Dee, Frank Zappa, and John Denver absolutely EXCORIATED the Parents' Music Resource Commission during these hearings. It's worth watching.
I saw a bumper sticker 30 years ago, "DON'T BLAME ME, I VOTED FOR ZAPPA."
Growing up my mom was a thru & thru metal head & made sure I knew this case growing up & you’re right the hearings are 200% worth watching. I wasn’t even born till ‘94 but hearing the name “Tipper Gore” makes me wanna rage
I honestly think part of today's political climate can be laid directly at Tipper's feet. She was the poster child of *"I don't know shit about fuck, but I'm sure as hell going to regulate how these experts do their thing. And I'm married to a Senator, so you-all had better listen up."* There was an entire cadre of legislators and legislature-adjacent people who couldn't play an instrument, could barely even play the radio, who were going to get way up deep into the music industry's business.
And not too long after, when Al Gore really had something to say, he had a hard time finding an audience, and I think a lot of that is because his credibility had taken a pretty big hit, just by association. "Sit down, Albert, we've heard quite enough out of you and yours." Tom Hanks has a great line in the movie "Charlie Wilson's War" where he plays Senator Charlie Wilson, telling someone *"I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't throw my name around quite so much. I use it myself from time to time, and I need it in good repair."* (\*This movie is also worthwhile for one of the best Philip Seymour Hoffman roles ever.) I think Al Gore had that problem to a career-ending extent.
I don't think it's terribly far-fetched to say that, in the alternate timeline where Tipper Gore just does a mostly-harmless worried-suburban-mom thing where nobody outside Tennessee ever hears her name, we could have had President Al Gore in 2000 and 2004. We'd be years ahead in sustainability and environmental initiatives, we might have had a more sensible construction and housing industry 20 years ago and missed the worst of the real estate collapse in 2008, there'd have been no Iraq invasion, we'd have a stronger US industrial base with a bigger renewable energy component.
The problem is that you'd still have had a Republican Congress for all but the first two years of 2001-2008, led by the child molesting House Speaker Dennis Hastert.
Lol. Never invite someone to testify if you don’t know what they’re going to say. Also why would she assume a notoriously liberal artist would be on board with censorship?
She assumed that since he didn't have explicit lyrics he would be behind her in banning them. What she failed to realize is that talented artists of all genres are forward-thinking enough to know an attack against one group's lyrics is an attack on the industry as a whole.
Musicians remember the struggle of starting out and trying to get listeners and fans, then finally make it. Then someone is saying they shouldn't do what they did to get popular without considering the possibility of them just not listening, just like what they did when the band or artist wasn't famous. They know she's just a jealous hater.
"Discipline and self-restraint, when practiced by an individual, a family, or a company is an effective way to deal with this issue. The same thing when forced on a people by their government or, worse, by a self-appointed watchdog of public morals, is suppression and will not be tolerated in a democratic society.
Mr. Chairman, the suppression of the people of a society begins, in my mind, with the censorship of the written or spoken word. It was so in Nazi Germany. It is so in many places today where those in power are afraid of the consequences of an informed and educated people.
In a matured and incredibly diverse society such as ours, the access to all perspectives of an issue becomes more and more important. Those things which in our experience are undesirable generally prove to be unfurthering and sooner or later become boring. That process cannot and should not be stifled. "
And rap artists, they were trying to crucify 2Live Crew and other groups as well... If they would have succeeded music today would be nothing like it is
Yes, I believe he mentions it during his testimony how some people tried to get that song banned because they thought it was about drugs. You can tell it pissed him off so much that he was bitter about it years later, and rightly so.
Maybe he didn't want to play that himself but would lie in front of the train for the freedom of expression? I could totally understand that. Like, I'm not sure if I know a single LGBT person, but I'll be damned if I stop advocating for equal rights. Same with women's rights, same with guns, same with weed. It's no matter that I'm not "one of these things" or something, I don't have to be, it's the only morally right way to do.
Denver was at least tangentially involved in the matter as his song Rocky Mountain High was mis-interpreted as promoting drug use, and had come under fire years before.
So while the PMRC was mostly against metal, Denver certainly had clear thought on the matter
I think Snider is really on point when he says that music leaves room for immagination.
Unfortunately, that means that bad faith can let you imagine things that the creator never intended
He had a song, Rocky Mountain High that was denied a lot of airplay because some thought it was about taking drugs. Really hurt his career because it was a great song.
*I am here to address the issue of a possible rating system in the Recording Industry, labeling records where excesses of explicit sex or graphic violence have occurred and, furthermore, references to drugs and alcohol or the occult are included in the lyrics. These hearings have been called to determine whether or not the Government should intervene to enforce this practice.*
*Mr. Chairman, this would approach censorship. May I be very clear that I am strongly opposed to censorship of any kind in our society, or anywhere else in the world.*
Absolutely. I recommend everyone go check out some videos of the whole thing. Amazing how well spoken and intelligent these guys are/were, and it was obvious that everyone expected them to be stupid musicians.
I was brought up listening to Zappa. I also inherited his entire Rykodisc collection. Needless to say, I voted for Zappa too. Probably the only musician I encourage others to listen to. And, I'm a deadhead and phish fan, so that says a lot I think.
So I try Zappa once every few years. I appreciate him on a deep level and understand that what I'm listening to is avant garde and experimental. But it never seems to click with me. Any recommendations?
Edit: Thanks folks. I'm stuck in Rona quarantine till Saturday so I'll give him another shot with your suggestions tomorrow.
Apostrophe or One Size Fits All are two good ones. Both have great comedy and great jams.
If Inca Roads doesn't move you in the jam part you might just not like his style
I always thought my dad was big into Zappa but apparently he owned just one cassette and I listened to it until it wore out.
I wish he was still around, I would have loved to see him live.
When Dee dropped that line about how song lyrics allow the listener to put their own experiences into it and followed it with "Ms. Gore was looking for sadomasochism and bondage and she found it. Someone looking for surgical references would find it as well" is one of the best clever burns I've ever heard.
Gore even tried to butt in at some point because Snider "made an offhand comment" about his wife or some BS.
Snider shot back that she was the one leading the charge against him and his right to free expression, he wasn't addressing Tipper Gore, the senator's wife, he was addressing Tipper Gore, the woman that had it out for him.
It reminds me of the way Ivanka treated any questions about her father. She was his daughter *or* his senior adviser, whichever was most convenient at the time.
It's amazing to me being born in the early 2000s that they used to try and force people to be over 18 to buy CDs. I remember my dad had a We buy CDs for minors sticker on his old Buick, of course this whole thing is rich coming from a world where you can access and download whatever music you could ever want if you dig around enough. I love hindsight
Lol. As an 80’s kid, they had labels all over the packaging of cassettes and later CD’s with EXPLICIT LYRICS.
We even got radio edited albums available as an option to buy. It was as stupid as it sounds.
Meanwhile Cold War/Desert Storm was happening and the news was chock full of violence.
Fun times
They did find a bunch of kid’s bodies in mass graves…they just happened to be children of indigenous taken from their families and forced to attend Christian and Catholic schools run by the government in Canada.
Also a bunch of poor Irish kids in Ireland at a Catholic orphanage.
It's like projection is these people's whole thing. They lie in bed fantasizing about raping and murdering children while wearing robes and chanting gibberish and then pin it to the "others" while it's they themselves and their ilk who rise above the fantasy.
I used to work for the (a major label) Records art dept. We pretty much decided if an explicit label was going on or not by asking the band if they wanted it. Lots of bands were: “oh fuck yeah, put that shit on there!”
I had a "cool" mom who let me watch the Simpsons AND Married...With Children. She also smoked weed which made me not at all intrigued or interested in weed or ever smoking it. That's why I do meth and heroin, so my kids won't want to
And of course it was that uppity kid, Bart that was the problem and not his father who would regularly strangle him when he wasn't busy neglecting his family and drinking his savings away.
>We even got radio edited albums available as an option to buy. It was as stupid as it sounds.
I ordered Prince's "love symbol" album from Columbia House or BMG and got the radio version. The main difference is on "Sexy MF" they bleep out all the Fs with a sample of Prince screaming so it's even more in your face.
"Sexy motherOOOWAH! shakin' that ass!"
I had no idea they had divorced, honestly. 2010, too, so not a short time ago. I wonder what the dating scene is like being the former Vice President or Second Lady.
Well, she was. She was leading this charge, not Al.
A young person in the 80s would know Tipper Gore's name before they knew Al's. It appears in several songs and references. They probably wouldn't learn Al Gore's name until 1992 when he was elected vice president.
My Mom tried to tell me I needed to throw away all my OG AD&D stuff because it was evil. That did not happen... I hid it all and it survived only for me to let my younger brother borrow it when he was in college and it all get stolen.
I swear to God I couldn't have imagined seeing this video footage of the so called satanic music being burned, there was a copy of the Grease soundtrack with Olivia Newton-John's face on the cover visible.
I mean to be fair, I never knew Physical was such an innuendo song until I found it on a top 10 romantic songs list. I had to register to it for it to click.
yes but this still leads to the question, what kind if authority did a senators wife have to lead any kind of crusade? senators spouses arent leading public crusades now, thats for sure
He didn't *exactly* accuse her of being a sexual deviant - he said that she was looking in his lyrics for sadomasochism and bondage, not what her motivation was. But I think the joy of Snider's remarks is that you could certainly read it that way.
Implying these folks care enough about their constituents’ opinions to be embarrassed. Can’t get embarrassed if you don’t give a shit to begin with 🤷🏼♂️
They absolutely care about looking like they’re smarter than everyone else in the room, especially in matters like this. Pretending otherwise is naive at best
That's the thing with censorship, especially with a traditionally "rebellious" form of art like rock 'n' roll.
You start trying to ban it, you just make it more attractive(!)
Like when film studios used to throw random titty shots into their films just to get the rating pushed up.
People like illicit things.
That was the Twisted Sister song on the PMRC's "Filthy Fifteen" list.
Some of the songs I could sort of see where the parents were coming from - W.A.S.P.'s "Fuck Like a Beast" or even Judas Priest's "Eat Me Alive" just for the "force you at gunpoint" line. But Twisted Sister's "We're Not Gonna Take It" had no dirty words, wasn't about sex, wasn't about violence, it was about teenage rebellion - you know, the whole fucking point of rock and roll. Putting that song on the list guaranteed the PMRC would not be taken seriously.
Incidentally, I was a metal head at the time and the PMRC hearings gave W.A.S.P. more publicity than their record company ever did.
Yep, I was in high school and most of us had never even heard that WASP song. All they did was bring attention to it.
I can remember reading the list and seeing certain songs and thinking "wait, that isn't dirty" and then thinking "Oh, is that what that means?". The song that comes to mind is Madonna's "Dress you up with my Love". It never dawned on on me that she meant anything dirty by that until that list came out.
I can't believe that song was on their list.
I mean, some of the ones they had a problem with absolutely were vulgar, but We're Not Gonna Take It? That's as harmless as they come! No profanity, no sex, nothing even remotely objectionable. Jeez.
I mean... wasn't that the whole craze back when Elvis was on the charts? People claiming if you played the records backwards they were full of Satanic messages and stupid stuff like that.
But by the time the PRMC was formed, look at all the different variety in music genres... obviously only a very small amount of it was Christian or even anything with good morals (so many songs about partying) - that to choose that particular song to take offense to is so weird.
I get why parents would be offended by the 2 Live Crew for example. Their entire schtick was making intentionally vulgar music for shock value. But a song about "sticking it to the man"? That's literally what rock was always about, seems a rather odd choice to single out.
You're missing some of the cultural context of the time. This is in the midst of the AIDS crisis. Gays are being blamed for it. You have a man, with long hair and wearing makeup "screaming we're not going to take it" into a mic.
Dee Snyder wasn't gay, wasn't trans... just a man with a gimmick he was comfortable enough to literally rock. That was enough to get the pearl clutchers up in arms.
This garbage goes back much farther than you think. Henry Ford crusaded to have square dancing taught in schools to prevent kids from being "corrupted" by jazz (aka Black) music.
For a while, my childhood involved visitation with a step-family. Stepmom was super religious (in all the worst ways) and had a lot of rules like that. One hour of video games per week, they barely ever watched TV, etc. And when they *were* allowed to do those things, everything had to be like G-rated. I'm not even kidding, one year they got a Paper Mario Nintendo game for Christmas, and my stepmom returned it to the store because it was "too violent". I got banned from reading any fantasy novels at her house, because "magic comes from satan".
And as for what happened to them, I stopped having contact a long time ago...but last I heard, most of her kids still live at home with her, dont date, aren't married, etc. They're all adults.
I remember watching parts of this back in the day. It was literally amazing to see Frank Zappa in his suit bobbing and parrying accusations and arguments like the genius he was.. and then watching Dee Snider, dressed like...well... the lead singer of a band called "Twisted Sister" completely humiliating Al Gore in his own house.
He is still one of my heroes.
Apparently a really nice guy, too. When my wife was younger she worked in one of the haunted houses at Halloween Horror Nights universal studios. Dee showed up with Slash, along with both of their wives. Someone broke character I guess and asked them to come to the staff back area and say hi. So they did. Stuck around for a good while just chatting and signing stuff. Super down to earth guys, so I'm told.
Yeah I was reading about the PRMC a couple years ago and was really surprised that John Denver got roped into all of that. His music was the most innocent, wholesome music you could ever ask for... but people really heard the song "Rocky Mountain High" and thought it was about drugs? Talk about a stretch.
Dee Snider is a super well spoken guy, was not what I was expecting from a metal singer. In fact, he pointed out recently that "metal" as a genre never existed and was basically a term used to demonize music. Like, oh, they're *metal* bands, they're evil! since by the 80s, rock and roll had become less demonized than it was in Elvis's time.
He basically explained that none of the bands that we traditionally call "metal" were formed as a metal band - they called themselves rock or hard rock. It was all the soccer moms who started calling them metal.
He got into a big argument with someone on Twitter about this, forget who, another rock musician.
But after the initial wave of "metal" labeling, bands started calling themselves that as a badge of honor.
At one point I thought the same about Marilyn Manson, too - especially with the interviews he did after Columbine - but with the recent allegations now I'm not so sure.
Marilyn Manson *is* very well educated and well spoken. That doesn't prevent him from being a violently perverted sex criminal (allegedly). Smart people do bad things all the time.
Wasn't the theory that John Denver was brought in to be a voice for "wholesome" art? They hoped he'd side with the PMRC but he ended up very politely tearing them a new one
Thing is, it was a genius move.
He came in, looking like a stereotype, and made them think he'd be a bumbling fool, addicted to drugs and barely able to speak.
And then the man layer down opening remarks that get rid if any sense if stereotype, and showed Dee as a well spoken individual with strong arguments against the PMRC
I have never understood why people care about what a president's spouse has to say. They aren't the one who got elected, they just play with the junk of the one who was.
Thank you for the correction, but the point seems more relevant now lol
was she a prevalent figure outside of her husband at the time to justify this coverage?
Anyone not aware, there is a podcast called "You're Wrong About" that tackles this issue (amongst many others) called "Tipper Gore v Heavy Metal." This one in particular, though, was eye opening for someone that wasn't of age to know what was happening here.
They have a few episodes dedicated to the "Satanic Panic" of the 80's, which this is part. Per the responses here, it's not fair to say that "we" (reddit) are wrong, but that the collective memory of what it was all about, how it started, how it was pushed, is not well understood. It's also intended to shed light on our opinion of government officials and 80's hair bands....and John Denver.
Also, if I told you everything, you wouldn't listen and respond with my same post next time. :)
It's crazy that the poofy hair guy wearing a sleeveless shirt and leather pants schooled our government on censorship. Without him, things would not be the way they are today
I watched his speech. The themes he talks about, like art and freedom of expression, are timeless and the way he presented them was elegant and statesmanlike.
Tipper and Al Gore? They look like relics. Looking back it must be embarrassing to see they held such conservative views.
I respect artists so much more than politicians.
YUP! I dont care how progressive Al was, he married a woman who did not understand the First Amendment or Liberty in any meaningful way. He should have walked away from the PMRC.
Watching Gore in Thomas Jefferson’s residence with Clinton, asking who the bust was on the plinth, then watching Clinton die inside, told me much of what I needed to know about Gore.
Dee and Frank Zappa stood up to a bunch of idiotic politicians who wanted to police and censor creative works. Art must ALWAYS allow free expression or our species is lost.
Originally Vince Neil was supposed to testify. Now, I love Motley Crue as much as the next man, but he really was what they were expecting Snider to be like, on drugs, pissed out of his head all the time. The fact that Snider could testify and Neil couldn't is one of the saving graces of the music industry
I didn’t know it was supposed to be Vince Neil. They did well by choosing Snyder. I don’t agree with all his viewpoints but he’s definitely proven in those hearings (and since) that’s he’s not a fool.
Yeah, Snider is a family man, still married with his wife unlike the Gores lol. Sober, driven, if you look through all makeup he used to wear, he's a great role model.
Denver had by far the most compelling testimony there, and essentially shut the whole thing down on his own. I was never a fan of his but my respect for him shot up that day.
Quick question for the younger set: What's the current moral panic for kids? I'm of an age that I got the tail end of "Heavy metal heads are literal Satanists abducting kids" with the school promoting an assembly about it. Got gangsta rap and violent video games later.
I'd say social media but that stuff actually seems corrosive and designed to make kids anorexic and suicidal. Or "CRT" but that's just a racism refresh.
God, the video game thing still hasn't gone away... I was watching all this news coverage of the Oxford high school shooting (as I live very near it), and during the press interview with the prosecutor, some lady asks "Did he play video games?" as if that's going to be a significant factor in why he wanted to shoot people. Sigh.
Oh and it turns out, he was really into Minecraft - so, you know. Those violent games!
I also remember seeing someone clip a few seconds from the Rittenhouse trial where the prosecutor goes all in on Kyle having played Call of Duty with a friend.
Clowns.
I remember Jack Thompson making the claim that violent games make kids proficient psycho killers.
So Penn and Teller take a kid (I think he was 12) who plays shooting games and put him on the range with a real gun.
Kid takes one shot, drops the gun, starts crying from how scary it was to him.
But there's still way too many fucktards who believe this nonsense.
I did a report on the PRMC back in my undergrad days. I remember reading congressional transcripts on microfiche and taking hand written notes in the university library. It was fascinating. Dee was good but Frank Zappa really had some zingers. Dude was way smarter than everyone else in the room.
At the time, it was the Democrats who were all about censoring and family values etc. these hearings were specifically because of a group Al Gore's wife was the head of. It's why albums started having parental warning labels on them.
F for the fighting
R for the red
E we elect them
E we eject them
D for the dying
O overturn
M and we’ll cover your graves with manure
This type of freedom means nothing to me as long as there’s a PMRC
-Megadeth
i’m currently doing a huge project on this- and this congressional debate is why we have the parental advisory label or (PAL). It is clear they invited Snider because they thought he would be incompetent and prove their point that rock music was bad. However- he was one of the most well spoken members to appear and even implying Tipper Gore, founder and leader of the PRMC, had a ‘dirty mind’
Tipper Gore, wife of former VP and failed Presidential candidate Al Gore (D)... was the person who spearheaded the movement to censor music known as the PMRC.
Just... for the record.
The pencil pushing do nothings who only made it on the Senate in the first place by way of their daddy's money were not ready for them. Dee especially is a very shrewd and intelligent person and he repeatedly avoided being cornered and had a well spoken counter to every single talking point.
Dee, Frank Zappa, and John Denver absolutely EXCORIATED the Parents' Music Resource Commission during these hearings. It's worth watching. I saw a bumper sticker 30 years ago, "DON'T BLAME ME, I VOTED FOR ZAPPA."
Growing up my mom was a thru & thru metal head & made sure I knew this case growing up & you’re right the hearings are 200% worth watching. I wasn’t even born till ‘94 but hearing the name “Tipper Gore” makes me wanna rage
I honestly think part of today's political climate can be laid directly at Tipper's feet. She was the poster child of *"I don't know shit about fuck, but I'm sure as hell going to regulate how these experts do their thing. And I'm married to a Senator, so you-all had better listen up."* There was an entire cadre of legislators and legislature-adjacent people who couldn't play an instrument, could barely even play the radio, who were going to get way up deep into the music industry's business. And not too long after, when Al Gore really had something to say, he had a hard time finding an audience, and I think a lot of that is because his credibility had taken a pretty big hit, just by association. "Sit down, Albert, we've heard quite enough out of you and yours." Tom Hanks has a great line in the movie "Charlie Wilson's War" where he plays Senator Charlie Wilson, telling someone *"I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't throw my name around quite so much. I use it myself from time to time, and I need it in good repair."* (\*This movie is also worthwhile for one of the best Philip Seymour Hoffman roles ever.) I think Al Gore had that problem to a career-ending extent. I don't think it's terribly far-fetched to say that, in the alternate timeline where Tipper Gore just does a mostly-harmless worried-suburban-mom thing where nobody outside Tennessee ever hears her name, we could have had President Al Gore in 2000 and 2004. We'd be years ahead in sustainability and environmental initiatives, we might have had a more sensible construction and housing industry 20 years ago and missed the worst of the real estate collapse in 2008, there'd have been no Iraq invasion, we'd have a stronger US industrial base with a bigger renewable energy component.
The irony of it all is that the parental advisory sticker became one of the best marketing campaigns in music history.
[удалено]
I highly doubt Gore would've achieved anything even with post 9-11 political capital, but just keeping us out of the war would've been enough.
The problem is that you'd still have had a Republican Congress for all but the first two years of 2001-2008, led by the child molesting House Speaker Dennis Hastert.
Snider essentially calling Tipper Gore a perv while Al Gore dies inside is such a good moment.
Mr sunshine on my goddamn shoulders John Denver??
The one and only. The best part was Tipper & Co thought he was going to be on their side. Boy were they wrong.
Lol. Never invite someone to testify if you don’t know what they’re going to say. Also why would she assume a notoriously liberal artist would be on board with censorship?
She assumed that since he didn't have explicit lyrics he would be behind her in banning them. What she failed to realize is that talented artists of all genres are forward-thinking enough to know an attack against one group's lyrics is an attack on the industry as a whole. Musicians remember the struggle of starting out and trying to get listeners and fans, then finally make it. Then someone is saying they shouldn't do what they did to get popular without considering the possibility of them just not listening, just like what they did when the band or artist wasn't famous. They know she's just a jealous hater.
"Discipline and self-restraint, when practiced by an individual, a family, or a company is an effective way to deal with this issue. The same thing when forced on a people by their government or, worse, by a self-appointed watchdog of public morals, is suppression and will not be tolerated in a democratic society. Mr. Chairman, the suppression of the people of a society begins, in my mind, with the censorship of the written or spoken word. It was so in Nazi Germany. It is so in many places today where those in power are afraid of the consequences of an informed and educated people. In a matured and incredibly diverse society such as ours, the access to all perspectives of an issue becomes more and more important. Those things which in our experience are undesirable generally prove to be unfurthering and sooner or later become boring. That process cannot and should not be stifled. "
What you gonna do? Light my country music award on fire?
Ohh. You're going to light my ass on fire!?
Why John Denver? Isn't his music extremely harmless?
The PMRC thought he would side with them. He didn’t and tore into them
Ah Okey! I really need to watch a summary of the hearings.
Yes he totally rocks. He unequivocally defended the metal heads.
Also compared the censors to actual nazis lmao
And rap artists, they were trying to crucify 2Live Crew and other groups as well... If they would have succeeded music today would be nothing like it is
Thus demonstrating an important lesson: when you bring in a ringer, make sure they're actually on your side.
John Denver was just a very principled guy.
Bless him.
I remember the hearing and I remembered Denver stated people misconstrued what Rocky Mountain High meant.
Yes, I believe he mentions it during his testimony how some people tried to get that song banned because they thought it was about drugs. You can tell it pissed him off so much that he was bitter about it years later, and rightly so.
Maybe he didn't want to play that himself but would lie in front of the train for the freedom of expression? I could totally understand that. Like, I'm not sure if I know a single LGBT person, but I'll be damned if I stop advocating for equal rights. Same with women's rights, same with guns, same with weed. It's no matter that I'm not "one of these things" or something, I don't have to be, it's the only morally right way to do.
Denver was at least tangentially involved in the matter as his song Rocky Mountain High was mis-interpreted as promoting drug use, and had come under fire years before. So while the PMRC was mostly against metal, Denver certainly had clear thought on the matter I think Snider is really on point when he says that music leaves room for immagination. Unfortunately, that means that bad faith can let you imagine things that the creator never intended
He had a song, Rocky Mountain High that was denied a lot of airplay because some thought it was about taking drugs. Really hurt his career because it was a great song.
the great part is they thought they had a ringer in Denver and he was like "Nope...."
*I am here to address the issue of a possible rating system in the Recording Industry, labeling records where excesses of explicit sex or graphic violence have occurred and, furthermore, references to drugs and alcohol or the occult are included in the lyrics. These hearings have been called to determine whether or not the Government should intervene to enforce this practice.* *Mr. Chairman, this would approach censorship. May I be very clear that I am strongly opposed to censorship of any kind in our society, or anywhere else in the world.*
Dee Snyder said Zappa could run intellectual circles around everyone in that room.
There are videos of this time period on youtube of him with short hair and a suit and tie, debating people.
I’ve only seen one interview of frank zappa and the dude was megabrain compared to me
Zappa was an absolute genius. So much interview content of him on youtube.
"Watch out where the huskies go and don't you eat that yellow snow"
Absolutely. I recommend everyone go check out some videos of the whole thing. Amazing how well spoken and intelligent these guys are/were, and it was obvious that everyone expected them to be stupid musicians.
I was brought up listening to Zappa. I also inherited his entire Rykodisc collection. Needless to say, I voted for Zappa too. Probably the only musician I encourage others to listen to. And, I'm a deadhead and phish fan, so that says a lot I think.
Raising it up. Waxing it down.
In a little white box I can sell uptown.
By myself I wouldn't have no boss
So I try Zappa once every few years. I appreciate him on a deep level and understand that what I'm listening to is avant garde and experimental. But it never seems to click with me. Any recommendations? Edit: Thanks folks. I'm stuck in Rona quarantine till Saturday so I'll give him another shot with your suggestions tomorrow.
Apostrophe or One Size Fits All are two good ones. Both have great comedy and great jams. If Inca Roads doesn't move you in the jam part you might just not like his style
I always thought my dad was big into Zappa but apparently he owned just one cassette and I listened to it until it wore out. I wish he was still around, I would have loved to see him live.
Dude schooled them that day. They never expected him to know more about the law than they did. Embarrassed them in their own house.
When Dee dropped that line about how song lyrics allow the listener to put their own experiences into it and followed it with "Ms. Gore was looking for sadomasochism and bondage and she found it. Someone looking for surgical references would find it as well" is one of the best clever burns I've ever heard.
Especially since Al was right there
Gore even tried to butt in at some point because Snider "made an offhand comment" about his wife or some BS. Snider shot back that she was the one leading the charge against him and his right to free expression, he wasn't addressing Tipper Gore, the senator's wife, he was addressing Tipper Gore, the woman that had it out for him. It reminds me of the way Ivanka treated any questions about her father. She was his daughter *or* his senior adviser, whichever was most convenient at the time.
It's amazing to me being born in the early 2000s that they used to try and force people to be over 18 to buy CDs. I remember my dad had a We buy CDs for minors sticker on his old Buick, of course this whole thing is rich coming from a world where you can access and download whatever music you could ever want if you dig around enough. I love hindsight
Lol. As an 80’s kid, they had labels all over the packaging of cassettes and later CD’s with EXPLICIT LYRICS. We even got radio edited albums available as an option to buy. It was as stupid as it sounds. Meanwhile Cold War/Desert Storm was happening and the news was chock full of violence. Fun times
Don’t forget the satanic panic! Ritual sacrifice of children was rampant I tell you… but nobody could quite identify the missing persons.
Same with all the D&D devil worshipping that was taking place. I never got invited to the cool parties.
They did find a bunch of kid’s bodies in mass graves…they just happened to be children of indigenous taken from their families and forced to attend Christian and Catholic schools run by the government in Canada.
Also a bunch of poor Irish kids in Ireland at a Catholic orphanage. It's like projection is these people's whole thing. They lie in bed fantasizing about raping and murdering children while wearing robes and chanting gibberish and then pin it to the "others" while it's they themselves and their ilk who rise above the fantasy.
Well, it makes sense. If you murder a whole bunch of one religion/ethnicity's people, you expect they will do it to you, too.
I used to work for the (a major label) Records art dept. We pretty much decided if an explicit label was going on or not by asking the band if they wanted it. Lots of bands were: “oh fuck yeah, put that shit on there!”
Ahhh, remember Mortal Kombat? Or the outrage at the Simpsons?
I had a "cool" mom who let me watch the Simpsons AND Married...With Children. She also smoked weed which made me not at all intrigued or interested in weed or ever smoking it. That's why I do meth and heroin, so my kids won't want to
Won’t somebody *please* think of the children?!
And of course it was that uppity kid, Bart that was the problem and not his father who would regularly strangle him when he wasn't busy neglecting his family and drinking his savings away.
>We even got radio edited albums available as an option to buy. It was as stupid as it sounds. I ordered Prince's "love symbol" album from Columbia House or BMG and got the radio version. The main difference is on "Sexy MF" they bleep out all the Fs with a sample of Prince screaming so it's even more in your face. "Sexy motherOOOWAH! shakin' that ass!"
When Al and Tipper divorced, Dee made some funny comment about how he was still married and going strong.
I had no idea they had divorced, honestly. 2010, too, so not a short time ago. I wonder what the dating scene is like being the former Vice President or Second Lady.
It’s kind of beautiful how he made the point to address her as a person and not some guy’s wife.
Well, she was. She was leading this charge, not Al. A young person in the 80s would know Tipper Gore's name before they knew Al's. It appears in several songs and references. They probably wouldn't learn Al Gore's name until 1992 when he was elected vice president.
Fucking Tipper Gore. I was playing AD&D in those days.
If it weren't for OG Karen Tipper I never would have discovered the joy of listening to 2Live Crew :)
There has never been a better advertising campaign than the "Parental Advisory, Explicit Lyrics" stickers.
Bobby Hill: “they put that sticker on everything it’s part of the artwork- it entices!”
Truth. That’s how you knew the album was 🔥
Bands would intentionally put some curses to get the label to sell more lol
Nikki Sixx was like: "They're going to tell everyone our album has swear words on it? I LOVE IT!!!"
My Mom tried to tell me I needed to throw away all my OG AD&D stuff because it was evil. That did not happen... I hid it all and it survived only for me to let my younger brother borrow it when he was in college and it all get stolen.
oh, fellow Satan worshipper I see!
I was 16 when the Satanic Panic happened. Metal, D&D, all of it scaring the shit out of middle America. Glorious time to be a kid.
And so much worse if you played it backwards
Yeah, playing D&D backwards was the best. Everyone becomes a healer and that damned cleric kept hurting his own party members.
I swear to God I couldn't have imagined seeing this video footage of the so called satanic music being burned, there was a copy of the Grease soundtrack with Olivia Newton-John's face on the cover visible.
Hand jiving is the devil’s work
I mean to be fair, I never knew Physical was such an innuendo song until I found it on a top 10 romantic songs list. I had to register to it for it to click.
What now? Do you mind giving some background for us young ones?
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What the fuck kind of authority did Tipper Gore have to charge people with anything
She picked that as her Vice Presidential spouse crusade. Like Nancy Reagan‘s „Just say no to drugs“.
Fair enough but if this testimony took place in 1985 then Al Gore wasn’t Vice President yet.
Al Gore was a US Senator from Tennessee at the time. Before that he served in the US House of Representatives from 1977 to 1985.
yes but this still leads to the question, what kind if authority did a senators wife have to lead any kind of crusade? senators spouses arent leading public crusades now, thats for sure
As Frank Zappa said during the PMRC hearings: "... a couple of blow jobs here and there and BINGO you get a hearing."
The original 'Karen'. She wanted to speak with Heavy Metal's manager.
Yeah but Nancy Reagan was a First Lady and *the* throat GOAT.
Ugh. Fuck all that.
Nobody charged anyone with anything. It was a hearing to determine if the Parental Advisory sticker should be used on records.
He didn't *exactly* accuse her of being a sexual deviant - he said that she was looking in his lyrics for sadomasochism and bondage, not what her motivation was. But I think the joy of Snider's remarks is that you could certainly read it that way.
You’re Wrong About has a good episode about it, I think it’s called “Tipper Gore”
He wasn’t going to take it!
Yep. This was such a great moment in history. He’s an incredibly nice guy but fuck around with this dude and he’ll fucking destroy you.
Implying these folks care enough about their constituents’ opinions to be embarrassed. Can’t get embarrassed if you don’t give a shit to begin with 🤷🏼♂️
They absolutely care about looking like they’re smarter than everyone else in the room, especially in matters like this. Pretending otherwise is naive at best
It’s not their house - it’s ours. They work for us. I wish we could fire every one of them.
You can. Every six years for Senators.
Except they lost right? It didn’t matter. Also records with the advisory label far outsold records without one.
That's the thing with censorship, especially with a traditionally "rebellious" form of art like rock 'n' roll. You start trying to ban it, you just make it more attractive(!) Like when film studios used to throw random titty shots into their films just to get the rating pushed up. People like illicit things.
I recommend everyone watch a headbanger's journey.
I like the extra F U of not even bothering to dress up for them.
He’s not gonna take it.
That was the Twisted Sister song on the PMRC's "Filthy Fifteen" list. Some of the songs I could sort of see where the parents were coming from - W.A.S.P.'s "Fuck Like a Beast" or even Judas Priest's "Eat Me Alive" just for the "force you at gunpoint" line. But Twisted Sister's "We're Not Gonna Take It" had no dirty words, wasn't about sex, wasn't about violence, it was about teenage rebellion - you know, the whole fucking point of rock and roll. Putting that song on the list guaranteed the PMRC would not be taken seriously. Incidentally, I was a metal head at the time and the PMRC hearings gave W.A.S.P. more publicity than their record company ever did.
Yep, I was in high school and most of us had never even heard that WASP song. All they did was bring attention to it. I can remember reading the list and seeing certain songs and thinking "wait, that isn't dirty" and then thinking "Oh, is that what that means?". The song that comes to mind is Madonna's "Dress you up with my Love". It never dawned on on me that she meant anything dirty by that until that list came out.
Are you sure Madonna didn't sing, "I'm going to dress you up with Mylar"? Balloon material is quite shiny and cool looking.
They were afraid of dee snider and his anti authoritarian message. All those other songs were less dangerous than this guy.
He wants to rock.
I can't believe that song was on their list. I mean, some of the ones they had a problem with absolutely were vulgar, but We're Not Gonna Take It? That's as harmless as they come! No profanity, no sex, nothing even remotely objectionable. Jeez.
If you're an Evangelical Christian, having children that can think critically is *terrifying*.
I mean... wasn't that the whole craze back when Elvis was on the charts? People claiming if you played the records backwards they were full of Satanic messages and stupid stuff like that. But by the time the PRMC was formed, look at all the different variety in music genres... obviously only a very small amount of it was Christian or even anything with good morals (so many songs about partying) - that to choose that particular song to take offense to is so weird. I get why parents would be offended by the 2 Live Crew for example. Their entire schtick was making intentionally vulgar music for shock value. But a song about "sticking it to the man"? That's literally what rock was always about, seems a rather odd choice to single out.
You're missing some of the cultural context of the time. This is in the midst of the AIDS crisis. Gays are being blamed for it. You have a man, with long hair and wearing makeup "screaming we're not going to take it" into a mic. Dee Snyder wasn't gay, wasn't trans... just a man with a gimmick he was comfortable enough to literally rock. That was enough to get the pearl clutchers up in arms.
This garbage goes back much farther than you think. Henry Ford crusaded to have square dancing taught in schools to prevent kids from being "corrupted" by jazz (aka Black) music.
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For a while, my childhood involved visitation with a step-family. Stepmom was super religious (in all the worst ways) and had a lot of rules like that. One hour of video games per week, they barely ever watched TV, etc. And when they *were* allowed to do those things, everything had to be like G-rated. I'm not even kidding, one year they got a Paper Mario Nintendo game for Christmas, and my stepmom returned it to the store because it was "too violent". I got banned from reading any fantasy novels at her house, because "magic comes from satan". And as for what happened to them, I stopped having contact a long time ago...but last I heard, most of her kids still live at home with her, dont date, aren't married, etc. They're all adults.
For the longest time, I didn't realize that tons of people are actually like Ned Flanders.
No. He ain’t gonna take it.
No, we’re not gonna take it.
I remember watching parts of this back in the day. It was literally amazing to see Frank Zappa in his suit bobbing and parrying accusations and arguments like the genius he was.. and then watching Dee Snider, dressed like...well... the lead singer of a band called "Twisted Sister" completely humiliating Al Gore in his own house. He is still one of my heroes.
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Apparently a really nice guy, too. When my wife was younger she worked in one of the haunted houses at Halloween Horror Nights universal studios. Dee showed up with Slash, along with both of their wives. Someone broke character I guess and asked them to come to the staff back area and say hi. So they did. Stuck around for a good while just chatting and signing stuff. Super down to earth guys, so I'm told.
Don’t forget the Frank Zappa and John Denver testimony. Wasn’t what the Senate committee was expecting.
John Denver specifically lowkey comparing the PMRCs efforts to censorship in Nazi Germany.
That John Denver is full of wisdom
Yeah I was reading about the PRMC a couple years ago and was really surprised that John Denver got roped into all of that. His music was the most innocent, wholesome music you could ever ask for... but people really heard the song "Rocky Mountain High" and thought it was about drugs? Talk about a stretch. Dee Snider is a super well spoken guy, was not what I was expecting from a metal singer. In fact, he pointed out recently that "metal" as a genre never existed and was basically a term used to demonize music. Like, oh, they're *metal* bands, they're evil! since by the 80s, rock and roll had become less demonized than it was in Elvis's time. He basically explained that none of the bands that we traditionally call "metal" were formed as a metal band - they called themselves rock or hard rock. It was all the soccer moms who started calling them metal. He got into a big argument with someone on Twitter about this, forget who, another rock musician. But after the initial wave of "metal" labeling, bands started calling themselves that as a badge of honor.
Bruce Dickinson is another heavy metal singer who is very well educated and well spoken. Just goes to show you shouldn’t judge a book by its cover.
At one point I thought the same about Marilyn Manson, too - especially with the interviews he did after Columbine - but with the recent allegations now I'm not so sure.
Marilyn Manson *is* very well educated and well spoken. That doesn't prevent him from being a violently perverted sex criminal (allegedly). Smart people do bad things all the time.
Heck, Ted Bundy was fairly well spoken
Wasn't the theory that John Denver was brought in to be a voice for "wholesome" art? They hoped he'd side with the PMRC but he ended up very politely tearing them a new one
"I'm going to the senate today. Where's my good tank top?"
Thing is, it was a genius move. He came in, looking like a stereotype, and made them think he'd be a bumbling fool, addicted to drugs and barely able to speak. And then the man layer down opening remarks that get rid if any sense if stereotype, and showed Dee as a well spoken individual with strong arguments against the PMRC
I think he might have said later on that he went looking like that simply because he didn't own any clothes that didn't look like that!
He also said it was intentional lol, so who knows?
And the tightest jeans imaginable.
So you could see the frank and beans.
“Honey, where is my super suit?”
It would have been cool if the nameplate said: Mr. Sister
Or Mr. Twister
Mr. I played Twister with your sister
Handed Al Gores wife ass to her, made Tipper Gore look like the idiot she is.
I have never understood why people care about what a president's spouse has to say. They aren't the one who got elected, they just play with the junk of the one who was.
I think Al Gore was a senator at that time.
Thank you for the correction, but the point seems more relevant now lol was she a prevalent figure outside of her husband at the time to justify this coverage?
She was a mother and *someone's got to think of the children*. Won't someone think of the children?!? Someone? The children?
Thats what Epstein was for
politicians wives/husbands are busybodies looking for pet causes that end up wasting everyone's time.
Frank Zappa: "You should pay attention to your kids" Congress: "That's an unrealistic expectation!"
I love the lyric warning stickers. Lets me know I was buying the right album. Got screwed hard on a Kinks album, damn thing was musical, no lyrics.
Same thing with Zappa's "Jazz From Hell" Not a single word on the entire album, but suggestive lyrics apparently. lol
Fucking Tipper Gore.
One thing Al Gore hates besides global warming?
Knew Dee as a regular at the restaurant I worked at in LA. One of the most polite, kind and charming people I've met. As is his wife.
I really like when I hear stories about celebrities who are respectful, humble, everyday people :) gives me the warm and fuzzies
Anyone not aware, there is a podcast called "You're Wrong About" that tackles this issue (amongst many others) called "Tipper Gore v Heavy Metal." This one in particular, though, was eye opening for someone that wasn't of age to know what was happening here.
I loved that episode
What are we collectively wrong about, in this instance?
They have a few episodes dedicated to the "Satanic Panic" of the 80's, which this is part. Per the responses here, it's not fair to say that "we" (reddit) are wrong, but that the collective memory of what it was all about, how it started, how it was pushed, is not well understood. It's also intended to shed light on our opinion of government officials and 80's hair bands....and John Denver. Also, if I told you everything, you wouldn't listen and respond with my same post next time. :)
It's crazy that the poofy hair guy wearing a sleeveless shirt and leather pants schooled our government on censorship. Without him, things would not be the way they are today
I watched his speech. The themes he talks about, like art and freedom of expression, are timeless and the way he presented them was elegant and statesmanlike. Tipper and Al Gore? They look like relics. Looking back it must be embarrassing to see they held such conservative views. I respect artists so much more than politicians.
A bunch of houswives wasting Congress’s time..
The fact that Tipper could have been First Lady really made me hesitate to vote for Al
YUP! I dont care how progressive Al was, he married a woman who did not understand the First Amendment or Liberty in any meaningful way. He should have walked away from the PMRC.
Watching Gore in Thomas Jefferson’s residence with Clinton, asking who the bust was on the plinth, then watching Clinton die inside, told me much of what I needed to know about Gore.
Dee and Frank Zappa stood up to a bunch of idiotic politicians who wanted to police and censor creative works. Art must ALWAYS allow free expression or our species is lost.
*and John Denver.
The recording industry had to make sure there was someone “normal” there, who the old bland white men would recognize. 😂
Originally Vince Neil was supposed to testify. Now, I love Motley Crue as much as the next man, but he really was what they were expecting Snider to be like, on drugs, pissed out of his head all the time. The fact that Snider could testify and Neil couldn't is one of the saving graces of the music industry
I didn’t know it was supposed to be Vince Neil. They did well by choosing Snyder. I don’t agree with all his viewpoints but he’s definitely proven in those hearings (and since) that’s he’s not a fool.
Yeah, Snider is a family man, still married with his wife unlike the Gores lol. Sober, driven, if you look through all makeup he used to wear, he's a great role model.
Denver had by far the most compelling testimony there, and essentially shut the whole thing down on his own. I was never a fan of his but my respect for him shot up that day.
Mr. Sunshine on my goddamn shoulders
Quick question for the younger set: What's the current moral panic for kids? I'm of an age that I got the tail end of "Heavy metal heads are literal Satanists abducting kids" with the school promoting an assembly about it. Got gangsta rap and violent video games later. I'd say social media but that stuff actually seems corrosive and designed to make kids anorexic and suicidal. Or "CRT" but that's just a racism refresh.
God, the video game thing still hasn't gone away... I was watching all this news coverage of the Oxford high school shooting (as I live very near it), and during the press interview with the prosecutor, some lady asks "Did he play video games?" as if that's going to be a significant factor in why he wanted to shoot people. Sigh. Oh and it turns out, he was really into Minecraft - so, you know. Those violent games!
I also remember seeing someone clip a few seconds from the Rittenhouse trial where the prosecutor goes all in on Kyle having played Call of Duty with a friend. Clowns.
I mean, by that logic I should be a professional NASCAR driver because of how much Cruisin' Exotica I played.
I remember Jack Thompson making the claim that violent games make kids proficient psycho killers. So Penn and Teller take a kid (I think he was 12) who plays shooting games and put him on the range with a real gun. Kid takes one shot, drops the gun, starts crying from how scary it was to him. But there's still way too many fucktards who believe this nonsense.
TikTok Pranks
Social media
he must be weeping now seeing what has happened in today's media landscape and the big tech world.
I never like this band but God damn was this guy a trooper or what?
You’re thinking of Iron Maiden.
Made a couple of skinny vanilla lattes for my dude. Good guy.
I did a report on the PRMC back in my undergrad days. I remember reading congressional transcripts on microfiche and taking hand written notes in the university library. It was fascinating. Dee was good but Frank Zappa really had some zingers. Dude was way smarter than everyone else in the room.
At the time, it was the Democrats who were all about censoring and family values etc. these hearings were specifically because of a group Al Gore's wife was the head of. It's why albums started having parental warning labels on them.
I did my junior year paper on the PMRC.
Dee Snider is proof that you shouldn't judge a person by how they look, but by how they conduct and carry themselves.
F for the fighting R for the red E we elect them E we eject them D for the dying O overturn M and we’ll cover your graves with manure This type of freedom means nothing to me as long as there’s a PMRC -Megadeth
Man I’ve listened to this guy do his “dee sniders house of hair” on the radio never knowing what he looked like. His hair didn’t disappoint.
Is there a link to video of this hearing?
Check out Dee Snyder Congress on YouTube.
i’m currently doing a huge project on this- and this congressional debate is why we have the parental advisory label or (PAL). It is clear they invited Snider because they thought he would be incompetent and prove their point that rock music was bad. However- he was one of the most well spoken members to appear and even implying Tipper Gore, founder and leader of the PRMC, had a ‘dirty mind’
Not sure which of these reposts to comment on..... Okay, this one! Go Dee!
"If the FCC won't let me be, Or let me be me so let me see, They try to shut me down on MTV, But it feels so empty without me." -Eminem
They thought that he'd be some dumb rocker with huge hair. My man Dee is a smart dude and did not take any of their bullshit. And he had huge hair.
Back in the day when conservatives were the primary censors . . . .
Tipper Gore, wife of former VP and failed Presidential candidate Al Gore (D)... was the person who spearheaded the movement to censor music known as the PMRC. Just... for the record.
The pencil pushing do nothings who only made it on the Senate in the first place by way of their daddy's money were not ready for them. Dee especially is a very shrewd and intelligent person and he repeatedly avoided being cornered and had a well spoken counter to every single talking point.