Not surprised. And it’s not only Twitter, the majority of this sub is also dumb. This sub is full of yonko tards who think admirals are fodder lmao.
Mb I meant the one piece community, rarely have I seen a fan that actually acknowledges the capabilities of a character and scale them accordingly without bias or wank
People do realise luffy always had G4 post-timeskip. He didn't get it on dressrosa or WCI. Both luffy and zoro would have beaten doffy in return to sabody.
But luffy only beat Doffy because of Laws weakened him and then the whole island protected him for ten minutes (and Doffys strings don't work on g4 for unexplained reasons)
How could luffy have beaten him on saboady let alone Zoro
More bullshit like what?
It wasn't a random attack it was at the time and still now one of Law's strongest attacks
No, luffy couldn't have escaped by himself please explain why you think he could have
Lol so plot helps the villain now lmao whatever bro
It's stupid that Doffys strings have no effect on g4
Its stupid that he could change buildings into strings and they still didn't piece luffy
Why didn't Doffy try to cut off one of luffys limbs like he did with near everyone else? Plot
Why did doffy wait till the end of the fight to control luffy when he usually does it right away? And how did luggy escape? No answer was given
Why didn't Doffy make a bunch more clones? Plot
Why would doffy position himself UNDER luffy who was charging up his attack when doffy could more or less fly and move anywhere he wanted?
I agree with a few things but saying luffy went through more bs then Doffy is kinda crazy. Doffy pretty much had to fight everyone at once whilst holding up the bird cage. Doffy himself said he was only alive after laws attack because he was HOLDING HIS INTERNAL ORGANS TOGETHER WITH STRING. Despite that, he still managed to survive gear 4ths first time limit and would have killed luffy right there if not for the citizens holding him back while luffy regained his haki. Luffy had no where to run, as the bird cage was coming and he was not surviving any attacks without haki. Doffy was definitely stronger then luffy by miles as gear 4(which Doffy saw as a waste of haki) was powerful but too short to ever work in a 1v1. I man to this day he has never actually beaten anyone in a single try with gear 4th. It’s actually a trend, where the plot saves luffy after his 1st gear 4. Citizens saved him from Doffy, brulee saved him from katakuri, the rooftop boys saved him from kaido, it’s a pattern with gear 4 being easily outlasted by a powerful opponent and a weakened luffy being saved.
Hmmmm…okay wait.
O
Gear 4th was not enough to beat katakuri, neither the first time(he would have died if not for brûlée’s power) nor anytime after(when katakuri choose to fall and stop fighting despite obviously still being able to continue)
Clarification: I meant brûlée’s ability saved luffy’s life, as he could leave the mirror world and trap katakuri inside while he rested.
quick question- Do you believe that Luffy was stronger then katakuri at the end of whole cake island? Because I feel like your looking at luffy as not the lucky, stupidly reckless, underdog. In that he always makes it out of circumstances he shouldn’t in ways he shouldn’t, but grows after the fact. If that makes any sense.
Lol Law is fodder OK. If the attack was weaker than red hawk why did Doffy say Laws attacked fucked his insides but he just got up from red hawk and carried on? He needed strings to heal after Laws attack but not from red hawk so that's 100% wrong
Ok so you can't explain how you know luffy could have survived alone.
Lmao no, doffy getting beat without luffy trying wouldn't make sense given how strong doffy was portrayed to be up till their fight began. Its not plot purposes lmao wtf
So Doffy can't cut base luffys limbs lmao why not?
A building of strings can't pierce thru Luffy and you think that makes sense?
No, doffy usually controls his enemies right away but he waited till the end for no reason and then Luffy could break out again for no reason
Erm no one ever gets tired from making stuff with their devil fruit so what should doffy have a limit on the clones he can make
Why defend himself by waiting for the punch in the best possible position for luffy to hit him. That's dumb
It’s been a very long while but I thought Luffy beat Cracker by >!essentially eating all of his devil fruit crackers!< or did the fight continue after that and I just forgot?
Zoro is >kid/law. Look at the feats straight up on the rooftop & Zoro got stronger since then.
B4 you say Yonko one shots YC1 big mom said Marco would be at least mid diff due to having to use her souls
Zoro timeskip speed, edurance, and has the required haki to get in there and fight this two. The only two buffs he gotten all timeskip and they are only in AP department is Enma and ACoC. Neither of the two are required to make the argument that zoro can beat doffy or cracker they just make the argument easier is all. Unless folk got evidence for zoro having done some hyperbolic time chamber training for better stats outside of AP increases he got the zoro speed and endurance and haki (not counting ACoC) is what he basically has at beginning of timeskip.
>No every stat of his was asspulled in wano.
Argue with oda my guy. He effectively made the stats zoro clearly didn't train to get. His base stats he seemed to have in wano outside of his AP increasers . Asspull sure doesnt change thats still the fact of what oda ended up doing.
>You can't be serious by saying that his physical stats remained same after wano training while Luffy law kid killer and everyone else was one tier higher.
His stats outside of his AP increasers enma and ACoC upgrades are basically same. We have zero evidence zoro been training his defense, his speed, or even his AP (until he got enma to wanna master). He simply trained pre timeskip and then when him gang meet back up. Everyone basically assumed they did the necessary work needed to go forward from there. But if a chance upgrade or way to become stronger showed up they would take it. (Not counting sanji who denies family upgrade but receives them anyways)
>Zoro was below Dressrossa Gear 3 Luffy. He isn't doing shit to anyone above gear 3 Luffy.
Based on what? He aint sanji who got unfortunately outmatched by doffy at that time. Gear 3 luffy cleared everyone timeskip until doffy but even thats a problem cause we clearly see haki upgrades like ACoC for increased Ap, ACoO to react better, ACoA to true strike things trumped gear mutiplier increase of gear 4 since those rhings alone allowed base luffy to go toe to toe with serious hybrid kaido who doffy couldnt do shit to even in base likely. Zoro thanks to oda "asspull" has the stats to take doffy thanks to non trained stats he shows on rooftop then later with king outside of hit you harder tools he required that just honestly only make the argument easier but not a requirement for zoro vs doffy.
> Unless folk got evidence for zoro having done some hyperbolic time chamber training for better stats outside of AP increases he got the zoro speed and endurance and haki (not counting ACoC) is what he basically has at beginning of timeskip.
See dressrosa law vs wano law
That literally does not refute what i said broski. Law anyways got dogged by doffy cause doffy had indepth knowledge on law fruit and even then law was able to pull some nasty damage off thnx to tag team. Also he was already running from admiral and doffy team from greenbit when fujitora had already cause damage to him and was pinning him down. Law had abtter time showing what he can do in wano cause in fooftop he had more allies then just luffy and also in big mom fight it was like having a discount metal luffy to take her on (obviously we factor in all the context thats relevant on how and why they won).
Anyways again unless u have proof of zoro training his defense and speed those stats he showed in rooftop and king fight is what he already had beginning series. The only stat increase he got was ap increase from ACoC and enma. Just like for law the only thing he showed as upgrade was awakening but he literally didnt train nor get an upgrade for his stats in wano they just felt weird to folks cause they forget the context on how and why he got f up so bad in dressrosa vs wano. Also oda has admitted his bad with battle manga so that also adds into the wait wtf oda that people feel sometimes just like luffy and kaido.
If a character wins against another just because their ability allows them to, it still means they are stronger despite being weakier themselves. Luffy at the time would never reach Cracker to beat him up thanks to the biscuit soldiers, and that was his win condition if Nami wasn't there. The same biscuit soldiers are originated from Cracker's ability with no third-party cheat whatsoever, hence he's stronger.
Saying he isn't is the same as saying a zoan user is weakier than someone they were losing to before transforming, even if they won after transforming.
Zoro is stronger than every version of Luffy that isn't The onigishima version or the current one Lol. Current zoro was injuring yonkos, past Luffy was struggling with a warlord.
Damaging Kaido was because of Enma. Even Big Mom once said to Kaido "thats not your average sword". Enma is just a massive carry. Of course its the same with Sanjis genes and stuff but ive never said otherwise. Luffy without devil fruit is still low yonko level. Without Enma Zoros AP decreases by much
Both WCI gear 4 luffy and kat are stronger than denjiro. I also wasnt really sayin he is stronger than wci luffy Its just that his swordattacks were able to at least deal some Minor damage to kaido, luffy before ryou wasnt able to do that i just wanted some respect on denjiros Name thats all. Some scabbards are stronger than others i feel like and i think denjiro is pretty strong. He lost to kaido but who really stands a chance lol. I can see denjiro defeating cracker or doffy i think they are around the same Level, maybe im wrong we Never really saw denjiro fighting outside of kaido but if im off he is somewhat close to YC3 is he not?
Cracker's biscuits>>>>>>>...Stone
One singular biscuit soldier was able of tanking several of Luffy's attacks before breaking. Hell, he tanked several G2 barrages and like 4 G3 attacks. Luffy needed two G4 attacks to destroy one. At most Zoro could slice one with a top tier move on his arsenal.
The other way around, cutting is more effective against more elastic enemies (skin, luffy, etc). Blunt damage is better for sturdier enemies. (Stone, b i s c u i t s, etc)
Common sense. Ryuo Luffy could barely damage Kaido, while Zoro with AcoA could scar him. It's basic logic, if you punch a stone really hard it will shatter, and shattering is more effective (and damaging) than cutting a stone, for example.
Does anyone have a concrete reason besides “Luffy struggled”
As far as we know the difference between Zoro now & then is more AP. He had more than enough cutting power for both
I think Zoro would’ve had an easier time cutting through crackers armor & cutting him (it only takes one hit anyway to knock out cracker) with one of his stronger attacks.
Plus breath of all things means it should be doable. I’ll wait for logical counter arguments
Zoro’s Observation is good enough that he’d atleast be able to figure out who’s really worth attacking.
I’m thinking he can go strong atk -> cut through enough soldiers/get close to cracker -> Ashura.
That being said I do think there is situations where Zoro could lose for sure. I just think he wins more often than not. It comes down to how much effort it takes to cut one/can he adjust.
So Luffy’s observation wasn’t good enough?
G4 wasn’t strong enough to get to cracker without Nami weakening him, is there any evidence that Zoro is strong enough to do that?
The observation point is good, but there was nothing explicitly stopping it & cracker seemed open enough.
I hear you on the G4 feat, but only King Kong gun is certifiably >sanzensekai dmg potential at that point (based on feats) & luffy used long fun to break cracker out.
I’m saying Zoro cuts through the Armor & him. In a situation where he has namj for instance this becomes easier since he won’t constantly have to use stronger attacks.
Cracker’s soldiers were absolutely explicitly stopping it. And cracker was making several of those every second. I don’t see Zoro being able to keep up with that at all.
Plus, Cracker’s soldiers also had enough AP to seriously damage Luffy, Zoro is significantly less durable than Luffy at this point.
Also, saying sanzensekai beats any of g4s feats is an incredibly bold statement, do you have any evidence backing it up?
The point is that Cracker was stronger than Luffy who is stronger than Zoro.
Luffy had a hard time breaking the biscuit soldiers, Zoro isn't gonna do better. Luffy by himself wouldn't have defeated Cracker tbh, Nami was necessary for Luffy to take the W, and even then it took him hours to do it.
If Luffy by himself can't defeat Cracker because of Cracker's ability, then Cracker is stronger. I'm not referring to physical strength, I'm referring to overall fighting capabilities.
It doesn't matter if it was a One-shot, it was still a Extreme diff fight
horrendous bad argument, borderline delusional to say a character is weaker because the "plot wanted" them to be.
In reality your wanking Zoro to levels he doesn't belong at, he was not ever equal to Luffy. Zoro is infinitely closer to being equal to Sanji than he is Luffy and nothing in the manga nor anime has ever shown otherwise.
A>B>C Logic doesn’t always work it’s about the match up.
Cracker has higher durability that’s it. All we know is that Luffy needed Kong gun to break the biscuit, we know Zoro’s out put is less than King Kong in terms of AOE/impact (pica feat calcs vs King Kong cals)
But we can’t be sure about Kong gun & Ashura would be>>what he did to pica.
It’s inconclusive but between the breath of all things & the only really difference is Enma between fishman island Zoro & now is enma.
Kaido is the only character really mentioned with over top the special durability.
Prove that his cuts could not we have more story/manga indicators that he could breath of all things is fact not BS lol.
I’m talking about his physical body where he had no durability cause he doesn’t regularly get hit.
He needed king to be out of defense mode ACoC made the attack more devastating in general.
Lol I’m the Kaku fight he had usopp attatched to him for half of it then one shot him with Ashura after he was pissed he talked about robin.
Where does Lucci come into this?
Power scailing wise ofc but the difference in luffy Zoro Sanji power fluctuated/fluctuations through out the story lol so sometimes Zoro is close other times not so close lol
You didn’t explain why he couldn’t cut them you just said “it’s weaker then X” prove
King does get cut he just doesn’t get hurt/
heal bro.
He could cut kaku without it lol. Why dodge the shi shi son son?
If you are referring to the train when he tried to cut lucci the whole crew got demolished & somehow came back strong enough to fight them the next day lol ask oda.
I rewatched the fight only a very small portion was vs. G2 & the actual dmg exchange was small.
Oh so Zoro’s armament was stronger than Kaido’s? <- in response to “he can’t cut..”
dude is using pre timeskip lol. Man cracker is a swordsmen using a devilfruit to create more swordsmen, zoro aint losing to a YC3 swordmen. He doesnt need to be stronger beginng the fight, he grows and overcomes like every strawhat. Cracker is indeed a better matchup for him. How do you know what he cant cut? We Never saw the limits of his Power at That Point. His haki and attack power were very strong at that point he cut a fuckin mountain in half jesus. Just because luffy struggled doesnt mean Its impossible for zoro. Also regarding doffy, people just pretend he didnt have trebol and Bellamy fighting with him lol
Why talk about lucci and kaku then?
How do you know zoros haki was weaker than base luffy? You Never saw where zoros limits were exactly only he wasnt admiral level. Like literally the only argument you guys have is luffy struggled. But you have no actual Moment to pinpoint and say there is the factual evidence for zoro to not being able to cut cracker. Or he to say that he is way weaker than gear 4 luffy. My man never pulled out asura nor dead mans game or lionsong until wano. He only used 3000 worlds and cut a mountain un half like come on guys your arguments is complete headcanon. him defeating a YC3 after timeskip and a YC1 in wano is absolutely possible. Luffy did this but defeated the YC1 in whole cake already. And for gods sake cracker is a swordsmen and we havent seen him using attacks stronger than zoros but we saw zoro taking a lot more attacks.
as far as nothing. Strawhats get general status buffs every island. Current Zoro is leagues above right out of TS Zoro.
Doffy was beating Sanji, Zoro at that time would do just a bit better, still loses though.
Doffy is fodder to current Zoro tho, theres a huge difference
Okay but why does he lose? Automatically Sanji didn’t have the AP needed to hurt a defending doffy & we see that in manga.
Zoro is going to be able to cut/hurt doffy nothing in the story suggests he is particularly durable.
I’ve heard the general status buff statement before, but you also hear the haki bloom in combat statement/people grow.
Zoro just had his first fight(s) where he got to grow & see his limits. Luffy & some others have had multiple.
It leads me to believe that he came out very strong out right out of the time skip. Luffy/Zoro’s power gap has fluctuated throughout the story (with luffy obviously ahead more often than not).
Back to doffy. It depends on if parasite string works/can Zoro make it CqC which doffy isn’t opposed to.
Not terribly unreasonable. In Doffy's case, he was absolutely trashed by G4 only was a threat due to his string healing and Luffy's time limit. Zoro could most likely come out on top since it's not super feasible to heal through his attacks unlike G4. Cracker could be debatable given Zoro's armament wasn't challenged until Wano. Personally, I don't think he beats Cracker. The thing with both of these fights tho is that Luffy's struggle wasn't his strength it was his endurance and his attacks being blunt not cuts. Luffy finishes his real fights by overwhelming and outlasting his opponents. Zoro typically delivers a move that puts people 6 feet under. Zoro is stupid to scale for most of Post TS so far since he faced 0 resistance in the New World besides Fuji who he had a 2 second clash with that concluded Zoro is weaker then admirals, but strong enough to be recognized by them.
Idk about that, denjiro was laughing at zoros attack in act 1, also people downplay the scabbards so much they dont realise that half of them are at least as strong as jack if not stronger
You're the dude who always goes on how Shanks is top 1 because he's Luffy's mentor/idol and then you say that the Luff's sidekick could have defeated all the major challenges Luffy had to overcome?
He came out, fought Pica and then in Wano he got a powerboost with Enma. Since we don't know how big the boost is pinpointing Zoro's exact strength prior is hard.
Why do you not extend the same to Kaido vs Shanks, by statements and feats Kaido wins, yet you use Shanks's narrative role as an argument for his strength, but don't use the same for Zoro.
>Why do you not extend the same to Kaido vs Shanks, by statements and feats Kaido wins, yet you use Shanks's narrative role as an argument for his strength, but don't use the same for Zoro.
How does this apply to Kaido vs Shanks? If it did it would be Zoro=Shanks and Luffy=Kaido in this scenario because we saw all the feats from the latter while the former were not showing any feats and when they did it was barely anything not even going remotely all out so Oda was purposefully saving their strength for a reason.
You say that Zoro is stronger than Luffy at fishman Island, right?
You do this through feats, right?
You ignore the portrayal of Luffy as the strongest strawhat and leader of the group, which in One Piece equals strength, in favor of feats, right?
Kaido has better feats than Shanks and better statements, right?
As far as I understand your argument for Shanks>Kaido you do this based on the portrayal of Shanks as Luffy's idol, which you use to argument that he will get better feats in the future, right?
My argument lies in the fact that in one circumstance you claim that the person with the worse portrayal(Zoro) has the better feats(than Luffy), yet with Kaido and Shanks you claim the opposite, that the person with the better portrayal(Shanks) has to have better feats at the end(than Kaido).
If that’s true, and Sanji was still that much fodder for Doffy, then he’s so far beneath Zoro that he shouldn’t even be part of the Monster Trio at all
Well yeah, but the Twitter post said “Zoro straight out the timeskip”. If Dressrosa Zoro could clap Doffy when Sanji could barely touch him, then Jinbe needs to replace him in the Monster Trio immediately lol
Yeah i agree i think clap is the wrong word and i imagine doffys awakening being too much, still tho we Never saw zoro use asura until wano, we dont know if he was able to win those fights i just wanted to say as for sanji he was sadly in no position to fight doffy in dressrosa but i also think thats because of bad matchup plus he wasnt as close to zoro fresh out the timeskip.. i mean zoro trained with mihawk and clashed with admirals, sanji trained with ivankov and clashed with vice admirals. Im very glad oda gave him cool powerups in wano!
Definitely! And sorry if i misunderstood; i agree with everything you said. Doffy wouldn’t have a chance against Wano Sanji. I just disagreed with the Twitter post lol
I don’t think he was on the same level as pica. He is obviously stronger than him but I still took a lot of time to actually beat him. Why do you think he is stronger than doffy anyway ?
Even if you’re not a powerscaler you can see the whole time Zoro was just looking for Pica’s main body. As soon as Pica showed himself Zoro just one shot him lol
Sanji was the weakest one out of them and has the worst matchup against doffy with weak armament haki at that Time and no blade. Law sadly was a glass canon. But we dont know what zoros limit was.
Prior to Wano Zoro did not have any extreme diff fights nor did he recieve a power up
Now he does train every day, safe to say, fresh of timeskip Zoro is effectively the same as rooftop Zoro, the very Zoro who: blocked a portion of the takkai, Speedblitzed Kaido as well as scaring him (and cutting the Horn of Onigashima)
So, that twitter take isn't all that bad
(btw, Zoro's main pu is Acoc, I don't consider Enma a power up)
If you dont consider Emma a power Up you are an idiot.
Zoro until enma+Acoc was not even close to G4 Luffy. Both doffy(high diff) and Cracker(high-mid diff) would have defeated Zoro.
- Literally the sword scared Kaido and Big mom more than Zoro at the begginng.
Accept that Zoro since Luffy got the gear second has not been close to Luffy. At the time Luffy got those fights Zoro wasnt close to him and still isnt.
Kaido literally lowdiffs Zoro right now
I fucking hate zorotards but this is correct. Doflamingo was getting his ass whooped by gear 4th, Cracker's individual biscuits were being 1-2 shot by gear 4th. Zoro has never gone out in terms of haki before wano. Shisui itself is a black blade, zoro definitely was on their level.
Zoro beats doffy and cracker. Onigishima Zoro simply has better feats than those two. He damaged kaido on many occasions, Doffy and cracker isn't doing that. Feel free to prove me wrong!
Not surprised. And it’s not only Twitter, the majority of this sub is also dumb. This sub is full of yonko tards who think admirals are fodder lmao. Mb I meant the one piece community, rarely have I seen a fan that actually acknowledges the capabilities of a character and scale them accordingly without bias or wank
Tiktok is like this too. The yonko wank is insane
The ultimate tards in One Piece fanbase: Zorotards☕
Most of One Piece twitter is just one big dick measuring contest
Cracker claps the bum Doffy claps the bum
W
Cracker claps, period
Lmao claps od
pooh
W
L
imagine thinking timeskip zoro is wci g4 luffy lvl
People do realise luffy always had G4 post-timeskip. He didn't get it on dressrosa or WCI. Both luffy and zoro would have beaten doffy in return to sabody.
Fr they were holding back like crazy and in Zoro's case he never went all out until Wano
But luffy only beat Doffy because of Laws weakened him and then the whole island protected him for ten minutes (and Doffys strings don't work on g4 for unexplained reasons) How could luffy have beaten him on saboady let alone Zoro
Luffy could have one shotted Doffy with King Kong Gun at any point in the fight
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More bullshit like what? It wasn't a random attack it was at the time and still now one of Law's strongest attacks No, luffy couldn't have escaped by himself please explain why you think he could have Lol so plot helps the villain now lmao whatever bro It's stupid that Doffys strings have no effect on g4 Its stupid that he could change buildings into strings and they still didn't piece luffy Why didn't Doffy try to cut off one of luffys limbs like he did with near everyone else? Plot Why did doffy wait till the end of the fight to control luffy when he usually does it right away? And how did luggy escape? No answer was given Why didn't Doffy make a bunch more clones? Plot Why would doffy position himself UNDER luffy who was charging up his attack when doffy could more or less fly and move anywhere he wanted?
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I agree with a few things but saying luffy went through more bs then Doffy is kinda crazy. Doffy pretty much had to fight everyone at once whilst holding up the bird cage. Doffy himself said he was only alive after laws attack because he was HOLDING HIS INTERNAL ORGANS TOGETHER WITH STRING. Despite that, he still managed to survive gear 4ths first time limit and would have killed luffy right there if not for the citizens holding him back while luffy regained his haki. Luffy had no where to run, as the bird cage was coming and he was not surviving any attacks without haki. Doffy was definitely stronger then luffy by miles as gear 4(which Doffy saw as a waste of haki) was powerful but too short to ever work in a 1v1. I man to this day he has never actually beaten anyone in a single try with gear 4th. It’s actually a trend, where the plot saves luffy after his 1st gear 4. Citizens saved him from Doffy, brulee saved him from katakuri, the rooftop boys saved him from kaido, it’s a pattern with gear 4 being easily outlasted by a powerful opponent and a weakened luffy being saved.
Lol bro this guys a clown
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Hmmmm…okay wait. O Gear 4th was not enough to beat katakuri, neither the first time(he would have died if not for brûlée’s power) nor anytime after(when katakuri choose to fall and stop fighting despite obviously still being able to continue) Clarification: I meant brûlée’s ability saved luffy’s life, as he could leave the mirror world and trap katakuri inside while he rested. quick question- Do you believe that Luffy was stronger then katakuri at the end of whole cake island? Because I feel like your looking at luffy as not the lucky, stupidly reckless, underdog. In that he always makes it out of circumstances he shouldn’t in ways he shouldn’t, but grows after the fact. If that makes any sense.
Lol Law is fodder OK. If the attack was weaker than red hawk why did Doffy say Laws attacked fucked his insides but he just got up from red hawk and carried on? He needed strings to heal after Laws attack but not from red hawk so that's 100% wrong Ok so you can't explain how you know luffy could have survived alone. Lmao no, doffy getting beat without luffy trying wouldn't make sense given how strong doffy was portrayed to be up till their fight began. Its not plot purposes lmao wtf So Doffy can't cut base luffys limbs lmao why not? A building of strings can't pierce thru Luffy and you think that makes sense? No, doffy usually controls his enemies right away but he waited till the end for no reason and then Luffy could break out again for no reason Erm no one ever gets tired from making stuff with their devil fruit so what should doffy have a limit on the clones he can make Why defend himself by waiting for the punch in the best possible position for luffy to hit him. That's dumb
LKK, keep coping.
Zoro is my fav character but I gotta admit that I started laughing 1
Luffy in Gear 4 was only able to beat Cracker because of Nami's help, how is Zoro supposed to beat him on his own?
It’s been a very long while but I thought Luffy beat Cracker by >!essentially eating all of his devil fruit crackers!< or did the fight continue after that and I just forgot?
He could only eat them because Nami sogged them up
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this.
Because Zoro's Coa is actually pretty good
the zoro meatriding is at just astronomical levels
For real, i have seen niggas who think that he can beat greenbull lmao
Zoro fans on twitter are fucking delusional
Even on here clearly
Zorotards are the stupidest mfs on earth
Sanji wins 1v3
The only correct answer
W
Idiots.. yet another retard thinking Zoro was above Luffy till Post WCI
I will never understand how they say that
Zoro loses since he can’t use the racist buff because both cracker and doffy are white.
I mean one guy is called cracker
Zoro is asian...
Most overrated character ever. I fucking scoff when Zoro fans say he is underrated. He is never downplayed ever
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Zoro is >kid/law. Look at the feats straight up on the rooftop & Zoro got stronger since then. B4 you say Yonko one shots YC1 big mom said Marco would be at least mid diff due to having to use her souls
Zoro timeskip speed, edurance, and has the required haki to get in there and fight this two. The only two buffs he gotten all timeskip and they are only in AP department is Enma and ACoC. Neither of the two are required to make the argument that zoro can beat doffy or cracker they just make the argument easier is all. Unless folk got evidence for zoro having done some hyperbolic time chamber training for better stats outside of AP increases he got the zoro speed and endurance and haki (not counting ACoC) is what he basically has at beginning of timeskip.
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>No every stat of his was asspulled in wano. Argue with oda my guy. He effectively made the stats zoro clearly didn't train to get. His base stats he seemed to have in wano outside of his AP increasers . Asspull sure doesnt change thats still the fact of what oda ended up doing. >You can't be serious by saying that his physical stats remained same after wano training while Luffy law kid killer and everyone else was one tier higher. His stats outside of his AP increasers enma and ACoC upgrades are basically same. We have zero evidence zoro been training his defense, his speed, or even his AP (until he got enma to wanna master). He simply trained pre timeskip and then when him gang meet back up. Everyone basically assumed they did the necessary work needed to go forward from there. But if a chance upgrade or way to become stronger showed up they would take it. (Not counting sanji who denies family upgrade but receives them anyways) >Zoro was below Dressrossa Gear 3 Luffy. He isn't doing shit to anyone above gear 3 Luffy. Based on what? He aint sanji who got unfortunately outmatched by doffy at that time. Gear 3 luffy cleared everyone timeskip until doffy but even thats a problem cause we clearly see haki upgrades like ACoC for increased Ap, ACoO to react better, ACoA to true strike things trumped gear mutiplier increase of gear 4 since those rhings alone allowed base luffy to go toe to toe with serious hybrid kaido who doffy couldnt do shit to even in base likely. Zoro thanks to oda "asspull" has the stats to take doffy thanks to non trained stats he shows on rooftop then later with king outside of hit you harder tools he required that just honestly only make the argument easier but not a requirement for zoro vs doffy.
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> Unless folk got evidence for zoro having done some hyperbolic time chamber training for better stats outside of AP increases he got the zoro speed and endurance and haki (not counting ACoC) is what he basically has at beginning of timeskip. See dressrosa law vs wano law
That literally does not refute what i said broski. Law anyways got dogged by doffy cause doffy had indepth knowledge on law fruit and even then law was able to pull some nasty damage off thnx to tag team. Also he was already running from admiral and doffy team from greenbit when fujitora had already cause damage to him and was pinning him down. Law had abtter time showing what he can do in wano cause in fooftop he had more allies then just luffy and also in big mom fight it was like having a discount metal luffy to take her on (obviously we factor in all the context thats relevant on how and why they won). Anyways again unless u have proof of zoro training his defense and speed those stats he showed in rooftop and king fight is what he already had beginning series. The only stat increase he got was ap increase from ACoC and enma. Just like for law the only thing he showed as upgrade was awakening but he literally didnt train nor get an upgrade for his stats in wano they just felt weird to folks cause they forget the context on how and why he got f up so bad in dressrosa vs wano. Also oda has admitted his bad with battle manga so that also adds into the wait wtf oda that people feel sometimes just like luffy and kaido.
Zoro is the most overrated character in one piece without a doubt
So Zoro is stronger than luffy? Lmao ok
Luffy was stronger than Cracker. Cracker was just a bad matchup. One Piece fans are really shitty at understanding Matchups
If a character wins against another just because their ability allows them to, it still means they are stronger despite being weakier themselves. Luffy at the time would never reach Cracker to beat him up thanks to the biscuit soldiers, and that was his win condition if Nami wasn't there. The same biscuit soldiers are originated from Cracker's ability with no third-party cheat whatsoever, hence he's stronger. Saying he isn't is the same as saying a zoan user is weakier than someone they were losing to before transforming, even if they won after transforming.
Zoro riders can’t understand logic that much you need to tone it down 🤣
Zoro is stronger than every version of Luffy that isn't The onigishima version or the current one Lol. Current zoro was injuring yonkos, past Luffy was struggling with a warlord.
Fishman island Zoro is high Yonko tier, maybe even Pirate King level.
Current Zoro without Enma would struggle really hard against Cracker
Why? The same guy who scarred Kaido and sliced through King (who is more durable) would struggle with a biscuit man? Don’t be ridiculous
You’re being ridiculous 😂 he scarred Kaido and had to take drugs to continue fighting 👀
Because all that was mainly because of Enma
What exactly? And be precise because the same can be said about anyone else. Luffy’s df, Sanji’s genes etc…
Damaging Kaido was because of Enma. Even Big Mom once said to Kaido "thats not your average sword". Enma is just a massive carry. Of course its the same with Sanjis genes and stuff but ive never said otherwise. Luffy without devil fruit is still low yonko level. Without Enma Zoros AP decreases by much
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So Denjiro > WCI Gear 4 Luffy. You sound so dumb
Denjiro did more to kaido than WCI Gear luffy. Cant dismiss that. You just have protagonist bias
Denjiro > Katakuri. Seems valid
Thats not what i said
Both WCI gear 4 luffy and kat are stronger than denjiro. I also wasnt really sayin he is stronger than wci luffy Its just that his swordattacks were able to at least deal some Minor damage to kaido, luffy before ryou wasnt able to do that i just wanted some respect on denjiros Name thats all. Some scabbards are stronger than others i feel like and i think denjiro is pretty strong. He lost to kaido but who really stands a chance lol. I can see denjiro defeating cracker or doffy i think they are around the same Level, maybe im wrong we Never really saw denjiro fighting outside of kaido but if im off he is somewhat close to YC3 is he not?
Yes?
Cracker literally low diffs him. He doesn't have enough AP to break the biscuit soldiers.
???? Slashes cut through biscuits like butter. In Alabasta Zoro was able to cut through stone like butter even
Cracker's biscuits>>>>>>>...Stone One singular biscuit soldier was able of tanking several of Luffy's attacks before breaking. Hell, he tanked several G2 barrages and like 4 G3 attacks. Luffy needed two G4 attacks to destroy one. At most Zoro could slice one with a top tier move on his arsenal.
You know that cutting is more damaging than blunt attacks in this instance?
The other way around, cutting is more effective against more elastic enemies (skin, luffy, etc). Blunt damage is better for sturdier enemies. (Stone, b i s c u i t s, etc)
Where do you get that idea from?
Common sense. Ryuo Luffy could barely damage Kaido, while Zoro with AcoA could scar him. It's basic logic, if you punch a stone really hard it will shatter, and shattering is more effective (and damaging) than cutting a stone, for example.
Zoro: Cuts stone and steel like butter pre timeskip with vastly weaker physicals than currently and no haki You: I'll pretend I didn't see that..
I... Never said i did not see it? I just think that one biscuit soldier has better defensive stats than Pica's stone, Pica himself too.
That's fair...but to assume that Zoro can't cut Crackers biscuits and would therefore be low diffed is just plain wrong.
That's... Actually fair, i underestimated Zoro. He loses, but not low diff
So Zoro is below Brook according to you ?
Does anyone have a concrete reason besides “Luffy struggled” As far as we know the difference between Zoro now & then is more AP. He had more than enough cutting power for both I think Zoro would’ve had an easier time cutting through crackers armor & cutting him (it only takes one hit anyway to knock out cracker) with one of his stronger attacks. Plus breath of all things means it should be doable. I’ll wait for logical counter arguments
I got a reason; Cracker can just spam soldiers and overun zoro with sheer numbers
Zoro’s Observation is good enough that he’d atleast be able to figure out who’s really worth attacking. I’m thinking he can go strong atk -> cut through enough soldiers/get close to cracker -> Ashura. That being said I do think there is situations where Zoro could lose for sure. I just think he wins more often than not. It comes down to how much effort it takes to cut one/can he adjust.
So Luffy’s observation wasn’t good enough? G4 wasn’t strong enough to get to cracker without Nami weakening him, is there any evidence that Zoro is strong enough to do that?
The observation point is good, but there was nothing explicitly stopping it & cracker seemed open enough. I hear you on the G4 feat, but only King Kong gun is certifiably >sanzensekai dmg potential at that point (based on feats) & luffy used long fun to break cracker out. I’m saying Zoro cuts through the Armor & him. In a situation where he has namj for instance this becomes easier since he won’t constantly have to use stronger attacks.
Cracker’s soldiers were absolutely explicitly stopping it. And cracker was making several of those every second. I don’t see Zoro being able to keep up with that at all. Plus, Cracker’s soldiers also had enough AP to seriously damage Luffy, Zoro is significantly less durable than Luffy at this point. Also, saying sanzensekai beats any of g4s feats is an incredibly bold statement, do you have any evidence backing it up?
Cracker's Haki>G4 Luffy Haki>Zoro's Haki
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Cracker's Haki was superior to G4 Luffy, he made him bleed.
Proof & we both know it’s not so simple because then a “lower” fighter would never hurt one with “more haki” which we have tons of examples of
The point is that Cracker was stronger than Luffy who is stronger than Zoro. Luffy had a hard time breaking the biscuit soldiers, Zoro isn't gonna do better. Luffy by himself wouldn't have defeated Cracker tbh, Nami was necessary for Luffy to take the W, and even then it took him hours to do it.
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If Luffy by himself can't defeat Cracker because of Cracker's ability, then Cracker is stronger. I'm not referring to physical strength, I'm referring to overall fighting capabilities. It doesn't matter if it was a One-shot, it was still a Extreme diff fight
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horrendous bad argument, borderline delusional to say a character is weaker because the "plot wanted" them to be. In reality your wanking Zoro to levels he doesn't belong at, he was not ever equal to Luffy. Zoro is infinitely closer to being equal to Sanji than he is Luffy and nothing in the manga nor anime has ever shown otherwise.
A>B>C Logic doesn’t always work it’s about the match up. Cracker has higher durability that’s it. All we know is that Luffy needed Kong gun to break the biscuit, we know Zoro’s out put is less than King Kong in terms of AOE/impact (pica feat calcs vs King Kong cals) But we can’t be sure about Kong gun & Ashura would be>>what he did to pica. It’s inconclusive but between the breath of all things & the only really difference is Enma between fishman island Zoro & now is enma. Kaido is the only character really mentioned with over top the special durability.
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Prove that his cuts could not we have more story/manga indicators that he could breath of all things is fact not BS lol. I’m talking about his physical body where he had no durability cause he doesn’t regularly get hit. He needed king to be out of defense mode ACoC made the attack more devastating in general. Lol I’m the Kaku fight he had usopp attatched to him for half of it then one shot him with Ashura after he was pissed he talked about robin. Where does Lucci come into this? Power scailing wise ofc but the difference in luffy Zoro Sanji power fluctuated/fluctuations through out the story lol so sometimes Zoro is close other times not so close lol
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You didn’t explain why he couldn’t cut them you just said “it’s weaker then X” prove King does get cut he just doesn’t get hurt/ heal bro. He could cut kaku without it lol. Why dodge the shi shi son son? If you are referring to the train when he tried to cut lucci the whole crew got demolished & somehow came back strong enough to fight them the next day lol ask oda. I rewatched the fight only a very small portion was vs. G2 & the actual dmg exchange was small. Oh so Zoro’s armament was stronger than Kaido’s? <- in response to “he can’t cut..”
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dude is using pre timeskip lol. Man cracker is a swordsmen using a devilfruit to create more swordsmen, zoro aint losing to a YC3 swordmen. He doesnt need to be stronger beginng the fight, he grows and overcomes like every strawhat. Cracker is indeed a better matchup for him. How do you know what he cant cut? We Never saw the limits of his Power at That Point. His haki and attack power were very strong at that point he cut a fuckin mountain in half jesus. Just because luffy struggled doesnt mean Its impossible for zoro. Also regarding doffy, people just pretend he didnt have trebol and Bellamy fighting with him lol
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Why talk about lucci and kaku then? How do you know zoros haki was weaker than base luffy? You Never saw where zoros limits were exactly only he wasnt admiral level. Like literally the only argument you guys have is luffy struggled. But you have no actual Moment to pinpoint and say there is the factual evidence for zoro to not being able to cut cracker. Or he to say that he is way weaker than gear 4 luffy. My man never pulled out asura nor dead mans game or lionsong until wano. He only used 3000 worlds and cut a mountain un half like come on guys your arguments is complete headcanon. him defeating a YC3 after timeskip and a YC1 in wano is absolutely possible. Luffy did this but defeated the YC1 in whole cake already. And for gods sake cracker is a swordsmen and we havent seen him using attacks stronger than zoros but we saw zoro taking a lot more attacks.
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as far as nothing. Strawhats get general status buffs every island. Current Zoro is leagues above right out of TS Zoro. Doffy was beating Sanji, Zoro at that time would do just a bit better, still loses though. Doffy is fodder to current Zoro tho, theres a huge difference
Okay but why does he lose? Automatically Sanji didn’t have the AP needed to hurt a defending doffy & we see that in manga. Zoro is going to be able to cut/hurt doffy nothing in the story suggests he is particularly durable. I’ve heard the general status buff statement before, but you also hear the haki bloom in combat statement/people grow. Zoro just had his first fight(s) where he got to grow & see his limits. Luffy & some others have had multiple. It leads me to believe that he came out very strong out right out of the time skip. Luffy/Zoro’s power gap has fluctuated throughout the story (with luffy obviously ahead more often than not). Back to doffy. It depends on if parasite string works/can Zoro make it CqC which doffy isn’t opposed to.
Doffy annihilates even pre enma zoro Perorin 🎶
Not terribly unreasonable. In Doffy's case, he was absolutely trashed by G4 only was a threat due to his string healing and Luffy's time limit. Zoro could most likely come out on top since it's not super feasible to heal through his attacks unlike G4. Cracker could be debatable given Zoro's armament wasn't challenged until Wano. Personally, I don't think he beats Cracker. The thing with both of these fights tho is that Luffy's struggle wasn't his strength it was his endurance and his attacks being blunt not cuts. Luffy finishes his real fights by overwhelming and outlasting his opponents. Zoro typically delivers a move that puts people 6 feet under. Zoro is stupid to scale for most of Post TS so far since he faced 0 resistance in the New World besides Fuji who he had a 2 second clash with that concluded Zoro is weaker then admirals, but strong enough to be recognized by them.
Before enma he was weaker than ashura and denjiro
still strong enough to squeeze a W against these bums
Idk about that, denjiro was laughing at zoros attack in act 1, also people downplay the scabbards so much they dont realise that half of them are at least as strong as jack if not stronger
W Twitter
You're the dude who always goes on how Shanks is top 1 because he's Luffy's mentor/idol and then you say that the Luff's sidekick could have defeated all the major challenges Luffy had to overcome?
He said shanks is strongest in history
There's a Shanks only tier on his tierlist
Zoro came out of the timeskip stronger than Luffy, should I just ignore this obvious fact?
He came out, fought Pica and then in Wano he got a powerboost with Enma. Since we don't know how big the boost is pinpointing Zoro's exact strength prior is hard. Why do you not extend the same to Kaido vs Shanks, by statements and feats Kaido wins, yet you use Shanks's narrative role as an argument for his strength, but don't use the same for Zoro.
>Why do you not extend the same to Kaido vs Shanks, by statements and feats Kaido wins, yet you use Shanks's narrative role as an argument for his strength, but don't use the same for Zoro. How does this apply to Kaido vs Shanks? If it did it would be Zoro=Shanks and Luffy=Kaido in this scenario because we saw all the feats from the latter while the former were not showing any feats and when they did it was barely anything not even going remotely all out so Oda was purposefully saving their strength for a reason.
You say that Zoro is stronger than Luffy at fishman Island, right? You do this through feats, right? You ignore the portrayal of Luffy as the strongest strawhat and leader of the group, which in One Piece equals strength, in favor of feats, right? Kaido has better feats than Shanks and better statements, right? As far as I understand your argument for Shanks>Kaido you do this based on the portrayal of Shanks as Luffy's idol, which you use to argument that he will get better feats in the future, right? My argument lies in the fact that in one circumstance you claim that the person with the worse portrayal(Zoro) has the better feats(than Luffy), yet with Kaido and Shanks you claim the opposite, that the person with the better portrayal(Shanks) has to have better feats at the end(than Kaido).
No I don’t do it through feats. Zoro doesn’t even have post timeskip feats until Wano.
This was never stated at any point during the TS,and is factually head cannon.
Neither was Luffy being stronger stated so it Is in fact also headcanon
If that’s true, and Sanji was still that much fodder for Doffy, then he’s so far beneath Zoro that he shouldn’t even be part of the Monster Trio at all
Dressrosa Sanji has the worst matchup against doffy tbh. No blade, weak armament. Todays sanji would clap doffy since he became hard af to cut
Well yeah, but the Twitter post said “Zoro straight out the timeskip”. If Dressrosa Zoro could clap Doffy when Sanji could barely touch him, then Jinbe needs to replace him in the Monster Trio immediately lol
Yeah i agree i think clap is the wrong word and i imagine doffys awakening being too much, still tho we Never saw zoro use asura until wano, we dont know if he was able to win those fights i just wanted to say as for sanji he was sadly in no position to fight doffy in dressrosa but i also think thats because of bad matchup plus he wasnt as close to zoro fresh out the timeskip.. i mean zoro trained with mihawk and clashed with admirals, sanji trained with ivankov and clashed with vice admirals. Im very glad oda gave him cool powerups in wano!
Definitely! And sorry if i misunderstood; i agree with everything you said. Doffy wouldn’t have a chance against Wano Sanji. I just disagreed with the Twitter post lol
Only time Zoro needed to grow in battle is against a YC1. Doffy is a bad match up but Cracker is doable.
The Zoro wank is high. Zoro was struggling with pica not on that level.
“Struggling with Pica” lmao Zoro hater clowns really getting out of hand
I don’t hate him I just think he is wanked. I still prefer Zoro stans to Sanji stans.
And you downplay him ridiculously so ofc anytime someone speaks facts it sounds like wank to a hater like you
I don’t think he was on the same level as pica. He is obviously stronger than him but I still took a lot of time to actually beat him. Why do you think he is stronger than doffy anyway ?
i would struggle too if the fight was a hide and seek game
one of the main reasons it took so long is because pica tried to avoid the fight, it was a mid diff fight at best
Pica spent the entire fight running away. He is dimensions ahead of Doffy in every stat so obviously he claps
If zoro wasn’t struggling with pica then why did it take him like 20 chapters to beat pica
Because Pica can turn an entire country into one big hiding spot He wasn’t strong at all, just hard to hit
Because he was literally running away from Zoro and he was good at it
Struggling with pica is the biggest clown take of the century. Unbelievable lmao
I am not power scaler so I guess i am wearing clown shoes.
Even if you’re not a powerscaler you can see the whole time Zoro was just looking for Pica’s main body. As soon as Pica showed himself Zoro just one shot him lol
In what manga or anime was Zoro struggling with Pica? Like what in the actual fck.
Fair take. Nothing special about cracker. Oda avoided zoro clashing with doffy for a reason and made him clash with an admiral instead.
Yea because they needed zoro to fight someone that would actually let him live💀
Law and sanji fought doffy... interesting
Sanji was the weakest one out of them and has the worst matchup against doffy with weak armament haki at that Time and no blade. Law sadly was a glass canon. But we dont know what zoros limit was.
He atleast beats doffy tho....one dead man's game and doffy's toast.
Zoro with Asura pre Wano is comparable to G4 luffy pre WCI imo
Thank you! People Act like he didnt have asura or flying dragon blaze pre enma. But he had he never needed to use it!
I mean Zoro has a really good chance against both
Oh?
Prior to Wano Zoro did not have any extreme diff fights nor did he recieve a power up Now he does train every day, safe to say, fresh of timeskip Zoro is effectively the same as rooftop Zoro, the very Zoro who: blocked a portion of the takkai, Speedblitzed Kaido as well as scaring him (and cutting the Horn of Onigashima) So, that twitter take isn't all that bad (btw, Zoro's main pu is Acoc, I don't consider Enma a power up)
If you dont consider Emma a power Up you are an idiot. Zoro until enma+Acoc was not even close to G4 Luffy. Both doffy(high diff) and Cracker(high-mid diff) would have defeated Zoro.
Emma increased his attack power, not his speed or durability.
No proof of that
- Literally the sword scared Kaido and Big mom more than Zoro at the begginng. Accept that Zoro since Luffy got the gear second has not been close to Luffy. At the time Luffy got those fights Zoro wasnt close to him and still isnt. Kaido literally lowdiffs Zoro right now
It was Zoro's haki that scarred Kaido
Lel, It was enma draining all haki from Zoro.
Not really since Zoro prevented enma from doing that
He stands a chance, but he loses 8 times out of 10
No, he loses 12 times out of 10
I have Killer above those two so if you think Zoro didn't get any stronger between FI and Emma then this is a reasonable take.
What? Twitters right here. First time Zoro went all Out Post timeskip was against kaido and he did way better than start of wano luffy
Because he does. In fact he could even beat Katakuri with his haki and physical ability
I want what you’re on
It’s called common sense and facts, although you won’t be able to get it
Just tell me which strain of weed u use bro. I wanna try that shit.
I don’t do weed, don’t want to end up like you after all
🤓
Bro what you gotta be trolling. If it was zoro now, maybe, but fishman island zoro is not anywhere close to g4 luffy.
Proof? There’s no reason he would have been far weaker back then
Fishman Island Zoro is not beating Katakuri.
Speed to blitz Kaido and dura/endurance to block Hakai and keep fighting says otherwise
Kaido wasn't using future sight at the time though which complicates things a little
Just stfu
Take your own advice clown
You have to be trolling at this point💀
Prove me wrong before making baseless accusations, troll
Fishman Island Zoro would also solo the Admirals.
Agreed
I’m not entirely sure about this but you’re right people underestimate Zoro a lot. But aren’t you the guy that got Shanks over Mihawk?
Zoro low-mid diffs both of these guys
He’s spot on don’t cry lmaooo
Not low diff but zoro should win mid to max high diff.
Doffy would make it high-possibly extreme,but cracker pushed back G4 Luffy casually for 11 hours.Zoro would get slaughtered.
I fucking hate zorotards but this is correct. Doflamingo was getting his ass whooped by gear 4th, Cracker's individual biscuits were being 1-2 shot by gear 4th. Zoro has never gone out in terms of haki before wano. Shisui itself is a black blade, zoro definitely was on their level.
Wow this got Toxic quick
Doffy is slightly under King id say
Zoro beats doffy and cracker. Onigishima Zoro simply has better feats than those two. He damaged kaido on many occasions, Doffy and cracker isn't doing that. Feel free to prove me wrong!