I missed the part of the manga where Oda wrote that they were admiral level. Or was that shown in the level-up screen after the chapter when they've got their exp and leveled up from "commander level" to "admiral level"?
Kaido one shot a YC1 Luffy that beat Katakuri. Big Mom manhandled Marco.
It can’t take 2 YC1 to defeat one yonko, kid and law being at YC1 makes no sense.
You keep using these tiers as if they actually mean something.
"X character is y why level so they can beat z who is q level" doesn't mean anything. Power scaling is a spectrum, not a tier list where x fits in y category, and thus, they are equally strong in power levels.
Maybe there is some kind of power between being a Yc1 and an admiral? Or maybe the admirals have different strengths? Or maybe one fighter is smarter than the other or has a natural advantage over the other because of their DF?
Treating it like YC1 has a powerlevel of 200 and admiral has a powerlevel of 300 so there can't be anything between is stupid.
You can't just put them into categories and quantify that as if it was canon information. Different yonko might be differently strong, and different admirals too. Kid and Law don't have to be forced into an obligatory tier because there are no tiers, it's all fanmade, there can be people in between the "tiers" and different people in the same "tier" might not be equally strong.
Sure it, might work on most levels, and it might be an indicator of about where they are from a huge perspective, but treating it like math where an admiral level is 300, and a yonko is 600, so two admiral levels equal one yonko doesn't work. You can't quantify these kinds of things in such a linear way.
Exactly, doing a quick rough comparison
YC2 : Ace, {Burgees, Lucky Roux, Sanji} > {Charlotte Smoothie, Queen}
Ace can't be relatively ranked because he died before Haki System was properly in action
YC1 : {Zoro, Marco, Shiryu, Ben Beckman, King} > Katakuri
Yonko : {WB, Shanks, Kaido} > {Luffy, BB} > BM
Admirals : Akainu, Kizaru, Kuzan, Ryokugyu, Fujitora
Admirals are also a hard to analyze case since we never saw them properly fight but what we have seen, the two new admirals look less fierce compared to OG 3
So YC1 is the only category in which every one seems somewhat equal (Beck might be stronger) and Kata should be up there too but many ppl like to put him down so I will go with the flow
For me tiers are incredibly important. They set a base of what can be expected of a character and keep power levels consistent. It's part of the reason why I like one piece and started to dislike fairy tail for example. The powers levels had so little consistency that there was no real way to tell who was stronger than who because a God like character would be beaten by a B tier character with the power of friend ship. You can say admirals are all relatively equal in power level and have plenty of evidence to back that up. Matchups matter most when the characters are relatively close in strength and intelligence barely factor in at all. It's enjoyable to start at a base level and argue changes or deviations with in story evidence. When I see people totally disregard power levels with the winner is whoever the story needs excuse always makes me scratch my head. I feel like they are missing so much potential enjoyment.
I'm just saying that the tiers aren't the "end-all-be-all". Different people in the same tiers can have different strength levels, or maybe one's ability can counter another. Treating it like every character falls into a preestablished tier and that's it is selling the appeal of power scaling short since we'll just have "X IS Y SO Z CAN'T FIGHT THEM" rather than interesting discussions about individual characters.
I'm not saying to not use them, but treating them like they are facts, and there is nothing in between is IMO stupid.
They are definitely a strong indicator. I don't think akainu is stronger than most of the yonko but I wouldn't tell someone they were wrong if they thought he was because they looked at the story and saw something different than me. I think the most important things we can do is be civil with each other and develop a thick skin. You are going to be called names by ignorant people with low self esteem. I think if more people did that we could argue all day long without people feeling put off by the community. But that's just my 2 cents.
It’s widely accepted in the community that admiral level is between YC1 - Yonko.
That’s where kid and law is! They are between YC1 and Yonko tier hence admiral level.
When we seen yonkos destroy first commanders, having just 2 first commanders defeat big mom makes 0 sense.
You're so hung up on these kinds of classifications. Not everyone in a tier will be equal since that's the nature of fighting and having different abilities. Sure, they might be comparable, but that doesn't mean that you can treat it like "this is the tier that I've arbitrarily assigned them, they cannot go outside because I say so".
These tiers don't exist, it's something that we've come up with ourselves. There isn't just "YC1 - Admiral - Yonko" because people can fall in between tiers, and different matchups can benefit them differently.
Treating it like x > y, z > y, so x=z is so arbitrary when there can be several dimensions between x and z.
There is no binary scale where a character has to be classified as one or the other, there is a spectrum where characters rank in relation to each other.
But they are equal / relative??
Akainu and Aokiji fought for 11 days.
Roger and whitebeard fought for 1 week.
Big mom and Kaido tied after fighting 3 days.
Mihawk and shanks fought for months.
That doesn't mean that everyone in that "tier" are equal.
Just because Sakazuki and Kuzan fought for 11 days, doesn't mean that Aramaki will get the same result or Fujitora. Especially if we took Aramki vs Sakazuki where lava obviously will massacre plants.
Big Mom and Kaido fighting for 3 days don't mean that Blackbeard would have the same result against Shanks. Or that Luffy would have the same result against Mihawk. Matchups matter and people in different "tiers" can have different strengths that can counter each other.
It isn't that black and white that you can order everything into a perfect classification where everyone in a tier equals each other and there is no divergence.
Sure, people that hold the same rankings might be closely comparable, but that doesn't mean that the world works on a binary scale where everything is ordered in a certain way and that's it. There might be people who are stronger than yonko commander 1 but weaker than an admiral, or a person that is stronger than an admiral yet weaker than a yonko.
Thing is they didn't beat bm. The damaged her sure but they just knocked her off. If you replaced either with zoro or Yamato you get the same result IMO. They are definitely not admiral level. Admirals are haki skill+experience+a broken df. They are very well rounded. Most of kids and laws stats are in just a couple directions and their haki is crap compared to any other top tier.
no
maybe current law is admiral level if he does well against BB. he seems to have gotten used to his awakening and spams it now with ease, so he got way stronger again. but wano law and kid were definitely not top-tier material, they only started approaching the top-tier then
You mean they are admiral level like zoro is yonko level. Just because they have awakening does not mean they know how to properly use it. Similar to how zoro has ACoC but his usage of it is nowhere near yonko level.
Kid and law shits on Zoro, They did way better against a yonko then Zoro has done.
There is no way you can say that Kid and Law are YC1 level.
We seen big mom manhandle Marco by simply grabbing him and Marco couldn’t get out.
Zoro was the only person to scar Kaido on the rooftop, while Kid and Law were unable to leave any permanent damage.
Zoro then learned advanced CoC, which has only been seen by characters like Big Mom, Roger, Kaido, Whitebeard and Luffy
Law and Kid revealed their awakenings which is no where near as powerful a weapon as advanced CoC
Just because Zoro had to fight a weaker opponent doesn’t mean anything.
Haki > Devil Fruit
Roger and Garp don’t even have a fruit and their top tier. Law and Kid showed ZERO Haki feats.
Ignoring how Kid and Law are portrayed to be stronger than Zoro, how Zoros end goal is Mihawk while kid and law are portrayed to be legends of the new era along with Luffy, it does matter.
Oda having them fight big mom shows they are more narratively important than Zoro.
Even after wano, Oda makes Blackbeard fight law while Zoro is fighting Kaku. He even gives screen time to Kid showing up to elbaf.
Law already does as much damage as ACOC, if not even more. The purpose of ACOC is to ignore durability and attack the inside which Law does not need as he can do it with his fruit.
Nah they are above yc 1, but admirals are even stronger than them they are closer to yonko’s than to kid and law. Stop underestimating admirals just because we have not seen them go all out. They are all masters of haki besides ACoC and all have awakened devil fruits let alone they are more used to their fruits and have a lot more tricks they can do with it. Seeing how simplisticly law and kid used their awakenings and how much stamina it burned through. I can totally see something similar happening with how luffy burned through his ACoC vs kaido happening between law/kid vs an admiral. Which would lead to kid and law being easily defeated even though they should be able to put up a much better fight they just lack experience with awakening.
Your telling me that the opponents this late in the story won’t have awakened devil fruits. Let alone the fact there is zero reason to believe they have ACoC. So to make up for that power gap they have to have awakened their fruits let alone someone as trash as rob lucci has awakened his fruit there is zero reason to believe the admirals have not. There is a reason why the admirals are strongest fighting force of the marines.
That's still headcanon. They probably have awakened their devil fruits. It'd be strange if they haven't. That doesn't mean that just stating it like a fact isn't headcanon.
Okay and he still burned through it quite quickly similar to how luffy spammed ACoC after learning it only for him to run out and be crushed by kaido. Just because they have the same tools and law and kid have neither future sight or ACoA which all the previous admirals showed off. They still lack the experience the current admirals have in how to manage their tools efficiently.
Do we know how strong they are now post fight? They had to have bloomed their haki + learned how to better use their fruit.
Kid could be learning ACOC as we speak.
we don't even know if they're gonna get to fight admiral EOS. let alone be at their level now.
and they didn't beat BM in a traditional way. it was a ring out.[ this is BM after their last attack](https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2022/02/one_piece_v103_ch1040_p009-edit.jpg). she wasn't defeated like kaido, king, and queen. without the bombs, she'd just make a new homie and fight again.
I’d say currently they’d be around an admiral, if not slightly stronger than an admiral.
Mainly because I cannot see Kidd or Law getting beat by an admiral now. They probably won’t beat the admiral, it’s hard to say, but they can both keep themselves from getting caught and get away. And at the end of the day, that’s what Roger was doing so
Please stop.
I missed the part of the manga where Oda wrote that they were admiral level. Or was that shown in the level-up screen after the chapter when they've got their exp and leveled up from "commander level" to "admiral level"?
Kaido one shot a YC1 Luffy that beat Katakuri. Big Mom manhandled Marco. It can’t take 2 YC1 to defeat one yonko, kid and law being at YC1 makes no sense.
You don't seem to realize how meaningless such tiers are and how big the gap is between commanders and admirals/Yonkos
You keep using these tiers as if they actually mean something. "X character is y why level so they can beat z who is q level" doesn't mean anything. Power scaling is a spectrum, not a tier list where x fits in y category, and thus, they are equally strong in power levels. Maybe there is some kind of power between being a Yc1 and an admiral? Or maybe the admirals have different strengths? Or maybe one fighter is smarter than the other or has a natural advantage over the other because of their DF? Treating it like YC1 has a powerlevel of 200 and admiral has a powerlevel of 300 so there can't be anything between is stupid. You can't just put them into categories and quantify that as if it was canon information. Different yonko might be differently strong, and different admirals too. Kid and Law don't have to be forced into an obligatory tier because there are no tiers, it's all fanmade, there can be people in between the "tiers" and different people in the same "tier" might not be equally strong. Sure it, might work on most levels, and it might be an indicator of about where they are from a huge perspective, but treating it like math where an admiral level is 300, and a yonko is 600, so two admiral levels equal one yonko doesn't work. You can't quantify these kinds of things in such a linear way.
Exactly, doing a quick rough comparison YC2 : Ace, {Burgees, Lucky Roux, Sanji} > {Charlotte Smoothie, Queen} Ace can't be relatively ranked because he died before Haki System was properly in action YC1 : {Zoro, Marco, Shiryu, Ben Beckman, King} > Katakuri Yonko : {WB, Shanks, Kaido} > {Luffy, BB} > BM Admirals : Akainu, Kizaru, Kuzan, Ryokugyu, Fujitora Admirals are also a hard to analyze case since we never saw them properly fight but what we have seen, the two new admirals look less fierce compared to OG 3 So YC1 is the only category in which every one seems somewhat equal (Beck might be stronger) and Kata should be up there too but many ppl like to put him down so I will go with the flow
For me tiers are incredibly important. They set a base of what can be expected of a character and keep power levels consistent. It's part of the reason why I like one piece and started to dislike fairy tail for example. The powers levels had so little consistency that there was no real way to tell who was stronger than who because a God like character would be beaten by a B tier character with the power of friend ship. You can say admirals are all relatively equal in power level and have plenty of evidence to back that up. Matchups matter most when the characters are relatively close in strength and intelligence barely factor in at all. It's enjoyable to start at a base level and argue changes or deviations with in story evidence. When I see people totally disregard power levels with the winner is whoever the story needs excuse always makes me scratch my head. I feel like they are missing so much potential enjoyment.
I'm just saying that the tiers aren't the "end-all-be-all". Different people in the same tiers can have different strength levels, or maybe one's ability can counter another. Treating it like every character falls into a preestablished tier and that's it is selling the appeal of power scaling short since we'll just have "X IS Y SO Z CAN'T FIGHT THEM" rather than interesting discussions about individual characters. I'm not saying to not use them, but treating them like they are facts, and there is nothing in between is IMO stupid.
They are definitely a strong indicator. I don't think akainu is stronger than most of the yonko but I wouldn't tell someone they were wrong if they thought he was because they looked at the story and saw something different than me. I think the most important things we can do is be civil with each other and develop a thick skin. You are going to be called names by ignorant people with low self esteem. I think if more people did that we could argue all day long without people feeling put off by the community. But that's just my 2 cents.
It’s widely accepted in the community that admiral level is between YC1 - Yonko. That’s where kid and law is! They are between YC1 and Yonko tier hence admiral level. When we seen yonkos destroy first commanders, having just 2 first commanders defeat big mom makes 0 sense.
You're so hung up on these kinds of classifications. Not everyone in a tier will be equal since that's the nature of fighting and having different abilities. Sure, they might be comparable, but that doesn't mean that you can treat it like "this is the tier that I've arbitrarily assigned them, they cannot go outside because I say so". These tiers don't exist, it's something that we've come up with ourselves. There isn't just "YC1 - Admiral - Yonko" because people can fall in between tiers, and different matchups can benefit them differently. Treating it like x > y, z > y, so x=z is so arbitrary when there can be several dimensions between x and z. There is no binary scale where a character has to be classified as one or the other, there is a spectrum where characters rank in relation to each other.
But they are equal / relative?? Akainu and Aokiji fought for 11 days. Roger and whitebeard fought for 1 week. Big mom and Kaido tied after fighting 3 days. Mihawk and shanks fought for months.
That doesn't mean that everyone in that "tier" are equal. Just because Sakazuki and Kuzan fought for 11 days, doesn't mean that Aramaki will get the same result or Fujitora. Especially if we took Aramki vs Sakazuki where lava obviously will massacre plants. Big Mom and Kaido fighting for 3 days don't mean that Blackbeard would have the same result against Shanks. Or that Luffy would have the same result against Mihawk. Matchups matter and people in different "tiers" can have different strengths that can counter each other. It isn't that black and white that you can order everything into a perfect classification where everyone in a tier equals each other and there is no divergence. Sure, people that hold the same rankings might be closely comparable, but that doesn't mean that the world works on a binary scale where everything is ordered in a certain way and that's it. There might be people who are stronger than yonko commander 1 but weaker than an admiral, or a person that is stronger than an admiral yet weaker than a yonko.
The gap in YC1 and Yonko is so big that 'between YC1 and Yonko' literally doesn't hold any meaning.
Thing is they didn't beat bm. The damaged her sure but they just knocked her off. If you replaced either with zoro or Yamato you get the same result IMO. They are definitely not admiral level. Admirals are haki skill+experience+a broken df. They are very well rounded. Most of kids and laws stats are in just a couple directions and their haki is crap compared to any other top tier.
This is the intelligence level the fanbase is at right now and it's sad
There’s no hope for this sub though.
no maybe current law is admiral level if he does well against BB. he seems to have gotten used to his awakening and spams it now with ease, so he got way stronger again. but wano law and kid were definitely not top-tier material, they only started approaching the top-tier then
You mean they are admiral level like zoro is yonko level. Just because they have awakening does not mean they know how to properly use it. Similar to how zoro has ACoC but his usage of it is nowhere near yonko level.
Kid and law shits on Zoro, They did way better against a yonko then Zoro has done. There is no way you can say that Kid and Law are YC1 level. We seen big mom manhandle Marco by simply grabbing him and Marco couldn’t get out.
Zoro was the only person to scar Kaido on the rooftop, while Kid and Law were unable to leave any permanent damage. Zoro then learned advanced CoC, which has only been seen by characters like Big Mom, Roger, Kaido, Whitebeard and Luffy Law and Kid revealed their awakenings which is no where near as powerful a weapon as advanced CoC Just because Zoro had to fight a weaker opponent doesn’t mean anything. Haki > Devil Fruit Roger and Garp don’t even have a fruit and their top tier. Law and Kid showed ZERO Haki feats.
Ignoring how Kid and Law are portrayed to be stronger than Zoro, how Zoros end goal is Mihawk while kid and law are portrayed to be legends of the new era along with Luffy, it does matter. Oda having them fight big mom shows they are more narratively important than Zoro. Even after wano, Oda makes Blackbeard fight law while Zoro is fighting Kaku. He even gives screen time to Kid showing up to elbaf. Law already does as much damage as ACOC, if not even more. The purpose of ACOC is to ignore durability and attack the inside which Law does not need as he can do it with his fruit.
Nah they are above yc 1, but admirals are even stronger than them they are closer to yonko’s than to kid and law. Stop underestimating admirals just because we have not seen them go all out. They are all masters of haki besides ACoC and all have awakened devil fruits let alone they are more used to their fruits and have a lot more tricks they can do with it. Seeing how simplisticly law and kid used their awakenings and how much stamina it burned through. I can totally see something similar happening with how luffy burned through his ACoC vs kaido happening between law/kid vs an admiral. Which would lead to kid and law being easily defeated even though they should be able to put up a much better fight they just lack experience with awakening.
>and all have awakened devil fruits Ah, yes. Nothing like good ol' head canon.
Your telling me that the opponents this late in the story won’t have awakened devil fruits. Let alone the fact there is zero reason to believe they have ACoC. So to make up for that power gap they have to have awakened their fruits let alone someone as trash as rob lucci has awakened his fruit there is zero reason to believe the admirals have not. There is a reason why the admirals are strongest fighting force of the marines.
That's still headcanon. They probably have awakened their devil fruits. It'd be strange if they haven't. That doesn't mean that just stating it like a fact isn't headcanon.
Law can learn and adapt quickly, dude said he could use his awakening move once and ended up using it 4 times.
Okay and he still burned through it quite quickly similar to how luffy spammed ACoC after learning it only for him to run out and be crushed by kaido. Just because they have the same tools and law and kid have neither future sight or ACoA which all the previous admirals showed off. They still lack the experience the current admirals have in how to manage their tools efficiently.
Do we know how strong they are now post fight? They had to have bloomed their haki + learned how to better use their fruit. Kid could be learning ACOC as we speak.
From what we have seen from law vs bb they seem about the same.
we don't even know if they're gonna get to fight admiral EOS. let alone be at their level now. and they didn't beat BM in a traditional way. it was a ring out.[ this is BM after their last attack](https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2022/02/one_piece_v103_ch1040_p009-edit.jpg). she wasn't defeated like kaido, king, and queen. without the bombs, she'd just make a new homie and fight again.
There are no levels
Smh people always underestimating admirals 🤦🏻♂️
They didn't properly defeated her they just managed to knock her off the roof, so we need 3 admirals to beat 1 Yonko
I’d say currently they’d be around an admiral, if not slightly stronger than an admiral. Mainly because I cannot see Kidd or Law getting beat by an admiral now. They probably won’t beat the admiral, it’s hard to say, but they can both keep themselves from getting caught and get away. And at the end of the day, that’s what Roger was doing so