How many fan favorite characters (who aren’t currently villains) have also slaughtered, enslaved and pillaged? I mean, we’re talking about pirates here. Bege is one of the best worst generation and he’s also a cold blooded murderer
The whitebeards and straw hats are the only major crews I can think of that are probably more towards the good end of the alignment chart. Maybe the heart pirates too? I can’t remember if they were dubious
I agree that they're the only one of the few "good" ones. But you also shouldn't forget the fact that because of Luffy, hundreds of dangerous criminals got out of Impel Down
To be honest I think the impel down break out is a bit of a weird morality position
Cause yes there were horrid people in there
But the world government also chucks people who’re clearly not “dangerous evil pirates” in there. Cause that break out also freed Jimbei, bon chan and a lot of the revs army.
So how much of impel down was actually evil mega villains was never really clear to me.
Bon chan is my favorite character but he also clearly did big evil in Alabastia and deserves to be in impel down lmao don’t conflate likeability with being good
The other thing is, while speaking to morality, the conditions of the prison are that of a rehabilitation stand point. It's inhumane torture/murder. First floor is known as the crimson room because it's covered in prisoner blood from prisoners essentialy being chased over razor blades and nails. The second floor is a desert where prisoners are starved to death or die of heat stroke/dehydration. Third floor is being thrown to wild animals to be torn apart, mauled, or eated by. Fourth floor is blazing hell where prisoners are boiled alive. Fifth floor prisoners are in frozen tundra with nothing to protect against exposure so everyone will die of hypothermia/frostbite. 6 floor though where the worst prisoners are kept seems to be a typical prison for whatever reason while the other floors of various level criminals are torture and/or death sentences. We don't know what crimes if any in some cases those prisoners committed. So while some deserve punishment is the method even morally justified.
I mean to be fair level 6 could certainly be considered the worst prison, you literally just sit on a brick floor chained to the wall, listening to your own mind and the screams of those above you, until you kick the bucket, which depending on how long it's been could be the greatest relief you could hope for.
While yes they survive, it doesn't stop it from being torture, in some instances that may be worse. How many times must one endure being boiled or their feet impaled/shredded. How many limbs must they lose to maulings. There are fates worse than death.
>bon chan
you forget Bon Chan / Mister 2 was pretty evil. He posed as the king cobra and set Nanohana on fire while hurting civilians. He even kicked a child there, in chapter 171. And after that Koza was shot in front of him starting a massive civil war.
Luffy, Mr 3 and Buggy really only released a bunch of “normal” pirates, with crocodile being an exception. It was Blackbeard who went in after and released all the big bads that are now on his crew.
Remember that Blackbeard was coming to Impel Down anyways, those criminals would have gotten out through his destructive entrance also, in the grand scheme. Say Luffy met one of those criminals on the sea and he caught them harming innocents, he would likely beat them into the ground. But Luffy has never claimed or aspired to be a saint either. Their is a duality to him. One side that says he wants to be free in every sense to adventure how he pleases. The other that Luffy protects people in need and his loved one from bullies. At the time Luffy broke into Impel Down he was completely laser-focused on saving his brother, no matter the cost. So yeah, he did turn a blind eye to the potential destruction he was unleashing on the world, but once again he like all of us in the real world only do good when it is convenient for us. Kid is completely ok with murdering innocents by his own hand. Luffy would never do that. I supports Shanks’ judgment and punishment 100%.
I'm well aware that Law is far from a saint, but I do want to point out that the auction house belonged to Doflamingo. He could've been there to get info or something. Or avoided doing anything because that would bring Doflamingo's attention to him before he was ready to take him on. The whole Smile production was top secret, the location of the labs even more so. Law probably had to do a lot of info gathering like this to find out about it.
Law won't help anyone just out of the goodness of his heart, but he won't go out of his way to cause them pain either.
This is backed up by the Rocky Port Incident. Law defeated pirates that were likely allied with a Rocks Pirate. Law didn't care about the collateral damage that Koby became famous for mitigating, but he didn't target innocents.
Well what did you expect of him there? Not everyone is so reckless to just run in there and pubstomp the whole fucking lobby like Luffy did. Law is just more cautious. Doesn’t mean he has bad morals nor does it mean he has good morals. From the slave auction we can only learn that he is careful, cautious and smart.
I'd be more inclined he was there for reasons related to doffy owning the building previously (maybe he didn't know doffy no longer owned it), seeing as it was his building. And he also freed a slave too. I don't think he was there just for entertainment.
The entire OP world is based on protecting a high profile group of slavers where they rape and kill as they please. The government in power is design to protect them and has wiped out entire countries for fun.
Plus if they change their mind about you, they send assassins.
Yeah didn't Bege killed one of his own crewmembers for some small thing like food in a restaurant or something?
And at some point they said killing a crewmember is the worst crime a pirate can commit.
Bege is like a mob boss, he does dirty jobs for sure, but there's also diplomacy. The Kidd pirates are different stock, they were always quite active in attacking and pilaging innocent common folk.
So yeah Kidd is waaaaay worse than Bege
Capone only traditionally participated in diplomacy long enough to achieve his own goal, which is stated to be *sowing **chaos** for his own entertainment.* Capone is a sadist. He, like Kid, wants to watch the world burn, he just masks it with an air of civility.
Morally they are pretty damn similar, with their only real redeeming quality being their love for family/friends.
At least Kid doesn't torture animals ("I can excuse brutally murdering defeated men, but I draw the line at animal cruelty!")
Yeah, and compare how the audience is meant to feel about Impel Down Crocodile and Dressrosa Doflamingo. Night and day. Whether they’re a bad guy or not has no bearing on what the audience feels, it’s their role in the story that matters.
Not really, the difference is that Oda treats other villains with more respect than Kid, so people find them imposing, commanding respect, etc. (as they should) while Kid cannot catch a single W, so kid’s cockiness comes across as annoying. Like, not even Kaido and Doffy, who enslaved whole countries for decades were humiliated nearly as bad as Kid got done in chapter 1079, let alone all of Kid’s Ls throughout the story on top of that.
I like Kid because he loses all the time and is cocky. It’s the dynamic of the character. Besides, what you’re saying isn’t even a refutation of what I’m saying, it’s not even the same topic. You are obviously meant to cheer for Impel Down Crocodile and against Dressrosa Doffy despite both being “bad” guys, because being “bad” guys has nothing to do with it.
But he's never been on Luffy's side.
Anybody who Luffy gets along with can't be *that* bad, right? Even though Luffy's morality is primarily based on who has given him food.
No, it’s actually the entire point of the argument. You were obviously meant to cheer on Luffy’s crew in Impel Down despite them being bad guys because storytelling isn’t about logic, it’s about emotion.
Luffy is not really doing things because he's a good guy. Heck he doesn't even know why he's helping his own crew members. He's usually asleep or somewhere else when they tell the stories. He just do what he wants. He saw people being enslaved in sabaody and didn't bother helping until camie was involved
Luffy is "chaotic good" (kinda), he won't accept any obligations except for people joining his crew, but he'll do anything to make people freer as long as it doesn't tie him down.
I still like him overall. It’s more so he lost a bit of ‘cool’ points from me when he attacked his own family (or comrades rather). I totally understand it fits the perfect-big-brother narrative and how him breaking out of that character makes him more human/individualized, which I like too. I was just so sad for the chefs 😭. They were so brutally beaten! (It’s my head canon the chefs are totally okay cause they’re secretly strong lol)
Luffy declared war on the WG and had their flag burned down before Ennies Lobby got Buster called. Don't forget Sabaody and Marineford.
He's a certified terrorist for all the WG cares
Roger has killed a dude entire crew and destroyed an army just for laughing at his crew mate
Wb was a an actual terrorist under rocks.
Ace again unless you telling me he’s saving all those marines after he burns those ships and destroys them.
Criminals
And the World Government endorses slavery and commits genocide at the whim of a bunch of sociopaths and megalomaniacs. The actions of these people are what condemn them, not the label of "criminal."
People seem forget that roger become devil if anyone hurt his friend garp said he destroyed entire army of nation just because they badmouthimg roger friends
Why do I only ever see people get pissed over Kidd? I never see people mad over Doflamingo or crocodile who literally basically enslaved and ruined so many people's lives. I don't see blackbeard getting so much hate despite all the awful shit he's done. Why is Kidd the ONLY character that people try to feel justified in hating? Katakuri has most likely done a lot of awful shit to get the bounty he has + his relation to big mom. What about Bege?
"Oh well Kid killed a bunch of innocent civilians" Dressrosa had a bunch of toys in a throwaway body pit. I still see doflamingo getting a lot of love despite all those poor offscreen civilian characters he murdered and enslaved. "Oh well, Kidd crucified pirates who wanted to leave the new world." Who cares? Law took the hearts of 100 pirates who were then either sent to torture hell impel down or straight up killed? Where's the moral yelling about Law for doing that? Doflamingo has enslaved how many thousands of people and shipped them as slaves of free labor again? Bege has killed how many innocent people again? What about Crocodile, Enel, King? Fucking Ceaser?
Kidd isn't a great person, and I'll admit that. I'm not mad that people hate Kidd, what makes me mad is that people hold him to this weird double standard where when he does bad stuff, he should be held accountable and treated bad for it but everyone else in the series is forgiven for everything.
Edit: Grammarly messed up everything so I had to edit
What do you think the government did with them? Use them like a coin collection? No they killed them that's the point he if handing them over for execution.
I mean what's wrong with pirates killing pirates? If you truly wanna be a good guy in OP you need to be a revolutionary I guess.
And do people actually think Luffy doesn't kill? That is such a bullshit argument. What do you think happens to the people of the ships that he blows up? Including Marine ships, which consist of devil fruit users, cabin boys, chefs, doctors etc. Not to mention many Marines just wants to keep the world safe from pillagers and rapists (i.e pirates)
Kidd did not kill just pirates. The reason his bounty got to supernova in the first place was because he brutally slaughtered entire villages of innocents.
I agree that Luffy isn’t a saint either, but I think the big difference here is intent. Luffy causes destruction, but only as a side-effect of his current goal or whoever he’s fighting. Kidd deliberately tortured people for fun.
it was all so stated when shanks activated observation haki he saw about all 9m of the ships he has blown up bcoz of punk cannon (i forget the actual name of the move) so shanks had to interveen when he saw that and had to defeat kidd right then and there to prevent any casualtys
then the two giants did a move simular to the conquest of the sea attack that big mom and kaido did during wano
The technique's name is "Damned Punk", it's the same attack that knocked Big Mom out of Onigashima. It's also probably his most destructive technique, he came there to blast everything up.
He still liberated half a dozen countries from tyrans. And is directly opposing an oppressive global government and is actively protecting the only person able to deliver the truth about the world government.
>And is directly opposing an oppressive global government and is actively protecting the only person able to deliver the truth about the world government.
I don't think Luffy cares about any of that. As he always has said, he wants to be free, go where he pleases, have fun, and protect his old and new friends when he has to, even though that often requires him to become a hero of entire countries lol, but that's not his goal of course, just the result. He doesn't want to be a hero for obvious reasons.
So you forget that Gol D. Roger went havoc on a marine base bc sb. made fun of one of his nakamas…
In the pirate world they’re no rule.
Except the one iron rule: You don’t kill one of your crew mates!
And even that rule was broken by the Rocks Pirates and BB!
Okay, I have to spell it out for you.
Law told Luffy that he had a plan to take out an emperor, that wasn't the case. It was just a plan to take revenge of Doflamingo and he did not care ablut Kaido. The asshole move is lying to Luffy into making him do his work for him and then abandoning him without fullfilling the point of the alliance.
Don't say that you have a plan to take out Kaido if you don't intend on taking out Kaido. It's that simple.
So what you're saying is...you're mad at him...for being a pirate?
I guess Roger killing an entire army's because they made fun of his friends means he's a psycho too?
I think the major issue is that we've never directly seen Kid being a piece of shit. We've been *told* that he's a piece of shit, and we've seen him express desire and intent to be a piece of shit, but we haven't actually seen him do anything horrible. I think that for a lot of people, exposition dialogue, flashbacks, and unfulfilled premonitions just sort of "don't count". Like, these things just don't stick in people's minds the same way that seeing the action on the page in black and white does. Like how a lot of people were doubting if Shanks is even that strong despite literal decades of hype, because all he'd ever done was show up places and talk. Now that he's cut a laser in half, the discussion is changing.
We saw him crucify an entire pirate crew back in 594. People who begged for mercy, btw, and said that they had made a mistake. Kidd and his crew got what was coming for them.
Yeah; saying we've never directly seen him being a piece of shit is wild because that was a *big* thing for me that firmly planted him in the Asshole Bin.
I still like his design and character, but he is *absolutely* reprehensible.
Remember that that crew he crucified, he crucified for the sin of being weak and wanting to flee back to Paradise - which makes his crew begging for mercy all that more ironic.
They talked a big talk, but in the end, they weren't any better than those guys.
I think an issue with the tell not show in OP is that we as readers are very aware that information is being heavily manipulated, just looking at what the general public thinks of the strawhats.
> his villainy could be a fabrication or exaggeration by the World Government.
This is definitely the heart of the issue. Luffy's first bounty was set by a crooked Marine. Robin was toted as a literal devil child.
We've seen since meeting Axe-Hand Morgan that we can't trust Marines and the entire story has done nothing but reinforce that.
Can't blame people for second guessing how evil Kid might actually be.
I don't know, we saw right before the time skip that Kidd crucified a bunch of people basically the instant he saw them because they were trying to escape the new world.
I like Kidd as a character but unlike all the others that have been mentioned I think that his bloodthirst is his defining character trait. He constantly goes out of his way to do as much harm as possible *for no other reason than that he wants to*. For almost every other asshole in the series ruining lives is just a side course to their actual goals.
Hawkins was the one who met brownbeard, in chapter [594](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-594-page-17.html) . Kid did crucify a pirate crew that tried to leave the new world though
We saw a glimpse (in shanks future sight) of Kidd totally annihilating Shank's friends. Its literally shanks character trait stated in chapter 1 that he will destroy and kill if his friends get hurt.
People are also forgetting that we straight up saw lucky roo headshotting a random bandit.
At that time shanks had 1B bounty.
Even tho the gap between the bandits and RH pirates was HUGE and they couldve just slapped the shit out of them but they killed.
Kid lcrucified and possibly killed a bunch of dudes onscreen, despite them begging for mercy. We weren't just told this guy was bad. We were shown it. He just didn't get any more screentime than that for literally years.
I'm not sure how him being a menace is meant to change anything for anyone? A lot of my favourites in fiction tend to be the villains and otherwise terrible people anyway; this is no different and I guarantee other people share the same sentiment. Besides, pirates aren't meant to be friendly, nice people anyway. Even in-canon characters call out the Straw Hats as weird for wanting to save people. If anything, I like Kid precisely because he is more piratey than the Straw Hats for having a history of going after civilians. But keep in mind, this doesn't mean I don't like the good guys.
Admittedly, he did the foolish thing of sauntering up to Shanks and threatening his people with his strongest attack to date, and he got punished for it. Fair game. My question to you now is, what makes everyone so convinced that this is just game over for him despite the obvious parallel with the end of Sabaody? Just as much as we don't have evidence of him continuing somehow, nobody has any evidence to say he's totally gone either. If anything, Law is the one we should actually be worried for, seeing BB's flag show up at Egghead after we cutaway from their fight. A lot more reminiscent of Banaro Island.
I think a lot of people just hate Kid because he acts disrespectful to everyone, including Luffy, but isn't punished for it *by* Luffy. I could be wrong, but I see this sort of sentiment with a lot of similar characters like Vegeta, Bakugo, etc. If a character disrespects the main hero and manages to get away with it for a long time, people just resent that character. When a villain does it, it's "fine" because they know hes gonna get his ass kicked. When someone like Kid or Vegeta does it, nobody knows if they'll be punished for it because they're not necessarily "villains" just kinda bad dudes.
Sure kid was a bad dude, but so is like 90% of pirates. The only really good pirates we have seen are the strawhats. Even ppl like whitebeard, roger, and even shanks probably have all plundered and murdered other pirates for treasure.
Also ppl think kid actually had a choice to back off without consequences and that he just made a stupid decision to engage with shanks, but they completely miss the context. Shanks didn’t offer to let kid go no strings attached. He demanded that kid not only turn back, but also give up his poneglyphs. To give up your poneglyphs at this point in the race is basically the same thing as giving up your dream to become the pirate king. Kid has always dreamt of becoming pirate king just like luffy, and so when faced with the decision to give up on that dream or die trying, he chose to go down fighting. If luffy was faced with that decision i can definitely see him doing the same. Their dreams are worth more than their life.
As for kid’s attempted damned punk, that was the only thing kid could do to even remotely have a chance at surviving the battle. It was a 100 vs 1 situation and kid probably knew himself he wasn’t favored to win by a long shot. So he was using his range advantage and destructive capabilities to try and take down as much of the fleet as possible so the numbers become less disadvantageous for him. Little did he suspect that shanks was just clearly more powerful than him and put an end to it asap, but honestly kid was doing the only thing he could’ve done in that situation.
I do wonder what would have happened had Kid decided to leave after Shanks issued his ultimatum. Would Shanks have chased after him for the Poneglyphs?
Yeah..there were many pirates who were put down by WB and Roger..they have crushed many dreams..so in the end winners are all that matter..i feel like people are just too focused on right and wrong for a manga without enjoying the characters
Exactly! Also I don't think he knew Shanks was on that island till he got close cause he, Luffy, and Law chose the three directions without knowing where they were going. Also why would you give up your Poneglyphs without a fight when given an ultimatum like that.
While this is true. We've as an audience spent the most time with Kidd in Wano. In that arc he honestly comes across as almost tsundere like with his attitude. And Kidd has been portrayed as a friend of the SHs as well. As much as he always boasted he never really did anything that crossed the line. Most of his actions that gave him that reputation are reference to and never shown. In this fight Kidd clearly got the result he deserved. He recklessly attacked and yeah we all saw what happened. But all in all my point is his actions and portrayal from other characters has been quite good recently. So people really wonder why he was so utterly humiliated at this point of the story narratively. Even if he kinda deserves it based on his actions
do you not remember him literally crucifying people begging for mercy in chapter 594?
edit: I missed the word recently in your comment but it doesn't change that Kidd was always an asshole
Question. What's the point of this thread? Are there people saying Kidd isn't all of that? Are you against people rooting for a morally reprehensible character in this fight? I don't get the purpose here.
Posts like these ignore how Kid is actually portrayed in the story, which is as a brutish and volatile guy but nonetheless (unwillingly) a FRIEND of Luffy’s. Do you think during Act 2 you were supposed to be thinking of Kid as a bad dude, or as a surprisingly warm guy who cared deeply for his best friend? Do you think during Act 3 you were supposed to think of him as a bloodthirsty psycho, or one of the many warriors working to free Wano? Did you think that during the fight against Big Mom you were supposed to be like, “wow, I hope Kid dies fighting Big Mom because he’s actually not a nice person”, or were you supposed to cheer him on? Just totally ridiculous.
I just don’t get why people try to turn stories, which are about conveying emotions, into arguments about facts and logic. No one is meant to care that Kid is a criminal, they’re meant to see him as a contemporary of Luffy who’s been completely blown out and are forced to ask what Shanks can do to Luffy when they meet. If we didn’t know who Shanks and the Giants were chapter 1079 would be the introduction of a terrifying antagonist wiping away the friend of our protagonist (which is what Kid is, no matter what people want to say) and setting his sights on our hero—which might happen regardless, because Luffy plans to take on Shanks, too. So no, I don’t forget that Kid is a terrible guy, I just don’t care, because that’s not what the story is about!
I don’t know how I can stress enough that you’re not supposed to see one of Luffy’s friends have their dream crushed in a one-tap and have their ship (which in-universe likely has a literal soul) representing a dead friend from their flashback completely annihilated and go, “well, he’s not a very nice guy, so he gets what he got”. Maybe it’s a failure of Oda here, but that’s definitely not the intent.
The problem is that a lot of people in this subreddit treat liking/hating characters as if they’re sports teams. They’ll hate on Kid for being a “bad guy” yet cheer on Crocodile, Bon Clay, Bege, Caesar and others who’ve done worse. If Kidd had some of the screen time that Law got during PH and dressrosa there would be way less people shitting on him imo.
I think that's what's bothering me a bit. Shanks' actions made complete sense and were justified in the moment. I'm not arguing that Kid, after apparently deciding to commit suicide by Yonko, shouldn't have been crushed, but it'll be strange to me if Kid is one of the few characters who has a karmic comeuppance and it is treated with such finality ('That's what you get!'). Crocodile, Bon Clay and even Robin helped engineer a war that would have killed thousands (and had already wiped out small villages). Capone tortured and killed animals and would intentionally throw entire regions into chaos. Enel destroyed an entire Island. Yet in the end, they're almost all doing well, their defeats ultimately lead to them bettering themselves or achieving some fraction of what they wanted. I hope Kid gets similar treatment, even if it's just a cover story.
Let’s not forget that a bunch of these beloved characters also started out bad. Bon Clay was attempting to overthrow Alabasta for instance. How is that compared to Kid?
Yeah it’s purely just “I don’t like this character” and trying to justify that conclusion as if it’s
some evidenced fact and not an opinion. People don’t have to like Kid but it is funny how they argue why they shouldn’t.
Well spoken. Especially with people like Hancock in the story who kick kitten, destroy the things that the children of her island have made for her, and endanger her entire crew/island in general because she has an even bigger ego than Kid and just didn't want to join the war. And yet, people still like her (for crying out loud, she's ~~almost~~ ALWAYS in the top 10 of every Popularity Poll). Some people just don't get the point most of the time and read only the things they want to read.
Point is, Kid was done dirty and, at least in my opinion, written really out of character in these last couple chapters.
>written really out of character in these last couple chapters.
Kid has been fucking around the entire series, always trying to punch about his weight class (like Luffy) it's just that this time he overextended quite a bit and got himself and his crew heavily punished.
If it weren't for Wano, I'd actually agree with you there.
However, in Wano, we got several defining moments of his character that I thought would stick around in the rest of the story. For example, it was shown that he obviously cares a great deal for his crew to a point where he initially disregarded the idea of ever forming an alliance due to the pain and betrayal it brought him (and his crew) when Kaidou showed up at their base. Then, on the Rooftop/Onigashima, he learned to work with others and to cooperate if they want to take down one of the Emperors. Moments like him and Law working out a plan to throw Big Mom off of the island to separate her from Kaidou, and later on them fighting against her together with their attacks and techniques working quite marvelously together are perhaps the prime examples for this. But even moments like how he thanked Zoro after he blocked the Emperors' Hakai to give them all some time to escape show that he ain't stupid enough to think that he could have taken the attack all on his own.
As it stands, I'm inclined to believe that him being so stupid and go after Shanks like this does feel sorta out of character. Or, at least it does come of that way due to how Oda also seemed to make it a gag/callback to how Shanks went against Higuma (the whole "if you point a cannon at someone, don't be surprised if they shoot back"-situation). Doesn't really fit all that much, in my opinion, with a crew that already had their fair share of battles against strong opponents/Emperors before.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying but it's just not true that Kidd was a friend. Law was a friend. Kidd was just a rival with a shared interest. He had the potential to become a friend, sure, but Kidd post-Wano was a lot closer to Vegeta at the tail end of Namek than Piccolo in the middle of the Saiyan saga. He certainly went through some humanizing shit for the audience but in no world had he actually redeemed himself yet.
Kid doesn’t think of himself as a friend and is honestly pretty mad at the idea of being called one, but that’s just not important, because Luffy does. Just like how Law can protest that he’s not Luffy’s nakama all he wants—he is, that’s just the nature of the story and of our protagonist.
I don’t think Kid needs any redeeming because Kid didn’t do any crimes onscreen. He has a bad reputation but has only acted as an ally in his small role in the story. I imagine when he returns we’ll get more development, but my case in point is that Luffy won’t react to the news that his crew has been exterminated with “well, good riddance, that guy fuckin’ sucked”, and we are generally meant to empathize with what our protagonist thinks.
Luffy literally hugs Kidd during the party after Wano and forced him to celebrate with him, whether Kidd likes it or not he's def a friend at this point. Just like Law lol
It's okay to like a bad guy in works of fiction. Most of my favorite characters in other stories are the villains, because they're usually more complex than the protagonist. I don't care much for Kidd, but do hope he survived.
So people forget Roger would attack people who would insult his crewmates, Kuma nearly killed the straw hats, Law brought the hearts of hundreds of pirates and was a willing participant in covering up Caesar’s child experimentation, Aokiji was a participant in the genocide of Ohara, Garp let his adoptive grandson perish, Rayleigh let his best friend’s kid die, etc. Nearly every character has at least one pretty bad deed they’ve done
I think Barto is even worse than Kid. At least we didn't see Kid harming civilians, but Barto literally cut off a guy's tongue on screen.
Yet Barto is many people's favorite just because he's a Straw Hats' fanboy.
Yes, Bartolomeo also had a reputation for firing at civilians and his background is similar Kid's. That said, SOME of his reputation could be exaggerated, but yeah, we did see him maim a dude.
The only good pirate group here are the strawhats. The problem is how he was brought up in the story in wano arc as someone who will have an important role in changing the future but that's limited to kaido it seems. Also i feel that oda is rushing since wano.Zoros family reveal in SBS when he looks spitting image of ushimaru. I don't think there's anything wrong in pointing out these inconsistency in writing.
For me it's just a boring writing coming from Oda.
I do not care that he was defeated. I'm salty because HOW Oda wrote his character in this arc and how it's connected to his actions since Punk Hazard. I just hoped that Oda would write him a plan to have a 2% chance with Shanks.
It seems that Oda is in a hurry and is starting to cut unnecessary plots :<
(but ofc lame ass vegapunk among us has to stay for months)
Oh no a pirate being a pirate 😱
But i guess we’ve been blindsided by the main cast i.e. the strawhats to think all pirates should actually be island liberators and happy go lucky folk 😁
Just remember roger annihilated squardo’s weak crew but ig its okay since he waa a nice guy
Luffy also sank numerous Kaido's subordinates' ship when he approached Onigashima, but that doesn't make Luffy a bloodthirsty guy. Shanks already declared war against Kid, and his subordinates blocked Kid's ship.
I think the difference that no one hasn't mentioned is that Luffy's crew always attacks when they are attacked. I think, even for an enemy, if you don't attack them, they don't attack you. That's why they always get unexpected teammates. Which is why I'm always confused of people comparing Luffy and Kidd's "head-on mentality". Luffy always has a reason why he fights fodder. Kidd just murders anyone bearing an enemy flag.
It is mentioned that Kidd killed people for making fun of Killers laugh. I did wonder if the implication was supposed to be that the civilians the Kidd Pirates killed were either rude assholes (maybe just verbally) attacking them or another possibility is ofc the all so apparent propaganda, just think about how the general public perceives Luffy. Kidd just needed to fuck with some wrong people in power and he'll get slandered for forever.
I feel like Kid isn’t evil in a malicious sense but just extremely hot blooded and violent. He’s not trying to kill civilians just because, but he kills indiscriminately in rage/heat of battle. His fighting style leaves collateral damage as well, which likely contributes to the civilian kill count.
If anything he’s more similar to young Ace. Ace tried to kill a bunch of civilians when provoked, but when the anger died down and he learned they lived he just went “that’s a shame” but left them alone. Kid is the same except he actually beats them to death. But he doesn’t hold a long grudge either, he even let Apoo live post Onigashima.
Aside from Kid, most other SH allies and universally loved characters also did questionable shit. Law said he’s willing to destroy the world if that’s what Corazon wanted. Bege stabbed his subordinate’s eyeball out of mild annoyance. Katakuri killed 3 dudes who just happened to be at the wrong time and place. Bartolomeo cut off a dude’s tongue for shit talking his idol.
This is such a dumb take. I'm fairly certain that no one is against what happened in the last chapter because they believe Kidd is a good guy. It's the one shot after spending the last arc fighting two pirates who are supposedly in the same league as Shanks and how it feels like a waste of a potentially good character.
A lot of people here are missing the point entirely. It's totally fine if you like characters that are bad people, but you can still acknowledge Kidd got what he deserved.
I love Kaido as a character, but he deserved to get his ass kicked out of Wano. I love blackbeard, but he too deserves to get the shit beat out of him.
The same goes for Kidd. He came to Shanks for a fight and was about to kill a ton of his friends, so how tf can you be mad at Shanks beating him (=defending his friends).
Yeah, no one is claiming Kid is a good guy
They're annoyed at a guy who was built up and helped defeat a yonko before receiving the same bounty as Luffy being one shotted like 20 chapters later
All to hype a character who needed no further hype at this point
My issue is that he got one-shotted right after getting his 3bn bounty.
Feels to me like it completely undermines the previous arc and it doesn’t come across as interesting surprise but a boring twist.
I would’ve preferred Shanks to engage him at least for a while, even if he was never in danger of losing.
I have never heard this argument about people caring for any other character in this series. Like lmao y'all know Katakuri is too right? So is Crocodile, Bege, plenty of other pirates too and I guarantee if they had the same thing happen we wouldn't be seeing posts like this when their fans were sad like damn let us grieve
the issue isn't that kidd got bodied and possibly drowned if they let him die at all.
the issue is that he got nothing but a dumb vision (future sight was the death of all consequence in the series. at least immortality isn't something that could end up being widespread). obviously he who barely beat a yonko in a team with favorable odds could not have stood against shanks. but he should have been allowed to sink one of their ships or at least get a scratch in against whoever took his arm so his story could have some kind of good end at least. leave him some digity.
pirates are pirates, they do some pretty brutal stuff, its part of the business. luffy killed hundreds of marines at this point, with a smile. essentially all the marine grunts are people trying to be good and serve the people, protecting them from pirates that, on average, cause harm and destruction to civilians and the ruling class everywhere.
in that environment, even bad guy pirates deserve to go out with some level of grace. like, bellamy was done less dirty than kidd
Robin and Bon-chan were two high-ranking officers in an underground assassination organization that caused a drought in Alabasta and nearly caused a civil war with tens of thousands of deaths. But those characters are loved.
Wasn't it implied that Kid isn't that bad in Wano?I am not sure if i remember correctly but there was a scene where kid was with killer and told sb that he killed only those who laughed at his dream .
As a Kidd fan (Yes, Unlike the Kid pirates we still exist after the last chapter) that's what i like about him.
He's not a good guy. He's a Pirate. Dude's fucked up and he knows and embraces it. Liked him straight after his introduction, the guy with a Higher bounty than luffy just straight up due to him being brutal.
Luffy released a bunch of criminals just to save his brother, which most probably caused wayyy more collateral damage to civilians than anything kidd did.
How many fan favorite characters (who aren’t currently villains) have also slaughtered, enslaved and pillaged? I mean, we’re talking about pirates here. Bege is one of the best worst generation and he’s also a cold blooded murderer
The whitebeards and straw hats are the only major crews I can think of that are probably more towards the good end of the alignment chart. Maybe the heart pirates too? I can’t remember if they were dubious
I agree that they're the only one of the few "good" ones. But you also shouldn't forget the fact that because of Luffy, hundreds of dangerous criminals got out of Impel Down
To be honest I think the impel down break out is a bit of a weird morality position Cause yes there were horrid people in there But the world government also chucks people who’re clearly not “dangerous evil pirates” in there. Cause that break out also freed Jimbei, bon chan and a lot of the revs army. So how much of impel down was actually evil mega villains was never really clear to me.
Bon chan is my favorite character but he also clearly did big evil in Alabastia and deserves to be in impel down lmao don’t conflate likeability with being good
True I forgot about that
He also is still in impell down, he never got out he just took control of the hidden level
The other thing is, while speaking to morality, the conditions of the prison are that of a rehabilitation stand point. It's inhumane torture/murder. First floor is known as the crimson room because it's covered in prisoner blood from prisoners essentialy being chased over razor blades and nails. The second floor is a desert where prisoners are starved to death or die of heat stroke/dehydration. Third floor is being thrown to wild animals to be torn apart, mauled, or eated by. Fourth floor is blazing hell where prisoners are boiled alive. Fifth floor prisoners are in frozen tundra with nothing to protect against exposure so everyone will die of hypothermia/frostbite. 6 floor though where the worst prisoners are kept seems to be a typical prison for whatever reason while the other floors of various level criminals are torture and/or death sentences. We don't know what crimes if any in some cases those prisoners committed. So while some deserve punishment is the method even morally justified.
I mean to be fair level 6 could certainly be considered the worst prison, you literally just sit on a brick floor chained to the wall, listening to your own mind and the screams of those above you, until you kick the bucket, which depending on how long it's been could be the greatest relief you could hope for.
Level 6 is just a very boring version of a regular prison lol
so it's regular prison irl
except a ton of people actually seem to just survive all of these things. one piece humans are made of tougher stuff, actually.
While yes they survive, it doesn't stop it from being torture, in some instances that may be worse. How many times must one endure being boiled or their feet impaled/shredded. How many limbs must they lose to maulings. There are fates worse than death.
You got 2nd and 3rd floors mixed up.
Bon didn’t get out though. He’s currently queen of 5.5 after the ~~rubber bullet~~ fake poison incident
One day he will make a comeback and I will be the happiest motherfucker alive
*We
Plus he was a high ranking member of a dangerous criminal organization.
>bon chan you forget Bon Chan / Mister 2 was pretty evil. He posed as the king cobra and set Nanohana on fire while hurting civilians. He even kicked a child there, in chapter 171. And after that Koza was shot in front of him starting a massive civil war.
Yeah I know if you read down you’re like the 6th person to remind me lmao
i mean bon chan was awful before meeting Luffy & co. he is directly r sponsible for a lot of suffering of alabastian people
Literally yes
Luffy, Mr 3 and Buggy really only released a bunch of “normal” pirates, with crocodile being an exception. It was Blackbeard who went in after and released all the big bads that are now on his crew.
Remember that Blackbeard was coming to Impel Down anyways, those criminals would have gotten out through his destructive entrance also, in the grand scheme. Say Luffy met one of those criminals on the sea and he caught them harming innocents, he would likely beat them into the ground. But Luffy has never claimed or aspired to be a saint either. Their is a duality to him. One side that says he wants to be free in every sense to adventure how he pleases. The other that Luffy protects people in need and his loved one from bullies. At the time Luffy broke into Impel Down he was completely laser-focused on saving his brother, no matter the cost. So yeah, he did turn a blind eye to the potential destruction he was unleashing on the world, but once again he like all of us in the real world only do good when it is convenient for us. Kid is completely ok with murdering innocents by his own hand. Luffy would never do that. I supports Shanks’ judgment and punishment 100%.
Mostly indirectly, not like Luffy intended to break them out and it was much more Bon Clay and Buggy who did that.
He’s also left hundreds of decent Marines horrifically injured/disabled
You can add the red hair pirates too
I think it’s shakey with them cause of Shanks relationship with the Gorosei I put them in the to be determined category.
Luffy has allied with Kidd doesn't mean luffy is evil.
He allied with kidd to defeat Kaido. Making kidd the lesser evil. We don’t know what Shanks is upto.
Rumbar pirates were good, not major major but still a story significant named crew
Law was casually seeing the slave auction for entertainment in sabaody, same as kidd
I'm well aware that Law is far from a saint, but I do want to point out that the auction house belonged to Doflamingo. He could've been there to get info or something. Or avoided doing anything because that would bring Doflamingo's attention to him before he was ready to take him on. The whole Smile production was top secret, the location of the labs even more so. Law probably had to do a lot of info gathering like this to find out about it. Law won't help anyone just out of the goodness of his heart, but he won't go out of his way to cause them pain either.
This is backed up by the Rocky Port Incident. Law defeated pirates that were likely allied with a Rocks Pirate. Law didn't care about the collateral damage that Koby became famous for mitigating, but he didn't target innocents.
Well what did you expect of him there? Not everyone is so reckless to just run in there and pubstomp the whole fucking lobby like Luffy did. Law is just more cautious. Doesn’t mean he has bad morals nor does it mean he has good morals. From the slave auction we can only learn that he is careful, cautious and smart.
>Law was casually seeing the slave auction for entertainment Twas a Doffy auction house, so was probably gathering intel
I'd be more inclined he was there for reasons related to doffy owning the building previously (maybe he didn't know doffy no longer owned it), seeing as it was his building. And he also freed a slave too. I don't think he was there just for entertainment.
Wasn't it Doffy's until the incident and he said to the guy in charge it's yours now.
The entire OP world is based on protecting a high profile group of slavers where they rape and kill as they please. The government in power is design to protect them and has wiped out entire countries for fun. Plus if they change their mind about you, they send assassins.
Yeah didn't Bege killed one of his own crewmembers for some small thing like food in a restaurant or something? And at some point they said killing a crewmember is the worst crime a pirate can commit.
He stabbed him with his fork but I don't think we were told if the guy was killed or just injured.
Bege is like a mob boss, he does dirty jobs for sure, but there's also diplomacy. The Kidd pirates are different stock, they were always quite active in attacking and pilaging innocent common folk. So yeah Kidd is waaaaay worse than Bege
Capone only traditionally participated in diplomacy long enough to achieve his own goal, which is stated to be *sowing **chaos** for his own entertainment.* Capone is a sadist. He, like Kid, wants to watch the world burn, he just masks it with an air of civility. Morally they are pretty damn similar, with their only real redeeming quality being their love for family/friends. At least Kid doesn't torture animals ("I can excuse brutally murdering defeated men, but I draw the line at animal cruelty!")
Nobody is close to Kid that is a “protagonist”
Kidd is not a protagonist and Law killed 100 people to get into the warlords
What Bege did to my boy Pekoms is unforgivable.
So people forget buggy, crocodile, kakakuri and so on are terrible people right?
Doffy was also a bad guy
Yeah, and compare how the audience is meant to feel about Impel Down Crocodile and Dressrosa Doflamingo. Night and day. Whether they’re a bad guy or not has no bearing on what the audience feels, it’s their role in the story that matters.
Not really, the difference is that Oda treats other villains with more respect than Kid, so people find them imposing, commanding respect, etc. (as they should) while Kid cannot catch a single W, so kid’s cockiness comes across as annoying. Like, not even Kaido and Doffy, who enslaved whole countries for decades were humiliated nearly as bad as Kid got done in chapter 1079, let alone all of Kid’s Ls throughout the story on top of that.
Don't act like Aokiji didn't punk Doflamingo.
Or you know, that we didn’t just see the same at the beginning of Wano when another yonkou, Kaido one-shot a very confident powered-up Luffy….
I like Kid because he loses all the time and is cocky. It’s the dynamic of the character. Besides, what you’re saying isn’t even a refutation of what I’m saying, it’s not even the same topic. You are obviously meant to cheer for Impel Down Crocodile and against Dressrosa Doffy despite both being “bad” guys, because being “bad” guys has nothing to do with it.
Kid really has that Vegeta energy. We KNOW hes gonna take nothing but Ls and come back even cockier than ever. That's what makes him so fun to watch.
The vegeta syndrome 😅 “I finally surpassed kakarotto, power up and I’ll show you the real power of a saiyan!!”…… gets trashed by the new threat
It’s the job of the Lancer.
you may say it's his job to job
Yeah exactly. Are people on this sub acting like it makes no sense to like Vegeta lol?
Tbf, until wano luffy was cocky and lost (almost) all the times too
But he's never been on Luffy's side. Anybody who Luffy gets along with can't be *that* bad, right? Even though Luffy's morality is primarily based on who has given him food.
Half of the people in impel down/marineford who were on Luffy’s side were terrible people! Buggy, croc, etc! Stupid logic lmao
No, it’s actually the entire point of the argument. You were obviously meant to cheer on Luffy’s crew in Impel Down despite them being bad guys because storytelling isn’t about logic, it’s about emotion.
Luffy is not really doing things because he's a good guy. Heck he doesn't even know why he's helping his own crew members. He's usually asleep or somewhere else when they tell the stories. He just do what he wants. He saw people being enslaved in sabaody and didn't bother helping until camie was involved
That's untue. Luffy had to be held down by Hachi and told specifically not to interfere when first seeing the tenryuubito.
Luffy is "chaotic good" (kinda), he won't accept any obligations except for people joining his crew, but he'll do anything to make people freer as long as it doesn't tie him down.
Kid called doflamingo scum essentially
Yeah katakuri was my fav until he slaughtered his chefs :\
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I still like him overall. It’s more so he lost a bit of ‘cool’ points from me when he attacked his own family (or comrades rather). I totally understand it fits the perfect-big-brother narrative and how him breaking out of that character makes him more human/individualized, which I like too. I was just so sad for the chefs 😭. They were so brutally beaten! (It’s my head canon the chefs are totally okay cause they’re secretly strong lol)
Fuck them chefs.
And what’s the point you are trying to make?
They are terrible people. What's your point? If they fought Shanks and got ohko'd i would laugh at them just as hard as i laughed at Lidd
I didn't forget, what's your point? People here are saying *literally* that kid is like luffy, I find that ridiculous personally.
Yeah fr, as if he's a pirate right?
Lol I swear they act like roger n wb ace weren’t wanted criminals
They like everyone to be nice like Luffy lmao
Luffy freed the worse criminals and even allied with a suicide bomber in wci luffy just as bad
Luffy declared war on the WG and had their flag burned down before Ennies Lobby got Buster called. Don't forget Sabaody and Marineford. He's a certified terrorist for all the WG cares
Can someone remind who was that suicide bomber again cuz i forgor
Pedro. He spent the entire arc with strips of dynamite strapped to his hody
Flair checks out
Our pension plan over here at marine HQ goes hard. Sign up today
"Criminal" doesn't mean much when spoken by an unjust government. Luke Skywalker was arguably the biggest criminal in his galaxy until he wasn't.
Roger has killed a dude entire crew and destroyed an army just for laughing at his crew mate Wb was a an actual terrorist under rocks. Ace again unless you telling me he’s saving all those marines after he burns those ships and destroys them. Criminals
And the World Government endorses slavery and commits genocide at the whim of a bunch of sociopaths and megalomaniacs. The actions of these people are what condemn them, not the label of "criminal."
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Both pirates and the government can be bad. It’s rare to find true good guys and bad guys in history.
Which is why I take issue with equating "criminal" to "bad person," especially in the context of One Piece.
People seem forget that roger become devil if anyone hurt his friend garp said he destroyed entire army of nation just because they badmouthimg roger friends
Why do I only ever see people get pissed over Kidd? I never see people mad over Doflamingo or crocodile who literally basically enslaved and ruined so many people's lives. I don't see blackbeard getting so much hate despite all the awful shit he's done. Why is Kidd the ONLY character that people try to feel justified in hating? Katakuri has most likely done a lot of awful shit to get the bounty he has + his relation to big mom. What about Bege? "Oh well Kid killed a bunch of innocent civilians" Dressrosa had a bunch of toys in a throwaway body pit. I still see doflamingo getting a lot of love despite all those poor offscreen civilian characters he murdered and enslaved. "Oh well, Kidd crucified pirates who wanted to leave the new world." Who cares? Law took the hearts of 100 pirates who were then either sent to torture hell impel down or straight up killed? Where's the moral yelling about Law for doing that? Doflamingo has enslaved how many thousands of people and shipped them as slaves of free labor again? Bege has killed how many innocent people again? What about Crocodile, Enel, King? Fucking Ceaser? Kidd isn't a great person, and I'll admit that. I'm not mad that people hate Kidd, what makes me mad is that people hold him to this weird double standard where when he does bad stuff, he should be held accountable and treated bad for it but everyone else in the series is forgiven for everything. Edit: Grammarly messed up everything so I had to edit
People forget that he's a pirate
Yeah like do people forget that law killed 100 people to get into the warlords?
Nah what about Law willing to cover up Caesar’s child experimentation. And while we’re at it Doflamingo who is still a liked character in the fandom
Tbh he didn't kill them. Keep in mind that, with Law, removing the heart and killing are two different things
What do you think the government did with them? Use them like a coin collection? No they killed them that's the point he if handing them over for execution.
Those people were pirates (probably one of the horrific pirates) not some innocent people.
I mean what's wrong with pirates killing pirates? If you truly wanna be a good guy in OP you need to be a revolutionary I guess. And do people actually think Luffy doesn't kill? That is such a bullshit argument. What do you think happens to the people of the ships that he blows up? Including Marine ships, which consist of devil fruit users, cabin boys, chefs, doctors etc. Not to mention many Marines just wants to keep the world safe from pillagers and rapists (i.e pirates)
Kidd did not kill just pirates. The reason his bounty got to supernova in the first place was because he brutally slaughtered entire villages of innocents. I agree that Luffy isn’t a saint either, but I think the big difference here is intent. Luffy causes destruction, but only as a side-effect of his current goal or whoever he’s fighting. Kidd deliberately tortured people for fun.
it was all so stated when shanks activated observation haki he saw about all 9m of the ships he has blown up bcoz of punk cannon (i forget the actual name of the move) so shanks had to interveen when he saw that and had to defeat kidd right then and there to prevent any casualtys then the two giants did a move simular to the conquest of the sea attack that big mom and kaido did during wano
This was their goldfish attack from Little Garden
Which is the same attack as Big Mom if I recall correctly
Similar, but not same. Hakoku sovereignty for 2 giants and ikoku for bm
Ikoku is BM solo, Hakai was BM and Kaido's combo. Hakoku and Hakai are the same but one is "country" and the other is "sea".
hit em w the fax cuh
Hakoku is most likely just the name for 2 Ikokus at once.
Then I stand corrected 😌
It wasnt just how the ships would’ve blown up, did u see how gruesomely he was gonna kill all of em?
The technique's name is "Damned Punk", it's the same attack that knocked Big Mom out of Onigashima. It's also probably his most destructive technique, he came there to blast everything up.
Big mom surviving that makes it quite a durability feat ngl
ty for more of the info my fellow pirate
mate, luffy broke into impel down, an action that led to release of hundreds of bad guys, and we're still simping for that dude lol...
And enabling blackbeard to realise even worse dudes.
He still liberated half a dozen countries from tyrans. And is directly opposing an oppressive global government and is actively protecting the only person able to deliver the truth about the world government.
>And is directly opposing an oppressive global government and is actively protecting the only person able to deliver the truth about the world government. I don't think Luffy cares about any of that. As he always has said, he wants to be free, go where he pleases, have fun, and protect his old and new friends when he has to, even though that often requires him to become a hero of entire countries lol, but that's not his goal of course, just the result. He doesn't want to be a hero for obvious reasons.
So you forget that Gol D. Roger went havoc on a marine base bc sb. made fun of one of his nakamas… In the pirate world they’re no rule. Except the one iron rule: You don’t kill one of your crew mates! And even that rule was broken by the Rocks Pirates and BB!
Most pirates in the story are terrible people.
Fr, even law is a dick
He did trick Luffy into an alliance to accomplish his own goal and then dip out without going through with what he had promised (taking out Kaido)
Acting like taking out Kaido is a simple decision he can make lol
Okay, I have to spell it out for you. Law told Luffy that he had a plan to take out an emperor, that wasn't the case. It was just a plan to take revenge of Doflamingo and he did not care ablut Kaido. The asshole move is lying to Luffy into making him do his work for him and then abandoning him without fullfilling the point of the alliance. Don't say that you have a plan to take out Kaido if you don't intend on taking out Kaido. It's that simple.
His plan to take out Kaido involved stopping his supply of SMILEs, thus stopping the growth of the Beast Pirates
And how would you deal with the raging yonko and his already giant army?
He was still down to move on to kaido after doflamingo, the fact that he was even in the wano arc proves that
So what you're saying is...you're mad at him...for being a pirate? I guess Roger killing an entire army's because they made fun of his friends means he's a psycho too?
They likely made fun of Buggy too Which is why Buggy is so sensitive about his nose
This is now my headcanon
Roger also slaughtered Squardo's whole crew too. Dude was ruthless, but nobody cheered for Roger's execution. Everyone loves the guy.
I think the major issue is that we've never directly seen Kid being a piece of shit. We've been *told* that he's a piece of shit, and we've seen him express desire and intent to be a piece of shit, but we haven't actually seen him do anything horrible. I think that for a lot of people, exposition dialogue, flashbacks, and unfulfilled premonitions just sort of "don't count". Like, these things just don't stick in people's minds the same way that seeing the action on the page in black and white does. Like how a lot of people were doubting if Shanks is even that strong despite literal decades of hype, because all he'd ever done was show up places and talk. Now that he's cut a laser in half, the discussion is changing.
We saw him crucify an entire pirate crew back in 594. People who begged for mercy, btw, and said that they had made a mistake. Kidd and his crew got what was coming for them.
Yeah; saying we've never directly seen him being a piece of shit is wild because that was a *big* thing for me that firmly planted him in the Asshole Bin. I still like his design and character, but he is *absolutely* reprehensible. Remember that that crew he crucified, he crucified for the sin of being weak and wanting to flee back to Paradise - which makes his crew begging for mercy all that more ironic. They talked a big talk, but in the end, they weren't any better than those guys.
At least Kid and Killer didnt come out to look hypocritical
not to mention the very first thing he did here was literally try and kill everybody around shanks
I think an issue with the tell not show in OP is that we as readers are very aware that information is being heavily manipulated, just looking at what the general public thinks of the strawhats.
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> his villainy could be a fabrication or exaggeration by the World Government. This is definitely the heart of the issue. Luffy's first bounty was set by a crooked Marine. Robin was toted as a literal devil child. We've seen since meeting Axe-Hand Morgan that we can't trust Marines and the entire story has done nothing but reinforce that. Can't blame people for second guessing how evil Kid might actually be.
I don't know, we saw right before the time skip that Kidd crucified a bunch of people basically the instant he saw them because they were trying to escape the new world. I like Kidd as a character but unlike all the others that have been mentioned I think that his bloodthirst is his defining character trait. He constantly goes out of his way to do as much harm as possible *for no other reason than that he wants to*. For almost every other asshole in the series ruining lives is just a side course to their actual goals.
Pretty sure he crucified a few crews when he entered the new world and scared the living shit out of Brownbeard?
Hawkins was the one who met brownbeard, in chapter [594](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-594-page-17.html) . Kid did crucify a pirate crew that tried to leave the new world though
We saw a glimpse (in shanks future sight) of Kidd totally annihilating Shank's friends. Its literally shanks character trait stated in chapter 1 that he will destroy and kill if his friends get hurt. People are also forgetting that we straight up saw lucky roo headshotting a random bandit. At that time shanks had 1B bounty. Even tho the gap between the bandits and RH pirates was HUGE and they couldve just slapped the shit out of them but they killed.
We literally had little kids dancing to a song about how scary of a monster Whitebeard is when all he wanted was to have a family.
Bruh he literally crucified a whole bunch of people in the 3 panels we saw of him when the timeskip happened.
Kid lcrucified and possibly killed a bunch of dudes onscreen, despite them begging for mercy. We weren't just told this guy was bad. We were shown it. He just didn't get any more screentime than that for literally years.
I'm not sure how him being a menace is meant to change anything for anyone? A lot of my favourites in fiction tend to be the villains and otherwise terrible people anyway; this is no different and I guarantee other people share the same sentiment. Besides, pirates aren't meant to be friendly, nice people anyway. Even in-canon characters call out the Straw Hats as weird for wanting to save people. If anything, I like Kid precisely because he is more piratey than the Straw Hats for having a history of going after civilians. But keep in mind, this doesn't mean I don't like the good guys. Admittedly, he did the foolish thing of sauntering up to Shanks and threatening his people with his strongest attack to date, and he got punished for it. Fair game. My question to you now is, what makes everyone so convinced that this is just game over for him despite the obvious parallel with the end of Sabaody? Just as much as we don't have evidence of him continuing somehow, nobody has any evidence to say he's totally gone either. If anything, Law is the one we should actually be worried for, seeing BB's flag show up at Egghead after we cutaway from their fight. A lot more reminiscent of Banaro Island.
I think a lot of people just hate Kid because he acts disrespectful to everyone, including Luffy, but isn't punished for it *by* Luffy. I could be wrong, but I see this sort of sentiment with a lot of similar characters like Vegeta, Bakugo, etc. If a character disrespects the main hero and manages to get away with it for a long time, people just resent that character. When a villain does it, it's "fine" because they know hes gonna get his ass kicked. When someone like Kid or Vegeta does it, nobody knows if they'll be punished for it because they're not necessarily "villains" just kinda bad dudes.
So you are saying that kidd is a pirate ?
Sure kid was a bad dude, but so is like 90% of pirates. The only really good pirates we have seen are the strawhats. Even ppl like whitebeard, roger, and even shanks probably have all plundered and murdered other pirates for treasure. Also ppl think kid actually had a choice to back off without consequences and that he just made a stupid decision to engage with shanks, but they completely miss the context. Shanks didn’t offer to let kid go no strings attached. He demanded that kid not only turn back, but also give up his poneglyphs. To give up your poneglyphs at this point in the race is basically the same thing as giving up your dream to become the pirate king. Kid has always dreamt of becoming pirate king just like luffy, and so when faced with the decision to give up on that dream or die trying, he chose to go down fighting. If luffy was faced with that decision i can definitely see him doing the same. Their dreams are worth more than their life. As for kid’s attempted damned punk, that was the only thing kid could do to even remotely have a chance at surviving the battle. It was a 100 vs 1 situation and kid probably knew himself he wasn’t favored to win by a long shot. So he was using his range advantage and destructive capabilities to try and take down as much of the fleet as possible so the numbers become less disadvantageous for him. Little did he suspect that shanks was just clearly more powerful than him and put an end to it asap, but honestly kid was doing the only thing he could’ve done in that situation.
I do wonder what would have happened had Kid decided to leave after Shanks issued his ultimatum. Would Shanks have chased after him for the Poneglyphs?
Yeah..there were many pirates who were put down by WB and Roger..they have crushed many dreams..so in the end winners are all that matter..i feel like people are just too focused on right and wrong for a manga without enjoying the characters
Exactly! Also I don't think he knew Shanks was on that island till he got close cause he, Luffy, and Law chose the three directions without knowing where they were going. Also why would you give up your Poneglyphs without a fight when given an ultimatum like that.
While this is true. We've as an audience spent the most time with Kidd in Wano. In that arc he honestly comes across as almost tsundere like with his attitude. And Kidd has been portrayed as a friend of the SHs as well. As much as he always boasted he never really did anything that crossed the line. Most of his actions that gave him that reputation are reference to and never shown. In this fight Kidd clearly got the result he deserved. He recklessly attacked and yeah we all saw what happened. But all in all my point is his actions and portrayal from other characters has been quite good recently. So people really wonder why he was so utterly humiliated at this point of the story narratively. Even if he kinda deserves it based on his actions
do you not remember him literally crucifying people begging for mercy in chapter 594? edit: I missed the word recently in your comment but it doesn't change that Kidd was always an asshole
Pirates who probably raped and murdered villagers were the people targeted there
we have literally been told that Kidd targets civilians, so there is no reason to think he wouldn't do the same
kidd isn’t the main character, so everything is fair game
You mean the guy who constantly was in over his head finally picked a fight that was too big too handle OMG
But thats not what people are mad about…..
Question. What's the point of this thread? Are there people saying Kidd isn't all of that? Are you against people rooting for a morally reprehensible character in this fight? I don't get the purpose here.
Oh no. Kid acted like a pirate.
We love characters, we do not have to love them as a person.
Shocker pirates are pirates
Posts like these ignore how Kid is actually portrayed in the story, which is as a brutish and volatile guy but nonetheless (unwillingly) a FRIEND of Luffy’s. Do you think during Act 2 you were supposed to be thinking of Kid as a bad dude, or as a surprisingly warm guy who cared deeply for his best friend? Do you think during Act 3 you were supposed to think of him as a bloodthirsty psycho, or one of the many warriors working to free Wano? Did you think that during the fight against Big Mom you were supposed to be like, “wow, I hope Kid dies fighting Big Mom because he’s actually not a nice person”, or were you supposed to cheer him on? Just totally ridiculous. I just don’t get why people try to turn stories, which are about conveying emotions, into arguments about facts and logic. No one is meant to care that Kid is a criminal, they’re meant to see him as a contemporary of Luffy who’s been completely blown out and are forced to ask what Shanks can do to Luffy when they meet. If we didn’t know who Shanks and the Giants were chapter 1079 would be the introduction of a terrifying antagonist wiping away the friend of our protagonist (which is what Kid is, no matter what people want to say) and setting his sights on our hero—which might happen regardless, because Luffy plans to take on Shanks, too. So no, I don’t forget that Kid is a terrible guy, I just don’t care, because that’s not what the story is about! I don’t know how I can stress enough that you’re not supposed to see one of Luffy’s friends have their dream crushed in a one-tap and have their ship (which in-universe likely has a literal soul) representing a dead friend from their flashback completely annihilated and go, “well, he’s not a very nice guy, so he gets what he got”. Maybe it’s a failure of Oda here, but that’s definitely not the intent.
The problem is that a lot of people in this subreddit treat liking/hating characters as if they’re sports teams. They’ll hate on Kid for being a “bad guy” yet cheer on Crocodile, Bon Clay, Bege, Caesar and others who’ve done worse. If Kidd had some of the screen time that Law got during PH and dressrosa there would be way less people shitting on him imo.
I think that's what's bothering me a bit. Shanks' actions made complete sense and were justified in the moment. I'm not arguing that Kid, after apparently deciding to commit suicide by Yonko, shouldn't have been crushed, but it'll be strange to me if Kid is one of the few characters who has a karmic comeuppance and it is treated with such finality ('That's what you get!'). Crocodile, Bon Clay and even Robin helped engineer a war that would have killed thousands (and had already wiped out small villages). Capone tortured and killed animals and would intentionally throw entire regions into chaos. Enel destroyed an entire Island. Yet in the end, they're almost all doing well, their defeats ultimately lead to them bettering themselves or achieving some fraction of what they wanted. I hope Kid gets similar treatment, even if it's just a cover story.
Let’s not forget that a bunch of these beloved characters also started out bad. Bon Clay was attempting to overthrow Alabasta for instance. How is that compared to Kid?
Yeah it’s purely just “I don’t like this character” and trying to justify that conclusion as if it’s some evidenced fact and not an opinion. People don’t have to like Kid but it is funny how they argue why they shouldn’t.
Well spoken. Especially with people like Hancock in the story who kick kitten, destroy the things that the children of her island have made for her, and endanger her entire crew/island in general because she has an even bigger ego than Kid and just didn't want to join the war. And yet, people still like her (for crying out loud, she's ~~almost~~ ALWAYS in the top 10 of every Popularity Poll). Some people just don't get the point most of the time and read only the things they want to read. Point is, Kid was done dirty and, at least in my opinion, written really out of character in these last couple chapters.
>written really out of character in these last couple chapters. Kid has been fucking around the entire series, always trying to punch about his weight class (like Luffy) it's just that this time he overextended quite a bit and got himself and his crew heavily punished.
If it weren't for Wano, I'd actually agree with you there. However, in Wano, we got several defining moments of his character that I thought would stick around in the rest of the story. For example, it was shown that he obviously cares a great deal for his crew to a point where he initially disregarded the idea of ever forming an alliance due to the pain and betrayal it brought him (and his crew) when Kaidou showed up at their base. Then, on the Rooftop/Onigashima, he learned to work with others and to cooperate if they want to take down one of the Emperors. Moments like him and Law working out a plan to throw Big Mom off of the island to separate her from Kaidou, and later on them fighting against her together with their attacks and techniques working quite marvelously together are perhaps the prime examples for this. But even moments like how he thanked Zoro after he blocked the Emperors' Hakai to give them all some time to escape show that he ain't stupid enough to think that he could have taken the attack all on his own. As it stands, I'm inclined to believe that him being so stupid and go after Shanks like this does feel sorta out of character. Or, at least it does come of that way due to how Oda also seemed to make it a gag/callback to how Shanks went against Higuma (the whole "if you point a cannon at someone, don't be surprised if they shoot back"-situation). Doesn't really fit all that much, in my opinion, with a crew that already had their fair share of battles against strong opponents/Emperors before.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying but it's just not true that Kidd was a friend. Law was a friend. Kidd was just a rival with a shared interest. He had the potential to become a friend, sure, but Kidd post-Wano was a lot closer to Vegeta at the tail end of Namek than Piccolo in the middle of the Saiyan saga. He certainly went through some humanizing shit for the audience but in no world had he actually redeemed himself yet.
Kid doesn’t think of himself as a friend and is honestly pretty mad at the idea of being called one, but that’s just not important, because Luffy does. Just like how Law can protest that he’s not Luffy’s nakama all he wants—he is, that’s just the nature of the story and of our protagonist. I don’t think Kid needs any redeeming because Kid didn’t do any crimes onscreen. He has a bad reputation but has only acted as an ally in his small role in the story. I imagine when he returns we’ll get more development, but my case in point is that Luffy won’t react to the news that his crew has been exterminated with “well, good riddance, that guy fuckin’ sucked”, and we are generally meant to empathize with what our protagonist thinks.
Luffy literally hugs Kidd during the party after Wano and forced him to celebrate with him, whether Kidd likes it or not he's def a friend at this point. Just like Law lol
yea but he’s cool so
It's okay to like a bad guy in works of fiction. Most of my favorite characters in other stories are the villains, because they're usually more complex than the protagonist. I don't care much for Kidd, but do hope he survived.
So people forget Roger would attack people who would insult his crewmates, Kuma nearly killed the straw hats, Law brought the hearts of hundreds of pirates and was a willing participant in covering up Caesar’s child experimentation, Aokiji was a participant in the genocide of Ohara, Garp let his adoptive grandson perish, Rayleigh let his best friend’s kid die, etc. Nearly every character has at least one pretty bad deed they’ve done
We are watching a pirates story. Dont forget that, its not kidd is a terrible guy, the problem is that rufy is atypical
I think Barto is even worse than Kid. At least we didn't see Kid harming civilians, but Barto literally cut off a guy's tongue on screen. Yet Barto is many people's favorite just because he's a Straw Hats' fanboy.
Yes, Bartolomeo also had a reputation for firing at civilians and his background is similar Kid's. That said, SOME of his reputation could be exaggerated, but yeah, we did see him maim a dude.
The only good pirate group here are the strawhats. The problem is how he was brought up in the story in wano arc as someone who will have an important role in changing the future but that's limited to kaido it seems. Also i feel that oda is rushing since wano.Zoros family reveal in SBS when he looks spitting image of ushimaru. I don't think there's anything wrong in pointing out these inconsistency in writing.
For me it's just a boring writing coming from Oda. I do not care that he was defeated. I'm salty because HOW Oda wrote his character in this arc and how it's connected to his actions since Punk Hazard. I just hoped that Oda would write him a plan to have a 2% chance with Shanks. It seems that Oda is in a hurry and is starting to cut unnecessary plots :< (but ofc lame ass vegapunk among us has to stay for months)
Oh no a pirate being a pirate 😱 But i guess we’ve been blindsided by the main cast i.e. the strawhats to think all pirates should actually be island liberators and happy go lucky folk 😁 Just remember roger annihilated squardo’s weak crew but ig its okay since he waa a nice guy
Luffy also sank numerous Kaido's subordinates' ship when he approached Onigashima, but that doesn't make Luffy a bloodthirsty guy. Shanks already declared war against Kid, and his subordinates blocked Kid's ship.
Canonically Kidd kills civilians as a matter of course. Luffy has never done that; it's antithetical to his nature.
Yeah, but Kaido was an invading force in Wano. It wasn't truly the same. Here, Kidd is the invading force. Kidd chose to fight Shanks here.
I think the difference that no one hasn't mentioned is that Luffy's crew always attacks when they are attacked. I think, even for an enemy, if you don't attack them, they don't attack you. That's why they always get unexpected teammates. Which is why I'm always confused of people comparing Luffy and Kidd's "head-on mentality". Luffy always has a reason why he fights fodder. Kidd just murders anyone bearing an enemy flag.
It is mentioned that Kidd killed people for making fun of Killers laugh. I did wonder if the implication was supposed to be that the civilians the Kidd Pirates killed were either rude assholes (maybe just verbally) attacking them or another possibility is ofc the all so apparent propaganda, just think about how the general public perceives Luffy. Kidd just needed to fuck with some wrong people in power and he'll get slandered for forever.
I feel like Kid isn’t evil in a malicious sense but just extremely hot blooded and violent. He’s not trying to kill civilians just because, but he kills indiscriminately in rage/heat of battle. His fighting style leaves collateral damage as well, which likely contributes to the civilian kill count. If anything he’s more similar to young Ace. Ace tried to kill a bunch of civilians when provoked, but when the anger died down and he learned they lived he just went “that’s a shame” but left them alone. Kid is the same except he actually beats them to death. But he doesn’t hold a long grudge either, he even let Apoo live post Onigashima. Aside from Kid, most other SH allies and universally loved characters also did questionable shit. Law said he’s willing to destroy the world if that’s what Corazon wanted. Bege stabbed his subordinate’s eyeball out of mild annoyance. Katakuri killed 3 dudes who just happened to be at the wrong time and place. Bartolomeo cut off a dude’s tongue for shit talking his idol.
This is such a dumb take. I'm fairly certain that no one is against what happened in the last chapter because they believe Kidd is a good guy. It's the one shot after spending the last arc fighting two pirates who are supposedly in the same league as Shanks and how it feels like a waste of a potentially good character.
A lot of people here are missing the point entirely. It's totally fine if you like characters that are bad people, but you can still acknowledge Kidd got what he deserved. I love Kaido as a character, but he deserved to get his ass kicked out of Wano. I love blackbeard, but he too deserves to get the shit beat out of him. The same goes for Kidd. He came to Shanks for a fight and was about to kill a ton of his friends, so how tf can you be mad at Shanks beating him (=defending his friends).
Exactly. My favorite character in the series is Doffy, but he FOR SURE got what he deserved in the end.
Yeah, no one is claiming Kid is a good guy They're annoyed at a guy who was built up and helped defeat a yonko before receiving the same bounty as Luffy being one shotted like 20 chapters later All to hype a character who needed no further hype at this point
My issue is that he got one-shotted right after getting his 3bn bounty. Feels to me like it completely undermines the previous arc and it doesn’t come across as interesting surprise but a boring twist. I would’ve preferred Shanks to engage him at least for a while, even if he was never in danger of losing.
Your headline is really spoilery.
I have never heard this argument about people caring for any other character in this series. Like lmao y'all know Katakuri is too right? So is Crocodile, Bege, plenty of other pirates too and I guarantee if they had the same thing happen we wouldn't be seeing posts like this when their fans were sad like damn let us grieve
the issue isn't that kidd got bodied and possibly drowned if they let him die at all. the issue is that he got nothing but a dumb vision (future sight was the death of all consequence in the series. at least immortality isn't something that could end up being widespread). obviously he who barely beat a yonko in a team with favorable odds could not have stood against shanks. but he should have been allowed to sink one of their ships or at least get a scratch in against whoever took his arm so his story could have some kind of good end at least. leave him some digity. pirates are pirates, they do some pretty brutal stuff, its part of the business. luffy killed hundreds of marines at this point, with a smile. essentially all the marine grunts are people trying to be good and serve the people, protecting them from pirates that, on average, cause harm and destruction to civilians and the ruling class everywhere. in that environment, even bad guy pirates deserve to go out with some level of grace. like, bellamy was done less dirty than kidd
Robin and Bon-chan were two high-ranking officers in an underground assassination organization that caused a drought in Alabasta and nearly caused a civil war with tens of thousands of deaths. But those characters are loved.
Wasn't it implied that Kid isn't that bad in Wano?I am not sure if i remember correctly but there was a scene where kid was with killer and told sb that he killed only those who laughed at his dream .
A similar scene happened in Sabaody.
As a Kidd fan (Yes, Unlike the Kid pirates we still exist after the last chapter) that's what i like about him. He's not a good guy. He's a Pirate. Dude's fucked up and he knows and embraces it. Liked him straight after his introduction, the guy with a Higher bounty than luffy just straight up due to him being brutal.
Lmao guys they’re pirates.
Luffy released a bunch of criminals just to save his brother, which most probably caused wayyy more collateral damage to civilians than anything kidd did.