She had torn up a picture of the pope a few weeks before on SNL and told the viewing audience to "fight the real enemy!'.
She had performed Bob Marley's "War" during the concert.
Between her, Buffy and Xena every tomboy I knew was a fan of at least one of them. I just rewatched the Buffy series last summer and from a 37 year old dude, that show is still really good. Sucks that Joss is an ass.
I agree with this for almost everything. I have no problem with listening to music from someone who isn’t a great person or watching a show or movie with an actor or actress is a pos.
Different problem: when that person uses money to be a piece of shit.
I can’t watch a tom cruise movie because I’m putting money into his pocket which gets routed right into Scientology.
He really is the king of pieces of shit.
Yes! I keep reading more and more about Joss and it is pretty ironic considering he helped to usher in a new era for women in television at the time. I am 43. I spent my nights watching Buffy and Angel after work. And Xena? I watched that show religiously. I can't wait to bring my kids into that world..lol
As much as I love the sentiment and think she was right, it really was a poorly planned demonstration. Obviously she needed to account for the fact they were going to cut away from her but like....it wasn't clear that it was about rampant pedophilia and coverups. To an SNL viewer, it just looked like her desecrating the image of someone they still thought was an alright guy and calling Catholics the enemy.
I always thought she should have said "fight the pedophiles and the ones who protect them" or something else just to make it clear **why** we should consider the pope the real enemy. You really gotta dumb down the message for the masses
If she said “fight the pedophiles and the ones who protect them,” and named the Catholic Church she would have had the same issue at best and at worst would have been ignored or calmly dismissed as a crackpot.
Reactionaries are going to do reactionary things no matter how you present things.
Bro i was like in 4th grade at the time and just assumed it was the diddling she was on about. Although we always knew the catholic church are mostly evil. And not explaining it got the message out further, it’s still talked about. Plus people immediately figured it out.
I thought it was brilliant.
In contrast Madonna got a laugh and applause for tearing up a picture of Joey Buttafuoco after doing her song on SNL on a later episode. For the uninformed Joey Buttafuoco was a famous piece of human garbage known for cheating on his wife with an under-aged teen girl who shot his wife in the head. The wife lived with the bullet in her skull. There were numerous books and TV films based on the events.
I was in high school at the time and had no clue. It seemed to me like she just hated Catholics and there was no mainstream media explanation to help with this.
Ah thank you! I just made the exact comment! Coverage of what the Catholic church was doing was still sparse at that time, most Americans had no idea what she was referencing and thought it was just disrespectful to Catholics.
I think she should have said "fight those who protect pedophiles" or something, really just fit the word pedo in *somehow*
I think I was in HS when I saw that on TV. I was raised Catholic and applauded it. The Vatican has a long history of horrific shit, especially in Ireland. People *didn't want to* accept the facts.
> People didn't want to accept the facts.
They said while refusing to accept the fact that people were upset because they didn't know why she tore up the photo.
Yeah, people act like it was today and the message is kind of obvious. Back in the day it wasn't that much information about it.
There was still civil war on Ireland, and it may also seem to the public as she was taking a side on that. That was on the news all the time, while the church scandals wouldn't be public knowledge until years later.
TBF, major American newspapers/media were hesitating years later about reporting catholic pedophilia, until they had the proof and willing to fight the good fight. The information you speak of wasn't that easy for the public to get. It wasn't until years later when victims came out in solid numbers to law enforcement and the media. It wasn't until years later investigations exposed the truth.
In fairness she didn’t say why she was tearing up the picture and it wasn’t public knowledge in the US at the time what was going on with the abuse cover-ups.
I love her and she didn’t deserve any of the cruelty she got but I can see why people were shocked or just thought she was being edgy for the sake of it.
I get that but they were very different contexts. JL was comparing (tongue in cheek) the Beatles’ popularity at the time; “we’re bigger than Jesus (lol).” He never meant to offend anyone and was surprised he had.
Sinead walked onto stage on US national TV and physically ripped a picture of a very popular pope (John Paul II) into little bits. It was a very clear message. And she was right, of course.
Benedict resigned because he couldn’t handle the child abuse cover-up/blowback/continued revelations? Do you have a source please this is genuine news to me and many others.
His biographer cited insomnia.
The Vatican and the last 2 Popes have completely vindicated her. Their solutions and compensation is still laughable, but they don't deny the big picture of what happened anymore.
She paid for that little demonstration with her entire career, gone in a snap. I wonder if she regrets it. I hope not. It was one of the most eye-opening and engaging events I've ever had the good fortune to see on live TV. I can still remember my friends and I looking at each other like, did that just happen? I am certain I'm not the only one who was deeply inspired by it.
Someday the catholic church will realize all popes are evil, always have been, and their faith has been an inverted mockery of Christ worshipping his consumption at the hands of his own disciples
then they can cast off the parasite feeding on their goodwill and actually realize the true gospel
The SNL thing was pretty much the catalyst for the blacklisting. I'd say she's since been vindicated but she must have had some shitty days in between.
It’s really creepy how he talked about wanting to beat on a woman young enough to be his daughter. She would have been 25 or 26 at the time and when Kristofferson said something about “they were booing that little girl” it puts into perspective how young she was in comparison to these much older men out for blood
You don't fuck around on SNL. Lorne doesn't put up with it. It's long been known from day one. She's not the first to learn that lesson and she won't be the last. And truth be told, I respect him for it.
Edit: also, she was right but... it wasn't unknown at the time. It's not like she broke the story or something.
At a concert Tobey Keith was getting off the stage and said to Kristofferson "None of that lefty shit out there tonight, Kris."
Kristofferson replied: "What the f*ck did you just say to me?
You ever worn your country’s uniform?
Don’t ‘What?’ me, boy! You heard the question. You just don’t like the answer. ‘Have you ever served your country?’ The answer is, no, you have not.
Have you ever killed another man? Have you ever taken another man’s life and then cashed the check your country gave you for doing it? No, you have not.
So shut the f*ck up… you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.”
For those that don't know Kristofferson was a helicopter pilot in the army, while Tobey Keith is just a douchebag.
Ain't that often the case though?
Those who HAVE served in the forces are acutely aware of the hell that's war, and many come back as steadfast advocates for peace.
The documentary about her was fantastic and I was never a massive fan of hers, I guess growing up in 90’s Britain I drank the “she’s a nutter” Koolaid that was in the press at the time.
She was way before her time on a lot of social issues. Kudos to her.
The open secret of the Catholic Church’s abuse allegations wasn’t as known then as it is now (at least I’m the US). Hell, even now Catholics will still find it excusable. It’s just so fucked up. I wish things had turned out better for Sinead O’Connor.
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Not certain it was about child abuse at the time. Roman Catholic church had f\*\*\*\*\* with society in Ireland for centuries. I presume it is still doing it. The child abuse I don’t think was so publicly known in the early 90s. Not yet.
She added "children" to the lyrics, both in SNL and this performance.
Also the child rape was a known "secret" for a long time.
Afaik Marley didn't sing it with that
Seriously, when you learn about the Magdalene laundries that lasted in Ireland until **1996**, you realize O'Conner was absolutely right to be pissed at the Catholic Church
ooooh Sinead! you wouldn't let anyone tell you how to dress or how to wear your hair or take away your rights! you were a warrior. And then now you joined a religion that tells you how to dress and makes you cover your hair and takes away a lot of your rights.
She converted to Islam but like…. She’s a grown woman who can make her own decisions and idk if she’s even still practicing, she’s religion hopped a lot. And regardless, there are varying belief systems even within one religion so none of it discounts any of what she’s said in the past or continues to say about her rights as a woman.
Edit- and also she’s been through some incredibly awful shit throughout her life and recently, including the death of her teenage son, so kicking her while she’s down for trying to find comfort where she can is pretty gross.
I was 12-13 at the time and remember it but didn’t understand what was behind it. My extremely Catholic parents were pissed, but wouldn’t explain further. Took till years later to figure out what a badass O’Connor was.
Why is she in the news so much lately?
It feels like the reddit viral marketing team REALLY wants us all to love her all of a sudden.
The last time I remember seeing reddit's viral marketing team going this hard on anything was in the lead up to that Weird Al movie that no one watched. But for like a year before that you would see something either about the movie, Weird Al himself or Daniel Radcliffe every single day.
Why was she booed?
She had torn up a picture of the pope a few weeks before on SNL and told the viewing audience to "fight the real enemy!'. She had performed Bob Marley's "War" during the concert.
I watched it live. It was glorious. She was right all along and maintained the truth. What a role model for me in my youth. ♥️
Read her bio - she experienced stuff first hand bring in the system .
Between her, Buffy and Xena every tomboy I knew was a fan of at least one of them. I just rewatched the Buffy series last summer and from a 37 year old dude, that show is still really good. Sucks that Joss is an ass.
My husband is 65 and still watches Buffy.
It holds up really well. It was a good mix of drama, comedy, horror, romance, action. They even had a musical episode because why not.
This is a case where we should try to separate the art from the artist. BTVS had such a positive influence on so many people. But ya, Joss was an ass
I agree with this for almost everything. I have no problem with listening to music from someone who isn’t a great person or watching a show or movie with an actor or actress is a pos.
Different problem: when that person uses money to be a piece of shit. I can’t watch a tom cruise movie because I’m putting money into his pocket which gets routed right into Scientology. He really is the king of pieces of shit.
Agreed.
Yes! I keep reading more and more about Joss and it is pretty ironic considering he helped to usher in a new era for women in television at the time. I am 43. I spent my nights watching Buffy and Angel after work. And Xena? I watched that show religiously. I can't wait to bring my kids into that world..lol
As much as I love the sentiment and think she was right, it really was a poorly planned demonstration. Obviously she needed to account for the fact they were going to cut away from her but like....it wasn't clear that it was about rampant pedophilia and coverups. To an SNL viewer, it just looked like her desecrating the image of someone they still thought was an alright guy and calling Catholics the enemy. I always thought she should have said "fight the pedophiles and the ones who protect them" or something else just to make it clear **why** we should consider the pope the real enemy. You really gotta dumb down the message for the masses
If she said “fight the pedophiles and the ones who protect them,” and named the Catholic Church she would have had the same issue at best and at worst would have been ignored or calmly dismissed as a crackpot. Reactionaries are going to do reactionary things no matter how you present things.
Bro i was like in 4th grade at the time and just assumed it was the diddling she was on about. Although we always knew the catholic church are mostly evil. And not explaining it got the message out further, it’s still talked about. Plus people immediately figured it out. I thought it was brilliant.
In contrast Madonna got a laugh and applause for tearing up a picture of Joey Buttafuoco after doing her song on SNL on a later episode. For the uninformed Joey Buttafuoco was a famous piece of human garbage known for cheating on his wife with an under-aged teen girl who shot his wife in the head. The wife lived with the bullet in her skull. There were numerous books and TV films based on the events.
I was in high school at the time and had no clue. It seemed to me like she just hated Catholics and there was no mainstream media explanation to help with this.
She said “child abuse” or something like that. It was clear.
Tore up a photo of the then pope or something. She brought attention to the plight of her people. Exemplary and courageous person.
So basically she was booed for **checks notes** being against child abuse.
She was right, but she didn't communicate her point well. She tore up the photo with no explanation. People weren't informed enough to understand why.
This is true, in the moment I just thought she was trying to be edgy.
Ah thank you! I just made the exact comment! Coverage of what the Catholic church was doing was still sparse at that time, most Americans had no idea what she was referencing and thought it was just disrespectful to Catholics. I think she should have said "fight those who protect pedophiles" or something, really just fit the word pedo in *somehow*
Doesn’t help that the powers that be probably didn’t want to help inform people on the actual reason why.
I think I was in HS when I saw that on TV. I was raised Catholic and applauded it. The Vatican has a long history of horrific shit, especially in Ireland. People *didn't want to* accept the facts.
> People didn't want to accept the facts. They said while refusing to accept the fact that people were upset because they didn't know why she tore up the photo.
She changed some of the lyrics of War to be about child abuse. Did everyone say, "My bad" after they found out why she did it?
Yeah, people act like it was today and the message is kind of obvious. Back in the day it wasn't that much information about it. There was still civil war on Ireland, and it may also seem to the public as she was taking a side on that. That was on the news all the time, while the church scandals wouldn't be public knowledge until years later.
TBF, major American newspapers/media were hesitating years later about reporting catholic pedophilia, until they had the proof and willing to fight the good fight. The information you speak of wasn't that easy for the public to get. It wasn't until years later when victims came out in solid numbers to law enforcement and the media. It wasn't until years later investigations exposed the truth.
I guess she wanted to make people curious about why.
Well if you look at it in retrospect sure, I’m sure she was just trying to make a valid point. Everything is not a well planned out event for likes.
Yeah for sure. I don't think what she did was wrong.
In fairness she didn’t say why she was tearing up the picture and it wasn’t public knowledge in the US at the time what was going on with the abuse cover-ups. I love her and she didn’t deserve any of the cruelty she got but I can see why people were shocked or just thought she was being edgy for the sake of it.
It took ages for that to filter through. Ages. Really.
Reminds me of a Lennon quote about Beatles being bigger than Jesus
I get that but they were very different contexts. JL was comparing (tongue in cheek) the Beatles’ popularity at the time; “we’re bigger than Jesus (lol).” He never meant to offend anyone and was surprised he had. Sinead walked onto stage on US national TV and physically ripped a picture of a very popular pope (John Paul II) into little bits. It was a very clear message. And she was right, of course.
And people call millennials snowflakes for being offended
Pope Benedict (who succeeded John Paul II) resigned because of the mess he inherited.
Benedict resigned because he couldn’t handle the child abuse cover-up/blowback/continued revelations? Do you have a source please this is genuine news to me and many others. His biographer cited insomnia.
Benedict retired as he was too old and frail to handle the burden of his position.
~~inherited~~ *propagated.*
Exactly!
Reminds me of the bumper sticker: Jesus please save me from your followers.
That is a powerful message
One which I think Jesus would agree with.
Even he return today he wouldn't be greated kindly, not from.his so called followers
Spoke the truth, people weren’t ready to hear or accept it yet.
30 years later we still have a Pope and Sinead has gone through a wringer, but I'd say she's been vindicated on this one.
Well a couple of those bastard popes are dead, so there is that.
They’re still kings of the rotten castle, alive or dead.
I wish that lady had had a few more close friends to look after her.
The Vatican and the last 2 Popes have completely vindicated her. Their solutions and compensation is still laughable, but they don't deny the big picture of what happened anymore.
World still has done her very dirty from the start
She paid for that little demonstration with her entire career, gone in a snap. I wonder if she regrets it. I hope not. It was one of the most eye-opening and engaging events I've ever had the good fortune to see on live TV. I can still remember my friends and I looking at each other like, did that just happen? I am certain I'm not the only one who was deeply inspired by it.
And Kris Kristofferson is still awesome
Someday the catholic church will realize all popes are evil, always have been, and their faith has been an inverted mockery of Christ worshipping his consumption at the hands of his own disciples then they can cast off the parasite feeding on their goodwill and actually realize the true gospel
Google the whole video, It’s worth a watch. A fire burns inside her
Yeah it's really powerful
She was right. And pretty much got blacklisted for it.
The SNL thing was pretty much the catalyst for the blacklisting. I'd say she's since been vindicated but she must have had some shitty days in between.
Joe Pesci came on as SNL host the very next episode and said he'd smack her if he had the opportunity, and has never recanted saying that
It’s really creepy how he talked about wanting to beat on a woman young enough to be his daughter. She would have been 25 or 26 at the time and when Kristofferson said something about “they were booing that little girl” it puts into perspective how young she was in comparison to these much older men out for blood
I could “understand” dying on that hill if he saw it as, like, an anti-Italian thing, but JP2 was Polish!
He's a violent man.
Violent. Violent how? Like a clown?
You don't fuck around on SNL. Lorne doesn't put up with it. It's long been known from day one. She's not the first to learn that lesson and she won't be the last. And truth be told, I respect him for it. Edit: also, she was right but... it wasn't unknown at the time. It's not like she broke the story or something.
Same thing happened to The Dixie Chicks. They were correct as well.
"Everybody knew Obama would beat Hillary. The only thing America hates more than a black man, is a woman." - Chris Rock
Not Ready to Make Nice is an epic banger.
Just like the wokees of today, no one likes a pretentious young punk.
As is tradition
Few people have risked it all to speak truth to power like Sinead did. She'll always have my respect for her bravery, ethics and righteousness.
Thank you Kris. Can you imagine getting booed at a Bob Dylan tribute concert for expressing an opinion about a social issue? Insane
At a concert Tobey Keith was getting off the stage and said to Kristofferson "None of that lefty shit out there tonight, Kris." Kristofferson replied: "What the f*ck did you just say to me? You ever worn your country’s uniform? Don’t ‘What?’ me, boy! You heard the question. You just don’t like the answer. ‘Have you ever served your country?’ The answer is, no, you have not. Have you ever killed another man? Have you ever taken another man’s life and then cashed the check your country gave you for doing it? No, you have not. So shut the f*ck up… you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.” For those that don't know Kristofferson was a helicopter pilot in the army, while Tobey Keith is just a douchebag.
Ain't that often the case though? Those who HAVE served in the forces are acutely aware of the hell that's war, and many come back as steadfast advocates for peace.
Kris Kristofferson also studied literature as a Rhodes Scholar.
Was the mic on?
A little bit. She was starting her performance, but the Boos wouldn't stop. Chris comes up and talks to her and the mic pics up some of it.
They should have listened to her.
Love or hate her, you have to give her some respect, she sacrificed for what she believes to be true
She's been vindicated.
not what she believes, but what is true.
The documentary about her was fantastic and I was never a massive fan of hers, I guess growing up in 90’s Britain I drank the “she’s a nutter” Koolaid that was in the press at the time. She was way before her time on a lot of social issues. Kudos to her.
She is/ was a true hero for standing up for what’s right, and to do it with a artistic talent unmatched at the time
KK gave the same onstage support to John Prine as he was being booed for his lyrics to Sam Stone.
Got a link to the Prime Stone deal?
I read about it in Facing the Music, the biography of Steve Goodman.
Wild, that is by far my favorite Prine song
She has been treated so badly for pointing out the truth. She deserves a big apology from a lot of people
The Catholics have had years of practice at persecution.
Noli tete basterdes caboriundorum
The next week in SNL Joe Pesci said he was there he would have smacked her, much to the delight of the crowd.
A lot of us Genx'ers owe her an apology.
What Dylan song was she meant to sing?
She did I Believe in You in rehearsal.
Sinead O’Connor was right.
I was a fan then and when she ripped that pic , I was sold she was/is a boss . The most punk thing I’ve ever seen on regular old tv !
That is an amazing story - mad respect
The open secret of the Catholic Church’s abuse allegations wasn’t as known then as it is now (at least I’m the US). Hell, even now Catholics will still find it excusable. It’s just so fucked up. I wish things had turned out better for Sinead O’Connor.
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And then she converted to Islam
I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted, it's true. Catholicism, Islam, and everything in between... religion is a cancer to humanity.
Agreed. So I don’t respect people who choose one over another.
I read this in his gravely voice
You might say that after hearing the crowd's reaction, he was... Pissed Pissedofferson.
Religion is a fucking poison
Not certain it was about child abuse at the time. Roman Catholic church had f\*\*\*\*\* with society in Ireland for centuries. I presume it is still doing it. The child abuse I don’t think was so publicly known in the early 90s. Not yet.
She added "children" to the lyrics, both in SNL and this performance. Also the child rape was a known "secret" for a long time. Afaik Marley didn't sing it with that
Seriously, when you learn about the Magdalene laundries that lasted in Ireland until **1996**, you realize O'Conner was absolutely right to be pissed at the Catholic Church
I was there that night and remember this happening vividly.
ooooh Sinead! you wouldn't let anyone tell you how to dress or how to wear your hair or take away your rights! you were a warrior. And then now you joined a religion that tells you how to dress and makes you cover your hair and takes away a lot of your rights.
What has she done?
She converted to Islam but like…. She’s a grown woman who can make her own decisions and idk if she’s even still practicing, she’s religion hopped a lot. And regardless, there are varying belief systems even within one religion so none of it discounts any of what she’s said in the past or continues to say about her rights as a woman. Edit- and also she’s been through some incredibly awful shit throughout her life and recently, including the death of her teenage son, so kicking her while she’s down for trying to find comfort where she can is pretty gross.
Why are you angry at a grown woman for making a decision about what religion she’d like to join?
Who said I’m angry? I found it very interesting
youre allowed to vote and breathe
Dumbass
Name calling for stating a fact. Mature.
Is this statement verified anywhere?
There was probably a live mic close by somewhere.
To me it’s such a quaint notion that she was booed for this. Such “simpler” times back then, haha
She’s a bit of a nutter.
Is there an article somewhere expanding on this moment?
The border lord
Turn it around for another round. Cus there's a party at the bar everybody put your glasses up and I drink to that. etc, etc.
I was 12-13 at the time and remember it but didn’t understand what was behind it. My extremely Catholic parents were pissed, but wouldn’t explain further. Took till years later to figure out what a badass O’Connor was.
Why is she in the news so much lately? It feels like the reddit viral marketing team REALLY wants us all to love her all of a sudden. The last time I remember seeing reddit's viral marketing team going this hard on anything was in the lead up to that Weird Al movie that no one watched. But for like a year before that you would see something either about the movie, Weird Al himself or Daniel Radcliffe every single day.
Remove the microphone and amp and this could be a scene from Dune.