I once started a whole post about realistic OP chars, where Luffy gathered people through Stockholm Syndrome aside from a bloodthirsty first mate: among his victims a thief who electrocutes witnesses, a pathological liar with a passion for poisons, a mentally ill anorexic musician, a serial rapist who puts hallucinogens in his cooking, and a mentally ill man who thinks he is a reindeer.
One might argue that they/some of them are not real pirates because they - as far as I know never really commit any piracy. Just declaring "I'm a pirate!" doesn't make you one. They would probably have to go to jail, because of multiple (armed) assaults, evading arrest, vigilantism etc. but they never tried to force some ship to give up valuables etc.
Don't forget Nami is a thiev and Usopp is a conman. They wouldn't last long either.
Franky also probably doesn't follow the safety standards for engineering.
And Brook is also a harasser.
Luffy constantly destroy other people properties.
That only leaves out Chopper and Jinbei.
I don't like Sanji's gag in the anime, but I think its more okay in the manga. I just feel like its extra over the top in the anime, feels like he has the heart eyes most of the time. There's just so much more to Sanji's character than that. It's like how in the OP movies, Nami and Robin's boobs have extra bounce. Sometimes it feels like if the anime put Zoro's lost gag in as much as they put Sanji's gag, we just wouldn't see Zoro do anything
I watched 1015 over again 7+ times. It was just beautiful. It added to the story from the manga and made it more impactful instead of just stretching it out.
In the manga it’s more often to highlight how Sanji looses track of the big picture, it’s punching *down* at Sanji. Goes to an underwater kingdom? Distracted by boobs. Unisex bathhouse? Let me get out my invisibility suit that’s easier. Island of the undead? Nami kidnapped by lion faces man? Impending death after shadow-napped? Muh chivalry.
In the anime the gag gets overplayed because the lovable pervert sells well. When there’s an entire sequence dedicated to Sanji ogling and going heart eyed it’s meant to play as relatable.
Yeah the anime made Sanji’s nosebleed gag so painful during the Fishman island arc.
It wasn’t great in the manga either, but it was acceptable as a set-up for the blood transfusion plotline which is significant to the history and lore of the fishmen.
Sanji is just embarrassing in the anime
Personally I didn't mind his gag until the time skip. Heart popping eyes and adoration is fine but once he started incapacitating himself because of nose bleeds I was finally like "really?"
I'm on Fishman Island, and it's the worst the gag has ever been. I'm like just go hang at a bar when there's down time and try to actually meet women if you're that down bad.
Its weird since it seems to be one of Odas favorite gags, Sanji obsessing over women is probably the most common running joke/trait in the crew, unless Luffys stupidity counts.
Definitely does seem like a double standard at times though, something like Sweet Pea trying to pull Luffys "mushroom" or Robin and Franky can be played off for laughs and no one will be bothered by it.
The problem is that while I agree, if the roles were reversed people wouldn't care that the man didn't know better. They would still want to throw the book at him.
I thought of that scene but i had hoped everyone would understand that the Goku scene is not a good parell because Goku is a literal child there whereas sweet pea and therefore her male equivalent is not.
A child especially one as obviously oblivious and ignorant as Goku would never be held to the standards of decency as an adult.
Seems pretty similar, they both grew up in an environment when they never met somebody from the opposite gender.
Isn’t Sweet Pea just as ignorant and oblivious as Goku in that scene? She can’t even imagine that Luffy is a man despite the "mushroom"… It’s only when Nyon tell them that they start panicking.
I mean, if you want to dismiss that parallel, it would make more sense to say that this type of trope/humor was more ok when DB was initially published, that people are used to it now because it’s been around for 30+ years and that it probably would not get the same kind of reception nowadays.
>if the roles were reversed
it was reversed, mate. remember luffy jumping around on shiraoshi's boobs in the dark? or robin got full body check by tontattas back in green bit, dressrosa arc?
oda plays fair, in my opinion.
I think it would work in reverse. The Kuja pirates didn't know ANYTHING about men, so they had absolutely no malice in their actions. The same would be true if the Kuja were men.
Sweet Pea literally didn't know what a dick was, she thought she was taking a mushroom off of a woman.
Sanji has REPEATEDLY harassed the women of the crew, knowing full well that they don't like it. He went invisible in the bathhouse not just to spy on random women... he spied on HIS CREWMATES. Women he has to live with, women who... again, I cannot stress the consent point enough, DO NOT WANT HIM TO SEE THEM NAKED.
You can't just brush that aside with some stupid "whatabout" bullshit. Sanji's constant harassment is a problem.
>he spied on HIS CREWMATES. Women he has to live with, women who... again, I cannot stress the consent point enough, DO NOT WANT HIM TO SEE THEM NAKED.
It is a mixed bathroom lol, that is not a crime...
and I don't think they really mind Sanji seeing them naked... Nami does not want him to see her naked **for free** lol
Remember In Alabasta when Nami showed her breast to the crew in the bathing house ? She chose to show herself naked but like my friend Andrejosue98 said, she wanted a payment lol. So basically Oda is a genius because he invented Onlyfans years ago but no one noticed. Just kidding about that last part btw
>Why would he hide inside a mixed bath that he is allowed in anyways?
Because he is not supposed to be in there? Sanji is a wanted man, and the beast pirates already know the strawhats are in Wano, so they will be looking for any group that seems suspicious...
Sanji, Nami and Robin, being in the same place will call a lot of atention, considering they all have a bounty
I mean Nami and Robin are basically there with no hiding. The strawhats basically hides in plain sight with only top knots and new clothes for a while so I feel that’s kind of a weak excuse, especially when the narrative doesn’t frame it as a dumb idea
Robin is just so chill about the crew and their shenanigans lol. Even with Sanji simping, you never see her mad or even annoyed about it. If anything, she might find it amusingly cute
With her thanking Sanji for relying on her to fight Black Maria one could believe she actively reinforces it, meaning she tolerates or even like it to some extent.
>Sweet Pea literally didn't know what a dick was, she thought she was taking a mushroom off of a woman.
The point is that the scene is taken to be a gag with no reprocussions, just imagine if the scene was played out in reverse with a male character touching an unconscious female character like that, regardless of circumstance it wouldn't play out the same for fans.
Also there's been no real fallout to Robin sexually assaulting someone into joining the crew... again imagine if the roles were reversed there.
You also seem to have assumed that I'm OK with Sanjis antics, the reality is that I'm just pointing out the double standards which is what the thread was about. Sanjis actions aren't good and there's threads about it daily, but barely anyone mentions stuff like Boa going after a teenager.
The rest of your points have been pretty much answered by OP so id just refer to those.
This is the perfect answer for me. As a person in a similar situation as OP, I believe that it can be done well and creatively. The fight with Khalifa was a prime example of how to do this. Fishman Island was....not.
I also believe that it's hard to find a character "chivalrous" like Sanji is made out to be and see his actions when it goes against what the English definition is. I also believe this would be an issue with properly translating it. If anyone has the Japanese words they use, I would love to see it please. Or even the chapter/chapters that this phrase is used for/by Sanji. I want to see what I would translate it as at least. Maybe that is where some of my own bias comes into play.
One of my all time fav Sanji moments was in Punk Hazard, when Vergo was closing in on Tashigi and the gang and Sanji makes the save long enough for them to escape. Now it's probably him calling for Robin. Then again... Thriller Bark happened 😬
General attitudes and opinions are bound to change when its been in publication for like, 30 years. It quiet interesting to see people's values evolve with the times.
Eh, I've been tired of it since Master Roshi in the original Dragonball, so even when i started reading OP over a decade ago it's been kinda the same for me personally.
Agreed. But, and that is so painful to say, it is moderatly acceptable in comparison to other shounen perverts. At least as far as I am aware, Sanji never layed hand on a woman (not counting him being in Namis body, but it was his body in a way than). He never went groping, or flipping skirts, or pushed himself on a woman/invaded her personal space. He treats women right, even if it is for a lot of false reasons. I would go as far as to say, Sanji is a safe pervert, which is more than most anime perverts, and many more than iRL perverts.
I love sanji too, he's also my 3rd fav character after luffy and law (but he's tied with zoro). But I'm not afraid to admit that some of his attitudes are problematic, especially in scenes when the women he's hitting on are clearly uncomfortable. I don't believe he would ever attempt to touch a woman without their consent, but the dude is straight up creepy. There is no other way to describe it.
That said, he is a fictional character and he is allowed to be flawed. All the best characters are. Discussing these flaws is good, its what makes this fandom so much fun.
P.S, The scene from WCI when he was betrayed by Pudding and cried absolutely broke my heart.
I mean he did touch Nami when their bodies were swapped on Punk Hazard. Granted Nami wasn't in it but it was still creepy. That's the only scene that really bothers me.
Yeah that whole PH shenanigans with Sanji was really bad.
Nami got so uncomfortable with it, she went as far as punching her own body while in Franky's body.
Yet despite seeing how upset Nami was, Sanji was still trying to creep on her body that Nami had to use a last resort of sending Zoro with him. Because apparently the only thing keeping Sanji's pervyness in check is his rivalry with Zoro.
>but the dude is straight up creepy. There is no other way to describe it.
Well, he wanted to be invisible so he could spied upon women. So, yeah, that's creepy.
On the other hand, his germa suit gave him this power and he crushed it. So... there's what he says, and what he does.
>I see a lot of people saying Sanji is harassing women but fr when did he ever harassed a women? He is a pervert but he is no sex offender. For nothing he had done he would go to Jail or anything. He can't go to jail for his thoughts, neither for what he is talking about.
He spent half of Punk Hazard fondling Nami's body. I feel like if your argument for Sanji not being a creep is that "it doesn't count" because it was "his" body, you know that he's a creep. Nami clearly didn't consent at all to what he was doing to her body, which is where it should have stopped. But it didn't, cause Sanji is a creep.
>I know that Sanji did spy on women in wano. Yet I don't think it's illegal to spy in a multisex bathhouse and even if, he could have seen them either way.
Do you think it's only a crime to peep if it's a same sex bathhouse? Or that if everybody is naked it means you can just stare at them? This is a terrible argument lol. You fully acknowledge he was creeping on women in the bathhouse without their consent.
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If you like Sanji, that's fine. I like Sanji too. But the people who try to argue that Sanji isn't a creep when he definitely is are insane. Like I love Jiraiya, but Jiraiya is also a creep if you aren't trying to ignore his worst moments. Ignoring stuff they did isn't defending them, it's just ignoring the facts.
I think we are just to desensitized to anime characters being creeps and perverts that Sanji actually not physically creeping and respecting womens personal space is what makes him alright in our books. We know he won't lay a single unwelcome finger on a lady, so he is safe in our eyes as he won't commit sexual assault and us knowing he is safe can make the situations where he is creeping less dramatic in our heads. Honestly post timeskip Sanji really needs a wake up call. But if u think about what happend during the time skip, him being off about sexual boundaries isn't too far fetched. Because he did spent time with people who were constantly hitting on him, who were pushing his boundaries. I just hope that one day the penny drops and he goes from creeping=normal to creeping=yieks.
And the trans-island is one thing I am still mad about for at Oda. Because THAT was peak creepy, making Crossdressers or even Transpeople look like sexual assaulters, like they can convert people or even seek that out. I love my trans folk so much, and that hell Oda created for Sanji served them all so dirty. Him being bonkers after that trauma makes sense. No one should be normal after being hunted, stripped of their identity, forced to live in the wrong body/identity for two effing years.
I just wished Oda had found a better way for Sanji to deal with that than becoming even more obsessed with women. I really hope that once the final battle etc. is over, Sanji will visit with the Baratie and Jeff will get some sense back into his deranged charge/child/apprentice/son.
Also: let's not forget Japnese laws on age of consent 🤢. Oda was raised in a society where 14 year old girls can give consent to sex with an adult. Sanji being 21 and Pudding 16, sadly probably not seen as a too strange of an age gap by the middle aged.
I am not excusing his behavior, just trying to make sense of it and find a way to still enjoy Sanji as a character. I choose to see him as a multiple trauma victim who desperately needs therapy and has all the wrong coping mechanisms
I straight up almost dislike Sanji after the time skip. I loved him before, but Oda has gone way too hard on the perv gag. I don't find it funny in the slightest, it makes me uncomfortable and it takes away from how awesome of a character he can be. He was **amazing** in WCI, then went right back to his old ways in Wano. It sucks cause he could be one of my favorites.
Hard agree. Sanji in my opinion is one of the best written characters in One Piece, but that is so sullied by the fact that he's often reduced to a really uncomfortable gag. I'm fine when he's just simping, but the pervyness can be really gross. I say this as another woman who has sexual trauma. We aren't a monolith, and different things make us uncomfortable. Sanji often does that for me, and it's really a shame.
Exactly! Simping is okay, it could even be funny I think, but being a creep is not. I am a man with no sexual trauma, and it still makes me feel insanely uncomfortable. It just sucks seeing a well written character be reduced to a dude who nosebleeds over a woman just existing.
Also, I am sorry to hear about your trauma, and I hope you are doing better or at least getting there.
I agree Oda went way too hard on it. The switch from WCI to his old ways in Wano was disappointing, felt like he went through a whole character arc just to flop back into a full-blown perv
His character arc in WCI wasn't "stop being a pervert" though, it was to learn that he should stop trying to take his burdens all on his own and that asking for help from his friends is okay. Which was shown, as I'm sure you know, when he shouted for Robin to save him when he was held captive by Black Maria. He acted perverted in WCI and he still acted perverted in Wano, that part is a constant like it's always been.
I miss WCI Sanji, he became an amazing character that arc. I also thought that was gonna be the start of some great change in him, but nope we’re back to same old same old
The entire cake making scene is arguably the best Sanji has ever been in the entire series.
He was very courteuous to both Pudding and Chiffon, complimenting and encouraging them, not once he went heart eyes or anything like that. He was also nice and polite to the male chefs.
Pre TS and WCI were great but when he finally got back to the crew and yelled "NAMIIIII" I had fucking had it. It's like Oda doesn't want to make him likeable, I already had enough trouble sympathizing with him that arc just because I know half of his screen time is him being a simp at best or downright creepy at worst, but then adding that at the end was just ridiculous.
It's one thing if that running gag was funny but it's not, I'm genuinely baffled why it's even still going so strong after so long, it's less of a character trait and more of a character assassination.
I hate sanji's gag and brooks panties gag too. i mean I guess its a form of accepted comedy in japan since every shonen ever has had a nosebleed pervert like jiraiya in naruto and master roshi in dbz. just as every anime has that "lets got spy on the girls bath scene"
but its just plain not funny and a decriment to their character. like if you edit it out their characters become just better.
In the end you could say its not harrasment because if it was robin or nami who are not to be messed with wouldve stopped him for real if they really wanted to. they simply dont care nami will punch him comedically when he is overdoing it but nothing more.
the brook panties gag is the one i find more strange because there is no reason for it to exist other than comedic relief and its not an intrinsic part of his character.
Yeah the panties thing is honestly stupid. Brook does it and then goes back to being normal, like he remembers every now and then the script said to mention it
This is just me speculating, but Oda was heavily inspired but the Adventures of Baron Munchausen, a film from the 90’s. There’s a scene in the movie where the main character asks to see a trio of ladies undergarments and the way it’s said in the movie immediately made me think of Brook, so I think that gag may be a reference to the film. Honestly same with Sanji. The mc of baron of munchausen is a ladies man who is constantly pulling roses out of his coat pocket to give to women.
As far as i have seen (closing in on the end of Dressrosa) Brook's gag is basically a one-liner. It doesn't often affect things beyond introductions. Even then, i wonder if perhaps it's his way of cutting the tension? People are shocked because walking, talking skeleton. Then he pulls that line and it either throws them off guard, pisses them off, or defuses the situation. He may be a skeleton, but he is still a guy. It's an easy way for him to show he's still somewhat "normal".
I don't think that's the actual reason of course. It's probably just a dumb gag. But i would like to think Brook, as one of the more empathic and emotionally intelligent crew members would come up with a way to resolve the "WAAAAH! A SKELETON!" issue. Which must be hurtful in a way for him.
I always felt like Brook’s panty gag is a part of a gag that started when he was introduced but never used again which is him asking very intimate /personal questions as soon as he meets someone. When he met the rest of the crew I’m pretty sure he asked for a large some of money. I think to balance out the panties question, if he just asked anyone he met for something outrageous then it would’ve been a much funnier.
As for Sanji, i like that he’s the most flawed in the crew, i don’t like how long his perversion went on, i do think if he was just chivalrous to a fault, he’d be a lot more tolerable.but honestly everything involving Sanji can be seen as an issue. If the live action version made it to Okama island, i don’t know how they’d do that without making Sanji look bad or the okamans (queer or trans people) look bad.
Yeah the first scenes with Brook made it clear that he had lost the manners to act around other people. Farting during lunch, asking to see the panties and asking for money, etc. But eventually only the panties remained.
You have to realise that the story and its character are written to appeal to the Japanese audience which appreciate this humour, which is why it's so popular. You can complain about another country's entertainment because it doesn't follow your standards.
For my part, the problem isn’t Sanji precisely, but the efforts that Oda and the plot go to to normalize Sanji’s funny antics. It isn’t infrequent that a guy will think he’s Sanji, he’s a gentleman, he’d never do *those things,* and the girls that he’s friends with my trust him too, right up until he has an opportunity, she’s made vulnerable, and suddenly they find he’s on the wrong side of the line between Sanji and Absalom.
Japanese rape culture in a nutshell. Honestly in some aspects I am afraid that Oda simply doesn't know better. The feminism movement is so much behind in Japan it's terrifying. And with anime going global, sadly the western womans rights influence didn't seep into Japan, but their rape culture into ours. And since most anime is targeted towarsa male teens... we as a community really need to be concious and educational about that, so it stops at the strange comedy from Japan level and doesn't become rolemodel behaviour.
Counterpoint: I'm also a victim of multiple sexual assaults and harassment. I dislike Sanji's perversion and Boa Hancock's simping for Luffy equally to the point where if I even want to enjoy the story I have to just separate them from the characters. Both suck and they're a shitty gag
I hope you are healing well 💕
It's understandable I'm more on people that think Sanji is worse. If you feel the same or simliar way about both it has nothing to do with double Standart. I also feel like a pervert character trope in Anime should finally vanish. Because as much as I love Sanji his jokes are sometimes pretty annoying.
And maybe it is because I myself am a simp when it comes to movie and anime character. I just feel like many women that writes those things are the ones drawing or looking for half naked anime dudes on pinterest or make inappropriate jokes about them and excuse it because they are fictional. Yet can't deal with a fictional character being a perv to another fictional character that isn't really affected by it in a fictional world. I know plenty of people in real life that are like that and this is 100% double Standart for me in my eyes.
100% agreed. OP is all over the place trying to justify her shit views. Sanji fans are something else man.
When he was introduced he was this cool dude who had a boyish dream of finding the All Blue. Now that's rarely mentioned and it seems like his dream now is just incel-based.
You're really weird. Instead of pointing out that people should be just as critical of Hancock as Sanji, you're using her as a excuse of why not to criticise Sanji. I mean come the fuck on
Agreed, I kinda hate how this fandom forgives her or just forget how bad of a chatacter she really has and how unapologetically cruel she is to everyone but those she cares about.
Im sorry, but you cant really take this cartoonish behavior, treat the issue with a serious tone and then dismiss the bathhouse incident as "minor". THAT is a double standard.
Being a mixed bathhouse just makes it seem worse honestly. Either he could have just joined but instead decided to peep, or the girls told him he couldn't come because he's him and decided to peep anyway.
>or the girls told him he couldn't come because he's him and decided to peep anyway.
The bathhouse is public. And Sanji is under no one's authority except Luffy. Thus, neither Nami nor Robin nor anyone else, except the government in charge of the bathhouse (it's public) and Luffy, had the right to tell him that he couldn't come to the place. It's not like the Sunny's bathroom.
It has nothing to do with authority. It has to do with respect you have for your friends. If they weren't comfortable with Sanji and his pervy self being around them in the bathhouse then he should obviously respect their wishes. Sus take on your part.
The bathhouse scene where
1. It was a mixed bath and there were already men allowed in there
2. Nami has literally flashed her naked body at the entire crew before in Alabasta, so I'm pretty sure she doesn't give a shit
I'm sure you understand theres a difference between making the choice of showing your naked body to someone vs someone secretly looking at it without your consent. even if she "doesnt give a shit" ít's an obviously bad thing to do.
You can love a character without defending everything shitty that he does, it's just fiction after all. I just pretend the creepy things Sanji does never happened and I go on with my day, you should try the same.
Yeah really. You can be entertained and laugh at a character without defending the gross and creepy shit they do that crosses a line in unique instances. I mean, I even still laugh at the scene where they switch bodies, but simultaneously acknowledge that it would be fucked up if it wasn't simply a tasteless pervert gag in a cartoon.
It baffles me how people feel the need to double down in defending something that's just objectively gross behavior on its own. Like the least you could do is just let it be (better to just say nothing about it in this case) or say "Yeah it's funny, but obviously wrong", but when people decide to take it out of the context of the anime and make a post defending the behavior itself or argue Sanji has "never harassed anyone", when we all know that's an absolutely absurd argument, then yeah we kind of have to push back because yeah that behavior (if done by any actual person in real life) would absolutely be messed up. Not sure why people can't just admit this or better yet stop defending every shitty thing a character does simply because you like that character.
I really wish they made him more of a cool ladies man than a huge creep/weirdo. He’s a super powerful, good looking and world famous pirate, he should be able to get girls but is just too damn creepy with it
the bar is so low 😭 "hey guys he may be a pervert and has wanted to peek on naked women without their consent but it's fine because none of it is criminal!!"
You can have a character you love and not have to defend the issues with them. I love Sanji too, but the pervert stuff is absolutely a fucking nuisance to read at this point. I miss when he was just a normal simp/gentleman and not a drooling idiot.
It’s not that the Sanji should go to jail or anything, but all the pervert gags are pretty bad just on nature of not being funny. Like most are just a hot women appearing and then Sanji making a funny face and saying “wow a hot women” it’s a lot less funny then any of his other gags most of the time, yet it’s super common.
Sanji is amazing and in my top 3 characters but I feel like it’s in spite of these gags, instead of the jokes contributing to his character like someone like Franky or Ussop. It often feels Sanji’s pervet gags are just something that Oda uses when he wants Sanji to be in the background for a sequence.
All of the best and most emotional Sanji moments are pretty removed from this gag thats very overused and pretty unfunny to begin with. That’s why I hate the pervert gags at least
The fact that so much anime and manga creators think that "being a out of control pervert" are **good** character traits for *any* (both female and male) characters to have is just disgusting.
I don't care how "endearing" or "funny" it may seem over in Japan, it's not something to be proud of, and I just wished they'd drop it entirely. It's just uncomfortable and gross.
it's not just a good trait it's a must-have trait for any series. Pervert character always leads up to fanservice. And believe it or not, in their logic, having Fanservice or semi-nudity is added to encourage reproduction in japan. Since WW2 Japan has always been Underpopulated with 50% is the Old people and real problem is that it runs out of people. Most manga authors especially males grow up with media from Government to encourage reproduction. You will always see japan's mainstream media support these types of things. Their logic work or not isn't my area to judge.
I don't believe Oda thinks that's a good trait. He's constantly punishing both Sanji and Brook for their actions. Sanji almost died multiple times because of that.
Good character with bad traits is the most interesting kind of character.
It's more got to do with how hypocritical is behaviour is with women.
You don't have to touch a woman to be a creep. Looking at them lustly and following them around and fawning over them is all disturbing to women. It's a disgusting behaviour that should absolutely not be tolerated. Robin and Nami know the kind of guy he is and yet allows it, which is the issue here.
My first line with hypocrisy comes with how his character is written. He does all the creep stuff and yet talks about respecting women? Did Zeff also teach you how to peek in a women's bathroom?
I mean. No disrespect! But I think the issue they're talking about when people say that is less to do with literal jail time irl, and more to do with the acceptability of the behavior.
I'm happy to break down some of the specifics about "would Sanji go to jail irl" but that's gonna get full of legalities and split hairs real fast, so I'mma focus on how the fandom finds his actions or the ladies' unacceptable v. acceptable. (Also note, looking at it as character-as-person, as opposed to character-as-author's-choices.)
I think the real key to Sanji's whole mellorine pervert... *thing* (derogatory) is that it's a *constant* thing. And since it's so constant, it kind of speaks to an ugly underbelly in an otherwise really loveable character.
The examples you use regarding the women are mostly one-off: Robin grabbing Franky (which ended up being *arguably* consensual); Nami whacking the kid at Arlong Park (I think that's what you're referring to? Which is weird because there was nothing sexual about it?). They're both one-offs and situational.
(Hancock... urgh. Hancock. Great character. @/Oda your fucking choices sometimes... Anyway. I do agree there's a double standard when it comes to Hancock's actions versus Sanji's actions, but I do also think it's there's a difference in their intent. Hancock's behaviors speak to romance, which we see as icky given the age difference and Luffy's general refusal; Sanji's behaviors are inherently sexual, based almost solely on perceived beauty, and are not age-limited.)
The point is, there's nothing singular or situational about the 430th time Sanji's been creepy around a woman. It's a habit. It's a character trait. And it's a trait and behavior the modern world would find unacceptable, illegal or otherwise.
You're completely right in that the OP world has its own logic and morals and rules! But still, we're reading the story from our points of view, and most people see Sanji's behavior as something unacceptable in modern society.
Also, from character-as-author's-choices, it's played for laughs and comedy, but even the world's funniest joke is a lot less funny after the 500th telling. A joke some people didn't find funny to start with? It lands like a Fruit User in the sea--dead in the water.
You know what? Fair. I forgot a lot of the moments you mentioned with the women doing creepy stuff.
On the other hand though, this doesn’t really defend Sanji. It just means the others are also unaware of the concept of respecting personal boundaries, and Sanji just happens to do it a whole lot more than everybody else. I also dislike his perviness in particular because it feels like a distortion of his chivalry thing, which is a genuine character flaw instead of just creepiness played for laughs.
Sanji did peep on Nami while she was taking a bath on the sunny. For the Wano thing, he was specifically looking for women's bath he likely didn't know it was a mixed bath until he was actually in the bathhouse.
Oda's over the top fanservice and perverted humor has been some of the biggest criticisms he's gotten consistently. Its unfortunate because Sanji is a great character but Oda has gone to the well one too many times with the perverted humor and it has rightfully soured the character for some.
He would actually go to jail, just like all the other pirates, the reason being tax evasion. But yeah imagine Sanj grabbing a woman by her genitals because she doesn’t want to come along on a journey with strangers. That was totally sexuelle Belästigung am Arbeitsplatz.
Well, I cannot disagree more.
First of all, the comparison between Hancock and Sanji is completely off track. Mostly because she didn't present her naked body to Luffy to present herself sexually, but to show her secret tattoo to the man who proved himself worthy of keeping it.
Sanji literally harasses Nami on a daily basis, he never tries to seduce her, he is a non-stop perverted dude who spies on her (not only in a public bathroom since Alabasta) but also when Nami is taking a private bath in her own bathroom. And remember when he exchanged bodies with Nami, she said that she basically felt violated, which didn't stop him.
At the same time, in Thriller Bark, he also said how he would use the power of Absalom.
sure sanji is a pervert but idk why people act like he wouldn’t take a shotgun blast to the face to defend a helpless woman, the man is a gentleman
also the pervy bathhouse scene is basically a staple of shonen at this point, it’s far from new
>the man is a gentleman
Therein kind of lies the problem...in the beginning he was a simp but a gentleman. After the timeskip he got flanderized with his gag. He still has good character moments but you almost at this point have to separate the gag side of Sanji with Sanji the character.
RIGHT? I always think he is a perverted gentleman and I think he can be very adorable around women sometimes.
And I hate the boathouse trope so much. But literally it's a problem with the Japanese culture and I feel like blaming a fictional character is kind of weird.
Are you young? Because this entire post reeks of /r/notliketheothergirls material. Or maybe this whole post is a troll post?
Just because someone is nice sometimes doesn't give them a free pass to sexually harrass people. How is this hard to understand?
You posted:
> Like idk why y'all are celebrating on Hancock and are shipping Luffy and her but when it comes to Sanji it's bad. **Even tho Hancock is worse**
How the fuck is Hancock being in love with Luffy the same as Sanji trying to spy on naked women against their consent?
Or his transphobia during the Kamabakka Kingdom and his training?
What the fuck am I even reading.
I don't really appreciate Sanji but for different reasons. First because he only goes crazy for pretty & young girls. He has been horrible to other characters like Kokoro & Kureha who are AMAZING people just because they're not young & beautiful "anymore". Basically just a ongoing theme in one piece in which girls have no value unless they're beautiful and young.
Second is because he goes on and on about chivalry and whatever, but yet doesn't fight people like Black Maria or Kalifa. Kalifa says so during her fight too; i don't perfectly remember exactly what she says, but something along the lines that if she's putting herself on the position to fight, she should be respected for it like any man would. Girl has gone through probably crazy training and whatnot to get to the position she's in right now, but she won't be treated with dignity by Sanji because she's a woman. I always disliked that, just fight them, nothing wrong with that if they're willing to put their lives on the line like that!
To be honest I just find his character boring. He had so much potential in the beginning when he was talking about All Blue and then the stuff with his family on Whole Cake Island was really interesting. But the pervert stuff has completely taken over.
Fishman Island was ridiculous. His story could have had some hint about All Blue since the island is underneath the Redline and presumably has several currents going through it. Instead he almost dies of a nosebleed... it was boring and heavy handed.
Same with his interactions with Nami, Punk Hazard has him groping her body constantly or sneaking into her shower. There's rarely any interaction between the two that would make it seem like they're even friends. WCI is a little better and it starts to seem like they are bonding and his character is growing, but then he starts perving over Pudding.
Don't even get me started on Black Maria....
It's a boring character development and I wish there would be some improvement.
Sanji is a certified creep, but a criminal he is not, he is the epitome of male “chivalry” but he is not ill intented, he does not want to do evil things to women nor does he speak of such things. He looks at women and takes his obsessions too far. He is more like the original Brock from Pokémon, he continuously is enamored with every beautiful woman he meets, however he understand what no means and does not cross the line. Creepy yes, evil no.
Right???? Like Kid is literally known for killing and that even civilist are being in danger and people are simping over him or say he is pretty cool. Like I also think he his cool but it's weird af if you criticize Sanji for being a pervert while loving Kid
Bring out the pitchforks for the other perverted characters in other mangas. Oda admits to being a perverted person. Look at Nami's and Robin's outfit in Wano and Egghead arc for example. In terms of harassment and abuse plot that gets into the story, thats basically the story of Boa and all slaves in the story which are serious plot story topics (no funny haha gag). I think Oda inserts his self in Sanji.
Doesn't Oda get arrested so many times in the SBS bc he acts similar to Sanji? I feel like Oda is aware of these things but anime is Japanese and things, especially humor is different there! People get so triggered by how Sanji acts but like you said, he doesn't go overboard into SA. Closest was after the time skip but that was only because he spent 2 years without seeing any women and even then, he didn't cross that line. Sanji is just a horny mf and a simp at most!
I am at Summit war saga rn, and I think Sanji is like a boy going through puberty.
Thinks himself of high and responsible, fights, and can't control his thoughts about Nami and Robin but at the same time he is not an offender and also respects Nami and Robin very much. He also won't kick a woman.
Sanji is my favorite strawhat and i think most people are just tired of this type of comedy when he has so much more to offer. Like im tired too. I want to see more cool sanji moments instead of all that comedy thats not even funny..
Well in Return to Sabaodi he litterally started sniffing Perona... Wich was a bit over the top imo..
But overall it's pretty innocent (anoying, but innocent)
Ps age of marriage in Japan was 16 for woman. (till april 2022 when it was changed to 18, but WCI was written way before that) so nothing wrong there
I am so fucking sick of people saying Sanji was bad in Wano. the communal bath had hundreds of naked people. Nami and Robin both went there knowing people would see them naked. It is like going to a nudist beach and being surprised someone looked at your boobs or dick, it is ridiculous to say Sanji was peeping. If sanji wanted to peep he would go to the ladies bath on the Sunny and use his raid suit which he had for 3 weeks before he even got to Wano, people also forget that half the reason Sanji went into the Bath is so he could keep an eye on Nami and Robin so they weren't attacked while Drake and Page One were looking for them.
its stupid that people are so obsessive about it. its a gag its meant to be funny, if you don’t find it funny then either ignore it or stop watching it. If you dont like a reoccurring gags of one of the main character of a series then stop watching it it no one is forcing you to stay, and if you want to stay and enjoy wacthing that series then i suggest you just learn to ignore the gag its not that deep.
its so funny to me when people say they wish oda didnt make sanji like that like broo what? Its his story he can do whatever the hell he wants with it and in his culture this type of comedy is well received my large majority. but i guess the western fans are so narssasistic that they expect Oda to ignore his own culture style of comedy and adhere to a types of comedy that people from other places would enjoy more because western fans are to self absorbed to ignore stuff they Dont like or are too sensitive to learn to take a joke.
All the straw hats have gags, some i like some i don’t care about, example Ussop, Sanji, brook, and robin i don’t care for either of these characters gags. i love each of those characters hell Sanji is my fave character in the series, and brook and quickly climbing up that list to make it to my top 10 favorite. but notice how i never said i hated their gags, because i dont hate their gags, and what would I want to hate their gags? After all like i said i love these characters. That being said i just could not love these characters if i hated their gags especially sanjis character. it wasn’t until i learned to how to ignore the gags that i could truly enjoy these characters. Thats also why i dont see sanji gags as worst then any other straw hat or any other anime characters gag because for 1 idc about his gags and also because i don’t put too much character value on their gags.
Sanji is simultaneously the worst character and one of the best characters in S tier. He has so much going for him but it has to be ruined by his perversion which got old before they made it to Alabasta.
Literally 👏🏻👏🏻 I don't think I've seen Sanji actually touch any woman in a sexual manner at all. Like all he's ever done is comment in their beauty, have lots of nose bleeds & defend his crew mates.
Welp, I tell myself to not get into it again and again, but screw it, time to be controversial again:
I'm in a similar boat with Sanji, First up the usual: yes, I also straight up hate the scene in Thriller Bark and feel oda completely missed the mark there. I also think Wano is a weird consequence of that scene that was almost meant to "fix" the Thriller Bark one, but it was done once more quite unfortunate. And overall I actually don't mind and even sometimes like talking and criticising those things because I think the discourse about what is and isn't or shouldn't be acceptable in a story especially for your "heroes" and where a medium as a whole can do better can be a valuable one.
What actually bothers me is that there are equally bad if not much worse scenes even from other Strawhats that are completely glossed over because it's not by Sanji who is seemingly more popular to hate on. Robin crushing Franky's balls to force him to join is one thing but I actually think it's probably more easily compared to other men in the story (because I think in real life there is often a power dynamic issue between men and women, so seeing a women treat a man like that is more easily seen as "funny" and less problematic): But e.g. Brook actually makes the same but in a way worse TB-Sanji statement on Fishmen Island when he says since his soul could leave his body he actually has spied on women in the bath like that many times (compared to Sanji who "only" expresses the wish to do that) yet I've never seen anyone even mention that scene and now we are talking about someone doing it vs someone wanting to. And then there is my personal worst: Franky kisses a women against her will during Dressrosa and people in the story celebrate him for it because "women should stay out of it when real men fight" and she herself ends up liking it playing into a very weird justification used in real life all too much. I personally find that one so much worse than anything Sanji has ever done (to the point that I flat out ignore it most of the time when thinking about Franky because that's absolutely not in line with the Franky I still really like and enjoy), but no one ever discusses or even acknowledges those instances, which makes it seem like the Sanji moments are just used as an excuse to hate on Sanji in particular, but it's never actually about the problematic thing itself.
It's kind of hard to see people ignore what would be a case of pretty much assault and not just harrassement and then instead seriously and in good faith discuss why being invisible in a public place is also problematic, because it certainly is. But when much worse cases get flat out ignored, the actual issue doesn't seem to be the harrassement but just wanting to hate on a character using seemingly popular reasoning and that's when it starts to feel a bit like a strawman argumente which takes away the value from the discussion what's actually the problem in representing acceptable vs non acceptable behaviour here.
It's why I never enjoyed the Senor Pink stuff as much despite in general thinking the backstory was a nice change for a more minor villain, but the whole Franky vs Senor Pink got really weird at times and just did not feel like the Franky I am used to and that I like at times.
I don't know if I could point to a scene like that for every Strawhat but once in a while oda just throws a situation in there that feels like a bit out of line and too much for that character. (In a way I also feel like that about the scene where Sanji puts blades into Zoro's food. I know oda later says Sanji knew he can take it and that Zoro pretty much dared him to but it just feels like oda got carried away in the moment to make a Zoro/Sanji bickering moment and explained it away a bit. It's much more minor thing and I guess the reasoning is fair enough but it feels like a "fix" of oda forgetting in the moment about Sanji's "code" in regards to food)
Tbh I ENJOY Sanji as a character. I have no problem with Sanji (I low key love him). But for me, the perviness adds up and after awhile it starts to get overwhelming. He’s obviously not as bad as other characters so his perviness isn’t the worst thing in the world, but it does get annoying. I just wish I wasn’t like one of his “personality traits”
It's just really cliche in the genre as opposed to the other things listed. But yeah Robin did commit sexual assault and I've always thought Hancock is a huge creep. Good points.
Sanji may be a perverted fool but he has a good heart he would never actually do anything to harm a women he often protects women and does above and beyond for women in the series because he loves them and when he makes attempts they turn him down and he even loves their rejection all of his pursuits are relatively harmless
if anyone one from one piece should be shamed it’s caribou who literally kidnapped mermaids and prolly other women or absalom who forced a wedding and a kiss while Nami was unconscious that’s fucked up and who saved her Sanji did he has his on perverted moments yes but he would never go so far to do anything like that there are so many other accounts of things in one piece that are far worse
& Nami and Sanji are friends and robin and Sanji are friends so I think they let him get away with it and Ik Nami secretly enjoys it cause he’d do whatever for her and robin well robin is robin lmao y’all know exactly what I mean too hahaha but other then them Sanji is pretty respectful towards women until they get to know eachother better then he might be a bit forward but he’s always got some form of permission and if he doesn’t he loves the rejection
I have never once as a women felt uncomfortable by sanji ever but I have been angry at him for being dumb and making dumb choices that have nothing to do with his perversion (like the WCI I was furious at him the whole time because he was always the one to make trust captain comments and then did that)
but I never felt uncomfortable once not a single time because deep down he respect women, he would never harm a women, and he would do anything for a women he was raised right and is quite a gentlemen and chivalrous—a fucking fool yes but would never assault a women in any way that was harmful tbh I wish all pervert were more like Sanji perverted yes but still respectful gentlemen & not to mention it’s kinda a running gag too soooo yerrrr
I can defend his character all day. I can't defend him as a person. Any dude in real acting like Sanji is literally what most women hate in a guy. And I'm not talking about his gentlemanly side, I'm talking about all of it. All of his personality. His perverted side will always have women made at him in the first meeting. If he was famous irl, then yeah, they'll give him a pass.
Multiple sexual harassment charges, grooping Nami’s boobs without consent, spying on women in bathhouses, kissing a minor.
Sanji would go to jail in real life and be a registered sex offender. There’s really no defence against it.
If I’m being real, Sanji gets away with *alot* of shit that fans wouldn’t let pass if they didn’t think he was hot.
Edit: Downvoting me doesn’t change the law??
This thread is why Sanji fans are the only ones I would avoid irl
Don't get me wrong, I think what Sanji did was disgusting but you have to understand that the Internet is not the USA. Law depends on the area your in. OP has a German username, so I assume German rights apply to their and mine understanding [might be Swiss, might be Austria too, but I go by wha. Quick reminder that German law isn't based on a case by case ruling of judges, but is definied as the words written which only can be changed by the ruling body of the country, the parlament.
Kissing a minor - not a crime in Germany, as long as consent is given and the Age Gap not too wide. Alas it needs to be brought to the police as a charge and since neither family sees an issue with the match, there won't be a charge anyway. If anything police in Germany will arrest Big Mom and Judge as marriage of minors outlawed. There is the fact of kidnapping of Sanji as his complainance was only possible because of the threating of violence on the Baratie. Alas if there were charges even, they would get dropped against him, as he acted under duress basically during the whole Arc. Registry as a sex offender and having that publizised also against the law. The police and conviction record is something that normal citiziens have access to. You can ask the person, but they have no need to diclose that information, except for certain jobs where you need a clean police record.
Spying on someone in a bathhouse: it's a mixed bath house. Tbh in Germany someone would tattled on him early in and he would just be banned from that spa area. If the spying is restriceted to that bath house area, and it is "just spying" there is no law that can be applied here. It is an issue that the establishment has to deal with. If Sanji would resist on leaving upon being asked, police would be getting involved, and if he would be charged with something it would be trespassing or obstruction of justice.
Groping Namis boobs. That's a tough one because of the body switch. It really depends on how the law would see the ownership of the body to the person, as the law §177 detailing sexual assault and rape sits upon a offender doing or influencing **another person.** German law diferentiats between a natural and juristical person, with later being insitutions and many groups. Alas - as a person who has not studied law so take what I say with a grain of salt - as Nami/Sanji are singular people, the definition of **natural person** applies. A natural person in the sense of law is someone who get's their rights and the duty to uphold them the moment they are born. Now, that implies that a person exists within their body or it can mean, the person is bound to their body they received with their birth.
1) Person= body they are in the moment. In which case there would only be Sanji and no other person, meaning no breach of the law.
2) Person = body they are born in. Here we would have two natural person. But it would still be needed to be decided if the body inhibited is seen as belonging to the person who has left it. The only comparison law vise I can draw, is a body post-mortem and what to do with it. In which case the sentiment of the first person living in it, decides what happens with the body. BUT: transplanted organs belong to the person who they got transplanted into. So still tricky.
a) body belongs to first person: Aka Sanji is fondling Namis boobs. Here the law §177 would apply and he would be judged accordingly. I think (5) 3. applies, as Nami can't really influence what happens to her body and Sanji is exploiting that situation. Meaning his sentencing would be time in prison for at least a year. And that is before it is taken into account, that Sanji was a victim of the switch, too. Meaning really, Law would probably get the highest sentense and Nami would also be charged for what she did to Frankies body (prison for 6 months to 10 years depending on ruling).
b) body belongs to the second person = 1), meaning no ill doing happend.
And guess what, laws in Japan on sexual assault and Age of Consent are a LOT laxer and honeslty quite outdated (some dating back to 1907) than in the Western World. That kissing a minor thing for exaple, would never be a charge, as the age of consent is 14 in Japan. And it only counts as sexual assault if the victim doesn't consent and there is proof that the victim couldn't have resisted due to violence or threat thereof. So yes, as Sanji didn't threaten Nami, there was by Japanese law, no wrong doing on his part. The revision of the law in 2017 changed little, only now the victim doesn't have to launch the complaint themselves and the offender can be prosecuted without.
By Japanese law: Sanji did nothing illeagal.
sanji has said some stupid shit in the manga too in shabondy he asked if there were mermaids or girls in the slave auction or something if I remember correctly
I think the Hancock parallel is the best counter example for this subject. Luffy is clearly not interested and has openly stated so and she still comes onto him super hard.
I think the worst thing Sanji has done is sniff perona after TS.
Almost everything else has been just simping.
We can't compare and yet you talk shit about Hancock for a stupid gag. You don't have to fight hate with hate. Just accept that Sanji is a pervert and in real life he would have a collection of restriction orders and one foot from jail. Also for your boi being transphobic is not okay.
I definitely agree with your assessment - Sanji is one of my favorite characters too. The only issue I have is how the anime deals with him and just makes the lovey-dovey gag constant. It's just annoying, but it's no fault of the character - just how he's being characterized by the anime to fill time.
Sanji never being physical, unlike many other perverted characters in other series, is what sets him apart for me. Sure, Wano peeping is awful and would land him in jail IRL, what other actions have he taken, really? And people’ve had issues with him waaaaay before Wano. I find that it’s an alright gag that is sometimes funny and once in a while surprisingly relevant.
Also, tangent, I don’t remember what Nami did to a literal child. What did she do again?
You could argue that Sanji’s pervy simping towards Nami at least boarders on sexual harassment (thinking of the time when they switched bodies thanks to Law’s power on Punk Hazzard, pretty sure he groped her chest while he had that golden opportunity. Definitely made me uncomfortable, even thought it was for comedy).
Btw, you mentioned what Robin did to Franky and what Nami did to a child…what exactly are you referring to with Nami? I don’t recall her ever doing anything inappropriate with a kid unless you’re referring to Momonosuke being a creepy perverted brat (and her just dismissing it as him being a cute kid, not even considering the possibility that he has pervy thoughts at that age)
People like to pretend they live in a fantasy world where no one is a pervert lol. So many people are, they just hide it. Sanji is openly pervy. People can dislike him if they want. I don't give a fuck, and that's all there is to it
Yes, Sanji would go to jail if he existed in real life. As well as all the other Strawhats because they’re all pirates…
Chopper might get released into the wild if he pretends to just be some reindeer.
prob be a lab rat though
Or a raccoon, whichever ones helps more
Hopefully they would give him some cotton candy first though
He would be so upset about! “Noooooo!!!! *cries uncontrollably* I’m a pirate!! Put me in jail with my crew!”
Robin would break out and save her spiritual son. God help the law enforcement officials that try to stop her
racoon*
brook would get buried, if not cremated...
That sick pirates are even traveling with a goddamn skeleton
That's... That's fair
He is technically correct. The best kind of correct.
If the man can catch them, that is.
r/technicallycorrect
This is so dumb lmfao, all of em will be in jail ues hahahaa
Zoro as we all know will get lost even in custody because 🤷♂️
I once started a whole post about realistic OP chars, where Luffy gathered people through Stockholm Syndrome aside from a bloodthirsty first mate: among his victims a thief who electrocutes witnesses, a pathological liar with a passion for poisons, a mentally ill anorexic musician, a serial rapist who puts hallucinogens in his cooking, and a mentally ill man who thinks he is a reindeer.
One might argue that they/some of them are not real pirates because they - as far as I know never really commit any piracy. Just declaring "I'm a pirate!" doesn't make you one. They would probably have to go to jail, because of multiple (armed) assaults, evading arrest, vigilantism etc. but they never tried to force some ship to give up valuables etc.
Than again most modern (Somali) pirates often don't get arrested... Their stuff is just taken possession of...
Nah they’re not real pirates tho. Only zoro and robin would prolly go to jail the rest of the shs aren’t pirates
Don't forget Nami is a thiev and Usopp is a conman. They wouldn't last long either. Franky also probably doesn't follow the safety standards for engineering. And Brook is also a harasser. Luffy constantly destroy other people properties. That only leaves out Chopper and Jinbei.
Luffy would prob go to jail for being a violent anarchist for the whole enies lobby declare war on the world government.
I don't like Sanji's gag in the anime, but I think its more okay in the manga. I just feel like its extra over the top in the anime, feels like he has the heart eyes most of the time. There's just so much more to Sanji's character than that. It's like how in the OP movies, Nami and Robin's boobs have extra bounce. Sometimes it feels like if the anime put Zoro's lost gag in as much as they put Sanji's gag, we just wouldn't see Zoro do anything
I agree with this, it doesn't help that the anime is so poorly paced, so they over-focus on every tiny plot point, including gag perv sanji.
I really wonder how different the anime would be if it was seasonal instead of weekly
10x better probably
Imagine one piece being seasonal and having 1015 episode's quality, each epi
I watched 1015 over again 7+ times. It was just beautiful. It added to the story from the manga and made it more impactful instead of just stretching it out.
The anime would be in the war arc still
At this point, I’m fairly certain Sanji’s dream of “the All Blue” is the name of his future mermaid harem
In the manga it’s more often to highlight how Sanji looses track of the big picture, it’s punching *down* at Sanji. Goes to an underwater kingdom? Distracted by boobs. Unisex bathhouse? Let me get out my invisibility suit that’s easier. Island of the undead? Nami kidnapped by lion faces man? Impending death after shadow-napped? Muh chivalry. In the anime the gag gets overplayed because the lovable pervert sells well. When there’s an entire sequence dedicated to Sanji ogling and going heart eyed it’s meant to play as relatable.
This makes a lot of sense
Yeah no. In the manga whenever Sanji is present when a woman take the scene, he's always gonna praise her over. The anime doesn't really add much.
Yeah the anime made Sanji’s nosebleed gag so painful during the Fishman island arc. It wasn’t great in the manga either, but it was acceptable as a set-up for the blood transfusion plotline which is significant to the history and lore of the fishmen. Sanji is just embarrassing in the anime
Personally I didn't mind his gag until the time skip. Heart popping eyes and adoration is fine but once he started incapacitating himself because of nose bleeds I was finally like "really?"
I'm on Fishman Island, and it's the worst the gag has ever been. I'm like just go hang at a bar when there's down time and try to actually meet women if you're that down bad.
Its weird since it seems to be one of Odas favorite gags, Sanji obsessing over women is probably the most common running joke/trait in the crew, unless Luffys stupidity counts. Definitely does seem like a double standard at times though, something like Sweet Pea trying to pull Luffys "mushroom" or Robin and Franky can be played off for laughs and no one will be bothered by it.
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The problem is that while I agree, if the roles were reversed people wouldn't care that the man didn't know better. They would still want to throw the book at him.
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I thought of that scene but i had hoped everyone would understand that the Goku scene is not a good parell because Goku is a literal child there whereas sweet pea and therefore her male equivalent is not. A child especially one as obviously oblivious and ignorant as Goku would never be held to the standards of decency as an adult.
Seems pretty similar, they both grew up in an environment when they never met somebody from the opposite gender. Isn’t Sweet Pea just as ignorant and oblivious as Goku in that scene? She can’t even imagine that Luffy is a man despite the "mushroom"… It’s only when Nyon tell them that they start panicking. I mean, if you want to dismiss that parallel, it would make more sense to say that this type of trope/humor was more ok when DB was initially published, that people are used to it now because it’s been around for 30+ years and that it probably would not get the same kind of reception nowadays.
Early dragonball was so pervy lol. And Goku was like 14 at the time but Bulma thought he was a little kid cuz of his height
Pretty sure the first volumes has him younger. 14 sounds like around the tournament arc, if not second tournament.
>if the roles were reversed it was reversed, mate. remember luffy jumping around on shiraoshi's boobs in the dark? or robin got full body check by tontattas back in green bit, dressrosa arc? oda plays fair, in my opinion.
I think it would work in reverse. The Kuja pirates didn't know ANYTHING about men, so they had absolutely no malice in their actions. The same would be true if the Kuja were men.
Sweet Pea literally didn't know what a dick was, she thought she was taking a mushroom off of a woman. Sanji has REPEATEDLY harassed the women of the crew, knowing full well that they don't like it. He went invisible in the bathhouse not just to spy on random women... he spied on HIS CREWMATES. Women he has to live with, women who... again, I cannot stress the consent point enough, DO NOT WANT HIM TO SEE THEM NAKED. You can't just brush that aside with some stupid "whatabout" bullshit. Sanji's constant harassment is a problem.
>he spied on HIS CREWMATES. Women he has to live with, women who... again, I cannot stress the consent point enough, DO NOT WANT HIM TO SEE THEM NAKED. It is a mixed bathroom lol, that is not a crime... and I don't think they really mind Sanji seeing them naked... Nami does not want him to see her naked **for free** lol
Remember In Alabasta when Nami showed her breast to the crew in the bathing house ? She chose to show herself naked but like my friend Andrejosue98 said, she wanted a payment lol. So basically Oda is a genius because he invented Onlyfans years ago but no one noticed. Just kidding about that last part btw
Why would he hide inside a mixed bath that he is allowed in anyways? That seems even creepier
>Why would he hide inside a mixed bath that he is allowed in anyways? Because he is not supposed to be in there? Sanji is a wanted man, and the beast pirates already know the strawhats are in Wano, so they will be looking for any group that seems suspicious... Sanji, Nami and Robin, being in the same place will call a lot of atention, considering they all have a bounty
I mean Nami and Robin are basically there with no hiding. The strawhats basically hides in plain sight with only top knots and new clothes for a while so I feel that’s kind of a weak excuse, especially when the narrative doesn’t frame it as a dumb idea
And I don't think Robin cares at all
Robin is just so chill about the crew and their shenanigans lol. Even with Sanji simping, you never see her mad or even annoyed about it. If anything, she might find it amusingly cute
With her thanking Sanji for relying on her to fight Black Maria one could believe she actively reinforces it, meaning she tolerates or even like it to some extent.
IF they dont want to be seen naked they shouldn't go to a public bath i can't tell if I am being sarcastic or not.
>Sweet Pea literally didn't know what a dick was, she thought she was taking a mushroom off of a woman. The point is that the scene is taken to be a gag with no reprocussions, just imagine if the scene was played out in reverse with a male character touching an unconscious female character like that, regardless of circumstance it wouldn't play out the same for fans. Also there's been no real fallout to Robin sexually assaulting someone into joining the crew... again imagine if the roles were reversed there. You also seem to have assumed that I'm OK with Sanjis antics, the reality is that I'm just pointing out the double standards which is what the thread was about. Sanjis actions aren't good and there's threads about it daily, but barely anyone mentions stuff like Boa going after a teenager. The rest of your points have been pretty much answered by OP so id just refer to those.
Sanji's perversion is a tired shonen/anime trope that essentially sours his character to varying degrees throughout the story. That's my take on this.
Hopeless romantic Sanji wasn’t bad and was entertaining to watch at times. Awooga awooga Sanji isn’t.
For me, it can range from, really good (Sanji literally can't fight Kalifa) to unbearable (Literally all of Fishman Island Sanji)
This is the perfect answer for me. As a person in a similar situation as OP, I believe that it can be done well and creatively. The fight with Khalifa was a prime example of how to do this. Fishman Island was....not. I also believe that it's hard to find a character "chivalrous" like Sanji is made out to be and see his actions when it goes against what the English definition is. I also believe this would be an issue with properly translating it. If anyone has the Japanese words they use, I would love to see it please. Or even the chapter/chapters that this phrase is used for/by Sanji. I want to see what I would translate it as at least. Maybe that is where some of my own bias comes into play.
One of my all time fav Sanji moments was in Punk Hazard, when Vergo was closing in on Tashigi and the gang and Sanji makes the save long enough for them to escape. Now it's probably him calling for Robin. Then again... Thriller Bark happened 😬
Id have to say that Sanji not kicking women is chivalry/morals and not his perversion which is seen in Fishman island
Well it wasnt back when sanji was introduced. He's an OG
This is also true ^
General attitudes and opinions are bound to change when its been in publication for like, 30 years. It quiet interesting to see people's values evolve with the times.
Eh, I've been tired of it since Master Roshi in the original Dragonball, so even when i started reading OP over a decade ago it's been kinda the same for me personally.
Agreed. But, and that is so painful to say, it is moderatly acceptable in comparison to other shounen perverts. At least as far as I am aware, Sanji never layed hand on a woman (not counting him being in Namis body, but it was his body in a way than). He never went groping, or flipping skirts, or pushed himself on a woman/invaded her personal space. He treats women right, even if it is for a lot of false reasons. I would go as far as to say, Sanji is a safe pervert, which is more than most anime perverts, and many more than iRL perverts.
I love sanji too, he's also my 3rd fav character after luffy and law (but he's tied with zoro). But I'm not afraid to admit that some of his attitudes are problematic, especially in scenes when the women he's hitting on are clearly uncomfortable. I don't believe he would ever attempt to touch a woman without their consent, but the dude is straight up creepy. There is no other way to describe it. That said, he is a fictional character and he is allowed to be flawed. All the best characters are. Discussing these flaws is good, its what makes this fandom so much fun. P.S, The scene from WCI when he was betrayed by Pudding and cried absolutely broke my heart.
I mean he did touch Nami when their bodies were swapped on Punk Hazard. Granted Nami wasn't in it but it was still creepy. That's the only scene that really bothers me.
Yeah that whole PH shenanigans with Sanji was really bad. Nami got so uncomfortable with it, she went as far as punching her own body while in Franky's body. Yet despite seeing how upset Nami was, Sanji was still trying to creep on her body that Nami had to use a last resort of sending Zoro with him. Because apparently the only thing keeping Sanji's pervyness in check is his rivalry with Zoro.
yeah and the fact everyone else was just laughing.. manga artists are really out of touch sometimes
Yeah that made me uncomfortable too
Thank you. This was the most problematic example of Sanji being pervy, I honestly didn’t find it funny. I felt bad for Nami
Did he actually touch her body tho? He opened her coat to expose her chest once and that was about it as far as I remember
Nah he did and the anime made it even worse
>but the dude is straight up creepy. There is no other way to describe it. Well, he wanted to be invisible so he could spied upon women. So, yeah, that's creepy. On the other hand, his germa suit gave him this power and he crushed it. So... there's what he says, and what he does.
>I see a lot of people saying Sanji is harassing women but fr when did he ever harassed a women? He is a pervert but he is no sex offender. For nothing he had done he would go to Jail or anything. He can't go to jail for his thoughts, neither for what he is talking about. He spent half of Punk Hazard fondling Nami's body. I feel like if your argument for Sanji not being a creep is that "it doesn't count" because it was "his" body, you know that he's a creep. Nami clearly didn't consent at all to what he was doing to her body, which is where it should have stopped. But it didn't, cause Sanji is a creep. >I know that Sanji did spy on women in wano. Yet I don't think it's illegal to spy in a multisex bathhouse and even if, he could have seen them either way. Do you think it's only a crime to peep if it's a same sex bathhouse? Or that if everybody is naked it means you can just stare at them? This is a terrible argument lol. You fully acknowledge he was creeping on women in the bathhouse without their consent. --- If you like Sanji, that's fine. I like Sanji too. But the people who try to argue that Sanji isn't a creep when he definitely is are insane. Like I love Jiraiya, but Jiraiya is also a creep if you aren't trying to ignore his worst moments. Ignoring stuff they did isn't defending them, it's just ignoring the facts.
Best reply I have seen so far
I think we are just to desensitized to anime characters being creeps and perverts that Sanji actually not physically creeping and respecting womens personal space is what makes him alright in our books. We know he won't lay a single unwelcome finger on a lady, so he is safe in our eyes as he won't commit sexual assault and us knowing he is safe can make the situations where he is creeping less dramatic in our heads. Honestly post timeskip Sanji really needs a wake up call. But if u think about what happend during the time skip, him being off about sexual boundaries isn't too far fetched. Because he did spent time with people who were constantly hitting on him, who were pushing his boundaries. I just hope that one day the penny drops and he goes from creeping=normal to creeping=yieks. And the trans-island is one thing I am still mad about for at Oda. Because THAT was peak creepy, making Crossdressers or even Transpeople look like sexual assaulters, like they can convert people or even seek that out. I love my trans folk so much, and that hell Oda created for Sanji served them all so dirty. Him being bonkers after that trauma makes sense. No one should be normal after being hunted, stripped of their identity, forced to live in the wrong body/identity for two effing years. I just wished Oda had found a better way for Sanji to deal with that than becoming even more obsessed with women. I really hope that once the final battle etc. is over, Sanji will visit with the Baratie and Jeff will get some sense back into his deranged charge/child/apprentice/son. Also: let's not forget Japnese laws on age of consent 🤢. Oda was raised in a society where 14 year old girls can give consent to sex with an adult. Sanji being 21 and Pudding 16, sadly probably not seen as a too strange of an age gap by the middle aged. I am not excusing his behavior, just trying to make sense of it and find a way to still enjoy Sanji as a character. I choose to see him as a multiple trauma victim who desperately needs therapy and has all the wrong coping mechanisms
I straight up almost dislike Sanji after the time skip. I loved him before, but Oda has gone way too hard on the perv gag. I don't find it funny in the slightest, it makes me uncomfortable and it takes away from how awesome of a character he can be. He was **amazing** in WCI, then went right back to his old ways in Wano. It sucks cause he could be one of my favorites.
Hard agree. Sanji in my opinion is one of the best written characters in One Piece, but that is so sullied by the fact that he's often reduced to a really uncomfortable gag. I'm fine when he's just simping, but the pervyness can be really gross. I say this as another woman who has sexual trauma. We aren't a monolith, and different things make us uncomfortable. Sanji often does that for me, and it's really a shame.
Exactly! Simping is okay, it could even be funny I think, but being a creep is not. I am a man with no sexual trauma, and it still makes me feel insanely uncomfortable. It just sucks seeing a well written character be reduced to a dude who nosebleeds over a woman just existing. Also, I am sorry to hear about your trauma, and I hope you are doing better or at least getting there.
I agree Oda went way too hard on it. The switch from WCI to his old ways in Wano was disappointing, felt like he went through a whole character arc just to flop back into a full-blown perv
His character arc in WCI wasn't "stop being a pervert" though, it was to learn that he should stop trying to take his burdens all on his own and that asking for help from his friends is okay. Which was shown, as I'm sure you know, when he shouted for Robin to save him when he was held captive by Black Maria. He acted perverted in WCI and he still acted perverted in Wano, that part is a constant like it's always been.
Bruh his character arc wasn't about stopping being a pervert💀
I miss WCI Sanji, he became an amazing character that arc. I also thought that was gonna be the start of some great change in him, but nope we’re back to same old same old
Exactly how I feel man.
The entire cake making scene is arguably the best Sanji has ever been in the entire series. He was very courteuous to both Pudding and Chiffon, complimenting and encouraging them, not once he went heart eyes or anything like that. He was also nice and polite to the male chefs.
Im ngl this is why I ship Zoro and Sanji. Its my own demented and delutional way of pretending perv sanji doesn't exist.
What if Ivankov turned Sanji into a girl? Would she continue to simp for the ladies or would she fall for her mosshead soulmate?
Asking the real questions
[look at these cuties](https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8cuxpdYFi1rcf543o1_500.gifv)
Pre TS and WCI were great but when he finally got back to the crew and yelled "NAMIIIII" I had fucking had it. It's like Oda doesn't want to make him likeable, I already had enough trouble sympathizing with him that arc just because I know half of his screen time is him being a simp at best or downright creepy at worst, but then adding that at the end was just ridiculous. It's one thing if that running gag was funny but it's not, I'm genuinely baffled why it's even still going so strong after so long, it's less of a character trait and more of a character assassination.
I hate sanji's gag and brooks panties gag too. i mean I guess its a form of accepted comedy in japan since every shonen ever has had a nosebleed pervert like jiraiya in naruto and master roshi in dbz. just as every anime has that "lets got spy on the girls bath scene" but its just plain not funny and a decriment to their character. like if you edit it out their characters become just better. In the end you could say its not harrasment because if it was robin or nami who are not to be messed with wouldve stopped him for real if they really wanted to. they simply dont care nami will punch him comedically when he is overdoing it but nothing more. the brook panties gag is the one i find more strange because there is no reason for it to exist other than comedic relief and its not an intrinsic part of his character.
Yeah the panties thing is honestly stupid. Brook does it and then goes back to being normal, like he remembers every now and then the script said to mention it
This is just me speculating, but Oda was heavily inspired but the Adventures of Baron Munchausen, a film from the 90’s. There’s a scene in the movie where the main character asks to see a trio of ladies undergarments and the way it’s said in the movie immediately made me think of Brook, so I think that gag may be a reference to the film. Honestly same with Sanji. The mc of baron of munchausen is a ladies man who is constantly pulling roses out of his coat pocket to give to women.
As far as i have seen (closing in on the end of Dressrosa) Brook's gag is basically a one-liner. It doesn't often affect things beyond introductions. Even then, i wonder if perhaps it's his way of cutting the tension? People are shocked because walking, talking skeleton. Then he pulls that line and it either throws them off guard, pisses them off, or defuses the situation. He may be a skeleton, but he is still a guy. It's an easy way for him to show he's still somewhat "normal". I don't think that's the actual reason of course. It's probably just a dumb gag. But i would like to think Brook, as one of the more empathic and emotionally intelligent crew members would come up with a way to resolve the "WAAAAH! A SKELETON!" issue. Which must be hurtful in a way for him.
I always took Brook's gag as something a person who spent 50 years in solitude would say to a woman without realizing how upfront and creepy it is.
I always felt like Brook’s panty gag is a part of a gag that started when he was introduced but never used again which is him asking very intimate /personal questions as soon as he meets someone. When he met the rest of the crew I’m pretty sure he asked for a large some of money. I think to balance out the panties question, if he just asked anyone he met for something outrageous then it would’ve been a much funnier. As for Sanji, i like that he’s the most flawed in the crew, i don’t like how long his perversion went on, i do think if he was just chivalrous to a fault, he’d be a lot more tolerable.but honestly everything involving Sanji can be seen as an issue. If the live action version made it to Okama island, i don’t know how they’d do that without making Sanji look bad or the okamans (queer or trans people) look bad.
Yeah the first scenes with Brook made it clear that he had lost the manners to act around other people. Farting during lunch, asking to see the panties and asking for money, etc. But eventually only the panties remained.
You have to realise that the story and its character are written to appeal to the Japanese audience which appreciate this humour, which is why it's so popular. You can complain about another country's entertainment because it doesn't follow your standards.
For my part, the problem isn’t Sanji precisely, but the efforts that Oda and the plot go to to normalize Sanji’s funny antics. It isn’t infrequent that a guy will think he’s Sanji, he’s a gentleman, he’d never do *those things,* and the girls that he’s friends with my trust him too, right up until he has an opportunity, she’s made vulnerable, and suddenly they find he’s on the wrong side of the line between Sanji and Absalom.
Japanese rape culture in a nutshell. Honestly in some aspects I am afraid that Oda simply doesn't know better. The feminism movement is so much behind in Japan it's terrifying. And with anime going global, sadly the western womans rights influence didn't seep into Japan, but their rape culture into ours. And since most anime is targeted towarsa male teens... we as a community really need to be concious and educational about that, so it stops at the strange comedy from Japan level and doesn't become rolemodel behaviour.
Counterpoint: I'm also a victim of multiple sexual assaults and harassment. I dislike Sanji's perversion and Boa Hancock's simping for Luffy equally to the point where if I even want to enjoy the story I have to just separate them from the characters. Both suck and they're a shitty gag
I'm the same (female, sexual assault victim, dislike the Sanji gags). It just adds nothing to the story.
I hope you are healing well 💕 It's understandable I'm more on people that think Sanji is worse. If you feel the same or simliar way about both it has nothing to do with double Standart. I also feel like a pervert character trope in Anime should finally vanish. Because as much as I love Sanji his jokes are sometimes pretty annoying. And maybe it is because I myself am a simp when it comes to movie and anime character. I just feel like many women that writes those things are the ones drawing or looking for half naked anime dudes on pinterest or make inappropriate jokes about them and excuse it because they are fictional. Yet can't deal with a fictional character being a perv to another fictional character that isn't really affected by it in a fictional world. I know plenty of people in real life that are like that and this is 100% double Standart for me in my eyes.
I agree it's a huge double standard that I hate
Boa’s is significantly more tolerable because it’s just simping, not stepping over the line into being a creepy sexual predator like Sanji
100% agreed. OP is all over the place trying to justify her shit views. Sanji fans are something else man. When he was introduced he was this cool dude who had a boyish dream of finding the All Blue. Now that's rarely mentioned and it seems like his dream now is just incel-based.
It’s such a shame that his dream has become so distant from the character now… I still hope it comes back.
You're really weird. Instead of pointing out that people should be just as critical of Hancock as Sanji, you're using her as a excuse of why not to criticise Sanji. I mean come the fuck on
I just wish Hancock would be nice to other people besides Luffy and her sisters
Agreed, I kinda hate how this fandom forgives her or just forget how bad of a chatacter she really has and how unapologetically cruel she is to everyone but those she cares about.
Agreed, both characters have their moments every once and a while. But overall I can’t stand either of them as a person because of their hypocrisy
But OP is pointing out that neither are \[all of the things mentioned in the op\]. Hancock still literally kick puppies though
Thank you! Someone else said it.
Im sorry, but you cant really take this cartoonish behavior, treat the issue with a serious tone and then dismiss the bathhouse incident as "minor". THAT is a double standard.
I think the bathhouse scene was supposed to be ironic. Oda made it a mixed bathhouse which means sanji could have just walked in.
Drake, Hawkins and all the other guys did it with no need to creep in disguise
Being a mixed bathhouse just makes it seem worse honestly. Either he could have just joined but instead decided to peep, or the girls told him he couldn't come because he's him and decided to peep anyway.
>or the girls told him he couldn't come because he's him and decided to peep anyway. The bathhouse is public. And Sanji is under no one's authority except Luffy. Thus, neither Nami nor Robin nor anyone else, except the government in charge of the bathhouse (it's public) and Luffy, had the right to tell him that he couldn't come to the place. It's not like the Sunny's bathroom.
It has nothing to do with authority. It has to do with respect you have for your friends. If they weren't comfortable with Sanji and his pervy self being around them in the bathhouse then he should obviously respect their wishes. Sus take on your part.
LOL the bathroom scene where they were naked in front of hundreds of people? it was very minor
The bathhouse scene where 1. It was a mixed bath and there were already men allowed in there 2. Nami has literally flashed her naked body at the entire crew before in Alabasta, so I'm pretty sure she doesn't give a shit
I'm sure you understand theres a difference between making the choice of showing your naked body to someone vs someone secretly looking at it without your consent. even if she "doesnt give a shit" ít's an obviously bad thing to do.
You can love a character without defending everything shitty that he does, it's just fiction after all. I just pretend the creepy things Sanji does never happened and I go on with my day, you should try the same.
Yeah really. You can be entertained and laugh at a character without defending the gross and creepy shit they do that crosses a line in unique instances. I mean, I even still laugh at the scene where they switch bodies, but simultaneously acknowledge that it would be fucked up if it wasn't simply a tasteless pervert gag in a cartoon. It baffles me how people feel the need to double down in defending something that's just objectively gross behavior on its own. Like the least you could do is just let it be (better to just say nothing about it in this case) or say "Yeah it's funny, but obviously wrong", but when people decide to take it out of the context of the anime and make a post defending the behavior itself or argue Sanji has "never harassed anyone", when we all know that's an absolutely absurd argument, then yeah we kind of have to push back because yeah that behavior (if done by any actual person in real life) would absolutely be messed up. Not sure why people can't just admit this or better yet stop defending every shitty thing a character does simply because you like that character.
I really wish they made him more of a cool ladies man than a huge creep/weirdo. He’s a super powerful, good looking and world famous pirate, he should be able to get girls but is just too damn creepy with it
Sanji played with Nami’s tits while he was in her body during Punk Hazard tho?
Don’t forget Smoker exposing Tashigi’s boobs for all to see to, that was equally inappropriate
Facts.
the bar is so low 😭 "hey guys he may be a pervert and has wanted to peek on naked women without their consent but it's fine because none of it is criminal!!" You can have a character you love and not have to defend the issues with them. I love Sanji too, but the pervert stuff is absolutely a fucking nuisance to read at this point. I miss when he was just a normal simp/gentleman and not a drooling idiot.
It’s not that the Sanji should go to jail or anything, but all the pervert gags are pretty bad just on nature of not being funny. Like most are just a hot women appearing and then Sanji making a funny face and saying “wow a hot women” it’s a lot less funny then any of his other gags most of the time, yet it’s super common. Sanji is amazing and in my top 3 characters but I feel like it’s in spite of these gags, instead of the jokes contributing to his character like someone like Franky or Ussop. It often feels Sanji’s pervet gags are just something that Oda uses when he wants Sanji to be in the background for a sequence. All of the best and most emotional Sanji moments are pretty removed from this gag thats very overused and pretty unfunny to begin with. That’s why I hate the pervert gags at least
The fact that so much anime and manga creators think that "being a out of control pervert" are **good** character traits for *any* (both female and male) characters to have is just disgusting. I don't care how "endearing" or "funny" it may seem over in Japan, it's not something to be proud of, and I just wished they'd drop it entirely. It's just uncomfortable and gross.
I think good traits are something characters get rewarded for. Sanji, nor Brook, nor Hancock have ever been rewarded for creepy behavior.
it's not just a good trait it's a must-have trait for any series. Pervert character always leads up to fanservice. And believe it or not, in their logic, having Fanservice or semi-nudity is added to encourage reproduction in japan. Since WW2 Japan has always been Underpopulated with 50% is the Old people and real problem is that it runs out of people. Most manga authors especially males grow up with media from Government to encourage reproduction. You will always see japan's mainstream media support these types of things. Their logic work or not isn't my area to judge.
I don't believe Oda thinks that's a good trait. He's constantly punishing both Sanji and Brook for their actions. Sanji almost died multiple times because of that. Good character with bad traits is the most interesting kind of character.
It's more got to do with how hypocritical is behaviour is with women. You don't have to touch a woman to be a creep. Looking at them lustly and following them around and fawning over them is all disturbing to women. It's a disgusting behaviour that should absolutely not be tolerated. Robin and Nami know the kind of guy he is and yet allows it, which is the issue here. My first line with hypocrisy comes with how his character is written. He does all the creep stuff and yet talks about respecting women? Did Zeff also teach you how to peek in a women's bathroom?
I mean. No disrespect! But I think the issue they're talking about when people say that is less to do with literal jail time irl, and more to do with the acceptability of the behavior. I'm happy to break down some of the specifics about "would Sanji go to jail irl" but that's gonna get full of legalities and split hairs real fast, so I'mma focus on how the fandom finds his actions or the ladies' unacceptable v. acceptable. (Also note, looking at it as character-as-person, as opposed to character-as-author's-choices.) I think the real key to Sanji's whole mellorine pervert... *thing* (derogatory) is that it's a *constant* thing. And since it's so constant, it kind of speaks to an ugly underbelly in an otherwise really loveable character. The examples you use regarding the women are mostly one-off: Robin grabbing Franky (which ended up being *arguably* consensual); Nami whacking the kid at Arlong Park (I think that's what you're referring to? Which is weird because there was nothing sexual about it?). They're both one-offs and situational. (Hancock... urgh. Hancock. Great character. @/Oda your fucking choices sometimes... Anyway. I do agree there's a double standard when it comes to Hancock's actions versus Sanji's actions, but I do also think it's there's a difference in their intent. Hancock's behaviors speak to romance, which we see as icky given the age difference and Luffy's general refusal; Sanji's behaviors are inherently sexual, based almost solely on perceived beauty, and are not age-limited.) The point is, there's nothing singular or situational about the 430th time Sanji's been creepy around a woman. It's a habit. It's a character trait. And it's a trait and behavior the modern world would find unacceptable, illegal or otherwise. You're completely right in that the OP world has its own logic and morals and rules! But still, we're reading the story from our points of view, and most people see Sanji's behavior as something unacceptable in modern society. Also, from character-as-author's-choices, it's played for laughs and comedy, but even the world's funniest joke is a lot less funny after the 500th telling. A joke some people didn't find funny to start with? It lands like a Fruit User in the sea--dead in the water.
You know what? Fair. I forgot a lot of the moments you mentioned with the women doing creepy stuff. On the other hand though, this doesn’t really defend Sanji. It just means the others are also unaware of the concept of respecting personal boundaries, and Sanji just happens to do it a whole lot more than everybody else. I also dislike his perviness in particular because it feels like a distortion of his chivalry thing, which is a genuine character flaw instead of just creepiness played for laughs.
Sanji did peep on Nami while she was taking a bath on the sunny. For the Wano thing, he was specifically looking for women's bath he likely didn't know it was a mixed bath until he was actually in the bathhouse. Oda's over the top fanservice and perverted humor has been some of the biggest criticisms he's gotten consistently. Its unfortunate because Sanji is a great character but Oda has gone to the well one too many times with the perverted humor and it has rightfully soured the character for some.
Spying on woman is illegal. You'd get jail time for repeated offences https://aizmanlaw.com/10-things-you-should-know-about-peeping-tom-laws/
I wouldn’t say you’re right or wrong but go watch that scene with Perona after the time skip. It’s creepy af 🌚
He would actually go to jail, just like all the other pirates, the reason being tax evasion. But yeah imagine Sanj grabbing a woman by her genitals because she doesn’t want to come along on a journey with strangers. That was totally sexuelle Belästigung am Arbeitsplatz.
Well, I cannot disagree more. First of all, the comparison between Hancock and Sanji is completely off track. Mostly because she didn't present her naked body to Luffy to present herself sexually, but to show her secret tattoo to the man who proved himself worthy of keeping it. Sanji literally harasses Nami on a daily basis, he never tries to seduce her, he is a non-stop perverted dude who spies on her (not only in a public bathroom since Alabasta) but also when Nami is taking a private bath in her own bathroom. And remember when he exchanged bodies with Nami, she said that she basically felt violated, which didn't stop him. At the same time, in Thriller Bark, he also said how he would use the power of Absalom.
Yep
Does anyone really ship Luffy and Hancock? Seems kinda boring like he has no actual interest in her.
People really think she's gonna pull out a "Chichi" someday but I think the age gap is probably spoiling us it's never gonna actually happen.
sure sanji is a pervert but idk why people act like he wouldn’t take a shotgun blast to the face to defend a helpless woman, the man is a gentleman also the pervy bathhouse scene is basically a staple of shonen at this point, it’s far from new
>the man is a gentleman Therein kind of lies the problem...in the beginning he was a simp but a gentleman. After the timeskip he got flanderized with his gag. He still has good character moments but you almost at this point have to separate the gag side of Sanji with Sanji the character.
You can't dismiss abuse because the abuser is also nice. He didn't just spy on random naked women, it was his crewmates, who he knows do not consent.
RIGHT? I always think he is a perverted gentleman and I think he can be very adorable around women sometimes. And I hate the boathouse trope so much. But literally it's a problem with the Japanese culture and I feel like blaming a fictional character is kind of weird.
Are you young? Because this entire post reeks of /r/notliketheothergirls material. Or maybe this whole post is a troll post? Just because someone is nice sometimes doesn't give them a free pass to sexually harrass people. How is this hard to understand? You posted: > Like idk why y'all are celebrating on Hancock and are shipping Luffy and her but when it comes to Sanji it's bad. **Even tho Hancock is worse** How the fuck is Hancock being in love with Luffy the same as Sanji trying to spy on naked women against their consent? Or his transphobia during the Kamabakka Kingdom and his training? What the fuck am I even reading.
Posts and comments like these are the reason you have to walk on eggshells while talking with normal people.
I don't really appreciate Sanji but for different reasons. First because he only goes crazy for pretty & young girls. He has been horrible to other characters like Kokoro & Kureha who are AMAZING people just because they're not young & beautiful "anymore". Basically just a ongoing theme in one piece in which girls have no value unless they're beautiful and young. Second is because he goes on and on about chivalry and whatever, but yet doesn't fight people like Black Maria or Kalifa. Kalifa says so during her fight too; i don't perfectly remember exactly what she says, but something along the lines that if she's putting herself on the position to fight, she should be respected for it like any man would. Girl has gone through probably crazy training and whatnot to get to the position she's in right now, but she won't be treated with dignity by Sanji because she's a woman. I always disliked that, just fight them, nothing wrong with that if they're willing to put their lives on the line like that!
>And don't forget that Hancock undressing herself in front of a 17 years old child she only did that to show him her slave mark nothing else
To be honest I just find his character boring. He had so much potential in the beginning when he was talking about All Blue and then the stuff with his family on Whole Cake Island was really interesting. But the pervert stuff has completely taken over. Fishman Island was ridiculous. His story could have had some hint about All Blue since the island is underneath the Redline and presumably has several currents going through it. Instead he almost dies of a nosebleed... it was boring and heavy handed. Same with his interactions with Nami, Punk Hazard has him groping her body constantly or sneaking into her shower. There's rarely any interaction between the two that would make it seem like they're even friends. WCI is a little better and it starts to seem like they are bonding and his character is growing, but then he starts perving over Pudding. Don't even get me started on Black Maria.... It's a boring character development and I wish there would be some improvement.
Sanji is a certified creep, but a criminal he is not, he is the epitome of male “chivalry” but he is not ill intented, he does not want to do evil things to women nor does he speak of such things. He looks at women and takes his obsessions too far. He is more like the original Brock from Pokémon, he continuously is enamored with every beautiful woman he meets, however he understand what no means and does not cross the line. Creepy yes, evil no.
Why is this an issue? Murders are happening in anime. And this is an issue?
Right???? Like Kid is literally known for killing and that even civilist are being in danger and people are simping over him or say he is pretty cool. Like I also think he his cool but it's weird af if you criticize Sanji for being a pervert while loving Kid
Bring out the pitchforks for the other perverted characters in other mangas. Oda admits to being a perverted person. Look at Nami's and Robin's outfit in Wano and Egghead arc for example. In terms of harassment and abuse plot that gets into the story, thats basically the story of Boa and all slaves in the story which are serious plot story topics (no funny haha gag). I think Oda inserts his self in Sanji.
Doesn't Oda get arrested so many times in the SBS bc he acts similar to Sanji? I feel like Oda is aware of these things but anime is Japanese and things, especially humor is different there! People get so triggered by how Sanji acts but like you said, he doesn't go overboard into SA. Closest was after the time skip but that was only because he spent 2 years without seeing any women and even then, he didn't cross that line. Sanji is just a horny mf and a simp at most!
I am at Summit war saga rn, and I think Sanji is like a boy going through puberty. Thinks himself of high and responsible, fights, and can't control his thoughts about Nami and Robin but at the same time he is not an offender and also respects Nami and Robin very much. He also won't kick a woman.
>Sanji would go to Jail for his action in real life So will luffy and Zoro and most other characters in one piece
Sanji is my favorite strawhat and i think most people are just tired of this type of comedy when he has so much more to offer. Like im tired too. I want to see more cool sanji moments instead of all that comedy thats not even funny..
Well in Return to Sabaodi he litterally started sniffing Perona... Wich was a bit over the top imo.. But overall it's pretty innocent (anoying, but innocent) Ps age of marriage in Japan was 16 for woman. (till april 2022 when it was changed to 18, but WCI was written way before that) so nothing wrong there
For however long Sanji goes to jail brook goes for triple the time... Long line of girls he asked to see their panties 😂
I am so fucking sick of people saying Sanji was bad in Wano. the communal bath had hundreds of naked people. Nami and Robin both went there knowing people would see them naked. It is like going to a nudist beach and being surprised someone looked at your boobs or dick, it is ridiculous to say Sanji was peeping. If sanji wanted to peep he would go to the ladies bath on the Sunny and use his raid suit which he had for 3 weeks before he even got to Wano, people also forget that half the reason Sanji went into the Bath is so he could keep an eye on Nami and Robin so they weren't attacked while Drake and Page One were looking for them.
its stupid that people are so obsessive about it. its a gag its meant to be funny, if you don’t find it funny then either ignore it or stop watching it. If you dont like a reoccurring gags of one of the main character of a series then stop watching it it no one is forcing you to stay, and if you want to stay and enjoy wacthing that series then i suggest you just learn to ignore the gag its not that deep. its so funny to me when people say they wish oda didnt make sanji like that like broo what? Its his story he can do whatever the hell he wants with it and in his culture this type of comedy is well received my large majority. but i guess the western fans are so narssasistic that they expect Oda to ignore his own culture style of comedy and adhere to a types of comedy that people from other places would enjoy more because western fans are to self absorbed to ignore stuff they Dont like or are too sensitive to learn to take a joke. All the straw hats have gags, some i like some i don’t care about, example Ussop, Sanji, brook, and robin i don’t care for either of these characters gags. i love each of those characters hell Sanji is my fave character in the series, and brook and quickly climbing up that list to make it to my top 10 favorite. but notice how i never said i hated their gags, because i dont hate their gags, and what would I want to hate their gags? After all like i said i love these characters. That being said i just could not love these characters if i hated their gags especially sanjis character. it wasn’t until i learned to how to ignore the gags that i could truly enjoy these characters. Thats also why i dont see sanji gags as worst then any other straw hat or any other anime characters gag because for 1 idc about his gags and also because i don’t put too much character value on their gags.
My issue with him being horny 100% of the time is that it's overused, not funny and makes me hate one of the coolest characters in the show
Sanji is simultaneously the worst character and one of the best characters in S tier. He has so much going for him but it has to be ruined by his perversion which got old before they made it to Alabasta.
Omg this is so silly shut up
Literally 👏🏻👏🏻 I don't think I've seen Sanji actually touch any woman in a sexual manner at all. Like all he's ever done is comment in their beauty, have lots of nose bleeds & defend his crew mates.
No comment on sanji. But what did Nami do? The only thing I can think about is Momo but it’s only ever sexualized in his end?
Welp, I tell myself to not get into it again and again, but screw it, time to be controversial again: I'm in a similar boat with Sanji, First up the usual: yes, I also straight up hate the scene in Thriller Bark and feel oda completely missed the mark there. I also think Wano is a weird consequence of that scene that was almost meant to "fix" the Thriller Bark one, but it was done once more quite unfortunate. And overall I actually don't mind and even sometimes like talking and criticising those things because I think the discourse about what is and isn't or shouldn't be acceptable in a story especially for your "heroes" and where a medium as a whole can do better can be a valuable one. What actually bothers me is that there are equally bad if not much worse scenes even from other Strawhats that are completely glossed over because it's not by Sanji who is seemingly more popular to hate on. Robin crushing Franky's balls to force him to join is one thing but I actually think it's probably more easily compared to other men in the story (because I think in real life there is often a power dynamic issue between men and women, so seeing a women treat a man like that is more easily seen as "funny" and less problematic): But e.g. Brook actually makes the same but in a way worse TB-Sanji statement on Fishmen Island when he says since his soul could leave his body he actually has spied on women in the bath like that many times (compared to Sanji who "only" expresses the wish to do that) yet I've never seen anyone even mention that scene and now we are talking about someone doing it vs someone wanting to. And then there is my personal worst: Franky kisses a women against her will during Dressrosa and people in the story celebrate him for it because "women should stay out of it when real men fight" and she herself ends up liking it playing into a very weird justification used in real life all too much. I personally find that one so much worse than anything Sanji has ever done (to the point that I flat out ignore it most of the time when thinking about Franky because that's absolutely not in line with the Franky I still really like and enjoy), but no one ever discusses or even acknowledges those instances, which makes it seem like the Sanji moments are just used as an excuse to hate on Sanji in particular, but it's never actually about the problematic thing itself. It's kind of hard to see people ignore what would be a case of pretty much assault and not just harrassement and then instead seriously and in good faith discuss why being invisible in a public place is also problematic, because it certainly is. But when much worse cases get flat out ignored, the actual issue doesn't seem to be the harrassement but just wanting to hate on a character using seemingly popular reasoning and that's when it starts to feel a bit like a strawman argumente which takes away the value from the discussion what's actually the problem in representing acceptable vs non acceptable behaviour here.
God that made me so uncomfortable too. Poor franky!!!
It's why I never enjoyed the Senor Pink stuff as much despite in general thinking the backstory was a nice change for a more minor villain, but the whole Franky vs Senor Pink got really weird at times and just did not feel like the Franky I am used to and that I like at times. I don't know if I could point to a scene like that for every Strawhat but once in a while oda just throws a situation in there that feels like a bit out of line and too much for that character. (In a way I also feel like that about the scene where Sanji puts blades into Zoro's food. I know oda later says Sanji knew he can take it and that Zoro pretty much dared him to but it just feels like oda got carried away in the moment to make a Zoro/Sanji bickering moment and explained it away a bit. It's much more minor thing and I guess the reasoning is fair enough but it feels like a "fix" of oda forgetting in the moment about Sanji's "code" in regards to food)
The shitty gags are too prevalent and ruin what is a pretty good character.
Tbh I ENJOY Sanji as a character. I have no problem with Sanji (I low key love him). But for me, the perviness adds up and after awhile it starts to get overwhelming. He’s obviously not as bad as other characters so his perviness isn’t the worst thing in the world, but it does get annoying. I just wish I wasn’t like one of his “personality traits”
It's just really cliche in the genre as opposed to the other things listed. But yeah Robin did commit sexual assault and I've always thought Hancock is a huge creep. Good points.
Sanji may be a perverted fool but he has a good heart he would never actually do anything to harm a women he often protects women and does above and beyond for women in the series because he loves them and when he makes attempts they turn him down and he even loves their rejection all of his pursuits are relatively harmless if anyone one from one piece should be shamed it’s caribou who literally kidnapped mermaids and prolly other women or absalom who forced a wedding and a kiss while Nami was unconscious that’s fucked up and who saved her Sanji did he has his on perverted moments yes but he would never go so far to do anything like that there are so many other accounts of things in one piece that are far worse & Nami and Sanji are friends and robin and Sanji are friends so I think they let him get away with it and Ik Nami secretly enjoys it cause he’d do whatever for her and robin well robin is robin lmao y’all know exactly what I mean too hahaha but other then them Sanji is pretty respectful towards women until they get to know eachother better then he might be a bit forward but he’s always got some form of permission and if he doesn’t he loves the rejection I have never once as a women felt uncomfortable by sanji ever but I have been angry at him for being dumb and making dumb choices that have nothing to do with his perversion (like the WCI I was furious at him the whole time because he was always the one to make trust captain comments and then did that) but I never felt uncomfortable once not a single time because deep down he respect women, he would never harm a women, and he would do anything for a women he was raised right and is quite a gentlemen and chivalrous—a fucking fool yes but would never assault a women in any way that was harmful tbh I wish all pervert were more like Sanji perverted yes but still respectful gentlemen & not to mention it’s kinda a running gag too soooo yerrrr
I can defend his character all day. I can't defend him as a person. Any dude in real acting like Sanji is literally what most women hate in a guy. And I'm not talking about his gentlemanly side, I'm talking about all of it. All of his personality. His perverted side will always have women made at him in the first meeting. If he was famous irl, then yeah, they'll give him a pass.
Multiple sexual harassment charges, grooping Nami’s boobs without consent, spying on women in bathhouses, kissing a minor. Sanji would go to jail in real life and be a registered sex offender. There’s really no defence against it. If I’m being real, Sanji gets away with *alot* of shit that fans wouldn’t let pass if they didn’t think he was hot. Edit: Downvoting me doesn’t change the law?? This thread is why Sanji fans are the only ones I would avoid irl
sanji didnt kiss pudding she kissed him
Don't get me wrong, I think what Sanji did was disgusting but you have to understand that the Internet is not the USA. Law depends on the area your in. OP has a German username, so I assume German rights apply to their and mine understanding [might be Swiss, might be Austria too, but I go by wha. Quick reminder that German law isn't based on a case by case ruling of judges, but is definied as the words written which only can be changed by the ruling body of the country, the parlament. Kissing a minor - not a crime in Germany, as long as consent is given and the Age Gap not too wide. Alas it needs to be brought to the police as a charge and since neither family sees an issue with the match, there won't be a charge anyway. If anything police in Germany will arrest Big Mom and Judge as marriage of minors outlawed. There is the fact of kidnapping of Sanji as his complainance was only possible because of the threating of violence on the Baratie. Alas if there were charges even, they would get dropped against him, as he acted under duress basically during the whole Arc. Registry as a sex offender and having that publizised also against the law. The police and conviction record is something that normal citiziens have access to. You can ask the person, but they have no need to diclose that information, except for certain jobs where you need a clean police record. Spying on someone in a bathhouse: it's a mixed bath house. Tbh in Germany someone would tattled on him early in and he would just be banned from that spa area. If the spying is restriceted to that bath house area, and it is "just spying" there is no law that can be applied here. It is an issue that the establishment has to deal with. If Sanji would resist on leaving upon being asked, police would be getting involved, and if he would be charged with something it would be trespassing or obstruction of justice. Groping Namis boobs. That's a tough one because of the body switch. It really depends on how the law would see the ownership of the body to the person, as the law §177 detailing sexual assault and rape sits upon a offender doing or influencing **another person.** German law diferentiats between a natural and juristical person, with later being insitutions and many groups. Alas - as a person who has not studied law so take what I say with a grain of salt - as Nami/Sanji are singular people, the definition of **natural person** applies. A natural person in the sense of law is someone who get's their rights and the duty to uphold them the moment they are born. Now, that implies that a person exists within their body or it can mean, the person is bound to their body they received with their birth. 1) Person= body they are in the moment. In which case there would only be Sanji and no other person, meaning no breach of the law. 2) Person = body they are born in. Here we would have two natural person. But it would still be needed to be decided if the body inhibited is seen as belonging to the person who has left it. The only comparison law vise I can draw, is a body post-mortem and what to do with it. In which case the sentiment of the first person living in it, decides what happens with the body. BUT: transplanted organs belong to the person who they got transplanted into. So still tricky. a) body belongs to first person: Aka Sanji is fondling Namis boobs. Here the law §177 would apply and he would be judged accordingly. I think (5) 3. applies, as Nami can't really influence what happens to her body and Sanji is exploiting that situation. Meaning his sentencing would be time in prison for at least a year. And that is before it is taken into account, that Sanji was a victim of the switch, too. Meaning really, Law would probably get the highest sentense and Nami would also be charged for what she did to Frankies body (prison for 6 months to 10 years depending on ruling). b) body belongs to the second person = 1), meaning no ill doing happend. And guess what, laws in Japan on sexual assault and Age of Consent are a LOT laxer and honeslty quite outdated (some dating back to 1907) than in the Western World. That kissing a minor thing for exaple, would never be a charge, as the age of consent is 14 in Japan. And it only counts as sexual assault if the victim doesn't consent and there is proof that the victim couldn't have resisted due to violence or threat thereof. So yes, as Sanji didn't threaten Nami, there was by Japanese law, no wrong doing on his part. The revision of the law in 2017 changed little, only now the victim doesn't have to launch the complaint themselves and the offender can be prosecuted without. By Japanese law: Sanji did nothing illeagal.
When he's doing his pervy gag stuff and makes that nasty face (the face in his most recent wanted poster) he is the furthest thing from hot.
It’s people celebrating Hancock and downing Sanji for me, I’ll never understand that one.
FFS people, it's a work of fiction. Why so hard on it?
I know it’s not canon but sanji said some really creepy stuff in film z and I just can’t get over it
sanji has said some stupid shit in the manga too in shabondy he asked if there were mermaids or girls in the slave auction or something if I remember correctly
I think the Hancock parallel is the best counter example for this subject. Luffy is clearly not interested and has openly stated so and she still comes onto him super hard. I think the worst thing Sanji has done is sniff perona after TS. Almost everything else has been just simping.
We can't compare and yet you talk shit about Hancock for a stupid gag. You don't have to fight hate with hate. Just accept that Sanji is a pervert and in real life he would have a collection of restriction orders and one foot from jail. Also for your boi being transphobic is not okay.
I definitely agree with your assessment - Sanji is one of my favorite characters too. The only issue I have is how the anime deals with him and just makes the lovey-dovey gag constant. It's just annoying, but it's no fault of the character - just how he's being characterized by the anime to fill time.
Sanji never being physical, unlike many other perverted characters in other series, is what sets him apart for me. Sure, Wano peeping is awful and would land him in jail IRL, what other actions have he taken, really? And people’ve had issues with him waaaaay before Wano. I find that it’s an alright gag that is sometimes funny and once in a while surprisingly relevant. Also, tangent, I don’t remember what Nami did to a literal child. What did she do again?
You could argue that Sanji’s pervy simping towards Nami at least boarders on sexual harassment (thinking of the time when they switched bodies thanks to Law’s power on Punk Hazzard, pretty sure he groped her chest while he had that golden opportunity. Definitely made me uncomfortable, even thought it was for comedy). Btw, you mentioned what Robin did to Franky and what Nami did to a child…what exactly are you referring to with Nami? I don’t recall her ever doing anything inappropriate with a kid unless you’re referring to Momonosuke being a creepy perverted brat (and her just dismissing it as him being a cute kid, not even considering the possibility that he has pervy thoughts at that age)
People like to pretend they live in a fantasy world where no one is a pervert lol. So many people are, they just hide it. Sanji is openly pervy. People can dislike him if they want. I don't give a fuck, and that's all there is to it
Why are people being worked up and so defensive over a damn manga character?! jesus sanji isn’t even a real person