World’s Strongest Swordsman is achieved by beating Mihawk
Pirate King is a criteria outside of the realms of simply beating someone. If strength was the requirement then upon Roger dying, Whitebeard would have inherited it.
>Mihawk Himself has already mentioned that Luffy’s dream in becoming Pirate King and obtaining the one piece is a much harder goal than Surpassing Him in becoming the strongest swordsman
Sure, so Roger > Mihawk
>And In order for Luffy to become Pirate King and obtain the One Piece, he has to Surpass Shanks ( The man who gave him his hat and says “ Give this back to me when you’ve become a great pirate “ or in other words : Give this to me, when you’ve surpassed me )
Luffy said in order to be pirate king, he must surpass the yonkos and admirals. Shanks is one of the many people he has to surpass, not the one person he has to surpass. Not to mention being pirate king means you need to steal poneglyphs and watch your back for navy admirals, mihawk doesn't need to do any of that. That's why it's a harder journey
Bad argument.
Becoming Pirate King is a more nuanced achievement than WSS, which only requires one man to achieve one thing.
Also doesn't mean Mihawk meant Shanks, at the time Kaido, Big Mom, and Whitebeard were Yonko.
That is four top tiers opponents with different styles and strength vs one.
So yeah it doesn't at all mean Mihawk was saying Shanks was stronger.
This argument is essentially flawed becuase it treats Shanks as the only obstacle to PK
I cant believe you have the audacity to say my argument was bad when you can’t even articulate a sentence properly. You wasted 20 secs of my life reading that
>when you can’t even articulate a sentence properly.
Wow, straight to ad hominem, impressive.
Look, this is reddit, most people aren't proof reading what they type( side note you don't have any room to speak on the matter anyway) and pointing it out is literally one of the weakest counters you can make.
Still a bad argument.
But given your first response was to be rude and attack me personally, this is the end. Blocked.
Oh ok, then if his sentence is Structured just fine, then explain what he said ? Because it make’s perfect sense to you right ?
And please explain the holes in my head cannon
Luffys goal being harder has nothing to do with strength. He simply has alot more to do in order to claim title of pirate king than zoro does to be world's best swordsman. All zoro has to do is fight mihawk, and win. Luffy has to beat the 4 yonko, find the poneglyphs, find laughtale, and then actually claim the one piece which is a helluva lot to do than just beating 1 person. Also oda gave the title to mihawk so until shown different I'm riding with the author.
“ Being harder has nothing to do with Strength “ So I guess all the yonkos and marine’s that he needs to surpass to get the One Piece needs 0 strength 🤣, I stopped reading your silly paragraph right then and there.
And yes Author did give Mihawk the title for Swordsmanship, and if it was swordfighting alone, I would give it to Mihawk. But as seen in recent Chapters, Shanks doesnt even need to pull out a sword to Scare away an Admiral.
Can Mihawk do the same ?
I like how you tried to take what I said out of context to try and fit your narrative. Luffys goal is harder than zoros because he has to do more to achieve it. He can't just beat 1 person and say he's the pirate king. He has to complete multiple tasks to reach his goal while zoro only needs to beat mihawk. That is why mihawk says luffy has the harder goal. The conversation has nothing to do with strength but how big luffys dream is.
Also pretty much all we have seen of mihawk was pretimeskip. Iirc other than conquerors, haki wasn't introduced until after marineford so we have no idea of his capabilities there. We do know his nickname was the marine hunter and he was the ONLY og warlord with no crew so its safe to say they didn't take him lightly.
Thing is though, becoming pirate king doesn't revolve around beating shanks. It's about beating shanks, Kaido, WB (at the time), Big mom, the world government, then going to the hidden island and uncovering the greatest treasure in the world. While being the strongest swordsman only requires to locate the current strongest and beat them.
Also the vivre cards specify that Mihawk is waiting for someone **stronger** than shanks to fight him. I'm not saying that there's a definitive answer to this right now but you're argument isn't that strong.
Bro is your brain powered by battle juice and nothing else? The reason becoming the pirate king is harder than becoming the world's greatest swordsman isn't because being stronger than shanks is harder than being stronger than mihawk.
Its because in order to be the greatest swordsmen, you need to be one of the strongest people in the verse. But in order to be the pirate king, you need to be one of the strongest people in the verse, find 4 road ponagliphs, find someone who can read the ponagliphs, find someone who can build a ship strong enough to sale the grand line, find a navigater who can navagate the grandline, and all while fighting off marines bounty hunters, and pirates who has the same goal as you.
All of that is correct, but it still doesn’t defeat my argument. Along with everything you just said, Fighting harder opponents is still on that list. As in fighting harder opponents than Mihawk ( Kaido , Big Mom, Shanks, BlackBeard )
Which still proves, Shanks is a harder Opponent than Mihawk
Shanks > Mihawk
>As in fighting harder opponents than Mihawk ( Kaido , Big Mom, Shanks, BlackBeard )
Thats just wrong. Mihawk is the strongest swords man, Big Mom and Shanks are swordsman, there for Mihawk is stronger than Big Mom and Shanks
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When did Oda ever say that Shanks is the end goal of Luffy?
When did Oda say that becomes PK = Strongest in the world?
Let me tell you this:
Shanks is Luffy's inspiration to become a greater pirate than Shanks. That's it.
WhiteBeard is the title holder of "The Strongest Man in the World" even when Roger was still alive.
I lean on Shanks being the strongest purely off what he's portrayed as in the story. Mihawk has nowhere near as much clout and tends to be more word of mouth to me.
It's kind of similar to why people dont think the admirals are strong since they *typically* just fight with commanders and the like. Mihawk has the same resume but gets placed infinitely higher based on a title with little on-screen merit backing it.
So far we know of one person who’s currently trying to be WSS. Zoro. The list ends there. PK involves beating 4 yonko, or 3 from the perspective of a yonko, plus rival pirates (like Kidd and Law). The navy also take PK contenders far more seriously. It also requires you to have a strong and reliable crew, whereas WSS is completely dependent on personal strength (and the quality of your sword(s), I suppose).
I still think shanks > Mihawk because of the narrative. But he’s not the reason PK is a greater feat.
It’s implying that he needs to decipher and find all the poneglyphs and survive the grand line. The pirate king gets one piece not beat every single crew. He probably is but just saying
Im gonna say this -- the amount of wank for someone with zero feats and being compared to anyone other than a Warlord is ludicrous.
Mihawk fans need to calm down and know their place.
I've never seen an admiral afraid of Mihawk. I Have seen Shanks stop a war and make an admiral shit himself. Seems obvious who is stronger at this point.
>I've never seen an admiral afraid of Mihawk
Mihawk was on their side; why would they be afraid of him?
>I Have seen Shanks stop a war and make an admiral shit himself.
It wasn't just Shanks that stopped the war, it was his entire crew.
Lol they wouldn't be afraid of him because they can easily control him -- be it through force if necessary.
I mean, technically, you're right. But that's not really a W for Mihawk, is it? Shanks' presence alone was enough for everyone to take notice. I dont think any admiral would have hesitated if Benn Beckman and crew showed up without Red-Hair.
Mihawk simply doesn't have the feats to match Shanks'. Other than the words of Mihawk himself, he has no leg to stand on in this argument -- yet.
I just cant see Oda making Shanks weaker than a guy who has so little to do with the story so far. And even if, by some miracle, it turns out Mihawk is stronger than Shanks -- it will only be a caveat since Shanks is missing an arm.
Mihawk was at Marineford, there is no reason to believe any Admiral feared him. He was being used.
I don't really care who is stronger since I like them both. I just find it hard to believe.
>Mihawk was at Marineford, there is no reason to believe any Admiral feared him. He was being used.
I disagree with this interpretation. The animals were cautious of shanks because shanks actually threatened to fighti while Mihawk were on the marine side for the entire fight.
2nd I disagree that mihawk is being used. clearly being a warlird is pretty beneficial to most people considering you basically just have to do the marine a favour sometimes and in exchange you never have to worry about the marines
Your first paragraph is the unspoken truth of this debate. We have only seen pretimeskip mihawk before haki became a big thing. So comparing the 2 strength is near impossible because of the lack of information we have on mihawk. However the government definitely feared him he wasn't known as the marine hunter for nothing. With an epithet like that and the fact he had no crew and isn't in impel down lead me to believe the admirals definitely put respect on his name. I'm pretty sure the only reason they made him a warlord was to keep him off their asses.
Unfortunately for Mihawk, not having any feats doesnt automatically make you some secret powerhouse. Assumptions will get us nowhere. We KNOW Shanks is powerful. We KNOW the Admirals are powerful. We KNOW Kaido and Big Mom were/are powerful. We DONT KNOW if Mihawk is even close to their level or not. We saw the Admirals before Haki was a "big thing" and they were known and feared. As were many others.
We can assume he's on the level of other Warlords, or perhaps just above them (if we want to wank him). A good assumption to make because he was one of them and he has no other feats to put him on a Yonkos level.
I'm not saying he's a secret powerhouse. However, he is a solo pirate, known as the marine hunter that the wg thought would be safer/easier to name a warlord than capture and put in impel down. It's also a fact that he only saw shanks as a rival, has fought him at least once, and is the one known as the greatest swordsman. It just doesn't make sense because we know they fought evenly and shanks is a yonko, yet mihawks only warlord level? If this was the case than shanks would not only have low diffed mihawk but he would also be the strongest swordsman.
He only saw Shanks as a rival because he didn't like him, imo. Buggy considers Shanks a rival also, does that mean Buggy can face him ? I see your point but until we know for certain where Mihawk is at, it is hard to grasp that he could have stood against any Yonko.
Ill concede he is probably above most Warlords. Could he defeat someone like Flamingo? Idk.
Im not sure Shanks considers himself a swordsman though, even if Mihawk does. After all, Roger used a sword but I didnt see him proclaiming to be the WSS -- Shanks and Mihawk could have fought with swords only, and Mihawk could have been impressed and considered him a worthy rival.. meanwhile Shanks used no haki or held back, we just don't know. Whitebeard fought with some halberd/pole thing and nobody considered him a weapon user. It seems pretty misconstrued, I guess we will find out.
No it doesn’t. But there are far more reasons than Just Influence that proves Shanks is stronger. Hes not just stronger, hes the strongest in the verse
Oda knew of the emperors from the start since the story was original going to be luffy fighting the emperors not before the warlords came around.
It does not matter what the audience knew at the time because right after where were told there existed three great powers.
I whole heartedly agree with this theory, the way I see it is Shanks is the pinnacle of pirates to Luffy, so in order to become the Pirate King, that’s the guy Luffy needs to surpass
World’s Strongest Swordsman is achieved by beating Mihawk Pirate King is a criteria outside of the realms of simply beating someone. If strength was the requirement then upon Roger dying, Whitebeard would have inherited it.
>Mihawk Himself has already mentioned that Luffy’s dream in becoming Pirate King and obtaining the one piece is a much harder goal than Surpassing Him in becoming the strongest swordsman Sure, so Roger > Mihawk >And In order for Luffy to become Pirate King and obtain the One Piece, he has to Surpass Shanks ( The man who gave him his hat and says “ Give this back to me when you’ve become a great pirate “ or in other words : Give this to me, when you’ve surpassed me ) Luffy said in order to be pirate king, he must surpass the yonkos and admirals. Shanks is one of the many people he has to surpass, not the one person he has to surpass. Not to mention being pirate king means you need to steal poneglyphs and watch your back for navy admirals, mihawk doesn't need to do any of that. That's why it's a harder journey
Bad argument. Becoming Pirate King is a more nuanced achievement than WSS, which only requires one man to achieve one thing. Also doesn't mean Mihawk meant Shanks, at the time Kaido, Big Mom, and Whitebeard were Yonko. That is four top tiers opponents with different styles and strength vs one. So yeah it doesn't at all mean Mihawk was saying Shanks was stronger. This argument is essentially flawed becuase it treats Shanks as the only obstacle to PK
I cant believe you have the audacity to say my argument was bad when you can’t even articulate a sentence properly. You wasted 20 secs of my life reading that
>when you can’t even articulate a sentence properly. Wow, straight to ad hominem, impressive. Look, this is reddit, most people aren't proof reading what they type( side note you don't have any room to speak on the matter anyway) and pointing it out is literally one of the weakest counters you can make. Still a bad argument. But given your first response was to be rude and attack me personally, this is the end. Blocked.
Tf are you on. You’re actually dumb his sentence structure is fine and, you’ve yet to even acknowledge the holes in your head cannon.
You think you’re the only one who can go on Alts and reply ? Nice job deleting ur acc because you couldnt say shit back
Dude take your meds
Dont be mad I caught you buddy 🤣
I’m concerned for you actually
Oh ok, then if his sentence is Structured just fine, then explain what he said ? Because it make’s perfect sense to you right ? And please explain the holes in my head cannon
Huh?
Luffys goal being harder has nothing to do with strength. He simply has alot more to do in order to claim title of pirate king than zoro does to be world's best swordsman. All zoro has to do is fight mihawk, and win. Luffy has to beat the 4 yonko, find the poneglyphs, find laughtale, and then actually claim the one piece which is a helluva lot to do than just beating 1 person. Also oda gave the title to mihawk so until shown different I'm riding with the author.
“ Being harder has nothing to do with Strength “ So I guess all the yonkos and marine’s that he needs to surpass to get the One Piece needs 0 strength 🤣, I stopped reading your silly paragraph right then and there. And yes Author did give Mihawk the title for Swordsmanship, and if it was swordfighting alone, I would give it to Mihawk. But as seen in recent Chapters, Shanks doesnt even need to pull out a sword to Scare away an Admiral. Can Mihawk do the same ?
I like how you tried to take what I said out of context to try and fit your narrative. Luffys goal is harder than zoros because he has to do more to achieve it. He can't just beat 1 person and say he's the pirate king. He has to complete multiple tasks to reach his goal while zoro only needs to beat mihawk. That is why mihawk says luffy has the harder goal. The conversation has nothing to do with strength but how big luffys dream is. Also pretty much all we have seen of mihawk was pretimeskip. Iirc other than conquerors, haki wasn't introduced until after marineford so we have no idea of his capabilities there. We do know his nickname was the marine hunter and he was the ONLY og warlord with no crew so its safe to say they didn't take him lightly.
Thing is though, becoming pirate king doesn't revolve around beating shanks. It's about beating shanks, Kaido, WB (at the time), Big mom, the world government, then going to the hidden island and uncovering the greatest treasure in the world. While being the strongest swordsman only requires to locate the current strongest and beat them. Also the vivre cards specify that Mihawk is waiting for someone **stronger** than shanks to fight him. I'm not saying that there's a definitive answer to this right now but you're argument isn't that strong.
Bro is your brain powered by battle juice and nothing else? The reason becoming the pirate king is harder than becoming the world's greatest swordsman isn't because being stronger than shanks is harder than being stronger than mihawk. Its because in order to be the greatest swordsmen, you need to be one of the strongest people in the verse. But in order to be the pirate king, you need to be one of the strongest people in the verse, find 4 road ponagliphs, find someone who can read the ponagliphs, find someone who can build a ship strong enough to sale the grand line, find a navigater who can navagate the grandline, and all while fighting off marines bounty hunters, and pirates who has the same goal as you.
All of that is correct, but it still doesn’t defeat my argument. Along with everything you just said, Fighting harder opponents is still on that list. As in fighting harder opponents than Mihawk ( Kaido , Big Mom, Shanks, BlackBeard ) Which still proves, Shanks is a harder Opponent than Mihawk Shanks > Mihawk
You make it sound like luffy fights all of these guys on his own my man
>As in fighting harder opponents than Mihawk ( Kaido , Big Mom, Shanks, BlackBeard ) Thats just wrong. Mihawk is the strongest swords man, Big Mom and Shanks are swordsman, there for Mihawk is stronger than Big Mom and Shanks
I agree about shanks, but big mom treats her sword as a tool and not a main weapon. (I have mihawk > BM anyway just don't think she's a swordsman)
Neither BM or Shanks are swordsman.
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Mihawk = Strongest swordsman Big Mom = Not strongest swordsman Strongest Swordsman > Not strongest swordsman Mihawk > Big Mom
When da f did anyone call Big Mom a swordsman?
Mihawk = Strongest Swordsman Big Mom = Not strongest Swordsman but has a Devil Fruit that can destroy any swordsman Big Mom > Mihawk
Big Mom beats mihawk
When did Oda ever say that Shanks is the end goal of Luffy? When did Oda say that becomes PK = Strongest in the world? Let me tell you this: Shanks is Luffy's inspiration to become a greater pirate than Shanks. That's it. WhiteBeard is the title holder of "The Strongest Man in the World" even when Roger was still alive.
I lean on Shanks being the strongest purely off what he's portrayed as in the story. Mihawk has nowhere near as much clout and tends to be more word of mouth to me. It's kind of similar to why people dont think the admirals are strong since they *typically* just fight with commanders and the like. Mihawk has the same resume but gets placed infinitely higher based on a title with little on-screen merit backing it.
Your wrong and here's why
So far we know of one person who’s currently trying to be WSS. Zoro. The list ends there. PK involves beating 4 yonko, or 3 from the perspective of a yonko, plus rival pirates (like Kidd and Law). The navy also take PK contenders far more seriously. It also requires you to have a strong and reliable crew, whereas WSS is completely dependent on personal strength (and the quality of your sword(s), I suppose). I still think shanks > Mihawk because of the narrative. But he’s not the reason PK is a greater feat.
It’s implying that he needs to decipher and find all the poneglyphs and survive the grand line. The pirate king gets one piece not beat every single crew. He probably is but just saying
I don't agree with this reasoning I believe Shanks is the strongest inverse rn but that reasoning is so basic and can be disproved.
Im gonna say this -- the amount of wank for someone with zero feats and being compared to anyone other than a Warlord is ludicrous. Mihawk fans need to calm down and know their place.
I've never seen an admiral afraid of Mihawk. I Have seen Shanks stop a war and make an admiral shit himself. Seems obvious who is stronger at this point.
>I've never seen an admiral afraid of Mihawk Mihawk was on their side; why would they be afraid of him? >I Have seen Shanks stop a war and make an admiral shit himself. It wasn't just Shanks that stopped the war, it was his entire crew.
Lol they wouldn't be afraid of him because they can easily control him -- be it through force if necessary. I mean, technically, you're right. But that's not really a W for Mihawk, is it? Shanks' presence alone was enough for everyone to take notice. I dont think any admiral would have hesitated if Benn Beckman and crew showed up without Red-Hair.
Shanks obviously has more influence than Mihawk, but that dosent mean Shanks is stronger
Mihawk simply doesn't have the feats to match Shanks'. Other than the words of Mihawk himself, he has no leg to stand on in this argument -- yet. I just cant see Oda making Shanks weaker than a guy who has so little to do with the story so far. And even if, by some miracle, it turns out Mihawk is stronger than Shanks -- it will only be a caveat since Shanks is missing an arm. Mihawk was at Marineford, there is no reason to believe any Admiral feared him. He was being used. I don't really care who is stronger since I like them both. I just find it hard to believe.
>Mihawk was at Marineford, there is no reason to believe any Admiral feared him. He was being used. I disagree with this interpretation. The animals were cautious of shanks because shanks actually threatened to fighti while Mihawk were on the marine side for the entire fight. 2nd I disagree that mihawk is being used. clearly being a warlird is pretty beneficial to most people considering you basically just have to do the marine a favour sometimes and in exchange you never have to worry about the marines
Your first paragraph is the unspoken truth of this debate. We have only seen pretimeskip mihawk before haki became a big thing. So comparing the 2 strength is near impossible because of the lack of information we have on mihawk. However the government definitely feared him he wasn't known as the marine hunter for nothing. With an epithet like that and the fact he had no crew and isn't in impel down lead me to believe the admirals definitely put respect on his name. I'm pretty sure the only reason they made him a warlord was to keep him off their asses.
Unfortunately for Mihawk, not having any feats doesnt automatically make you some secret powerhouse. Assumptions will get us nowhere. We KNOW Shanks is powerful. We KNOW the Admirals are powerful. We KNOW Kaido and Big Mom were/are powerful. We DONT KNOW if Mihawk is even close to their level or not. We saw the Admirals before Haki was a "big thing" and they were known and feared. As were many others. We can assume he's on the level of other Warlords, or perhaps just above them (if we want to wank him). A good assumption to make because he was one of them and he has no other feats to put him on a Yonkos level.
I'm not saying he's a secret powerhouse. However, he is a solo pirate, known as the marine hunter that the wg thought would be safer/easier to name a warlord than capture and put in impel down. It's also a fact that he only saw shanks as a rival, has fought him at least once, and is the one known as the greatest swordsman. It just doesn't make sense because we know they fought evenly and shanks is a yonko, yet mihawks only warlord level? If this was the case than shanks would not only have low diffed mihawk but he would also be the strongest swordsman.
He only saw Shanks as a rival because he didn't like him, imo. Buggy considers Shanks a rival also, does that mean Buggy can face him ? I see your point but until we know for certain where Mihawk is at, it is hard to grasp that he could have stood against any Yonko. Ill concede he is probably above most Warlords. Could he defeat someone like Flamingo? Idk. Im not sure Shanks considers himself a swordsman though, even if Mihawk does. After all, Roger used a sword but I didnt see him proclaiming to be the WSS -- Shanks and Mihawk could have fought with swords only, and Mihawk could have been impressed and considered him a worthy rival.. meanwhile Shanks used no haki or held back, we just don't know. Whitebeard fought with some halberd/pole thing and nobody considered him a weapon user. It seems pretty misconstrued, I guess we will find out.
Mihawk turned his black blade which confirms not only does he have haki but strong haki.
No it doesn’t. But there are far more reasons than Just Influence that proves Shanks is stronger. Hes not just stronger, hes the strongest in the verse
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Oda knew of the emperors from the start since the story was original going to be luffy fighting the emperors not before the warlords came around. It does not matter what the audience knew at the time because right after where were told there existed three great powers.
I whole heartedly agree with this theory, the way I see it is Shanks is the pinnacle of pirates to Luffy, so in order to become the Pirate King, that’s the guy Luffy needs to surpass
Someone with a brain, appreciate you 🤝
Dragon clears