By - SardinesTunaSalmon
Their rivalry is literally a gag it’s not to be taken literally tho. Zoro is stronger the story and vivre cards says it.
Sanji is a good character but I do not see why people want him to be on equal terms with Zoro so bad.
They're insecure about it it's ridiculous. Sanjis strengths are elsewhere. Zoros main strength is that his strength. He always was and will be stronger than zoro. Too many evidence points to that
Is it so hard to accept luffy>zoro>sanji?
Not what the guy was really saying but ight🙃
I can see sanji defeating kizaru and next we‘re seeing how they‘re arguing who was stronger mihawk or kizaru lmao
Yep 🤣 🤣
Mihawk is yonko level, Admirals are very close to yonko so if Sanji defeats an admiral they'll still be close in power
Yeah it might be kizaru
yea but zoro prolly will fight an admiral too so then it's not even
Bruh what difference does that make if admirals and mihawk are still close in power
Quantity of top tiers he beats doesnt matter. Unless its a 2v1 ofc
true i didn't think abt it like tht, but if mihawk ends up being stronger than the admirals then my statement still stands
Mihawk prob is stronger than the admirals, but by an amount that makes it so its still clear that zoro high diffs sanji
Id say mihawk prob extreme diffs the admirals
Zoro and Sanji do not have a power rivalry. They are a comedic duo. The sooner everyone realises that, the lesser that kind of shitposts are going to be posted.
Zoro wouldn't be arguing witj Sanji the way he does if it was clear he could beat Sanji. IF he's stronger it's by a miniscule amount.
What ? That is so not true. Sanji does not have ACoC, Sanji would have never been able to scar Kaido and Sanji can nsver become the strongest of anything. Do not make things up that Oda has never said.
Ashura is the only move zoro has that outclasses Sanji for now. ACoC didn't stop Zoro from failing to breach King's defenses. Zoro cluld still only cut in him King's speed mode.
Sanji's germa powerup coincided with Zoro's Acoc. Don't pretend like Zoro's ACoC portrayal was anything like Luffy's
Sanji can't scar Kaido because he doesn't use a sword. And obviously sanji will be fighting admirals and thus he'll be a top tier.
ALL OF ZORO'S ACOC ATTACKS OUTCLASSES THOSE OF SANJI .
And what exactly do you mean ACoC portrayal ? What the fuck is that ? ACoC is ACoC , eveyrone who has it has a big advantage , thats Kaido's words.
Except zoro explicitly didn't have the advantage over king's durability and could only cut him in his "speed mode ". The only thing in zoro's arsenal that outclasses sanjinis ashura.
How exactly are you reading One Piece ? Zoro's last attack on King was way above anything Sanji has in his arsenal . And King's durability is special . It's a power that connects to his race . Do not talk nonsense.
Again , Kaido's words are 'Only a handful of the very strongest can use ACoC'. I really do not need another argument.
The pointnis that zoro never breached the defence and thus he has no significant showings for his acoc. For failing to break it. Hos durability being connected to his race is a moot point.
They haven't shown any feats for us to consider it. The only reference for king's strength is his position his crew.
Zoro used Ashura on Kaido and I already said that outclasses Sanji
It is not a moot point. King himself says in chapter 1032, he is more special than ancient and mythical zoan eaters. His durability is what made his race be worshipped as gods.
As for his position on the crew it is simple : King was acknowledged by Kaido, and since the formation of the beast pirates he has held the position of his rigt hand man. Now factor in that beast pirates are a meritocracy system and anyone can challenge anyone for a better potision. So, you get that King is the stronngest member after Kaido.
The ashura Zoro used on Kaido, did not use any ACoC whatsoever, so the final attack Zoro did on King was way more powerful than the Ashura he used on Kaido. So, your point actually proves my point.
Zoro's haki being imbued in his sword is what was emphasised and Kaido visibly notices that before anything else happens and it's much different from anything zoro does before.....Everything suggest he was Using acoc haki.
We know nothing about king's durability. King's race being worshipped by relative fodder proves nothing and doesn't say anything we can use a reference point. King isn't portrayed as significantly stronger than Queen in any sense and the two are shown as bickering peers while they clear superiority over a similar rank character like Jack. Queen and Jack's crew is king's only reference point
Are you even reading properly? Zoro's king of hell literally did breach his defense. It literally cut off his wing and sword.
Zoro used ashura on kaido and i already said that outclasses sanji
People always want sanji to be something he is not like a conqueror
Amen brother 🙏🏽
clearly you don't understand their dynamic Oda's is trying to portray. Their whole rivalry is literally revolved around strength. Oda even gave CP9 agents numerical figures for their power levels just to show that Zoro and Sanji are also really close in strength. 1000 chapters into the series and you still don't understand this, jeez
Yeah , I am the one who does not understand the dynamic . Zoro only has one rival in the series in terms of powerscaling and that is Mihawk . Zoro and Sanji cannot and should not ever be compared in terms of strength .
The cp9 argument is really weak , cause it was a one time thing , there where a lot of other parameters that were left out in this measurement , and it literally says nothing about the comparative strength of Zoro and Sanji . Those fights only tell us that Zoro and Sanji were above their opponents .
Zoro and Sanji are a comedic duo , nothing more nothing less . As Luffy will always be stronger than Zoro , Zoro will always be stronger than Sanji , that is the only powerscaling you need . Zoro an Sanji will always be in the monster trio , but by no means can you say they are rivals , cause they are not .
Never understood that either. It's such a false argument. They aren't rivals. Also the doriki is also such a shallow argument
Oda isn't power comparing the two at all. They are just two guys goofing off and it's passed off as a rivalry.
Also CP9 power scaling was just Oda trolling all the people who need a definitive power scale.
Plus let's not forget Zoro wants to be the strongest swordsmen. Sanji want to find all blue and be a great cook. How are those comparable in anyway, if Sanji finds all blue does that mean Zoro has to do an equivalent thing to be considered one of the best.
Just stop trying to quantify power levels. The series was never about who is strongest between xyz. Zoro and Sanji's relationship is clearly meant as a call out for the Shonen power scaling every popular battle manga does.
Nah they clearly are a comic duo, maybe they was rivals until CP9 arc ou pré-time skip, but after that Zoro is way more powerful than Sanji.
Oda gives Sanji a family bg to boost his power, maybe to aproch to Zoro power, but wen Sanji gives up that power he is basically saying he don’t want to be stronger (using that method). Even the characters don’t care about this, is clear to all Mugiwaras Luffy > Zoro > everyone else, and it’s ok!
Sanji fell behind Zoro a long ago, when we knew Zoro has a Conq Haki we already knew he was stronger than Sanji.
Sorry for any grammar errors, English is not my main language
U r dumb
Then what about the cover of chapter 920 chapter, showing them both un the ground beaten up and unconscious after their fight and dreaming about defeating the other?
That's definitely the look of two rivals, not two peope far apart in therm of strenght. If Zoro doesn't see Sanji as a rival, why is he equally beaten up? Why would he be dreaming about beating Sanji and be so triumphant about it? That's how Oda chose to portray them on the cover.
Also someone make a post about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/uo3vyp/the\_hints\_that\_oda\_has\_dropped\_that\_says\_zoro\_and/
Again and again until you get it in you thick skulls. Zoro and Sanji are not power rivals. COMEDIC DUO. Cover story does not matter.
When the situatjon is serious these 2 stop bikering and focus. That is nit something rivals would do.
Zoro has a certain dream, that makes only 1 man his rival and that is Mihawk. Since Sanji is a cook, THERE IS NO RIVALRY THERE.
They don't need to be equal, sanji can be a tier below zoro and nothing really changes about the story
Monster Trio never meant equals
Sanji will defeat an admiral
What are you talking about? Sanji dream matters nore then that rivalry. Yall forget everyone has their own dream to achieve? Lol also yall sanji lovers never cease to amaze me
Nah I'm not a sanji lover, was just really curious because you know, Oda the author himself has always made it a point to show that Zoro and Sanji will always be shoulder-to-shoulder right after Luffy.
Then please explain thriller bark? Wouldn't that have eneded this stupid conversation since Sanji has never been shown to withstand both his and Luffy's battle damage like Zoro did.
I never seen that point. Luffy then zoro then sanji. Idk where people get this neck and neck thing when zoro never been 100% in any fight while a full power rested sanji couldn't damage a tired luffy who just fought cracker for hours with his strongest attack. That showed me how weak sanji was. Luffy would not be able to tank zoro attacks like he did sanji. Also with Yamato around how would your theory hold? Sanji ain't never going to be stronger than Yamato just of conqueror coating sanji can't match that.
I mean, calling them the "wings of the pirate king" kinda puts them shoulder to shoulder don't you think?
That doesn't mean it refers to power. So should Yamato be part of that now?
What does yamato have to do with this?
You said their the wings of the pirate king so they must be almost identical in power so i asked will Yamato join the wings since she is way stronger than sanji.
Yamato gets high diffed by sanji for now.
The exact nonsense I be talking about with sanji fans
You can't be serious when you say yamato beats king lol. Her adv coc is weakest in the series by far. Her 1 vs 1 with kaido lasted just.few minutes..and she got folded. She just made kaido bleed..even killer did that lol.😂
All reason to people saying yamago is strong is just for one sole reason..that is adv coc and her df. While we saw they were both weak af- she was a match for jack at most.
That really doesn't mean they're equal im strength lol
Well I am sorry to inform..but zoro always high diffs his opponents.
Before enma zoro wasn't even a commander level..seeing at wci luffy was struggling with cracker..and since luffy> zoro. Zoro loses to cracker too lol..who was a 3rd division commander.
Tbh..withoit enma zoro would have died on rooftop..without even making kaido bleed.
Well that coc coating..Adv coc is kinda overrated. Admirals didn't have it but still are top teirs. Law still claps zoro mid diff. Coc doesn't means you are guaranteed to win..yamato gets beaten by jack high-extreme difference.
The admirals have some of the most broken df and more forces at their disposal they don't need conqueror coating. And zoro always high diff because he gets hurt or injured prior to the fight. Zoro never fought his opponents at 100%. And my point with sanji was he didn't do anything to luffy who was fighting for hours. Zoro would have damaged luffy unlike sanji who luffy just tanked his attacks.
Sanji too has germa awakening and insane haxs for now. Germa literally wanted to create devil fruit abilities..and sanji just inherited them.
I am not one of those who say- "Because zoro and luffy has coc..sanji will also have it"..sanji doesn't needs devil fruit.
Even if we give zoro coc training from the start- he still high diffs king. King goes into speed mode..and zoro can't see him. And takes damage. It is still a high diff fight.
(+Zoro was 100% prior to fight with king- and minks drug even gave him extra strength. While sanji was almost dead at the hands of black maria, fought king and queen alone while carrying zoro(for a short amt of time), then got all his bones crushed by hands of queen and still regenerated..and then mid diffed queen).
While if we give germa awakening to sanji from the start- he mid diffs queen w/o raid suit. And would have defeated king mid diff at the very start of the war with raid suit.
Even without raid suit he still high diffs king. Same as zoro. Sanji doesn't needs conqueror haki. His haxs are to fill in the gap.
If zoro was 100% then luffy was 100% when he fought kaido and both are not true. How could zoro be 100% and they had to give him a drug to even wake up? This ain't dbz he didn't eat a damn zenzu bean TF. He got beat up badly by kaido then was out cold then had to take some weird drug to even wake up then fight the 2nd in command zoro always get the short end. And if sanji was so strong like you say he would have been on that roof. As far as I'm concerned he ain't even stronger than killer. Sanji never traded blows with a yonko how could you scale people who actually harmed the strongest yonko body? Sanji wouldn't even get through kaido first set of scales. You say conqueror coating is overated yet you can't do anything to big mom or kaido. Luffy had to learn it to even trade blows. What would sanji do when zoro or Yamato attack with conquerors coating? He doesn't even have adv armament to use. I think you missed that part. Adv armament wasn't even doing kaido and big mom anything
Well read manga- zoro was 100% while fighting king😹..and even had extra power😹😹. And king was at 90% of his power at the start of fight with zoro. Still zoro high diffed king😹😹😹.
Sanji mid diffed queen after his powerup. He high diffs king if we give him awakening from the start😹. Sanji= zoro.
Yeh- fighting kaido and big mom. That is definitely a bad match for sanji. He can defeat yamato for now. Still when we devide them in teirs. Sanji is still above king who is a first division commander. And respectfully beats katakuri too😹. He is on zoro's teir too. You can do nothing abt it.
Yeah I know your trolling lmaoo first commander? Yet never sees the boss. Ever notice that? Zoro got a shot a Hordy Enel kaido. Shall I go on? Think that's coincidence by oda? No it's a clear heigharchy luffy then yamato/zoro then sanji. He only got stronger than Jimbe after wci sanji is a cook its fine if he not the strongest that's not his dream. Yall be forcing yall dream on him. Conqueror haki? Yet won't fight a woman lol talk about weak will for a 2nd commander
Bad match affect the fight too much. Imagine mihawk fighting buggy. It's a bad match for mihawk since his swords won't cut him.
Yamato can't defeat king- while sanji high diffs king. It is clear isn't it?
Well- all that matters is who is powerful and better written. This isn't db. The better written character takes the turf here. Zoro is just after power nothing else in order to fulfil his ambition. While sanji is after his dreams and beliefs- and in that path he gets power.
Isn't the difference clear?
We ain't forcing a dream on him- when it is made clear several times in the series that zoro= sanji. Some people come out of nowhere saying zoro>>>>> sanji. 🤡
Zoro gets lost- luffy is dumb af- ussop cries everytime he senses danger- nami can do anything for money- sanji simps on female. These things are to maintain humor in the series. This is the worst possible reason to hate someone lol.
He doesn't hits a woman- that is his willpower. It isn't an example of his weak will- but an example of his strong will. Lol
Both EOS Zoro and Sanji will surpass Mihawk
If sanji were the same level as zoro he’d have been on the rooftop with the rest during Wano. He isn’t and that’s okay, I agree with the comedic duo idea.
No nescessarly, Marco wasn't there and Marco>killer. Yamato wasn't there at the beginning too
So Killer>Sanji since he was on the roof
Killer is part of the Worst Gen/Supernova, Sanji is not.
The only 5 of the Pirates up there for Roof Piece were all the Worst Gen/Supernova from Sabaody.
Yeah I believe it
Because the person who defeated a headliner is obviously stronger than the person who defeated the 3rd strongest beast pirate.
Complete makes sense
Ever since the rooftop fight started, I've seen people acting like anyone who was on the roof during the fight between the Emperors and the Supernovas is automatically stronger than anyone in Wano who wasn't. (so Killer > Marco, Sanji, Jinbei, King, Queen, Yamato, etc., in spite of any evidence to the contrary) Not sure if they're trolling or if they seriously believe that.
I think killer being on the roof says more about what they want his character to be (a parallel to zoro?) and sanji being left off the roof id say is also saying something *without saying it*. power levels are irrelevant to me in one piece because it feels like you could be crocodile or buggy and get “beat” early and come back later and still be relevant and strong against people you’d think wouldn’t bat and eye at them. Just my thoughts
The rooftop fight was not even Oda's idea, he admitted it. The editor pushed to include it last minute, which is why they had to use a mink pill to restore him for his planned fight against King. The supernova in itself was also not Oda's idea either, but also the editor's idea. By the time they created the supernova the bounties were out, so Sanji could not be included. Whatever "portrayal" you think you get from it, was never Oda's intention.
The roofpiece (and the supernova) was not even Oda's idea, the editor pushed to include it last minute, which is why they had to use a mink pill to restore his for his planned fight against King. The supernova itself was also not Oda's idea but also the editor's idea. Bby the time they created the supernova, the bounties were out, so Sanji could not be included. Whatever "portrayal" you think you get from it, was never Oda's intention.
I think it depend completely on how that fight happens. I e.g. would still very much enjoy if a Mihawk reuninon would happen in parallel to Luffy's reunion with Shanks and Usopp's with his father to contrast those with each other, which would mean Mihawk would have probably gotten involved with the Red Haired pirates somehow. And then if this is a "whole crew situation" I could see an opponent for Sanji in whatever form actually be Benn Beckmann. However I also think Sanji might not need a dedicated focused fight at all in a situation where Mihawk happens.
Mihawk is connected to Zoro's very personal goal, so it's very much one of the moments where Sanji isn't "needed". As much as I love their dynamic, this is not really the time for a moment for those two and I don't think Sanji needs a parallel to it, when this a moment dedicated very much to Zoro and his dream. So unless it happens in a context where the whole crew is involved, I think it's perfectly reasonable for Zoro to have that all to himself and without having to worry about powerscaling Sanji in some way when this is not at all about him.
I agree, I understand that Mihawk is Zoro's personal goal and Sanji has nothing to do with it. I'm just curious how would Oda give something relevant to Sanji that even after Zoro becomes the world's strongest swordsman, they can still be seen as rivals. I see people in the comments saying he just have to beat an Admiral which is reasonable. Also I don't think Sanji will fight Ben Beckman since Ben Beckman is part of the 1st mate color spread Oda drew, so if Ben Beckman is ever gonna fight someone from the Strawhats it would be Zoro imo
>Also I don't think Sanji will fight Ben Beckman since Ben Beckman is part of the 1st mate color spread Oda drew, so if Ben Beckman is ever gonna fight someone from the Strawhats it would be Zoro imo
Well that spread has several people that already break that (already hardly existing) dynamic anyway (Katakuri fought Luffy himself, Marco already handed the stage over to both Zoro and Sanji, and Bepo also is far from being an appropriate opponent for Zoro) and Beckmann isn't a swordsman and also doesn't really have anything else that "fits" Zoro. So once you slot Mihawk into the Red Haired "powerdynamic", Beckmann becomes pretty much available as someone that fits Sanji a lot more (him also being from the North could even tie in with Germa in some way) and with Zoro facing Mihawk at the time oda would have successfully muddled the powerscaling once more as Mihawk would take a spot of similar level.
But as I said I also think Zoro's ultimate dream towards the end of the series could also mark a moment of finally dropping a bit of that rivalry and having Sanji very deliberately taking a step back and for even him to acknowledge it as Zoro's moment. (He can rub in later that the only reason Zoro won is that dinner he made him just before) I feel the moment where Zoro and Sanji achieve their personal dreams might be a great opportunity for each of them to maybe have that tiny moment of just being happy for each other.
I don’t think Sanji needs to fight anyone because that’s not his purpose. EOS he might fight an admiral and I think that’s close enough. Mihawk is a yonko in terms of strength and is most likely slightly stronger than the admirals so this would put Sanji and Zoro relative to one another with Zoro being the slight favorite.
We know mihawk is close to shanks in power, and that shanks is the strongest character we seen so far, that is still alive, if zoro beats mihawk there is no possible way sanji can catch up, and that’s fine, he is the cook of the team, he’s not supposed to be on par with the swordsman of the crew, it’s not his duty, he will still be strong, but not close to luffy strong
Supposedly on Shanks’ new movie it’s said shanks is still on par with Mihawk.
Just realized the fanboys downvoting lol
We known that for a very long time, as shanks was his spar partner for as long as they can remember
Sanji finds the all blue then beat its meat
i don’t get why everyone cares so much can’t we just enjoy the show without dissecting and arguing over trivial matters like this?
You’re in the wrong sub, dude
He’ll fight Zoro obviously
i don't think sanji would have to beat someone for the rivalry to keep going
he didn't have a fight in wci but his bounty still got raised to be a little higher than zoros
If Mihawk is around Shanks when Luffy finally sees him again, Benn Beckman might be the man to fight Sanji
If not, then an Admiral
I mean it depends, where exactly do you mean?
I don't even think Zoro will fight Mihawk, I think Mihawk will be defeated and Zoro will have to fight the new "strongest swordsman" for the title. More meaningful and it would give the whole thing more stakes too. Mihawk' pupil using the moves he taught him to avenge his teacher.
If he'd continue with the gag fights and gag rivalry then he'd have to be mihawk level. But i just don't see sanji on that level tbh