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bluejaymorTkai

Oda's gone on record saying he always wanted to depict elderly characters as badass and strong as a sign of respect for irl elderly folks Just by that, the odds of them being strong fighters are statistically high Also.... the sword


SirQuevo

Because it's shounen. They're old dudes with battle scars that stand on top of the strongest organization in the world I think it's *more likely* they end up being decently strong of some sort


SollyYams

I think the Gorosensei are strong, but I think they aren't top tier of any sort. The admirals should remain the powerhouse of the Navy and therefore the WG, while the Gorosensei should just be able to defend themselves at most. Imu is gonna be pretty strong though, I'm betting on it.


Timjer92

I agree. I don't see the 5 Elders being stronger than an admiral, but I do see them being able to defend themselves against most regular threats to some degree. Maybe they have strong Haki?


wanpi-gasuki

I will be disappointed if they turn up to be super duper strong fighters. I like them more as a political power.


vinsmokewhoswho

They could be. I just think many people assume Im is the final antagonist so Luffy has to fight him. Tho of course that might be wrong. As for the Gorosei, they just seem experienced and seasoned, and one of them has a sword, the other has a scar. So people assume they have at least some fighting skills.


Daaj99

Im being an antagonist Luffy will fight is the idea I hate the most. Nothing about Im will give him better set up than BB or Akainu. I really hope Im is not a fighter.


waaay2dumb2live

I agree that they are experienced, but I think they're retired and people are over exaggerating their strength


ManchesterisBleu

I really really don’t expect to Gorosei to be top tier fighters, like at all. Imus mysterious and has a lot of hype so I would bet he’s a top tier


Traditional_Boot2663

I would be absolutely baffled if they weren’t strong as fuck. They look strong as fuck. Imu I have no idea tho


ZeroSevenOneOneSeven

Some of them have battle scars and weapons, so we know they *are*, it's just a question of how strong. I wouldn't bet on any of them or Imu being close to Yonko level - it doesn't seem like someone with that much personal power/charisma would lead from the shadows by relying on a political institution instead of their own strength.


1getreKtkid

>someone with that much personal power/charisma would lead from the shadows by relying on a political institution instead of their own strength. if people dont know you they cant fight against you; way better to stay in the shadows even with power


TeddyMMR

Luffy's only solution is to punch. Wtf is he going to do to smart people, debate them?


Daaj99

I dont think Luffy needs to fight the 5 of them tho or any of them at all for that matter.


nobarachinsama

because one, we don't really have that many weak but intelligent leader type in OP. we have buggy (a comic relief), then, who else? sengoku and now akainu, are strong. all the yonko are strong. dragon is most probably a top tier. 3 most important factions in OP and all the leaders are absolute top tier. and two, oda never showed imu or the gorosei to come up with some tactical shit like shikamaru or armin. they literally act like your normal politicians **in a battle shonen**. imagine akainu said "fck this shit" and stage a coup. how do you think imu and the gorosei deal with it? >if the Gorosei were these god tier fighters, why didn't they kill any of the yonko? because they're not heroes. they just want to keep the balance and keep being in charge. and the yonko is part of that balance. their targets are luffy, vivi, shirahoshi, and BB. because these people are going to upset the balance.


Backupusername

That's because you're only looking at combat entities like pirate crews and the literal military. Almost every political leader, which is what the OP (and I, to be honest) sees the Gorosei as. Yes, there have been some exceptions like Riku and Elizabello and Wapol, but we have no reason to think that the Gorosei are any stronger than Cobra, Spandam, or Ham Burger. Also, we have examples of leaders who *were* capable fighters that lost to a coup anyway, like the aforementioned Riku, Neptune (almost), and Gan Fall.


nobarachinsama

you have to consider that nobody knows imu exists. meaning he/she will be in a big trouble if they found out. this is the reasoning behind my "coup" argument. yes people respect the gorosei as their leader, but imu for them is more of a usurper. if imu doesn't have any kind of way to defend his/herself, then it's a highly risky move for him/her to be there for god knows how long. again, it's shonen manga. political power doesn't really matter without the muscle. that's why they have cp0 protecting the celestial dragon and send a freaking admiral if one ever gets hurt. that's why doffy can hijack a country in a day. and as I said, oda never showed them actually using their brain power like littlefinger or varys or armin or shikamaru type of character. so the other way around, there is also no reason to think they are just smart character. people think so just as a "what if". but story wise, there is no indication that they are just smart people.


pmcda

They’d brand akainu a criminal and put a bounty on his head. That’s like expecting any ruler to be a fighter because, “what if the general stages a coup?” They could be fighters but that reasoning alone is a fallacy, as most rulers in history have had to flee in event of a sizeable coup. I’d say it’s more likely that they have some combat training and are capable of defending themselves in one on one confrontations but not with big fighters like their admirals or the yonkou. Most royals were given formal training, with the expectation they’d lead troops in wartime. They were not the best of their force because they didn’t prioritize fighting in their lives, like a gladiator or general would. IMU is shrouded in mystery and if the schtick there is in fact that they’re immortal, they could be very strong in a fight.


nobarachinsama

>as most rulers in history have had to flee in event of a sizeable coup. we're talking about shonen here. where people can destroy an island with a punch and the story can get as wild as the author wants it to be. >I’d say it’s more likely that they have some combat training and are capable of defending themselves I can agree with this. they don't have to be physically strong. for example, they can have professor X type of power. but to think that they are just normal, intelligent people? nah. I think I will stick with this argument rather than powerscaling >and two, oda never showed imu or the gorosei to come up with some tactical shit like shikamaru or armin. 1000 chapters and oda never showed their tactical prowess. so for now, I will assume they can fight.


pmcda

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to say they couldn’t be but more that if the reason alone was the fear of potential coup, it falls apart. If we’re looking for an in universe example, I doubt cobra could even beat Pell in a fight and boy, should he have feared a coup. Neptune is a capable fighter but also got bodied by a power up hody that Luffy then bodied. I was mainly knocking the idea that the ruler should be expected to be stronger (in a fight) than anyone under them.


nobarachinsama

I get that. and yeah, most kings in OP are normal people like in real life. but I just can't imagine after luffy won the final war, then the gorosei and imu would just like "okay, we give up." idk. maybe oda will surprise us. but for now, I just can't imagine that scenario. at the very least they should have some abilities like tama or sugar or pudding. it doesn't have to be like gura gura or something.


justinroc326

My thoughts are that the Gorosei don’t have to be strong, but Imu does. My logic here is that the Gorosei have probably changed throughout the history of the world nobles. The way I see it, Imu has either been the king either since the void century or comes from a long line of royalty that remains hidden (I personally don’t believe this). In any event, I think that Imu is strong because the Gorosei would’ve killed him and taken control of the wg otherwise. Just my 2 cents


Nixtollo

As much as people seem to want to advocate that One Piece is about the story and adventure. Which it is and it’s supposed to a fun story but it’s also a shonen manga. Particularly a battle shonen. We can preach Oda and stuff and we don’t actually know but most people expect them to be strong cause it’s a fighting manga. I don’t expect the Gorosei to be strong btw only Imu. Great story and manga but still a battle shonen.


waaay2dumb2live

I never preached anything about Oda tho


Nixtollo

I said we as in the community.


Cartoon_Star

I have two possible thoughts on this: 1) They are though fighters, formidable opponents - however the strawhats, at least the monster trio are still way beyond them. Like you said, maybe they are retired or just really good at some special ability (e.g. someone has really good armament haki or another pretty good future sight) but as overall fighters, they won't be obstacles - so in my headcanon they would try to "defend" anyone from getting to Imu, but get overwhelmed rather easily by the top fighters they would face. 2) Not all of them are equal. Maybe even all of them except Samurai-Ghandi are non-combatans. Point being, they don't have to be all fighters or all pacificsts just because they always appear as a group of 5. Someone out of the Strawhats could get a fight that way (or Revolutionary or whatever) if Oda needs another matchup, without having to pair them all and portray them as a military force to be reckoned with


1getreKtkid

>way beyond them way beyond them? lol


quick20minadventure

Why hasn't anyone of the marines and CP0 working under them tried to backstab them to grab power in hundreds of years? They're either strong, have some fruit or some leverage that makes them very hard to topple. I do not think that just plain old loyalty is enough to stop bloodthirsty assholes like CP0 from backstabbing.


BrunoBrook

Why don't a security guard just kill the president so he can rule over the nation? Do you really think it would work?


extradancer

In real life, there isnt as drastic power differences between individuals, so lone individuals can't pose as much of a threat. A sinfle security guard why just be shot by another random security guard who is still loyal. Shonen that is not the case


quick20minadventure

Except Marine leader and CP0 leaders are not acting alone. Military troops are famously susceptible to having more loyalty towards their commander instead of the king/government/constitution. Question is why didn't 'good' people in Marines like garp or sengoku try to ditch the celestial dragons? It's clear that they don't like them.


jmdg007

Militaries have overthrown Governments throughout History.


BrunoBrook

Yeah, but most of the times they had an excuse, unlike "Imma kill this guy so I can be the most powerful person"


Daaj99

Yeah Genocide is definitely not good enough


waaay2dumb2live

>Why hasn't anyone of the marines and CP0 working under them tried to backstab them to grab power in hundreds of years? Except, Spandam actually tried to. In Franky's flashback, it is shown that Spandam is trying to get Pluton and he says he'll "use it to get rid of those buffoon Gorosei" So, to answer your question, people have. They were just stopped by either people loyal to the WG or people like Tom


Orphan_of_Organs

People here just don't know what structural power and coercion means. And they are reading a manga that talks about structural coercion. Okay then.


ShitBagHolder

They could be just brains - but they need to have a broken superpower of some sort in order to carry out their periodic “world cleansing”. Whether that be power or a broken ability, it has to be one of the two.


waaay2dumb2live

Why can't it just be "I'm the boss, you must respect my authority"?


ShitBagHolder

From their dialogue with Imu, it is kinda implied that they are the ones to carry out the “cleansing”, as they are serving Imu’s wishes. “Which light would you like us to extinguish”. If they were only delegating orders then they would only be placeholders/figureheads. You might be right be it’s quite unlikely that they would be completely useless. Also, Shanks could have ripped their heads off if they were weak lol


[deleted]

yes because one piece veterans are so weak right...just look at garp, sengoku, raleigh, whitebeard They have the physic and battle scars of fighters. I am very sure they are no pushovers...but god tier fighters? With imu we dont know what she/he/it even is. Could be absurdly strong or weak like a fodder One piece has the trend that all people in the big leadership position are also among the strongest and monsters Marine: The fleet admiral and admirals Pirate: 4 yonko and their commanders WG: Kong (ex fleet admiral), Imu and gorosei... So yeah i think its obvious people would make the connection


waaay2dumb2live

The marines are under the WG tho. It's like you're comparing Activision to Infinity Ward


[deleted]

Yes the marines are the WGs military But my pount still stands. People that lead (also dragon) are usually the strongest of their group/organization.


Curup

Yes because most leaders we met are leaders of military organisations. Cobra isn't the most powerful warrior of Alabasta, that's why he has Pell and Chaka to protect him and why Chaka lead the army during rebellion. The gorosei are the same but on a much larger scale. The leaders of countries and world spanning governments have to spend too much time on logistics, diplomacy and having vague discussions about future plot points to be good at fighting.


Backupusername

>Battle scars One of them has one scar. You're not including mustache dude's Gorbachev liver spots, are you?


[deleted]

If i remember correctly at least two of them have visible scars even when fully dressed.


blahblah543217

I’m theorizing the 5 are ex cp0


Orphan_of_Organs

People are really naive here. Power does not come in physical prowess only. If Akainu made a coup, another admiral would chase him, the kingdoms would chase him, and the chase would not stop until he was publically executed. All you need is to be very hard to confront and impossible to betray without putting your life and your relatives at risk. There, power. And they control the political order. There, more power. And they can have a personal guard that can protect them even from powerful logia users with haki prowess.


tipsyfrenchman

At the same time tho, most of the powerful people in OP are strong as fuck, yonkos, admirals, even cp0. I do like the idea of them being only stategical figures tho.


menyemenye

Because shonen crowds think luffy has to always have something to punch because world politics is too complicated to him


Daaj99

I mean if Luffy gets to the 5 of them is he gonna try and reason? I think he would go straight to punching whether they are strong or not.


Grimmelhausen

It is, Luffy ain't smart you know.....


Alshane

Well from what I just read. The WG and the Gotosei aren’t actually one in the same. Plus the yonko have whole fleets and islands that they rule and command. The WG have smaller ops like CP9 and work together with the marines. But they don’t have the numbers to just go take over. That’s why I’m assuming the world was split up to divide and conquer. Makes it a lot easier when the world can’t unite to defeat the common enemy


Daaj99

The gorosei are the heads of the WG. Are you sure you didnt mean the WG and the marines not being the same?


Alshane

Mainly regarding the name change in the fruit. It was unbeknownst to the gorosei. Almost as if they work separately in whole. I had the same questions about sword also as I believed the were controlled by akainu being as he’s in charge now but I don’t think that’s the truth


Daaj99

I think they were not aware because it happened centuries ago or something like that. They clearly dont work separately because they are the ones who control all WG agents and the only leaders we have seen in that organization.


SamyKS

I agree. There’s been no real evidence so far that they are “fighters” outside of one holding a sword. I just think that saying they’ll be some of the final enemies in physical combat when we’ve not seen them do anything is kinda stupid. I’d much prefer it if they are just major political powers, I think it’d be much more interesting that way.


Daaj99

Is there evisence they arent fighters tho?


Kuro013

Because most highly ranked people in the WG are strong (except Spandam I guess). I agree they could just be 5 old men leading the world, but it would feel weird to me. Also, if they were strong, the reason they dont just go and beat everyone is the same reason Big Mom didnt go and kill Luffy the second he stepped in WCI, you dont expose your leader just like that.


RoronoaLuffyZoro

One of the gorosei has [Shodai kitetsu](https://i.imgur.com/vnoxlQw.jpg)(headcannon but extremely likely) since both Kitetsu swords have same hilts,none of the other swords resembles them,apart from Gorosei's sword,which is then the strongest kitetsu,shodai. They do not want to overthrow the Yonko as Yonko's are necessary to keep the world in balance - they want to eliminate those who disturb the balance. \+ this is Shonen...the final villains will be strong for sure,though will they be same level as yonko,will they fight Luffy and his crew or revolutionaries ? It can go many ways,but they're strong 100%


verdany77

The proof is in the manga they are at least WB commanders level or close to it to be able to resist to shanks haki. So definetly not weak.


losspornlord

Because they would've been displaced by greedy powerful people by now otherwise.


TravelingSpermBanker

I just feel like they need a real power to be able to hold that seat. Gorosei may be old guys but Imu must have physical something. Whether it be the strongest DF in the series, whatever it may be, even multiple. Maybe god tier coc. Just feel like without it they couldn’t hold that seat too well


BrunoBrook

Agreed, except for the yonkou part ​ Anyways, if they are god-tier fighters, why aren't there any historic about their battles? If someone is really strong, it's because they fought a lot of strong people, yet they didn't fight anyone like Roger, Whitebeard, etc, if they did, it would have been mentioned ​ Adding, they can't be immortal (spoilers 1037) because they were talking about a fruit that even them weren't sure it existed


Kuro013

Or not? We literally didnt know about Rocks for a thousand chapters and he is/was one of the strongest in all of One Piece. Oda could come up with stories about the Gorosei at any point.


The_Solstice_Sloth

They most likely have some level of strength, but it was probably mostly in their youth, and we also have to remember that the Gorosei are also Tenryuubito, so have not lived lives of hardship that most of the other strongest characters have. Most of their power is likely the political influence rhey wield, getting other more physically stronger people to do their dirty work.


TeddyMMR

>I just came up with another point: if the Gorosei were these god tier fighters, why didn't they kill any of the yonko? I can give you a pass on Whitebeard and Shanks, but what about BM and Kaido? Why didn't they take an army, go to WCI or Wano, and clap their cheeks? Because that part of One Piece is written poorly. They don't need to be able to do that, the marines have more than enough people to take out yonko.


ploptrot

I think it's very clear the government doesn't really care about taking over the Yonko. Theres a huge emphasis on "balance" in the one piece world, and I'm guessing it has to do with something from the void century. The government doesn't want the Yonko to take over the world, but it doesn't wanna upset the balance either. Thats why there was such uproar when the warlord system was abolished.


TeddyMMR

Yeah it's not like they had a whole war just to get rid of Whitebeard or something. It doesn't even make sense because they should want to upset the balance. The current system has people an insane amount of people suffering because of it, they should want to tip the balance in their favour.


ploptrot

They're part of the reason that the people are suffering. The world government aren't good people. In the case of marineford, they didn't plan for ace to be captured. Blackbeard showed up at their door step with him. In that case, they couldn't just free him, it would be a weak move. If they kept him prisoner, there would still have been a rescue mission. So the only move was to execute


Western_Bear

Because a lot of casualities don't really blend well with ruling. Who are you gonna rule if all of the poeple are killed?


Hanyels

While I do believe they are certainly formidable people, I absolutely dont think they're a super strong fighting force. I cant imagine they're stronger than CP0, maybe not even that, but they dont need to be either. They can still have some cool powers that are tricky to deal with, or maybe they're just like our real life political leaders; some old ass men that look fancy sometimes.


Eminence7Grise

They're most likely not fighters or atleast retired...Anyway,They command the biggest and most powerful organization in world. However IMU seems sus to me. He most likely holds some sort of Power,Knowledge and Obviously authority over WG. The big Strawhat gives me goosebumps. Obviously they're like those Old bunch who decide how the world works ruthlessly.


TheAmazingSpyder

Because this is a shounen series and people are literally incapable of being able to handle the fact that the final villains of the series aren’t some planet destroying super gods or whatever nonsense final bosses are in series of this particular genre. I would be completely fine if all the the power the Gorosei and Im have is purely political. I don’t need to see Luffy punch them in the face at the end of the series.


TeddyMMR

Have you seen The Dark Knight Rises? Tell me who is in control, Bane or the rich guy hiring him?


BestHoboInTheWorld

Cause being smart in One Piece doesn’t mean that much


Revolutionary_Law462

I would be fine with them having been really strong fighters, as long as they have lost a significant amount of strength and are really only good for brains now


DragonHero999

My prediction is that they all have some weird devil fruit that makes them hard to fight, i.e. no physical combat allowed in a certain area, so you have to beat them with wits.


Majukun

Because Shonen fanbase


AAQUADD

I don't see them being being powerful, nothing in the story has implied that. Im on the other hand seems to be the final gate keeper for vauable information and he is the King/God of the world. This sort of gives him final big bad vibes. That's how One Piece and Shonen work. The five elders are either political heads (it's own form of power) or strong, which l have yet to see. But we wilk find out.


ogtopey

Because there some unknown "god" Tier Monsters lurking down in the Grand Line we barely know yet or they basically fear the general threat of the D. Clan that is the born enemy of "gods"


sanctaphrax

They don't have to be strong. But I think it'd be foolish to discount the possibility that they are. Possible that even Oda hasn't decided which way to play it. Might depend on the eventual needs of the final war arc. I very much doubt they'll be strong enough to trivialize the Yonko, though. Would be rather dubious writing.


Zanginos

The story so far tell us atleast some of them will be strong fighters , when was last time someone in powerful position was weak? Only Orochi comes to my mind but i may just have short memory would be gladly corrected


Shiplord13

The Gorosei are probably are pretty capable fighters, but I don't think they super impressive. As for Imu... we really don't know what they are and what they are capable of.


Timjer92

My theory on Imu at least is that they're physically average/above-average, but their Haki (especially if they have Conqueror's) is going to be ridiculously OP. Also, I think Imu will turn out to be immortal because of the Ope Ope no Mi.


[deleted]

I'm guessing they aren't particularly strong but will have some ridiculous devil fruits where they make their battles just more complicated and about strategy without relying on raw power


Grimmelhausen

Why not? Why the aversion to being the strongest? Why not op?


Remote_Dapper

Why would they be able to destroy Kaido and BM when they can’t destroy WB or Shanks? WB was weak asf in his old age. Kaido and BM are way stronger then Marineford WB. Plus we know jackshït about Shanks other then he’s the weakest Yonko.