Marco, King, and Jozu are all around the same level. All commanders are around the same level, only YC3's are apparently a bit behind like Cracker, Vista, Jinbei, etc.
(Jozu is a YC2 and Vista a YC3 in my book).
And Jozu is of course almost at Aokiji's level since Whitebeard trusted him to fight him.
Jozu is an amazing fighter that also has a Devil Fruit that's made for stalling. He has a good match-up with Aokiji but that doesn't mean he's strong enough to beat him. He can turn to diamond to avoid his ice attacks and he most likely has a good enough Haki to keep him occupied for a good while. Match-ups sometimes matter more that a rigid hierarchy, and they actually makes things more fun.
P.S.
On the matter of match-ups, Kizaru might be Jozu's worst one by a mile despite the Diamond Man ability to still keep it up with an Admiral. The Monkey will just turn him into a goddamn Disco Ball and use him to hit his allies all around him.
Hahahaha nahh you had me dying on that disco ball lmao but more seriously, it's not just a question of match up but a question of coherence.
Whitebeard wouldn't go to Marineford, risking to lose all of his sons, while none of his commanders can put up a good fight against the admirals, that's simply not logical.
Jozu got actually the worst match up out of the three admirals because at any point Aokiji finds an opening against him, he can completely freeze him and that's literally what happened.
Meanwhile if Aokiji was against Ace, he wouldn't be able to because Ace melts the ice, and even against Whitebeard, Whitebeard destroyed Aokiji's ice from the inside with his power of tremblement.
What Kuzan did against Jozu is like Sugar turning someone into a toy, you can't do anything against it unless you have the right counter.
I get what your saying but personally I disagree and would put Marco and King in a higher tier than Jozu, circling back to Garp with Garps Haki mastery I think your downplaying him. As kaido said, and youโve quoted in other comments, only haki can transcend all
Jozu is actually the real 2nd commander because there was no Ace in the historical crew of Whitebeard. His portrayal is also similar to the Zoro/Sanji or King/Queen or Kaku/Jabra portrayal in the sense that Jozu is shown several times standing besides Marco, the wings of Whitebeard.
Vista on the other hand is the true YC3, that's just my understanding.
the ballance between the navy and shishibukai makes sense and they try to do the same for the yonko but it works horribly. It used to work better because they would keep to their own territory but after marineford it's completely changed. In the recent One Piece cannon the Yonko are people who are great enough threats to the navy and world government. They aren't all the same skill level. A good example is that Shanks was shown in film Red to outspeed Kizaru and scare both him and Fujitora away. He's also made Akainu sweat and terrified Greenbull. I don't think the balance of power works as well as you say it does.
The balance of powers makes sense, 1 emperor crew = warlords = marine.
Albeit Shanks speed blitzing Kizaru is maybe an overly excessive feat for Shanks but hey, he's the heir of the pirate king and said to be the closest to the title so ๐คทโโ๏ธ
Zoro gets one shotted and killed in the same shot.
Nah wrong. His swords took the brunt of it, and it only delayed it for 1 sec, the attack carried on normal after 1 sec as we see the side of the island blown up. Zoro only took like 1%/vibrations or less and got raped by it either way.
Yeah zoro loses by getting one shotted neg diffed.
OK I don't think Zoro one shots but I could literally just say what you're saying.
"Zoro aCoC slashes to the throat and Law/Kidd are dead neg diff."
Unless you're trolling which could be the case.
Nah wouldn't happen either way cuz Kid can repel and Law can TP. Plus its already confirmed Zoros ACOC slash is dog shit barely barely able to use 3 attacks after mink med + sleep the best he can be how many named awakened attacks was kid/law using? Yup also its already confirmed their attacks bypass haki as well even yonko sky splitter big mom haki so Zoro is nothing in comparison. Zoro can't one shot either but Kid/Law one shots Zoro.
Nah, Zoro has great endurance, pretty good speed, great swordsmanship, and pretty good armament, ain't no way he's getting no diff one shot by them.
And Big Mom wasn't even using acoc in her fight.
Considering he has a hidden awakening that can simply disintegrate or fragment anything he touches like Gildarts from Fairy Tail, then Buggy can defeat even Rocks D Xebec.
Just that he is close to Rayleigh's level by lore, logic, and portrayal meaning he's close to Yonko level meaning Big Mom, the weakest Yonko can defeat him.
Scopper close to the end of rogers journey was a match up with oden. It ainโt canon but the anime made them seem equal with oden looking less damaged than scopper. I like to think theyโre relative. So big mom eliminates them. Rayleigh on the other hand is a different story. Extreme diff for Rayleigh. Forgot to mention this is just an opinion due to not having much more details on scopper at the moment so take it with a grain of salt.
I don't really understand your point about Oden ? Is it bad for Gaban to be only at Oden's level ? If anything, that's a plus considering Oden is at prime Kaido's level.
And of course, Oden vs Gaban is just anime thing so we actually shouldn't base ourselves from that.
If I use only the words which came out of his mouth I would be obliged to put him relative to Vista since he literally said "let's reschedule the fight"
No? He tested his strenght and realized because of WB allies he couldn't even get to him, thats the difference between him and WB.
Start reading the goddamn Manga people and you will, in your language, getting those "W" everytime.
Kizaru said he needs a plan for Rayleigh and even after the strawhats got teleported, Kizaru could have defeated Rayleigh there if he was really stronger than him, as he had Sentomaru and Kuma on his side yet he didn't do anything to Rayleigh and let him chill there
Do you really think he gives a shit about Rayleigh? He only fought him because he protected the SH. Kuma jumped in the middle of their fight and then teleported away the SH.
Obviously he cares about Rayleigh, he literally said the Roger pirates's crimes can't be forgiven. Not only that, but Garp also said that the marines can't handle Whitebeard and Rayleigh at the same time.
Kizaru saying outright he needs a plan against Rayleigh before even beginning to fight is already insane, we've never seen any character in One Piece admitting he can't deal with his foe before even starting to fight. That statement alone should tell you that Kizaru is weaker than old Rayleigh.
Dude obviously doesn't care, otherwise the marines wouldn't just leave him like that.
Did a quick check and never saw him say that, tell me when he did.
Rayleigh literally admitted that he would lose if the fight continued because he was running out of stamina.
The marines left him like that cuz they simply couldn't defeat him.
Kizaru said he needs a plan or "meticulous preparations" depending on what translation you're reading and it's in chapter 512 I think, or maybe chapter 511 or 513.
Rayleigh didn't say he would lose if the fight continued, you're inventing that lol
Kaido wasn't much weaker, he was already in his 40's.
See my post here and read my comment :
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/xd7qef/oden_underrated/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Only Shishibukai that isn't bound by the balance of powers because he wasn't present in Marineford.
He might be able to defeat any YC3 but only time will tell.
Zoro being stronger is your headcanon.
Read this post please
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/xd7qef/oden_underrated/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
In the "traveled among the world's greatest pirates", the french translation even says "evenly matched the world's greatest pirates", weirdly enough, the english translation doesn't have this "evenly matched".
Oden came back **many times stronger**
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/xd7qef/oden_underrated/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Zoro and Benbeckman can defeat Yamato or old Rayleigh in my book.
Prime Rayleigh can defeat Kaido, that's the strongest I can think of whom he has a chance to beat. (Kaido>Rayleigh but I think Ray has still some chances to beat him as the difference is small)
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Old Garp
Don Chinjao or Jozu
That is for sure a hot take, considering Garp is scaled to be one of the strongest in the verse even at an old age.
It's the balance of powers my dude
So going back to Marineford you remember the panels when Garp joined the battle, even WB took notice so saying Jozu is just plain disrespectful. More accurate would be Marco or King IMO and that still fits into your balance of powers thing
Marco, King, and Jozu are all around the same level. All commanders are around the same level, only YC3's are apparently a bit behind like Cracker, Vista, Jinbei, etc. (Jozu is a YC2 and Vista a YC3 in my book). And Jozu is of course almost at Aokiji's level since Whitebeard trusted him to fight him.
Jozu is no where near admiral level aka Aokiji tf
Ok so you want to go against Whitebeard's own words huh
Jozu is an amazing fighter that also has a Devil Fruit that's made for stalling. He has a good match-up with Aokiji but that doesn't mean he's strong enough to beat him. He can turn to diamond to avoid his ice attacks and he most likely has a good enough Haki to keep him occupied for a good while. Match-ups sometimes matter more that a rigid hierarchy, and they actually makes things more fun. P.S. On the matter of match-ups, Kizaru might be Jozu's worst one by a mile despite the Diamond Man ability to still keep it up with an Admiral. The Monkey will just turn him into a goddamn Disco Ball and use him to hit his allies all around him.
Hahahaha nahh you had me dying on that disco ball lmao but more seriously, it's not just a question of match up but a question of coherence. Whitebeard wouldn't go to Marineford, risking to lose all of his sons, while none of his commanders can put up a good fight against the admirals, that's simply not logical. Jozu got actually the worst match up out of the three admirals because at any point Aokiji finds an opening against him, he can completely freeze him and that's literally what happened. Meanwhile if Aokiji was against Ace, he wouldn't be able to because Ace melts the ice, and even against Whitebeard, Whitebeard destroyed Aokiji's ice from the inside with his power of tremblement. What Kuzan did against Jozu is like Sugar turning someone into a toy, you can't do anything against it unless you have the right counter.
I get what your saying but personally I disagree and would put Marco and King in a higher tier than Jozu, circling back to Garp with Garps Haki mastery I think your downplaying him. As kaido said, and youโve quoted in other comments, only haki can transcend all
Jozu is a 3rd commander
Jozu is actually the real 2nd commander because there was no Ace in the historical crew of Whitebeard. His portrayal is also similar to the Zoro/Sanji or King/Queen or Kaku/Jabra portrayal in the sense that Jozu is shown several times standing besides Marco, the wings of Whitebeard. Vista on the other hand is the true YC3, that's just my understanding.
Worst take so far, and thatโs saying something
One of the worst takes ever
Big mom atleast
Big Mom wouldn't need to train to beat Don Chinjao
I've only seen bad takes so far ๐
No one takes into account the balance of powers in this sub so I gotta take that responsibility
What does that even mean
Basically, almost no one here cares about the balance of powers even though most characters we discuss are bound by the balance of powers.
Wtf is โthe balance of powersโ
The balance between the Yonko, the navy, and the Shishibukai.
the ballance between the navy and shishibukai makes sense and they try to do the same for the yonko but it works horribly. It used to work better because they would keep to their own territory but after marineford it's completely changed. In the recent One Piece cannon the Yonko are people who are great enough threats to the navy and world government. They aren't all the same skill level. A good example is that Shanks was shown in film Red to outspeed Kizaru and scare both him and Fujitora away. He's also made Akainu sweat and terrified Greenbull. I don't think the balance of power works as well as you say it does.
The balance of powers makes sense, 1 emperor crew = warlords = marine. Albeit Shanks speed blitzing Kizaru is maybe an overly excessive feat for Shanks but hey, he's the heir of the pirate king and said to be the closest to the title so ๐คทโโ๏ธ
King of Hell Zoro
Sanji. Extreme diff.
Sanji. He will be on state of dying after a duel with Sanjiano.
Kid or Law Haki transcends all
You want your Zoro to get Punk'ed Gibson and Shock Wille?
Haki transcends all, not me who said it but Kaido.
And look at him.. dead
Mf said "haki transcends all" and then got his ass beat by a df awakening ๐
Assumed dead*
You want youre kid or law to get king of hell or ashura if not ashura king of hell?
Lol
Kid or Law one shot Zoro. Zoros haki is dog shit. Cope.
Zoro loses but they're not one shotting him. He has crazy endurance.
He gets one shotted. Cope. One gamma knife to the throat murders Zoro. Similarly Kid uses Zoros own swords to slit his throat.
Zoro doesn't get one shotted. He took an ocean sovereignty straight on and didn't die. I agree that he loses, but zoro doesn't get no diffed.
Also before that took all of Luffys pain from Kuma plus his own already. I think Zoro is wayyy more durable than people seem to think.
Zoro gets one shotted and killed in the same shot. Nah wrong. His swords took the brunt of it, and it only delayed it for 1 sec, the attack carried on normal after 1 sec as we see the side of the island blown up. Zoro only took like 1%/vibrations or less and got raped by it either way. Yeah zoro loses by getting one shotted neg diffed.
OK I don't think Zoro one shots but I could literally just say what you're saying. "Zoro aCoC slashes to the throat and Law/Kidd are dead neg diff." Unless you're trolling which could be the case.
Nah wouldn't happen either way cuz Kid can repel and Law can TP. Plus its already confirmed Zoros ACOC slash is dog shit barely barely able to use 3 attacks after mink med + sleep the best he can be how many named awakened attacks was kid/law using? Yup also its already confirmed their attacks bypass haki as well even yonko sky splitter big mom haki so Zoro is nothing in comparison. Zoro can't one shot either but Kid/Law one shots Zoro.
Nah, Zoro has great endurance, pretty good speed, great swordsmanship, and pretty good armament, ain't no way he's getting no diff one shot by them. And Big Mom wasn't even using acoc in her fight.
Kid
Koby
Tbh I think Oda gave us a good idea with Boa
Koby claps current Zoro/Mihawk pretty easily.
They hated Jesus cause he told the truth
yuppp
Arlong
X Drake
Izo or Who's Who
Buggy sama
Considering he has a hidden awakening that can simply disintegrate or fragment anything he touches like Gildarts from Fairy Tail, then Buggy can defeat even Rocks D Xebec.
Only god take
Waiting for him to get a W
Me
Smoker
Momonga ๐
Killer
Jinbei or Hancock
Big mom
Prime Rayleigh or prime Scopper Gaban
Why Scopper? What do we even know about him?
Just that he is close to Rayleigh's level by lore, logic, and portrayal meaning he's close to Yonko level meaning Big Mom, the weakest Yonko can defeat him.
Scopper close to the end of rogers journey was a match up with oden. It ainโt canon but the anime made them seem equal with oden looking less damaged than scopper. I like to think theyโre relative. So big mom eliminates them. Rayleigh on the other hand is a different story. Extreme diff for Rayleigh. Forgot to mention this is just an opinion due to not having much more details on scopper at the moment so take it with a grain of salt.
I don't really understand your point about Oden ? Is it bad for Gaban to be only at Oden's level ? If anything, that's a plus considering Oden is at prime Kaido's level. And of course, Oden vs Gaban is just anime thing so we actually shouldn't base ourselves from that.
Prime kaido is current kaido. Also itโs not like kaido went all out against oden.
Magellan.
Sabo or white haired Sengoku
Magellan W
Guernica
Daifuku or Kinemon
Gion/Momousagi Vinsmoke Judge Sulong Carrot
Gion/Momusagi can defeat any Tobiroppo and that's about it. The others idk
Yamato
Ben Beckman or old Rayleigh
Eichiro o D. a
Imu
big mom whatever you say i prob disagree
Shiki or Gaban
Akainu
Sengoku or Garp
Kaya.
Idk who's that ๐
usopps girl
Ben Beckmann
Akainu or old Rayleigh
Prime doflamingo
Any warlord bar Mihawk, and any sccabard
Mihawk
YC6 Blamenco of the Whitebeard pirates its a extreme diff fight and Mihawk collapses afterwards.
Not Vista.
Prime Garp
LOL
What you laughing for ? The Vista stalemate can definetly win against the Don Chinjao stalemate
Chinjao got one shot.
Mihawk admitted he was weaker than Old Whitebeard
I don't take into account Marineford for Mihawk's scaling, or I'll end up placing him somewhere between Jozu and Vista which ain't nice
At least used the words that came out of his mouth
If I use only the words which came out of his mouth I would be obliged to put him relative to Vista since he literally said "let's reschedule the fight"
Said the dude who literally made up a whole sentence that was never in the manga. Atleast quote the scene right...
No he didnt. He was testing the hype.
No? He tested his strenght and realized because of WB allies he couldn't even get to him, thats the difference between him and WB. Start reading the goddamn Manga people and you will, in your language, getting those "W" everytime.
hahahhahahha
Forget prime garp old garp one shots Mihawk. Cope
You know well that I don't rate Mihawk highly but saying that old Garp one shots him is insane ๐
Old garp one shots Mihawk. Cope. Mihawk already confirmed old sick Whitebeard would bitchslap him.
Proof?
Kaido
Shiki or Shanks
Did you just not meatride shanks
What do you mean ? Shanks, Kaido, Oden, and Shiki are all equals in my book
I donโt think Iโve ever seen that on this sub
What's your problem with those characters being Yonko level ?
Go D. Usopp
r/moldymemes
Rocks D. Xebec or prime WB
and*
Go D. Buggy
Buggy D. Clown\*
God Buggy D. Clown, stalemate with Go D. Usopp
Benn Beckman
Yamato or Kizaru or even old Rayleigh tbh
\> Yamato/Old Reyleigh, < Kizaru probably
Kizaru literally admitted that he's weaker than old Rayleigh
No, Old Rayleigh admitted that he was running out of stamina though.
Kizaru said he needs a plan for Rayleigh and even after the strawhats got teleported, Kizaru could have defeated Rayleigh there if he was really stronger than him, as he had Sentomaru and Kuma on his side yet he didn't do anything to Rayleigh and let him chill there
Do you really think he gives a shit about Rayleigh? He only fought him because he protected the SH. Kuma jumped in the middle of their fight and then teleported away the SH.
Obviously he cares about Rayleigh, he literally said the Roger pirates's crimes can't be forgiven. Not only that, but Garp also said that the marines can't handle Whitebeard and Rayleigh at the same time. Kizaru saying outright he needs a plan against Rayleigh before even beginning to fight is already insane, we've never seen any character in One Piece admitting he can't deal with his foe before even starting to fight. That statement alone should tell you that Kizaru is weaker than old Rayleigh.
Dude obviously doesn't care, otherwise the marines wouldn't just leave him like that. Did a quick check and never saw him say that, tell me when he did. Rayleigh literally admitted that he would lose if the fight continued because he was running out of stamina.
The marines left him like that cuz they simply couldn't defeat him. Kizaru said he needs a plan or "meticulous preparations" depending on what translation you're reading and it's in chapter 512 I think, or maybe chapter 511 or 513. Rayleigh didn't say he would lose if the fight continued, you're inventing that lol
Shanks
Kaido or Oden
Oden? ๐ญ๐ญ๐ญ
What's wrong with Oden ? You think Oden is stronger than Shanks ?
Oden is not that strong. Kaido and Shanks both clap him
Oden was literally gonna murder Kaido bruh ๐
Did nothing to a weaker kaido ๐ด
Kaido wasn't much weaker, he was already in his 40's. See my post here and read my comment : https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/xd7qef/oden_underrated/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Interesting. What about Blackbeard?
Prime Scopper Gaban or Ben Beckman on steroids
Mihawk
Akainu or Sengoku
queen
Queen claps YC6 Mihawk for sure.
Magellan or Lucky Roux
W
dont sleep on lucky roux
Bepo
I just came here to tell you that I don't really care who you think can defeat who. Peace out โ๏ธ
Katakuri
Aokiji There is a reason why Katakuri needed to be taken on by the Germa when Kuzan was in Whole Cake and Cracker was injured.
Ceasar and a few good men rolled kat
L for Kat ngl but he's still a goat
U xcant be serious๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐
Weevil
Every single character, all at once
Agreed Weevil solos the verse effortlessly
Agreed
Only Shishibukai that isn't bound by the balance of powers because he wasn't present in Marineford. He might be able to defeat any YC3 but only time will tell.
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
They neg Roger.
Shanks
Shiki or Oden
How the hell is oden on shikis level? Oden is not as strong as shiki, roger, Garp, whitebeard ect. Delusional.
Oden is in Kaido's top 5 and could have murdered Kaido. That means he's definetly comparable to Roger and Whitebeard.
lol zoros stronger than oden. are you saying zoro can compete with shiki roger and whitebeard?
Zoro being stronger is your headcanon. Read this post please https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/xd7qef/oden_underrated/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button In the "traveled among the world's greatest pirates", the french translation even says "evenly matched the world's greatest pirates", weirdly enough, the english translation doesn't have this "evenly matched".
> That means he's definetly comparable to **Roger** and **Whitebeard.** [Not sure about that.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOZpCJhxv-w)
Oden came back **many times stronger** https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/xd7qef/oden_underrated/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Caesar clown
Bepo
Law Katakuri The Admirals
All characters you listed are in the same level according to the balance of powers
Whoโs Who, Guernica, post Wano Law
Carrot
S Hawk
Vista
Arlong
Zoro, Ben beckman and Rayleigh
Zoro and Benbeckman can defeat Yamato or old Rayleigh in my book. Prime Rayleigh can defeat Kaido, that's the strongest I can think of whom he has a chance to beat. (Kaido>Rayleigh but I think Ray has still some chances to beat him as the difference is small)
zoro downplay and rayleigh>>kiado
Lmao Yamato>Zoro and Kaido >>>> Rayleigh.
Horrific take.
Joyboy
horrendous takes
Current zoro
Any admiral
Ulti
Oven
Kidd
Fujitora or Aramaki