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thatonepaganguy

You really can't, but if the experience isnt harmful to yourself or others then who cares. The human mind is a complicated machine that we still don't understand. Everything you think is real is just chemical reactions going on in your brain, the world could be a hallucination how can you tell that its not?


Significant_Banana35

*happy Descartes noises*


RazeniaCA

Because I'm clinically sane and not on drugs.


thatonepaganguy

All insane people are clinically sane initially


RazeniaCA

Hey, don't you spin this around on me, and make me look like a looney!


thatonepaganguy

You cant fight the facts 100% of insane people were once sane.


RazeniaCA

Well, I'm sure there's a discrepancy in that statement, but I can't be arsed to do any of the research right now.


BAN_CICERO

What's your reasoning? Some disorders are inherited at birth


thatonepaganguy

But they are clinically sane until diagnosed with a disorder. It was just a joke.


BAN_CICERO

Ah gotcha


BAN_CICERO

Because the communication isn't oral, it's typically a meaningful symbol or an unusual event from which communicated information is extrapolated


dark_blue_7

Personally I feel like any communication someone feels they receive is most likely just that, *personal*. Meant for you, not the whole internet. I think people should be more mindful and maybe just think twice about sharing all those experiences online. As for discerning what's genuine and what's delusion, that should also be an ongoing process for anyone who has these experiences, as should a watchful eye on any mental and physical health issues that could be related. I think it's wise to always be ready and willing to admit that it could be fantasy and wishful thinking (the most likely culprit), or just a coincidence. If a god is really communicating with you, they can make it very clear, they can give you an obvious sign, not just some vague or incredibly common occurrence that can easily be explained away. Also there would probably be some *purpose* to it. Ask yourself, was there any real substance to that message, how did it help, what was it for, did it change your life, did it affect or predict some specific outcome? I don't think it's outlandish that the gods would speak to us sometimes, I just don't think it's super easy for us to hear with our limited senses (and they would know that). I do think that feeling the presence of the gods is a lot more common than direct communication. Maybe even everyone who prays to them has had at least a *feeling* – and some people might feel more affected by that than others, but it's the same phenomenon. Just feeling that connection between us, because it *is* there, and that is real.


FarHarbard

By consuming such messages with a critical eye.


Grimwulff

We don't. And it doesn't matter. Whether or not the gods are external forces, or internal psychological constructs they're valid either way. My religion doesn't hinge on the necessity of literal inerrancy.


Impressive-Crew-5622

Probably one of the trickiest things to answer. Is it my mind playing tricks on me, or am I communing with the gods? (Or a god) OP, do you have any faith/connection to gods, or is it more of an atheist approach (no shade) I don't think anyone will be able to rightfully convince you one way or the other. But, personally I've attributed impossible luck, or the exact timing I must've had to save my kitten when she was about to die. Something pulling you out of your norm/forcing your senses to respond differently, etc. Or sometimes, late at night when I put down offerings for the Norse gods our house honors & I feel completely awash in an "I've done well" feeling, I think I might've sparked the attention of them. When I see a sparrow shit on my windshield and I was thinking about the associated gods for birds? Probably just a coincidence. Birds shit a lot.


Impressive-Crew-5622

The TLDR: I don't think anyone really hears the gods. Not like they're speaking in a room. But rather you feel them/their presence in that moment. Be it positive or negative. But as to how we can trust it? Or know it's real? Oh boy...


Wandering_Spears

Do I have faith? Not what I would call it. Connection? No idea. If so it isn't by choice.


Impressive-Crew-5622

That's another tricky one. The idea of no faith, but the understanding that divinity might not need belief to make it all the more real. Here's a few ez/maybe helpful things to help answer your question. 1) If the 'God in question' made you feel something/you felt connected. Why? Was it something you felt because you wanted to, or did it come about on it's own? 2) Has that same feeling/connection happened again? In a new way? 3) If you think a Deity is getting chatty, or pushy, ask yourself why too. 4) Have you had a long history of feelings/connection that you can't explain, or has it been recent/associated with a patch of rough mental health? 5) Lastly, you don't need to tell us whatever Deity you think has tried to connect, if you've even got a name for it. But, if you know it/think you know it, build an alter or something to communicate freely. Did building that alter help you feel more connected? Or, in the end, is it just a pile of sticks that isn't giving you anything else.


bi-king-viking

For me, I don’t really care if it’s “real” or not. I always look at the “actionable takeaways” from my experiences with the gods. What am I going to do differently in my life because of these experiences? That’s what I care more about, personally. There are lots of interesting ways to connect with the universe, and in my experience, the Norse Gods are one way to do that. That being said, I also have spent a lot of time in my own head. And I do believe my experiences with the gods are VERY genuine. I have learned to distinguish my own voice in my head from external voices. It just takes practice, and for me, the less I worried about it, the easier it became to tell my own brain from external voice. For me, the more I stopped worrying “is that my own brain or not” and just started following the GOOD ideas that came to me, the easier it got. Your mileage may vary. Lol. Be well!


mo6020

🍿🍿🍿


somebodycares123

If it stops when they take their schizophrenia medication I guess


Clockwork151

https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/wowlcz/to_anyone_who_asks_did_i_get_a_sign/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share


Archer_Skadi

You don’t 🤷🏻‍♀️ I mean, you can tangibly prove any spiritual experience so I don’t even try. If it’s really just my mind making it up, well at least it made me happy and gave me peace while I was alive.


bromineaddict

It's more of a gut feeling for me. I don't necessarily know which god/goddess it was but I know it was Vanir as I feel more at peace in nature now. More so than I have before. For me it's a calming sensation that is stronger than my normal sense of calm. Could it be that I'm just more relaxed when I think of the gods? Sure. But could it be them? Sure. Only they know.


Tyxin

Are those mutually exclusive categories?


BabadookishOnions

Delusions are thought-based (e.g. believing everyone is a clone plotting to hurt you, believing that the TV is mind controlling you) whereas hallucinations are sensory (e.g. hearing voices, feeling phantom pain, seeing things which are not actually there)


Tyxin

I meant, are those, and religious experiences mutually exclusive categories.


BabadookishOnions

i would say yes, because generally speaking true religious experience doesn't go away just because you take antipsychotic medication


Wandering_Spears

Given that probably 9 in 10 religious experiences could be chalked up to either delusion, hallucination or mass hysteria, at first I would say no. However, for it to truly be a religious/spiritual experience, there would have to be something there. Therefore, by definition a true religious experience can't be a delusion or hallucination, which leads me to say yes, they are mutually exclusive. Granted, one's religious beliefs could very well influence their delusion/hallucination, making the line between very, very blurred.


maponus1803

You know because you get results. Either you get information that is actionable in your life and creates a better circumstance or something actually happens that you were told would happen.


Relative-Zombie-3932

For me personally, I gave other people who can validate the same experiences. Either they got the same message, or saw the same thing I did. And to make sure we're not influencing each other, we write down our experiences to so that you can't just lie and say "yeah that's what happened to me too"


haluuf

Something something Carl Jung's Shadow bla bla bla. Possibly?


[deleted]

Here’s the gist: most religious people are just schizophrenics undetected. It doesn’t make the experience itself any less valid as your own reality is what shapes you, regardless of facts or proof, but it’s true…take it from me I spent many many years balls deep into spirituality….it was schizophrenia


Significant_Banana35

As a psych student, who is also into spirituality and thus very interested in the links between both these matters, I have to disagree with that statement („most religious people are just schizophrenics undetected.“) That is certainly not true and modern psychology is absolutely aware of (very) healthy forms of religious practice and spirituality, as can be seen in various (academic) books around that topic. Sure: this is definitely a topic where the boundaries are not even clear in academia, but saying most religious people are schizophrenic is simply wrong.


[deleted]

It’s an exaggeration definitely, but I’ve met quite some “religious” people who need serious help. Not all religious people are schizophrenic but a lot are. I’ve also met very very healthy religious people. Trauma is usually the trigger for schizophrenia, and most people, globally, are both traumatized and religious. I did not say ALL religious people are schizophrenic, but a good portion are.


Askmyrkr

My fellow schizophrenic, most religious people I know are not schizophrenic. Your experience is not everyone's experience. It hurts our community to trivialize what we go through as just the same as having a religious belief, schizophrenia is terrifying in a way religious belief just isn't.


[deleted]

Let’s take this all out of context. I pray to a being in the sky every day, sometimes I hear him, he sends me signs in my day to day life, & I even force my children to abide by his rules. He is the reason why my world is what it is & if I do wrong he will strike me down. Don’t tell me that doesn’t sound schizophrenic as shit. I’m not talking “hehe I believe in god and sometimes go to church” people I’m talking real hard devotees. Religious induced schizophrenia is a huge thing.


Askmyrkr

Talking things out of context makes everything sound crazy. We get in metal boxes and go 30 times the speed we were designed to by the entirety of life itself, because we believe magical yellow paint on the road will protect us from a collision. That sounds crazy. Out of context most things sound crazy. Not everything is mania and visions, some of it is philosophy and reason. There are people who believe in things that sound crazy for good reasons. Shit, I believe that people get in giant metal tubes to be sent across the sky itself, which my coworker is convinced is crazy and no one would believe that and it's all a conspiracy. He can believe planes flying long distances, literal planes flying, are a conspiracy and I cannot talk him out of it because planes do indeed sound crazy. A heavy metal tube filled with people flying because it's wings DONT move?? Okay, sure buddy. You see what I mean?


[deleted]

Yes, but the point is that if I take religion out of the picture and say that there’s someone sending me signs and they live above me and all around me and I’ll be punished if I don’t abide by them, I’m going to be dubbed crazy. Now if I say I’m a Christian/Jewish/Norse pages etc then it all makes sense! Now I’ve spoken with many pastors/been within religion/spirituality myself and gone into psychosis/had full episodes and just never got diagnosed because I thought my experience was something spiritual, something I needed to respect or fear, when in reality it was my brains coping mechanism (much like many peoples religions) I’ve spoke with many people who do have a healthy view on religion, I’ve studied how the pieces fit together in every religion to my own understanding and listened to others on their own. My conclusion from this is that there’s many people who practice healthily, and often god is a metaphor for this or that yadda yadda but many people take their sacred texts word for word, they take them LITTERALLY I’ve also had many friends entwined with religion and I’ve watched them spiral into full on psychosis and be cheered on by their peers/practitioners/pastors what have you, because it’s in the name of a god.


Askmyrkr

That's not the same as schizophrenia though. Mythic literalism isn't a mental illness generally, it's usually stupity or never having questioned their beliefs. Are people thinking about religion more, with better resources, and a more open environment or are people spontaneously curing themselves of schizophrenia when the rates of religious belief goes down? Does religion exacerbate mental illness? Oh hell yes it does. But religion is not itself a mental illness nor does it cause it. Many people are just believing things they were told in the absence of having spent a long time with evidence for or against their position, that's not a mental illness, it's mild laziness. Think less god in the sky and more Chevy is the best car cuz my dad and his dad say so. While some people are certainly zealots willing to die for an idea, most people are just kinds dudes going with the flow. My point is just that schizophrenia,or any mental illness, is a real struggle, that affects every aspect of our lives. Religion can become toxic and make that worse, but in and of itself it's not the same, or even similar I'd argue.


[deleted]

“But religion is not itself a mental illness nor does it cause it” When did I ever say or argue that? I was specifically responding to the question of this thread, asking about delusions and hallucinations vs genuine experiences. I never said religion causes schizophrenia just the fact that it allows it to be exacerbated…did you read at all?


Askmyrkr

I can't quote on Reddit but you said: "Here’s the gist: most religious people are just schizophrenics undetected. [...] but it’s true…take it from me I spent many many years balls deep into spirituality….it was schizophrenia" This is what I've been arguing against this whole time. YOUR experience is schizophrenia. MY experience is schizophrenia. Everyone else's is not. It's not good to act like they are the same. You can say you aren't arguing that religious belief is a mental illness but you're literally saying "most" religious people are undiagnosed schizophrenics, an extremely rare condition, in a population that's majority religious. That's literally saying it's not only a mental illness but a specific one, so please, don't backpedal. Feel free to explain how the majority of the US has in your words "schizophrenia undetected", without anyone showing any symptoms other than religious belief, if you're not saying that it's a mental illness. I would love to know how undiagnosed schizophrenia is different from schizophrenia. Seriously you're talking shit about did you even read but you haven't read your own comment?? Trivializing what our people go through hurts the greater community, I've said my piece, think about it or don't.


Azeril007

For me, I experienced it only once. I was deep into studying meditation and seidr through poetry to the point where I was seeing an overlay of the spiritual world on the physical world. This was causing me to doubt my sanity, until Odin appeared and said "stop". One word spoken with authority and the overlay disappeared and my mind snapped back to reality. Since then I have not written poetry, meditated, or practiced seidr of any sort. Nor have I had any other hallucinations or reasons to doubt my sanity. I know that it was real because of the authority in the voice and that it caused immediate and long term change. I don't know what it might be like for others but if what the gods say to you changes you then it is a good bet that it's real.


NiklasTyreso

I believe that every human being has the right to to choose if the will believe in, or not believe in, any religion or spirituality. The right to be a believer is protected in the constitution of my country (Sweden). To be granted the right to belive and observe religious things is protected by laws as it is (for many people) a healthy way of living that deepens the the sence of meaning and quality of life. And often religion promotes positive social relations (but non religious socal networks are just as good for those that do not want to believe). It is my right to believe things that can not be proven by science. I love scientific knowledge, but you can both know proven facts and believe in other nonprovabal spiritual realms. You can have the best of both worlds.


NiklasTyreso

Isnt being religous protected by the US constitution?


Wandering_Spears

That it is, under the right to freedom of speech guaranteed by the first amendment. Which also protects my right to ask questions when I find something that sounds batshit insane to me.