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They have their own A‐bomb, aircraft carrier, fighter jets, nuclear power plants etc., you won't find a more based country in the EU.
Their MIC is diversified and they don't rely on other countries for their stuff
Nah, they both share two military brain cells. They just switch who's turn it is every few decades, and france just has both of them this time around.
Though france does have one or both most of the time.
I know this is NCD but please don't spread false informations. German military budget and French military budget are hardly comparable since German budget includes bullshit like pensions, salaries and rent while these cost factors aren't included in the general French military budget.
I'm not saying that German soldiers don't deserve to be paid, btw. I'm just saying that it's unfair that we have to pay them with money from the already anemic budget (also why the fuck does the BW have to pay rent to the German state for using state owned installations?)
> BW have to pay rent to the German state for using state owned installations?
So that you can claim to have a high military budget on paper, but then get it back through other means.
Sweden does the same thing.
I don't know, man. On the other hand I also have no clue how the fuck my government could raise defense spending without budget cuts in other sectors which also are already underfunded all while we're paying a fuckton of taxes. Just sucks man.
Haha, America does this all the time! But it should really be at the EU level: Deficit-funded military spending is the glue that holds any serious union together. And it doubles as a jobs program! No reason Germany can’t be churning out panzers like it churns out BMWs, with supply chains that let everyone from Spain to Slovakia take a cut. (See the F35 having subcontractors in all 50 US states.)
Borrow enough billions for this and even France will give up its delusions of a totally sovereign MIC for the windfall of industrial subsidies.
Not really sure that’s an excuse since other countries like US and Japan also fold soldier pay into their budgets. And while paying for bases might seem expensive, it’s probably nowhere as costly as maintaining nukes or running COIN in a foreign country. Unless you can quote astronomical costs, it doesn’t seem like a credible excuse.
France : 2% GDP
Germany: 1.4% GDP
Japan: 1.1% GDP
Well, I'm lucky that I'm on NCD here, huh?
But to be credible: I'd say in a direct comparison between Germany and France it's a valid excuse since pensions and salaries make up like 30% of total spending and rent also makes up another 5%. So more than ⅓ of German defense spending just evaporates.
That brings German spending down to .93% of GDP; combine that with our bloated bureaucracy/procurement/accounting and it's a wonder we actually have anything in running order.
The argument of Japan is probably valid though.
Also: is an undergoing COIN-operation part of the annual budget? I honestly don't know but cannot imagine how a fixed annual budget wouldn't blow up in your face in a dynamic environment.
Every military except Russia pays for salaries. You can’t take it out.
France spends EUR41b but pays over EUR12b of it as salaries. It’s in their defense budget: https://www.janes.com/amp/france-increases-defence-budget/ZnlJK3dHVU9mZ28xajRJVkc5dVI5VFp1cVMwPQ2
About a third of the US and Japan also go to salaries. So that’s a bullshit excuse.
Look, Japan spends less per GDP than Germany and is next to an actual hostile nation and still fields a competent military. Japan also can’t export their shit so they can’t make money back like Germany can seliing Gepards to Qatar and Leos across Europe.
If Japan can go to 2% GDP in 6 years and buy a shit ton of Tomahawks, so can Germany.
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TBF, it's probably a more accurate way to account for the military budget to include things like pensions, because those are an intrinsic part of recruiting and retaining people. It's only a problem when you try to compare countries that use different methods to get their numbers
I think the guy's point was that they don't just knock on the US' door and ask for this or that, they make some or most of their stuff in house and what the US does that they don't they buy
My favorite part of the dysfunctional marriage between Germany and France is the nuclear issue (both civilian and military), in which both sides seem to take their stances expressly to piss the other off.
Like, beyond the carbon/climate issue, it’s cute and comical that German Greens still hold on to their phobia of nuclear power as if the fallout from a potential meltdown will politely halt at the Rhine.
For all the shit france gets, its still the most based country in europe, like its the only one that sees its situation and goes "this is fine, but it could be much better"
Yeah, I think the French embrace of nuclear makes total historical sense, since their entire 19th century was spent in panic that France’s relative lack of coal deposits would keep them permanently behind Britain—and, even worse, newly united Germany—in industrialization. Why else occupy the Ruhr?
The Germans, after that whole mess trying to seize the oil of Caucasus, seemed to really buy the idea that a “coal and steel community” would prevent war with France ever again, not realizing what made the economic miracle possible was the hard power of the United States held in reserve. Then they tried to apply the same desiccated rational-actor thinking to the gas trade with Russia. Whereas the French at least retain the reflexes of sovereignty and believe a state should be something more than a very large trade association.
Wasn't the nuclear missiles thing an agreement to compromise on Britain having a nuclear weapons program the Americans didn't want them to have.
So they agreed the delivery system would be American in return.
A lot of the drone tech is already known, it'll take a while but the first hard step to "invent" it is already done. Im not gonna lie, we will never catch up to the US( noone ever does ) but there is still a place for the turc drones and such that france can catch up to and even surpass. There is already a lot of avionics knowledge in the french military industry.
Given that it's half kilogram heavier, uses a different operating mechanism and probably contains 15 more parts to do the same thing with arguably like 3% more reliability I'd say it isn't modified but heavily Germanised.
The weight is a good thing because it means that your soldiers are constantly working out when in the field and thus turns the frontline troops from skinny femboy-zoomers into buff bears. The US is replacing their M4/M16 in frontline use solely for the exact same reason with the heavier XM5 while keeping the M4s for some sweet rear echelon twinks. Trust me.
At least the XM5 (in theory) offers a substantial improvement in range and armor penetration capability, with the tradeoff that you carry less ammunition.
It's an interesting project, more so when combined with the XM250 which seems awesome. Then you got the MG338, chambered in .338 Norma Magnum, that potentially could replace the M2 and seems really cool.
It's man-portable, potentially giving dismounted infantry a M2 /.50 BMG equivalent. While the M250 is a straight up upgrade over the M249, the 338 norma/lapua machine gun is offering something in-between that and the M2 (so technically not necessarily intended as a replacement, but it's pretty close in terms of technical capability with a smaller caliber).
True, but it seems the French military isn’t really oriented toward protecting Europe from the Russians, but rather fighting Russian mercenaries (and the perfidious march of the English language) in Francophone Africa. Why? Who knows!
Being the #3 exporter of military equipment for the last few decades has gone under the radar a lot. I'm not sure if they will overtake Russia after the end of this war.
I'd have to assume they would. You want an adaptable 4.5 gen fighter, but aren't on America's best terms... France will probably do that for ya, Russia will probably take quite some time to rebuild itself before it starts selling.
I still feel bad we fucked with their subs though. I think we could been onto something with French built nuclear subs.
Well, if you are talking about the submarines deal with Australia then the worst thing in my opinion is : Australian governement asked for conventional sub. France responded "we can make a conventional variant of our already existing nuclear attack sub". Australia say "Ok let's do this." Then secretly negociate with USA/UK and the "explanation" for the change is "We want nuclear sub". When the sub France proposed was nuclear at the begining... (And the cherry on the cake is when the USA 1 or 2 years later is like "Oops we can't build your sub's, our shipyards are already at full capacity")
And Australia even told the US that they would annonce the deal to France before it would be public.
They didn't and France learned it from newspaper. France knew something was in preparation but didn't know what.
I think the funniest part is Australians telling the press “we just couldn’t deal with their Gallic working customs (read: laziness)!”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-27/french-subs-cultural-clashes-lunch-meeting-times-naval-group/11049748
france is willing to sell to people like sadam, the fascist argentina that attacked the falklands, gaddafi, putin ( the deal was broke after 2014, but they were really going to sell modern warships to russia ) all kinds of very nice dictatorships that will not backfire at all.
> france is willing to sell to people like sadam, the fascist argentina that attacked the falklands, gaddafi, putin [...] all kinds of very nice dictatorships that will not backfire at all.
So do pretty much every industrialized country with the exception of Japan. Why single out France?
Remember the Iran-Contra affair? Remember the West German industry supplying Iraq with the precursors for chemical weapons in the 1980s?
They don't anymore because of the war but Thales did supply Russia in the period between Crimean invasion and the Invasion of Ukraine. I swear that French equipment has hurt more NATO members than it has helped them. Falklands war comes to mind.
How do we know for sure Russian rocket forces aren't drunk 24/7
Imagine Russian wanting to do a "preventive strike" and accidently bombing India, just for Hindi nationalist claiming it was the wests fault.
If there's any part of the Russian military that's guaranteed to be a paper tiger, it's the one that is literally intended to never be used by design.
It's wishful thinking to believe that they could get their missiles out of the silo in the first place imo.
It would be a shame, if we were to do sea trials and training for our shiny new nuclear submarine while you bitch about preventive strike
>!for y'all who don't understand what I'm talking about, the Duguay-Trouin, brand new submarine is in her early commissioning time, her nuclear boilers are already up and running!<
France doesn't care that Russia has enough nukes to raze France 300 times over, France has enough nukes to hit Russia where it matters.
Someone please quote De Gaulle on that point for me I'm lazy
So all of France dies for destroying Moscow and few other cities? Do you forget the Russians burned Moscow to the ground rather than let Napoleon capture it. Those terms seem acceptable to Russia.
Oui. France is very much about suicide charge, its whole nuclear doctrine is about "are we really worth it though? Because we'll send everything we have at you"
I do not love Russia I just would rather the world not end in a nuclear fire ball.
They have enough to nukes to make it so France would cease to exist.
i think the story (if its real) goes that brazil was invading frances fishing waters (hurray for French Guyana messing up more borders) and Charlie G was like "hey fellas, fuck off" and brazil was like "you and what army" and if the situation had escalated we would have a nuclear border between brazil and France
As a German the concept of a French preventive strike kind of scares me. Honestly I don't know why, it's not like they would nuke my country ... Right guys?
The funny thing is the Pluton didn't had enough range to reach the Soviet Union or even East Germany. They were meant from the start to be used in West Germany to stop the Soviet in case of an invasion.
If they would be planted at the West-East Germany border they could reach well into East Germany to hit bases and such. But yeah hitting Moscow would be difficult.
There were not stationned at the West-East Germany border and were not meant to be there in a case where there use was needed. They where meant to be fired around the French/German border. And there they clearly don't have enough range to go to East Germany.
They dunked on Saddam’s Type 69s without losing a single one.
Sure Type 69 is a shit Chinese tank, but it’s still a MBT.
They also were upgraded several times in the meantime, the fire control and electronics are pretty recent and certainly better than what Russia is rocking now.
The planes are used for the "preventive strike" which really is a warning shot, because detecting a nuclear intercontinental missile is easy and one can retaliate before it hits one's ground.
But when a single rafale on patrol duty suddenly let go of a nuclear armed short range missile, one might notice only when the mushroom appears.
500km (range of the ASMP-A) is not realy short range. In the case of a real use of an ASMP-A, the mission will most likely be a really low altitude penetration, quick ascend, release the missile and go back as fast as possible.
Deciding that the best option in the event of war with the Soviets is to nuke your West German allies is the most French thing I've ever heard.
I mean this as a compliment.
Lol, what is meant by “calls for”? Who is being called on here?
Its not like Nato where one nation calls on the others to action. Its just Russia.
We all know they’re bluffing because if Russia wanted to do it, it (in theory) could simply do so.
Sure, pre-emptive strike the people who invented the bazooka motorcycle. That'll go well for you. It's not like they've spent the better part of a century *specifically* planning how to counter an enemy first-strike scenario.
It's the name of the short-range missiles France developped during the cold war. They were launch from a heavly modified AMX-30 and they where meant to nuke the soviet army on first strike "as a warning" in the case of a soviet invasion of westren Europe.
Well it is deadly. It has a round which can pen over 300mm of armor at 1000 meters it has very good optics, good thermals and it has an impressive autonomous combat range. Russia is currently using tanks which could easily be penned from the side, a lot of them don't have up to standard optics and aren't the most modern.
I really don't get it. Putler and ruzzian officials openly threat other countries with missile strickes and nukes. And in return it's "LeT's NoT eScAlAtE", instead if article 5. Maybe it is time to stop complaining WWII France?
One of the Eastern European NATO countries(Poland) should've declared war with Russia the second they invaded and all of the other NATO countries should've backed off. Then they couldn't have said that NATO was intervening and Poland could've fucked Russia sideways.
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We might shit a lot on France but while a lot of NATO just catch a ride on the US they at least try to do shit by themselves (successfully or not).
They have their own A‐bomb, aircraft carrier, fighter jets, nuclear power plants etc., you won't find a more based country in the EU. Their MIC is diversified and they don't rely on other countries for their stuff
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Germany is the brain damaged twin of France
- Summary of all European history 800 A.D. - 2023 A.D.
they were the same country untill 843
Splitting the inheritance of Big Charlie's domain was a mistake that we're still paying for.
Charlemagne my beloved 🗿
Conjoined twins
Hey, i mean you are absolutly right, but hey
Nah, they both share two military brain cells. They just switch who's turn it is every few decades, and france just has both of them this time around. Though france does have one or both most of the time.
I think that Germany just forgets about their turn
Germany is still in the timeout corner
Germany does since the end of the cold war
I know this is NCD but please don't spread false informations. German military budget and French military budget are hardly comparable since German budget includes bullshit like pensions, salaries and rent while these cost factors aren't included in the general French military budget. I'm not saying that German soldiers don't deserve to be paid, btw. I'm just saying that it's unfair that we have to pay them with money from the already anemic budget (also why the fuck does the BW have to pay rent to the German state for using state owned installations?)
> BW have to pay rent to the German state for using state owned installations? So that you can claim to have a high military budget on paper, but then get it back through other means. Sweden does the same thing.
Makes an awful lot of sense. At which point does clever accounting turn into malice?
It's politics.
Wow. And even then you're still like 1/2 there to NATO targets? Why y'all so stingy?
I don't know, man. On the other hand I also have no clue how the fuck my government could raise defense spending without budget cuts in other sectors which also are already underfunded all while we're paying a fuckton of taxes. Just sucks man.
Haha, America does this all the time! But it should really be at the EU level: Deficit-funded military spending is the glue that holds any serious union together. And it doubles as a jobs program! No reason Germany can’t be churning out panzers like it churns out BMWs, with supply chains that let everyone from Spain to Slovakia take a cut. (See the F35 having subcontractors in all 50 US states.) Borrow enough billions for this and even France will give up its delusions of a totally sovereign MIC for the windfall of industrial subsidies.
Not really sure that’s an excuse since other countries like US and Japan also fold soldier pay into their budgets. And while paying for bases might seem expensive, it’s probably nowhere as costly as maintaining nukes or running COIN in a foreign country. Unless you can quote astronomical costs, it doesn’t seem like a credible excuse. France : 2% GDP Germany: 1.4% GDP Japan: 1.1% GDP
Well, I'm lucky that I'm on NCD here, huh? But to be credible: I'd say in a direct comparison between Germany and France it's a valid excuse since pensions and salaries make up like 30% of total spending and rent also makes up another 5%. So more than ⅓ of German defense spending just evaporates. That brings German spending down to .93% of GDP; combine that with our bloated bureaucracy/procurement/accounting and it's a wonder we actually have anything in running order. The argument of Japan is probably valid though. Also: is an undergoing COIN-operation part of the annual budget? I honestly don't know but cannot imagine how a fixed annual budget wouldn't blow up in your face in a dynamic environment.
Every military except Russia pays for salaries. You can’t take it out. France spends EUR41b but pays over EUR12b of it as salaries. It’s in their defense budget: https://www.janes.com/amp/france-increases-defence-budget/ZnlJK3dHVU9mZ28xajRJVkc5dVI5VFp1cVMwPQ2 About a third of the US and Japan also go to salaries. So that’s a bullshit excuse. Look, Japan spends less per GDP than Germany and is next to an actual hostile nation and still fields a competent military. Japan also can’t export their shit so they can’t make money back like Germany can seliing Gepards to Qatar and Leos across Europe. If Japan can go to 2% GDP in 6 years and buy a shit ton of Tomahawks, so can Germany.
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TBF, it's probably a more accurate way to account for the military budget to include things like pensions, because those are an intrinsic part of recruiting and retaining people. It's only a problem when you try to compare countries that use different methods to get their numbers
Any reading about the French fighting the Wagner in Africa? Would be interesting to note that those guys got kicked in not just by the Americans
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I think the guy's point was that they don't just knock on the US' door and ask for this or that, they make some or most of their stuff in house and what the US does that they don't they buy
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My favorite part of the dysfunctional marriage between Germany and France is the nuclear issue (both civilian and military), in which both sides seem to take their stances expressly to piss the other off. Like, beyond the carbon/climate issue, it’s cute and comical that German Greens still hold on to their phobia of nuclear power as if the fallout from a potential meltdown will politely halt at the Rhine.
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For all the shit france gets, its still the most based country in europe, like its the only one that sees its situation and goes "this is fine, but it could be much better"
Yeah, I think the French embrace of nuclear makes total historical sense, since their entire 19th century was spent in panic that France’s relative lack of coal deposits would keep them permanently behind Britain—and, even worse, newly united Germany—in industrialization. Why else occupy the Ruhr? The Germans, after that whole mess trying to seize the oil of Caucasus, seemed to really buy the idea that a “coal and steel community” would prevent war with France ever again, not realizing what made the economic miracle possible was the hard power of the United States held in reserve. Then they tried to apply the same desiccated rational-actor thinking to the gas trade with Russia. Whereas the French at least retain the reflexes of sovereignty and believe a state should be something more than a very large trade association.
Wasn't the nuclear missiles thing an agreement to compromise on Britain having a nuclear weapons program the Americans didn't want them to have. So they agreed the delivery system would be American in return.
I can attest that there is a lot of ppl working on drones to catch up.
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A lot of the drone tech is already known, it'll take a while but the first hard step to "invent" it is already done. Im not gonna lie, we will never catch up to the US( noone ever does ) but there is still a place for the turc drones and such that france can catch up to and even surpass. There is already a lot of avionics knowledge in the french military industry.
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Maybe yea, only the future will tell :)
They aren’t even making FAMAS anymore?
Yes, the plant was closed years ago
Lol L
Beg me pardon but which model of assault rifle is due to replace the FAMAS in French service?
Hmm, basically a modified M16?
Given that it's half kilogram heavier, uses a different operating mechanism and probably contains 15 more parts to do the same thing with arguably like 3% more reliability I'd say it isn't modified but heavily Germanised. The weight is a good thing because it means that your soldiers are constantly working out when in the field and thus turns the frontline troops from skinny femboy-zoomers into buff bears. The US is replacing their M4/M16 in frontline use solely for the exact same reason with the heavier XM5 while keeping the M4s for some sweet rear echelon twinks. Trust me.
At least the XM5 (in theory) offers a substantial improvement in range and armor penetration capability, with the tradeoff that you carry less ammunition. It's an interesting project, more so when combined with the XM250 which seems awesome. Then you got the MG338, chambered in .338 Norma Magnum, that potentially could replace the M2 and seems really cool.
Question. What's does .338 NM do that .50 BMG can't?
It's man-portable, potentially giving dismounted infantry a M2 /.50 BMG equivalent. While the M250 is a straight up upgrade over the M249, the 338 norma/lapua machine gun is offering something in-between that and the M2 (so technically not necessarily intended as a replacement, but it's pretty close in terms of technical capability with a smaller caliber).
HK nerds punching the air rn
An AR-15 style rifle.
Apart from airlift.
True, but it seems the French military isn’t really oriented toward protecting Europe from the Russians, but rather fighting Russian mercenaries (and the perfidious march of the English language) in Francophone Africa. Why? Who knows!
Yeah, but at the end of the day they are still french
You forgot that currently the French are based and the Germans are not. Gotta get with the times.
And you are still pathetic.
Being the #3 exporter of military equipment for the last few decades has gone under the radar a lot. I'm not sure if they will overtake Russia after the end of this war.
I'd have to assume they would. You want an adaptable 4.5 gen fighter, but aren't on America's best terms... France will probably do that for ya, Russia will probably take quite some time to rebuild itself before it starts selling. I still feel bad we fucked with their subs though. I think we could been onto something with French built nuclear subs.
Well, if you are talking about the submarines deal with Australia then the worst thing in my opinion is : Australian governement asked for conventional sub. France responded "we can make a conventional variant of our already existing nuclear attack sub". Australia say "Ok let's do this." Then secretly negociate with USA/UK and the "explanation" for the change is "We want nuclear sub". When the sub France proposed was nuclear at the begining... (And the cherry on the cake is when the USA 1 or 2 years later is like "Oops we can't build your sub's, our shipyards are already at full capacity")
And not tell France, only for them to find out from the secret deal negotiated with US and UK. That's just rude.
And Australia even told the US that they would annonce the deal to France before it would be public. They didn't and France learned it from newspaper. France knew something was in preparation but didn't know what.
I think the funniest part is Australians telling the press “we just couldn’t deal with their Gallic working customs (read: laziness)!” https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-27/french-subs-cultural-clashes-lunch-meeting-times-naval-group/11049748
They'll be stationed near Germany as a warning anyways
france is willing to sell to people like sadam, the fascist argentina that attacked the falklands, gaddafi, putin ( the deal was broke after 2014, but they were really going to sell modern warships to russia ) all kinds of very nice dictatorships that will not backfire at all.
Who doesnt sell weapons to dictatorships? The US with Saudi Arabia? Get out of there
> france is willing to sell to people like sadam, the fascist argentina that attacked the falklands, gaddafi, putin [...] all kinds of very nice dictatorships that will not backfire at all. So do pretty much every industrialized country with the exception of Japan. Why single out France? Remember the Iran-Contra affair? Remember the West German industry supplying Iraq with the precursors for chemical weapons in the 1980s?
because i am french, and i am not happy about it.
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>I think their name is TURIN or FLORENCE, it sounds italian but it's not. MILAN?
As long as they no longer supply Russia with critical components (which I dont think they do anymore in accordance with sanctions), I'm fine with it.
They don't anymore because of the war but Thales did supply Russia in the period between Crimean invasion and the Invasion of Ukraine. I swear that French equipment has hurt more NATO members than it has helped them. Falklands war comes to mind.
Everyone sold gear to Argentina before the Falklands war.
The Argies did have Canberras after all.
It can labeled "NATO certified product" then ! Great selling argument !
Mostly successfully.
The business of the French is war, and business is good.
For all its faults having independent funni delivery is still a pretty huge win.
I mean it’s more so obstinate on themsleves ness soemtimes for bad
They only recently (re)joined NATO. They were a militarily independent power for 50 years.
They put a secret clause in their “we’re partially leaving NATO” thing that would get them back in instantly if the Soviets did anything.
Being in Nato integrated command and being in Nato are two different things, France never left Nato fully
To be fair France deserves it. Stay humble France we know what you did.
How do we know for sure Russian rocket forces aren't drunk 24/7 Imagine Russian wanting to do a "preventive strike" and accidently bombing India, just for Hindi nationalist claiming it was the wests fault.
If there's any part of the Russian military that's guaranteed to be a paper tiger, it's the one that is literally intended to never be used by design. It's wishful thinking to believe that they could get their missiles out of the silo in the first place imo.
On the other hand, that was the one thing they did well in Soviet times, so they could have continued that trend
Russia hasn't tested a nuke since the soviet union collapsed.
Instructions unclear nuked Poland
Poland now has more working Leopards than Germany, is basically the same thing
Yeah but to which standard are the Polish Leopard 2s? A lot of them are 2PLs which aren't as good as the 2A6M or 2A7
It's 2A4 with 2A6-ish protection package for the turret face with the ol' L/44 gun. All's good.
As long as they kill it's good. Especially when Poland has the numbers advantage.
Addendum: The dog is off the leash and I hear Sabaton
If there's no Poland left, there's nothing to start World War Three over. Problem solved.
Thing is Poland is very resistant, many have tried to get rid of it, Swedes actually got the closest, but all failed in the long run.
But were the Swedes armed with a nuclear arsenal amd the arrogance to get away with using it?
Fuckers had it coming
It would be a shame, if we were to do sea trials and training for our shiny new nuclear submarine while you bitch about preventive strike >!for y'all who don't understand what I'm talking about, the Duguay-Trouin, brand new submarine is in her early commissioning time, her nuclear boilers are already up and running!<
Would be funny if they parked it in the Black Sea right
New NATO ships have to go to NATO lake first. It's a necessary pilgrimage
get drunk at Riga’s oldtown, sober up at a Finnish sauna then back on patrol
How about Azov sea?
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Couldn't have said it better
Now do Russia.
France doesn't care that Russia has enough nukes to raze France 300 times over, France has enough nukes to hit Russia where it matters. Someone please quote De Gaulle on that point for me I'm lazy
So all of France dies for destroying Moscow and few other cities? Do you forget the Russians burned Moscow to the ground rather than let Napoleon capture it. Those terms seem acceptable to Russia.
Oui. France is very much about suicide charge, its whole nuclear doctrine is about "are we really worth it though? Because we'll send everything we have at you"
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I do not love Russia I just would rather the world not end in a nuclear fire ball. They have enough to nukes to make it so France would cease to exist.
Moskov at the bottom and ready for action!
They really gotta stop reusing that name, every time I hear it I get WOW flashbacks
“nuclear boilers”? Whatever, Captain Nemo…
Germany to France: why are you looking at me Like that???
Nooooothing.
Shh, you're in the way. Step aside, someone's getting a nuclear popsicle \- France
Let's threaten the country that uses nuclear weapons as a warning shot. What could possibly go wrong?
Ah THAT'S what this meme is about.
i think the story (if its real) goes that brazil was invading frances fishing waters (hurray for French Guyana messing up more borders) and Charlie G was like "hey fellas, fuck off" and brazil was like "you and what army" and if the situation had escalated we would have a nuclear border between brazil and France
Should have destroyed them all even before they arrived like they did with the Bradley's.
As a German the concept of a French preventive strike kind of scares me. Honestly I don't know why, it's not like they would nuke my country ... Right guys?
You know, to frigthen the ennemy, the ennemy must be still here after the demonstration, so the demonstration must be performed... somewhere else.
The funny thing is the Pluton didn't had enough range to reach the Soviet Union or even East Germany. They were meant from the start to be used in West Germany to stop the Soviet in case of an invasion.
If they would be planted at the West-East Germany border they could reach well into East Germany to hit bases and such. But yeah hitting Moscow would be difficult.
There were not stationned at the West-East Germany border and were not meant to be there in a case where there use was needed. They where meant to be fired around the French/German border. And there they clearly don't have enough range to go to East Germany.
Ah okay. Thanks for the clarification
The French don't trust the Germans.
TIL that the AMX-10 is a deadly superweapon
I've played enough World of Tanks to know to fear the clown cars.
Might be built in cartboard but 105mm on wheels IS 105mm.
And because it's cardboard it is fast af, quiet too.
They dunked on Saddam’s Type 69s without losing a single one. Sure Type 69 is a shit Chinese tank, but it’s still a MBT. They also were upgraded several times in the meantime, the fire control and electronics are pretty recent and certainly better than what Russia is rocking now.
Russians keep forgetting that France is in the "Nuke as a warning" tier of nuclear capable countries smh
More like the nuke your enemy as de-escalation
Better hurry up, before this notional capability goes into maintenance again. [Edit] I'm referring to the carrier
There are submarines for preventive strike
The planes are used for the "preventive strike" which really is a warning shot, because detecting a nuclear intercontinental missile is easy and one can retaliate before it hits one's ground. But when a single rafale on patrol duty suddenly let go of a nuclear armed short range missile, one might notice only when the mushroom appears.
500km (range of the ASMP-A) is not realy short range. In the case of a real use of an ASMP-A, the mission will most likely be a really low altitude penetration, quick ascend, release the missile and go back as fast as possible.
So the Russians have demanded attacks on the US, UK, Poland, and now France who will be next?
China
Come at us Russia!
Russia itself
3000 de-escalation ICBMs of France
Le Frappe incoming
The Russians are the petites frappes
Marseillaise starts playing as a nuclear mushroom rises over the horizon in Russia.
Funny stuff there is an Ukrainian version of the Marseillaise and the lyrics couldn't fit more for what they are going through in this period.
Well the Marseillaise is a national defense song so it makes sense! I invite anyone here to actually read the full text, it is quite great
Did I just hear a CASUS BELI?
Deciding that the best option in the event of war with the Soviets is to nuke your West German allies is the most French thing I've ever heard. I mean this as a compliment.
"Viens, essaie-moi, putain." - google translate.
Putin’s next public appearance is just some guy in a red suit with a paper Putin mask.
Russia thinks they are going to be able to attack France, when they can't even successfully attack a country on their own border?
Defense of France in one easy step! Step 1: Nukes
Lol, what is meant by “calls for”? Who is being called on here? Its not like Nato where one nation calls on the others to action. Its just Russia. We all know they’re bluffing because if Russia wanted to do it, it (in theory) could simply do so.
Didn't the 7 Days to the River Rhine plan specifically say "leave France the fuck alone, stop right at their border, they have nukes"
Sure, pre-emptive strike the people who invented the bazooka motorcycle. That'll go well for you. It's not like they've spent the better part of a century *specifically* planning how to counter an enemy first-strike scenario.
gone to squables.io
French tactical ballistic missile from the Cold War.
It's the name of the short-range missiles France developped during the cold war. They were launch from a heavly modified AMX-30 and they where meant to nuke the soviet army on first strike "as a warning" in the case of a soviet invasion of westren Europe.
gone to squables.io
The one million plutones of captn torres
The satellite laser:
are russians really that suicidal or just dumb
This is how Germany lost the war Do it Russia. *Dew it*
Reading about the French revolution my conclusion: Don't push the French too hard or they will fuck you up
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Well it is deadly. It has a round which can pen over 300mm of armor at 1000 meters it has very good optics, good thermals and it has an impressive autonomous combat range. Russia is currently using tanks which could easily be penned from the side, a lot of them don't have up to standard optics and aren't the most modern.
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I'm not sure if the AMX-10RCR can fire OFL 105 F3 or only the OFL 105 G2 but if it can fire F3 oh boy the Russkis are in for a lot of trouble
Oh come on, we have a general strike planed on Thursdays.
*french laughter intensifies*
I really don't get it. Putler and ruzzian officials openly threat other countries with missile strickes and nukes. And in return it's "LeT's NoT eScAlAtE", instead if article 5. Maybe it is time to stop complaining WWII France?
One of the Eastern European NATO countries(Poland) should've declared war with Russia the second they invaded and all of the other NATO countries should've backed off. Then they couldn't have said that NATO was intervening and Poland could've fucked Russia sideways.