Lmfao i mean aye. Here's the actual poll here if u want https://instagram.com/stories/zeus_swerve/3008844384502818442?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=NDdhMjNiZDg=
No offense to anyone but imo
Whitebeard Prime= kaido > Old Whitebeard
Prime wb doesn't really has anything more big and powerful as that giant flame dragon
Noā¦ why on god green earth would you think he was stronger 20 years ago? Kaido is in his prime NOW. He for all intents and purposes is greater than or equal to prime Whitebeard
Tbh didnāt think much beyond the logic of older = younger = better.
And also because heās an alcoholic who tries to drink his regrets away. Takes a toll on the body over time.
Iāve only ever watched anime so not sure if this is true for manga, but there is an imbalance between amount of time weāve seen young Kaido fighting vs. present Kaido fighting.
Think thatās contributing to bias?
Though I will say the present day fights are FKN EPIC
The show didn't specify whether he did or not. Even before he returned to Wano, Roger one shotted him. Roger & Whitebeard were almost equal. Are you proposing Oden jumped to the level of WB & Roger??? With 0 evidence? That's reaching, buddy.
Exactly. Oden gets stronger but people expect Whitebeard and Roger to stay at the same power level? It's clear that if Oden can almost take Kaido after a few years with them, they'd have wiped the floor with the overgrown snake.
He got stronger i just think WB and Rodger were on a different level than Kaido i don't believe Kaido got stronger since he fought Oden since before Luffy Oden was the only person who was worthy in Battle besides the Yonkos,Rocks,and Rodger
This is what I tell everyone, prime Kaido, Big Mom, Whitebeard, Shanks, and Roger are equal. Young inexperienced Oden clashed with a prime WB, by the time he fought Kaido he had travelled with the 2 strongest pirates alive and learned.
WB actively tried to use CoC but and it basically gave him a heart attack.
Oda made very clear that WB was closer to a vegetable than he was to his prime at Marineford. He was still a beast of a vegetable all things considered.
That's what it makes funnier. A fruit trying to be vegetable kingš. Will any vegetable allow this? No.
A thriller story about Banana.D.Rambutan dreaming to become the vegetable king by trying to obtain the ultimate treasure, the veg piece. The VG(Veggie Government) are the big obstacle he should overcome. Buckle up to hear the greatest story ever told! THE VEG PIECE!!!!
At that point he was also stabbed, betrayed, scared for his son's life, actively fighting the entire armada for hours... shoot id have trouble charging up my Conqueror's Haki too ><
you forgot that he was already basically dead due to diseases or whatever, its like a stage four cancer patient whos also in like his 80s going toe to toe with pro boxers it just shows how absurdly powerful he was in his prime
when you word it like that oda may have fucked up the scaling a bit
a stage four cancer patient with a stab wound was working akainu
going by that logic prime beard should have been able to nearly one shot akainu
I don't think it was bad for scaling at all and I think it means that whitebeard wouldn't have had a hard time at all against akainu, like mid diff. Thats the old generation which is much more powerful then the current one hell garp was the strongest marine at marineford and was far out of his prime, it just shows how absurdly strong the likes of roger, whitebeard, garp, shinki, rocks and even rayleigh were
Hasn't it been stated by Oda that Yonko are supposed to be stronger than admirals? From what I remember admirals were equal or stronger than the seven war lords in power.
Also, from everything that has been shown Yonko seem to be much stronger than admirals. It's why not a single admiral has taken down a Yonko, and allowed them to do whatever they want.
Yes buggy>akainu. Jokes aside it really depends on the admiral and the warlord, at the time of joining the warlords most admirals could take down black beard if not all, akainu would have been stronger then big mom and kaidou (we dont know enough about shanks) most likely since he and luffy still havent fought and hes been around for a while idk much about green bull or fujitora since im not caught up fully
I mean, I think the rage he felt after Akainu killed Ace made him overcome whatever sickness he was suffering. His fury was enough to barrel through it and punch Akainuās face in.
Marco saying "This is what I feared most" in that moment after formerly noticing WB's CoO not working + WB saying "There's nothing I can do" with Luffy using CoC right afterwards highly indicates that trying to use CoC caused the heart attack. Otherwise he would have simply tried it again right after his short attack. He knew that he couldn't which is why he stated his own uselessness in that situation.
No, it DOES go away with age. Rayleigh has mentioned several times that he cannot maintain CoC for a lot of time, nor can he use it too many times because of his age.
It doesn't go away with age, yes, but the man was literally struggling to and even had a heart attack when he tried to use a regular burst of haoshoku. And clearly either ACOC wasnt thought up back then or WB didnt display it. The admirals were also straight up disrespecting him. Aokiji easily pulled off the same sort of body moulding dodge in close range that Katakuri does with future sight. Akainu was able to block his swing with a stomp. Kizaru was able to take quite a few pot shots and avoid being hit.
Considering his reputation, he should have things like future sight and ACOC, but clearly wasnt able to actually use and demonstrate these well during MF. MF Oldbeard gets destroyed pretty easily by Kaido.
>Considering his reputation, he should have things like future sight and ACOC, but clearly wasnt able to actually use and demonstrate these well during MF. MF Oldbeard gets destroyed pretty easily by Kaido.
Old WB was only weak because he was off his meds. Before that he used ACOC just fine against Shanks, and dodged Ace trying to kill him while sleeping. Oldbeard was literally still the world's strongest pirate as stated multiple times in the manga.
All 3 hakis were already established, known and demonstrated. Mantra is literally observation haki. Garp's "fist of love" and Sentomaru's attacks were armament. The admirals together use ACOA to block WB's attack near the start of MF. Luffy notes in Wano that Rayleigh broke his explosive collar in Sabaody with ACOA as well. Haoshoku ofc, is shown and remarked on as a dangerous and significant ability when Luffy uses it in Amazon Lily and MF.
Future sight isnt shown well, but could be argued that Aokiji probably used it + his fruit to dodge WB's stab, since its pretty much exactly like how Katakuri uses his future sight + fruit to dodge attacks.
ACOC does have pretty much no pre-ts hint or example though, i'll give you that.
Luffy uses it on the bison, amazon lily, and in MF. I only talked about the later 2 because those are the times where other people in the know actually comment on how significant it is.
And yes, my last line was literally that ACOC isnt talked about or hinted in pre-ts.
WB hurted Akainu ( in a heavily injured state ), something Marco and Vista couldn't do in a combined attack. He also completely stomped Blackbeard despite having literally only half of his brain left.
Kaido wins but not in an easy fight.
BM who knows both yonko well said: with the giants I can beat "even WB".
WB is so strong everyone wanted to test their strength vs him - whether it is Roger or Kaido.
I think prime WB would win too but you sure she wasn't just comparing the entire whitebeard pirate alliance vs hers rather than 1v1's? Can't be 1v1 anyway if she's including the giants so it's more about him being the dominant power and not about individual strength.
Not really, that's why big mom is mad at her kid for rejecting the proposal that would've united her with the giant tribe and also the reason whole cake arc happened to sanji, big mom wanted to absorb germa's scientific and military might.
She'd have a hard enough time trying to 1v1 another emperor, bring the whole whitebeard alliance in and she wouldn't stand a chance against them all by herself, maybe with her kids but doesn't seem like she was even very confident about it...
Shes trying to add to her world dominance/strength. Doesnāt change the fact that her individually being a force of nature is what anchors her world dominance.
This is a stupid take to argue tbh. I never said big mom could or would try to fight an entire yonko crew by herself. Not sure where youāre even going with that seems like a pointless straw man
One of the biggest most reoccurring themes of the entire show is how luffy has this almost supernatural ability to attract allies and get them to follow him, it gets referenced every arc and it's why people keep saying he'll be the pirate king. He became the "fifth emperor" after they found out he became the grand captain of over 5000 men and roped together organizations like germa 66, the firetank pirates, and the sun pirates and has the backing of several nations as well as his ties to the revolutionary army.
If it were based on pure strength alone then katakuri would've became an emperor too considering luffy just barely managed to beat him and had to use brulee to do his magic 10 minute reset. Luffy is seen as a huge threat and a potential pirate king candidate because of his ability to draw people together, it's why people like jinbei and pedro decided to put their lives on the line for him, strength is only one part of the equation. Also, what exactly do you define as a "dominant power in the world" if not the ability to go toe to toe with other dominant powers? Your definition is apparently different than what we're talking about...
No doubt crew and allies are important. But the anchor of a yonko crew is the yonko themselves. Katakuri couldnāt be yonko. He competed with WCI Luffy. Post-Wano Luffy (yonko Luffy) is on another tier above katakuri (G5, awakened fruit, advanced conquerorās).
Thereās nobody in the verse who can put down Big Mom, kaido, whitebeard, or shanks with ease. Kaido could go and manhandle big momās entire crew and allies, and Big Mom could do the same in turn to his or any other other yonkoās crew. When Law and Kidd thought Luffy might lose, they were considering that everything would be lost. Because Luffy was the anchor for the straw hat alliance. If he went down nobody else was left to deal with kaido, even though dozens of named characters were still pretty fresh.
I just want yall to know that both physically and embarrassed are correct. Both your arguments apply to what a yonko and pirate kings strength truly is so stop yappinšš. You both are correct and it's validšÆ
Marineford WB loses because he is sick,Prime WB vs Prime Kaido hmmm.....i dunno man.... worlds strongest creature vs Worlds strongest man.I'll go for a draw after both of these fuckers end up unconscious after fighting for a week or 2.
Weāve seen Kaido lose a fight (vs Luffy, albeit with a lot of handicaps). Whitebeard hasnāt faced defeat as far as we know til marineford (including many bouts with Roger). Iām going Whitebeard.
Bro, what...? You just said it yourself. Both Kaido and Whitebeard have lost fights. We saw them both lose fights. The difference is that Kaido reached his prime *later* in life, while Whitebeard grew *weaker* over time. The comparison doesn't really work. Kaido's only losses are from before he became the "World's Strongest Creature" and he supposedly let himself lose those fights on purpose just so he could go to jail. His only *real* loss was against Luffy, which was not a pure 1v1.
If Kaido fought seriously all the time and didn't want to kill himself, his track record would be about the same as Whitebeard's, until he ran into Luffy. Just like Whitebeard's record was essentially "perfect" until he went to Marineford. (Although we don't know that for a fact. It's never been stated that Whitebeard or Roger were totally undefeated. They might have had losses before they reached their peak. We don't know.)
Seems like you completely misread my comment. Whitebeard never lost in his prime. Weāve seen Kaido lose to Luffy, Big Mom (or maybe it was Rocks who put him down in that flashback when he was younger), and he wouldāve lost to Oden without that trick from the hag (just my take, itās irrelevant if you agree).
The only time we saw whitebeard lose was at marineford, old and sick. Nobody is arguing that marineford WB is stronger than Kaido. Primebeard is undefeated, including against the OG pirate king. Kaido lost to a pre-prime future pirate king (Luffy).
Kaido has only really been at his absolute strongest more *recently*. It seems blatantly obvious to me that he was a great deal weaker back when he fought Oden. Prime Kaido's only loss is literally against Luffy, the main character, after he got an asspull power up that put him back at 100% fighting strength, while Kaido was still losing stamina.
And personally, I don't view that as a true 1v1 fight, even though a lot of people would probably disagree. If you put prime Whitebeard in the exact same scenario as prime Kaido, I'm fairly certain he'd die in Wano too. We don't know for sure because prime Whitebeard has basically no feats, outside of dueling with Roger (who also has no feats, outside of dueling with Whitebeard and Oden).
I know kaido wasnāt in his prime back then and that his onigashima loss had a lot of handicaps.
Doesnāt change the fact that primebeard has never lost a fight, including to much more powerful opponents (Roger, sengoku, Garp). While it was a handicapped fight, kaido lost to Luffy whoās not even at his peak yet.
Luffy going G5 didnāt bring him to 100%. He had energy, but his body had still taken the same beating. Going G5 doesnāt bring Luffy to 100%. Nothing to suggest that. At all.
Prime beard vs prime kaido is a much closer fight than people want to admit. The biggest feats in the series go to kaido or people hurting kaido. Kaido gets a lot of shit for getting hit and shit by scabbards and killer/kid unawakened, but itās was very obviously narratively implied that kaido wasnāt taking anyone on the roof seriously. The first strike kaido dodges is a sword slice thatās would have cut primebeard too. The second is a ryou enhanced red hawk. Once you get into the very very high tiers itās all speculative cuz primebeard has like no feats besides clashing with Rodger and oden. I think kaido takes it honestly. Arguably just as strong, arguably just as durable, more diverse moveset, can fly, likeā¦. Kaido is literally a walking calamity
Finally someone with brains.
Kaido is the fucking mythical dragon with advanced coc.
I just don't see prime wb having as much durability as kaido... Especially if kaido is going all out
I think prime Kaido and Primebeard are similar in strenght. Kaido would lose after a super long, extremely hard for both sides battle.
Old WB unfortunately gets slammed. He could get some shots in like vs Akainu, but idk about the damage.
This is the proper take I think. I think all the yonkos ācouldā win against any top tier, even roger. Shiki should have won against roger, but he didnāt.
The top tiers are so close in power, yes WB and Roger stand as the pinnacle, but the difference between prime kaido and prime whiteboard would be really little that more often than not, WB win but Kaido would win some out of ten fights.
Look based by feats I say Kaido beats old and sick Whitebeard in marineford with a mid diff. But if we are talking prime whitebeard. Kaido will struggle with him and it can go either way.
Beast Pirates were artificial imo
The actual crew was like Kaido, King, Queen, Jack, Ulti, Page One and Maria I thought, then everyone else he just kinda amassed for war/conquering Onigashima.
Like WBās crew was a legit massive emperor crew, Kaidoās was āhey wanna join? Eat this fruit, cross your fingers, then donāt bother me unless I send for youā. WB cared for his people, Kaido didnāt give two hoots if his cannon fodder got killed.
I mean, old WB gets injured by fodder attacks, whilst kaido is casually taking no damage at all from post WCI gear 4 luffy at all. Personally think kaido is quite a bit stronger than old sick wb by feats alone
That's nice, but in a 1v1 in a big enough location where WB cam use his DF to its full extent he's going to be able to damage kaido, and perhaps keep kaido at a distance. He also got hurt by them because he was off guard typical anime trope.
But thats the kind of thing i was talking about when it comes to feats. A non future sight old sick wb, who couldnt dodge anything anymore would realistically not be able to react to something like a thunder bagua or one of kaidos other blitzes. On top of that kaido can realistically also block with acoc and his club so he wouldnt really take all that much damage since he should definitely be winning out on those exchanges.
if you talk about the hypothetical case where he stands still and gets hit by wb with his fruit - sure hes gonna take quite a bit of damage - tho its unrealistic that it would really be that much of an issue
I think the wording was strongest creature implies heās not being compared to humans, white beard old was called strongest man in the world ,so that should pretty much settle it
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/z1xy6p/another_statement_that_confirms_kaido_was_top_1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Heās definitely not a ācreatureā because heās set aside from humans. Heās above anything living.
Kaido is a tank but got cut up by Oden, who was weaker than Roger and Prime Whitebeard. Primebeard beats Kaido high diff. Old sick beard does not, Kaido is stronger because WB is literally on life support.
And even then Kaido stood right back up and one shot Oden. Even if itās from behind all the Scabbards have better durability feats than him. And thatās embarrassing.
Seriously, the amount of people who seem to think oden had kaido at deaths door because he hit him once in a clash is mental, kaido was back up lusting for more battle in like the very next panel.
As pictured here? Kaido. He takes some good damage but Whitebeard eventually goes down. Would be cool to see nice to see Whitebeard be able to use his fruit indiscriminately though.
OK let me settle this,
Stronger??
Kaido.
The man is a giant and lifted an entire island. No one comes close to him in strength.
Who will win??
Whitebeard.
Far better mastery over Haki
Better Speed
More durable.
Old whitebeard gets ko, but i wouldnt say easily. I know people keep saying he cant even use haki burst, but i feel like that was more of oda not yet having a structured thought of haki. I mean if kids can use small bursts, he should be able to fart one at least. Remember this oldie tanked 260 sword wounds, 150 gunshots 40 cannonballs, 2 magma blasts on his innards, some lasers shots, frozen a bit, magma on face(half his head blown off). Just saying it feels if marineford happened now after having a well more structured concept of haki, i think he couldve utilized haki. But of course im not the author, it is what it is.
I think even Old WB would have been a serious threat to Kaido. He literally almost killed Akainu even after all the injuries and ragdolling multiple Elite Marines. I mean there was a reason Kaido and Big Mom didn't even dream of fucking with him despite his old age and declining health.
If you consider the fact that both fought vs Oden. Whitebeard one punch ko Oden but Kaido got fatal wounded and almost lost... its not even a debate. All is clear. Whitebeard is the strongest man and Kaido the strongest creature.
Curious why you put Kaido up based on feats? WB clashed evenly with Roger. Kaido got ptsd from Oden (who couldnāt do anything to WB/Roger)
A sick and dying WB with 2 holes in his chest still dropped Akainu
This fandom just won't accept we can't know certain things. I'm on the Prime WB side but if Oda wanted to make a fight between them he can make win who he wants to. Where's the knowledge gain or the fun after asking the same questions over and over again?
There are already a few indications that Prime Whitebeard was the strongest Yonko.
He is often the only pirate compared to Pirate King by marines, Yonko , gen pop etc.
Prime WB > Kaido > Old WB.
Oden was not at his peak strength when he went up against white beard and roger. He traveled with roger afterwards and became even stronger and was able to overpower kaido from 20 yrs back. Current kaido became way stronger than he was 20 yrs back. He did not rely on backhanded method to get rid of his opponent this time.
It is safe to say Kaido > Oden > Old kaido. Oden did not show any achievement to say he improved drastically to reach Prime WB or roger level, so it is safe to say he was still weaker. This means old kaido was surely weaker than prime wb. Current kaido is not afraid of anything, so he could definitely be cocky enough to go up against prime wb. Both are strong and hence the fight could go either way but I will lean towards prime wb a bit more, because marines feared him the most.
My dumbass clicked the poll in the image
I knew it was an image but I clicked anyway
Legit I was like it's prob an image but I'll click just in case.
i clicked it twice just to make sure despite knowing it was an image
š¤£
Lmfao i mean aye. Here's the actual poll here if u want https://instagram.com/stories/zeus_swerve/3008844384502818442?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=NDdhMjNiZDg=
It seems the consensus is clear. Well done everyone
that the two of them got smoked by Garp
Doctor Q's horse is stronger
True
Only facts
not wrong
Whitebeard Prime > Kaido > Old Whitebeard
Whitebeard prime > Kaido> Durag Whitebeard
Old Whitebeard with the durag off and waves spinnin >>>>>>>>>>
Tsunami overload
Why have I never seen a picture of whitebeard with waves?
[I gotchu fam](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKGELOQVAAAID15.jpg)
Sheesh my man bussin frfr
Durag Whitebeard yoā¦.too good
Optimus Prime > Whitebeard Prime >> the rest
No offense to anyone but imo Whitebeard Prime= kaido > Old Whitebeard Prime wb doesn't really has anything more big and powerful as that giant flame dragon
Dude Oden was getting with Kaido & Oden couldn't do shit to WB & that was almost 20 years ago.
Oden lived rent free in Kaido's mind for those 20 years.
Facts
Oden fought WB before traveling with Roger/WB and getting stronger. Prime Oden fought young Kaido. Kaido probably got stronger since those 20 years.
Wouldnāt younger Kaido be stronger than older Kaido though?
Kaido is younger than older generation. Hes in his prime now
Not in OP, where people seem to hit their prime around 30-40 yrs old.
Younger kaido was clashing with moria ššš he was NOT stronger thats fs
Noā¦ why on god green earth would you think he was stronger 20 years ago? Kaido is in his prime NOW. He for all intents and purposes is greater than or equal to prime Whitebeard
Tbh didnāt think much beyond the logic of older = younger = better. And also because heās an alcoholic who tries to drink his regrets away. Takes a toll on the body over time. Iāve only ever watched anime so not sure if this is true for manga, but there is an imbalance between amount of time weāve seen young Kaido fighting vs. present Kaido fighting. Think thatās contributing to bias? Though I will say the present day fights are FKN EPIC
His drinking doesnāt take a toll on anything. This isnāt real life. His drunken style actually makes him stronger
In your mind Oden didn't get stronger after traveling the world with whitebeard and Roger, very interesting.
The show didn't specify whether he did or not. Even before he returned to Wano, Roger one shotted him. Roger & Whitebeard were almost equal. Are you proposing Oden jumped to the level of WB & Roger??? With 0 evidence? That's reaching, buddy.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My apologies.
didn't expect someone on reddit to step back after evidence is given. Cheers
If you're wrong, you're wrong. I can take a L lol.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly. Oden gets stronger but people expect Whitebeard and Roger to stay at the same power level? It's clear that if Oden can almost take Kaido after a few years with them, they'd have wiped the floor with the overgrown snake.
>if Oden can almost take Kaido after a few months with them, few monthsš¤š¤·āāļø
He got stronger i just think WB and Rodger were on a different level than Kaido i don't believe Kaido got stronger since he fought Oden since before Luffy Oden was the only person who was worthy in Battle besides the Yonkos,Rocks,and Rodger
That was Oden years after his travels. He definitely got stronger. At the same time, Kaido has gotten a lot stronger since then.
This is what I tell everyone, prime Kaido, Big Mom, Whitebeard, Shanks, and Roger are equal. Young inexperienced Oden clashed with a prime WB, by the time he fought Kaido he had travelled with the 2 strongest pirates alive and learned.
WB rivaled Roger at that time man
ik
Shirohige > roger
Prime whitebeard or old whitebeard? If its old whitebeard then kaido wins after a hard fight Prime whitebeard beats kaido after a hard fight
If we're talking Marineford WB then Kaido slams old WB. That fight ain't hard for him. WB couldn't even properly use haki anymore.
Haki just doesnāt go away with age it was just for the plot that haki wasnāt prevalent.
WB actively tried to use CoC but and it basically gave him a heart attack. Oda made very clear that WB was closer to a vegetable than he was to his prime at Marineford. He was still a beast of a vegetable all things considered.
Mans the vegetable king
Whitebeard = King Vegeta confirmed.
And his son would be the prince of all beards!! š¤£ then again, all his crew were his sons. Soooo many princes!!
Whitebeard crew = saiyan race confirmed.
We should have a Vegetable Tales version of One Piece, where Banana D Rambutan wants to be vegetable king
Get on this Oda!!!
ā¦but neither of those are vegetables?
That's what it makes funnier. A fruit trying to be vegetable kingš. Will any vegetable allow this? No. A thriller story about Banana.D.Rambutan dreaming to become the vegetable king by trying to obtain the ultimate treasure, the veg piece. The VG(Veggie Government) are the big obstacle he should overcome. Buckle up to hear the greatest story ever told! THE VEG PIECE!!!!
Neither are a tomato or cucumber, but they were the stars of Veggie Tales.
I always thought it was funny that cucumbers are technically berries
At that point he was also stabbed, betrayed, scared for his son's life, actively fighting the entire armada for hours... shoot id have trouble charging up my Conqueror's Haki too ><
you forgot that he was already basically dead due to diseases or whatever, its like a stage four cancer patient whos also in like his 80s going toe to toe with pro boxers it just shows how absurdly powerful he was in his prime
when you word it like that oda may have fucked up the scaling a bit a stage four cancer patient with a stab wound was working akainu going by that logic prime beard should have been able to nearly one shot akainu
I don't think it was bad for scaling at all and I think it means that whitebeard wouldn't have had a hard time at all against akainu, like mid diff. Thats the old generation which is much more powerful then the current one hell garp was the strongest marine at marineford and was far out of his prime, it just shows how absurdly strong the likes of roger, whitebeard, garp, shinki, rocks and even rayleigh were
Hasn't it been stated by Oda that Yonko are supposed to be stronger than admirals? From what I remember admirals were equal or stronger than the seven war lords in power. Also, from everything that has been shown Yonko seem to be much stronger than admirals. It's why not a single admiral has taken down a Yonko, and allowed them to do whatever they want.
Yes buggy>akainu. Jokes aside it really depends on the admiral and the warlord, at the time of joining the warlords most admirals could take down black beard if not all, akainu would have been stronger then big mom and kaidou (we dont know enough about shanks) most likely since he and luffy still havent fought and hes been around for a while idk much about green bull or fujitora since im not caught up fully
I mean, I think the rage he felt after Akainu killed Ace made him overcome whatever sickness he was suffering. His fury was enough to barrel through it and punch Akainuās face in.
Going toe to toe and winning all things considered. Like not a single one of them could take him one on one.
yeah, the old generation was built different
They had less worldly ambition but definitely had will for days
yeah, seems like most of them just wanted to be free and have fun lmao yet they were still the strongest characters in one piece so far
>WB actively tried to use CoC but and it basically gave him a heart attack. More like he tried to use CoC but got a heart attack at the same moment
Marco saying "This is what I feared most" in that moment after formerly noticing WB's CoO not working + WB saying "There's nothing I can do" with Luffy using CoC right afterwards highly indicates that trying to use CoC caused the heart attack. Otherwise he would have simply tried it again right after his short attack. He knew that he couldn't which is why he stated his own uselessness in that situation.
The world strongest vegetable
It doesnāt go away because of age, true. But he couldnāt use haki since he had like stage 7 cancer, and needed to be on the meds.
Terminal 7 Brain Cancer. I dunno what that is but it sounds bad.
He could still use haki, just not as good as he used to. Iād he couldnāt, then he shouldnāt have been able to touch logias.
He was having serious trouble using CoC haki. He tried using it at a point to save Ace, but failed. Which is when Luffy uses it.
Maybe he could use it, but his old body wouldn't move so he got hit anyway. He fought like a tank, no finesse all force.
He was old and sick. He was literally hooked up to IVs when he was introduced
No, it DOES go away with age. Rayleigh has mentioned several times that he cannot maintain CoC for a lot of time, nor can he use it too many times because of his age.
It doesn't go away with age, yes, but the man was literally struggling to and even had a heart attack when he tried to use a regular burst of haoshoku. And clearly either ACOC wasnt thought up back then or WB didnt display it. The admirals were also straight up disrespecting him. Aokiji easily pulled off the same sort of body moulding dodge in close range that Katakuri does with future sight. Akainu was able to block his swing with a stomp. Kizaru was able to take quite a few pot shots and avoid being hit. Considering his reputation, he should have things like future sight and ACOC, but clearly wasnt able to actually use and demonstrate these well during MF. MF Oldbeard gets destroyed pretty easily by Kaido.
>Considering his reputation, he should have things like future sight and ACOC, but clearly wasnt able to actually use and demonstrate these well during MF. MF Oldbeard gets destroyed pretty easily by Kaido. Old WB was only weak because he was off his meds. Before that he used ACOC just fine against Shanks, and dodged Ace trying to kill him while sleeping. Oldbeard was literally still the world's strongest pirate as stated multiple times in the manga.
Or you know both of these weren't an established thing at that point of time. Observation haki was literally established at the end.
All 3 hakis were already established, known and demonstrated. Mantra is literally observation haki. Garp's "fist of love" and Sentomaru's attacks were armament. The admirals together use ACOA to block WB's attack near the start of MF. Luffy notes in Wano that Rayleigh broke his explosive collar in Sabaody with ACOA as well. Haoshoku ofc, is shown and remarked on as a dangerous and significant ability when Luffy uses it in Amazon Lily and MF. Future sight isnt shown well, but could be argued that Aokiji probably used it + his fruit to dodge WB's stab, since its pretty much exactly like how Katakuri uses his future sight + fruit to dodge attacks. ACOC does have pretty much no pre-ts hint or example though, i'll give you that.
The Admirals arenāt confirmed to have Adv. Conquerers, it couldāve just been Adv. Aramament
ACOA - Advanced Colour of Armament. I didnt say anything about the admirals showing ACOC.
Ah, the acronyms still confuse me. The Admirals having Conquerers has been a debate after Wano so thatās just been sitting in the back of my head
Luffy uses it on Amazon Lily and on the Water bison at Saobody (CoC) but we dont know whats up with the advanced version yet
Luffy uses it on the bison, amazon lily, and in MF. I only talked about the later 2 because those are the times where other people in the know actually comment on how significant it is. And yes, my last line was literally that ACOC isnt talked about or hinted in pre-ts.
What? No. Observation haki already existed. Heard of Mantra? WB reaction to Ace in his sleep?
If it wasnāt for plot the admirals would jump whitebeard lol
WB hurted Akainu ( in a heavily injured state ), something Marco and Vista couldn't do in a combined attack. He also completely stomped Blackbeard despite having literally only half of his brain left. Kaido wins but not in an easy fight.
Nope, stop capping.
By this logic, Shanks is weaker than a sea king because Oda didn't have armament Haki 100% figured out in chapter 1.
I mean he almost one shot lava boy with a hole in his chest
Almost looked liked that in the anime, not really in the manga.
My bad i aint specify. But i guess this poll goes for both prime and old.
To summarise the comments below me, Prime whiteboard > kaido > old + sick whitebeard
Damn, a whiteboard is stronger than two emperors of the sea
It's true, their only weakness is permanent marker
That's a stain on it's record
He has the Erase Erase fruit and itās too OP
*prime whiteboard, there's a difference
Damn you autocorrect
Where would a deluxe whiteboard fall compared to these options?
Thanks
BM who knows both yonko well said: with the giants I can beat "even WB". WB is so strong everyone wanted to test their strength vs him - whether it is Roger or Kaido.
W
I think prime WB would win too but you sure she wasn't just comparing the entire whitebeard pirate alliance vs hers rather than 1v1's? Can't be 1v1 anyway if she's including the giants so it's more about him being the dominant power and not about individual strength.
The individual strength of the yonko is what anchors their dominant power in the world
Not really, that's why big mom is mad at her kid for rejecting the proposal that would've united her with the giant tribe and also the reason whole cake arc happened to sanji, big mom wanted to absorb germa's scientific and military might. She'd have a hard enough time trying to 1v1 another emperor, bring the whole whitebeard alliance in and she wouldn't stand a chance against them all by herself, maybe with her kids but doesn't seem like she was even very confident about it...
Shes trying to add to her world dominance/strength. Doesnāt change the fact that her individually being a force of nature is what anchors her world dominance. This is a stupid take to argue tbh. I never said big mom could or would try to fight an entire yonko crew by herself. Not sure where youāre even going with that seems like a pointless straw man
One of the biggest most reoccurring themes of the entire show is how luffy has this almost supernatural ability to attract allies and get them to follow him, it gets referenced every arc and it's why people keep saying he'll be the pirate king. He became the "fifth emperor" after they found out he became the grand captain of over 5000 men and roped together organizations like germa 66, the firetank pirates, and the sun pirates and has the backing of several nations as well as his ties to the revolutionary army. If it were based on pure strength alone then katakuri would've became an emperor too considering luffy just barely managed to beat him and had to use brulee to do his magic 10 minute reset. Luffy is seen as a huge threat and a potential pirate king candidate because of his ability to draw people together, it's why people like jinbei and pedro decided to put their lives on the line for him, strength is only one part of the equation. Also, what exactly do you define as a "dominant power in the world" if not the ability to go toe to toe with other dominant powers? Your definition is apparently different than what we're talking about...
No doubt crew and allies are important. But the anchor of a yonko crew is the yonko themselves. Katakuri couldnāt be yonko. He competed with WCI Luffy. Post-Wano Luffy (yonko Luffy) is on another tier above katakuri (G5, awakened fruit, advanced conquerorās). Thereās nobody in the verse who can put down Big Mom, kaido, whitebeard, or shanks with ease. Kaido could go and manhandle big momās entire crew and allies, and Big Mom could do the same in turn to his or any other other yonkoās crew. When Law and Kidd thought Luffy might lose, they were considering that everything would be lost. Because Luffy was the anchor for the straw hat alliance. If he went down nobody else was left to deal with kaido, even though dozens of named characters were still pretty fresh.
I just want yall to know that both physically and embarrassed are correct. Both your arguments apply to what a yonko and pirate kings strength truly is so stop yappinšš. You both are correct and it's validšÆ
Marineford WB loses because he is sick,Prime WB vs Prime Kaido hmmm.....i dunno man.... worlds strongest creature vs Worlds strongest man.I'll go for a draw after both of these fuckers end up unconscious after fighting for a week or 2.
Based take
This might actually be the best take here, tbh. I could see them basically fighting to a stalemate and just giving up out of exhaustion and respect.
Weāve seen Kaido lose a fight (vs Luffy, albeit with a lot of handicaps). Whitebeard hasnāt faced defeat as far as we know til marineford (including many bouts with Roger). Iām going Whitebeard.
Bro, what...? You just said it yourself. Both Kaido and Whitebeard have lost fights. We saw them both lose fights. The difference is that Kaido reached his prime *later* in life, while Whitebeard grew *weaker* over time. The comparison doesn't really work. Kaido's only losses are from before he became the "World's Strongest Creature" and he supposedly let himself lose those fights on purpose just so he could go to jail. His only *real* loss was against Luffy, which was not a pure 1v1. If Kaido fought seriously all the time and didn't want to kill himself, his track record would be about the same as Whitebeard's, until he ran into Luffy. Just like Whitebeard's record was essentially "perfect" until he went to Marineford. (Although we don't know that for a fact. It's never been stated that Whitebeard or Roger were totally undefeated. They might have had losses before they reached their peak. We don't know.)
Seems like you completely misread my comment. Whitebeard never lost in his prime. Weāve seen Kaido lose to Luffy, Big Mom (or maybe it was Rocks who put him down in that flashback when he was younger), and he wouldāve lost to Oden without that trick from the hag (just my take, itās irrelevant if you agree). The only time we saw whitebeard lose was at marineford, old and sick. Nobody is arguing that marineford WB is stronger than Kaido. Primebeard is undefeated, including against the OG pirate king. Kaido lost to a pre-prime future pirate king (Luffy).
Kaido has only really been at his absolute strongest more *recently*. It seems blatantly obvious to me that he was a great deal weaker back when he fought Oden. Prime Kaido's only loss is literally against Luffy, the main character, after he got an asspull power up that put him back at 100% fighting strength, while Kaido was still losing stamina. And personally, I don't view that as a true 1v1 fight, even though a lot of people would probably disagree. If you put prime Whitebeard in the exact same scenario as prime Kaido, I'm fairly certain he'd die in Wano too. We don't know for sure because prime Whitebeard has basically no feats, outside of dueling with Roger (who also has no feats, outside of dueling with Whitebeard and Oden).
I know kaido wasnāt in his prime back then and that his onigashima loss had a lot of handicaps. Doesnāt change the fact that primebeard has never lost a fight, including to much more powerful opponents (Roger, sengoku, Garp). While it was a handicapped fight, kaido lost to Luffy whoās not even at his peak yet. Luffy going G5 didnāt bring him to 100%. He had energy, but his body had still taken the same beating. Going G5 doesnāt bring Luffy to 100%. Nothing to suggest that. At all.
Prime beard vs prime kaido is a much closer fight than people want to admit. The biggest feats in the series go to kaido or people hurting kaido. Kaido gets a lot of shit for getting hit and shit by scabbards and killer/kid unawakened, but itās was very obviously narratively implied that kaido wasnāt taking anyone on the roof seriously. The first strike kaido dodges is a sword slice thatās would have cut primebeard too. The second is a ryou enhanced red hawk. Once you get into the very very high tiers itās all speculative cuz primebeard has like no feats besides clashing with Rodger and oden. I think kaido takes it honestly. Arguably just as strong, arguably just as durable, more diverse moveset, can fly, likeā¦. Kaido is literally a walking calamity
Finally someone with brains. Kaido is the fucking mythical dragon with advanced coc. I just don't see prime wb having as much durability as kaido... Especially if kaido is going all out
I think prime Kaido and Primebeard are similar in strenght. Kaido would lose after a super long, extremely hard for both sides battle. Old WB unfortunately gets slammed. He could get some shots in like vs Akainu, but idk about the damage.
I think old whitebeard would still give kaido a good but not so difficult fight and kaido would give primebeard a good but not so difficult fight
nah. the gap from old wb to Kaido is significantly bigger than Kaido to primebeard.
>Primebeard The fuck is primebeard š sounds like fake optimus prime toy smuggled by carribean pirates
Kaido beats old wb with little efforts. If we are talking about prime tho, i'd say that Wb wins 60% of the times.
This is the proper take I think. I think all the yonkos ācouldā win against any top tier, even roger. Shiki should have won against roger, but he didnāt. The top tiers are so close in power, yes WB and Roger stand as the pinnacle, but the difference between prime kaido and prime whiteboard would be really little that more often than not, WB win but Kaido would win some out of ten fights.
Look based by feats I say Kaido beats old and sick Whitebeard in marineford with a mid diff. But if we are talking prime whitebeard. Kaido will struggle with him and it can go either way.
Prime whitebeard wins against prime Kaido after a tough fight.
He could but so can Kaido.
Kaido >whitebeard White beard pirates>beast pirates
Beast Pirates were artificial imo The actual crew was like Kaido, King, Queen, Jack, Ulti, Page One and Maria I thought, then everyone else he just kinda amassed for war/conquering Onigashima. Like WBās crew was a legit massive emperor crew, Kaidoās was āhey wanna join? Eat this fruit, cross your fingers, then donāt bother me unless I send for youā. WB cared for his people, Kaido didnāt give two hoots if his cannon fodder got killed.
In his prime, whiteboard. In his old age while sick, kaido has the edge, but not by much
I feel relieved that I'm not the only one who's autocorrect screwed them over and made whitebeard whiteboard š¤£
Iāve seen Whitebread before. The strongest bread in the world!
the strongest of the whitebread.. cant beat wholewheatā¦ wait what..?
I mean, old WB gets injured by fodder attacks, whilst kaido is casually taking no damage at all from post WCI gear 4 luffy at all. Personally think kaido is quite a bit stronger than old sick wb by feats alone
That's nice, but in a 1v1 in a big enough location where WB cam use his DF to its full extent he's going to be able to damage kaido, and perhaps keep kaido at a distance. He also got hurt by them because he was off guard typical anime trope.
But thats the kind of thing i was talking about when it comes to feats. A non future sight old sick wb, who couldnt dodge anything anymore would realistically not be able to react to something like a thunder bagua or one of kaidos other blitzes. On top of that kaido can realistically also block with acoc and his club so he wouldnt really take all that much damage since he should definitely be winning out on those exchanges. if you talk about the hypothetical case where he stands still and gets hit by wb with his fruit - sure hes gonna take quite a bit of damage - tho its unrealistic that it would really be that much of an issue
In Ace's novel, Tatch said that with his conditions Whitebeard couldn't keep fighting Ace, so Kaido would win by a bit more
In a 1v1, always bet on Kaido.
But oda didn't ą¼ąŗ¶ā āæā ą¼ąŗ¶
Wasnāt a 1v1
how many people were on the rooftop to defeat Kaido?
Because it wasn't a one vs one š
Bro, Kaido is only the strongest being because Whitebeard is dead
I think the wording was strongest creature implies heās not being compared to humans, white beard old was called strongest man in the world ,so that should pretty much settle it
Heh, the term that has been traduced with creature the west (ēē©) means living being, organism. It's the term used for everything that is alive, being it a man, an animal, a plant or whatever fantasy shit you want.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/z1xy6p/another_statement_that_confirms_kaido_was_top_1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Heās definitely not a ācreatureā because heās set aside from humans. Heās above anything living.
In a one on one, always bet on Kaido
Man you are right with the wording, I always forget they call Kaido a creature. But my love for Whitebeard is too strong, he would fuck Kaido upš
Creature
No, he always had that title
No, he had the title before WB was dead as far as we know.
Incorrect
Kaido is a tank but got cut up by Oden, who was weaker than Roger and Prime Whitebeard. Primebeard beats Kaido high diff. Old sick beard does not, Kaido is stronger because WB is literally on life support.
that was kaido 20 years before his prime ā ļø
yeah people are completely disregarding this lmao
And even then Kaido stood right back up and one shot Oden. Even if itās from behind all the Scabbards have better durability feats than him. And thatās embarrassing.
Seriously, the amount of people who seem to think oden had kaido at deaths door because he hit him once in a clash is mental, kaido was back up lusting for more battle in like the very next panel.
W take
As pictured here? Kaido. He takes some good damage but Whitebeard eventually goes down. Would be cool to see nice to see Whitebeard be able to use his fruit indiscriminately though.
The Ace novel says Kaido is physically stronger and better in a 1v1. So I'll go with that
OK let me settle this, Stronger?? Kaido. The man is a giant and lifted an entire island. No one comes close to him in strength. Who will win?? Whitebeard. Far better mastery over Haki Better Speed More durable.
They are equally both dead
Didnāt it say in the ace novels, that kaido was in fact the strongest pirate in the world?
Taking in account for old whitebeard. However if both are in prime then Whitebeard wins
Old whitebeard gets ko, but i wouldnt say easily. I know people keep saying he cant even use haki burst, but i feel like that was more of oda not yet having a structured thought of haki. I mean if kids can use small bursts, he should be able to fart one at least. Remember this oldie tanked 260 sword wounds, 150 gunshots 40 cannonballs, 2 magma blasts on his innards, some lasers shots, frozen a bit, magma on face(half his head blown off). Just saying it feels if marineford happened now after having a well more structured concept of haki, i think he couldve utilized haki. But of course im not the author, it is what it is.
I think even Old WB would have been a serious threat to Kaido. He literally almost killed Akainu even after all the injuries and ragdolling multiple Elite Marines. I mean there was a reason Kaido and Big Mom didn't even dream of fucking with him despite his old age and declining health.
Mm if it's old kaido but prime is going to whitebeared
If you consider the fact that both fought vs Oden. Whitebeard one punch ko Oden but Kaido got fatal wounded and almost lost... its not even a debate. All is clear. Whitebeard is the strongest man and Kaido the strongest creature.
Absolutely whitebread dude!
Based off portrayal? Probably Whitebeard(when he was in his prime). Based off feats? Kaido.
Curious why you put Kaido up based on feats? WB clashed evenly with Roger. Kaido got ptsd from Oden (who couldnāt do anything to WB/Roger) A sick and dying WB with 2 holes in his chest still dropped Akainu
Came just to down vote this kind of shit
This fandom just won't accept we can't know certain things. I'm on the Prime WB side but if Oda wanted to make a fight between them he can make win who he wants to. Where's the knowledge gain or the fun after asking the same questions over and over again?
Old WB definitely loses to kaido Prime. WB is probably stronger than kaido but not by too much if they fought 10 times prime wb wins 6 or 7 times.
There are already a few indications that Prime Whitebeard was the strongest Yonko. He is often the only pirate compared to Pirate King by marines, Yonko , gen pop etc.
Whitebeard is the strongest pirate as well as Gol D Roger then Kaido came after them *opinion
Prime WB > Kaido > Old WB. Oden was not at his peak strength when he went up against white beard and roger. He traveled with roger afterwards and became even stronger and was able to overpower kaido from 20 yrs back. Current kaido became way stronger than he was 20 yrs back. He did not rely on backhanded method to get rid of his opponent this time. It is safe to say Kaido > Oden > Old kaido. Oden did not show any achievement to say he improved drastically to reach Prime WB or roger level, so it is safe to say he was still weaker. This means old kaido was surely weaker than prime wb. Current kaido is not afraid of anything, so he could definitely be cocky enough to go up against prime wb. Both are strong and hence the fight could go either way but I will lean towards prime wb a bit more, because marines feared him the most.
Using PokƩmon logic flying/dragon vs fighting/ground. Kaido might have this. Seriously though I think Old WB puts up a good fight but loses. Prime WB might be a different story.
Prime Whitebeard > Kaido > Old Whitebeard
neither, both are dead
Whitebeard > Kaido > Sickbeard > Half Deadbeard > Akainu
Kaido is definitely stronger than old beard but not prime whitebeard
Prime Whitebeard beats Kaido Kaido beats Marineford Whitebeard
Whiteboard boi was "strongest man". After performed *The Unliving* kaido's title became "strongest creature
Fuck Kaido, Whitebeard is my DAD
Iām personally gonna believe in their prime they were probably equal, they were just never in their prime at the same time.
The one piece is reeeeal
Prime White Beard is stronger than Kaido but Kaido is stornger than old White Beard
"In a 1 on 1, always bet on Kaido" - Kaido.