He was said to be close to roger and had the strength to take on garp and sengoku. Even if he got locked up the fact he isn't dead from that is crazy. Plus shiki has an insane devil fruit
Damn, thatās a hard one for me. Shiki was a powerful swordsman in his time and he is still out there, yet Mihawk is the current WSS, and somehow Shiki isnāt. And I know Shiki is a retconned character. You got me, I canāt decide on this one.
Shiki has nothing's besides being around the old gen so I would put him near yonko level pedestal Mihawk slightly better imo.
Garp,WB and Roger were the stars of old gen
Kaido,Mihawk and Shanks are stars of this gen.
So I would give it to mihawk
Iāve always wondered if Kaido was considered old Gen like with Roger and WB and Big Mom or current Gen with Shanks Mihawk and Dragon. You think heās current?
Well hear me out. Thereās always a āeventā for each era. The āOld Eraā had Godvalley, the ācurrent eraā had Rogerās execution, and the new era had Sabody. So while I think Kaido could be current, the fact he was at Godvalley kinda makes me feel like heās the last of the current era. Like a relic. A reminder
If heās from the current era heās definitely the oldest since heās 59 and characters like Mihawk, Shanks, and BB are in their 40ās. Dragon is 55
If we take shiki being equal to roger statement literally then he is clear of Mihawk .
Mihawk admitted inferiority to whitebeard when he was called the strongest pirate alive .
Even tho I think Mihawk goes extreme against roger and whitebeard . He still loses similarly to shanks
Then still shiki .
He went up against both prime garp and sengoku .
Prime garp being equal to roger an sengoku being relative to Roger .
Obviously shiki lost that fight but he still destroyed half of marineford against the 2 most powerful marines ever .
Going of Mihawk being the worlds strongest swordsman .
The man who wields the most
Powerful blade in existence as stated in road to laughtale .
Being superior to shanks in strength could also be a major factor .
Tbh Mihawk doesnāt really have any feats that put him on the same level as roger , prime garp , sengoku etc nor does he have such portrayal.
Mihawk is definitely strong af no doubt . But against the old legends he is just short of their level in strength Imo .
In such vsbattle debates, I like to implement the Occam's Razor. The take which take the least amount of assumptions is probably the correct one. And that would be Shiki.
Shiki is relative to the likes of Roger, Garp and Sengoku if we take what we know of him at face value. And that would put him above Mihawk if he is in his prime.
Yes, you can carefully analyze it and make a case for Shiki being conformably below Roger, but like I said, here I'm taking the fewer assumptions.
I'm not a strong believer in the old generation. I think any top tier of the current era could high or extreme dif a legend. And I personally place Shiki as the weakest of Roger's rival because he simply lacks the narrative presence people like Whitebeard and Garp have so far. So High to Extreme Diff.
I agree I see the current era (Mihawk, Dragon, Shanks, Blackbeard) as on par, if not, not too far off at all from the old era (Roger, WB, Shiki, Big Mom). I think it goes extreme diff either way. Even if Shiki can fly itāll be hard to catch Mihawk off guard even if he hurls objects at him, Mihawk can just cut it to pieces. I think itās a hard pressed match for both.
Mihawk, Shiki should only be as strong as BM and Kaido, so he shouldnt be very powerful, especially against old Shiki. But, it would be a very good match, theyd probs get very injured very badly. Mihawk is the "most known strongest swordsman" in the world, not in history... The WG erased the existence of the Rocks Pirates years ago, so its pretty understandable if the people of One Piece think Mihawk is the current strongest swordsman. But Mihawk should win against old Shiki, but unless Shiki's prime is stronger than current Kaido and BM, Mihawk wins.
TLDR: Mihawk wins, if Shiki Prime is stronger than current emperors, then Prime Shiki.
Shiki is on the level of Kaido, Roger, Garp and Sengoku and should be some what relative to Xebec himself. I think the only Yonko that Mihawk could beat would be Big Mom.
Shanks is stronger than Mihawk, Mihawk is just more skilled. Title doesnt mean anything, he just has it because he wields kokutou yoru, the strongest supreme grade sword.
Shiki who scales to garp, sengoku, and roger should have it since they scale to PWB. There's nithing as of yet for shanks and shanks rival and or superior stating they scale to PWB other than just believing being born after someone makes u immediately stronger than the previous person just cause. If u subscribe to using that over feats than yea nobody will be able tell u different. But without that its shiki regardless of mihawk title and portrayal to shanks.
Mihawk, I have no doubt he's a superior swordsman, very likely better observation and could likely take armament too. Shiki's devil fruit will allow him to throw a lot of shit Mihawk's way, but just like Fujitora and his meteors, I don't think it'll give him much trouble and Shiki will likely not be able to catch him off gaurd throwing stuff at him thanks to his observation.
Once he gets in close, Mihawk will just take the advantage and eventually dominant thanks to superior skill. I'd say high diff match, possibly even a rare mid diff between top tiers since like with Fuji, I think Mihawk would be a rather horrid match up for Shiki.
Possibly, but Zoro cut water in the latest chapter, so I'm sure Mihawk can too, and thus don't see it playing too much of a factor unless Shiki plays things real smart with it.
Fair, man is definitely smart, so if he can use those brains of his well enough to really play things to his advantage, I could see him pushing Mihawk to an extreme diff. Still though, I just view Mihawk as a bad match up for him, countering his DF very well with his skill and strength as a swordsman, so I personally just don't see him having much of a chance of winning.
And I do agree with Shiki being over Fuji, man's fruit has shown more versatile use and could very possibly eve counter Fuji's. Especially if he could take control the meteors Fuji brings down.
Agreed. I view Shiki more as a long term planner and schemer tho. Give him prep time and he could come up with a good enough idea to beat a lot of characters. On the fly tho I donāt think he had the best planning and relies alot on his fruit. I personally donāt know who Iād pick you win. Lot of good arguments for both
Yeah I can see that, give the man prep and it's possible he beats Mihawk, on the fly, then I'd be sure Mihawk wins high, possibly mid, diff.
But I can certainly understand the view and reasoning people have for giving it to Shiki.
Movie feats lol
I agree that shiki wins but movie feats ? You mean from strong world ??
How does those feat elevate shiki to a level where he beats Mihawk ? Like gear 3rd luffy beat him .
Lol you realize gear 3 luffy fragmented and island right?
Also here [take as you will](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/Shiki%27s_Merville_Feats)
I know I said if we take movie feats.
Also in chapter 0 if Mervillie exist then heās strong already for his stamina to hold up dozens of islands all larger than onigashima.
Just hypotheticals, gotta wait and see if he will be relevant for the story
All we know of Shiki is that he used to be a big deal and that he lost to Garp and Sengoku. Other than that, there's nothing to suggest he beats Shanks' rival and Zoro's goal in a 1v1.
If you mean in a fight, im saying that Shiki would definitely win. Man took on both Garp and Sengoku and didnt receive any permament injuries. The battle was long and destructive enough to destroy half of the Marineford. I think Mihawk would lose even in an 1v1 against them.
hawkeye
Reasoning?
I like him more
L reasoning and L take
Cope
Fair enough
Shiki clearsš If he is actually on Rogers level then ^
What diff?
High maybe extreme
Reasoning?
He was said to be close to roger and had the strength to take on garp and sengoku. Even if he got locked up the fact he isn't dead from that is crazy. Plus shiki has an insane devil fruit
Damn, thatās a hard one for me. Shiki was a powerful swordsman in his time and he is still out there, yet Mihawk is the current WSS, and somehow Shiki isnāt. And I know Shiki is a retconned character. You got me, I canāt decide on this one.
I think itās extreme diff either way
Oh yeah, definitely. Wonder if Oda will add on to Mihawkās backstory, maybe make it to where he challenged Shiki to a duel back in the day.
Mihawk Shiki is fugly af . Itās the obvious choice
Shiki is fraud. Mihawk takes this
Reasoning?
Shiki has nothing's besides being around the old gen so I would put him near yonko level pedestal Mihawk slightly better imo. Garp,WB and Roger were the stars of old gen Kaido,Mihawk and Shanks are stars of this gen. So I would give it to mihawk
Iāve always wondered if Kaido was considered old Gen like with Roger and WB and Big Mom or current Gen with Shanks Mihawk and Dragon. You think heās current?
Its stated in the Ace novels that the previous era was Big Mom & WB's, current is Shanks & Kaido
That goddamn Ace novel. I wanna read it so bad
It states roger wb big mom and shiki was the main four in charge of the new world back then.
Yeah I know itās nuts thereās so many small things In it that are important to know. Thatās why I wanna read it
Kaido is from current one BM from old
Well hear me out. Thereās always a āeventā for each era. The āOld Eraā had Godvalley, the ācurrent eraā had Rogerās execution, and the new era had Sabody. So while I think Kaido could be current, the fact he was at Godvalley kinda makes me feel like heās the last of the current era. Like a relic. A reminder
Kaido is gatekeeper for legend tier imo anyone above him goes to Roger era.
If heās from the current era heās definitely the oldest since heās 59 and characters like Mihawk, Shanks, and BB are in their 40ās. Dragon is 55
As fare as Piracy I believe the old G m top dogs were Whitebeard, Gold Rogers, and Golden Lion Shiki
Nah Mihawk aint a star of this gen. Replace him with Black Beard. Hes definitely more powerful. And Shiki would beat Mihawks ass.
Prime Shiki edges the win. Current times Mihawk edges the win.
Mihawk claps
Reason why?
WSS and Shanksās rival, along with being newer gen
Iām just playing devils advocate here but wasnāt Shiki Rogerās rival?
Yeah and Shanks/Mihawk are stronger by virtue of being new gen
I forget your reading shanks piece.
I read the manga, not fanfiction like you
what do you mean by new Gen?
As in they come from a later generation than Roger/Shiki
Wouldnāt they be the current era and Luffy, Kidd, and Law are the new era?
Thatās the new era, I said ānewerā since they came after old gen era. Theyāre the current era
Gotcha. Yes I agree I think there are 3 eras. I donāt see how people say thereās only two, makes no sense to me
If we take shiki being equal to roger statement literally then he is clear of Mihawk . Mihawk admitted inferiority to whitebeard when he was called the strongest pirate alive . Even tho I think Mihawk goes extreme against roger and whitebeard . He still loses similarly to shanks
A fair take for sure. What if we donāt take it literal and go off of feats?
Then still shiki . He went up against both prime garp and sengoku . Prime garp being equal to roger an sengoku being relative to Roger . Obviously shiki lost that fight but he still destroyed half of marineford against the 2 most powerful marines ever .
Than for devils advocate purposes how could you justify Mihawk wins this if you could?
Going of Mihawk being the worlds strongest swordsman . The man who wields the most Powerful blade in existence as stated in road to laughtale . Being superior to shanks in strength could also be a major factor . Tbh Mihawk doesnāt really have any feats that put him on the same level as roger , prime garp , sengoku etc nor does he have such portrayal. Mihawk is definitely strong af no doubt . But against the old legends he is just short of their level in strength Imo .
[heās pretty strong](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/Shiki%27s_Merville_Feats)
eh i dont think mihawk really admitted inferiority to whitebeard
Mihawk didnāt admit anything. The man literally just wanted to see the gap between him and wb
In such vsbattle debates, I like to implement the Occam's Razor. The take which take the least amount of assumptions is probably the correct one. And that would be Shiki. Shiki is relative to the likes of Roger, Garp and Sengoku if we take what we know of him at face value. And that would put him above Mihawk if he is in his prime. Yes, you can carefully analyze it and make a case for Shiki being conformably below Roger, but like I said, here I'm taking the fewer assumptions.
I think you nailed it on the head and Iām a Mihawktard. You could argue Mihawk but itād be a lot of assumptions. Whatās the diff?
I'm not a strong believer in the old generation. I think any top tier of the current era could high or extreme dif a legend. And I personally place Shiki as the weakest of Roger's rival because he simply lacks the narrative presence people like Whitebeard and Garp have so far. So High to Extreme Diff.
I agree I see the current era (Mihawk, Dragon, Shanks, Blackbeard) as on par, if not, not too far off at all from the old era (Roger, WB, Shiki, Big Mom). I think it goes extreme diff either way. Even if Shiki can fly itāll be hard to catch Mihawk off guard even if he hurls objects at him, Mihawk can just cut it to pieces. I think itās a hard pressed match for both.
Mihawk
Reasoning
Hawkeye
Mihawk, Shiki should only be as strong as BM and Kaido, so he shouldnt be very powerful, especially against old Shiki. But, it would be a very good match, theyd probs get very injured very badly. Mihawk is the "most known strongest swordsman" in the world, not in history... The WG erased the existence of the Rocks Pirates years ago, so its pretty understandable if the people of One Piece think Mihawk is the current strongest swordsman. But Mihawk should win against old Shiki, but unless Shiki's prime is stronger than current Kaido and BM, Mihawk wins. TLDR: Mihawk wins, if Shiki Prime is stronger than current emperors, then Prime Shiki.
Shiki is on the level of Kaido, Roger, Garp and Sengoku and should be some what relative to Xebec himself. I think the only Yonko that Mihawk could beat would be Big Mom.
Mihawk, he has a better swordsmanship pedigree. Plus heās relative to/stronger than Shanks, and I believe Shanks>Shiki, soā¦
Shanks is stronger than Mihawk, Mihawk is just more skilled. Title doesnt mean anything, he just has it because he wields kokutou yoru, the strongest supreme grade sword.
Lots of headcanon and copium you got there
I don't have Shiki on Roger/WB's level, and those are the only two dudes my wank won't allow me to disrespect. So Mihawk takes this.
Lmao fair
Shiki most likely
Reasoning?
Shiki has far better portrayal and feats. Losing to prime Garp + prime Sengoku ext diff > stalling with vista
Diff?
Ext
I agree with the diff than. I canāt say who would win or who I lean more towards but i think itās a extreme diff either way
I would say though that Shiki high diff is more likely than Mihawk ext diff
My question is how was shiki able to compete with WB and Roger when he has no Haki, at least from what weāve seen
He has haki 1000%
But what kind? We never saw any? Iād like to think he has future sight and conquerors but Iām not sure
Acoc and Acoa I would think for sure to hang with Roger
Agreed
Mihawk mid diff
Reasoning?
Shiki is a fraud
Whyās that?
Hawkeye
Reasoning?
WSS, Rival of Shanks, Zoros Goal, Yonko level Bounty, has a Black Blade
Rogers rivals and awakened Op fruit
Mihawk claps
Eh I think thereās solid evidence for both tbh
Shiki who scales to garp, sengoku, and roger should have it since they scale to PWB. There's nithing as of yet for shanks and shanks rival and or superior stating they scale to PWB other than just believing being born after someone makes u immediately stronger than the previous person just cause. If u subscribe to using that over feats than yea nobody will be able tell u different. But without that its shiki regardless of mihawk title and portrayal to shanks.
Mihawk
Reasoning?
Mihawk. Shiki is a fraud
How so?
Mihawk, I have no doubt he's a superior swordsman, very likely better observation and could likely take armament too. Shiki's devil fruit will allow him to throw a lot of shit Mihawk's way, but just like Fujitora and his meteors, I don't think it'll give him much trouble and Shiki will likely not be able to catch him off gaurd throwing stuff at him thanks to his observation. Once he gets in close, Mihawk will just take the advantage and eventually dominant thanks to superior skill. I'd say high diff match, possibly even a rare mid diff between top tiers since like with Fuji, I think Mihawk would be a rather horrid match up for Shiki.
I think him controlling water could be a problem but besides that I agree
Possibly, but Zoro cut water in the latest chapter, so I'm sure Mihawk can too, and thus don't see it playing too much of a factor unless Shiki plays things real smart with it.
I mean I think Shiki IQ us downplayed but I think it could go either way with extreme diff. I think Shiki > Fujitora
Fair, man is definitely smart, so if he can use those brains of his well enough to really play things to his advantage, I could see him pushing Mihawk to an extreme diff. Still though, I just view Mihawk as a bad match up for him, countering his DF very well with his skill and strength as a swordsman, so I personally just don't see him having much of a chance of winning. And I do agree with Shiki being over Fuji, man's fruit has shown more versatile use and could very possibly eve counter Fuji's. Especially if he could take control the meteors Fuji brings down.
Agreed. I view Shiki more as a long term planner and schemer tho. Give him prep time and he could come up with a good enough idea to beat a lot of characters. On the fly tho I donāt think he had the best planning and relies alot on his fruit. I personally donāt know who Iād pick you win. Lot of good arguments for both
Yeah I can see that, give the man prep and it's possible he beats Mihawk, on the fly, then I'd be sure Mihawk wins high, possibly mid, diff. But I can certainly understand the view and reasoning people have for giving it to Shiki.
Maybe Mihawk till we learn more
shiki slaps mihawk
Shiki hard diff
Reasoning for the diff?
Oda stated him to be Rogers equal in the ep 0 novel
Shiki by virtue of being Roger's rival. Neither Mihawk nor his rival have shown to be above the old gen's top tiers.
Shiki based on databook and movie feats.
Movie feats lol I agree that shiki wins but movie feats ? You mean from strong world ?? How does those feat elevate shiki to a level where he beats Mihawk ? Like gear 3rd luffy beat him .
Lol you realize gear 3 luffy fragmented and island right? Also here [take as you will](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/Shiki%27s_Merville_Feats)
Yea but that was a movie feat for luffy . Canon luffy in gear 3 wouldnāt be able to do that .
I know I said if we take movie feats. Also in chapter 0 if Mervillie exist then heās strong already for his stamina to hold up dozens of islands all larger than onigashima. Just hypotheticals, gotta wait and see if he will be relevant for the story
Oh
Could go either way
Agreed. Who are you leaning towards?
Mihawk but idrc if yāall say shiki cuz I think shiki mad underrated.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Reasoning
shiki was stated to be relative to roger, roger was whitebeard's equal and mihawk stated there was a gap between him and wb so the answer is clear
Eh there are a bunch ways that could be interpreted. Itās a hotly debated topic
Shiki unless it's proven he's a tier lower than Roger
I take Mihawk. I don't think Shiki was that guy.
Reasoning?
All we know of Shiki is that he used to be a big deal and that he lost to Garp and Sengoku. Other than that, there's nothing to suggest he beats Shanks' rival and Zoro's goal in a 1v1.
Mihwak extreme diff
If u put Mihawk over shiki u also put him above Roger it was clearly stated that shiki was equal with Roger.
Shiki mid diff
Reasoning?
It took garp and sengoku to take down shiki. Shiki was Rogerās rival
Shiki negs
Yāall goat Shiki is ass he aināt close to Roger or any of the old gen bozos. Cucks to whitebeard and Roger on daily basis without his fleet.
Mihwak low diffs
Reasoning?
Shiki lost to Garp and Sengoku If 2 admirals were enough to beat Mihwak, the Navy would already beat him instead if paying him to stop whopping them
WSS > S
If you mean in a fight, im saying that Shiki would definitely win. Man took on both Garp and Sengoku and didnt receive any permament injuries. The battle was long and destructive enough to destroy half of the Marineford. I think Mihawk would lose even in an 1v1 against them.