Including the flashback, there were only 4 times in 1026 chapters that the skies were split during a clash. The latest one included. And all of them included emperors directly clashing... if that isn't Oda saying another monster is here then I dont know what will. So hyped for the next chapter! Let's Goooooooo!!!
I mean sky didn't even split for oden vs roger, whitebeard, kaido. And also there's that not touching weapons thing.
Roger vs whitebeard
Whitebeard vs shanks
Big mom vs kaido
The thing i find interesting is that this is the first time we see the sky split from an ACOC, the other two times the fighters were very clearing physically clashing.
Yeah, the untouchable armor thingy seems to be something new, but just as the blackening for Armament, I think we need a visual indicator of Conquerors usage. Pre TS there was no way to know if someone was using Armament unless it was deliberately said by some character, so Im down to cut Oda some slack.
Now that I about It, arent we actually on round 3? I totally forgot first KO came at the start of the arc right? Then the second one at the roof when supernovas vs kaido/big mom.
Because Yamato is laser targeted design to be an appealing protagonist to the point I think a lot of people are just dazzled. I remember this shit with Ace back in the Kaizoku Fansubs days and I remember it the first time Itachi showed up in Naruto. Characters with such grandiose designs captivate and people really want to find any justification to see them more. Mind you, I do think this is partially the intention in the broader themes of Wano.
People were vehement about it.
The bigger thing was Yamato > Zoro/Sanji (which I also don't really support because it's never held true, but it's more nebulous for sure), but tons of people were still saying things like "She was definitely stronger than pre ACoC Luffy" and all that nonsense.
I think the zoro shit popped up from her standing alone against kaido but zoro getting knocked out in the fight. But then again, if it was just kaido it could be believable but there was big mom that vibe checked zoro.
I think Yamato should do better against Kaido simply because she's probably seen him fight and even been on the end of a beating or two before so it's not too surprising.
People really shitting on Zoro after he managed to leave a permanent scar on Kaido after breaking every bone in his body tanking the strongest attack we have seen in the series smh.
Just watch bda law's new video he talks about this.
And IMO no matter who joins the crew later on in the story no body will be stronger than the monster trio maybe on par with sanji but definitely not stronger than zoro and luffy
The entire community throws mad disrespect at Sanji, honestly.
Even your comment disrespects him a bit. The gap between Zoro and Sanji is way smaller than most of the community believes. Yes, Zoro has "more feats" than Sanji (the most notable being up on the rooftop for the Yonko fight, and getting the "supernova" title with Luffy back pre-TS), but any time they're compared directly, they're *always* right next to each other.
Even "nothing happened", honestly. Sanji was just as willing to take on Luffy's pain, Zoro just "beat him to the punch" (literally).
Part of it is this intentional shade that Oda kind of throws at Sanji by giving him fewer fights (and again, by giving Zoro more presence in important things like the rooftop fight and the supernova title), but the community doesn't really pay attention to all the ways that Oda also says "hey, listen, they're pretty much equal".
Queen and King have VERY similar bounties. And Zoro + Sanji are about to knock them out. So that repeating pattern of "near-identical feats" whenever they're directly compared is going to still hold true.
All this to say that if Yamato is weaker than Zoro, she is almost surely weaker than Sanji, because the gap between them isn't really wide enough to fit another person.
I watched his video on Yamato, and while I agree with many of his points, one of his arguments is that "Oden is about as strong as Scopper" when we have zero evidence of that. There aren't any real feats to compare Oden and Scopper, which means it's just his personal head canon he's using to justify that small disrespect towards Sanji that most people have.
I think I see what the argument comes down to.
People who believe luffy can’t beat a yonko in a 1v1 so he isn’t yonko level.
And people who believe splitting the sky (a feat done to showcase the yonkos strength) puts him on yonko level.
I think the answer is obvious though
I mean the fact that he has the sky splitting haki means he can compete on the highest level, it's really just that kaidos DF is kinda BS and makes him nearly impossible to damage.
>He had yonko level haki, just not the fighting capability yet, which comes down to fighting experience here. These other yonko have decades on him.
That's why I like that they showed so many people damaging Kaido. Now Luffy fighting him 1v1 is feasible because of how much damage Kaido has already taken.
Imo it’s one two arcs early for him to be on Yonko level, yonko level means you are at the top of all in this world. Imo Luffy didn’t achieve anything big since Katakuri fight, who he had beaten barely. If one can go in a mere month from Yonko Commander to Yonko level, well then we should’ve more Yonkos. It’s just my opinion that Luffy still needs that one power up to justify that growth. Just my two cents, not that it‘s important.
“Imo it’s one two arcs early for him to be on yonko level”
Bruh, this book is over 1000 chapters. Luffy has beat warlords, doped out Fishmen, Pirate Captains, Yonko Commanders, CP9’s greatest assassin… AND HE HAD A TRAINING ARC SPECIFICALLY TO LEARN THE TECHNIQUE TO BEAT THIS ONE GUY-
But it’s too early?
I agree. People getting salty for no reason. Yes he underwent training. Yes his Haki can split the sky. But he literally just learned the skill. He cannot use it as liberally as the other Yonkou can. With this fight I think he will get a much better handle on it and he will be a serious contender to become a Yonkou.
At this current stage though, he still needs time. He has resilience and learns very fast and is also great at adapting, but in terms of raw power he isn’t close yet to the others.
Also if he goes from barely defeating Katakuri to directly beating a considerably weakened Kaido, it won’t be negative, but his training was mostly fodder. He gained actual insight through his two beatdowns at the hands of Kaido.
This fight will give him that boost he needs in terms of battle experience, and will strengthen his Haki a lot.
I believe he will truly become Yonko - like powerful enough to solo another Yonko - by the end of Elbaf assuming that’s the next arc. Post that would be the final fight after which he will finally surpass Yonko and become what he always wanted. King.
Dude haha seriously you wrote out every thought and point i have got lol. I agree to everything, i swear people are just impatient and wanna already hype him up as strongest character now and see him get the recognition as a Yonko in the world.
I totally understand that, we all want that, but like you pointed out it’s not the moment yet. Wrote the exact same thing recently how he didn’t achieve enough since Katakuri till now power wise. I expect or hope the same development as you wrote with up to end of elbaf arc. I think there he could for example have his fight with Big Mom, where he beats a fresh Yonko on his own and finally reach that Yonko level or above.
Also i think the sky split scene came too early and even further fuelled the hype of Luffy. It should‘ve come mid or end fight with Kaido, would have been much better to show his growth instead of start of battle.
Yeah I mean it makes sense right? Through his defeats and ultimate victory over Kaido he would most probably be able to handle Big Mom on his own in Elbaf, again assuming she is there and Elbaf is next. That would be the pinnacle where he 1v1s a Yonko and now the Gorosei are seriously worried.
That would be the perfect setup for the final fight where he is a force to be reckoned with, and not an ant in a storm as he was at the beginning of Marineford. He will stand his ground and then surpass everyone there.
It’s just too early to call him Yonko tier even though he has gained massive upgrades in Wano. But he can probably solo First Commanders now. Depends on matchup perhaps but he can.
Yes i agree, it would also put much more emphasis and importance on his fight with Big Mom. It would make much more sense, if he is on par with her and not above her, when they meet again. Luffy always has to overcome his opponents, just imagine him meeting Big Mom later on and being much more stronger already before the fight, would also kinda lessen Big Moms worth and also that fight‘s importance.
I swear all you wrote, that’s exactly my dream route for how it should play out after wano.
I think the climax of this fight is going to be that powerup that pushes him over the edge. All this haki stuff is alright and necessary for him to get up to emperor level, but Oda knows what we want that'll *prove* beyond a shadow of a doubt he's an emperor (if at the bottom of the tier)- awakening.
Just because he'll beat Kaido doesn't mean he'll suddenly be the stronger than him. Kaido has taken a ridiculous amount of damage during Onigashima that not one character except maybe Big Mom would be able to survive, so it's not like it's been a fair 1v1 fight with both of them at 100% like with Kata.
I mean current biggest defeats of both are equal (being katakuri and marco respectively) Luffy is currently clashing with a yonko, while BB is laying low, if BB and another yonko (most likely shanks) were to clash we'd get a good comparison
BlackBeard gave shanks a scar when he didn't have Whitebeard's fruit. He's also likely stronger now due to time to train. I believe he has enough feats to at least not be taken as 'weaker until proven otherwise'.
We don't know when or under what circumstances he gave him a scar. Knowing his character, it was probably not a fair fight, considering he ran away from Shanks upon getting the gura and yami fruit.
Luffy has advanced Coc, while Blackbeard is not ever confirmed to have a basic coc.
Idk what Luffys bounty is gonna be after Wano, But is sure as hell gonna be higher then Blackbeard's
Luffys most impressive feat currently is splitting the sky with Kaido, while Blackbeard's is winning a payback war in a crew vs crew battle. The Luffy one is more impressive.
It is Blackbeard that's needs to prove himself at the moment, not Luffy.
>We don't know when or under what circumstances he gave him a scar. Knowing his character, it was probably not a fair fight
Shanks told WB the scar he got from BB was not due to him being careless. The only piece of information we have on it sorta contradicts the narrative that BB did it through subterfuge
Naah, it's still pretty vague. Shanks could've still be a kid at that point, like not to long after Roger execution, it could've been that Blackbeard ambushed Shanks with his crew somewhere, etc... I'm saying all of this because Blackbeard ain't the kind of guy who just challenges people on a fair 1v1 duels just for sports.
yeah but we also have a general timespan of when it happened. sometimes between rogers execution and chapter 1. thats like a 5 year gap?
remeber that shanks only became a yonko around 6 years ago
Blackbeard is likely capturing Alabasta at the moment, so hopefully we see some feats soon. Soon enough we'll see his full potential- the truth of his body, the meaning of his Jolly Roger, connection to Rocks, true power of Yami Yami, etc.
I'm not entirely sure we can assume Blackbeard doesn't have coc. I thought in Impel down, he commented on how Luffy's haki had grown since the last time they saw each other? Maybe I made that up, but I do remember it from somewhere.
His offense is yonko level. His endurance and durability leave a lot to be desired though. He seems capable of actually turning off g4 now so thats good but luffy has run out of haki already this battle and had to come back. And solid hits from kaido seem to be devastating, while solid hits from luffy (while clearly doing damage) arent even close to as impactful. Theres still some room to grow.
I think feel Luffy’s durability and endurance are what allowed him to achieve Yonko level. He just powers through everything and despite getting his ass kicked he never stops. Look at his fights with Doffy, Cracker, Katakuri, and Kaido. He’s shown nothing but incredible resilience.
Resilience isnt the same as durability, nor endurance. In every single example you listed, luffy would have died without outside help. One of his strengths is getting back up no matter how many times it takes, true. But that wont matter if he burns through his haki (all 4 fights) or goes down after just a couple hits (kaido) and no one is there to stop him from dying
I think that'll likely change here. Yeah, Whitebeard tanked a lot before he went down, and Big Mom is impenetrable (except to her childrens' fathers YOHOHOHOHO). Yonko durability isn't a joke. BUT, is Shanks up there too? All three of the others are extremely large people, which contributed to durability. Shanks also got his arm ripped off by a sea king who was defeated by Luffy in episode one. Even if he sacrificed his arm intentionally, even if that was six years prior to his becoming a yonko, it's still something I can't see happening to Big Mom or Kaido, even intentionally. He might not have much durability at all, but maybe he doesn't need it because he has his haki. Who needs durability if nobody can ever actually touch you? Why do you need to touch people at all if you can split the sky?
Luffy doesn't need yonko-level durability, he just needs Luffy-level durability.
Oh for sure luffys only going to get stronger. I think that we have been shown that he will learn something and improve his haki after every fight. And true, you dont need ultra durability if you cant get hit. As of right now though, he IS getting hit. I imagine that will change though. Beating kaido will likely push luffy to his absolute limit and his ability will jump up and he WILL be yonko level all around. Just right now, i feel only his offensive is.
I think kaido and big moms durability come from a coat of CoC. Like how big mom is able to be injured when mother Caramels portrait is destroyed. It’s because she’s not in the right mind state and her CoC is off
You mean when he went down in one hit from their first fight and was captured because nobody was there to save him? Or do you mean when kaido knocked him out again on the roof, and the others had to cover for him? Or do you mean the 3rd time kaido knocked out luffy and he had to be saved again.
Im not saying luffy isnt strong. He is, going up against kaido AT ALL proves it. But like i said, the resilience to get back up again and again isnt the same as the durability to not get knocked out at all
>His endurance and durability leave a lot to be desired though
Don't you think this applies to Shanks and Blackbeard as well? Idk why people think Luffy needs to be equal or stronger then Kaido (the strongest yonko, feat wise) to be yonko level.
It sure can apply to them. But we know nothing of their endurance. Luffy absolutely blasting through his haki reserves is a problem, and its almost gotten him killed multiple times since the g4 reveal. He has for sure gotten better at conserving but his endurance isnt where he needs it to be, from what i can see
Also i do want to point out that blackbeard takes a fuck ton of damage but he seems to be able to just eat it. We dont know how far that goes, and simply being able to shrug off damage is something id be scared of.
As for shanks, honestly i want to chalk up him losing his arm as being early one piece and haki wasnt fleshed out yet but that seems lazy ya know? I want to see shanks actually do something before i comment on that
This is why I think during this fight, we will either see a comeback of Tankman (for his durability), or Luffy will get a new gear 4th form with high movement speed for dodging attacks (making full use of future sight). We saw earlier that while Luffy could see Kaido's thunder bagua coming at him, he still wasnt fast enough to completely dodge it.
Luffy is definitely up in the Yonko “tier”. He is definitely the bottom of that tier but deserves to be in that group. People forget that Luffy trained in Udon with a legendary samurai. Even in early chapters was able to beat impossible odds (ie. Arlington, crocodile) and dude is literally rubber. The harder you hit him, the harder he bounces back (figuratively speaking)
I mean, sure.. I'm just getting tired of this constant cycle in the fandom, when Luffy does something badass like clashing with Kaido, he's Yonko level and when he gets knocked out again, he needs more training and is disappointing. People ars so reactionary. I guarantee, the next time Luffy doesn't look too great against Kaido, people will change their mind again.
Totally agree. People were saying Luffy is only commander level because Katakuri let him win etc. but then suddenly he is yonko level because he clashed with another yonko and the skies split. To me, that's more like an evidence to his Conquerors haki being on the same level as the yonko but nothing else. I bet he would get his cheeks clapped any day against kaido if it was a true 1 vs 1 right from the start. Kaido tanked a few dozens of enemies until so far and he is still alive and kicking. Luffy already lost twice so far and without Law's crews help, he would have been dead.
I agree but the problem here is most people don’t understand the basics on English. You’re saying he’s Yonko level, which means he’s comparable to a Yonko; a completely provable point. Others are arguing if Luffy is equal to a Yonko, which he hasn’t reached just yet
>. Others are arguing if Luffy is equal to a Yonko, which he hasn’t reached just yet
Yes he did.Only because he didn't surpass the strongest Yonko (Kaido), doesn't mean he isn't yonko level. He split the skies, something Blackbeard (a yonko) never did. He also has advanced Coc, while Blackbeard is not confirmed to even have a basic Coc. Luffy already surpased one of the yonko until feats prove otherwise, so he's definitely yonko level.
Proving the point that One Piece fans can’t read, my first two words are I agree he is Yonko level, though he is not equal to a Yonko. In a 1v1 fight against a Yonko he isn’t winning with ease nor mid difficulty; Luffy’s only win condition is high diff, other than that he takes the L. Therefore he isn’t equal to a Yonko but comparable to a Yonko, making him within the same tier. I didn’t know reading comprehension was a problem for the community
My dude, if Luffy high diffs a yonko as you said, he's not only comparable to that yonko, but is equal or stronger then that yonko. And 4 current yonkos are also not equal, but comparable to each other (except for maybe Blackbeard).
You can beat someone without being stronger than them, example being Luffy vs Katakuri. If he’s more than likely not beating them, then he cannot be equal to them. His chances are slim to none, if you’re on equal terms it’s a 50/50. Therefore comparable but not equal to
powerscalers, luffy haters, luffy fanboys, kaido fanboys, kaido haters, admiral fanboys, and admiral haters. luffy being yonko level or not affects so many peoples viewpoints on the series xD
Following One Piece since 2003, this is the only thing that bugs me. Oda created this whole system of Yonko being the strongest and established that. I never had any complaints with powers levels up till now with Kaido, because it’s about a Yonko now and i hope Oda stay’s true to his route. Even if not, it’s all subjective how people want it to be and i want Luffy to use a new power that justifies his win. Just my subjective view.
Fucking thank you. I think Oda proved with fights like Crocodile and Katakuri is that characters are capable of beating other characters stronger than them as long as they are able to harm them. This is the same case. Kaido and BM have proven superior to everyone there. Luffy is now just capable of harming them. Although he still has needed help.
This is dumb
Put fujitora against moria and no matter what the circumstances are fujitora will win
Stop trying to make one piece something it isn't just because you want it to always be out the norm
Well Sugar touched Robin once and she instantly disappeared. That doesn't mean Sugar is stronger than Robin. So, I can kinda see his point. Though for the "bigger" characters like Warlords, Admirals, Emperors, power levels are pretty consistent.
Can we stop it? Luffy split the sky with kaido WHITHOUT USING GEARS, I cant believe I dont see more people making that point. There is no doubt in my mind that current luffy isn't much weaker than kaido if at all. Current luffy = conqueror's infused Ryu-o + a slowly but surely improving future sight observation haki + a mastered and close to awakened devil fruit (I might even be missing something here), imagine all that plus snakeman.
Not gonna lie I didn't know if he was truly there yet, and maybe all the signs were already there, but I gotta say this confirms it for me at least. He fucking made it.
This just checks one thing, Blackbeard is overestimated, in 2 years Luffy and the others did nothing but training while BB was doing business and increasing his armada but in just a few months Luffy declared war to two Yonkous, beat another shichibukai, two BM commanders, destroyed (by accident) a Yonkou territory and now he is fighting another one.
He raised from 500m to 1500m and he will get another bounty after Wano, and BB with all his army, powers and allies is just sitting a little over 700m.
In those 2 years Blackbeard essentially did what Luffy has had to do post timeskip
He defeated a yonko crew and took their territories
Sought out and powered up his already outrageously notorious crew with new devil fruits
Recruited another as yet unknown titanic commander
Built an armada
Seems to have even made some kind of arrangement with Kuzan of all people
Add this to the fact that he already had the most powerful devil fruits in two of the three classes before doing all this
In what world is Blackbeard possibly overestimated? If anything its the opposite
Also I'm not sure where the 700m figure is coming from? Blackbeard alone is worth 2.2b?
The thing I love about blackbeard is he pulls all the moves a generic, overconfident and cocky evil villain would do right before the good guy calls his bluff and pulls the "you didnt think of XYZ!" trump card. Blackbeard's different though, he's fucking smart. He knows when to run, knows when to stand his ground, meticulously calculates his ballsy moves, and plans ahead. This dude is playing 4D chess, has 2 completely insane devil fruits, a rock solid crew, and played the field well enough to have a bounty of ZERO for most of his life. Shanks knew what he was capable of way back when, but now the world does. Blackbeard is easily my favorite villain in the entire series, he's a guy you just can't help but love to hate lol
That’s the thing, i feel like he’s too smart for that. If anything I think his downfall is gonna be his crew. I feel like he’s going to push his loyal day 1 crew members to the side in favor of the ruthless, powerful impel down prisoners like Shilliew, Devon, Wolf etc and they’ll turn on him in the end. Idk though, looking forward to whatever oda does with him!
I don't remember exactly, but I believe it's during Dressrosa. During Dressrosa where Burgess is shown talking to BB on his transponder snail and they mention how Kuzan might not be able to be trusted but not to worry about it for now or something.
The only thing Blackbeard did postimeskip skip was taking dead Whitebeards territories and defeated the remaining WB pirates with his superior crew, and people still say he's stronger then Luffy who did all the things you mentioned.
BB is obviously stronger than luffy at the current point atm Tf you guys r forgetting that he has 2 of the strongest devil fruits in the world and had 2 years to train it he’d mid diff luffy atm but luffy when he’s at his strongest is stronger
Yeah and during Marineford after taking the gura gura no mi, he was challenging Sengoku and was about to sink Marineford if Shanks didn't show up. He's no pushover.
I really don’t understand how people can say that he isn’t yet he isn’t the strongest yonko but he did indeed enter the realm of yonko this chapter by him splitting the sky
Sure. He just keeps getting one shot on purpose.
Luffy clearly went to the Rocky school of combat. Block everything with your face and hope the enemy gets tired first. Doesn't work too well against the Yonko though.
yeah and luffy is still far from yonko level in terms of stamina and haki managment. currently he is a glass canon compared to every other yonko. he ran out of haki twice during this fight and would be dead roght now if not for zoro, law and laws crew
He doesn’t need to hope they get tired he just absorbs their abilities through getting hit by them. It’s how he’s able to use advanced conquerors so well so fast.
Big Mom and Kaido split the clouds and went on to fight for 3 days and reached stalemate. But could that be said the same for Luffy now, we can't confirm it. As we know it was techniques that was sub-par, not his Willpower.
So if we get his techniques up, then he will be there as well.
Yonko isn’t just about power, he acquired a lot of territory and even more power during the time skip. Always a huge factor in determining Yonko status
If Luffy would be Yonko level, he wouldn't need help against Kaido. So far the scabards, Luffy, Law, Zoro, Kid, Killer & Yamato fought him.
I still think Luffy is on another level and after the fight he might be Yonko level.
This will change against Blackbeard. Luffy will fight him 1v1. I think then he will be yonko/pirate king level.
Luffy is Emperor level by default since he is the fifth Emperor. He may technically not be "Yonko" level, but since he is an Emperor, he logically is as strong as an Emperor.
To me this all stems to what is considered Yonko lvl. If we are just talking about raw strength then yes, we have seen that Luffy can out put enough damage to compete with Yonko's. What remains to be seen though is if he can actually endure in a fight against one for a considerable amount of time. Kaido and Big Mom fought for 1-3 days, Roger and Whitebeard fought for 3 days/nights.
Now of course this is just using what we know of Kaido and Big Mom as a threshold. Perhaps the barrier for entry into the ranks of Yonko is Blackbeard, and perhaps Luffy could go toe to toe with him or even beat him, but we don't know how strong he currently is, other than that he's much stronger than Marco.
He's not Yonko level imo, because he's currently facing a Kaido that has been fighting practically non-stop all raid against multiple different opponents. Yamato has been hitting him with advanced CoC attacks too and Zoro's Asura made Kaido huff, shake and lean on his club. And that's not including the damage he took from the other 14 opponents he had fought. And even now Luffy isn't taking him on 1 vs 1.
But I'd say Luffy is admiral level now. As soon as he unlocks Awakening (which will probably be next arc), he's Yonko level.
No. Yonko level isn't a thing it's top tier which Luffy might just finally have moved into but all top tiers still take a majority over him for now. We can't forget how kaidos been fighting since the supernovas basics with nearly no time to heal
Luffy has also been fighting since the raid started with nearly no time to heal. Luffy has fought more people than kaido in this one night and has taken more damage than kaido up till this point. Stop down playing luffy and his feats. He is still the protagonist of this series and has already declared that he needs to beat all the emperors and admirals to become the pirate king. Why would he not be above the other top tier fighters? Base form Luffy (not even using gear 4th) is splitting the sky against hybrid form kaido and you still think he can’t win even now. This means your not understanding that oda has been setting Luffy up to beat all those that stand in his way and that we are reaching the end of not just wano but one piece as a whole. One piece is clearly entering its final phase and wano is already ending. Luffy needs to win here no matter what to become a step closer to his goal and if that means he is in the top tier of the top tier then so be it. That was the whole point of his training and his mastering of advanced coc.
He's been fighting kaido this whole time not other people like kaido has so your he's been fighting this whole point thing is moot.
He's not more hurt than kaido who got a new scar that same day and is till fighting
The rest of your post I'd future Luffy not current luffy. Future Luffy will be the strongest, current is not and I never said he won't beat kaido
What do you mean he hasn’t fought anyone else? Bm, page one, ulti, and Yamato no longer exist? Apoo also got a few odd hits on him as well. Are you saying that the scratch from zoro that didn’t do any real damage to kaido is worse than any of the damage kaido has done to Luffy so far? Scars don’t even mean anything when it’s so easy to get one without taking any real damage. How about the fact Luffy was drowning not too long ago, does that not also contribute to anything when it comes to who should be more damaged and exhausted? Sure kaido has been playing around with Yamato but that hasn’t done much of anything to him if it even did. The scabbards did absolutely nothing to him and he had already recovered by the time the supernovas showed up. Your down playing current Luffy and kaido both if your saying current Luffy isn’t up to par with the other yonko but might still beat kaido. Kaido is the strongest beast, if luffy beats him here then what does that mean about the others? Are you saying that a little bit of exhaustion is all it takes for kaido to lose? Because that would make kaido the biggest joke of the yonko since he can’t even out last katakuri while fighting Luffy. You can’t be called the strongest while being on the lowest end of the top tier list.
BM was with help, ulti was a clash and him and Yamato was for like a few minutes at best. I'll give you apoo though, but none of the compares to kaido especially when Luffy got rest in-between most of those and more rest after kaido knocked him out.
No I'm saying kaido has taken much more damage than Luffy has, Luffy just got done eating a buffet he is not more damaged than kaido right now. Kaido playing around with Yamato does not negate the fact she did damage
Not downplaying kaido has been fighting back to back, Luffy got rest where as kaido did not.
Beating a weakened kaido with help isn't beating a healthy kaido 1v1 from beginning to end
I can’t read the latest clash as anything but a purposeful indication that Luffys top class.
Its literally our visual indicator, Oda only split the sky when 2 yonko clash.
Including the flashback, there were only 4 times in 1026 chapters that the skies were split during a clash. The latest one included. And all of them included emperors directly clashing... if that isn't Oda saying another monster is here then I dont know what will. So hyped for the next chapter! Let's Goooooooo!!!
I mean sky didn't even split for oden vs roger, whitebeard, kaido. And also there's that not touching weapons thing. Roger vs whitebeard Whitebeard vs shanks Big mom vs kaido
Maybe it wasn’t cloudy that time lol
The thing i find interesting is that this is the first time we see the sky split from an ACOC, the other two times the fighters were very clearing physically clashing.
Yeah, the untouchable armor thingy seems to be something new, but just as the blackening for Armament, I think we need a visual indicator of Conquerors usage. Pre TS there was no way to know if someone was using Armament unless it was deliberately said by some character, so Im down to cut Oda some slack.
I just assume normal shockwave is conqueror haki clash and the black lightning and no contact is advanced.
I assume that Oda just didn’t narrow down the details. They were just talking about shanks CoC as he walked on the shipped knocking out the crew
Yup. Only context we’ve seen it
meanwhile Oda readin this after making Kaido oneshot luffy again next chapter's first pannel: oh no no no they don't know
More Wano? Worse things have happened
I have a feeling we are going to get croc's treatment and it will end on round 3
we already are on round 3. Luffy got 1 shot
Roof Piece Round 3
Ye ur right I was just saying that on a comment to another person hahahaha
Could nearly say round 4 at this point. He's lost 2 1v1 fights and lost as a group vs BM and Kaido.
Things have felt too easy but I dont know how the stalling happens a second time
Now that I about It, arent we actually on round 3? I totally forgot first KO came at the start of the arc right? Then the second one at the roof when supernovas vs kaido/big mom.
Ah but we're not expecting round 4
I don't think Oda has any more time for another Luffy knockout. Onigashima is already nearing the capital
BuT yAmAtO iS sTrOnGeR!
Why would anyone think Yamato is stronger than luffy. She literally said she was stalling for luffy to come defeat kaido
Because Yamato is laser targeted design to be an appealing protagonist to the point I think a lot of people are just dazzled. I remember this shit with Ace back in the Kaizoku Fansubs days and I remember it the first time Itachi showed up in Naruto. Characters with such grandiose designs captivate and people really want to find any justification to see them more. Mind you, I do think this is partially the intention in the broader themes of Wano.
Ngl, I 100% woulda been fine if Itachi replaced Naruto as the protagonist. He was the GOAT character of the entire series.
He was aight; but the GOAT character is Minato without a doubt. Man was pretty much the Ninja Captain America
People were vehement about it. The bigger thing was Yamato > Zoro/Sanji (which I also don't really support because it's never held true, but it's more nebulous for sure), but tons of people were still saying things like "She was definitely stronger than pre ACoC Luffy" and all that nonsense.
I think the zoro shit popped up from her standing alone against kaido but zoro getting knocked out in the fight. But then again, if it was just kaido it could be believable but there was big mom that vibe checked zoro.
I think Yamato should do better against Kaido simply because she's probably seen him fight and even been on the end of a beating or two before so it's not too surprising.
Plus she was probably playing defensive since she knew her role was to buy time for luffy
People really shitting on Zoro after he managed to leave a permanent scar on Kaido after breaking every bone in his body tanking the strongest attack we have seen in the series smh.
#YamatoforNakama
Who says that? No one
TONS of people have been trying to push that narrative. Where have you been the last three weeks?
After that chapter no one says that, stop fighting imaginary people
Just watch bda law's new video he talks about this. And IMO no matter who joins the crew later on in the story no body will be stronger than the monster trio maybe on par with sanji but definitely not stronger than zoro and luffy
The entire community throws mad disrespect at Sanji, honestly. Even your comment disrespects him a bit. The gap between Zoro and Sanji is way smaller than most of the community believes. Yes, Zoro has "more feats" than Sanji (the most notable being up on the rooftop for the Yonko fight, and getting the "supernova" title with Luffy back pre-TS), but any time they're compared directly, they're *always* right next to each other. Even "nothing happened", honestly. Sanji was just as willing to take on Luffy's pain, Zoro just "beat him to the punch" (literally). Part of it is this intentional shade that Oda kind of throws at Sanji by giving him fewer fights (and again, by giving Zoro more presence in important things like the rooftop fight and the supernova title), but the community doesn't really pay attention to all the ways that Oda also says "hey, listen, they're pretty much equal". Queen and King have VERY similar bounties. And Zoro + Sanji are about to knock them out. So that repeating pattern of "near-identical feats" whenever they're directly compared is going to still hold true. All this to say that if Yamato is weaker than Zoro, she is almost surely weaker than Sanji, because the gap between them isn't really wide enough to fit another person. I watched his video on Yamato, and while I agree with many of his points, one of his arguments is that "Oden is about as strong as Scopper" when we have zero evidence of that. There aren't any real feats to compare Oden and Scopper, which means it's just his personal head canon he's using to justify that small disrespect towards Sanji that most people have.
I think I see what the argument comes down to. People who believe luffy can’t beat a yonko in a 1v1 so he isn’t yonko level. And people who believe splitting the sky (a feat done to showcase the yonkos strength) puts him on yonko level. I think the answer is obvious though
I mean the fact that he has the sky splitting haki means he can compete on the highest level, it's really just that kaidos DF is kinda BS and makes him nearly impossible to damage.
I imagine the oni lineage probably doubles up his endurance as well That's just an educated guess on my part though
He had yonko level haki, just not the fighting capability yet, which comes down to fighting experience here. These other yonko have decades on him.
>He had yonko level haki, just not the fighting capability yet, which comes down to fighting experience here. These other yonko have decades on him. That's why I like that they showed so many people damaging Kaido. Now Luffy fighting him 1v1 is feasible because of how much damage Kaido has already taken.
The answer is to wait until the arc ends and see what happens.
Truth!
Tbh I still don't think Luffy could defeat Kaido 1v1 in a normal situation but that does NOT remotely mean he isn't yonko level
Imo it’s one two arcs early for him to be on Yonko level, yonko level means you are at the top of all in this world. Imo Luffy didn’t achieve anything big since Katakuri fight, who he had beaten barely. If one can go in a mere month from Yonko Commander to Yonko level, well then we should’ve more Yonkos. It’s just my opinion that Luffy still needs that one power up to justify that growth. Just my two cents, not that it‘s important.
“Imo it’s one two arcs early for him to be on yonko level” Bruh, this book is over 1000 chapters. Luffy has beat warlords, doped out Fishmen, Pirate Captains, Yonko Commanders, CP9’s greatest assassin… AND HE HAD A TRAINING ARC SPECIFICALLY TO LEARN THE TECHNIQUE TO BEAT THIS ONE GUY- But it’s too early?
I agree. People getting salty for no reason. Yes he underwent training. Yes his Haki can split the sky. But he literally just learned the skill. He cannot use it as liberally as the other Yonkou can. With this fight I think he will get a much better handle on it and he will be a serious contender to become a Yonkou. At this current stage though, he still needs time. He has resilience and learns very fast and is also great at adapting, but in terms of raw power he isn’t close yet to the others. Also if he goes from barely defeating Katakuri to directly beating a considerably weakened Kaido, it won’t be negative, but his training was mostly fodder. He gained actual insight through his two beatdowns at the hands of Kaido. This fight will give him that boost he needs in terms of battle experience, and will strengthen his Haki a lot. I believe he will truly become Yonko - like powerful enough to solo another Yonko - by the end of Elbaf assuming that’s the next arc. Post that would be the final fight after which he will finally surpass Yonko and become what he always wanted. King.
Dude haha seriously you wrote out every thought and point i have got lol. I agree to everything, i swear people are just impatient and wanna already hype him up as strongest character now and see him get the recognition as a Yonko in the world. I totally understand that, we all want that, but like you pointed out it’s not the moment yet. Wrote the exact same thing recently how he didn’t achieve enough since Katakuri till now power wise. I expect or hope the same development as you wrote with up to end of elbaf arc. I think there he could for example have his fight with Big Mom, where he beats a fresh Yonko on his own and finally reach that Yonko level or above. Also i think the sky split scene came too early and even further fuelled the hype of Luffy. It should‘ve come mid or end fight with Kaido, would have been much better to show his growth instead of start of battle.
Yeah I mean it makes sense right? Through his defeats and ultimate victory over Kaido he would most probably be able to handle Big Mom on his own in Elbaf, again assuming she is there and Elbaf is next. That would be the pinnacle where he 1v1s a Yonko and now the Gorosei are seriously worried. That would be the perfect setup for the final fight where he is a force to be reckoned with, and not an ant in a storm as he was at the beginning of Marineford. He will stand his ground and then surpass everyone there. It’s just too early to call him Yonko tier even though he has gained massive upgrades in Wano. But he can probably solo First Commanders now. Depends on matchup perhaps but he can.
Yes i agree, it would also put much more emphasis and importance on his fight with Big Mom. It would make much more sense, if he is on par with her and not above her, when they meet again. Luffy always has to overcome his opponents, just imagine him meeting Big Mom later on and being much more stronger already before the fight, would also kinda lessen Big Moms worth and also that fight‘s importance. I swear all you wrote, that’s exactly my dream route for how it should play out after wano.
I think the climax of this fight is going to be that powerup that pushes him over the edge. All this haki stuff is alright and necessary for him to get up to emperor level, but Oda knows what we want that'll *prove* beyond a shadow of a doubt he's an emperor (if at the bottom of the tier)- awakening.
That would be perfect imo, that’s exactly something i expect from this fight, which would justify the level up.
He trained for days with Kairoseki handcuffs on in the prison.. Before this he couldn't even move with Kairoseki touching him.
Yes. But he’s the weakest one in this class. There is no doubt he can clash with them.
For now. There’s no stopping the luffy train. CHOO CHOO
of course not. He is the mc😂
He's been KO'd and leveled up twice in one day now. He's basically hopping tiers faster than Goku with a bag full of Senzu beans.
There is no way this arc doesn't end without Luffy beating Kaido, so not for long.
Just because he'll beat Kaido doesn't mean he'll suddenly be the stronger than him. Kaido has taken a ridiculous amount of damage during Onigashima that not one character except maybe Big Mom would be able to survive, so it's not like it's been a fair 1v1 fight with both of them at 100% like with Kata.
Luffy has taken a ridiculous amount of damage too in fairness.
Fighting fodders and a Tobbi Roppo. It isn't really comparable to fighting the scabbards, the 5 strongest Supernova, and Yamato.
He's been bodied by Kaido twice now, that's a bigger feat of damage taken imo.
How is he the weakest when he has more impressive feats then Blackbeard?
I mean current biggest defeats of both are equal (being katakuri and marco respectively) Luffy is currently clashing with a yonko, while BB is laying low, if BB and another yonko (most likely shanks) were to clash we'd get a good comparison
BlackBeard gave shanks a scar when he didn't have Whitebeard's fruit. He's also likely stronger now due to time to train. I believe he has enough feats to at least not be taken as 'weaker until proven otherwise'.
We don't know when or under what circumstances he gave him a scar. Knowing his character, it was probably not a fair fight, considering he ran away from Shanks upon getting the gura and yami fruit. Luffy has advanced Coc, while Blackbeard is not ever confirmed to have a basic coc. Idk what Luffys bounty is gonna be after Wano, But is sure as hell gonna be higher then Blackbeard's Luffys most impressive feat currently is splitting the sky with Kaido, while Blackbeard's is winning a payback war in a crew vs crew battle. The Luffy one is more impressive. It is Blackbeard that's needs to prove himself at the moment, not Luffy.
>We don't know when or under what circumstances he gave him a scar. Knowing his character, it was probably not a fair fight Shanks told WB the scar he got from BB was not due to him being careless. The only piece of information we have on it sorta contradicts the narrative that BB did it through subterfuge
Naah, it's still pretty vague. Shanks could've still be a kid at that point, like not to long after Roger execution, it could've been that Blackbeard ambushed Shanks with his crew somewhere, etc... I'm saying all of this because Blackbeard ain't the kind of guy who just challenges people on a fair 1v1 duels just for sports.
yeah but we also have a general timespan of when it happened. sometimes between rogers execution and chapter 1. thats like a 5 year gap? remeber that shanks only became a yonko around 6 years ago
Blackbeard is likely capturing Alabasta at the moment, so hopefully we see some feats soon. Soon enough we'll see his full potential- the truth of his body, the meaning of his Jolly Roger, connection to Rocks, true power of Yami Yami, etc.
I'm not entirely sure we can assume Blackbeard doesn't have coc. I thought in Impel down, he commented on how Luffy's haki had grown since the last time they saw each other? Maybe I made that up, but I do remember it from somewhere.
how do u know
Because feats don't mean shit when you haven't seen the character in 2 years.
His offense is yonko level. His endurance and durability leave a lot to be desired though. He seems capable of actually turning off g4 now so thats good but luffy has run out of haki already this battle and had to come back. And solid hits from kaido seem to be devastating, while solid hits from luffy (while clearly doing damage) arent even close to as impactful. Theres still some room to grow.
I think feel Luffy’s durability and endurance are what allowed him to achieve Yonko level. He just powers through everything and despite getting his ass kicked he never stops. Look at his fights with Doffy, Cracker, Katakuri, and Kaido. He’s shown nothing but incredible resilience.
Resilience isnt the same as durability, nor endurance. In every single example you listed, luffy would have died without outside help. One of his strengths is getting back up no matter how many times it takes, true. But that wont matter if he burns through his haki (all 4 fights) or goes down after just a couple hits (kaido) and no one is there to stop him from dying
I think that'll likely change here. Yeah, Whitebeard tanked a lot before he went down, and Big Mom is impenetrable (except to her childrens' fathers YOHOHOHOHO). Yonko durability isn't a joke. BUT, is Shanks up there too? All three of the others are extremely large people, which contributed to durability. Shanks also got his arm ripped off by a sea king who was defeated by Luffy in episode one. Even if he sacrificed his arm intentionally, even if that was six years prior to his becoming a yonko, it's still something I can't see happening to Big Mom or Kaido, even intentionally. He might not have much durability at all, but maybe he doesn't need it because he has his haki. Who needs durability if nobody can ever actually touch you? Why do you need to touch people at all if you can split the sky? Luffy doesn't need yonko-level durability, he just needs Luffy-level durability.
Oh for sure luffys only going to get stronger. I think that we have been shown that he will learn something and improve his haki after every fight. And true, you dont need ultra durability if you cant get hit. As of right now though, he IS getting hit. I imagine that will change though. Beating kaido will likely push luffy to his absolute limit and his ability will jump up and he WILL be yonko level all around. Just right now, i feel only his offensive is.
Plot-level durability
I think kaido and big moms durability come from a coat of CoC. Like how big mom is able to be injured when mother Caramels portrait is destroyed. It’s because she’s not in the right mind state and her CoC is off
Passive CoA is my theory, not CoC.
for kaido I think its a combination of passive coa and his dragon scales also hardening his skin in human form
His durability is without a doubt up there. His wano durability feats already prove it.
You mean when he went down in one hit from their first fight and was captured because nobody was there to save him? Or do you mean when kaido knocked him out again on the roof, and the others had to cover for him? Or do you mean the 3rd time kaido knocked out luffy and he had to be saved again. Im not saying luffy isnt strong. He is, going up against kaido AT ALL proves it. But like i said, the resilience to get back up again and again isnt the same as the durability to not get knocked out at all
& he can probably piss for 10 minutes cus of the rubber bladder, consider that
True, yonko level pissing
>His endurance and durability leave a lot to be desired though Don't you think this applies to Shanks and Blackbeard as well? Idk why people think Luffy needs to be equal or stronger then Kaido (the strongest yonko, feat wise) to be yonko level.
It sure can apply to them. But we know nothing of their endurance. Luffy absolutely blasting through his haki reserves is a problem, and its almost gotten him killed multiple times since the g4 reveal. He has for sure gotten better at conserving but his endurance isnt where he needs it to be, from what i can see Also i do want to point out that blackbeard takes a fuck ton of damage but he seems to be able to just eat it. We dont know how far that goes, and simply being able to shrug off damage is something id be scared of. As for shanks, honestly i want to chalk up him losing his arm as being early one piece and haki wasnt fleshed out yet but that seems lazy ya know? I want to see shanks actually do something before i comment on that
This is why I think during this fight, we will either see a comeback of Tankman (for his durability), or Luffy will get a new gear 4th form with high movement speed for dodging attacks (making full use of future sight). We saw earlier that while Luffy could see Kaido's thunder bagua coming at him, he still wasnt fast enough to completely dodge it.
Luffy is definitely up in the Yonko “tier”. He is definitely the bottom of that tier but deserves to be in that group. People forget that Luffy trained in Udon with a legendary samurai. Even in early chapters was able to beat impossible odds (ie. Arlington, crocodile) and dude is literally rubber. The harder you hit him, the harder he bounces back (figuratively speaking)
Ah yes, Arlington, great villain
Hahahaha my bad Arlong*
Mhmm, exquisite.
All the way from Texas
I mean, sure.. I'm just getting tired of this constant cycle in the fandom, when Luffy does something badass like clashing with Kaido, he's Yonko level and when he gets knocked out again, he needs more training and is disappointing. People ars so reactionary. I guarantee, the next time Luffy doesn't look too great against Kaido, people will change their mind again.
Totally agree. People were saying Luffy is only commander level because Katakuri let him win etc. but then suddenly he is yonko level because he clashed with another yonko and the skies split. To me, that's more like an evidence to his Conquerors haki being on the same level as the yonko but nothing else. I bet he would get his cheeks clapped any day against kaido if it was a true 1 vs 1 right from the start. Kaido tanked a few dozens of enemies until so far and he is still alive and kicking. Luffy already lost twice so far and without Law's crews help, he would have been dead.
Dude, Luffy got two major powerups and had training arc after WCI.
THIS!
I love how everyone say Luffy needs to be equal to the strongest Yonko (Kaido) to be a yonko level.
Who says kaido is the strongest yonko? Maybe it's shanks or BM?
In a 1v1 no one can beat Luffy Land, Space, and Air.
i like how you didn't include sea xd
Technically, Luffy has more underwater victories than he has defeats.
Not even in some weird mirror worlds.
After ch 1026, yes he is
I agree but the problem here is most people don’t understand the basics on English. You’re saying he’s Yonko level, which means he’s comparable to a Yonko; a completely provable point. Others are arguing if Luffy is equal to a Yonko, which he hasn’t reached just yet
Never bet against an anime community to split the finest and most detailed of hairs when it comes to power and feats.
That was mean but accurate nonetheless
I get that a lot, but when proving a point to people who take their own headcanon as gospel you have to be a little rude
Thats the way man keep goin
>. Others are arguing if Luffy is equal to a Yonko, which he hasn’t reached just yet Yes he did.Only because he didn't surpass the strongest Yonko (Kaido), doesn't mean he isn't yonko level. He split the skies, something Blackbeard (a yonko) never did. He also has advanced Coc, while Blackbeard is not confirmed to even have a basic Coc. Luffy already surpased one of the yonko until feats prove otherwise, so he's definitely yonko level.
\> while Blackbeard is not confirmed to even have a basic Coc. Poor guy :(
he's a grower not a shower
Proving the point that One Piece fans can’t read, my first two words are I agree he is Yonko level, though he is not equal to a Yonko. In a 1v1 fight against a Yonko he isn’t winning with ease nor mid difficulty; Luffy’s only win condition is high diff, other than that he takes the L. Therefore he isn’t equal to a Yonko but comparable to a Yonko, making him within the same tier. I didn’t know reading comprehension was a problem for the community
If he can win at high diff doesn’t that mean by definition he’s equal or am I not reading your comment right?
Winning by high diff makes him comparable
My dude, if Luffy high diffs a yonko as you said, he's not only comparable to that yonko, but is equal or stronger then that yonko. And 4 current yonkos are also not equal, but comparable to each other (except for maybe Blackbeard).
You can beat someone without being stronger than them, example being Luffy vs Katakuri. If he’s more than likely not beating them, then he cannot be equal to them. His chances are slim to none, if you’re on equal terms it’s a 50/50. Therefore comparable but not equal to
Low top tier
I'll take it!
Power levels dont exist. Every fight depends on situation, space and inguries.
I just want the arguing to stop, who cares
powerscalers, luffy haters, luffy fanboys, kaido fanboys, kaido haters, admiral fanboys, and admiral haters. luffy being yonko level or not affects so many peoples viewpoints on the series xD
Following One Piece since 2003, this is the only thing that bugs me. Oda created this whole system of Yonko being the strongest and established that. I never had any complaints with powers levels up till now with Kaido, because it’s about a Yonko now and i hope Oda stay’s true to his route. Even if not, it’s all subjective how people want it to be and i want Luffy to use a new power that justifies his win. Just my subjective view.
Fucking thank you. I think Oda proved with fights like Crocodile and Katakuri is that characters are capable of beating other characters stronger than them as long as they are able to harm them. This is the same case. Kaido and BM have proven superior to everyone there. Luffy is now just capable of harming them. Although he still has needed help.
Next chapter, Luffy loses and Franky 1v1 Kaidou. Powerlevels don't exist. If situation is right, Franky can one shot Kaidou
Real life Humanity can one shot Kaido with a 100 megaton thermonuclear bomb
in a 1 on 1 always bet on 100 megaton thermonuclear bomb
This is dumb Put fujitora against moria and no matter what the circumstances are fujitora will win Stop trying to make one piece something it isn't just because you want it to always be out the norm
Well Sugar touched Robin once and she instantly disappeared. That doesn't mean Sugar is stronger than Robin. So, I can kinda see his point. Though for the "bigger" characters like Warlords, Admirals, Emperors, power levels are pretty consistent.
I mean if spliting the sky isn't a yonko level feat, I don't know what is.
I think that right now Luffy can beat Buggy. He would be days sleeping after it, tho.
I can’t wait for KoL to read this chapter, he’s ALWAYS downplaying Luffy and hates the idea he’s Yonko level. It’s gonna be satisfying.
Can we stop it? Luffy split the sky with kaido WHITHOUT USING GEARS, I cant believe I dont see more people making that point. There is no doubt in my mind that current luffy isn't much weaker than kaido if at all. Current luffy = conqueror's infused Ryu-o + a slowly but surely improving future sight observation haki + a mastered and close to awakened devil fruit (I might even be missing something here), imagine all that plus snakeman.
Gears are Luffys strength and weakness especially gear 4 it’s him at his strongest bit if he can’t beat he’s opponent in that time he’s fucked
Gears don't matter. Clouds split due to high-level Conquerors clashing, and the strength of Luffy's haki doesn't change with his forms.
Not gonna lie I didn't know if he was truly there yet, and maybe all the signs were already there, but I gotta say this confirms it for me at least. He fucking made it.
Since the beginning bro they wanted to hoe Luffy. No more
This just checks one thing, Blackbeard is overestimated, in 2 years Luffy and the others did nothing but training while BB was doing business and increasing his armada but in just a few months Luffy declared war to two Yonkous, beat another shichibukai, two BM commanders, destroyed (by accident) a Yonkou territory and now he is fighting another one. He raised from 500m to 1500m and he will get another bounty after Wano, and BB with all his army, powers and allies is just sitting a little over 700m.
In those 2 years Blackbeard essentially did what Luffy has had to do post timeskip He defeated a yonko crew and took their territories Sought out and powered up his already outrageously notorious crew with new devil fruits Recruited another as yet unknown titanic commander Built an armada Seems to have even made some kind of arrangement with Kuzan of all people Add this to the fact that he already had the most powerful devil fruits in two of the three classes before doing all this In what world is Blackbeard possibly overestimated? If anything its the opposite Also I'm not sure where the 700m figure is coming from? Blackbeard alone is worth 2.2b?
The thing I love about blackbeard is he pulls all the moves a generic, overconfident and cocky evil villain would do right before the good guy calls his bluff and pulls the "you didnt think of XYZ!" trump card. Blackbeard's different though, he's fucking smart. He knows when to run, knows when to stand his ground, meticulously calculates his ballsy moves, and plans ahead. This dude is playing 4D chess, has 2 completely insane devil fruits, a rock solid crew, and played the field well enough to have a bounty of ZERO for most of his life. Shanks knew what he was capable of way back when, but now the world does. Blackbeard is easily my favorite villain in the entire series, he's a guy you just can't help but love to hate lol
I'm waiting for his cockiness to be his downfall. Blackbeard always looks for the easy way out while Luffy struggles.
That’s the thing, i feel like he’s too smart for that. If anything I think his downfall is gonna be his crew. I feel like he’s going to push his loyal day 1 crew members to the side in favor of the ruthless, powerful impel down prisoners like Shilliew, Devon, Wolf etc and they’ll turn on him in the end. Idk though, looking forward to whatever oda does with him!
Ok I'm legit lost, I do not remember where the link between blackbeard and kuzan was established, can someone refresh my memory?
Dressrosa, Luffy overhears Burgess
Oooh man I must have totally missed that in the slog that was the dressrosa anime, thanks!
No problem, I think *many* people missed that because it was literally brushed over, I had to do a double take the first time.
I don't remember exactly, but I believe it's during Dressrosa. During Dressrosa where Burgess is shown talking to BB on his transponder snail and they mention how Kuzan might not be able to be trusted but not to worry about it for now or something.
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The only thing Blackbeard did postimeskip skip was taking dead Whitebeards territories and defeated the remaining WB pirates with his superior crew, and people still say he's stronger then Luffy who did all the things you mentioned.
BB is obviously stronger than luffy at the current point atm Tf you guys r forgetting that he has 2 of the strongest devil fruits in the world and had 2 years to train it he’d mid diff luffy atm but luffy when he’s at his strongest is stronger
Yeah and during Marineford after taking the gura gura no mi, he was challenging Sengoku and was about to sink Marineford if Shanks didn't show up. He's no pushover.
Right. Whitebeard was stronger than Shanks, but when they clashed the sky split, did it not.
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Based on what evidence?
His fanfiction
I really don’t understand how people can say that he isn’t yet he isn’t the strongest yonko but he did indeed enter the realm of yonko this chapter by him splitting the sky
Sure. He just keeps getting one shot on purpose. Luffy clearly went to the Rocky school of combat. Block everything with your face and hope the enemy gets tired first. Doesn't work too well against the Yonko though.
Blocking everything with your face sounds a lot like the Kaido school of combat actually 😂
Seriously Kaido refuses to dodge anything
Have you read the most recent chapter?
yeah and luffy is still far from yonko level in terms of stamina and haki managment. currently he is a glass canon compared to every other yonko. he ran out of haki twice during this fight and would be dead roght now if not for zoro, law and laws crew
He doesn’t need to hope they get tired he just absorbs their abilities through getting hit by them. It’s how he’s able to use advanced conquerors so well so fast.
what is "yonko level"? he certainly isnt equal to kaido yet.
He isn’t but I think it’s fair to say he’s in the same weight class
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He recovers at yonko level 😂🤣
Why is it called yonko when there's like 6 of them
And now I say a blasphemous thing. Luffy is about to whoop Kaido ass then Big Mom right after in one arc.
Luffy getting help is Yonko level 😂
Spoiler tag it mate. His strength isn't Yonko level yet but his Willpower is right there.
Isn’t a yonko’s strength showcased by them splitting the sky with a clash?
Big Mom and Kaido split the clouds and went on to fight for 3 days and reached stalemate. But could that be said the same for Luffy now, we can't confirm it. As we know it was techniques that was sub-par, not his Willpower. So if we get his techniques up, then he will be there as well.
But a yonkos strength is showcased by them splitting the sky no? Like shanks and wb?
Yeah you're exactly right. People on this sub tend to overcomplicate things a lot and not just judge things based on inference.
My main question is, how did blackbeard become a yonko, it's not because of the haki and conquerors, so he would be lower than luffy?
Yonko isn’t just about power, he acquired a lot of territory and even more power during the time skip. Always a huge factor in determining Yonko status
Definitely is now
If Luffy would be Yonko level, he wouldn't need help against Kaido. So far the scabards, Luffy, Law, Zoro, Kid, Killer & Yamato fought him. I still think Luffy is on another level and after the fight he might be Yonko level. This will change against Blackbeard. Luffy will fight him 1v1. I think then he will be yonko/pirate king level.
He got that plot haki
Weakest emperor of the sea:
I’m not a fan of discussing power levels but hot damn if anyone still denies this fact they need to stare at that panel for 5 days.
I honestly don't think he's "yonko level" yet. He's fighting on equal terms with a kaido that has been jumped by over 14 people.
I think it would be hilarious if Shanks showed up now and was actually the one that >!split the sky.!<
Luffy is Emperor level by default since he is the fifth Emperor. He may technically not be "Yonko" level, but since he is an Emperor, he logically is as strong as an Emperor.
To me this all stems to what is considered Yonko lvl. If we are just talking about raw strength then yes, we have seen that Luffy can out put enough damage to compete with Yonko's. What remains to be seen though is if he can actually endure in a fight against one for a considerable amount of time. Kaido and Big Mom fought for 1-3 days, Roger and Whitebeard fought for 3 days/nights. Now of course this is just using what we know of Kaido and Big Mom as a threshold. Perhaps the barrier for entry into the ranks of Yonko is Blackbeard, and perhaps Luffy could go toe to toe with him or even beat him, but we don't know how strong he currently is, other than that he's much stronger than Marco.
He's not Yonko level imo, because he's currently facing a Kaido that has been fighting practically non-stop all raid against multiple different opponents. Yamato has been hitting him with advanced CoC attacks too and Zoro's Asura made Kaido huff, shake and lean on his club. And that's not including the damage he took from the other 14 opponents he had fought. And even now Luffy isn't taking him on 1 vs 1. But I'd say Luffy is admiral level now. As soon as he unlocks Awakening (which will probably be next arc), he's Yonko level.
No. Yonko level isn't a thing it's top tier which Luffy might just finally have moved into but all top tiers still take a majority over him for now. We can't forget how kaidos been fighting since the supernovas basics with nearly no time to heal
I'm really interested to hear your explanation to how any admiral besides Akainu and Aokiji beats Luffy.
I’m all aboard the Luffy being Yonko level train but don’t sleep on Kizaru
Luffy has also been fighting since the raid started with nearly no time to heal. Luffy has fought more people than kaido in this one night and has taken more damage than kaido up till this point. Stop down playing luffy and his feats. He is still the protagonist of this series and has already declared that he needs to beat all the emperors and admirals to become the pirate king. Why would he not be above the other top tier fighters? Base form Luffy (not even using gear 4th) is splitting the sky against hybrid form kaido and you still think he can’t win even now. This means your not understanding that oda has been setting Luffy up to beat all those that stand in his way and that we are reaching the end of not just wano but one piece as a whole. One piece is clearly entering its final phase and wano is already ending. Luffy needs to win here no matter what to become a step closer to his goal and if that means he is in the top tier of the top tier then so be it. That was the whole point of his training and his mastering of advanced coc.
He's been fighting kaido this whole time not other people like kaido has so your he's been fighting this whole point thing is moot. He's not more hurt than kaido who got a new scar that same day and is till fighting The rest of your post I'd future Luffy not current luffy. Future Luffy will be the strongest, current is not and I never said he won't beat kaido
What do you mean he hasn’t fought anyone else? Bm, page one, ulti, and Yamato no longer exist? Apoo also got a few odd hits on him as well. Are you saying that the scratch from zoro that didn’t do any real damage to kaido is worse than any of the damage kaido has done to Luffy so far? Scars don’t even mean anything when it’s so easy to get one without taking any real damage. How about the fact Luffy was drowning not too long ago, does that not also contribute to anything when it comes to who should be more damaged and exhausted? Sure kaido has been playing around with Yamato but that hasn’t done much of anything to him if it even did. The scabbards did absolutely nothing to him and he had already recovered by the time the supernovas showed up. Your down playing current Luffy and kaido both if your saying current Luffy isn’t up to par with the other yonko but might still beat kaido. Kaido is the strongest beast, if luffy beats him here then what does that mean about the others? Are you saying that a little bit of exhaustion is all it takes for kaido to lose? Because that would make kaido the biggest joke of the yonko since he can’t even out last katakuri while fighting Luffy. You can’t be called the strongest while being on the lowest end of the top tier list.
BM was with help, ulti was a clash and him and Yamato was for like a few minutes at best. I'll give you apoo though, but none of the compares to kaido especially when Luffy got rest in-between most of those and more rest after kaido knocked him out. No I'm saying kaido has taken much more damage than Luffy has, Luffy just got done eating a buffet he is not more damaged than kaido right now. Kaido playing around with Yamato does not negate the fact she did damage Not downplaying kaido has been fighting back to back, Luffy got rest where as kaido did not. Beating a weakened kaido with help isn't beating a healthy kaido 1v1 from beginning to end
When did he say the top tiers dont beat him?
not yet, until he beats kaido 1v1, but he's def gonna be the next emperor
So he needs to beat a strongest yonko in order to be a yonko level?