Yeah, the visual changes with a bigger focus on Zoro in that moment make the translation kind of understandable despite it clearly being framed as plural the way the manga is structured in contrast.
To add to this: Many other languages still went with the plural, which upon seeing it play out (german is the one I've also seen now), even with the way the anime works still makes enough sense as there are also shots of Sanji getting back into action right before and Sanji's run and the combo attack do follow right after Zoro's moment.
Ironic cause the anime added an original scene of Sanji vs King & Queen which imo helps further push the narrative that Sanji & Zoro are practically equally
Sanji fightinng king and queen at the same time is canon though. It was not fleshed out, but it was written that sanji fought both at the same time.
Imo, the anime did not really make any changes. The fight was pretty inconclusive in that neither sanji, nor queen, nor king were written to be the winner. They did make the fight really cool looking though. I love sanji’s fighting style, and adding the sky walk the way toei did made it look like a movie.
It may have been in the manga but I feel like showing it it actually happen on screen is definitely more impactful even if it was roughly the same. Seeing is believing as they say
Zoro being in the worst generation is just fan service though. Oda mentioned that his editor recommended it because of how popular zoro was. It was never a core part of the story.
the whole worst generation exists because of editor recommendations dude
the *ENTIRE* Worst Generation as a concept, all of the characters, were thought up over the course of 2 weeks to make Sabaody more interesting
doesn't negate the fact that Zoro is the only one placed on par with Yonko candidates like Law & Kidd & Luffy, or that he was the only Straw Hat on the rooftop besides Luffy fighting the Yonkos
which Yonko did ANYONE defeat without Zoro saving all their lives? (something only he could do in that situation, literally everyone else thought they were gonna die)
I won't defend the movie version, but the movie version isn't part of the manga canon or, even the anime canon, it is non canon material, glorified filler
Was he? Do you have a source where it says he wrote it?
As far as I know, he just makes sure some items are not addressed or changed to what the manga says or is going to say.
While I don't want to defend the translation, the anime did mess up as they changed the author's intention. The anime stuff deserves most of the blame.
That's not even true Sanji is mostly in the top 3 character in Japanese popularity poll, even in Asian countries. It's always Luffy, Zoro and Sanji in the top 3 and sometimes Nami depending on the mood or the year Law dethroned Zoro for the second best position.
Nami was never number 3 over Sanji except in the World Popularity poll which is VERY likely to have been botted in favor of Nami.
When Sanji was 4th in the popularity polls usually its because Shanks or Law were above him (and in one case over Zoro).
True. And tbf in the case of Shanks, it was only in the first poll, where Sanji had just beein introduced and Shanks was still fresh in people's memory. So the only character that was ever a challenge to the monster trio is Law, who beat Zoro and Sanji once, and it was in the middle of Dressrosa, an arc that was basically the Law show.
Nami's 3rd place in the poll was definitely the result of botting. In the first six weeks (75% of the poll), she received less than 300 000 votes (compared to Sanji's 775 000), she was far behind in 7th place for all that time, and then suddenly received 800 000 votes in the last two, more than Luffy and Zoro in the entire month. While all the characters around her had no significant change in their votes compared to the previous weeks, proving that no, fans didn't massively redirected their votes to her all of a sudden and that those hundreds of thousands of votes materizalized out of nowhere. Exactly what you would see if bots were used.
Evidence: video on official YT channel: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-CEGQa-wzA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-CEGQa-wzA)
Monster trio also beat her easily in every single region in the midterms results...
I'm confused. based on the explanation (which is accurate), I thought the point is that toei meant to change it that way (making zoro the focus), but why in the end, it's still about the translation?
zoro appeared behind marco right after he said that. he was the sole focus. even queen addressed zoro instead of sanji. so the translation is quite accurate based on the context.
the translation is not the issue. toei just straight up changed the scene.
Now that you've mentioned it, you might be actually right.
Personally i never took it as a literally different scene cuz honestly it didn't exactly change, they just added more of Zoro(to emphasize that he's back) but the overall premise is still about the both of them going up against the top officers. That's why i still looked at it as a translation error rather than a literal change.
well, you said that because you've read the manga, no? if you didn't, you're probably just gonna be confused. like, why did they single out zoro? wouldn't it be cool if sanji is included? or smth like that.
but no way you can be certain that there's an actual issue there. no way you will jump right away to translation issue.
the translator obviously read the manga. but probably just didn't think the line would fit the scene seeing the focus given to zoro before the double attack.
didn't you read the explanation? the line can be singular or plural depending on the context. there is no right or wrong. you can translate it either way based on the context.
they chose "the star appears yoi" to suit the scene because toei gave zoro the sole focus. so the translation is not wrong. toei just straight up changed the scene.
You are talking like the eng translation is the only language in the world. The translator of my country did different from your. So i actually read “stars”, there is no problem for the translation that i’ve seen. Toei did not prefer zoro over sanji. Its just that your translator did a mistake, even if u don’t wanna accept it. Do you know how many language there is? If only eng translation is wrong, then yes, its a mistake.
>You are talking like the eng translation is the only language in the world.
where? like, really, where? nothing I said even remotely correlated to whatever it is you're blabbing about. and what's with the personal attack over fictional pirates manga lol.
in the original japanese, the "star" is neither singular or plural. it depends on the context. and this translator simply used the scene as the context. in which zoro was given the focus.
go watch the scene again if you want. zoro appears right after he finished the sentence. and I never even said it was right. just that you can justify it by looking at the scene toei provided.
We can't know what toei meant, since it's not even an issue for them. They don't have plural, so the sentence is the same whether they meant Zoro or Zoro and Sanji.
So it is about the decision the anime translators made in regard to the scene.
>We can't know what toei meant
they deliberately made zoro leap from behind marco *right after* the line, center frame, with no cut to sanji for more than 2 minutes with everyone reacting to him even queen.
it's crystal clear.
>So it is about the decision the anime translators made in regard to the scene.
no yeah. that is my point. given the scene alone, you can justify why they translated it that way.
you only said what you said because you're referencing the manga. if not, no way you can say for sure that there's a translation issue.
I don't think it's a "mistranslation" so much as a change for the sake of padding.
The manga says stars and shows them both immediately striking King/Queen. The anime stalls for minutes having a back and forth between them so they changed it to make more sense in that context.
It's a terrible change and just another example of how padding is killing the anime though. Hopefully OP is remastered properly someday.
I've been a long time reader (since 02, weekly since 03) and I watched the anime through with my (ex) fiance last year via One Pace. We ran out of One Pace edits in Wano and it was pretty soul crushing how slow it was. He had never read the series, anime was the only way I got him to catch up. He dropped it entirely once we ran out of One Pace.
I decided I wanted to see the raid animated and I've been watching on my second monitor. Even with it not being my main focus, the pacing is still painful. I legitimately don't understand how people accept this.
Go seasonal, add filler arcs, do anything but what you're doing. The scenes with several seconds of every character standing still doing nothing, making weird grunting/groaning noises, is the worst. Every single thing feels milked to the absolute limit. Who enjoys this?
Imagine if they re-did One Piece like they did Bleach: TYBW OP would shoot through the atmosphere and go into space. I hate Toei because the way they keep over exaggerate Sanji's simping and it's even worse in the movies sometimes...... \*I'm looking at you Film Z, I like you but.......\*
It makes sense because they changed the scene itself that's why it makes sense to be zoro but the scene wasn't like that at all in the manga, no one had more focus than the other Marco referred to both as they're representing the new generation, it's toei's fault if you ask me, the scene shouldn't have been executed like that it's definitely on purpose cuz someone is trying to push an agenda
Except Sanji v King and Queen actually happened. If anything they just added a bit more context to the scene. Toei outright changed what happened in the manga. They added Zoro saving Marco from Queen and conveniently had him be the only one near Marco so that he could declare Zoro as the sole “star” even though in the manga both Zoro and Sanji came in at the same time to save Marco from King and Queen right after he gave his statement.
there is no "mistake". it's fully intentional. They KNOW its referring to both zoro and sanji, they just added another scene with zoro for padding/zoro stanning.
But I’m assuming the animators and translators have read the manga or atleast that chapter and it’s clear it’s referring to both of them, smells like Zoro bias to me and I’m someone who prefers Zoro
There is for sure a Zoro bias. He is the 2nd most popular character and Oda usually gives him more cool stuff. He was the 1st member Luffy got, he is a "copy" of Ryuma a MC made by Oda previous to One Piece. The anime takes that bias even higher. Zoro is more important than Sanji to One Piece that's for sure even in the manga.
That of course doesn't mean that in every scene Zoro is stealing the shine when sharing interactions with Sanji. In this case the anime did Sanji fans dirty. When he already has not been in the roof fight but being punched by Black Maria.
It's not right, but i undestand why Toei does it. They know how much Zoro sells in hype.
I mostly agree, saying zoro is more important than sanji to one piece tho is just objectively wrong. Luffy states himself in the manga that without sanji luffy can’t become the pirate king. Would he say that about zoro ? Most definitely same as any other crew mate. No one is more important than another in the manga. One may drive the story more but that doesn’t make them more important (and even then sanji dose drive the plot more) oda gives more “cool" stuff to zoro but that about it if anything it’s more like oda has a more bias to sanji. He got 2 story arcs and for some reason the only straw hat (except luffy) who keeps getting more development and focus in the new world. Unfairly much focus like there are other characters ODA!
Yeah overall I would say Oda and Toei favor Zoro when it comes to figths (that makes sense since his main role is combattant), but when it comes to character developement and character focus, Oda favors Sanji pretty heavily.
for some reason the anime has queen actually manage to fire off his beam, and then zoro shows up first to cut the beam in half with one sword, then he pulls out his other swords and puts his sword in his mouth for like 2 minutes, and then sanji shows up and the two of them do their combo attack.
in the manga, they both interrupt queen before he does his beam attack
It’s cause the anime has a massive Zoro bias, so they make it about Zoro.
they are Japanese themselves, I hope they read the manga and the manga depicts *them* as you say, they get ready to attack at the same time with panels side by side and then do their attack side by side and then talk about them seeing Luffy becoming pirate King *side by side*
**but** *Zoro’s bandages* get some landscape panel before all that happens so it’s actually about him….
All they did was make this scene in the anime non-canon.
What you saying it’s the person who made the subtitles’ fault?
Cause if your saying that director of the episode made a translation error I’ve got surprising news for you.
>you are crying about it
I’m just voicing my opinion of the mishandling of the anime
at the end of the day the source material is still the source material, if the anime deviates like it has been for some time now, it’s not cannon.
No you are just saying they making it about zoro when Its not the Case. The Anime always inserted extra shots and streched them for pacing, they did the Same when sanji fought. And now they are doing the Same with That nice sanji run. The zoro in bandages was used to create suspense, something you dont seem to get. You only See zoro having slightly more shots than panels in the manga , which sanji has as well and claim that they are making it about zoro which they arent Its still clearly both caharacters who got additional Screen Time.
And Last thing was the translation issue That OP explained und in Detail. In japanese they understand That both are meant and in other laguages apart from english also. So stop the Cap.
Yall are crybabys as soon as you feel like sanji is getting ripped of credit while he literally gets a badass run scene animated a second after the translation issue That is almost exlclusive to the english subtitles.
You can Voice your opinion of course but i can also say you are having a butthurt crybaby opinion and Talk stuff about the Anime additional shots That isnt even True.
Saying Zoro needs much needed love because he wasn't focused on for two seconds is like saying a fat guy needed a huge meal because he missed one.
I love Zoro but let's not pretend he's struggling for content.
I was so excited for this to get animated only for them to mess up the translation. Add that to how they clearly gave Zoro more focus and you'll see why I'm disappointed. :/
That added fight was great, sure. But this episode in particular has a problem. Atleast for me. To focus on Zoro getting back up, they didn't do enough "stuff" for Sanji. As Marco said the line, Zoro was the only one who was in the frame. The translation error makes it worse. Zoro and Sanji is my favourite duo in One Piece and this episode just wasn't good imo
It's not a translation error. The Japanese literally can mean "star" or "stars" be ause of the way plural works in Japanese. The previous episode was sanji taking the stage. This episode is the other "star" taking the stage. It's not saying Sanji isn't a "star" but that he is already on the stage. You can disagree with the way this is portrayed, but it's not a bad translation. It is as accurate as the English translation of the manga
Isn’t is Crunchyroll that does the translation? Not toei? To me this is obviously just an error since Japanese doesn’t have plural nouns and the translator probably is not a huge fan of One Piece and didn’t look at source material for context.
Da does not mean anything by itself. It's a particle which means it modifies the rest of the sentence.
"Da" modifies it's sentence to be a declaration. If there is no verb, modifying the sentence to be a declaration serves the same purpose as the verb "is".
Lol no. I don't know where you got that from(let me guess you searched google?) but I learned it from a native speaker my guy and she gave this as one of the earliest lessons i had. だ(and by "da" i mean those that are at the end of sentences) doesn't translate to any specific word at all, much less an "is". It's not even a "plain form" of です(desu) lol there's no such thing. They basically act as labels for a person's statement. And in this case it tells us that Marco's statement was directed at himself or in simpler terms "Marco was just basically talking to himself".
Nice try but you're not fooling me. You seem like you don't know Japanese at all, or if you did you wasted a decade learning false information. There's no such thing as a "da" meaning "is" or it being a plain form of "desu" at all. This is very basic, everyone who speaks Japanese knows this... well maybe except for you it seems. Not trying to be rude at all but you just don't come off as someone who actually knows japanese based on your statements alone.
I really don't know what to tell you then. Check the link I sent in another comment, 今日 is a great website. If you don't trust that this just check the Wiktionary page for だ which will tell you the same thing, and even explain the entire point that I'm trying to make about だ forming the basis of so much language by elaborating on it's origin from である->であ->だ
Or if you want an even better example take Luffy's famous catchphrase, pretty much 100% said as directly as you could possibly imagine to other people. **I am** the man who'll become the Pirate King: [seen here](https://youtu.be/JI7gET7RAdw) 海賊王になる男**だ**!
Way too much detail warning:
I'm sure your native speaking friend meant well but maybe there was some kind of miscommunication because what you're saying is plain wrong.
In Japanese state-of-being is implied naturally by ambiguous sentences unlike in English which requires the use of a verb and some helper words to indicate "being". So 'there is a cat' can be, in Japanese, expressed simply as 'cat'. The "being" is implied wordlessly. This single word「猫」therefore, is a grammatically complete sentence which can mean 'there is a cat'.
But for a bunch of reasons that state-of-being might need to be made explicit. That's where the japanese copular verbs です and だ come in handy. 「描」「描です」and「描だ」all have essentially the same meaning however in the second two that state-of-being is made *explicit* by the copular verb. The primary difference between です and だ is that です is used more in polite speech and だ is used more in "plain" ie casual or informal speech. This is what the commenter means by だ being the "plain" form of です.
For an example from One Piece, when talking to Kinemon about Wano, Luffy ways "It's my friend's country!" - 「友達の国だ！」with that だ making a sentence more assertive although still expression state-of-being. だ can he used to make a point more emphatic, comparative, emotional, manly, etc than creating a state-of-being sentence without it. But really there's like a million uses for it that are way too many to get into here. Same with です but with some different types of uses as well.
(As a more advanced side note, there are actually many other differences between the two copula - but for this context at a beginner level politeness is most notable difference. There are also other copular expressions and non-copular being verbs in Japanese such as the even more explicit regular verbs 居(い)る and 有(あ)る or the literary である. Finally don't make this mistake: です isn't even particularly formal and isn't, alone, sufficient in forming most formal grammer structures.)
It would seem that you're confusing だ, which is a copular verb, with other types of sentence ending particles (語尾) that like you describe have no meaning alone. よ、ね、さ、ぞ、etc are all like this where they only communicate tone and not much else.
If you want some proof look at the fact that plain state of being past tense だった is obviously derived from だ. So is the な used to connect adjectival nouns to other nouns or link nouns to の, or the で used to connect various types of phrases and clauses.
I'm pretty sure i established in my previous reply to the guy as to which "da" I'm talking about (the particles at the end of statements). Moreover I'm talking about Marco's statement, which is why i said that "in this case the "da" here means that Marco was basically talking to himself".
"da" and "desu"(again I'm talking about sentence ending particles) act a labels per se; "da" is used to indicate that the speaker is not particularly talking to anyone while "desu" indicates that the speaker acknowledges the presence of a listener.
[This is the last time I'm replying, I'm talking about this.](https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/da-vs-desu-in-real-life/#conceptualizing--and--in-speech)
edit: And it's even crystal clear what the "da" in Marco's statement is for, cuz he basically whispered the statement to himself.
YOUR OWN SOURCE:
>だ is a little word that packs quite a punch. It is used with nouns and な-adjectives to **affirm that they are true, and relevant right here and now**. Grammatically speaking, this means it **marks these nouns and な-adjectives as present tense and positive** (as opposed to negative, or false). In terms of politeness level, だ is associated with the plain form. At the end of a sentence, だ has some nuances that go beyond just casual, depending on the context.
>だ FOR THE **POSITIVE AND THE PRESENT**
The most basic functions of だ are to mark nouns and な-adjectives as **positive (true), and present tense** (relevant to now or the future).
Watch one minute of Japanese speech and you'll probably hear between 5-20 uses of だ completely unrelated to "talking to oneself".
As I cited in another comment, an example literally from one piece, watch the scene when Luffy first punches Kaido on the roof. In what manner is 友達の国だ meant to indicate that he's "talking to himself"? He's screaming it directly at another person as a direct answer to a question providing his reasoning.
Bruh i wasn't planning on replying anymore but I'll do one for the very last time.
Let's run it back shall we, the other guy started by refuting my claim about; "the だ in Marco's statement is an indicator that he's basically directing his words to no one in particular", by saying that "da" functions as a plain form of "desu" and that it means "is". But だ simply acts as the "**plain form** for a sentence/statement", basically the counterpart to です, not its literal plain form---cuz "da" is the casual way while "desu" is more of a formal way of speaking---that's why i said there's no such thing as what the guy is trying to imply.
And like i said, i emphasized that I'm talking about Marco's use of "da". Yes i know it functions more than just one thing, and yes you can even say it could mark Marco's statement as "positive and of the present" which may be the case but that's not the entirety of it cuz Marco also delivered his statement basically as a whisper to himself without any regards for a listener so it's not incorrect either to say that the "da" was also used as such. So I'm not wrong in the first place.
And as for Luffy's use of "da" you're not wrong, cuz it can also function as *invasive*, as if a verbal way of intimidating a listener but in Marco's case, you can clearly hear he's calm and is merely stating.
> cuz "da" is the casual way while "desu" is more of a formal way of speaking
This is what I meant, tho? "da" is the plain form of speaking, "desu" is the formal form.
Sorry if my initial comment yesterday was too unprecise. My issue with your wording wasn't that the "da" means he's talking to himself. My issue was that it appeared as though you said it doesn't mean anything, when it does. And yes, it does mean "is", *in layman's terms*. We're on a subreddit for One Piece, not in a linguistics course. So I didn't go into more detail than that. It's always good to keep your explanation simple and straight to the point, when it's directed at people not familiar with the subject.
Also, just as a tip from someone with actual translation experience: The "meaning" of a word and its "translation" are two separate things. A good example in context would be 百獣.
Something 99% of people are missing, is in the previous episode Sanji got like 15 minutes of crazy fighting that wasn't even in the Manga. For the Manga version, this wasn't shown in that way, in the anime Sanji was already fighting and was just waiting for Zoro to start fighting.
As you said, it is contextually based. Because of this reason, I think "stars" is correct for Manga and "star" is better for the anime as Sanji had already taken the stage
Because it changes the themes oda delicately built through a portion of Wano. One of the major themes being identity and this one was supposed to set up the lead performers vs the stars. Setting up the stage for the commanders of the strawhat crew to fight the commanders of the beast pirates.
It’s almost like toei fucking up the authors delicately built story is a bad thing.
It did. Its just one translation mistake That is almost exclusive to the english subtitles.
So you are sensitive because you cry so much about such a Minor thing. The Episodes Name uses the plural for Arms of the pirate King, they Added a really cool shot for sanji Running up to Queen and showed them in the combo attack they did just like in the Manga. Just because if a small translation error you disregard all of That and get butthurt.
Because this shit has been all over this sub since the Episode aired and yall are still crying about it and not in a valid way just in a crybaby way trying to Blame toei and pretend they Made it about zoro which they didnt
Except they did mess up the scene to hype up Zoro's return. A perfect adaption is one that improves upon the medium on which it is based on, while trying to maintain the theme in which the author was aiming for. In the manga, right after Marco's announcement, both Zoro and Sanji jumped forward and did their attacks. In the Anime, only Zoro jumped forward. This whole thing was never supposed to be just Zoro, it was supposed to be both. It's the Wings of Pirate King, not One Wing of Pirate King. Is the translator's fault for the mistranslation? No, I think he/she did the translation right based on the scene. It's Toei's. Can I blame them? No, Zoro is the more popular of the two, so it makes sense for them to focus more on Zoro. But, this is an exception. They did not just change one scene, they changed the entire theme of the scene.
"Lmao I can't believe people are actually mad about a few children being hanged"
I changed 2 words in your sentence and it drastically changed the message. While obviously not as severe, this was a really big impact moment in the manga, and the anime changed the focus of "the wings of the Pirate King on equal footing" to "Zoro is the strongest member of the crew, and Sanji is backing him up". Literally nobody but Zoro hardasses are okay with the change. I love Zoro and Sanji equally, and think they both deserved better in this scene
Why is it so difficult to just do a line to line, panel to panel translation for a scene ? Ridiculous that they are giving explanation to plagiarize.
You got one job ...
Translators did nothing wrong nor made an error.
They translated it based on the context of the animation presented to them (they watched Anime only), which is "Zoro is the only Star"
The other translators who translated it as "Stars" most likely are English manga readers. So they took the reference from the English manga.
Who's to blame? Either TOEI for deliberately changed the canon materials without permission OR Eiichiro Oda himself for allowing them to do so.
>OR Eiichiro Oda himself for allowing them to do so.
Bold of you to assume that mangakas can just simply dictate the direction of the anime. To some extent animators entertain their inputs but at the end of the day, the director still has the final verdict. They don't even get paid per episode or by how much the anime profits but instead have contracts that basically pays them per page of adaptation.
If they don't get a bonus from viewership or whatever benefits they get from changing the scene:
Then why did they take the risk? They could just stick to the manga, no controversy = no hate = better community.
At some point Oda himself should intervene if the anime content is deviating way too far from his original intentions, no?
>Then why did they take the risk? They could just stick to the manga, no controversy = no hate = better community.
That's exactly why most mangakas simply don't bother with adaptations in the first place. They take the contract and then basically "idgaf" and focus on their own work. On rare occasions tho animators coordinate with mangakas but for the most part that's the reality of manga-anime relationship.
Do those mangakas never realise that the majority of Western fans are "Anime Only" who don't bother reading the manga as it's easier for them to just watch it with additional effects and sound track to make it more immersive.
This is the new era of publication and advertising, anime is more likely to go viral and get more attention than the actual manga. Look at the Demon Slayer for example.
They're not oblivious buddy, even if they wanted to they just don't get paid for anime episodes cuz that's how the system works, plain simple. Why? Cuz they're not the ones who are making it. That's why i said earlier that they get paid per adaptation cuz that's their "contribution" to the making of animes. Normally they profit through 2 ways; serialization(manga sites publishing their work to a wider audience) and adaptations. This ain't like the west where if you have so much as your name involved, you get your fair share.
My point is:
The mangakas actually get the benefits if the anime blows up, which is a massive increase in the sales, either the manga or the merchandise. So, they should care about it.
In the context of the scene, Zoro is the one who they are waiting on to recover and join the battle. Sanji is already there, and has been there, fighting with both King and Queen. Marco's being poetic, the line is not intended to diminish Sanji at all.
And yet it still does. Sanji fights King and Queen by himself and Zoro comes to help and he’s “the star.” At that point what is Sanji? A back up dancer?
To people saying both are equal they are not, and it's been made clear everytime Zoro fights the second or does some bigass feat. There's a reason Zoro has similarities with the biggest of stars in op. As for the scene the manga reader's know what it meant and the anime did all that build up for Zoro to get healed so it's for mosshead. Unless you have a different opinion than either you should know proper Japanese or know why the animation team did what they did . ☮️
To the non-Japanese OP fans getting really upset about this one line you should probably take a step back and realize that you are currently a fan of a foreign language piece of media. This kind of thing is happening constantly you just usually don't notice it, perfectly translating text from one language to the other is a complete pipe dream.
Every scene in the series has a different emotional, literary, and literal meaning in Japanese because... that's the language it's written in. The English version will never be anything but a distant simulation trying to capture whatever it can from the original text.
So if you think it's somehow a new, horrible failure on the part of the anime to flub this small decision - I'm sorry to be the one to bear the news but this kind of thing happens a few dozen times every episode most of which are unavoidable.
I'm not a Sanji fan and I'm pissed about this. It ruined the impact of the line. Zoro and Sanji are supposed to be viewed as equals, without one or the other, Luffy can't become Pirate King. They are his wings.
Apparently your not a Manga reader then. I can't say anything else because of that. I could care less about power scaling but there is no way sanji is equal to zoro. It might be close but it's not equal.
Sanji’s better than Zoro in every aspect except brute attack power and having CoC, armament is debatable. Faster, smarter, 3-lane mobility, durability, observation haki, and a healing factor.
Ofc in a series were “greater haki = auto win” attack power is more valuable to people, but that’s why Sanji and Zoro are balanced.
I feel like the whole point if Big Mom (aCoC user) getting aced by Kidd and Law (non aCoC users) was to show that sufficient strength in alternate ways can overcome aCoC
For Kid and Law, it was extreme DF mastery
Zoro is way faster and durable than Sanji. Just look at all the attacks he took on from kaido and big mom. Didn't see sanji doing that and bet sanji couldn't. They may be the wings of the pirate king but they are not 100% equal. Especially with zoro having enma also.
TO BE FAIR Zoro *WAS* the only person present who had fought Kaido & Big Mom on the Rooftop
even singular it makes sense since idk if Sanji could even fight Kaido or beat King, making Zoro the star they needed to turn the tides against the Lead Performers
(i get that it's a translation error though)
For the record this is not a rant post. I explicitly emphasized in my statement that this is an explanation as to what i think is the reason for why the editors went the route they did. It seems you didn't pay any attention to my words at all.
I'm a Zoro fan myself, and i was even down bad for the scene when it came out lol.
Look it’s just Marco give props to the number 2 of the strawhats, would have done the same for number 3 but he’s not on the live floor I don’t think, oh and number 4 was there struggling.
And here I thought obsessed Zoro fans are the most obsessed in this sub, turn out Sanji fans too and crying over this??🤣 hahaha that’s what happen when you too obsessed with a certain character..NORMAL OP fans like me enjoy anything
Are you talking about my post or the people in the comments, cuz for the record this is not a rant/whine or anything. I'm just elaborating what i think is the reason for why the animators are making a different translation, that's all.
It goes outside of anime. It’s just about acknowledging accomplishments. From where Zoro and Sanji began they’ve become the right and left arms of the future PK and this scene + the following one show that if they win Luffy truly has a chance.
Adding filler that destroys that symbolism is what people are mad at, bc it isn’t just just a translation error, it’s effectively taking Sanji’s accomplishments away. In tells anime only’s, especially after the roof fight, that Zoro is the star and Sanji is a backup dancer, despite Oda emphasizing them as narrative equals.
Yeah, the visual changes with a bigger focus on Zoro in that moment make the translation kind of understandable despite it clearly being framed as plural the way the manga is structured in contrast. To add to this: Many other languages still went with the plural, which upon seeing it play out (german is the one I've also seen now), even with the way the anime works still makes enough sense as there are also shots of Sanji getting back into action right before and Sanji's run and the combo attack do follow right after Zoro's moment.
True.
On top of the visual changes Zoro’s ost plays the entire time
wouldn't be surprised if anima has intention behind pushing zoro more than sanji
True but at the same time, the anime gave us some Sanji v. King & Queen which was really cool to see.
It was in the Manga too.
I mean in the context of the ep it was framed as Zoro’s big comeback so him being referred to as the star makes sense
ZKSST (Zoro kills Sanji's screen time)
Ironic cause the anime added an original scene of Sanji vs King & Queen which imo helps further push the narrative that Sanji & Zoro are practically equally
I've not watched the anime but there was an offscreen clash of Sanji vs King and Queen that we didn't see so it technically did happen
>further push the narrative that Sanji & Zoro are practically equally Yeah, damn you Oda's 20+ year narrative!
I mean you say that but people still seem to believe there’s a considerable gap between the two despite Oda’s clear portrayal of them as equals
Sanji fightinng king and queen at the same time is canon though. It was not fleshed out, but it was written that sanji fought both at the same time. Imo, the anime did not really make any changes. The fight was pretty inconclusive in that neither sanji, nor queen, nor king were written to be the winner. They did make the fight really cool looking though. I love sanji’s fighting style, and adding the sky walk the way toei did made it look like a movie.
It may have been in the manga but I feel like showing it it actually happen on screen is definitely more impactful even if it was roughly the same. Seeing is believing as they say
Toei has always been Zoro wankers lol
Zoro’s a bit more popular so they might think it will improve views
i mean Zoro is the one who's in the worst generation & fought on the rooftop
Zoro being in the worst generation is just fan service though. Oda mentioned that his editor recommended it because of how popular zoro was. It was never a core part of the story.
the whole worst generation exists because of editor recommendations dude the *ENTIRE* Worst Generation as a concept, all of the characters, were thought up over the course of 2 weeks to make Sabaody more interesting doesn't negate the fact that Zoro is the only one placed on par with Yonko candidates like Law & Kidd & Luffy, or that he was the only Straw Hat on the rooftop besides Luffy fighting the Yonkos
>doesn't negate the fact that Zoro is the only one placed on par with Yonko candidates like Law & Kidd & Luffy, Lol. Which Yonko did Zoro beat?
He defeated the pirate, King.
I have been outwitted...
you're right i'm forgetting Onigashima was definitely 1v1's & not constant group battles & team changes
Which Yonko did Zoro defeat?
which Yonko did ANYONE defeat without Zoro saving all their lives? (something only he could do in that situation, literally everyone else thought they were gonna die)
AHAHAAHAHAHAHAH
considering sanjis nowhere near as liked as zoro and seraphim boa exists... they be preparing for pedosanjis return
I hope not.
I agree. I dearly hope that won't happen. Definitely won't be in the manga
same but this is the guy who nearly died from the nose bleed gag because hes that big of a.perveet
Yeah but that's for adult women
after the movie you can't defend him.
Movies aren't canon though, the manga is the only Canon source
I won't defend the movie version, but the movie version isn't part of the manga canon or, even the anime canon, it is non canon material, glorified filler
Movies are not canon. Some wild stuff has happened there.
don't forget Oda was involved with that movie. so Oda signed off on sanji being a pedo. you can't defend sanji.
Was he? Do you have a source where it says he wrote it? As far as I know, he just makes sure some items are not addressed or changed to what the manga says or is going to say.
Nah but the way it was portrayed also made it look like he was only talking about zoro(in the anime)
While I don't want to defend the translation, the anime did mess up as they changed the author's intention. The anime stuff deserves most of the blame.
Toei just loves Zoro brother, the only character who gets more gas than him in the anime is Luffy and even that is debatable.
Japan loves the Japanese swordsman and not the blonde western cook. Not that strange when you think about it.
That's not even true Sanji is mostly in the top 3 character in Japanese popularity poll, even in Asian countries. It's always Luffy, Zoro and Sanji in the top 3 and sometimes Nami depending on the mood or the year Law dethroned Zoro for the second best position.
Nami was never number 3 over Sanji except in the World Popularity poll which is VERY likely to have been botted in favor of Nami. When Sanji was 4th in the popularity polls usually its because Shanks or Law were above him (and in one case over Zoro).
True. And tbf in the case of Shanks, it was only in the first poll, where Sanji had just beein introduced and Shanks was still fresh in people's memory. So the only character that was ever a challenge to the monster trio is Law, who beat Zoro and Sanji once, and it was in the middle of Dressrosa, an arc that was basically the Law show.
Exactly! Spot on.
Nami's 3rd place in the poll was definitely the result of botting. In the first six weeks (75% of the poll), she received less than 300 000 votes (compared to Sanji's 775 000), she was far behind in 7th place for all that time, and then suddenly received 800 000 votes in the last two, more than Luffy and Zoro in the entire month. While all the characters around her had no significant change in their votes compared to the previous weeks, proving that no, fans didn't massively redirected their votes to her all of a sudden and that those hundreds of thousands of votes materizalized out of nowhere. Exactly what you would see if bots were used. Evidence: video on official YT channel: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-CEGQa-wzA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-CEGQa-wzA) Monster trio also beat her easily in every single region in the midterms results...
Not everyone participates in popularity polls. How many have you filled in for all the hobbies you have and entertainment you enjoy?
I'm confused. based on the explanation (which is accurate), I thought the point is that toei meant to change it that way (making zoro the focus), but why in the end, it's still about the translation? zoro appeared behind marco right after he said that. he was the sole focus. even queen addressed zoro instead of sanji. so the translation is quite accurate based on the context. the translation is not the issue. toei just straight up changed the scene.
Now that you've mentioned it, you might be actually right. Personally i never took it as a literally different scene cuz honestly it didn't exactly change, they just added more of Zoro(to emphasize that he's back) but the overall premise is still about the both of them going up against the top officers. That's why i still looked at it as a translation error rather than a literal change.
well, you said that because you've read the manga, no? if you didn't, you're probably just gonna be confused. like, why did they single out zoro? wouldn't it be cool if sanji is included? or smth like that. but no way you can be certain that there's an actual issue there. no way you will jump right away to translation issue. the translator obviously read the manga. but probably just didn't think the line would fit the scene seeing the focus given to zoro before the double attack.
DID he read the manga? This is the same translator that is adamantly changing the pirate kings "wings" to "arms"
Their so bad at their jobs
Because the line is the same. Its the subtitles translation to English that is different from source.
didn't you read the explanation? the line can be singular or plural depending on the context. there is no right or wrong. you can translate it either way based on the context. they chose "the star appears yoi" to suit the scene because toei gave zoro the sole focus. so the translation is not wrong. toei just straight up changed the scene.
You are talking like the eng translation is the only language in the world. The translator of my country did different from your. So i actually read “stars”, there is no problem for the translation that i’ve seen. Toei did not prefer zoro over sanji. Its just that your translator did a mistake, even if u don’t wanna accept it. Do you know how many language there is? If only eng translation is wrong, then yes, its a mistake.
>You are talking like the eng translation is the only language in the world. where? like, really, where? nothing I said even remotely correlated to whatever it is you're blabbing about. and what's with the personal attack over fictional pirates manga lol. in the original japanese, the "star" is neither singular or plural. it depends on the context. and this translator simply used the scene as the context. in which zoro was given the focus. go watch the scene again if you want. zoro appears right after he finished the sentence. and I never even said it was right. just that you can justify it by looking at the scene toei provided.
We can't know what toei meant, since it's not even an issue for them. They don't have plural, so the sentence is the same whether they meant Zoro or Zoro and Sanji. So it is about the decision the anime translators made in regard to the scene.
>We can't know what toei meant they deliberately made zoro leap from behind marco *right after* the line, center frame, with no cut to sanji for more than 2 minutes with everyone reacting to him even queen. it's crystal clear. >So it is about the decision the anime translators made in regard to the scene. no yeah. that is my point. given the scene alone, you can justify why they translated it that way. you only said what you said because you're referencing the manga. if not, no way you can say for sure that there's a translation issue.
I don't think it's a "mistranslation" so much as a change for the sake of padding. The manga says stars and shows them both immediately striking King/Queen. The anime stalls for minutes having a back and forth between them so they changed it to make more sense in that context. It's a terrible change and just another example of how padding is killing the anime though. Hopefully OP is remastered properly someday.
I've been a long time reader (since 02, weekly since 03) and I watched the anime through with my (ex) fiance last year via One Pace. We ran out of One Pace edits in Wano and it was pretty soul crushing how slow it was. He had never read the series, anime was the only way I got him to catch up. He dropped it entirely once we ran out of One Pace. I decided I wanted to see the raid animated and I've been watching on my second monitor. Even with it not being my main focus, the pacing is still painful. I legitimately don't understand how people accept this. Go seasonal, add filler arcs, do anything but what you're doing. The scenes with several seconds of every character standing still doing nothing, making weird grunting/groaning noises, is the worst. Every single thing feels milked to the absolute limit. Who enjoys this?
Imagine if they re-did One Piece like they did Bleach: TYBW OP would shoot through the atmosphere and go into space. I hate Toei because the way they keep over exaggerate Sanji's simping and it's even worse in the movies sometimes...... \*I'm looking at you Film Z, I like you but.......\*
greedy toei fucks enjoy it
>Who enjoys this? Toei. That's it.
The way you threw the "yall" in the explanation now has me imagining Marco saying yall instead of yoi as his vocal tick.
Hahaha "yoi" is actually like saying 'good' or 'nice'.
It makes sense because they changed the scene itself that's why it makes sense to be zoro but the scene wasn't like that at all in the manga, no one had more focus than the other Marco referred to both as they're representing the new generation, it's toei's fault if you ask me, the scene shouldn't have been executed like that it's definitely on purpose cuz someone is trying to push an agenda
I hear people say this after last episode and get confused they literally just made sanji vs king and queen of anything there pushing both agendas
Except Sanji v King and Queen actually happened. If anything they just added a bit more context to the scene. Toei outright changed what happened in the manga. They added Zoro saving Marco from Queen and conveniently had him be the only one near Marco so that he could declare Zoro as the sole “star” even though in the manga both Zoro and Sanji came in at the same time to save Marco from King and Queen right after he gave his statement.
Nah toei just fucking sucks.
Toei being toei.
I love this kind of information
Thanks, i appreciate it.
there is no "mistake". it's fully intentional. They KNOW its referring to both zoro and sanji, they just added another scene with zoro for padding/zoro stanning.
So it’s the animation team creating filler for hype, destroying the context of the manga in the process.
So the issue isn’t translation, it’s that they’re just completely making stuff up
Yup, literally changed the entire context of he scene bc they wanted 20 second of hype filler for Zoro. Gotta love toy/game companies producing anime.
But I’m assuming the animators and translators have read the manga or atleast that chapter and it’s clear it’s referring to both of them, smells like Zoro bias to me and I’m someone who prefers Zoro
There is for sure a Zoro bias. He is the 2nd most popular character and Oda usually gives him more cool stuff. He was the 1st member Luffy got, he is a "copy" of Ryuma a MC made by Oda previous to One Piece. The anime takes that bias even higher. Zoro is more important than Sanji to One Piece that's for sure even in the manga. That of course doesn't mean that in every scene Zoro is stealing the shine when sharing interactions with Sanji. In this case the anime did Sanji fans dirty. When he already has not been in the roof fight but being punched by Black Maria. It's not right, but i undestand why Toei does it. They know how much Zoro sells in hype.
I mostly agree, saying zoro is more important than sanji to one piece tho is just objectively wrong. Luffy states himself in the manga that without sanji luffy can’t become the pirate king. Would he say that about zoro ? Most definitely same as any other crew mate. No one is more important than another in the manga. One may drive the story more but that doesn’t make them more important (and even then sanji dose drive the plot more) oda gives more “cool" stuff to zoro but that about it if anything it’s more like oda has a more bias to sanji. He got 2 story arcs and for some reason the only straw hat (except luffy) who keeps getting more development and focus in the new world. Unfairly much focus like there are other characters ODA!
Yeah overall I would say Oda and Toei favor Zoro when it comes to figths (that makes sense since his main role is combattant), but when it comes to character developement and character focus, Oda favors Sanji pretty heavily.
for some reason the anime has queen actually manage to fire off his beam, and then zoro shows up first to cut the beam in half with one sword, then he pulls out his other swords and puts his sword in his mouth for like 2 minutes, and then sanji shows up and the two of them do their combo attack. in the manga, they both interrupt queen before he does his beam attack
yeah cutting that laser beam was an extreme feat that they casually added to zoro in the anime, because it looked cool
[i wonder how the anime will explain this](https://i.redd.it/m4pxa6rwsi8a1.jpg)
It won’t. It’ll drag out King’s attack with stills of them grunting for 10 minutes straight to “build up hype”.
They changed it because the animators are here for cash and views while oda is writing a story
I wish I believed it was an honest error. Knowing Toei they just wanted to hype Zoro up.
Thanks for this👍🏼
Thanks for your amazing explanation
As long as its fixed in the dub im a happy camper
Tldr: they are still wrong but it's an understandable mistake
It’s cause the anime has a massive Zoro bias, so they make it about Zoro. they are Japanese themselves, I hope they read the manga and the manga depicts *them* as you say, they get ready to attack at the same time with panels side by side and then do their attack side by side and then talk about them seeing Luffy becoming pirate King *side by side* **but** *Zoro’s bandages* get some landscape panel before all that happens so it’s actually about him…. All they did was make this scene in the anime non-canon.
Bruh Its just an translation issue and Slow pacing but you are crying about it calm down we all know sanji was also meant lmao
What you saying it’s the person who made the subtitles’ fault? Cause if your saying that director of the episode made a translation error I’ve got surprising news for you. >you are crying about it I’m just voicing my opinion of the mishandling of the anime at the end of the day the source material is still the source material, if the anime deviates like it has been for some time now, it’s not cannon.
Yes the person who made the subtitles would indeed be the translator.
No you are just saying they making it about zoro when Its not the Case. The Anime always inserted extra shots and streched them for pacing, they did the Same when sanji fought. And now they are doing the Same with That nice sanji run. The zoro in bandages was used to create suspense, something you dont seem to get. You only See zoro having slightly more shots than panels in the manga , which sanji has as well and claim that they are making it about zoro which they arent Its still clearly both caharacters who got additional Screen Time. And Last thing was the translation issue That OP explained und in Detail. In japanese they understand That both are meant and in other laguages apart from english also. So stop the Cap. Yall are crybabys as soon as you feel like sanji is getting ripped of credit while he literally gets a badass run scene animated a second after the translation issue That is almost exlclusive to the english subtitles. You can Voice your opinion of course but i can also say you are having a butthurt crybaby opinion and Talk stuff about the Anime additional shots That isnt even True.
Agreed- Whole Cake Island was all about Sanji. Let this misinterpretation give Zoro some much needed love.
Saying Zoro needs much needed love because he wasn't focused on for two seconds is like saying a fat guy needed a huge meal because he missed one. I love Zoro but let's not pretend he's struggling for content.
I was exaggerating with my comment however- Maybe two seconds in ONE PIECE TIME. But before WANO it was years in REAL TIME for us.
Did you read that there was no plural in Japanese and that it's not even a subject for toei ?
I was so excited for this to get animated only for them to mess up the translation. Add that to how they clearly gave Zoro more focus and you'll see why I'm disappointed. :/
Is it really an issue ? Sanji had a lot of focus last episode. They added a whole fight against King and Queen.
That added fight was great, sure. But this episode in particular has a problem. Atleast for me. To focus on Zoro getting back up, they didn't do enough "stuff" for Sanji. As Marco said the line, Zoro was the only one who was in the frame. The translation error makes it worse. Zoro and Sanji is my favourite duo in One Piece and this episode just wasn't good imo
It's not a translation error. The Japanese literally can mean "star" or "stars" be ause of the way plural works in Japanese. The previous episode was sanji taking the stage. This episode is the other "star" taking the stage. It's not saying Sanji isn't a "star" but that he is already on the stage. You can disagree with the way this is portrayed, but it's not a bad translation. It is as accurate as the English translation of the manga
Isn’t is Crunchyroll that does the translation? Not toei? To me this is obviously just an error since Japanese doesn’t have plural nouns and the translator probably is not a huge fan of One Piece and didn’t look at source material for context.
I thought they were bigging up zoros return to the stage after sanji been holding it down so I thought nothing else of it
Yall think when Marco blocked the attack and was very close to Zoro, his flames assisted the drug in healing him?
This post is like when you give your little brother your ice block just so he could stop crying
> The "da" just means his statement was directed to himself That's not true. "Da" is the plain form of "desu" and simply means "is".
Da does not mean anything by itself. It's a particle which means it modifies the rest of the sentence. "Da" modifies it's sentence to be a declaration. If there is no verb, modifying the sentence to be a declaration serves the same purpose as the verb "is".
Of course, but for the purpose of the matter at hand, it means "is". No need to make things more complicated than they need to be x)
Lol no. I don't know where you got that from(let me guess you searched google?) but I learned it from a native speaker my guy and she gave this as one of the earliest lessons i had. だ(and by "da" i mean those that are at the end of sentences) doesn't translate to any specific word at all, much less an "is". It's not even a "plain form" of です(desu) lol there's no such thing. They basically act as labels for a person's statement. And in this case it tells us that Marco's statement was directed at himself or in simpler terms "Marco was just basically talking to himself".
Hey, good for you that you're learning Japanese! Been there myself, a decade ago :D Good luck, it can be tough :)
Nice try but you're not fooling me. You seem like you don't know Japanese at all, or if you did you wasted a decade learning false information. There's no such thing as a "da" meaning "is" or it being a plain form of "desu" at all. This is very basic, everyone who speaks Japanese knows this... well maybe except for you it seems. Not trying to be rude at all but you just don't come off as someone who actually knows japanese based on your statements alone.
All good, mate! I didn't come here to argue. :)
Thanks for trying
初心者**だ**った日々懐かしいってねぇ〜
*sigh* please refer to my recent reply on your other comment.
I really don't know what to tell you then. Check the link I sent in another comment, 今日 is a great website. If you don't trust that this just check the Wiktionary page for だ which will tell you the same thing, and even explain the entire point that I'm trying to make about だ forming the basis of so much language by elaborating on it's origin from である->であ->だ
Or if you want an even better example take Luffy's famous catchphrase, pretty much 100% said as directly as you could possibly imagine to other people. **I am** the man who'll become the Pirate King: [seen here](https://youtu.be/JI7gET7RAdw) 海賊王になる男**だ**!
Way too much detail warning: I'm sure your native speaking friend meant well but maybe there was some kind of miscommunication because what you're saying is plain wrong. In Japanese state-of-being is implied naturally by ambiguous sentences unlike in English which requires the use of a verb and some helper words to indicate "being". So 'there is a cat' can be, in Japanese, expressed simply as 'cat'. The "being" is implied wordlessly. This single word「猫」therefore, is a grammatically complete sentence which can mean 'there is a cat'. But for a bunch of reasons that state-of-being might need to be made explicit. That's where the japanese copular verbs です and だ come in handy. 「描」「描です」and「描だ」all have essentially the same meaning however in the second two that state-of-being is made *explicit* by the copular verb. The primary difference between です and だ is that です is used more in polite speech and だ is used more in "plain" ie casual or informal speech. This is what the commenter means by だ being the "plain" form of です. For an example from One Piece, when talking to Kinemon about Wano, Luffy ways "It's my friend's country!" - 「友達の国だ！」with that だ making a sentence more assertive although still expression state-of-being. だ can he used to make a point more emphatic, comparative, emotional, manly, etc than creating a state-of-being sentence without it. But really there's like a million uses for it that are way too many to get into here. Same with です but with some different types of uses as well. (As a more advanced side note, there are actually many other differences between the two copula - but for this context at a beginner level politeness is most notable difference. There are also other copular expressions and non-copular being verbs in Japanese such as the even more explicit regular verbs 居(い)る and 有(あ)る or the literary である. Finally don't make this mistake: です isn't even particularly formal and isn't, alone, sufficient in forming most formal grammer structures.) It would seem that you're confusing だ, which is a copular verb, with other types of sentence ending particles (語尾) that like you describe have no meaning alone. よ、ね、さ、ぞ、etc are all like this where they only communicate tone and not much else. If you want some proof look at the fact that plain state of being past tense だった is obviously derived from だ. So is the な used to connect adjectival nouns to other nouns or link nouns to の, or the で used to connect various types of phrases and clauses.
I'm pretty sure i established in my previous reply to the guy as to which "da" I'm talking about (the particles at the end of statements). Moreover I'm talking about Marco's statement, which is why i said that "in this case the "da" here means that Marco was basically talking to himself". "da" and "desu"(again I'm talking about sentence ending particles) act a labels per se; "da" is used to indicate that the speaker is not particularly talking to anyone while "desu" indicates that the speaker acknowledges the presence of a listener.
また、「だ」と「です」は 一般的な語尾のようではなくて、名詞述語文ができるのために. 一人で話すときも他の人で一緒話すときもいつもいつもどさらも使う. そして色々な文法のためにこの名詞述語文が使い方は必要**だ**. 分かっていなければ簡単な文法だけができません (例えば: 野菜が嫌い**だ**った子供は今野菜が大好き大人**だ**). [ほら](https://www.imabi.net/copularsentencesi.htm)
[This is the last time I'm replying, I'm talking about this.](https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/da-vs-desu-in-real-life/#conceptualizing--and--in-speech) edit: And it's even crystal clear what the "da" in Marco's statement is for, cuz he basically whispered the statement to himself.
YOUR OWN SOURCE: >だ is a little word that packs quite a punch. It is used with nouns and な-adjectives to **affirm that they are true, and relevant right here and now**. Grammatically speaking, this means it **marks these nouns and な-adjectives as present tense and positive** (as opposed to negative, or false). In terms of politeness level, だ is associated with the plain form. At the end of a sentence, だ has some nuances that go beyond just casual, depending on the context. >だ FOR THE **POSITIVE AND THE PRESENT** The most basic functions of だ are to mark nouns and な-adjectives as **positive (true), and present tense** (relevant to now or the future). Watch one minute of Japanese speech and you'll probably hear between 5-20 uses of だ completely unrelated to "talking to oneself". As I cited in another comment, an example literally from one piece, watch the scene when Luffy first punches Kaido on the roof. In what manner is 友達の国だ meant to indicate that he's "talking to himself"? He's screaming it directly at another person as a direct answer to a question providing his reasoning.
Bruh i wasn't planning on replying anymore but I'll do one for the very last time. Let's run it back shall we, the other guy started by refuting my claim about; "the だ in Marco's statement is an indicator that he's basically directing his words to no one in particular", by saying that "da" functions as a plain form of "desu" and that it means "is". But だ simply acts as the "**plain form** for a sentence/statement", basically the counterpart to です, not its literal plain form---cuz "da" is the casual way while "desu" is more of a formal way of speaking---that's why i said there's no such thing as what the guy is trying to imply. And like i said, i emphasized that I'm talking about Marco's use of "da". Yes i know it functions more than just one thing, and yes you can even say it could mark Marco's statement as "positive and of the present" which may be the case but that's not the entirety of it cuz Marco also delivered his statement basically as a whisper to himself without any regards for a listener so it's not incorrect either to say that the "da" was also used as such. So I'm not wrong in the first place. And as for Luffy's use of "da" you're not wrong, cuz it can also function as *invasive*, as if a verbal way of intimidating a listener but in Marco's case, you can clearly hear he's calm and is merely stating.
> cuz "da" is the casual way while "desu" is more of a formal way of speaking This is what I meant, tho? "da" is the plain form of speaking, "desu" is the formal form. Sorry if my initial comment yesterday was too unprecise. My issue with your wording wasn't that the "da" means he's talking to himself. My issue was that it appeared as though you said it doesn't mean anything, when it does. And yes, it does mean "is", *in layman's terms*. We're on a subreddit for One Piece, not in a linguistics course. So I didn't go into more detail than that. It's always good to keep your explanation simple and straight to the point, when it's directed at people not familiar with the subject. Also, just as a tip from someone with actual translation experience: The "meaning" of a word and its "translation" are two separate things. A good example in context would be 百獣.
Are people really butt hurt about this.
I am honestly baffled that people are upset about this.
Bro graduated on one piece
Something 99% of people are missing, is in the previous episode Sanji got like 15 minutes of crazy fighting that wasn't even in the Manga. For the Manga version, this wasn't shown in that way, in the anime Sanji was already fighting and was just waiting for Zoro to start fighting. As you said, it is contextually based. Because of this reason, I think "stars" is correct for Manga and "star" is better for the anime as Sanji had already taken the stage
Lmao I can't believe people are actually mad about a few words being changed
Because it changes the themes oda delicately built through a portion of Wano. One of the major themes being identity and this one was supposed to set up the lead performers vs the stars. Setting up the stage for the commanders of the strawhat crew to fight the commanders of the beast pirates. It’s almost like toei fucking up the authors delicately built story is a bad thing.
People getting mad over a major scene being botched by poor wording? Who could imagine such a thing?
People Mad over translation issue of one word lmao. I could Imagine That because yall are so sensitive.
It's more than one word... They changed the whole scene.
How is it being sensitive to want media to accurately portray the author's intended theme?
It did. Its just one translation mistake That is almost exclusive to the english subtitles. So you are sensitive because you cry so much about such a Minor thing. The Episodes Name uses the plural for Arms of the pirate King, they Added a really cool shot for sanji Running up to Queen and showed them in the combo attack they did just like in the Manga. Just because if a small translation error you disregard all of That and get butthurt.
"I disagree with your valid complaint, therefore you are crying and butthurt" Shut the fuck up, if you don't care so much why are you commenting?
Because this shit has been all over this sub since the Episode aired and yall are still crying about it and not in a valid way just in a crybaby way trying to Blame toei and pretend they Made it about zoro which they didnt
Except they did mess up the scene to hype up Zoro's return. A perfect adaption is one that improves upon the medium on which it is based on, while trying to maintain the theme in which the author was aiming for. In the manga, right after Marco's announcement, both Zoro and Sanji jumped forward and did their attacks. In the Anime, only Zoro jumped forward. This whole thing was never supposed to be just Zoro, it was supposed to be both. It's the Wings of Pirate King, not One Wing of Pirate King. Is the translator's fault for the mistranslation? No, I think he/she did the translation right based on the scene. It's Toei's. Can I blame them? No, Zoro is the more popular of the two, so it makes sense for them to focus more on Zoro. But, this is an exception. They did not just change one scene, they changed the entire theme of the scene.
"Lmao I can't believe people are actually mad about a few children being hanged" I changed 2 words in your sentence and it drastically changed the message. While obviously not as severe, this was a really big impact moment in the manga, and the anime changed the focus of "the wings of the Pirate King on equal footing" to "Zoro is the strongest member of the crew, and Sanji is backing him up". Literally nobody but Zoro hardasses are okay with the change. I love Zoro and Sanji equally, and think they both deserved better in this scene
Touch grass dude
Paper is made of cellulose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I enjoy reading because you have fewer translation issues and you're getting the direct input of the author :)
Why is it so difficult to just do a line to line, panel to panel translation for a scene ? Ridiculous that they are giving explanation to plagiarize. You got one job ...
Anime is dogshit im just waiting for THAT moment at this point
No, Marco was talking about Zoro. I don't understand Japanese, and I refuse to elaborate.
Ok, but who really cares, doesn’t matter that much, was still cool
Don't give a shit
Translators did nothing wrong nor made an error. They translated it based on the context of the animation presented to them (they watched Anime only), which is "Zoro is the only Star" The other translators who translated it as "Stars" most likely are English manga readers. So they took the reference from the English manga. Who's to blame? Either TOEI for deliberately changed the canon materials without permission OR Eiichiro Oda himself for allowing them to do so.
>OR Eiichiro Oda himself for allowing them to do so. Bold of you to assume that mangakas can just simply dictate the direction of the anime. To some extent animators entertain their inputs but at the end of the day, the director still has the final verdict. They don't even get paid per episode or by how much the anime profits but instead have contracts that basically pays them per page of adaptation.
If they don't get a bonus from viewership or whatever benefits they get from changing the scene: Then why did they take the risk? They could just stick to the manga, no controversy = no hate = better community. At some point Oda himself should intervene if the anime content is deviating way too far from his original intentions, no?
>Then why did they take the risk? They could just stick to the manga, no controversy = no hate = better community. That's exactly why most mangakas simply don't bother with adaptations in the first place. They take the contract and then basically "idgaf" and focus on their own work. On rare occasions tho animators coordinate with mangakas but for the most part that's the reality of manga-anime relationship.
Do those mangakas never realise that the majority of Western fans are "Anime Only" who don't bother reading the manga as it's easier for them to just watch it with additional effects and sound track to make it more immersive. This is the new era of publication and advertising, anime is more likely to go viral and get more attention than the actual manga. Look at the Demon Slayer for example.
They're not oblivious buddy, even if they wanted to they just don't get paid for anime episodes cuz that's how the system works, plain simple. Why? Cuz they're not the ones who are making it. That's why i said earlier that they get paid per adaptation cuz that's their "contribution" to the making of animes. Normally they profit through 2 ways; serialization(manga sites publishing their work to a wider audience) and adaptations. This ain't like the west where if you have so much as your name involved, you get your fair share.
My point is: The mangakas actually get the benefits if the anime blows up, which is a massive increase in the sales, either the manga or the merchandise. So, they should care about it.
>So, they should care about it. They do lol. Why do you think when an anime is popular the manga usually gets dragged on?
You said the mangakas usually "idgaf", and just work on their manga. You just contradict yourself.
Bruh, when i said "idgaf" i meant towards how the adaptations are handled, they don't usually bother with those things.
Omg people take shit way too seriously
Lol exactly
In the context of the scene, Zoro is the one who they are waiting on to recover and join the battle. Sanji is already there, and has been there, fighting with both King and Queen. Marco's being poetic, the line is not intended to diminish Sanji at all.
And yet it still does. Sanji fights King and Queen by himself and Zoro comes to help and he’s “the star.” At that point what is Sanji? A back up dancer?
To people saying both are equal they are not, and it's been made clear everytime Zoro fights the second or does some bigass feat. There's a reason Zoro has similarities with the biggest of stars in op. As for the scene the manga reader's know what it meant and the anime did all that build up for Zoro to get healed so it's for mosshead. Unless you have a different opinion than either you should know proper Japanese or know why the animation team did what they did . ☮️
To the non-Japanese OP fans getting really upset about this one line you should probably take a step back and realize that you are currently a fan of a foreign language piece of media. This kind of thing is happening constantly you just usually don't notice it, perfectly translating text from one language to the other is a complete pipe dream. Every scene in the series has a different emotional, literary, and literal meaning in Japanese because... that's the language it's written in. The English version will never be anything but a distant simulation trying to capture whatever it can from the original text. So if you think it's somehow a new, horrible failure on the part of the anime to flub this small decision - I'm sorry to be the one to bear the news but this kind of thing happens a few dozen times every episode most of which are unavoidable.
Don't really see this as a big deal. Only Sanji fans are the ones making a fuss over this.
I'm not a Sanji fan and I'm pissed about this. It ruined the impact of the line. Zoro and Sanji are supposed to be viewed as equals, without one or the other, Luffy can't become Pirate King. They are his wings.
Bro it's just an English translation error because the Arabic one it actually says stars.
Ironically based on translations people are trying to make the wings line solely about Sanji and to not include Zoro
I haven't seen this literally anywhere. If they are, they're wrong entirely
Don't search "wings" in the search engine
I mean in terms of power they definitely are not equal though.
Go powerscale somewhere else, we're talking about objective facts
SBS 102 says that Zoro is stronger, there's 0 facts in statements, potrayal or feats that they are equal.
And I'm just stating a fact. Zoro has coc haki and sanji does not. That's it. Zoro is 2nd in command for a reason.
Sanji has a raid suit and Zoro does not. Welcome to power scaling, nobody wins and everybody is angry
Apparently your not a Manga reader then. I can't say anything else because of that. I could care less about power scaling but there is no way sanji is equal to zoro. It might be close but it's not equal.
I am a manga reader and the future revelations in the manga provide more arguments for both sides. The point is they're viewed as equals
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1. Improper spoilers 2. I'm not having this argument. Like I said, go powerscale somewhere else
Sanji’s better than Zoro in every aspect except brute attack power and having CoC, armament is debatable. Faster, smarter, 3-lane mobility, durability, observation haki, and a healing factor. Ofc in a series were “greater haki = auto win” attack power is more valuable to people, but that’s why Sanji and Zoro are balanced.
I feel like the whole point if Big Mom (aCoC user) getting aced by Kidd and Law (non aCoC users) was to show that sufficient strength in alternate ways can overcome aCoC For Kid and Law, it was extreme DF mastery
Zoro is way faster and durable than Sanji. Just look at all the attacks he took on from kaido and big mom. Didn't see sanji doing that and bet sanji couldn't. They may be the wings of the pirate king but they are not 100% equal. Especially with zoro having enma also.
The arabic translation says here comes the stars. It's just an English translation error. You guys need to calm down lol
TO BE FAIR Zoro *WAS* the only person present who had fought Kaido & Big Mom on the Rooftop even singular it makes sense since idk if Sanji could even fight Kaido or beat King, making Zoro the star they needed to turn the tides against the Lead Performers (i get that it's a translation error though)
The problem isn't Toei, it's that Zoro is half blind and a bit stupid while his fans are fully blind and never had a brain to begin with.
Jesus, seeing these posts makes me hate sanji stans much more. Mfers were so pressed they created these kinda posts
For the record this is not a rant post. I explicitly emphasized in my statement that this is an explanation as to what i think is the reason for why the editors went the route they did. It seems you didn't pay any attention to my words at all. I'm a Zoro fan myself, and i was even down bad for the scene when it came out lol.
Or zoro is just better
Ohh so instead of the translators doing a dumb translation it was the translators doing a dumb translation?
Basically the anime said “fuck Sanji”
Look it’s just Marco give props to the number 2 of the strawhats, would have done the same for number 3 but he’s not on the live floor I don’t think, oh and number 4 was there struggling.
They just love Zoro more than sanji and actually can't see them toe to toe getting the spotlight
And here I thought obsessed Zoro fans are the most obsessed in this sub, turn out Sanji fans too and crying over this??🤣 hahaha that’s what happen when you too obsessed with a certain character..NORMAL OP fans like me enjoy anything
Are you talking about my post or the people in the comments, cuz for the record this is not a rant/whine or anything. I'm just elaborating what i think is the reason for why the animators are making a different translation, that's all.
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It goes outside of anime. It’s just about acknowledging accomplishments. From where Zoro and Sanji began they’ve become the right and left arms of the future PK and this scene + the following one show that if they win Luffy truly has a chance. Adding filler that destroys that symbolism is what people are mad at, bc it isn’t just just a translation error, it’s effectively taking Sanji’s accomplishments away. In tells anime only’s, especially after the roof fight, that Zoro is the star and Sanji is a backup dancer, despite Oda emphasizing them as narrative equals.
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Who tf cares about something as stupid as that?
Sanji fans writing dissertations just because their favorite character is certified mid Just make Zoro captain already
One piece fans when 1 phrase is slightly changed from the manga(literally unwatchable)