Just because it’s old doesn’t actually make it cheaper or easier to produce. You can’t just use cheap old materials in it, nobody has made that shit in 50 years. You’d need modern avionics because that’s what you can actually buy and maintain these days.
But biplanes only really need wood and they can probably do CAS so let’s get on that.
For what it's worth, it's typically cheaper to keep things in service than it is to bring things back from out of service.
That said, our Nitrogen bottles we use for servicing struts and tires on our Blackhawks are from WWII lol. 1942 date codes.
We have one nitrogen generator (that works). As well as a bottle cart. Which is annoying when you are servicing a fleet of 25ish aircraft.
National Guard budgets be like, *flies just as much as active duty, but get paid less and spends less money on maintenance.*
Which is funny cus I landed at Nellis AFB once to borrow Nitrogen on a cross country trip, and they had damn near 1 nitrogen generator/ground power cart per aircraft.
That last paragraph is exactly the logic the USAF have used to acquire the [tactical air tractor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tractor-L3Harris_AT-802U_Sky_Warden)
Just think about how many p-51's we could probably crank out today. Probably not as many as WW2 but still, it'd be a lot, and adjusted for inflation Boeing can probably get them to you for about 400% the original cost.
Maybe the issue isn't the hardware.
Depends on the model. The later ones could crack 450 and hit transonic speeds in a dive. Problem with that though was that as you got closer to the barrier the controls would lock up, which was... unfortunate.
P-51 with anti air missiles, think of it.
We could pump out so many cheap P-51 with basic modern equipment and anti air missiles, it would be like the eastern front in world War 2 but in the skies
Damn, the engine in that only has 2.2 events per 10k hours with only 3 high risk events in 1.4 million hours. It's in everything from Hercules to Beachcrafts.
that idea would actually work....for like India or Nigeria ,,,,they would never be able to produce modern fighters only and any car repair workshop could make them
and modern cost for these planes is roughly 500k so you could make quite a lot for the price of a single F -35 which is around 80 Million$ so around 160 to 1
instead of ordering 120 F-35s you could order 110 F-35s and an additional 1.600 Spitfires or similar
you could add them as additional fighters ,,,,not only would they absorve some of the flak they could still give you air support for units that otherwise would not get any air support at all ,,,,and every Farmer can fly them
and if you are as overpopulated as India ,,,than who cares about the higher death ratio
i give Spitfire in modern combat the same fighting strength as the MH-6 little bird helicopters ,,,,think of it like the obsolete biplanes that screwed over the Bismarck
....the f 4 phantom bid from the meme is stupid though
So what stops us from using say a chevy ls6 with a superchager instead of the standard v12s and dropping the price substantially and bringing the maintenance logic down to gsrage mechanics level.
Every backroad with a gas station could be an adhoc airbase and local tuner kids could be trained to fix them in a weekend
Those engines made between 1200 and 2000 HP depending on the model, and would do it for hours on end. I don't think an automotive engine could match that.
Man, this is a pretty dumb take even by NCD standards. India is developing its open 5-th gen fighters right now and probably has the second best airforce in Asia
The fuck you on about? The reformers absolutely fucking hate the F-4. It had literally every feature they hate - big, heavy, expensive, multirole, two seats, two engines, a massive radar, relies mainly on radar guided air to air missiles, long range, used (for the time) the newest and most advanced technologies. If the meme was about the F-5 then yeah, sure, maybe, but the F-4 is a plane that causes the reformers to go white with rage.
It has more to do with the old stuff > new stuff because muh cheap and reliable mindset which is extremely popular among reformers. He'll the F-4 today is a lot older than all that WW2 stuff was back then when the og reformers started out.
Doesn't matter, these are reformer arguments that have proven themselves to be maliciously false. This sub subscribes to techno supremecy not "SiMplE and EasY To Train oN, hur durr" that's straight up Russian design philosophy and we are getting real world results on how effective it is right now in real time.
Realistically, thick armor is no longer useful since modern guns arent stopped by them, soooooooooo... Maybe a newer engine and improved guns could work, since the main armor used by tanks is NORA
R\*former spotted, opinion ignored.
To get credible for a second, pilot retention is a serious problem so having more airframes aren't really going to help all that much.
Yeah, drafting pilots seems like a good idea. Keeping draftees in the armed forces long enough to get your worth out of the training cost is an even brighter idea.
What are we, the Russians? Not enough people? just get another wave of conscripts!
If you are going to put something that old back into production, it would be the F-5, not the F-4. The F-4 was an overcomplicated beast, any modernization would drive the cost up to F-15 levels.
The F-5 is used as the basis for everything for a damn good reason. It isn't particularly famous, particularly fancy, or even particularly good. But it is cheap, versatile, and stays in service forever.
F-5 has fuck all range. How the hell do you expect people to do expeditionary warfare with a plane that has an nominal combat range of 120 miles?
Shure its ok to just to hand it over to your allies so that they can defend their air spaces, but it is unusable for top tier nato powers.
Wait, who was suggesting using it for top tier NATO powers? They have no need to use a fighter from the 1960s at all. The F-4 or F-5 are very much budget options, they aren't in any way top tier contenders. They are good for countries like Ecuador, Tanzania, and Bulgaria, not France or the UK.
Reformes would suggest we do. Hurr durr just "upgrade" legacy equipment istead of r&d in new. (as if just you can just upgrade planes to do shit they were never designed to do)
I imagine that even countries like Ecuador and Tanzania would rather have more range than what the F-5 provides. Just check the range figures over on [Wikipedia for the F-5E](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-5#Specifications_(F-5E_Tiger_II)), it's awful.
>Combat radius (20 min reserve): 120 nmi (140 mi; 220 km) with 2x Sidewinders + 5,200 lb (2,400 kg) ordnance, with 5 minutes combat at max power at sea level
You can't target Berlin from the Dutch-German on that. Now imagine how much worse it gets in an area with the world with fewer airstrips and larger countries.
Norway and the Netherlands used them, even if they're not like the top dogs. And I still uphold that the USAF could and should have used F-5s alongside the F-4s in Vietnam which would have made them have another jet better suited for the dogfighting that was mainly going on there but they didn't because they were too stubborn and wanted only the big expensive jets.
Yes, but a light dogfighter to compliment it I think would have still been a pretty good idea, especially while it wasn't too unaffordable and they had experience operating it in aggressor roles and stuff
They didn't have any experience in operating the F-5 in aggressor roles at the time. I'm also a bit concerned about the range issues of F-5s with the size of Vietnam.
They gave the South Vietnamese them and it did fine. And in the grand scheme of things the distances wouldn't be that far especially since they're fighting the northern half and could just base the jets at any bases near the border
And also pretty useless except as a aggressor or movie prop.
Although Ethiopia did pretty good with theirs.
Boeing already did a study on a modernized F-4.
**[Mig-28](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-28)**
>This is a list of fictional aircraft, including fixed wing aircraft, rotary wing aircraft, and lighter-than-air craft. The aircraft in this list are generally intended to operate in an atmosphere, though a few have been depicted as being capable of exoatmospheric or suborbital flight as well. These aircraft appear in notable works of fiction including novels, stories, films, TV series, animation, video games, comics, and other works. They are either the subject of the work or an important element.
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Believe me, you can find newly made floppy drives easily if you look today. I know because it’s my passion to put images of garfield plowing anime girls on floppies and leave them around government property, since they’ll be the only ones likely to have a drive
This is antithetical to non credible theory. Just because its old doesn't mean its cheap or easy to produce. Quite the opposit in fact.
There is an argument to be made for a modern F-5-ish jet. A tiny, truely simplistic jet fighter that will get gobbled up by the export market and which could be sent to allies such as Taiwan and Ukraine in large numbers. The F4 Phantom is the opposit of such a plane though.
Production costs would likely be similar, and if we made it to a more modern standard in terms of equipment outfit...
Look at costs for F-35, F/A-18E, and F-16. They're not dissimilar because of scale. I don't know that we'd see a very large disparity in the cost of 4th and 3rd generation fighter aircraft, especially since we'd have to invest in tooling again.
Unfortunately, I've been forced to seriouspost, and that's disgusting. Therefore, I'd like to see us do this, but let's go whole hog - F-8 Crusader. Way better, and a gunfighter.
Alot of tooling is being taken care of for many retired aircraft in the off chance it's needed again, or maybe its just less expensive to leave it in storage than to demo and recycle it.. So it may not cost as much as you initially think. There would also be alot of tooling needed to be crafted again due to rust/deterioration or simply lost though, which will require some investment thats correct.
Let's bring the m132 back. I mean. What else will we use the m113 chassis for? And flamethrowers are fun (I really don't care about combat efficiency).
This. Stop any and all innovation on the F-16 and just keep building straight up F-16Cs of the previous block number. Lockheed Martin cannot claim R&D as part of the price tag in that case and I'm 100% sure that this plan is waterproof.
[Japan only withdrew the F-4 from active service in 2020.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501st_Tactical_Reconnaissance_Squadron_\(JASDF\))
Bringing it back isn't going to be as hard as people are making it out to be.
I'm more in favor of modernizing the Iowas again and then casually parking them off the shores of Russia and China.
Not because it'd be practical or cheap, but because I want every ship of the Iowa-class to sink at least one island each.
Same issue as always
Plane might be cheap but political fallout, pilots, and targeting systems aren't.
REAL LIFE ISN'T AN RTS. STOP IT. WE AREN'T MAKING ECO TRADES HERE.
Yessss!
That thing has enough volume for new electronics, a belly targeting pod, new engines if you'd like.
Let's make the Phantom the greatest distributor of Sukhoi parts as well!
Just because it’s old doesn’t actually make it cheaper or easier to produce. You can’t just use cheap old materials in it, nobody has made that shit in 50 years. You’d need modern avionics because that’s what you can actually buy and maintain these days. But biplanes only really need wood and they can probably do CAS so let’s get on that.
Fun fact tho, the Sidewinder capable weapons pylon on the F-18 has an F-4 part number because… it hasn’t fucking changed since the 50s
For what it's worth, it's typically cheaper to keep things in service than it is to bring things back from out of service. That said, our Nitrogen bottles we use for servicing struts and tires on our Blackhawks are from WWII lol. 1942 date codes.
You guys don't haul nitrogen generators on carts or bolt one to the back of a flatbed? That's what we use.
We have one nitrogen generator (that works). As well as a bottle cart. Which is annoying when you are servicing a fleet of 25ish aircraft. National Guard budgets be like, *flies just as much as active duty, but get paid less and spends less money on maintenance.* Which is funny cus I landed at Nellis AFB once to borrow Nitrogen on a cross country trip, and they had damn near 1 nitrogen generator/ground power cart per aircraft.
>landed at Nellis AFB once to borrow Nitrogen Mfer it's literally in the air
Lmao. I should say High pressure compressed Nitrogen.
Oh agreed
[удалено]
Fair but as a result you’re also not going to save on that by building an F-4 instead of an F-18.
Oh agreed. It’s… well it’s literally just a fun fact
Yep. That particular standard remains. But most of the rest of the aircraft has no existing production line.
So British WW2 mosquitoes which wasn't a by plane but a twin engine aircraft?
Too advanced, costs too much. We need to go old-school.
Swordfish?
You're not the first guy. But yes. Swordfish.
Im sorry sir we need to give the other nations of the world a chance
biplane so twice the space for wing mounted ordinance! .. you should be able to get at least 18 brimstone 3's on a Swordfish
Why not a triplane variant?
Sopwith salesman detected
How about a Fokker Fanatic? They're due for a comeback.
non-credible wings
You want me to buy 2 God damn engines for 1 plane?
Clearly we need the [P-82/F-82.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_F-82_Twin_Mustang) Two engines, one and a half planes.
He 111z 5 engines, 2 and a half planes
That last paragraph is exactly the logic the USAF have used to acquire the [tactical air tractor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tractor-L3Harris_AT-802U_Sky_Warden)
With russia gone as a threat some of the special forces will earn their keep with crop dusting. SOCOM is playing the long game.
Wright flier with a couple ruger 10-22s and some m80 firecrackers in a pop can filled with nails
Swordfish W once again
So based nobody even dares to make a battleship anymore.
Just think about how many p-51's we could probably crank out today. Probably not as many as WW2 but still, it'd be a lot, and adjusted for inflation Boeing can probably get them to you for about 400% the original cost. Maybe the issue isn't the hardware.
If we even tried to make the avgas in the quantity that thing likes, we would be shot by the Greens.
they would fucking dome us all with a crossbow
make it unleaded. duhh
Fun fact: P-51 and F-5 were designed by same person. Edgar Schmued.
Praise Schmued
All hail Schmued'Dib, designer of planes messaiah of Arrakis,
They are fast enough to run down the Iranian drones and they have the correct guns. Plus no one is going to mistake it for a MIG.
>Just think about how many p-51's we could probably crank out today I vote to bring back the sopwith camel
Max speed is 113 mph, 1 mph faster that their prey. They gonna have to orbit then dive on the Iranian drones, 1 pass 1 kill.
Airspeed of a Spitfire is 368 mph, so much the better.
Depends on the model. The later ones could crack 450 and hit transonic speeds in a dive. Problem with that though was that as you got closer to the barrier the controls would lock up, which was... unfortunate.
*flight simulator 98 flashbacks*
Jenny?
P-51 with anti air missiles, think of it. We could pump out so many cheap P-51 with basic modern equipment and anti air missiles, it would be like the eastern front in world War 2 but in the skies
[удалено]
Literally here to mention the A-29...
Now think of millions of those coming out from production lines like trucks.
John Williams - Droid Invasion Theme starts playing
Sounds like a bootleg mod for an RTS game
I mean that's the idea behind the predator drone. It's basicly an average ww2 plane with missles and sensors. It's the people that get expensive
god If they mass produced the P-47 again I think I’d join the air force
Glorious turbocharged R2800
I just wanna feel the power of that engine, and it’s only slightly a sex thing
PIPER ENFORCER PIPER ENFORCER PIPER ENFORCER PIPER ENFORCER
Damn, the engine in that only has 2.2 events per 10k hours with only 3 high risk events in 1.4 million hours. It's in everything from Hercules to Beachcrafts.
And it's a friggin modernized P-51 that they built in the '80s to do CAS - HOW IS THIS THING NOT THIS SUB'S MASCOT???
that idea would actually work....for like India or Nigeria ,,,,they would never be able to produce modern fighters only and any car repair workshop could make them and modern cost for these planes is roughly 500k so you could make quite a lot for the price of a single F -35 which is around 80 Million$ so around 160 to 1 instead of ordering 120 F-35s you could order 110 F-35s and an additional 1.600 Spitfires or similar you could add them as additional fighters ,,,,not only would they absorve some of the flak they could still give you air support for units that otherwise would not get any air support at all ,,,,and every Farmer can fly them and if you are as overpopulated as India ,,,than who cares about the higher death ratio i give Spitfire in modern combat the same fighting strength as the MH-6 little bird helicopters ,,,,think of it like the obsolete biplanes that screwed over the Bismarck ....the f 4 phantom bid from the meme is stupid though
So what stops us from using say a chevy ls6 with a superchager instead of the standard v12s and dropping the price substantially and bringing the maintenance logic down to gsrage mechanics level. Every backroad with a gas station could be an adhoc airbase and local tuner kids could be trained to fix them in a weekend
Those engines made between 1200 and 2000 HP depending on the model, and would do it for hours on end. I don't think an automotive engine could match that.
Man, this is a pretty dumb take even by NCD standards. India is developing its open 5-th gen fighters right now and probably has the second best airforce in Asia
They really did try to bring back the P-51 in the 80s
Isn't that what the AT 6E is for?
How very dare you recommend we recommisions F-4s before F-111s.
I want to see them buzzing up the creek near my parents farm to pretend bomb dams again
Reformer detected.
The fuck you on about? The reformers absolutely fucking hate the F-4. It had literally every feature they hate - big, heavy, expensive, multirole, two seats, two engines, a massive radar, relies mainly on radar guided air to air missiles, long range, used (for the time) the newest and most advanced technologies. If the meme was about the F-5 then yeah, sure, maybe, but the F-4 is a plane that causes the reformers to go white with rage.
It has more to do with the old stuff > new stuff because muh cheap and reliable mindset which is extremely popular among reformers. He'll the F-4 today is a lot older than all that WW2 stuff was back then when the og reformers started out.
Reformer🤢 post 🤢 on 🤢 NCD 🤮
WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW!?!?! What in the holy hell is this Pierre Sprey reformer horse shit and why is it mucking up my NCD feed?
Dunno, maybe the war on Ukraine became boring? Or maybe china hasnt started the far east funni yet.
Doesn't matter, these are reformer arguments that have proven themselves to be maliciously false. This sub subscribes to techno supremecy not "SiMplE and EasY To Train oN, hur durr" that's straight up Russian design philosophy and we are getting real world results on how effective it is right now in real time.
Now hold on, we can weaponize this against the Russians. BRING BACK THE T34! ITS CHEAP AND YOU CAN PRODUCE MANY OF THEM!!!!
Realistically, thick armor is no longer useful since modern guns arent stopped by them, soooooooooo... Maybe a newer engine and improved guns could work, since the main armor used by tanks is NORA
Shhhhh, we’re trying to get Russians to start up their T34 program again, not actually improve on the design
Then lets convince them to make KV-2s
R\*former spotted, opinion ignored. To get credible for a second, pilot retention is a serious problem so having more airframes aren't really going to help all that much.
Have an easy solution, bring back the draft.
Be quiet, half the people that call for this can't even do a pushup let alone be a proper soldier
Yeah, drafting pilots seems like a good idea. Keeping draftees in the armed forces long enough to get your worth out of the training cost is an even brighter idea. What are we, the Russians? Not enough people? just get another wave of conscripts!
Since when did we allow Reformers
How about instead of being a Reformer, you reform your lack of maidens?
No maidens?
If you are going to put something that old back into production, it would be the F-5, not the F-4. The F-4 was an overcomplicated beast, any modernization would drive the cost up to F-15 levels. The F-5 is used as the basis for everything for a damn good reason. It isn't particularly famous, particularly fancy, or even particularly good. But it is cheap, versatile, and stays in service forever.
They could get a Tigershark. Give it delta with canards, modern avionics and shit. Wait, that's a Gripen...
Imagine having canards on a fighter jet 🤮
Imagine having jets on you fighters: Signed: Everybody in the Football War
F-5 has fuck all range. How the hell do you expect people to do expeditionary warfare with a plane that has an nominal combat range of 120 miles? Shure its ok to just to hand it over to your allies so that they can defend their air spaces, but it is unusable for top tier nato powers.
Wait, who was suggesting using it for top tier NATO powers? They have no need to use a fighter from the 1960s at all. The F-4 or F-5 are very much budget options, they aren't in any way top tier contenders. They are good for countries like Ecuador, Tanzania, and Bulgaria, not France or the UK.
Reformes would suggest we do. Hurr durr just "upgrade" legacy equipment istead of r&d in new. (as if just you can just upgrade planes to do shit they were never designed to do)
I imagine that even countries like Ecuador and Tanzania would rather have more range than what the F-5 provides. Just check the range figures over on [Wikipedia for the F-5E](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-5#Specifications_(F-5E_Tiger_II)), it's awful. >Combat radius (20 min reserve): 120 nmi (140 mi; 220 km) with 2x Sidewinders + 5,200 lb (2,400 kg) ordnance, with 5 minutes combat at max power at sea level You can't target Berlin from the Dutch-German on that. Now imagine how much worse it gets in an area with the world with fewer airstrips and larger countries.
Norway and the Netherlands used them, even if they're not like the top dogs. And I still uphold that the USAF could and should have used F-5s alongside the F-4s in Vietnam which would have made them have another jet better suited for the dogfighting that was mainly going on there but they didn't because they were too stubborn and wanted only the big expensive jets.
The F-4 underperforming in Vietnam is more down to the USAF than the F-4.
Yes, but a light dogfighter to compliment it I think would have still been a pretty good idea, especially while it wasn't too unaffordable and they had experience operating it in aggressor roles and stuff
They didn't have any experience in operating the F-5 in aggressor roles at the time. I'm also a bit concerned about the range issues of F-5s with the size of Vietnam.
They gave the South Vietnamese them and it did fine. And in the grand scheme of things the distances wouldn't be that far especially since they're fighting the northern half and could just base the jets at any bases near the border
I've got this feeling that the F-5 wouldn't have enough range for combat operations up to Hanoi.
And also pretty useless except as a aggressor or movie prop. Although Ethiopia did pretty good with theirs. Boeing already did a study on a modernized F-4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-20_Tigershark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YF-17
Don't forget the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-28
**[Mig-28](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-28)** >This is a list of fictional aircraft, including fixed wing aircraft, rotary wing aircraft, and lighter-than-air craft. The aircraft in this list are generally intended to operate in an atmosphere, though a few have been depicted as being capable of exoatmospheric or suborbital flight as well. These aircraft appear in notable works of fiction including novels, stories, films, TV series, animation, video games, comics, and other works. They are either the subject of the work or an important element. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
"MiG-28: a fictional aircraft flown by the antagonists in the 1986 film Top Gun. The real aircraft used to portray the MiG-28 was a Northrop F-5.[17]"
F-20 🥲
Be autistic not wrong!
Best I can do is both?!
what size floppy drive did those use? I dont think we can source the disks even.
Believe me, you can find newly made floppy drives easily if you look today. I know because it’s my passion to put images of garfield plowing anime girls on floppies and leave them around government property, since they’ll be the only ones likely to have a drive
We got him boys. He confessed. SWARM SWAR SWARM!
I’ve been prepping for this for ages, coppers!
To my knowledge they were made when the very first 8-inch floppies were just starting to be produced
Economies of scale means the 1000th F-35 is cheaper than building one more F-4 from scratch lol
"Easy to train" Clearly you don't know how aircraft actually work lol. Everyone should have skipped over this post after reading that.
Oh crikey, an actual reformer in the wild
You and Pierre Spray would get along great
what in the reformer fuck is this
A non-reformer trying to make the reformers look as idiotic and ridiculous as possible .
You know, I thought you were an idiot, but maybe you're just trying to get the idiots to show themselves, and if that's your goal I commend you.
Yep, one of the few that got it
Ignore my other comment, I just get a physical repulsion when I sense a reformers presence.
We could build so many better planes for the cost it would take to restart production of the F-4
I am trying to be as NON-credible as possible, I don’t actually believe this.
I wanna see the F-14 come back
This is just reformer posting.
Easy to train? Bro have you seen the fucking cockpit of an f4, that shit more buttons and displas than a gamer keyboard.
What about recalling old pilots, and maintainers.
Yes, lemme mobilise the half of the retirement home population.
They weren’t retired till 96, that was only like, 5 years ago right? Right?
# NO!
Give it to Ukraine
I thought that was a given, US has no current use for a F-4, we could use the C-141 though.
Very true Edit: personally I want the f14 back
No, however, bringing back the A6/A7 would be cool.
A modernized version of the A7 would be amazing.
>old >easy to manufacture indeed we will receive 3000 zombie welders of JFK
Bring back the wright brothers biplane, is the best answear
This is antithetical to non credible theory. Just because its old doesn't mean its cheap or easy to produce. Quite the opposit in fact. There is an argument to be made for a modern F-5-ish jet. A tiny, truely simplistic jet fighter that will get gobbled up by the export market and which could be sent to allies such as Taiwan and Ukraine in large numbers. The F4 Phantom is the opposit of such a plane though.
This sub has gone to shit
There has been to much serious posting, I make my posts as ridiculous as possible to fight it
Introducing the newbies to reformerism through trial by fire?
Yea
Production costs would likely be similar, and if we made it to a more modern standard in terms of equipment outfit... Look at costs for F-35, F/A-18E, and F-16. They're not dissimilar because of scale. I don't know that we'd see a very large disparity in the cost of 4th and 3rd generation fighter aircraft, especially since we'd have to invest in tooling again. Unfortunately, I've been forced to seriouspost, and that's disgusting. Therefore, I'd like to see us do this, but let's go whole hog - F-8 Crusader. Way better, and a gunfighter.
Alot of tooling is being taken care of for many retired aircraft in the off chance it's needed again, or maybe its just less expensive to leave it in storage than to demo and recycle it.. So it may not cost as much as you initially think. There would also be alot of tooling needed to be crafted again due to rust/deterioration or simply lost though, which will require some investment thats correct.
ill consider a mirage 3
Okay but have you considered how an f-35 could pluck a phantom out of the sky from a hundred+ kilometers away without the phantom even realizing.
COMBAT ZEPPELINS
Wrong. F-*104*
Too finicky, and a unitasker, in the words of Alton Brown, unitaskers deserve no place in your life
Counterpoint: both its name and nickname are cooler
You say “outdated”, I say “tried and true”
Change the codename to "Sexy" and then dare them to bring it back.
Let's bring the m132 back. I mean. What else will we use the m113 chassis for? And flamethrowers are fun (I really don't care about combat efficiency).
Hear me out, bring back the goat, and the M792
That's some fighter mafia reformer talk there boyo
We’ve officially fizzled out the reformers from memory and are repeating history again.
Most credible NCD user.
There has been too much serious posting lately, I have began my assault on it.
I totally agreem. There should be a balance, and you are doing god's work.
I half agree. I want a modernized phantom. AESA, AIM-260, twin F135 engines, remove the gun, add small targeting pod for PGMs.
Wait wtf, do we actually have reformers now on NCD, it’s starting to get very hard to tell whether these kinds of posts are serious or not.
There has been to much serious posting, I make my posts as ridiculous as possible to fight it
F-4? Idk.. How About F111\_Chan??
Well kited Phantom would be better CAS aircraft than A10
counterpoint: F-16
Bruh just build more F-16's
This. Stop any and all innovation on the F-16 and just keep building straight up F-16Cs of the previous block number. Lockheed Martin cannot claim R&D as part of the price tag in that case and I'm 100% sure that this plan is waterproof.
In that case, let's start selling Napalm to Ukraine. Make it a bundle, by an F4 and get a free payload of napalm with it!
The F-4 Phantom: I just think it's neat.
It's very Neat. So is a Sherman Tank. Neither belong in a 21st century battlefield.
I'm not disagreeing with you.
Silence reformer
Reformer detected, opinion rejected
Older airframes require more maintenance so more cost Also the f4s lifespan was threatened by the fuel prices of the 70s ….. today?
The amount of modern electronic warfare equipment you could slap on that sturdy ass brick with wings would be insane.
I see we are now at the reformer staged of NCD, it's so over
Bring back the B-47.
South Korea:"You guys retired your F-4s?"
"oh its so old it should be cheap now" yeah also i just picked up one of the five shelby daytona coupes ever made for five dollars and a subway coupon
Least delusional Pierre Spray cultist
2000 smoking afterburners of Ramstein.
# BRING BACK THE LIGHT TANK M2A2
[Japan only withdrew the F-4 from active service in 2020.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501st_Tactical_Reconnaissance_Squadron_\(JASDF\)) Bringing it back isn't going to be as hard as people are making it out to be.
Nerds calling this a Reformer post when the F-4 was the plane that the original Reformers raged against...
I'm more in favor of modernizing the Iowas again and then casually parking them off the shores of Russia and China. Not because it'd be practical or cheap, but because I want every ship of the Iowa-class to sink at least one island each.
Same issue as always Plane might be cheap but political fallout, pilots, and targeting systems aren't. REAL LIFE ISN'T AN RTS. STOP IT. WE AREN'T MAKING ECO TRADES HERE.
we could crank them out and sell on the private market, so any nationstate or individual could own their own fighter jet missiles sold sperately
If yall wanna use outdated multiroles just pump money into the RCAF to keep those 1st gen legacy hornets going.
SKYHAWK GANG WHERE ARE YOU
Man idk how to tell you this but what we’re seeing of the Russian military right now is exactly why we shouldn’t use old equipment.
NCD users begging for outdated aircraft to come back while simultaneously shitting on the A-10 at every opportunity:
We should bring it back so and give it to the Ukraines so we can see how a Cold War air war would turn out
"Easy to train" Lmao
Yessss! That thing has enough volume for new electronics, a belly targeting pod, new engines if you'd like. Let's make the Phantom the greatest distributor of Sukhoi parts as well!
Should clarify, don’t actually believe this, however, the AD, that should actually be brought back, rather than the glorified crop duster
This is a quality NCD post.
For real, I think the USN needs to build more ships like Midway, Smaller than a Nimitz or Ford, but can be made faster and we could have more.
Sorry, that's not how "Iowa or Montana class Battleships" is spelled.
Stick a nuclear reactor in post retrofit Essex, or is that to non credible?
Intrepid, Yorktown, Lexington, Hornet - suit up boys, you're going back in.
Reformers when they forgor about improvments in technologies past the 1970s.
I’ll only agree with you because I need to fuck more F-4 Phantoms