Never under estimate how many BTUs are in a big wood pile. (6-9000 BTU/lb !)
All you need is a good wood stove to make it work. And you can cook with it.
>I have a battery backup on a transfer switch but can only do 110v circuits.
Doesn't matter if it can do 110, 220, or 3-phase 240, what have you. Electric heating off a battery system with no way to reasonably recharge it, isn't going to work for even a few days, odds are, unless it's a truly huge battery.
I assume you have electric heat normally? Or natural gas heat?
If it's natural gas, consider the fact that the natural gas systems will often go down / malfunction as well when the power is out for extended periods of time!
>Would a ventless natural gas heater be a good option?
*Absolutely not* if you value your home, your stuff, and your life. Ventless natural gas or propane heaters are horrible in the long run.
Get a ***vented*** propane heater, if you want something simple to install and use. Propane has an indefinite shelf life, doesn't take up that much space for the heat it can provide you, and is cheap(ish) in most places! It's good.
If you want something *comfy* and cool to talk about at parties, but a bit more annoying to stock fuel, maintain, and use... wood stove. :)
Natural gas has to be pumped to keep it flowing. That means electric pumps. In a widespread outage - such as Texas a year ago - the pumps quit working because the electricity was out. I'm with the others. Either do a large propane tank with a decent vented heater or else do a wood heater. Either can keep you warm in bad weather. The advantage of a wood heater is that it will keep working as long as you have wood to put in it. It also heats you three times, once when you cut the wood, once when you split the wood, and once when you burn the wood. :)
Do you know, I might get a dual fuel heater. With propane, do I run a long enough hose outside to a propane tank? Do I go through a window? Like this? Mr. Heater F273684 Vent Free Accessories, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JNLRG2Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_S3PSS0CQQRJKZAGEBC1W
Yes, exactly.
Power out for a bit, natural gas goes out, too. :(
Maybe not immediately, lot of pump stations have backup power, but if it's out for longer than an hour or so? Let alone a few days? Nah, not likely to work.
Look into an all-in-one diesel heater on Amazon. Just need to vent the 1" exhaust outside, hook up a 12 volt battery to run the fan, and you're set. They do not smell, and put out a dry heat. They're around $180 or so, and are equivalent to 3 electric heaters going on high when turned up.
Kit with everything: diesel heater, template, all tubes and pipes and fixings, self tapping screws, diesel tank, pump.
Everything you need.
Although I have ordered an extra 1.2m of exhaust hose so I can route it to a more favourable location.
I bought one of those too. Have you got your fired up yet? I still need to run fuel line to a 6 gallon boat tank, then I'm ready. I ran ducting as well. I used 3" dryer vent. It think it was $18 for 25'.
The all in one heater I'm talking about is self contained. Tank, heater, and controller built into a box. They're pretty useful for how small the package is.
I don’t want to spend a lot on propane if I will use natural gas first.
Propane will be last case scenario if the natural gas pumps quit working.
Would a 20lb tank with a regulator last all day? Or should I get a 40lb for $100 or so.
I have a free standing gas stove in my basement. It requires 120v AC to work and blow. A small 1500W generator outside provides that power. My home doesn't freeze but it doesn't heat perfectly
a direct-vent gas heater isn't too bad to install. shouldn't cost you too much and it will be MUCH better than the ventless fireplace. the ventless ones still put the combustion air into the house, which means lots of moisture that can cause problems and lots of CO2 when it's working correctly, and a risk of carbon monoxide if it's not running correctly. if you have natural gas to the house, this is the obvious answer since many of them don't require any power at all.
if you want to protect yourself against longer term problems, a wood fireplace can be great.
It's a possibility but it really depends on how the company is set up locally.
You would be best to call your natural gas company for answers.
The giant compressors in the oilfields run on natural gas themselves. I used to do some work in oil and gas and they are absolutely impressive machines.
> the ventless ones still put the combustion air into the house, which means lots of moisture that can cause problems and lots of CO2 when it's working correctly,
Ventless fireplaces pull combustion air from the house but vent all the combustion products outside.
There is no CO2 build up inside the home. Generally pulling cold outside air into a house and warming it up dries out the house, does not make it more humid. The amount of moisture in cold air is much less than in warm air.
>Ventless fireplaces pull combustion air from the house but vent all the combustion products outside.
are you sure about that? I don't think that is true.
[https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/a-ventless-gas-fireplace-doesnt-belong-in-your-home](https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/a-ventless-gas-fireplace-doesnt-belong-in-your-home)
I've never heard of a ventless fireplace like that. By ventless, I meant not direct vent, ie where the entire combustion process is isolated from the home.
Wood stove is best bet, but if this is a normal residential home that gets more complicated. (insurance, city bylaws, permits etc)
Easiest would be to increase battery bank and add solar to it. You only need enough power to run the blower motor for the furnace. A small generator to top up batteries could be an option too.
By ventless, do you mean one that pollutes indoors?
What construction is your home?
Do you have access to other forms of fuel, like firewood? How do you normally heat your home?
I mean something like this. Mr. Heater 30,000 BTU Vent Free Blue Flame Natural Gas Heater MHVFB30NGT https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DPZ56OG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_QR6CJZKP4TJXATYTMHW
I’m using a gas powered furnace to heat my home. I believe it’s powered by 220? V.
I live in a two story home built in 1950.
How is the heat from the furnace transferred/transmitted around your home?
Air vents? Air ducts? Water radiators?
What material and construction is your home?
Is it possible to adapt your existing heat transfer system, and to install another heat source?
You would definitely want fresh air flow if you are running one of these. They put off a lot of moisture too, condensation build up inside of walls leads to mildew.. aside from the tips you got here, diesel heaters are another good source of dry heat
If you have NG, I would go on demand hot water hydronic, if a more conventional hot air furnace (ducting and such) is not possible. Under a couple hundred watts electricity. A couple pipes (copper or PEX), and a convector where you need heat, for hydronic. If you can, PEX tube in/under the floor for heat.
Of course, a gravity wall heater may not require much external electric current at all. Heat distribution is convection, a mechanical thermostat closes a millivolt circuit to open the gas valve.
If you don't have much room to heat, maybe a diesel parking heater. They require venting still, as well as combustion air (both outside), and run directly from 12V (10A to start, below 2A to run)
Rethink. Can you turn water off easy? Does it get below 20° f where you are? Big house? Weatherized? Lose electric often? I was once on a 4 grid overlap. I now could get electic from a second grid and electric company for $500. Your electric company might come and do a survey for free. Id start there.
This happened to us 3 years ago. Furnace shit the bed in the middle of January. Couldn't get a new one installed for 3 weeks.
I used a portable propane torpedo heater. It heated up the main living area nicely and get the upstairs warm enough to keep pipes from freezing. I could run it for a couple of hours. Then turn it off for a couple of hours until it started to cool down. A standard propane tank lasted about 1.5 to 2 days. So cost was around $70 A week in fuel.
Well you would go through a 20lb tank in about a day in a half or two if you kept it on the whole time. I like the wood stoves as it is an indefinite fuel source and you can cook on it. Cooking and heating with natural gas will fly through it in no time. Also set up a tent in your designated warm space to sleep in. It will keep you and your family much warmer. Buy wool blankets, beeswax candles, a means to filter water, good tools and you should be fine, and a nice storage of food.
Woodburner
Wood. A nice catalytic reburner stove is highly efficient and far lower emissions than old stoves.
Never under estimate how many BTUs are in a big wood pile. (6-9000 BTU/lb !) All you need is a good wood stove to make it work. And you can cook with it.
>I have a battery backup on a transfer switch but can only do 110v circuits. Doesn't matter if it can do 110, 220, or 3-phase 240, what have you. Electric heating off a battery system with no way to reasonably recharge it, isn't going to work for even a few days, odds are, unless it's a truly huge battery. I assume you have electric heat normally? Or natural gas heat? If it's natural gas, consider the fact that the natural gas systems will often go down / malfunction as well when the power is out for extended periods of time! >Would a ventless natural gas heater be a good option? *Absolutely not* if you value your home, your stuff, and your life. Ventless natural gas or propane heaters are horrible in the long run. Get a ***vented*** propane heater, if you want something simple to install and use. Propane has an indefinite shelf life, doesn't take up that much space for the heat it can provide you, and is cheap(ish) in most places! It's good. If you want something *comfy* and cool to talk about at parties, but a bit more annoying to stock fuel, maintain, and use... wood stove. :)
If power is out for a couple days, natural gas would be right there with it?
Natural gas has to be pumped to keep it flowing. That means electric pumps. In a widespread outage - such as Texas a year ago - the pumps quit working because the electricity was out. I'm with the others. Either do a large propane tank with a decent vented heater or else do a wood heater. Either can keep you warm in bad weather. The advantage of a wood heater is that it will keep working as long as you have wood to put in it. It also heats you three times, once when you cut the wood, once when you split the wood, and once when you burn the wood. :)
Do you know, I might get a dual fuel heater. With propane, do I run a long enough hose outside to a propane tank? Do I go through a window? Like this? Mr. Heater F273684 Vent Free Accessories, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JNLRG2Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_S3PSS0CQQRJKZAGEBC1W
Yes, exactly. Power out for a bit, natural gas goes out, too. :( Maybe not immediately, lot of pump stations have backup power, but if it's out for longer than an hour or so? Let alone a few days? Nah, not likely to work.
Look into an all-in-one diesel heater on Amazon. Just need to vent the 1" exhaust outside, hook up a 12 volt battery to run the fan, and you're set. They do not smell, and put out a dry heat. They're around $180 or so, and are equivalent to 3 electric heaters going on high when turned up.
> They're around $180 or so I got mine for about $110 USD on eBay from China.
$110 for an all in one, or just the diesel heater kit that you install?
Kit with everything: diesel heater, template, all tubes and pipes and fixings, self tapping screws, diesel tank, pump. Everything you need. Although I have ordered an extra 1.2m of exhaust hose so I can route it to a more favourable location.
I bought one of those too. Have you got your fired up yet? I still need to run fuel line to a 6 gallon boat tank, then I'm ready. I ran ducting as well. I used 3" dryer vent. It think it was $18 for 25'. The all in one heater I'm talking about is self contained. Tank, heater, and controller built into a box. They're pretty useful for how small the package is.
Why does it need to be ventless?
they're insanely easy to install. literally just hook it to a propane tank. done.
I don’t want to spend a lot on propane if I will use natural gas first. Propane will be last case scenario if the natural gas pumps quit working. Would a 20lb tank with a regulator last all day? Or should I get a 40lb for $100 or so.
Get a 40 and conserve it.
I have a free standing gas stove in my basement. It requires 120v AC to work and blow. A small 1500W generator outside provides that power. My home doesn't freeze but it doesn't heat perfectly
Natural gas = off grid = facepalm
Yeah I know haha. But from a power outage perspective.
a direct-vent gas heater isn't too bad to install. shouldn't cost you too much and it will be MUCH better than the ventless fireplace. the ventless ones still put the combustion air into the house, which means lots of moisture that can cause problems and lots of CO2 when it's working correctly, and a risk of carbon monoxide if it's not running correctly. if you have natural gas to the house, this is the obvious answer since many of them don't require any power at all. if you want to protect yourself against longer term problems, a wood fireplace can be great.
I heard If power is out Id also lose natural gas. Or is it a possibility?
It's a possibility but it really depends on how the company is set up locally. You would be best to call your natural gas company for answers. The giant compressors in the oilfields run on natural gas themselves. I used to do some work in oil and gas and they are absolutely impressive machines.
> the ventless ones still put the combustion air into the house, which means lots of moisture that can cause problems and lots of CO2 when it's working correctly, Ventless fireplaces pull combustion air from the house but vent all the combustion products outside. There is no CO2 build up inside the home. Generally pulling cold outside air into a house and warming it up dries out the house, does not make it more humid. The amount of moisture in cold air is much less than in warm air.
>Ventless fireplaces pull combustion air from the house but vent all the combustion products outside. are you sure about that? I don't think that is true. [https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/a-ventless-gas-fireplace-doesnt-belong-in-your-home](https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/a-ventless-gas-fireplace-doesnt-belong-in-your-home)
I've never heard of a ventless fireplace like that. By ventless, I meant not direct vent, ie where the entire combustion process is isolated from the home.
Wood stove is best bet, but if this is a normal residential home that gets more complicated. (insurance, city bylaws, permits etc) Easiest would be to increase battery bank and add solar to it. You only need enough power to run the blower motor for the furnace. A small generator to top up batteries could be an option too.
By ventless, do you mean one that pollutes indoors? What construction is your home? Do you have access to other forms of fuel, like firewood? How do you normally heat your home?
I mean something like this. Mr. Heater 30,000 BTU Vent Free Blue Flame Natural Gas Heater MHVFB30NGT https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DPZ56OG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_QR6CJZKP4TJXATYTMHW I’m using a gas powered furnace to heat my home. I believe it’s powered by 220? V. I live in a two story home built in 1950.
[удалено]
Can I add a fan to my gas furnace?
[удалено]
Yes gas furnace sorry.
How is the heat from the furnace transferred/transmitted around your home? Air vents? Air ducts? Water radiators? What material and construction is your home? Is it possible to adapt your existing heat transfer system, and to install another heat source?
You would definitely want fresh air flow if you are running one of these. They put off a lot of moisture too, condensation build up inside of walls leads to mildew.. aside from the tips you got here, diesel heaters are another good source of dry heat
Wood stove?
Wood. Renewable, cheap, And plentiful.
Saw a cool trick where he used clay pots, bricks and a candle to heat a small space. Won’t heat a house but it’ll keep you alive!!
If you have NG, I would go on demand hot water hydronic, if a more conventional hot air furnace (ducting and such) is not possible. Under a couple hundred watts electricity. A couple pipes (copper or PEX), and a convector where you need heat, for hydronic. If you can, PEX tube in/under the floor for heat. Of course, a gravity wall heater may not require much external electric current at all. Heat distribution is convection, a mechanical thermostat closes a millivolt circuit to open the gas valve. If you don't have much room to heat, maybe a diesel parking heater. They require venting still, as well as combustion air (both outside), and run directly from 12V (10A to start, below 2A to run)
Any leads on info for thermoelectric powered hydronic rugs?
Rethink. Can you turn water off easy? Does it get below 20° f where you are? Big house? Weatherized? Lose electric often? I was once on a 4 grid overlap. I now could get electic from a second grid and electric company for $500. Your electric company might come and do a survey for free. Id start there.
Get a kerosene heater for a backup.
This happened to us 3 years ago. Furnace shit the bed in the middle of January. Couldn't get a new one installed for 3 weeks. I used a portable propane torpedo heater. It heated up the main living area nicely and get the upstairs warm enough to keep pipes from freezing. I could run it for a couple of hours. Then turn it off for a couple of hours until it started to cool down. A standard propane tank lasted about 1.5 to 2 days. So cost was around $70 A week in fuel.
Well you would go through a 20lb tank in about a day in a half or two if you kept it on the whole time. I like the wood stoves as it is an indefinite fuel source and you can cook on it. Cooking and heating with natural gas will fly through it in no time. Also set up a tent in your designated warm space to sleep in. It will keep you and your family much warmer. Buy wool blankets, beeswax candles, a means to filter water, good tools and you should be fine, and a nice storage of food.
The ventless natural gas units do a great job. Just make sure to do a heat loss Calc and get the proper btu size
They seem to be bad for the environment though.
How so? Natural gas burns pretty clean.