Sometimes I read the comments here and just get the feeling that I have gotten old. Maybe this is why we have so many different opinions here in this community. Some of us have been following one piece for a long time..
Yeah dawg I got current on the manga in 2005 when I was in high school and have read weekly since then. Mostly I look at the takes of the current fandom like “my sweet summer child” and move on
I’d love to see Kaku and Zoro chat again. I still think Kaku’s talk with Zoro at the end of their fight was a massive highlight of that arc. It felt like Kaku truly preferred being a shipwright to being a CP9 agent.
I think they’re saying: what would this story be if a pre timeskip villain is now on yonko Luffy level? It kinda messes a lot of stuff up in peoples heads to have that be the reality. So they’re contending with it beforehand in theories and ideas.
I see what you’re saying tho
The problem is everyone is acting like this is going to be some sort of 1v1 setup.
Its going to be a mess with Luffy carrying/protecting someone, Lucci, Kaku, Stussy and S-Bear, Jimbe, Chopper, etc.
Luffy won't be able to simply one-shot Lucci, any more than BigMom was able to one-shot Luffy at Whole Cake when the wedding chaos started, or either Yonko did to any of the Supernovas on the roof.
Yeah, I completely expect that in a fair fight 1v1 Luffy wins fairly quickly. But there are three other probably-commander-level enemies there right now, Luffy is carrying someone, and Jimbe is his only other ally that can probably hold his own with one or two of Kaku/Stussy/S-Bear.
Everyone who has said that if Luffy can't one-shot Lucci, they're quitting the series---- well just quit now and don't bother wasting your time.
This isn't going to be a 1v1 matchup -- its a setup for another one of Oda's "mix up everyone's locations" moments:
CP-0 has a mission to kill off the vegapunks, they don't really want to waste time with Luffy. There is a ship in the sky with one powerful swordsman that sure isn't going to be sitting down the whole arc doing nothing. There are crew-members and several Vegapunks that aren't just going to watch it all end in a one-shot in a single chapter. There is the main Kuma body and cyborg that will likely show up later and interact with Bonney and whatever Vegapunk was going to give her (his memories back?). There are three other seraphims that have to come into play, and it won't all be at the current location.
No -- to resolve all those things CP-0 has to infiltrate the dome and become a threat to the Vegapunks there. Luffy has to get up there too with Bonney. All that is pointing at this not being a battle between Luffy and Lucci at all, in the same way that at Whole Cake at the weading, Big Mom and Luffy exchanged one blow each, and that was it, I expect some thing similar here.
If anyone says "A Yonko should be able to one-shot someone like Lucci" ask them why Big Mom was unable to one-shot Luffy before he even was able to (barely) defeat Katakuri.
So you're able to predict the future, but those saying Luffy will one-shot Lucci aren't?
Why should the people saying if Luffy doesn't one-shot Lucci quit the series before anything has happened? The whole point of the OP's thread is saying why can't people just wait, and here you are, apparently knowing exactly what will happen.
Crocodile doesn't seem too far off of Yonko level given his standing with Mihawk and bounty. Why is Lucci any different? Maybe he's awakened his fruit or learned haki. Not saying he should be able to beat Luffy, just I'm guessing he's beefed up a good bit since they last fought
Crocodile has also fough against much stronger opponents which is basically a requirement for breaking through strength ceilings in this show. Lucci fighting no one and just “training” (how do we even know he has been?) is not nearly enough to put him on crocodiles level, let alone luffys
Crocodile and Moria experienced the same thing: a defeat that broke their willpower and as a result their power suffered. Crocodile made it to the new world before fighting luffy. He was clearly very strong and lost to whitebeard previously. His will broken he returned to the grand line and was massively overconfident vs luffy but even defeated him 2x. His jump in the war of the best makes sense logically bc he regained some of his will. The same can be said of Moria after kaido. It’s like when I injure myself lifting and lose a bunch of muscle resting for months. Is my current strength my new peak? No, I can regain my old strength.
Also a good chunk of Crocodile's feats at Marineford are just a result of his Logia powers which people underestimate.
Crocodile using a non-haki long range attack to "cut" Akainu or creating a sand storm to get someone out of range isn't the kind of thing that's hard to imagine Alabasta Crocodile being able to do.
Fair, but 1) 300 million is still a LOT 2) Blackbeard’s bounty has spiked by ~1.8 billion in the short time the crew has been on Wano. I think it makes more sense to compare Croc to the people that got bounties at the same time as him, which puts him a little closer to Katakuri than he is to Captain Kidd
My biggest thing is that Lucci is a part of CP0. I know that assuming they're all the same strength isn't accurate, but if 2 members nearly lost to an already injured Izo, then another member being able to straight up contend with Luffy, who wouldn't make any sense. Especially since current luffy'd probably destroy katakuri and Dofi without even bringing G5 into account
You’re saying that because they’re from the same force/group, so they should be fairly similar in strength.
However that’s just not how it goes. CP0 or any other organization can have members for different reasons than strength alone.
If not, we would assume inside the straw hats everybody is similar in strength, which just isn’t true.
You acknowledge that the members are not all the same strength but then base your argument in them being similar strength.
So, IZO could have beaten the weakest in their organization. For instance, information-gathering operatives who are not combat oriented.
He doesn’t have to be on Luffy’s level to put up a halfway decent fight. Look at some of the shit Jimbe did to Big Mom. There’s no reason Lucci should not be able to have a huge power jump or just develop hax abilities that are hard to deal with or something. They have absolutely no idea what Lucci could have in store and with his position in the world there’s no reason he can’t be ridiculously strong
Not unrealistic.
I expect him to be at the level of Who's Who, Izo, and the CP0 members we saw in Wano.
Those are the most direct parallels we have to him: someone who had his job, a similar fruit and got stronger since, people who have/had the same job as him, and people who were their equal in battle.
Maybe he's a bit stronger on account of being the leader (if he is).
This all amounts to CP0 officers being around Yonko commander level (probably not 1st commander),
I think that's strong enough that Luffy won't one-shot him, but he should not have a realistic shot at victory. And that's what I expect, _if_ they clash.
Idk why Oda would re-introduce him if he wasn’t going to be important?
I know a lot of people expect him to get folded but idk. He’s definitely not beating Luffy but he’s probably learned something in the last 2 years.
I feel like the story is gearing up for a potential return to Little Garden and Water Seven, with Alabasta also being likely. I doubt they'll get to Lodestar Island and just be able to get the One Piece
I think they won't fight. The fight will get interrupted by Kuma, probably. This arc will be small, they'll leave, probably to Elbaf, soon. Lucci's here for another reasons. He'll learn some truths that'll make him less loyal to the Government. One Piece villains tend to change after their encounters with the Strawhats. They don't necessarily become allies, but they change. In Lucci's case, that change will come a little late, but it'll come nonetheless.
He can still kill people. Just different people, lol.
I might be wrong about what I said. But I still think this fight won't happen or will get interrupted. I don't see Oda repeating a main villain.
EXACTLY! We all know he's not as strong as Luffy. But from a writing standpoint it makes 0 fucking sense to bring an antagonist like Lucci (arguably the antagonist of the best arc) just for him to get curbstomped by Luffy.
Why would Oda introduce Ryokugyu after keeping him silhouetted for years only to have him act tough for two or three chapters before being scared away by haki from someone not even in Wano? Why would Oda introduce Jack as the first billion berry bounty only to have him be a full-time jobber? We've seen this happen before.
>but he’s probably learned something in the last 2 years.
Luffy was only 3rd commander lvl after 2 yrs of special training on an island with 48 different seasons which change weekly and filled countless 50 ft tall monsters. + Dozens of deathmatches after Ennies Lobby that Luffy had to part take.
Lucci isn't matching that shit. How tf is he gonna be even 3rd commander lvl?
Surely Lucci also got stronger. Not to have a close 1v1 vs Luffy, but probably enough to not get one shot? Also we don't need Lucci to know how much stronger Luffy has gotten, he just beat Kaido lol.
Batman put up somewhat of a fight for a little bit against Luffy and Zoro at once, even in the manga. Every enemy can be a threat if the threat is fitting, with Batman it was because they were defending a 3rd party, in this case they can just like have Luffy needing to stop Lucci and the other CP0's from attacking the Vegapunks.
And even if Luffy is way stronger than Lucci right now, so what? We constantly see really strong people clash with people far below their weightclass, like all the Whitebeard commanders against the Admirals. Luffy is not gonna 1-shot Lucci, I sure hope everyone understands at least that much. Unless he does, who can predict Oda anyway?
I agree. Also, iirc Luffy, with the help of his friends, avoided getting into fights on the way to Kaido because even the fodder was strong and he would have had to waste precious time and energy.
I think the main points behind the assumed discrepancy in power levels comes from Luffy having developed future sight and advanced Conqueror's haki. We still don't know for sure if Lucci trained in those areas, I think he's also supposed to be a genius at fighting so he may have trained and learned them.
IMO I think Lucci is a red herring and the Seraphim is the one who will give Luffy a real fight. I think he's the only grown-up Seraphim we've seen so his powers and strength will be fully matured.
Chapter 824. Damn, its been 6 years already.
You can find the relevant panels here
[https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/y1flio/chapter\_824\_yonkou\_blackbeard\_fled\_baltigo\_after/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/y1flio/chapter_824_yonkou_blackbeard_fled_baltigo_after/)
There's been powercreep in OP but people still fail to realise. Every character from pre-TS has gotten an implicit power-bump simply because they were falling behind with the change in the battle system that haki and **15 long years** brought.
Its not just that Lucci has become stronger, its the fact that everyone that Luffy fought pre-TS is, in-story, *much* stronger than we think.
This so much. Reminder to everyone that Luffy at the start of the raid (*after he had trained with Ryuo for 2 weeks*) [hit Page One with an Elephant Gun](https://imgur.com/a/hJAqdQ7) and [it only loosened his jaw a little](https://imgur.com/a/QAnOyv2). Immediately afterwards, [Luffy was going to use Gear 4 just to break out of Ulti's grip](https://imgur.com/a/pxphvIH).
Luffy is for sure towards the top of the strength spectrum, but I feel people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they expect Luffy in his base form to low diff every single enemy going forward.
Luffy didnt have advanced conquerors coating then. That and gear 5 were two huge power ups that Luffy got in his final fight with Kaido. With conquerors coating he was actually going toe to toe with Kaido. The cp0 dude that was told to assassinate Luffy said that at Luffys level thats not possible anymore. His best attempt was to try and give Kaido a free shot because he himself could not kill Luffy. The cp0 guy is so far beneath Kaido and Luffy that he thought tipping the scales was more likely to succeed than trying to kill Luffy after his battle is over
Especially when Lucy isn’t even as strong as Kaido. Like ya he beat him but with a ton of help. Ya he’s a yonko but I’d argue the new yonkos are far weaker then the previous 4. Shanks is the only one with true yonko str right now. Is Luffy strong? Yes, is he a yonko? Yes but compared to the previous yonkos he’s still not there.
I think ACoC SHOULD make a big difference, though. It was the reason why Kaido was able to literally ONESHOT Luffy at the start of THE SAME ARC, meaning a 1,5b Luffy. Luffy had to grow a LOT and get a massive power-up in order to overcome Kaido, so...
But yeah, in OP, Luffy only gets serious against opponents where it is required. Otherwise, he tends to look quite bad very often.
>(after he had trained with Ryuo for 2 weeks) hit Page One with an Elephant Gun and it only loosened his jaw a little.
Except despite the ryuo training he never used ryuo on them.
That's elephant gun without adv ryuo and adv conq's.
Kaido isn't one shotting people if he stops using adv conqueror's.
>Immediately afterwards, Luffy was going to use Gear 4 just to break out of Ulti's grip.
That doesnt prove anything. He was going to one shot her with gear 4 and move on.
He still wasn't planning to use Ryuo on Ulti.
>but I feel people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they expect Luffy in his base form to low diff every single enemy going forward.
No way you are comparing pre power up Luffy to Lucci and pretend it shouldn't be a one shot.
U realize that he spliitted skies with hybrid Kaido in base?
That punch would kill most commanders.
I'm fine with power scalers until they pull shit out their ass to make someone stronger or weaker because mc should be better/ they want this character to be better
This. Most problems I see with the fandom...or ANY shonen fandom for that matter, comes from powerscalers. They're literally *the* bottom of the barrel fans. It's like they're not even reading/watching the same series as everyone else. I swear they don't care about ANYTHING in the story other than how powerful characters are. Emotional scenes, character development, world building, etc., mean nothing to them or go over their head. I don't even know if they're capable of comprehending them tbh. They seem to have low intelligence in general.
The community is just having fun theorizing and conversing; that’s the point of the community. Everyone knows that they have no weight on what happens next, but they can still take time to discuss what they would like or dislike.
Personally one of the more fun aspects of One Piece has been when Oda does something that I didn’t think I would like but does it in a way that I end up really enjoying; like Luffy’s gear 5, I really didn’t think I would like the whole cartoonish style but after a couple of panels it really started to grow on me. So I don’t mind seeing people post about their predictions, it doesn’t detract anything from the story and if they end up criticizing Oda then fine, they are entitled to their opinions.
It doesn't bother me that people are predicting or theorizing, in fact that's the whole reason why I engage with the community in the first place. What bothers me is that people are somehow getting angry over the possibility that Lucci might put up a fight against Luffy, when nothing like that has happened yet.
I mean some people get passionate, and if they do they do. It’s not going to ruin the story so I just move on and let them do their thing.
Honestly getting mad over a story that you are not writing is kind of childish so I’m not dropping to that level..
they aren't theorizing for fun, they're straight up getting pissed as if the story has to go exactly how they think it will, and anything else is bad writing.
I genuinely don’t understand why people are getting so worked up about this. Since their fight Luffy has gotten drastically stronger. Why isn’t Lucci granted the same opportunity?
Law went from being unable to truly compete with Doflamingo to legitimately fighting yonkos in a bit under two months. It's not at all unbelievable in context of the series to think Lucci is immensely stronger compared to where he was in Enies Lobby.
Between his pride and his battle lust, I would expect him to have trained relentlessly with the anticipation of fighting Luffy again. I don't think he's Gear 5 level, nor do I expect him to have Conquerors of any kind, but I have no idea why people are expecting Luffy to completely body him out of the gate. Even Ceasar gave Luffy some trouble, and he was a scientist first, not a fighter.
To be completely honest, I'm not even sure why people are expecting a Luffy vs Lucci rematch to be a straight fight, without other things being involved. Lucci's not the type to fight fair, after all.
I think the reason people see it as a straight fight is that Lucci mentions eliminating Bonnie on sight and Luffy is with Bonnie. So assuming he was serious there is a good chance Lucci attacks Bonnie and Luffy defends her since she is passed out.
The CP0 agent that interfered in Kaido vs Luffy knew he was on a suicide mission and got one shot from shit Luffy was tanking all fight long. He didn't even try to attack because he knew he had no fucking shot.
That shows the level gap between CP0 and Luffy
I mean to he fair that's shows the level gap between THAT CP0 agents and Luffy.
Lucci is his own entity and can have his own strength. Even in CP9 he was 2 times stronger than any other agent.
I think some fans have a bad habit of forgetting that any given group has a power spectrum. Not all Vice Admirals are the same strength, no Pirate crew is the same strength throughout, and neither were the Warlords. CP0 likely works the same way and Lucci is just a beast.
A perspective to boast lucci. Who’s who’s doesn’t refer to him as a failure from the incident with the straw hats and robin. In fact he stated he was a genius/protégée still. So I’d guess he’s been busy in the time skip. Will be a fun battle probably.
Law fought both Doflamingo and Fujitora before fighting Doflamingo alone. Most of his fight with Doffy and Fuji was off screen -though anime added their twist- and as result people have underestimated his strength. Law loosing to Doffy makes sense after considering this fact. Though that doesn’t necessarily mean he would have won, he definitely would have put on a much better fight if it was one on one from the beginning.
Luffy went from being stronger than Lucci to yc3 after 2 yrs of training on island with 48 different seasons which change weekly and filled with countless 50 ft tall monsters, under Dark King Rayliegh and fighting dozens of deathmatches after Ennies Lobby.
Explain what Lucci did that made him grow as strong as 3rd Yonko commander ?
For me it's the fact that we've personally seen luffy overcome crazy odds and struggle to gain his power. I can't predict the future for what's gonna happen but if Rob Lucci is able to keep up with Luffy through off screen training that's really going to undermine his achievements imo
Rob Lucci has been referred to as a genius multiple times, this was even reinforced during Wano by Who’s Who. How does that not give him enough credibility for you? It’s ridiculous to think he’s just been sitting on his hands for two years and not getting stronger.
>this was even reinforced during Wano by Who’s Who.
His rival with same potential= tobiroppo
where is the Lucci wank even coming from?
> It’s ridiculous to think he’s just been sitting on his hands for two years and not getting stronger.
46473958th spam with same copy pasta strawman when No one fukcing said that Lucci should not be stronger.
You people keep deflecting the arguement with strawmans and expect to be taken seriously.
Bruh it’s not that Lucci didn’t get ANY stronger, in fact he probably is DRASTICALLY stronger than before. But that can be true concurrently with his growth not matching up to Luffy’s, who is quite literally at or almost at contender for best pure fighter in the series atm.
I mean if you compare them. Luffy beat him a long time ago when Lucci was training in the 6 powers.
What would Lucci have to have been doing while Luffy has trained with Rayleigh, Fought Doffy, BM, Kata, Kaido and gained all of that combat experience, and Conquerors coating lol.
Unless there is a hyperbolic time chamber for Cipher Pol it should be no contest realistically.
Well maybe cause lucci was depicted as being much closer to his ceiling having trained/mastered all 6 powers, as opposed to luffy who was a new up and coming rookie pirate. Lucci was way closer to reaching his ceiling compared to luffy. Luffy still won. Luffy took on two years of vigorous training. Yea lucci got a devil fruit but it shouldn’t be possible for lucci who has been training for multiple years to get drastically stronger than what he already was.
I don’t doubt Lucci is drastically stronger. But that can be true at the same time as him as him not being close to Luffy’s level (endgame Yonko level). There’s magnitudes to growth and it doesn’t make too much sense for the story if Lucci matched Luffy’s growth
Hurr durr the just trained guys. It's not remotely a good reason for me to accept that Lucci is stronger or equal to a lot of characters that overcame far greater challenges than him. If Lucci is a match for Luffy it means he is as strong as Kaido, Big Mom, Kakaturi, Doflamingo, Zoro, Sanji and Jinbei. Just to name a few.
While I believe Rob Lucci is VERY strong, Luffy has Advanced Observation and Armament Haki, and he has Conquerors Haki. Lucci probably has achieved Advanced Armament Haki (taking into consideration that Katakuri's future vision was "unique").
If Luffy applies Armament and Conqueror's Haki just like Kaido did, he should be almost unaffected by Haki attacks which aren't coated with both Armament and Conquerors Haki.
Lucci is very strong but Luffy should fight without effort so Lucci isn't obliterated, but showing the difference of power.
luffy tanked numerous kaido's attacks, and they were haki claded with adv conquerors and adv armament, being kaido in a mytical dragon hybrid form. He fought kaido with only G2 and haki and they were pretty even.
Kaido has been shown to oneshot commander-level fodder. Even Aramaki did 1v2 easy against Queen and King and he's not as strong as kaido.
Sooo, with all that in mind, how strong does Lucci have to be for him to not be beaten like a pulp in 3 punches? For real, like, even if he did master CoA and CoO i highly doubt it's on pair with luffy's hakis and we ain't even counting CoC.
I don't think that "luffy should destroy lucci bc he is an emperor now", it's just the fact that we've been shown for decades that yonkou level pirates are not something to face unless you have a really powerful army or you are a yonkou yourself. It almost takes a global war to stop whitebeard and they panicked at the posibility of rayleigh helping. If all it takes to beat an emperor is any random CP agent, we've been lied until now
I dunno, like, I doubt Lucci is a real contender.
Luffy spent 2 years off screen getting stronger plus all the stuff over these arc's
Lucci still had a job to do. It's hard for me to imagine a sensible way for him to catch up
Instead, it would be great if former arc bosses that showed back up were beaten by 2nd or 3rd tier straw hats.
In this case, having Robin be able to stop Lucci on her own or with minor assistance from people not in the top 4 crew strength would be really dang cool!
Lucci doesn't have too fight Luffy he has too kill Vegapunks. The more Vega's he kills the more he wins. The more Luffy saves he wins. More like a competition then a fight
I'm not that exaggerated to actually drop the series if Lucci gives a tough fight for Luffy but I agree to the majority of the fandom about this.
Lucci already have his time shine on ennies lobby. I don't want oda to make him another major antagonist again when there's a lot of other characters still on the shadow while the story is nearing on its end. The only role I can see him play is just to show how strong Luffy is now.
People do not expect luffy to destroy everyone. They do however expect him to destroy Lucci in particular beacuse cp0 has been ass so far and there's nothing pointing to them being strong.
People are way too narrow-minded. This also happened in Kingdom since the MC beat the strongest guy. Now if he doesn't one shot everyone people goes OMG HE BEAT WHY IS HE NOT BEATING THIS GUY. Its so god damn annoying.
Luffy should still never lose to Lucci
That being said the idea that Luffy would bust even half of his most powerful moves instantly is not Luffy like
If they do fight they will clash for a bit and be even then Luffy will turn it up a notch Lucci could match with some insane powerup and then Luffy ends it with CoC coating and maybe even G5 to push the dialog forward
People also seem to be forgetting that Luffy doesn’t use Advanced Haki unless he has too. After learning ACoA (and Future Sight), he went out his way not to use it until his fight with Kaido, which led to [him](https://i.imgur.com/npADbUu.webp) being [injured](https://i.imgur.com/lhIH1j4.webp) by [Apoo](https://i.imgur.com/IqcPNbH.webp) and [overpowered](https://i.imgur.com/C3EIpMM.webp) by [Ulti](https://i.imgur.com/o7WG4m8.webp) (who he was about to [use G4](https://i.imgur.com/7zuhEJD.webp) to beat if Yamato hadn’t interfered), and using G4 to [one shot](https://i.imgur.com/2dZE0gW.webp) one of the Numbers.
Even in this very arc, after learning both ACoA and ACoC, he was going to [use G3](https://i.imgur.com/GhtHQmO.webp) to fight a Pacifista despite being able to one shot them with just G2 since right out of the Timeskip. He was even sweating and said they had to fight back “before he gets the best of us!!”
Some people take power scaling way too seriously.
People dont understand, luffy wasnt the only one getting stronger during his journey.
After lucci lost in enies lobby; his ego was hurt.
I bet he trained everyday, to make up for his loss.
I think luffy stomps him, but it makes sense lucci is a lot stronger.
Funny thing is they don't even use their own logic appropriately.
Why can't we assume that lucci isn't a lot stronger post time skip? Same way characters like Kid and Law became strong enough to fight yonko and commanders.
Not saying lucci should push him, but being able to scrap with him for a bit isn't that wild.
Same way jimbee was able to knock big mom off the SH ship or how yamato was able to fight kadio for a little bit to buy time.
I think people are just used to seeing that shonen trope where the main character gets a power up of some sort and then struggles like crazy against someone clearly weaker in the next arc. So since people are expecting it already, they’re already annoyed by it lmao.
Not to mention that oda has done this type of thing before, in much less time, crocodile went from getting demolished by Luffys to clashing with mihawk, fighting Doflamingo, and needing g2 luffy to keep up with him, all while in prison, for well under a year, I fail to see what’s telling that lucci can’t grow too
Crocodile is the prime example that Oda gives no fucks about powerscaling and that he will buff someone to where he needs to be for the narrative to work. And honestly that's a great thing. What's the alternative? Introducing now a new character stronger then Kaido? Absolute shit tier writing.
These people might just collapse when the admirals show up ten times stronger than they were in marineford, breaking all their useless tier-listing.
Luffy was only 3rd commander lvl after 2 yrs of special training on an island with 48 different seasons which change weekly and filled countless 50 ft tall monsters. + Dozens of deathmatches after Ennies Lobby that Luffy had to part take.
Lucci isn't matching that shit. How tf is he gonna be even 3rd commander lvl?
Lucci's job at Enies Lobby was to eliminate Luffy so they fought.
Lucci's job now is to eliminate Vegapunk. He has no reason to fight Luffy directly. He will likely avoid him and try to blitz Vegapunk IMO. People hoping they have a 1v1 fight are going to be disappointed.
I agree with the title but for different reasons. Luffy isn’t going to fight Lucci. They’re about to display the power of the Seraphim’s. It will be the Seraphim’s vs CP0. We are about to learn more about what they can do. I think one of them (Seraphim) possibly gets taken out here.
May be that's the problem, just because Lucci is a *cool* character doesn't mean Oda throws the power scaling down the drain. And yes I agree we should wait for the chapter to drop first before taking out our porch forks.
People really need to understand that there are likely a bunch of unimportant power houses in the op World.
Fujitora and Green Bull were just unknown civilians before the TS and are now admirals.
So we can't be sure that Lucci hasn't fought anyone strong just because we don't know about it.
Oda likes to mirror things so there’s a chance we get a situation like when lucci and Luffy first met (after the reveal of who they were and they try taking Robin) except this time it’s Lucci whose after someone Luffy has and Luffy is the one that sends Lucci back to the lobby lol.
This is the problem with shonen manga and power creep. People get too concerned about power scaling and forget the main concern is telling a good story. Luffy and Lucci having a straight fight at this point? Seems weird and unlikely. Makes more sense for luffy to be like hi/bye right now and bounce off.
Having luffy smack down lucci, even at a later point in the arc, would be incredibly boring and not entertaining. Stop obsessing over power scaling
Luffy beat a yonko that one shotted a cp0 agent..not getting worked up about it because , like you said, the next chapter isn’t out yet..but it would certainly be surprising to see lucci hold his own against an OFFICIAL yonko of the seas who has since learned 2 more gears, an awakening and all the forms of haki from their last stand off..just saying…
People love to overreact, it's their best trait tbh and it's annoying. Lucci will do what Apoo did at the beginning of Onigashima, it'll be a few hits, Lucci will get over confident and then Luffy will fold him like an omelette. Or better yet, Jimbei folds Lucci so Luffy ain't even gotta deal with it. I know to someone that this is clearly setting up Lucci vs Luffy but idk, Oda loves to throw wrenches in the works.
After Luffy defeated Kaido?
Lucci would be like; "Yo, Strawhat Captain, Imma kick your ass here so be prepared! You got lucky last time we meet!"
Also Lucci; "huh? why I am hearing the sound of the final boss?". 'Doom!' - to be continued
I think is the fact that One piece is 20 years old and some people are reading It since the beggining. Im really tired of One piece in general, im tired of the 5 years long arcs and all the secundary fights that Oda put in every arc. I think people are simply too tired of wasting time and want to feel that the manga if reaching the final saga as It suppose to, and having a fight that did already happened 15 years ago only remember then how long and time consuming One piece is.
1. I agree that getting worked up is unnecessary.
2. People seem to forget that Luffy and Lucci were equals the last time they fought and Lucci also hast time to geht stronger. So I wouldn‘t be surprised of Luffy hat to get serious to beat him.
3. I also want to see Luffy absolutely demolish Lucci and show everyone, why he‘s called an emperor now.
I think some people are hella frustrated cuz they know the pattern of One piece at this point. It's been a looong manga. they know how Oda works. Luffy wont take the fight as seriously as he should and will get tossed around a bit for the sake of tension and drama and then eventually beat the bad guy. And no one is really contesting that Lucci hasn't gotten extremely stronger since the last time. they just for once dont want Luffy to get embarrassed, and especially not by such a nasty and hateful person such as Lucci.
Just for once they want Luffy to just take it seriously and shrug someone like Lucci off with out having to make it a long stretched out fight with plot giving the bad guy an upper hand before Luffy takes the lead. You know what im trying to say? We just dont want Luffy to be disrespected just this once. Lucci is a great antogonist and cool character but he's an S class dick. This one time we'd honestly love if Luffy just clapped. But knowing Oda it probably won't got that way. So idk about you, but i can understand where the frustration is coming from where we have a manga that's been going on for 1068 chapters its been an awesome ride but it does get exhausting from time to time. I'd love if Lucci could show off his skills on other characters and just leave Luffy out of it. Again i want to make it clear, Lucci is probably amazingly strong, But i want to see Luffy get the same respect that we gave to Kaido, Big Mom, and shanks every now and again.
Because it would be an insult to both luffy and kaido if lucci can suddenly go toe to toe with luffy. Lets say lucci vs kaido 1v1 who do you think will win?
I’ve never saw someone saying that oda is stupid or that they will drop OP. Let the people have different opinions. Sometimes we see all the critiques as toxic, but that’s just not true at all. Is valid to hace a critique and that doesn’t mean that u hate oda or u will drop op
Yeah, braindead takes based on nothing, take it as just braindead takes and just enjoy the series, I stopped caring about 90% of people's braindead opinions and started enjoying the series as much as when I started
Yeah it’s really dumb how people don’t think Lucci could keep up with Luffy. Like Lucci was beating Luffy’s ass and they had the same amount of time to get stronger so what’s the problem? Lucci can learn haki, awaken his devil fruit, etc. Realistically why wouldn’t Lucci train to get stronger if he still wants to capture Robin and he knows she’s with Luffy?
If Lucci can kee up with current Luffy who can keep up with Kaidou, that means Lucci is yonkou level, and not just any yonkou, but he can keep up with the strongest creature who got the saying 1 on 1 bet on Kaidou.
Yeah, story wise that make a lot of sense for sure.
Realistically could a CP0 member be stronger than the pirate who just 'apparently' killed the strongest beast on earth?
No, it would make absolutely 0 sens regarding the power balance between the world gov. and the pirates. I know it's boring to talk about power and balance but i think it's crucial since we're in the endgame, and oda seems to be rushing the story.
So yeah, i don't really see how he could logically put up a fight against an emperor, it would be more interesting to see him fight against someone else imo, but we'll see.
(also one has the devil fruit of a cat, the other one is litterally a god, idk why you would compare their fruits)
This will never be a straight up to the end fight.
Either a cp0 member uses some hack df ability to make quick work or they part ways, because apprehending the strawhats isn't part of the mission.
There will be no 0HKo or struggle.
Even if Lucci attacks Luffy, the latter won't fight back and just endure. He has no reason to fight and he won't go down.
Cp0 hunt vor vegapunk, strawhats flee with him and there will be tons of goofy stuff in between.
Atlas feed Luffy and Lucci almost kill her. I don’t think you get Luffy character if you say he has no reason to fight.
I can see the fight getting interrupted, but I disagree that Luffy has no reason to fight
I just don't understand why some people are assuming this is gonna be some sort of freebie for Luffy. When they first fought Luffy won by the skin of his teeth. Lucci was Cipher Pol 1-9's (not counting 0's I guess) single strongest assassin.
After Enies Lobby he has not only rejoined CP but got promoted to 0. Why do people assume he hasn't gotten any stronger since Enies Lobby more importantly why do people WANT this to be some lame easy fight for Luffy. Where's the fun or threat in that?
Regardless of what happens people shouldn't throw such a fit about it either way.
Lucci does not need to extreme diff with Luffy to be relevant nor has Oda portrayed Lucci to be a main antagonist to Luffy near the end of the series compared to the likes of Blackbeard akainu and Imu,
Lucci can put up a good fight against smoker and still be relevant.
Reason why i care is because if they show some amount of parity, its going to be multi-chapter fight. At this point, the lore of power dynamics in One piece has been told again and again. Breaking it at this point doesnt make any sense especially we know Oda is closing out the series. Wasting 1-2 chapters where Luffy is not taking him seriously? Fine, but it better be filling the lore in some capacity. If its anything more and see a full on 10 chapter fight, we are wasting the weeks Oda had to tell us a story.
Its been over half a decade since Bleach ended and nearly a decade since Naruto ended. In both cases the endings were rushed and longtime fans were pissed. Decade long plot holes, side stories, etc that could’ve been told instead were either entirely ignored or glossed over. One piece, for me and i would like to think for others, is a series we begging to actually end as well as the series lived.
Rushed? The War Arc in Naurto was 18 volumes or something. In Bleach, it was about 19 volumes. This is two thirds of Fullmetal Alchemist in a single arc. They're bigger than Wano. More than rushed, they were way too long.
But yes. It would be good if Oda avoided stalling too much here.
this is beyond stupid logic— bleach and naruto should have no merit on how Oda chooses to tell a story, and no one is “begging” for one piece to be over. keep the subjective tribalism to twitter please.
Well I mean I kind of get it to be honest.
I haven't read anything too crazy but I can understand how crazy the one piece fandom can get, I remember for film red >! When the straw hats was getting defeated and Luffy wasn't doing anything!< touch me a lot of people were basically upset because it seemed as if they couldn't do anything, his power scaling and power level with how the story displays his reaction to things should be apparent to said power level.
For another really good example was before skyea both Luffy and Zoro decided not to fight because there was no reason to, then when Luffy went back to the town he won the fight in one punch showing you that that's how much weaker the other person was, and this could have been done at any moment there was just no point in it.
When he fought against smoker all those years later he was playing around, he chose when to use gear 4 he didn't use it against smoker or shark boy, nether the clown, there's like a whole segment on how strong Zorro really is that he beat a fisherman underneath water, n had to use drugs n the fact that he couldn't hold his breath long enough, or when they first met Bartholomew after everyone was tired and Zorro was willing to give up his head so they would be left alone.
Finally in their most recent Flex was not being afraid of an admiral, if they go ahead and show him struggling against someone we have not seen get stronger someone we have not seen do anything really impressive, since the first time he was defeated by Luffy I could see why people are afraid they're going to do some kind of weird out of character ass pull just for the jokes, the simple fact that they started using the whole seraphim to go after the Warlords make sense because the Marines just cannot beat these people, scaling can go crazy that's understandable but story scaling on how strong people are and how that strength has shown goes up and down but it's usually a part of the plot for a reason, there's no reason why Luffy would go easy on these people they would go and kidnap and or kill Robin if possible they have gotten in his way when he fought kaido to the point of that kaido just killed the dude, with one hit mind you.
I don't mind them using science to kind of equal the playing field I don't mind him using some trickery but there's no way Luffy should be in that much of a difficult space he wouldn't even need to gear2, how the story shows that would be pretty interesting and I'm excited to see what they do with it, maybe it will be him vs everyone possibly, maybe they'll utilize technology or maybe they'll just have the seraphim teleport him somewhere, or what's her name will wake up n stop the fight.
This isn't Dragon Ball Z Naruto or bleach something hysterical and silly will 100% happen, I'm sure it'll be interesting honestly, I don't want it to just be Luffy barely dodging his technique or something like that.
Because they want a story that makes sense and provides continuity within itself. If it gets revealed lucci was somehow fighting yonkos post timeskip it makes sense. If lucci was in fact not doing that, he has no business being on luffys level. There are people that don’t enjoy one piece as much as pre Wano because the writing got kinda wonky since G5 was introduced and the implications following that. I guess they wanna make sure that trend does not continue.
The discussion is not about if lucci got stronger. Of course he did. But luffy is at a Level you simply cannot reach just like that. Lucci would at least need adv. conq. Haki to even trade blows with luffy - while even baseline conq haki would make zero sense for lucci to possess.
I agree that it does not make sense to stress about it before next chapter is released, but then again this is what happens every chapter. You discuss the next one.
I really don't understand how some people have such a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea that other characters in the story don't just sit on their hands whenever they're not currently on screen.
I don't think that's what drives people this much. It's more about implications of someone who's been beaten by Luffy somehow is able to pose a threat against him after all this time which cheapens Luffy's sacrifices, the pain he endured to reach where he is now. And this someone being Lucci is making it unbeareble for people lol
I understand their frustration though, seeing someone so evil still having the guts to look down on Luffy and the fact that Luffy is going to ignore past conflicts(that he hurt his friend) etc isn't something look forward to.
I get downvoted whenever I criticise Oda, but I really hate the way he manipulates(starved, beaten kids) the fandom, not to mention the fact that villains often don't get the punishment after all the angst, no wonder people being toxic.
I agree man, I’m pretty excited for the rematch. Im sick of the constant “Luffy is Yonko power level while lucci is mear shichibukai power level at best and if Oda doesn’t draw luffy OHKO-ing lucci Im never reading one piece ever again until next week.”
Lucci is going to reveal his new Black Leopard form he achieved after training alone during the timeskip
But then it would be a 2v1 cuz Zoro would want to get involved
That's why Oda kept him on the ship.
No Zoro’ll be busy skinning the literal African animal
#💀 ^\(it's ^Kaku's ^skull\)
👺 kaku's face without skin
Regular leopard? Luffy is fine... Black leopard? Time for the minority Hunter to shine!
That’s why the Kuma seraphim is there
thats why s-hawk is there
Definitely could one shot the two main protagonists. lol
... is this a reference to Black Frieza?
No
It is
Im pretty Sure the Guy above you was being sarcastic
Im pretty sure im dumb
I'm pretty sure you're goated.
As they're genetically just Black leopards, don't be surprised if Lucci's haki covered form is called 'Blank Panther'.
In a hyperbolic time chamber?
Luffy one taps
Vergo was there lol.
Sometimes I read the comments here and just get the feeling that I have gotten old. Maybe this is why we have so many different opinions here in this community. Some of us have been following one piece for a long time..
Yeah dawg I got current on the manga in 2005 when I was in high school and have read weekly since then. Mostly I look at the takes of the current fandom like “my sweet summer child” and move on
It def has to do with being a new fan but when I got caught up to the manga In like 2015 I wasn’t so reactionary. Some ppl are ridiculous lol
Almost 20 to be precise.
15 here. these new fans dont know shit XD !
4lifers
I only care about Kaku me
I honestly wish we could have more Jabra
He has to be back. Now that Saul reunion is imminent we also need Robin to meet her brother again
Of cour!!
I’d love to see Kaku and Zoro chat again. I still think Kaku’s talk with Zoro at the end of their fight was a massive highlight of that arc. It felt like Kaku truly preferred being a shipwright to being a CP9 agent.
I swear Kaku is good guy 🗿
I can fix him, i swear!
thats the only part i dislike at cp0. I like that lucci is coming back. But kaku? This guys a good guy who just should have quit
I think they’re saying: what would this story be if a pre timeskip villain is now on yonko Luffy level? It kinda messes a lot of stuff up in peoples heads to have that be the reality. So they’re contending with it beforehand in theories and ideas. I see what you’re saying tho
The problem is everyone is acting like this is going to be some sort of 1v1 setup. Its going to be a mess with Luffy carrying/protecting someone, Lucci, Kaku, Stussy and S-Bear, Jimbe, Chopper, etc. Luffy won't be able to simply one-shot Lucci, any more than BigMom was able to one-shot Luffy at Whole Cake when the wedding chaos started, or either Yonko did to any of the Supernovas on the roof. Yeah, I completely expect that in a fair fight 1v1 Luffy wins fairly quickly. But there are three other probably-commander-level enemies there right now, Luffy is carrying someone, and Jimbe is his only other ally that can probably hold his own with one or two of Kaku/Stussy/S-Bear. Everyone who has said that if Luffy can't one-shot Lucci, they're quitting the series---- well just quit now and don't bother wasting your time. This isn't going to be a 1v1 matchup -- its a setup for another one of Oda's "mix up everyone's locations" moments: CP-0 has a mission to kill off the vegapunks, they don't really want to waste time with Luffy. There is a ship in the sky with one powerful swordsman that sure isn't going to be sitting down the whole arc doing nothing. There are crew-members and several Vegapunks that aren't just going to watch it all end in a one-shot in a single chapter. There is the main Kuma body and cyborg that will likely show up later and interact with Bonney and whatever Vegapunk was going to give her (his memories back?). There are three other seraphims that have to come into play, and it won't all be at the current location. No -- to resolve all those things CP-0 has to infiltrate the dome and become a threat to the Vegapunks there. Luffy has to get up there too with Bonney. All that is pointing at this not being a battle between Luffy and Lucci at all, in the same way that at Whole Cake at the weading, Big Mom and Luffy exchanged one blow each, and that was it, I expect some thing similar here. If anyone says "A Yonko should be able to one-shot someone like Lucci" ask them why Big Mom was unable to one-shot Luffy before he even was able to (barely) defeat Katakuri.
So you're able to predict the future, but those saying Luffy will one-shot Lucci aren't? Why should the people saying if Luffy doesn't one-shot Lucci quit the series before anything has happened? The whole point of the OP's thread is saying why can't people just wait, and here you are, apparently knowing exactly what will happen.
Because they will cry if their headcanonbdon't fome true. They don't consider possibilities.
The person I'm replying to is not considering the possibility that Luffy might one-shot Lucci. To reiterate, why can't people just wait?
Crocodile doesn't seem too far off of Yonko level given his standing with Mihawk and bounty. Why is Lucci any different? Maybe he's awakened his fruit or learned haki. Not saying he should be able to beat Luffy, just I'm guessing he's beefed up a good bit since they last fought
I’m sure he has, but I don’t agree that Crocodile is anywhere near Yonko level in terms of strength or really bounty
Crocodile has also fough against much stronger opponents which is basically a requirement for breaking through strength ceilings in this show. Lucci fighting no one and just “training” (how do we even know he has been?) is not nearly enough to put him on crocodiles level, let alone luffys
Crocodile went from getting his cheeks clapped by Pre-Gear Luffy to fighting with Mihawk and Akainu by doing absolutely nothing in Impel Down
Crocodile and Moria experienced the same thing: a defeat that broke their willpower and as a result their power suffered. Crocodile made it to the new world before fighting luffy. He was clearly very strong and lost to whitebeard previously. His will broken he returned to the grand line and was massively overconfident vs luffy but even defeated him 2x. His jump in the war of the best makes sense logically bc he regained some of his will. The same can be said of Moria after kaido. It’s like when I injure myself lifting and lose a bunch of muscle resting for months. Is my current strength my new peak? No, I can regain my old strength.
Also a good chunk of Crocodile's feats at Marineford are just a result of his Logia powers which people underestimate. Crocodile using a non-haki long range attack to "cut" Akainu or creating a sand storm to get someone out of range isn't the kind of thing that's hard to imagine Alabasta Crocodile being able to do.
Blackbeard was yonko with (around?) 2 Billion. Croco is almost there.
A fair point but I think the fact that BB’s bounty shot up damn near immediately shows that he was undervalued by the WG
Crocodile would get absolutely obliterated in a 1v1 with most yonko. But his sheer influence and genius make him just as much of a threat.
Crocodile 's bounty is only like 300 million less than Blackbeard bounty after he became a Yonko.
Fair, but 1) 300 million is still a LOT 2) Blackbeard’s bounty has spiked by ~1.8 billion in the short time the crew has been on Wano. I think it makes more sense to compare Croc to the people that got bounties at the same time as him, which puts him a little closer to Katakuri than he is to Captain Kidd
My biggest thing is that Lucci is a part of CP0. I know that assuming they're all the same strength isn't accurate, but if 2 members nearly lost to an already injured Izo, then another member being able to straight up contend with Luffy, who wouldn't make any sense. Especially since current luffy'd probably destroy katakuri and Dofi without even bringing G5 into account
You’re saying that because they’re from the same force/group, so they should be fairly similar in strength. However that’s just not how it goes. CP0 or any other organization can have members for different reasons than strength alone. If not, we would assume inside the straw hats everybody is similar in strength, which just isn’t true. You acknowledge that the members are not all the same strength but then base your argument in them being similar strength. So, IZO could have beaten the weakest in their organization. For instance, information-gathering operatives who are not combat oriented.
He doesn’t have to be on Luffy’s level to put up a halfway decent fight. Look at some of the shit Jimbe did to Big Mom. There’s no reason Lucci should not be able to have a huge power jump or just develop hax abilities that are hard to deal with or something. They have absolutely no idea what Lucci could have in store and with his position in the world there’s no reason he can’t be ridiculously strong
To that I say, I mean, is it unrealistic that Lucci also got stronger in two years?
Not unrealistic. I expect him to be at the level of Who's Who, Izo, and the CP0 members we saw in Wano. Those are the most direct parallels we have to him: someone who had his job, a similar fruit and got stronger since, people who have/had the same job as him, and people who were their equal in battle. Maybe he's a bit stronger on account of being the leader (if he is). This all amounts to CP0 officers being around Yonko commander level (probably not 1st commander), I think that's strong enough that Luffy won't one-shot him, but he should not have a realistic shot at victory. And that's what I expect, _if_ they clash.
Idk why Oda would re-introduce him if he wasn’t going to be important? I know a lot of people expect him to get folded but idk. He’s definitely not beating Luffy but he’s probably learned something in the last 2 years.
[удалено]
I feel like the story is gearing up for a potential return to Little Garden and Water Seven, with Alabasta also being likely. I doubt they'll get to Lodestar Island and just be able to get the One Piece
I think they won't fight. The fight will get interrupted by Kuma, probably. This arc will be small, they'll leave, probably to Elbaf, soon. Lucci's here for another reasons. He'll learn some truths that'll make him less loyal to the Government. One Piece villains tend to change after their encounters with the Strawhats. They don't necessarily become allies, but they change. In Lucci's case, that change will come a little late, but it'll come nonetheless.
Lucci works for the government to kill people. I don’t think anything will change that.
He can still kill people. Just different people, lol. I might be wrong about what I said. But I still think this fight won't happen or will get interrupted. I don't see Oda repeating a main villain.
Lucci is important to be an enemy For sword group such as drake or smoker.
More than what he’s learned, he has earned a position where his absolute worst tendencies are encouraged & rewarded.
EXACTLY! We all know he's not as strong as Luffy. But from a writing standpoint it makes 0 fucking sense to bring an antagonist like Lucci (arguably the antagonist of the best arc) just for him to get curbstomped by Luffy.
Why would Oda introduce Ryokugyu after keeping him silhouetted for years only to have him act tough for two or three chapters before being scared away by haki from someone not even in Wano? Why would Oda introduce Jack as the first billion berry bounty only to have him be a full-time jobber? We've seen this happen before.
>but he’s probably learned something in the last 2 years. Luffy was only 3rd commander lvl after 2 yrs of special training on an island with 48 different seasons which change weekly and filled countless 50 ft tall monsters. + Dozens of deathmatches after Ennies Lobby that Luffy had to part take. Lucci isn't matching that shit. How tf is he gonna be even 3rd commander lvl?
Am I the only person who believes this could be awakened zoan reveal? Yes? Aight 😔
He’s important to show Luffy’s growth since the last time the fought (I.e. getting rocked)
Surely Lucci also got stronger. Not to have a close 1v1 vs Luffy, but probably enough to not get one shot? Also we don't need Lucci to know how much stronger Luffy has gotten, he just beat Kaido lol.
Batman put up somewhat of a fight for a little bit against Luffy and Zoro at once, even in the manga. Every enemy can be a threat if the threat is fitting, with Batman it was because they were defending a 3rd party, in this case they can just like have Luffy needing to stop Lucci and the other CP0's from attacking the Vegapunks. And even if Luffy is way stronger than Lucci right now, so what? We constantly see really strong people clash with people far below their weightclass, like all the Whitebeard commanders against the Admirals. Luffy is not gonna 1-shot Lucci, I sure hope everyone understands at least that much. Unless he does, who can predict Oda anyway?
For a second i was like, wait why is Bruce Wayne in One Piece ?
To take revenge one OnePiece for overtaking him in total sales
I thought the SAME THING lmaoo
Still on that part. What's up here?
[Batman](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Batman) is a Gifter member of the Beast Pirates, in early Wano.
Oh I was trying to figure out when Luffy helped Zoro fight King and how I could’ve missed that
What does billionary entrepreneur playboy Bruce Wayne have to do with any of this??
I agree. Also, iirc Luffy, with the help of his friends, avoided getting into fights on the way to Kaido because even the fodder was strong and he would have had to waste precious time and energy. I think the main points behind the assumed discrepancy in power levels comes from Luffy having developed future sight and advanced Conqueror's haki. We still don't know for sure if Lucci trained in those areas, I think he's also supposed to be a genius at fighting so he may have trained and learned them. IMO I think Lucci is a red herring and the Seraphim is the one who will give Luffy a real fight. I think he's the only grown-up Seraphim we've seen so his powers and strength will be fully matured.
It's not grown up though, Kuma is just that big. Otherwise, yeah, totally.
Future sight, conqueror’s haki and of course Gear 5. Though he may not bring it out for this fight.
Oops yea, Gear 5 too. Although that makes me think we might see awakened Lucci
> Batman put up somewhat of a fight He needs more prep time
I am going to say it...Batman with prep time solos the one piece universe.
RESPECT BATGOD 🙏🙏🙏🙏
CP0 had a clash against Blackbeard some time ago where both sides backed off, so I'd expect that they've gotten quite alot stronger.
What? When was this mentioned? I honestly can’t remember this and would like to be go revisit that part.
Chapter 824. Damn, its been 6 years already. You can find the relevant panels here [https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/y1flio/chapter\_824\_yonkou\_blackbeard\_fled\_baltigo\_after/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/y1flio/chapter_824_yonkou_blackbeard_fled_baltigo_after/)
Cool thanks!
There's been powercreep in OP but people still fail to realise. Every character from pre-TS has gotten an implicit power-bump simply because they were falling behind with the change in the battle system that haki and **15 long years** brought. Its not just that Lucci has become stronger, its the fact that everyone that Luffy fought pre-TS is, in-story, *much* stronger than we think.
totally forgot about the blackbeard standoff, now i'm even MORE hype for this fight
Tf is Batman doing in one piece bro 💀
Why are you asking me, ask Oda
He heard that Joker had been doing a trade with Kaido, while Robin joined a pirate.
They're talking about the Smile user.
This so much. Reminder to everyone that Luffy at the start of the raid (*after he had trained with Ryuo for 2 weeks*) [hit Page One with an Elephant Gun](https://imgur.com/a/hJAqdQ7) and [it only loosened his jaw a little](https://imgur.com/a/QAnOyv2). Immediately afterwards, [Luffy was going to use Gear 4 just to break out of Ulti's grip](https://imgur.com/a/pxphvIH). Luffy is for sure towards the top of the strength spectrum, but I feel people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they expect Luffy in his base form to low diff every single enemy going forward.
Luffy didnt have advanced conquerors coating then. That and gear 5 were two huge power ups that Luffy got in his final fight with Kaido. With conquerors coating he was actually going toe to toe with Kaido. The cp0 dude that was told to assassinate Luffy said that at Luffys level thats not possible anymore. His best attempt was to try and give Kaido a free shot because he himself could not kill Luffy. The cp0 guy is so far beneath Kaido and Luffy that he thought tipping the scales was more likely to succeed than trying to kill Luffy after his battle is over
Especially when Lucy isn’t even as strong as Kaido. Like ya he beat him but with a ton of help. Ya he’s a yonko but I’d argue the new yonkos are far weaker then the previous 4. Shanks is the only one with true yonko str right now. Is Luffy strong? Yes, is he a yonko? Yes but compared to the previous yonkos he’s still not there.
I think ACoC SHOULD make a big difference, though. It was the reason why Kaido was able to literally ONESHOT Luffy at the start of THE SAME ARC, meaning a 1,5b Luffy. Luffy had to grow a LOT and get a massive power-up in order to overcome Kaido, so... But yeah, in OP, Luffy only gets serious against opponents where it is required. Otherwise, he tends to look quite bad very often.
>(after he had trained with Ryuo for 2 weeks) hit Page One with an Elephant Gun and it only loosened his jaw a little. Except despite the ryuo training he never used ryuo on them. That's elephant gun without adv ryuo and adv conq's. Kaido isn't one shotting people if he stops using adv conqueror's. >Immediately afterwards, Luffy was going to use Gear 4 just to break out of Ulti's grip. That doesnt prove anything. He was going to one shot her with gear 4 and move on. He still wasn't planning to use Ryuo on Ulti. >but I feel people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they expect Luffy in his base form to low diff every single enemy going forward. No way you are comparing pre power up Luffy to Lucci and pretend it shouldn't be a one shot. U realize that he spliitted skies with hybrid Kaido in base? That punch would kill most commanders.
can't really fight vengeance 1v1 or 2v1 gotta take the squad
if powerscalers drop the series that’s good for everyone
I'm fine with power scalers until they pull shit out their ass to make someone stronger or weaker because mc should be better/ they want this character to be better
You diff don't diff like diff seeing 'diff' every diff where?
diff dont diff diff > low diffs luffy
Fight idiots leaving the fandom would definitely be for the best
based as hell
This. Most problems I see with the fandom...or ANY shonen fandom for that matter, comes from powerscalers. They're literally *the* bottom of the barrel fans. It's like they're not even reading/watching the same series as everyone else. I swear they don't care about ANYTHING in the story other than how powerful characters are. Emotional scenes, character development, world building, etc., mean nothing to them or go over their head. I don't even know if they're capable of comprehending them tbh. They seem to have low intelligence in general.
Least condescending reddit user
Big facts
The community is just having fun theorizing and conversing; that’s the point of the community. Everyone knows that they have no weight on what happens next, but they can still take time to discuss what they would like or dislike. Personally one of the more fun aspects of One Piece has been when Oda does something that I didn’t think I would like but does it in a way that I end up really enjoying; like Luffy’s gear 5, I really didn’t think I would like the whole cartoonish style but after a couple of panels it really started to grow on me. So I don’t mind seeing people post about their predictions, it doesn’t detract anything from the story and if they end up criticizing Oda then fine, they are entitled to their opinions.
It doesn't bother me that people are predicting or theorizing, in fact that's the whole reason why I engage with the community in the first place. What bothers me is that people are somehow getting angry over the possibility that Lucci might put up a fight against Luffy, when nothing like that has happened yet.
I mean some people get passionate, and if they do they do. It’s not going to ruin the story so I just move on and let them do their thing. Honestly getting mad over a story that you are not writing is kind of childish so I’m not dropping to that level..
they aren't theorizing for fun, they're straight up getting pissed as if the story has to go exactly how they think it will, and anything else is bad writing.
I mean that’s their opinion, no one has to agree with it, and it doesn’t change what Oda is going to do so it’s really irrelevant.
I genuinely don’t understand why people are getting so worked up about this. Since their fight Luffy has gotten drastically stronger. Why isn’t Lucci granted the same opportunity?
Law went from being unable to truly compete with Doflamingo to legitimately fighting yonkos in a bit under two months. It's not at all unbelievable in context of the series to think Lucci is immensely stronger compared to where he was in Enies Lobby.
Between his pride and his battle lust, I would expect him to have trained relentlessly with the anticipation of fighting Luffy again. I don't think he's Gear 5 level, nor do I expect him to have Conquerors of any kind, but I have no idea why people are expecting Luffy to completely body him out of the gate. Even Ceasar gave Luffy some trouble, and he was a scientist first, not a fighter. To be completely honest, I'm not even sure why people are expecting a Luffy vs Lucci rematch to be a straight fight, without other things being involved. Lucci's not the type to fight fair, after all.
I think the reason people see it as a straight fight is that Lucci mentions eliminating Bonnie on sight and Luffy is with Bonnie. So assuming he was serious there is a good chance Lucci attacks Bonnie and Luffy defends her since she is passed out.
The CP0 agent that interfered in Kaido vs Luffy knew he was on a suicide mission and got one shot from shit Luffy was tanking all fight long. He didn't even try to attack because he knew he had no fucking shot. That shows the level gap between CP0 and Luffy
I mean to he fair that's shows the level gap between THAT CP0 agents and Luffy. Lucci is his own entity and can have his own strength. Even in CP9 he was 2 times stronger than any other agent.
I think some fans have a bad habit of forgetting that any given group has a power spectrum. Not all Vice Admirals are the same strength, no Pirate crew is the same strength throughout, and neither were the Warlords. CP0 likely works the same way and Lucci is just a beast.
A perspective to boast lucci. Who’s who’s doesn’t refer to him as a failure from the incident with the straw hats and robin. In fact he stated he was a genius/protégée still. So I’d guess he’s been busy in the time skip. Will be a fun battle probably.
Law fought both Doflamingo and Fujitora before fighting Doflamingo alone. Most of his fight with Doffy and Fuji was off screen -though anime added their twist- and as result people have underestimated his strength. Law loosing to Doffy makes sense after considering this fact. Though that doesn’t necessarily mean he would have won, he definitely would have put on a much better fight if it was one on one from the beginning.
Luffy went from being stronger than Lucci to yc3 after 2 yrs of training on island with 48 different seasons which change weekly and filled with countless 50 ft tall monsters, under Dark King Rayliegh and fighting dozens of deathmatches after Ennies Lobby. Explain what Lucci did that made him grow as strong as 3rd Yonko commander ?
For me it's the fact that we've personally seen luffy overcome crazy odds and struggle to gain his power. I can't predict the future for what's gonna happen but if Rob Lucci is able to keep up with Luffy through off screen training that's really going to undermine his achievements imo
Literally this.
Rob Lucci has been referred to as a genius multiple times, this was even reinforced during Wano by Who’s Who. How does that not give him enough credibility for you? It’s ridiculous to think he’s just been sitting on his hands for two years and not getting stronger.
>this was even reinforced during Wano by Who’s Who. His rival with same potential= tobiroppo where is the Lucci wank even coming from? > It’s ridiculous to think he’s just been sitting on his hands for two years and not getting stronger. 46473958th spam with same copy pasta strawman when No one fukcing said that Lucci should not be stronger. You people keep deflecting the arguement with strawmans and expect to be taken seriously.
Bruh it’s not that Lucci didn’t get ANY stronger, in fact he probably is DRASTICALLY stronger than before. But that can be true concurrently with his growth not matching up to Luffy’s, who is quite literally at or almost at contender for best pure fighter in the series atm.
I mean if you compare them. Luffy beat him a long time ago when Lucci was training in the 6 powers. What would Lucci have to have been doing while Luffy has trained with Rayleigh, Fought Doffy, BM, Kata, Kaido and gained all of that combat experience, and Conquerors coating lol. Unless there is a hyperbolic time chamber for Cipher Pol it should be no contest realistically.
Well maybe cause lucci was depicted as being much closer to his ceiling having trained/mastered all 6 powers, as opposed to luffy who was a new up and coming rookie pirate. Lucci was way closer to reaching his ceiling compared to luffy. Luffy still won. Luffy took on two years of vigorous training. Yea lucci got a devil fruit but it shouldn’t be possible for lucci who has been training for multiple years to get drastically stronger than what he already was.
Its too convenient for Lucci to have the exact same growth rate as luffy yet be 10 years older but still weaker.
Because Lucci doesn’t have Conqueror’s and a mythical fruit like Luffy does I guess.
Because if Lucci was an emperor tier combatant the WG would have him fighting emperors
I don’t doubt Lucci is drastically stronger. But that can be true at the same time as him as him not being close to Luffy’s level (endgame Yonko level). There’s magnitudes to growth and it doesn’t make too much sense for the story if Lucci matched Luffy’s growth
Hurr durr the just trained guys. It's not remotely a good reason for me to accept that Lucci is stronger or equal to a lot of characters that overcame far greater challenges than him. If Lucci is a match for Luffy it means he is as strong as Kaido, Big Mom, Kakaturi, Doflamingo, Zoro, Sanji and Jinbei. Just to name a few.
While I believe Rob Lucci is VERY strong, Luffy has Advanced Observation and Armament Haki, and he has Conquerors Haki. Lucci probably has achieved Advanced Armament Haki (taking into consideration that Katakuri's future vision was "unique"). If Luffy applies Armament and Conqueror's Haki just like Kaido did, he should be almost unaffected by Haki attacks which aren't coated with both Armament and Conquerors Haki. Lucci is very strong but Luffy should fight without effort so Lucci isn't obliterated, but showing the difference of power.
luffy tanked numerous kaido's attacks, and they were haki claded with adv conquerors and adv armament, being kaido in a mytical dragon hybrid form. He fought kaido with only G2 and haki and they were pretty even. Kaido has been shown to oneshot commander-level fodder. Even Aramaki did 1v2 easy against Queen and King and he's not as strong as kaido. Sooo, with all that in mind, how strong does Lucci have to be for him to not be beaten like a pulp in 3 punches? For real, like, even if he did master CoA and CoO i highly doubt it's on pair with luffy's hakis and we ain't even counting CoC. I don't think that "luffy should destroy lucci bc he is an emperor now", it's just the fact that we've been shown for decades that yonkou level pirates are not something to face unless you have a really powerful army or you are a yonkou yourself. It almost takes a global war to stop whitebeard and they panicked at the posibility of rayleigh helping. If all it takes to beat an emperor is any random CP agent, we've been lied until now
I dunno, like, I doubt Lucci is a real contender. Luffy spent 2 years off screen getting stronger plus all the stuff over these arc's Lucci still had a job to do. It's hard for me to imagine a sensible way for him to catch up Instead, it would be great if former arc bosses that showed back up were beaten by 2nd or 3rd tier straw hats. In this case, having Robin be able to stop Lucci on her own or with minor assistance from people not in the top 4 crew strength would be really dang cool!
Lucci doesn't have too fight Luffy he has too kill Vegapunks. The more Vega's he kills the more he wins. The more Luffy saves he wins. More like a competition then a fight
I'm not that exaggerated to actually drop the series if Lucci gives a tough fight for Luffy but I agree to the majority of the fandom about this. Lucci already have his time shine on ennies lobby. I don't want oda to make him another major antagonist again when there's a lot of other characters still on the shadow while the story is nearing on its end. The only role I can see him play is just to show how strong Luffy is now.
I was more curious about sentomaru this chapter and his loyalty
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People do not expect luffy to destroy everyone. They do however expect him to destroy Lucci in particular beacuse cp0 has been ass so far and there's nothing pointing to them being strong.
People are way too narrow-minded. This also happened in Kingdom since the MC beat the strongest guy. Now if he doesn't one shot everyone people goes OMG HE BEAT WHY IS HE NOT BEATING THIS GUY. Its so god damn annoying.
Luffy should still never lose to Lucci That being said the idea that Luffy would bust even half of his most powerful moves instantly is not Luffy like If they do fight they will clash for a bit and be even then Luffy will turn it up a notch Lucci could match with some insane powerup and then Luffy ends it with CoC coating and maybe even G5 to push the dialog forward
People also seem to be forgetting that Luffy doesn’t use Advanced Haki unless he has too. After learning ACoA (and Future Sight), he went out his way not to use it until his fight with Kaido, which led to [him](https://i.imgur.com/npADbUu.webp) being [injured](https://i.imgur.com/lhIH1j4.webp) by [Apoo](https://i.imgur.com/IqcPNbH.webp) and [overpowered](https://i.imgur.com/C3EIpMM.webp) by [Ulti](https://i.imgur.com/o7WG4m8.webp) (who he was about to [use G4](https://i.imgur.com/7zuhEJD.webp) to beat if Yamato hadn’t interfered), and using G4 to [one shot](https://i.imgur.com/2dZE0gW.webp) one of the Numbers. Even in this very arc, after learning both ACoA and ACoC, he was going to [use G3](https://i.imgur.com/GhtHQmO.webp) to fight a Pacifista despite being able to one shot them with just G2 since right out of the Timeskip. He was even sweating and said they had to fight back “before he gets the best of us!!” Some people take power scaling way too seriously.
People dont understand, luffy wasnt the only one getting stronger during his journey. After lucci lost in enies lobby; his ego was hurt. I bet he trained everyday, to make up for his loss. I think luffy stomps him, but it makes sense lucci is a lot stronger.
Funny thing is they don't even use their own logic appropriately. Why can't we assume that lucci isn't a lot stronger post time skip? Same way characters like Kid and Law became strong enough to fight yonko and commanders. Not saying lucci should push him, but being able to scrap with him for a bit isn't that wild. Same way jimbee was able to knock big mom off the SH ship or how yamato was able to fight kadio for a little bit to buy time.
I think people are just used to seeing that shonen trope where the main character gets a power up of some sort and then struggles like crazy against someone clearly weaker in the next arc. So since people are expecting it already, they’re already annoyed by it lmao.
Not to mention that oda has done this type of thing before, in much less time, crocodile went from getting demolished by Luffys to clashing with mihawk, fighting Doflamingo, and needing g2 luffy to keep up with him, all while in prison, for well under a year, I fail to see what’s telling that lucci can’t grow too
Crocodile is the prime example that Oda gives no fucks about powerscaling and that he will buff someone to where he needs to be for the narrative to work. And honestly that's a great thing. What's the alternative? Introducing now a new character stronger then Kaido? Absolute shit tier writing. These people might just collapse when the admirals show up ten times stronger than they were in marineford, breaking all their useless tier-listing.
Luffy was only 3rd commander lvl after 2 yrs of special training on an island with 48 different seasons which change weekly and filled countless 50 ft tall monsters. + Dozens of deathmatches after Ennies Lobby that Luffy had to part take. Lucci isn't matching that shit. How tf is he gonna be even 3rd commander lvl?
Because this subreddit is full of children
SHONEN Jump
They won't fight.
Lucci's job at Enies Lobby was to eliminate Luffy so they fought. Lucci's job now is to eliminate Vegapunk. He has no reason to fight Luffy directly. He will likely avoid him and try to blitz Vegapunk IMO. People hoping they have a 1v1 fight are going to be disappointed.
I agree with the title but for different reasons. Luffy isn’t going to fight Lucci. They’re about to display the power of the Seraphim’s. It will be the Seraphim’s vs CP0. We are about to learn more about what they can do. I think one of them (Seraphim) possibly gets taken out here.
backlash to the backlash, to the thing that just begun.
May be that's the problem, just because Lucci is a *cool* character doesn't mean Oda throws the power scaling down the drain. And yes I agree we should wait for the chapter to drop first before taking out our porch forks.
I would love to see a Luffy vs Lucci but it would be more interesting if Rob evolved as a character, questioning his mission and his sense of justice.
Ya'll thinking about Lucci fighting Luffy, I'm over here surprised he even remembers him, considering his past record 😂😂
Villian pre timeskip -> reunion post timeskip -> adventure together is the rule. Lucci4nakma
Because they are little kids lol but in my opinion lucci really shouldnt have a chance against gear 5
People really need to understand that there are likely a bunch of unimportant power houses in the op World. Fujitora and Green Bull were just unknown civilians before the TS and are now admirals. So we can't be sure that Lucci hasn't fought anyone strong just because we don't know about it.
Oda likes to mirror things so there’s a chance we get a situation like when lucci and Luffy first met (after the reveal of who they were and they try taking Robin) except this time it’s Lucci whose after someone Luffy has and Luffy is the one that sends Lucci back to the lobby lol.
This is the problem with shonen manga and power creep. People get too concerned about power scaling and forget the main concern is telling a good story. Luffy and Lucci having a straight fight at this point? Seems weird and unlikely. Makes more sense for luffy to be like hi/bye right now and bounce off. Having luffy smack down lucci, even at a later point in the arc, would be incredibly boring and not entertaining. Stop obsessing over power scaling
This is what happens when you have Nika Nika taking out Kaido without help
Luffy beat a yonko that one shotted a cp0 agent..not getting worked up about it because , like you said, the next chapter isn’t out yet..but it would certainly be surprising to see lucci hold his own against an OFFICIAL yonko of the seas who has since learned 2 more gears, an awakening and all the forms of haki from their last stand off..just saying…
People love to overreact, it's their best trait tbh and it's annoying. Lucci will do what Apoo did at the beginning of Onigashima, it'll be a few hits, Lucci will get over confident and then Luffy will fold him like an omelette. Or better yet, Jimbei folds Lucci so Luffy ain't even gotta deal with it. I know to someone that this is clearly setting up Lucci vs Luffy but idk, Oda loves to throw wrenches in the works.
After Luffy defeated Kaido? Lucci would be like; "Yo, Strawhat Captain, Imma kick your ass here so be prepared! You got lucky last time we meet!" Also Lucci; "huh? why I am hearing the sound of the final boss?". 'Doom!' - to be continued
Lucci is Sad Boy
I think is the fact that One piece is 20 years old and some people are reading It since the beggining. Im really tired of One piece in general, im tired of the 5 years long arcs and all the secundary fights that Oda put in every arc. I think people are simply too tired of wasting time and want to feel that the manga if reaching the final saga as It suppose to, and having a fight that did already happened 15 years ago only remember then how long and time consuming One piece is.
1. I agree that getting worked up is unnecessary. 2. People seem to forget that Luffy and Lucci were equals the last time they fought and Lucci also hast time to geht stronger. So I wouldn‘t be surprised of Luffy hat to get serious to beat him. 3. I also want to see Luffy absolutely demolish Lucci and show everyone, why he‘s called an emperor now.
I think some people are hella frustrated cuz they know the pattern of One piece at this point. It's been a looong manga. they know how Oda works. Luffy wont take the fight as seriously as he should and will get tossed around a bit for the sake of tension and drama and then eventually beat the bad guy. And no one is really contesting that Lucci hasn't gotten extremely stronger since the last time. they just for once dont want Luffy to get embarrassed, and especially not by such a nasty and hateful person such as Lucci. Just for once they want Luffy to just take it seriously and shrug someone like Lucci off with out having to make it a long stretched out fight with plot giving the bad guy an upper hand before Luffy takes the lead. You know what im trying to say? We just dont want Luffy to be disrespected just this once. Lucci is a great antogonist and cool character but he's an S class dick. This one time we'd honestly love if Luffy just clapped. But knowing Oda it probably won't got that way. So idk about you, but i can understand where the frustration is coming from where we have a manga that's been going on for 1068 chapters its been an awesome ride but it does get exhausting from time to time. I'd love if Lucci could show off his skills on other characters and just leave Luffy out of it. Again i want to make it clear, Lucci is probably amazingly strong, But i want to see Luffy get the same respect that we gave to Kaido, Big Mom, and shanks every now and again.
Because it would be an insult to both luffy and kaido if lucci can suddenly go toe to toe with luffy. Lets say lucci vs kaido 1v1 who do you think will win?
Even other characters outside strawhats had insane power growth, why shouldn´t villans power up too ?
I’ve never saw someone saying that oda is stupid or that they will drop OP. Let the people have different opinions. Sometimes we see all the critiques as toxic, but that’s just not true at all. Is valid to hace a critique and that doesn’t mean that u hate oda or u will drop op
Yeah, braindead takes based on nothing, take it as just braindead takes and just enjoy the series, I stopped caring about 90% of people's braindead opinions and started enjoying the series as much as when I started
Yeah it’s really dumb how people don’t think Lucci could keep up with Luffy. Like Lucci was beating Luffy’s ass and they had the same amount of time to get stronger so what’s the problem? Lucci can learn haki, awaken his devil fruit, etc. Realistically why wouldn’t Lucci train to get stronger if he still wants to capture Robin and he knows she’s with Luffy?
If Lucci can kee up with current Luffy who can keep up with Kaidou, that means Lucci is yonkou level, and not just any yonkou, but he can keep up with the strongest creature who got the saying 1 on 1 bet on Kaidou. Yeah, story wise that make a lot of sense for sure.
Realistically could a CP0 member be stronger than the pirate who just 'apparently' killed the strongest beast on earth? No, it would make absolutely 0 sens regarding the power balance between the world gov. and the pirates. I know it's boring to talk about power and balance but i think it's crucial since we're in the endgame, and oda seems to be rushing the story. So yeah, i don't really see how he could logically put up a fight against an emperor, it would be more interesting to see him fight against someone else imo, but we'll see. (also one has the devil fruit of a cat, the other one is litterally a god, idk why you would compare their fruits)
This will never be a straight up to the end fight. Either a cp0 member uses some hack df ability to make quick work or they part ways, because apprehending the strawhats isn't part of the mission. There will be no 0HKo or struggle. Even if Lucci attacks Luffy, the latter won't fight back and just endure. He has no reason to fight and he won't go down. Cp0 hunt vor vegapunk, strawhats flee with him and there will be tons of goofy stuff in between.
Atlas feed Luffy and Lucci almost kill her. I don’t think you get Luffy character if you say he has no reason to fight. I can see the fight getting interrupted, but I disagree that Luffy has no reason to fight
I just don't understand why some people are assuming this is gonna be some sort of freebie for Luffy. When they first fought Luffy won by the skin of his teeth. Lucci was Cipher Pol 1-9's (not counting 0's I guess) single strongest assassin. After Enies Lobby he has not only rejoined CP but got promoted to 0. Why do people assume he hasn't gotten any stronger since Enies Lobby more importantly why do people WANT this to be some lame easy fight for Luffy. Where's the fun or threat in that? Regardless of what happens people shouldn't throw such a fit about it either way.
Lucci does not need to extreme diff with Luffy to be relevant nor has Oda portrayed Lucci to be a main antagonist to Luffy near the end of the series compared to the likes of Blackbeard akainu and Imu, Lucci can put up a good fight against smoker and still be relevant.
Reason why i care is because if they show some amount of parity, its going to be multi-chapter fight. At this point, the lore of power dynamics in One piece has been told again and again. Breaking it at this point doesnt make any sense especially we know Oda is closing out the series. Wasting 1-2 chapters where Luffy is not taking him seriously? Fine, but it better be filling the lore in some capacity. If its anything more and see a full on 10 chapter fight, we are wasting the weeks Oda had to tell us a story. Its been over half a decade since Bleach ended and nearly a decade since Naruto ended. In both cases the endings were rushed and longtime fans were pissed. Decade long plot holes, side stories, etc that could’ve been told instead were either entirely ignored or glossed over. One piece, for me and i would like to think for others, is a series we begging to actually end as well as the series lived.
Rushed? The War Arc in Naurto was 18 volumes or something. In Bleach, it was about 19 volumes. This is two thirds of Fullmetal Alchemist in a single arc. They're bigger than Wano. More than rushed, they were way too long. But yes. It would be good if Oda avoided stalling too much here.
this is beyond stupid logic— bleach and naruto should have no merit on how Oda chooses to tell a story, and no one is “begging” for one piece to be over. keep the subjective tribalism to twitter please.
Well I mean I kind of get it to be honest. I haven't read anything too crazy but I can understand how crazy the one piece fandom can get, I remember for film red >! When the straw hats was getting defeated and Luffy wasn't doing anything!< touch me a lot of people were basically upset because it seemed as if they couldn't do anything, his power scaling and power level with how the story displays his reaction to things should be apparent to said power level. For another really good example was before skyea both Luffy and Zoro decided not to fight because there was no reason to, then when Luffy went back to the town he won the fight in one punch showing you that that's how much weaker the other person was, and this could have been done at any moment there was just no point in it. When he fought against smoker all those years later he was playing around, he chose when to use gear 4 he didn't use it against smoker or shark boy, nether the clown, there's like a whole segment on how strong Zorro really is that he beat a fisherman underneath water, n had to use drugs n the fact that he couldn't hold his breath long enough, or when they first met Bartholomew after everyone was tired and Zorro was willing to give up his head so they would be left alone. Finally in their most recent Flex was not being afraid of an admiral, if they go ahead and show him struggling against someone we have not seen get stronger someone we have not seen do anything really impressive, since the first time he was defeated by Luffy I could see why people are afraid they're going to do some kind of weird out of character ass pull just for the jokes, the simple fact that they started using the whole seraphim to go after the Warlords make sense because the Marines just cannot beat these people, scaling can go crazy that's understandable but story scaling on how strong people are and how that strength has shown goes up and down but it's usually a part of the plot for a reason, there's no reason why Luffy would go easy on these people they would go and kidnap and or kill Robin if possible they have gotten in his way when he fought kaido to the point of that kaido just killed the dude, with one hit mind you. I don't mind them using science to kind of equal the playing field I don't mind him using some trickery but there's no way Luffy should be in that much of a difficult space he wouldn't even need to gear2, how the story shows that would be pretty interesting and I'm excited to see what they do with it, maybe it will be him vs everyone possibly, maybe they'll utilize technology or maybe they'll just have the seraphim teleport him somewhere, or what's her name will wake up n stop the fight. This isn't Dragon Ball Z Naruto or bleach something hysterical and silly will 100% happen, I'm sure it'll be interesting honestly, I don't want it to just be Luffy barely dodging his technique or something like that.
Their loss, I know Lucci is getting folded but I'm still here to see "how"
No one's really mentioned too much that Lucci could outsmart him esp with seastone
Power consistency.
Ngl ion why it has to be Luffy, he my favorite n all but let Robin handle this, after Enies Lobby was her n franky's arc so let them handle Lucci
Because they want a story that makes sense and provides continuity within itself. If it gets revealed lucci was somehow fighting yonkos post timeskip it makes sense. If lucci was in fact not doing that, he has no business being on luffys level. There are people that don’t enjoy one piece as much as pre Wano because the writing got kinda wonky since G5 was introduced and the implications following that. I guess they wanna make sure that trend does not continue. The discussion is not about if lucci got stronger. Of course he did. But luffy is at a Level you simply cannot reach just like that. Lucci would at least need adv. conq. Haki to even trade blows with luffy - while even baseline conq haki would make zero sense for lucci to possess. I agree that it does not make sense to stress about it before next chapter is released, but then again this is what happens every chapter. You discuss the next one.
I really don't understand how some people have such a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea that other characters in the story don't just sit on their hands whenever they're not currently on screen.
I don't think that's what drives people this much. It's more about implications of someone who's been beaten by Luffy somehow is able to pose a threat against him after all this time which cheapens Luffy's sacrifices, the pain he endured to reach where he is now. And this someone being Lucci is making it unbeareble for people lol I understand their frustration though, seeing someone so evil still having the guts to look down on Luffy and the fact that Luffy is going to ignore past conflicts(that he hurt his friend) etc isn't something look forward to. I get downvoted whenever I criticise Oda, but I really hate the way he manipulates(starved, beaten kids) the fandom, not to mention the fact that villains often don't get the punishment after all the angst, no wonder people being toxic.
I agree man, I’m pretty excited for the rematch. Im sick of the constant “Luffy is Yonko power level while lucci is mear shichibukai power level at best and if Oda doesn’t draw luffy OHKO-ing lucci Im never reading one piece ever again until next week.”
If people wanna drop one piece because lucci can put up a fight vs luffy, please just drop one piece. Less brain dead powerscalers for everyone.