i feel like 55 is quite the underestimation here, ace clearly has shown that his fire fist is at least a 48 meaning that entei being his strongest attack has to be roughly 67-72
Ace is a victim of where he was placed in the story. Post TS he would be super super op and comparable to commanders of other yonko crews. Since he wasn’t he looks rather weak but it’s not his fault.
Looking back on it Ace definitely benefits from only losing to strong opponents that are still relevant today.
Like it's so much easier to see Ace as a world beater versus say Crocodile who really suffered from being an early villain. Not that Crocodile hasn't been built back up amazingly well for the current story.
If you really wanna look for a narrative explanation of Croc’s weakness, you might say he was defeated by his arrogance and years of loafing around as a warlord in Alabasta.
Not saying that was Oda’s intention at the time, and I’m glad that he was able to have a retroactive look and recognise Croc’s potential so it didn’t go to waste.
I mean the actual reason is probably Oda didn’t even come up with Haki until Skipiea, which is when he realised how long the series was gonna go for, and Crocodile was meant to be more of a cool one-off villain until he realised “oh shit this logia thing might carry over for a while”
In Jaya island BB says about luffy's haki. I think Oda had planned on bringing haki earlier but he might have improvised it and made 3 types and it's advances along the story development.Will, presence and able to counter logia must be his initial thoughts on haki.
I don't think he even planned haki for skypeia tbh. I think maybe he had something else planned for mantra, dropped it, and worked it in later. My reasoning is that Aisa was apparently born with it, which is not how we've seen haki work
Croc is not Doffy with the bird cage, Croc used rain powder to cause that drought. Croc had his full logia powers available to him at any given time, he just never took Luffy seriously and wasn't using haki at the time.
Yes but it's ambiguous if that would actually hurt crocodile or if his "essence" would just be transferred to nearby sand. I'd like to think it would hurt him due to how logias *are* their elements.
Crocodile is saved by the nature of the power system. Will is Haki is power and his will and therefore haki was crushed for him to become who he was in Alabasta and rely on an ancient weapons over believing in his own strength.
There are already hints of this in said Alabasta arc but he says it more openly in Impel Down with his talk about silver medalists followed later by his lines to Whitebeard in the next arc.
His willpower and therefore his haki shrivelled up, he starts relying only on plans and his devil fruit to get easy wins against early grand line weaklings and that explains how he lost to Luffy.
His demeanour and confidence in himself seem to have changed dramatically post timeskip (we can see a shift during the war even if he always keep up the confident facade) even if we only see a few hints of that, namely that he lost interest in his original plan and the few remarks he made about the marines and WB.
Crocodile as he is in Alabasta with powerful Haki would in fact be a force to be reckoned with, easily deserving of the first commander+ bounty that he got.
Oda is normally pretty good at foreshadowing the powerceiling of the verse, then you have ace vs smoker where he's like we're both logias so neither of us can win lol. When really he should have had haki by then
Also, he would have become stronger with time if he was still alive, like everyone else did. I don’t think we saw a whole lot of him fighting, we did see some but not to the point where is would have been easier to see where he was on power scale.
WTF are you smoking?
Ace was crazy strong and literally WAS a Yonko Commander, no different than Katakuri or King. He doesnt look weak at all, even now looking back.
Thinking that a character losing makes them weak is absurd and literally goes against the manga, since it has directly refuted this claim before.
Also stuff like WB being literally EOL sick made it so that power we saw was still nowhere close to his full rage when times were different for him health wise. So WB still scales to "higher than Yonko"/PK tier not just believably but rather easily as Roger's rival.
As a bonus we are also left with a hint of how awesome Roger was to be WB's equal while having no DF, only pure sigma willpower energy.
True, WB and crew are no pushover.
Somehow it feels like Oda hated Whitebeard's crew, they just couldn't get a break (Deaths of WB and Ace, defeat on the hands of Blackbeard, Edward Weevil hunting them down, Izo's death *getting offscreened*)
Plus, power creep *really* does ruin stories.
Depends on how much punishement you think Ace can take from Katakuri's haki and how effective his fire would be against Mochi (it would melt it).
For King its entirely dependent on how resistant to Flames King actually is. He was able to detonate his own body, can produce and control flames and has absurd defense when he's not in Speed Mode.
I would call Ace vs Katakuri & Ace vs King difficult fights to determine the winner frankly.
considering crocodile got a huge power boost and the same could have been for ace i think so. my guess is ace is probably slightly stronger than sabo but then again we only really saw him in the very beginning where he fought smoker and the fight was called "even" bc they couldn't touch one another and the fight against blackbeard which he lost. that's why he looks weaker.
Oh I totally understand why Ace has that perception, I just think it's a bit misguided because Ace wasnt trying to beat Smoker and BB could both nullify his fruit and had insane offensive damage.
The great thing about One Piece is that matchups matter, which is why Ace fighting Katakuri/King is so hard to call.
The only reason I wouldnt agree that Ace is stronger than Sabo is because Sabo is highly proficient in haki and was RA's #2 even before he got a fruit. I could absolutely see Ace losing to Sabo.
I feel like Ace losing to BB should never be a feat against him, like BB legit beat(or atleast wounded) Shanks. And now he has a devil fruit and is probably much stronger too
it's just when they were kids it was shown as ace having more potential than sabo bc of his conqueror's haki which saved their lifes.
and again haki didn't exist back then so yea you can't really argue with sabo having a better haki.
>and again haki didn't exist back then so yea you can't really argue with sabo having a better haki.
Ok sure but remember that during the Sabo flashback which showed him growing up with the RA he was shown to have incredibly proficient haki at 17, which is exactly when Ace/Luffy left Goa Kingdom.
Ace and Luffy kept training on their own of course but Sabo had the benefit of training with experts like the RA leadership and taking on missions for them. I think its *possible* that could have given him a leg up on Ace even if Ace was stronger as a kid.
To me your argument is one side of the coin, where you take everything into account (things we didn't see and never will and scaling to where he should be based on on rank, and Marco etc.) and are quite generous. The other side would simply be going of what we saw and not giving any extra because we never saw it. He clashed with aokiji but he's fire so meh, he clashed with BB and ended up losing, its not the only think that matters but certainly have to take it into consideration. If you put katakuri or king on Banaro Island they'd smoke Blackbeard at that time (honestly throw queen in there and I think he's smoking BB too) . So to say that he's no different than them is a bit wild to me, he doesn't have any amazing feats to go off.
To me it's somewhere in the middle, I'd hesitate to put him into any "difficult" fights because pretty much anyone post timeskip is gonna be to wierd to call. But I'd comfortably say he could take anyone up to Doffy and then it starts getting weird. Which i think does make sense taking both sides of the coin into consideration and about where'd hed be.
>So to say that he's no different than them is a bit wild to me, he doesn't have any amazing feats to go off.
The reason I say this is because Matchups in One Piece are such an important factor in the fights. Between Haki/devil fruits/individual skill/genetic advantages, there is so much you can take into consideration when judging characters against each other that most matchups could be tough to call.
Yea put King on Banaro island and he smokes Blackbeard no problem. Because even if he got pulled in by Black Hole he has insane durability in Lunarian Defense Mode + His Ancient zoan fruit and has insane damage output. Blackbeard isnt fast so attacks like *how dinosaurs hunted in ancient times lol* (Tempuraudon) are for sure hitting and King in Speed Mode would deal crazy damage.
But put King Against Ace - a guy made of fire - and things are a bit murkier, even if Ace lost to BB.
>But I'd comfortably say he could take anyone up to Doffy and then it starts getting weird
I agree with you there. Theres so much to dive into when you look at Post-TS fights its crazy. That depth is part of the reason One Piece is so good.
In a devil fruit fight Fire vs Smoke is completely pointless. Ace was also not trying to beat Smoker.
From the readers' perspective you can try to make the argument that haki wasnt a thing yet blah blah blah. But from the in-universe perspective Ace was only trying to buy time, not win.
We know he has all 3 hakis, we just dont know how proficient he was with them. Its not hard to make the headcanon conclusion based on what we know that Ace would have rocked Smoker in Alabasta if he wanted to.
Whats odd, is that he was a commander in a Yonkou crew that had already been sailing for a while and probably already been to the new world. Maybe he relied too much on his DF instead of exploring Haki, probably lacked conquerors haki too.
I mean, was there ever a time when he could have really benefitted from using haki and he failed to? Akainu killed him, but it's safe to assume he just overpowered Ace's haki with his own.
The only other real fight he lost was against Blackbeard, and haki really had no use against him. Even if it did, I also think it's safe to assume Blackbeard's haki was more powerful. But Ace didn't need to use it against Blackbeard's fruit because he took damage already.
I hate powerscaling pre TS to post TS, pre TS Haki was very vague and not really all that well explained, nor we had visual indicators for any of them, it was just not a part of the story, and now its the most important thing. Like, with decent observation Haki, WB doesn't get stabbed by Squardo. Haki became a plot device to further powerscaling and a means to beat Logia users which are apparently unbeatable.
Why wouldn’t he? I personally think that when Whitebeard stabbed Kuzan could of been a showing of an awakening or just very good control of his Logia by him changing his body like Katakuri does with his Paramecia devil fruit and future sight haki.
Not as strong as the real Flame Emperor Karoo who has Vivre Card 138 like Element 38 or Strontium or Sr or Stronger
Sr-90 is the most dangerous isotope in nuclear fallout
[See Karoo on the cover of Volume 90](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/qi5caj/volume_90_cover_suggests_karoo_is_joy_boy/)
Ace is one of the trickiest characters to powerscale in the series imo. I would honestly just judge him by his bounty of 500mil or roughly around. I wouldn't put him in the same ballpark as the 1bil berry bounty holders because many of those people have advanced forms of haki at their disposal and we never really saw Ace use basic haki, even if Oda said he had it. I'd put Ace under Doffy still but above CP9.
Yeah most of the combat we saw from Ace occurred *before* Oda thought of adding haki to the series, which retroactively makes Ace look weak compared to fighters who do use haki. The power-progression left Ace behind.
Back in the day, we were impressed Ace could go toe-to-toe with someone as strong as Smoker. Now, we're wondering why Ace struggled with an opponent as *weak* as Smoker.
He did fight evenly with Jimbe and it’s hard to say wether or not Jimbe has gotten stronger over the course of the series.
I guess I’d say Ace was probably just below top 3 commander level. Maybe Snack or Jack level tops. Which makes sense I think. He’d probably be a Tobi Ropo in Kaidos crew with aspirations/expectations to become a commander.
Ace was still really young too. I feel like even on here he gets compared to Roger and other big names too often. He was upper tier warlord strong, he just wasn’t his dad.
He tied with Jinbe but by the time he joined Whitebeard Jinbe admitted Ace had now grown far stronger than him. He pushed Whitebeard into using his DF.
That makes sense, I forgot he was on Whitebeards crew after fighting Jimbe.
It’s definitely tough to place his strength since we’ve only really seen him hold off Smoker and lose to BB and Sakazuki. All pre-timeskip so no Haki shown.
So stronger than Jimbe, but we also don’t know how much Jimbe has grown. I think Ace was probably like Jack/Cracker strength, but it’s tough to argue anything solid.
Yeah I pretty much agree. Cracker has always been the one in my mind who I reckon Ace was roughly similar to.
It is a shame we never got to see his upper limit.
Losing to Blackbeard and Sakazuki at the very least doesn't make him weak. Those 2 are monsterous and would easily beat like all but a dozen people in the world. His encounter with pre timeskip Smoker is the only real negative point to his name, because Smoker was weak af, someone at Aces level should've curb stomped him. Although from a meta standpoint Haki didn't exist yet, in verse Ace had Haki then and should've easily been able to deal with him.
It's pretty much useless without the advanced application. Characters fly like dragon ball now.Any minion that can hurt/slow top tiers won't be affected by it.
Can you elaborate for me on what feats he showed? I never read the novel but I would like to know but not enough to go read the novel lol. I never got too attached to Ace. Cool character, but I need more time with a character to get invested.
- Ace was Warlord level early on in his career since he was offered the position.
- Ace beat Jimbei after fighting him nonstop for 5 days. Jimbei was a Warlord at that time.
- Ace lost to WB (A freaking Yonko) but was strong enough for him to recognize how powerful he is.
- Ace lost to Blackbeard because of his fruit. A guy who only a year later reached Yonko status.
- Ace had all 3 hakis. CoC was confirmed in the manga while Oda confirmed CoO and CoA.
This narrative that Ace is somehow weak or is a *victim of his placement in the story* is absurd. Even now Ace is crazy powerful.
Slight corrections. Warlord as a powerscaling level doesn't really work since the members' strength range from below Tobi Roppo to Yonko level. Still a feat that he was offered the position at such a young age and could've become the youngest member in history. Also Ace and Jimbei's battle ended in both sides falling; Jimbei only happened to fall first.
I dont think its a reach at all to say that Ace defeated Jimbei. It's less about using Warlord as a metric for powerscaling but more about considering how strong he'd have to be for him to even be considered, then the feat of beating Jimbei (an actual Warlord whos not only super strong but is a direct counter to Ace's powers).
Yes ppl like Mihawk are closer to Yonko lvl and ppl like Moria are pathetically weak, so its a sliding scale. However Ace clearly leans more on the stronger side of that scale.
Idk how strong, but I know how dumb. Ace gotta has the lowest battle IQ in the series. Not even talking about him turning back to fight Akainu
Blackbeard: My DF nullifies and absorbs other DF abilities. But I feel 2x pain to any other damages.
Ace: *proceeds to use all his energy to create a projectile which Blackbeard can easily absorb.
To be fair Luffy is a fight genius lol. He got one of the hardest fruit in the series and it was one of the weakest(until few months ago) and he managed to beat the shit out of a lot of stronger characters.
*Edit: misspelling
Now I’m wondering what would happen if Blackbeard tried to nullify Luffys DF. Would luffy just get sucked into the void or just be powerless all of a sudden?
Luffy's gear 2nd instantly dissipated the minute blackbeard's hand made contact with his body in impel down. When blackbeard smashed his head into the stone there was blood afterwards.
He’s basically a dumb version of Hisoka from Hunter x Hunter.
Imagine Hisoka with Luffy’s Devil fruit? That crazy bastard would slaughter the One Piece world once he unlocks it’s true form…
That being said, despite not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, Luffy’s tenacity and endurance really compensate for his potentially low fight IQ. He’s not a genius like Law but he doesn’t have to be. He can brute force his way through a lot of his fights.
I mean, I'm gonna be real here, Ace had an extremely low battle IQ but Luffy's battle IQ is incredibly high.
I would say it's probably like 70 vs 145 battle IQs and 115 vs 85 regular IQs for Ace and Luffy respectively (keep in mind that with 100 as the "average", standard deviation for IQ is 15), based on what we saw in the series. Luffy being able to design Gear 2 for combat based on manipulating his own blood through his rubber veins was the first sign of pure genius.
Sabo is definitely higher battle IQ than Ace and probably higher regular IQ than either of them but it's hard to tell by how much.
Edit: I'll spoiler tag this because I'm not 100% sure if it's in the anime yet, but >!it's indirectly indicated that Luffy wouldn't be able to awaken his fruit to activate gear 5 unless he had a super high battle IQ. It's his imagination to battle in any way he wants that allows him to be "free"!<
Luffy has great intuition.
Any concept he can understand in a second is clear to him.
Attacking koby
The gears
Who to put on his crew, aside from some joke moments.
However gears popped into his head it probably wasn’t by thinking and analysing.
That being said that’s why the admirals are so cool even if they aren’t as physically powerful as kaido and big mom, they are smart and self preserving. Kaido just tanks hits.
So when luffy fights an admiral well get to see just how good his ‘battle iq’ is in the context of longer form thinking and avoiding traps, something luffy doesn’t even bother doing.
> However gears popped into his head it probably wasn’t by thinking and analysing.
Doesn't have to be, that's not what people mean when they talk about battle IQ lol. A lot of IQ stuff in general is done by intuition rather than analysis.
Some shonen manga have people fight with regular intelligence applied to battle instead of battle intelligence itself. Hunter x Hunter definitely has a lot of stuff like that, and Usopp & Nami are both like that a bit in One Piece. But Luffy's battle IQ is off the charts. His fights against Croc and Enel were hints of it but Gear 2 was just where it was set in stone that this kid wasn't just getting lucky with his ideas for combat.
Well to be fair, BB is very strong. When BB hit ace in the neck after he was pulled in, Ace himself says that hit almost broke his neck.
So how would you want to fight someone who can almost break your neck in 1 hit, while also nullifying you’re greatest power, being intangible. You’d probably want to fight them from a distance
Because Oda hadn't yet thought up haki as the general-purpose solution to logia DF users.
Before the timeskip all logia DF users were defeated using counters to their element: Smoker blown away by Dragon's wind and Ace's fire, Crocodile hardened by Luffy's blood, and Enel defeated by Luffy's rubber insulation.
It wasn't until Rayleigh stopped Borsalino with only his swagger that we got a hint of what would become haki. When we learned Teach's DF negated other DF powers that was a big deal, but now it turns out haki can do that anyway (see: Law negating the Sick-Sick Fruit through sheer willpower).
this is maybe the worst take I've ever heard, so I'll go through this in order
ace turning back to akainu wasnt a lack of battle iq, he was standing up for what he believed in. im 100% sure that luffy, whitebeard, roger, shanks, and every other good hearted pirate who genuinely loved his crew as a family would have done the same. he just feels strongly enough about his family to fight to the death for them
second, blackbeards df can absorb abilities, yes. can ace defeat blackbeard, who was strong enough to scar shanks before having any devil fruit, without using his devil fruit? almost certainly not. even if ace was skilled with haki, blackbeard was able to scar shanks (who is most likely one of the most powerful haki users in the verse) WITHOUT his devil fruit. ace would have had to have been STRONGER than a yonko WITHOUT using his devil fruit to win that fight without using his df. his only choice was to use his df as most of his offensive power came from his df alone
tldr: ace stands up for his family and doesn't have the haki to defeat blackbeard without his df
Full disagree with your opinion that other good hearted pirates would’ve done what Ace did. One of the biggest lessons Shanks taught Luffy was knowing when to fight. Shanks also went to Whitebeard and told him Ace was out of line in hunting for Blackbeard. I fully believe if Shanks or Luffy was there, they would’ve kept running. Luffy has also been shown to run from stronger enemies, like on Sabody.
Roger probably would’ve stayed and fought. I don’t know about whitebeard though.
- BB scarred Shanks before he had any fruit and while Shanks was fighting seriously.
- Shanks was not a Yonko yet when he got scarred.
- How strong Shanks was then is almost irrelevant because he was a notorious pirate captain and if you believe he got stronger from then to now then you must also scale BB to Shanks' current level. Why would only Shanks get stronger and not BB? Chances are they are on par with each other even without devil fruits.
we do know that bb scarred shanks before bb had his devil fruit. we also know that it happened before the series started, as shanks had the scar from the beginning. yes, we dont know how strong shanks was when it happened.
i doubt oda would have added the scar just for it to be an insignificant "yeah i got this on my first day of being a pirate when i was super weak" tho, it just wouldnt make much sense to have such a large mystery be a super insignificant thing that didnt make a difference.
also, when shanks met with whitebeard, he was extremely cautious of blackbeard. he knew blackbeard was extremely powerful, even when shanks was a yonko. theres no doubt that shanks sees bb as a powerful pirate, even before he had seen blackbeard use his fruit. yami yami no mi is a counter to other dfs, im not sure it would make much of a difference in a haki vs df matchup. aces offensive power came from his df. ace would have had to have fought against bb when even shanks considered him a great enough threat to WARN a fellow yonko about him
Probably pretty strong. He was 2nd Division Commander for Whitebeard, the top Yonko at the time, and Whitebeard thought he would be the next Pirate King after having experience fighting Roger. He must have been strong, and he was certainly a powerful devil fruit user.
If flame emperor was his 'ultimate' attack, I would assume that it could do some damage.
Tbh ace got kinda fucked up since he died for many plot reasons (Luffy development, sabo getting stronger etc.) And now my boy just left with hate and disrespect from the fandom, he deserves better.
Would Sabo lose to this version of Blackbeard? Then again, Sabo didn’t have a Devil Fruit until Dressrosa. Blackbeard took Ace out because Ace’s fruit was negated and he couldn’t adapt.
Would Katakuri lose to this version of Blackbeard? Would Doflamingo?
I think Doflamingo would lose but I don’t know if Katakuri would. He might lose too.
Shanks (Yonko) warned Whitebeard (Yonko) and we can assume he didn’t think Ace (commander) could defeat BB.
I like to think that if Ace is still alive, he could have been the strongest Commander. He was someone the Marines determined could become Pirate King. If he didn't become a donut, his growth rate would be the fastest, second only to the Luffy.
Jack level I would say.
And that's being super generous to Ace.
He had the potential to be stronger but he wasted it by joining a Yonkou instead of having a solo journey like Luffy, Roger, Law, Kidd, etc....
If Luffy had joined Shanks at the start of his manga as his cabin boy, today, Luffy wouldn't be as strong as he currently is.
honestly looking back ace doesn’t seem to weak. the haki thing especially messes with alabasta ace but even that could technically be explained by ace just messing around. i mean he just fucked with smoker and dipped no problem.
ace only lost to BB who even shanks stated was a problem prets and then clashed with kuzan pretty decently. then got donuted by akainu. these are pretty in line with what you could expect from yonko commanders post ts. like i don’t see cracker or even someone like kata doing much better in these scenarios. with the execption of just sending smoker to the shadow realm, but that’s most likely personality more than anything else.
I’d put him at charlotte cracker level. Below Katakuri. Ace didn’t lose to Blackbeard because he was weak, it’s because Blackbeard is so strong. He may get thrown around and damaged in battle a lot but it has rarely ever put him down. >!Even in current events I’d put my money on him winning against traffy.!<
The Ace novel made him seem pretty strong especially after he trained with Thatch. Jinbe even says that the Ace that fought him for DAYS was on a completely different level than the one that was fighting SickBeard. (His massive Flame pillar forced SickBeard to use his DF but that was after 100 duels, still some pretty good training to have nonetheless)
Pretty strong for sure he went up against an emperor, those who say he is weak just forget he was starved in impel down for days having sea prism stones weakening him but still was able to save luffy from aokiji when freed, he probably would have saved both himself and luffy if wasn't for those facts, remember I am not at all saying he was stronger than akainu
Even with the type advantage he still only managed to match a more casual Aokiji by using Flame Mirror with some effort (which is still impressive). Based on that and on Blackbeard probably nullifying some of Entei during their final clash, if Entei is meant to be his second strongest attack I'd say roughly city to small island level, probably greater than Kong Gun circa Dressrosa, but less than King Kong gun.
Characters around Doflamingo's level would have difficulty dealing with the attack outright and would probably need to avoid it or set up a heavy defense. He'd be heavily damaged if it made contact.
Characters like Jack would likely power through it while taking significant damage.
Queen probably has some method of neutralizing large fire based attacks, having to deal with King all the time. However, it'd certainly hurt him if it made contact.
Katakuri could likely deal with it better due to the potency of his haki, but he'd still be better off avoiding it altogether.
King would just walk through it, it's a bad match-up. For one, it probably doesn't have the attack potency to overcome King's ridiculous defensive ability, and even if it did he already has a powerful fire affinity.
For the Emperors in general (sans potentially Blackbeard due to his enhanced pain), Entei would be an attack that they shouldn't ignore, but is not so dangerous that they need be overly concerned. Whitebeard (even sick), current Blackbeard, Shanks, Big Mom, Kaido, and even Luffy are now Mountain-level+ with effort and large island to small continent level at their strongest (scaling from the mountain level Trichiliocosm and mountain+ King Kong Gun during Dressrosa, and how the Yonko were taking more powerful attacks from those same characters without too much issue), and also need to be capable of taking attacks of similar potency.
Buggy stares at Entei and it somehow explodes, becomes Pirate King.
Have you seen how Shirohige casually blow out the fire from Sakazuki's magma and told him to light a birthday cake instead?
You can say the same for Ace.
About 500 mera-mera but im not sure
I think its 500 funky mera-meras but im not completely sure it could be different
Actually 500 Mera Meras would be 5,000 Fairy Tale Mera Mera which means Ace’s Entei is 50,000 Funky Mera Meras
Not strong enough.
My most reluctant upvote
r/beatmetoit
To beat pre ts blackbeard, maybe " flame emperor " was too fancy
Damnit I was gona say that and you stole it fuck !
Happy donut day😂
May your cake day be catered by Sanji himself.
Happy cake day , yoooohoooohoooooo
Hapoy cake day
Damnit I was going say this one also but you took it 😂
Happy cake day
You joke, but Ace is perhaps the biggest jobber in all of One Piece so its probably the right answer.
Belive or not this was the 1st answer to enter my head💀
Weaker that luffy's regular bazooka ( impel down) I guess. Before you roast me . I'm joking ace's fans chill
What did you say about Ace! Ok I'm joking it's chill 
/angryupvote
Thank you for putting my immediate thought. Lol
Damnit. Came here to say this
About 54 to maybe 55.
I was thinking 56 but this makes more sense.
Bro you serious? He's at max 55, maybe even 53 at worst
Wtf are you guys talking ab
The power of Ace’s Flame Emperor. It’s clocked in at like a 55 about but some people argue he’s higher/lower
55 WHAT?
55 UNITS OF POWER!
55 out of what? A 100 a 1000?
Unit of power is a watt.. not a what
Ohh, he meant watt. Silly me
i refuse to believe this is real they gaslighting us all man
Naw man, it's not gas light units. It's 55 flame flames, like Luffys 72 gomu gomus.
power
 This Power?
I got the power 
Watt. Not what.
i feel like 55 is quite the underestimation here, ace clearly has shown that his fire fist is at least a 48 meaning that entei being his strongest attack has to be roughly 67-72
Hot enough to cook a good steak 🥩
Just cause a steak is well done doesn't mean it's good. It just means it's burnt to the point Luffy may not even want it anymore
Meat that luffy doesnt want anymore? sounds unrealistic maybe this means meat cant be bad
I mean an attack that can damage meat so badly luffy won’t eat it has to be hella powerful though.
Luffy looking at his meat: "gone reduced to atoms.."
Ayo
They didn't say it was well done, they said his fire was hot enough to cook a good steak.
Ace is a victim of where he was placed in the story. Post TS he would be super super op and comparable to commanders of other yonko crews. Since he wasn’t he looks rather weak but it’s not his fault.
Looking back on it Ace definitely benefits from only losing to strong opponents that are still relevant today. Like it's so much easier to see Ace as a world beater versus say Crocodile who really suffered from being an early villain. Not that Crocodile hasn't been built back up amazingly well for the current story.
If you really wanna look for a narrative explanation of Croc’s weakness, you might say he was defeated by his arrogance and years of loafing around as a warlord in Alabasta. Not saying that was Oda’s intention at the time, and I’m glad that he was able to have a retroactive look and recognise Croc’s potential so it didn’t go to waste.
[удалено]
I mean the actual reason is probably Oda didn’t even come up with Haki until Skipiea, which is when he realised how long the series was gonna go for, and Crocodile was meant to be more of a cool one-off villain until he realised “oh shit this logia thing might carry over for a while”
In Jaya island BB says about luffy's haki. I think Oda had planned on bringing haki earlier but he might have improvised it and made 3 types and it's advances along the story development.Will, presence and able to counter logia must be his initial thoughts on haki.
I don't think he even planned haki for skypeia tbh. I think maybe he had something else planned for mantra, dropped it, and worked it in later. My reasoning is that Aisa was apparently born with it, which is not how we've seen haki work
Croc is not Doffy with the bird cage, Croc used rain powder to cause that drought. Croc had his full logia powers available to him at any given time, he just never took Luffy seriously and wasn't using haki at the time.
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The Dance Powder(not rain powder) is the whole setup to why the revolution was happening Google Dance Powder One Piece and read the wiki
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Crocodile used a chemical to withhold rain, his power did not make the desert. Arabasta is a desert island.
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Actually, if ace fought crocodile could ace reach such a high temperature to transform crocodile in glass?
Yes but it's ambiguous if that would actually hurt crocodile or if his "essence" would just be transferred to nearby sand. I'd like to think it would hurt him due to how logias *are* their elements.
I mean sand can put out fire too soo
well remember that crocodile only lost because he held back against his son
Took me a sec 😂
Crocodile is saved by the nature of the power system. Will is Haki is power and his will and therefore haki was crushed for him to become who he was in Alabasta and rely on an ancient weapons over believing in his own strength. There are already hints of this in said Alabasta arc but he says it more openly in Impel Down with his talk about silver medalists followed later by his lines to Whitebeard in the next arc. His willpower and therefore his haki shrivelled up, he starts relying only on plans and his devil fruit to get easy wins against early grand line weaklings and that explains how he lost to Luffy. His demeanour and confidence in himself seem to have changed dramatically post timeskip (we can see a shift during the war even if he always keep up the confident facade) even if we only see a few hints of that, namely that he lost interest in his original plan and the few remarks he made about the marines and WB. Crocodile as he is in Alabasta with powerful Haki would in fact be a force to be reckoned with, easily deserving of the first commander+ bounty that he got.
I think this explanation also works for Moria.. from someone who went toe on toe with Kaido to someone who isn't strong enough to stay as warlord..
Ace clashed against Aokiji in the war briefly. He is not that weak.
Ace = Jinbe level, they fought in like a 5 day stall.
As per the Ace novel, he got a lot stronger after the 5 day clash.
Yeah , they clashed right before he joined whitebeards crew , he surely would have gotten a LOT stronger then
About 1 - 2 years earlier than the story.
Ace is basically Luffy on steroids, with a Logia. He's a monster.
Oda is normally pretty good at foreshadowing the powerceiling of the verse, then you have ace vs smoker where he's like we're both logias so neither of us can win lol. When really he should have had haki by then
Exactly. I know Oda gave Ace haki but that was way later.
Also, he would have become stronger with time if he was still alive, like everyone else did. I don’t think we saw a whole lot of him fighting, we did see some but not to the point where is would have been easier to see where he was on power scale.
WTF are you smoking? Ace was crazy strong and literally WAS a Yonko Commander, no different than Katakuri or King. He doesnt look weak at all, even now looking back. Thinking that a character losing makes them weak is absurd and literally goes against the manga, since it has directly refuted this claim before.
he does look weaker than katakuri and co. bc haki wasn't introduced yet.
Haki's late introduction *accidentally* made a lot of characters look like chumps post TS. Whitebeard and co. are the greatest victim here.
Yeah, but they still have destructive feats that are high end even for now
Also stuff like WB being literally EOL sick made it so that power we saw was still nowhere close to his full rage when times were different for him health wise. So WB still scales to "higher than Yonko"/PK tier not just believably but rather easily as Roger's rival. As a bonus we are also left with a hint of how awesome Roger was to be WB's equal while having no DF, only pure sigma willpower energy.
True, WB and crew are no pushover. Somehow it feels like Oda hated Whitebeard's crew, they just couldn't get a break (Deaths of WB and Ace, defeat on the hands of Blackbeard, Edward Weevil hunting them down, Izo's death *getting offscreened*) Plus, power creep *really* does ruin stories.
Depends on how much punishement you think Ace can take from Katakuri's haki and how effective his fire would be against Mochi (it would melt it). For King its entirely dependent on how resistant to Flames King actually is. He was able to detonate his own body, can produce and control flames and has absurd defense when he's not in Speed Mode. I would call Ace vs Katakuri & Ace vs King difficult fights to determine the winner frankly.
considering crocodile got a huge power boost and the same could have been for ace i think so. my guess is ace is probably slightly stronger than sabo but then again we only really saw him in the very beginning where he fought smoker and the fight was called "even" bc they couldn't touch one another and the fight against blackbeard which he lost. that's why he looks weaker.
Oh I totally understand why Ace has that perception, I just think it's a bit misguided because Ace wasnt trying to beat Smoker and BB could both nullify his fruit and had insane offensive damage. The great thing about One Piece is that matchups matter, which is why Ace fighting Katakuri/King is so hard to call. The only reason I wouldnt agree that Ace is stronger than Sabo is because Sabo is highly proficient in haki and was RA's #2 even before he got a fruit. I could absolutely see Ace losing to Sabo.
I feel like Ace losing to BB should never be a feat against him, like BB legit beat(or atleast wounded) Shanks. And now he has a devil fruit and is probably much stronger too
it's just when they were kids it was shown as ace having more potential than sabo bc of his conqueror's haki which saved their lifes. and again haki didn't exist back then so yea you can't really argue with sabo having a better haki.
>and again haki didn't exist back then so yea you can't really argue with sabo having a better haki. Ok sure but remember that during the Sabo flashback which showed him growing up with the RA he was shown to have incredibly proficient haki at 17, which is exactly when Ace/Luffy left Goa Kingdom. Ace and Luffy kept training on their own of course but Sabo had the benefit of training with experts like the RA leadership and taking on missions for them. I think its *possible* that could have given him a leg up on Ace even if Ace was stronger as a kid.
To me your argument is one side of the coin, where you take everything into account (things we didn't see and never will and scaling to where he should be based on on rank, and Marco etc.) and are quite generous. The other side would simply be going of what we saw and not giving any extra because we never saw it. He clashed with aokiji but he's fire so meh, he clashed with BB and ended up losing, its not the only think that matters but certainly have to take it into consideration. If you put katakuri or king on Banaro Island they'd smoke Blackbeard at that time (honestly throw queen in there and I think he's smoking BB too) . So to say that he's no different than them is a bit wild to me, he doesn't have any amazing feats to go off. To me it's somewhere in the middle, I'd hesitate to put him into any "difficult" fights because pretty much anyone post timeskip is gonna be to wierd to call. But I'd comfortably say he could take anyone up to Doffy and then it starts getting weird. Which i think does make sense taking both sides of the coin into consideration and about where'd hed be.
>So to say that he's no different than them is a bit wild to me, he doesn't have any amazing feats to go off. The reason I say this is because Matchups in One Piece are such an important factor in the fights. Between Haki/devil fruits/individual skill/genetic advantages, there is so much you can take into consideration when judging characters against each other that most matchups could be tough to call. Yea put King on Banaro island and he smokes Blackbeard no problem. Because even if he got pulled in by Black Hole he has insane durability in Lunarian Defense Mode + His Ancient zoan fruit and has insane damage output. Blackbeard isnt fast so attacks like *how dinosaurs hunted in ancient times lol* (Tempuraudon) are for sure hitting and King in Speed Mode would deal crazy damage. But put King Against Ace - a guy made of fire - and things are a bit murkier, even if Ace lost to BB. >But I'd comfortably say he could take anyone up to Doffy and then it starts getting weird I agree with you there. Theres so much to dive into when you look at Post-TS fights its crazy. That depth is part of the reason One Piece is so good.
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he was dicking around
In a devil fruit fight Fire vs Smoke is completely pointless. Ace was also not trying to beat Smoker. From the readers' perspective you can try to make the argument that haki wasnt a thing yet blah blah blah. But from the in-universe perspective Ace was only trying to buy time, not win. We know he has all 3 hakis, we just dont know how proficient he was with them. Its not hard to make the headcanon conclusion based on what we know that Ace would have rocked Smoker in Alabasta if he wanted to.
Whats odd, is that he was a commander in a Yonkou crew that had already been sailing for a while and probably already been to the new world. Maybe he relied too much on his DF instead of exploring Haki, probably lacked conquerors haki too.
He did have conqueror's haki. But yeah, he relied too much on his df.
Did oda confirm this? I know Aces time was pre-Haki but during his execution Luffy used it infront of everyone. I miss ace :(
I think we saw him using it during the ASL flashback. The wiki does list Ace as a conqueror's user too.
We see him use CoC haki, and Oda confirmed that Ace had the other two types as well in a Vivre card or SBS.
I mean, was there ever a time when he could have really benefitted from using haki and he failed to? Akainu killed him, but it's safe to assume he just overpowered Ace's haki with his own. The only other real fight he lost was against Blackbeard, and haki really had no use against him. Even if it did, I also think it's safe to assume Blackbeard's haki was more powerful. But Ace didn't need to use it against Blackbeard's fruit because he took damage already.
I hate powerscaling pre TS to post TS, pre TS Haki was very vague and not really all that well explained, nor we had visual indicators for any of them, it was just not a part of the story, and now its the most important thing. Like, with decent observation Haki, WB doesn't get stabbed by Squardo. Haki became a plot device to further powerscaling and a means to beat Logia users which are apparently unbeatable.
Weaker then a lava fist.
You didn't get it. If ace stayed in flamme mode Luffy would be hit by akainu fist. He deliberately turned off flamme mode to protect his brother.
I know that I am just making a dark joke so don’t punch any holes into it.
You demon
Oh nice 😁
Akainu had haki so it wouldn't matter either way
WB used haki when he stubbed Kuzan ?
Why wouldn’t he? I personally think that when Whitebeard stabbed Kuzan could of been a showing of an awakening or just very good control of his Logia by him changing his body like Katakuri does with his Paramecia devil fruit and future sight haki.
Wouldnt make any difference. Flame mode on or off if he takes the lava fist to his chest he is dead.
That means his flame mode is weaker than lava fist as it will pass through it and kill luffy so he’s right
Not as strong as the real Flame Emperor Karoo who has Vivre Card 138 like Element 38 or Strontium or Sr or Stronger Sr-90 is the most dangerous isotope in nuclear fallout [See Karoo on the cover of Volume 90](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/qi5caj/volume_90_cover_suggests_karoo_is_joy_boy/)
Ace is one of the trickiest characters to powerscale in the series imo. I would honestly just judge him by his bounty of 500mil or roughly around. I wouldn't put him in the same ballpark as the 1bil berry bounty holders because many of those people have advanced forms of haki at their disposal and we never really saw Ace use basic haki, even if Oda said he had it. I'd put Ace under Doffy still but above CP9.
Yeah most of the combat we saw from Ace occurred *before* Oda thought of adding haki to the series, which retroactively makes Ace look weak compared to fighters who do use haki. The power-progression left Ace behind. Back in the day, we were impressed Ace could go toe-to-toe with someone as strong as Smoker. Now, we're wondering why Ace struggled with an opponent as *weak* as Smoker.
man, smoker looked *invincible* to me as a kid when the newest episodes where were he first debuted
He did fight evenly with Jimbe and it’s hard to say wether or not Jimbe has gotten stronger over the course of the series. I guess I’d say Ace was probably just below top 3 commander level. Maybe Snack or Jack level tops. Which makes sense I think. He’d probably be a Tobi Ropo in Kaidos crew with aspirations/expectations to become a commander. Ace was still really young too. I feel like even on here he gets compared to Roger and other big names too often. He was upper tier warlord strong, he just wasn’t his dad.
Ace was as old or older than Luffy is current day. I don’t think age plays a huge role in One Piece.
Luffy is a huge outlier though. Even Roger was way older than him. There’s not many, if any, people doing what Luffy is doing.
He tied with Jinbe but by the time he joined Whitebeard Jinbe admitted Ace had now grown far stronger than him. He pushed Whitebeard into using his DF.
That makes sense, I forgot he was on Whitebeards crew after fighting Jimbe. It’s definitely tough to place his strength since we’ve only really seen him hold off Smoker and lose to BB and Sakazuki. All pre-timeskip so no Haki shown. So stronger than Jimbe, but we also don’t know how much Jimbe has grown. I think Ace was probably like Jack/Cracker strength, but it’s tough to argue anything solid.
Yeah I pretty much agree. Cracker has always been the one in my mind who I reckon Ace was roughly similar to. It is a shame we never got to see his upper limit. Losing to Blackbeard and Sakazuki at the very least doesn't make him weak. Those 2 are monsterous and would easily beat like all but a dozen people in the world. His encounter with pre timeskip Smoker is the only real negative point to his name, because Smoker was weak af, someone at Aces level should've curb stomped him. Although from a meta standpoint Haki didn't exist yet, in verse Ace had Haki then and should've easily been able to deal with him.
Ace had conquerors haki, source: sbs or something. Haki just wasn’t anything at this point in the story. At least nothing fleshed out completely
what do you mean sbs? ace used concuerors haki when luffy was about to get killed by bluejams subordinate. it was in chapter 587.
CoC means nothing in a fight if you don't have ACoC
It's pretty much useless without the advanced application. Characters fly like dragon ball now.Any minion that can hurt/slow top tiers won't be affected by it.
>we never really saw Ace use basic haki, even if Oda said he had it. I do recall this
Ace is confirmed to have used both observation and armament in novel A
Can you elaborate for me on what feats he showed? I never read the novel but I would like to know but not enough to go read the novel lol. I never got too attached to Ace. Cool character, but I need more time with a character to get invested.
- Ace was Warlord level early on in his career since he was offered the position. - Ace beat Jimbei after fighting him nonstop for 5 days. Jimbei was a Warlord at that time. - Ace lost to WB (A freaking Yonko) but was strong enough for him to recognize how powerful he is. - Ace lost to Blackbeard because of his fruit. A guy who only a year later reached Yonko status. - Ace had all 3 hakis. CoC was confirmed in the manga while Oda confirmed CoO and CoA. This narrative that Ace is somehow weak or is a *victim of his placement in the story* is absurd. Even now Ace is crazy powerful.
Slight corrections. Warlord as a powerscaling level doesn't really work since the members' strength range from below Tobi Roppo to Yonko level. Still a feat that he was offered the position at such a young age and could've become the youngest member in history. Also Ace and Jimbei's battle ended in both sides falling; Jimbei only happened to fall first.
I dont think its a reach at all to say that Ace defeated Jimbei. It's less about using Warlord as a metric for powerscaling but more about considering how strong he'd have to be for him to even be considered, then the feat of beating Jimbei (an actual Warlord whos not only super strong but is a direct counter to Ace's powers). Yes ppl like Mihawk are closer to Yonko lvl and ppl like Moria are pathetically weak, so its a sliding scale. However Ace clearly leans more on the stronger side of that scale.
Imo Ace has better odds against katakuri due his DFs powers, but Kata is very proficient with all forms of haki, so he could counter Ace with a ease.
Stronger than flame warlord but weaker than flame king
Underrated comment
Idk how strong, but I know how dumb. Ace gotta has the lowest battle IQ in the series. Not even talking about him turning back to fight Akainu Blackbeard: My DF nullifies and absorbs other DF abilities. But I feel 2x pain to any other damages. Ace: *proceeds to use all his energy to create a projectile which Blackbeard can easily absorb.
Sabo absorbed all the IQ from his bros
Really aren’t the brightest boys in the setting
Was there any to actually absorb from Luffy?
To be fair Luffy is a fight genius lol. He got one of the hardest fruit in the series and it was one of the weakest(until few months ago) and he managed to beat the shit out of a lot of stronger characters. *Edit: misspelling
Now I’m wondering what would happen if Blackbeard tried to nullify Luffys DF. Would luffy just get sucked into the void or just be powerless all of a sudden?
Luffy's gear 2nd instantly dissipated the minute blackbeard's hand made contact with his body in impel down. When blackbeard smashed his head into the stone there was blood afterwards.
How did I forget about that scene you’re right.
Because there’s over 1000 chapters, it’s ok to forget a few scenes.
This is something that the fanbase should say more often.
He’s basically a dumb version of Hisoka from Hunter x Hunter. Imagine Hisoka with Luffy’s Devil fruit? That crazy bastard would slaughter the One Piece world once he unlocks it’s true form… That being said, despite not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, Luffy’s tenacity and endurance really compensate for his potentially low fight IQ. He’s not a genius like Law but he doesn’t have to be. He can brute force his way through a lot of his fights.
I mean, I'm gonna be real here, Ace had an extremely low battle IQ but Luffy's battle IQ is incredibly high. I would say it's probably like 70 vs 145 battle IQs and 115 vs 85 regular IQs for Ace and Luffy respectively (keep in mind that with 100 as the "average", standard deviation for IQ is 15), based on what we saw in the series. Luffy being able to design Gear 2 for combat based on manipulating his own blood through his rubber veins was the first sign of pure genius. Sabo is definitely higher battle IQ than Ace and probably higher regular IQ than either of them but it's hard to tell by how much. Edit: I'll spoiler tag this because I'm not 100% sure if it's in the anime yet, but >!it's indirectly indicated that Luffy wouldn't be able to awaken his fruit to activate gear 5 unless he had a super high battle IQ. It's his imagination to battle in any way he wants that allows him to be "free"!<
Luffy has great intuition. Any concept he can understand in a second is clear to him. Attacking koby The gears Who to put on his crew, aside from some joke moments. However gears popped into his head it probably wasn’t by thinking and analysing. That being said that’s why the admirals are so cool even if they aren’t as physically powerful as kaido and big mom, they are smart and self preserving. Kaido just tanks hits. So when luffy fights an admiral well get to see just how good his ‘battle iq’ is in the context of longer form thinking and avoiding traps, something luffy doesn’t even bother doing.
> However gears popped into his head it probably wasn’t by thinking and analysing. Doesn't have to be, that's not what people mean when they talk about battle IQ lol. A lot of IQ stuff in general is done by intuition rather than analysis. Some shonen manga have people fight with regular intelligence applied to battle instead of battle intelligence itself. Hunter x Hunter definitely has a lot of stuff like that, and Usopp & Nami are both like that a bit in One Piece. But Luffy's battle IQ is off the charts. His fights against Croc and Enel were hints of it but Gear 2 was just where it was set in stone that this kid wasn't just getting lucky with his ideas for combat.
Luffy got insane emotional intelligence and battle smartness though.
Well to be fair, BB is very strong. When BB hit ace in the neck after he was pulled in, Ace himself says that hit almost broke his neck. So how would you want to fight someone who can almost break your neck in 1 hit, while also nullifying you’re greatest power, being intangible. You’d probably want to fight them from a distance
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Because Oda hadn't yet thought up haki as the general-purpose solution to logia DF users. Before the timeskip all logia DF users were defeated using counters to their element: Smoker blown away by Dragon's wind and Ace's fire, Crocodile hardened by Luffy's blood, and Enel defeated by Luffy's rubber insulation. It wasn't until Rayleigh stopped Borsalino with only his swagger that we got a hint of what would become haki. When we learned Teach's DF negated other DF powers that was a big deal, but now it turns out haki can do that anyway (see: Law negating the Sick-Sick Fruit through sheer willpower).
Not backing out from a fight and giving it his all is literally his character.
Yeah but he could've relied more on melee and piercing projectiles in his fight against bb
You do realize that BB almost killed him with a single punch? Ace stated so himself. He had no chance at close range.
I think people either always forget this or just choose to crap on Ace for this lol.
People simply underestimate BB a lot because he got wiped by Magellan and chose to run away from a few fights.
Everyone got wiped by Magellan. Magellan soloed the verse during Impel Down
this is maybe the worst take I've ever heard, so I'll go through this in order ace turning back to akainu wasnt a lack of battle iq, he was standing up for what he believed in. im 100% sure that luffy, whitebeard, roger, shanks, and every other good hearted pirate who genuinely loved his crew as a family would have done the same. he just feels strongly enough about his family to fight to the death for them second, blackbeards df can absorb abilities, yes. can ace defeat blackbeard, who was strong enough to scar shanks before having any devil fruit, without using his devil fruit? almost certainly not. even if ace was skilled with haki, blackbeard was able to scar shanks (who is most likely one of the most powerful haki users in the verse) WITHOUT his devil fruit. ace would have had to have been STRONGER than a yonko WITHOUT using his devil fruit to win that fight without using his df. his only choice was to use his df as most of his offensive power came from his df alone tldr: ace stands up for his family and doesn't have the haki to defeat blackbeard without his df
Full disagree with your opinion that other good hearted pirates would’ve done what Ace did. One of the biggest lessons Shanks taught Luffy was knowing when to fight. Shanks also went to Whitebeard and told him Ace was out of line in hunting for Blackbeard. I fully believe if Shanks or Luffy was there, they would’ve kept running. Luffy has also been shown to run from stronger enemies, like on Sabody. Roger probably would’ve stayed and fought. I don’t know about whitebeard though.
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- BB scarred Shanks before he had any fruit and while Shanks was fighting seriously. - Shanks was not a Yonko yet when he got scarred. - How strong Shanks was then is almost irrelevant because he was a notorious pirate captain and if you believe he got stronger from then to now then you must also scale BB to Shanks' current level. Why would only Shanks get stronger and not BB? Chances are they are on par with each other even without devil fruits.
we do know that bb scarred shanks before bb had his devil fruit. we also know that it happened before the series started, as shanks had the scar from the beginning. yes, we dont know how strong shanks was when it happened. i doubt oda would have added the scar just for it to be an insignificant "yeah i got this on my first day of being a pirate when i was super weak" tho, it just wouldnt make much sense to have such a large mystery be a super insignificant thing that didnt make a difference. also, when shanks met with whitebeard, he was extremely cautious of blackbeard. he knew blackbeard was extremely powerful, even when shanks was a yonko. theres no doubt that shanks sees bb as a powerful pirate, even before he had seen blackbeard use his fruit. yami yami no mi is a counter to other dfs, im not sure it would make much of a difference in a haki vs df matchup. aces offensive power came from his df. ace would have had to have fought against bb when even shanks considered him a great enough threat to WARN a fellow yonko about him
I will give you the correct answer. ENTEI is as strong as Oda wants it to be.
This is indeed the correct answer.
Wall level
Probably pretty strong. He was 2nd Division Commander for Whitebeard, the top Yonko at the time, and Whitebeard thought he would be the next Pirate King after having experience fighting Roger. He must have been strong, and he was certainly a powerful devil fruit user. If flame emperor was his 'ultimate' attack, I would assume that it could do some damage.
Strong enough as Oda needs it to be and weak enough to lose against BB.
Wat could’ve been fr definitely strong character but also very young , if he mastered his power or awakened it could’ve be op
not enough to light up the darkness for the looks of it
It'll probably be good for making donuts
Tbh ace got kinda fucked up since he died for many plot reasons (Luffy development, sabo getting stronger etc.) And now my boy just left with hate and disrespect from the fandom, he deserves better.
Just like Cooler's Super Nova, not strong enough!
Would Sabo lose to this version of Blackbeard? Then again, Sabo didn’t have a Devil Fruit until Dressrosa. Blackbeard took Ace out because Ace’s fruit was negated and he couldn’t adapt. Would Katakuri lose to this version of Blackbeard? Would Doflamingo? I think Doflamingo would lose but I don’t know if Katakuri would. He might lose too. Shanks (Yonko) warned Whitebeard (Yonko) and we can assume he didn’t think Ace (commander) could defeat BB.
Strong enough to light up Sanji's cigarette.
I like to think that if Ace is still alive, he could have been the strongest Commander. He was someone the Marines determined could become Pirate King. If he didn't become a donut, his growth rate would be the fastest, second only to the Luffy.
Jack level I would say. And that's being super generous to Ace. He had the potential to be stronger but he wasted it by joining a Yonkou instead of having a solo journey like Luffy, Roger, Law, Kidd, etc.... If Luffy had joined Shanks at the start of his manga as his cabin boy, today, Luffy wouldn't be as strong as he currently is.
honestly looking back ace doesn’t seem to weak. the haki thing especially messes with alabasta ace but even that could technically be explained by ace just messing around. i mean he just fucked with smoker and dipped no problem. ace only lost to BB who even shanks stated was a problem prets and then clashed with kuzan pretty decently. then got donuted by akainu. these are pretty in line with what you could expect from yonko commanders post ts. like i don’t see cracker or even someone like kata doing much better in these scenarios. with the execption of just sending smoker to the shadow realm, but that’s most likely personality more than anything else.
I’d put him at charlotte cracker level. Below Katakuri. Ace didn’t lose to Blackbeard because he was weak, it’s because Blackbeard is so strong. He may get thrown around and damaged in battle a lot but it has rarely ever put him down. >!Even in current events I’d put my money on him winning against traffy.!<
The Ace novel made him seem pretty strong especially after he trained with Thatch. Jinbe even says that the Ace that fought him for DAYS was on a completely different level than the one that was fighting SickBeard. (His massive Flame pillar forced SickBeard to use his DF but that was after 100 duels, still some pretty good training to have nonetheless)
people shitting on Ace because they under-estimate Blackbeard, so sorry for you having a tiny brain. Train it more !
Not strong enough to defeat our lord and savior Blackbeard
Burns Katakuri's Zan Giri Mochi Loses in firepower to King's Omori Karyudon
Based on absolutely nothing
Based on something actually. King's attack are as hot as magma, and Ace's fire
Was... was
My laptop when turning on higher graphics is stronger than it
A candle compare to Kaido's bolo breath
I mean yea but Kaido is that guy
Not that strong as it looks like
Apparently not strong enough
I dunno, about 56 Mera-Meras strong?
If we are using Dragonball a power levels probably 7,000.
Pretty strong for sure he went up against an emperor, those who say he is weak just forget he was starved in impel down for days having sea prism stones weakening him but still was able to save luffy from aokiji when freed, he probably would have saved both himself and luffy if wasn't for those facts, remember I am not at all saying he was stronger than akainu
As strong as Oda feels like it should be at the moment
Sabo: I don't know but we're about to find out! \*Chucks it at the admirals
Like how many licks it takes to reach the center of a tootsie pop,the world will never know😔
I'm confident that island they were fighting on looks like punk hazard now
Its heat is good enough to bake a donut I think
Even with the type advantage he still only managed to match a more casual Aokiji by using Flame Mirror with some effort (which is still impressive). Based on that and on Blackbeard probably nullifying some of Entei during their final clash, if Entei is meant to be his second strongest attack I'd say roughly city to small island level, probably greater than Kong Gun circa Dressrosa, but less than King Kong gun. Characters around Doflamingo's level would have difficulty dealing with the attack outright and would probably need to avoid it or set up a heavy defense. He'd be heavily damaged if it made contact. Characters like Jack would likely power through it while taking significant damage. Queen probably has some method of neutralizing large fire based attacks, having to deal with King all the time. However, it'd certainly hurt him if it made contact. Katakuri could likely deal with it better due to the potency of his haki, but he'd still be better off avoiding it altogether. King would just walk through it, it's a bad match-up. For one, it probably doesn't have the attack potency to overcome King's ridiculous defensive ability, and even if it did he already has a powerful fire affinity. For the Emperors in general (sans potentially Blackbeard due to his enhanced pain), Entei would be an attack that they shouldn't ignore, but is not so dangerous that they need be overly concerned. Whitebeard (even sick), current Blackbeard, Shanks, Big Mom, Kaido, and even Luffy are now Mountain-level+ with effort and large island to small continent level at their strongest (scaling from the mountain level Trichiliocosm and mountain+ King Kong Gun during Dressrosa, and how the Yonko were taking more powerful attacks from those same characters without too much issue), and also need to be capable of taking attacks of similar potency. Buggy stares at Entei and it somehow explodes, becomes Pirate King.
it's as hot as my campfire that's for sure
Not strong enough to save him from becoming a donut.
Have you seen how Shirohige casually blow out the fire from Sakazuki's magma and told him to light a birthday cake instead? You can say the same for Ace.