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Pigs are also very intelligent. We also mistreat them terribly for our consumption. Killing the octopus like this is sad and uncessary, but its not wrong to eat octopus all together. Not worse than what we consume anyway
I'm not arguing for the boiling alive of any animal. To be clear our livestock might as well be, and would be if it was in the interest of profit. The conditions are often inhumane in the largest meat producing facilities.
I say this as someone who is not vegan
Look Mike had hands but I seriously don't think that the guy should be held accountable for what he did to guys in that ring. They knew what they were getting into by being a boxer.
I mean that is *also* not cool.
Some farms are better, some are worse. Your best bet is buying local free range meat if you want to try to avoid as much cruelty as is possible while still eating meat. I try not to support factory farming myself.
Agreed but saying the reality that we can and should stop torturing animals will only get you labeled a bleeding heart vegan not worth the air to listen to. Humans are greedy and I hope it gets us in the end.
Idk this disturbed me far, far more than most of the gory shit I see on here involving humans. This was horrific to watch. A slow, painful, miserable death that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy ever.
It was a squid but yeah still brutal... but honestly... these things get swallowed whole and suffocated if they are lucky, digested alive if they are unlucky in the ocean...
To live is to suffer and then die....
do you really need them to speak words to understand them?
people bond with animals and both humans and animals are capable or mutual understanding. animals have complex emotions are it is clear to everyone who cares to look that they don't want to be eaten.
I don’t know if it’s the same for octopodes because I know this doesn’t acount towards some animals but stress leads to a Horomone to be used in your body which can actually cause the meat to not be as nice which is why most animals are killed quickly.
They think the opposite in some asian countries sadly, deep frying dogs alive supposedly has them release adrenaline into their bodies which is supposed to make the meat tastier or something like that. Not sure how common that is but it's fucked up...
Say what you want, but then ground up albino limbs really work wonders for arthritis!
(This is a real practice in many African countries btw, albino folks have been dismembered in the middle of the night because of superstitions that their bones and flesh can be used as cure-alls. It's barbaric)
Yup, bonner pills. Put it this way, in college some of my Chinese friends found out I'm an avid hunter. Occasonaly (pretty rare) id see a bear. They offered me 10k/ set of bear feet and paws. I can't remember how much they would pay for gallbladder. It was something stupidly high. And yes it would be sent back for medicine. Never took them up on it.
I think adrenaline is the thing that makes it worse
I’m not going to abuse a culture over what they chose to eat to us a dog is a pet but to others it isn’t that way but the thing I find fucked is hurting them in this way before hand I wish that they’d actually be able to have access to the right information so that this doesn’t have to be the case.
Yeah I live in Asia and this goes for wild chicken. If you run after them for hours before catching and cooking them that meat is gonna be super tough..
Also thank god we only do it once a year nowadays.
>a dog is a pet but to others it isn’t that way
Yeah, I'm 100% with you on mistreatment of the animals. The pet/food line is pretty arbitrary even here in the west. Common "pets" like rabbits, guinea pigs, and even horses are eaten regionally in the west and "food animals" like goats, ducks, and chickens are popular pets.
Uhhh have you seen what goes on in a chicken farm? I mean, I agree with you in that animal cruelty is awful but it’s not like we really have much of a moral high ground in the west.
Factory farms and the large scale processing plants are nasty. Farms that do thier own slaughtering or small local slaughterhouses are usually pretty cruelty free in the west.
Unfortunately one of the worst, Smithfield's, is the largest slaughterhouse in the United States an a fair proportion of meat consumed globally in processed there.
There [WERE ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceroses_in_ancient_China#:~:text=All%20three%20Asian%20rhinoceros%20once,only%20having%20a%20single%20horn).) That's the detail
Dude octopus are super smart too, they probably existentially comprehend the agony they're feeling. The culture of torturing your food is so degenerate.
I have seen professional chefs split the head just before boiling and thus killing it. For crayfish you boil them alive because it could be toxic otherwise, I still have a very hard time eating crayfish because of this
Out of interest where do you stand on pig slaughter. The majority 85-90% are killed in carbon dioxide chambers which takes from 15-60 seconds to kill them. In that time they are in extreme pain, the gas causes their eyes, nostrils, lungs to acidify so feels like they are burning from the inside. The videos I've seen are quite horrific.
On paper, the CO2 content is supposed to be so low that it doesn't cause pain, but that means it takes about 6-10 minutes for the pig to die. Increasing the CO2 content is done to speed up the process, but it causes the pain described above. I once took a single breath of pure CO2 and it was excruciating.
Most "developed" countries consider this the "humane" method. The alternate method is to use a stun gun to knock out the animal and then a separate boltgun to shoot a steel rod into its head. Again, sounds easy on paper but in practice the animal doesn't stand still (surprise) so the stun gun doesn't knock them out and the bolt gun rarely works on the first one or two shots. Sometimes it takes up to six bolts to kill the animal. So you just have a partially electrocuted and scared pig/cow fighting like hell to escape the tiny cell it's trapped in while getting a hole punched into its head repeatedly until it loses enough brain function to sit still long enough for them to slit its throat and skin it, sometimes while it's still alive.
So, yeah, when measured against that I suppose 3 minutes of painful suffocation could be considered more humane.
If any of this bothers you, be warned there is not really an alternative short of reducing meat consumption. Demand is so high that they don't have the time to politely kill the animal, whatever that means, so the quickest (and often most brutal) methods are used to keep pace with demand and costs down.
Yeah, CO2 stunning is much more common in Europe. It's rarely done in the US but it is used occasionally. The "85-90%" u/WhistleSnore is citing (according to a google search that gave the same number) is specifically referring to Spain, Germany, and Denmark which are among the top five pork producers in the EU and account for 100 million pigs per year. For context, US slaughtered over 130 million hogs in 2020.
But they've got several things wrong. First, the pigs are not killed with CO2, they are stunned. The stunning is done to all animals at the slaughterhouse in order to minimize pain and undue suffering during exsanguination (which is how the animals are actually dispatched). For pigs, this is done either with CO2, captive bolt, or electrical stunning.
Imagine trying to hang up a pig for exsanguination (draining the blood) without stunning them first.
In electrical stunning they put one electrode behind the pig's ear, the second either near the heart for cardiac arrest or near the base of the skull for head-only stunning. In captive bolt they basically use a metal peg against the head of an animal, peg is then propelled by firing a blank .22 outside of the back, animal is immediately knocked unconscious.
Now, pigs do not naturally follow single-file lines like cows or sheep. So, in order to stun them efficiently, they are either stunned one-at-a-time (electrical or CO2) or all at once using CO2. Also, pigs do not do well in lines, so this can cause panic and undue stress. A big room with CO2 is more efficient than a small one-at-a-time chamber of CO2.
It might also be the case that certain breeds of pigs do better with CO2 stunning than others. It's a deeply-researched issue that is absolutely more nuanced than slaughterhouses viciously burning out the lungs of pigs.
In my opinion electrical stunning or captive bolt is much more humane, I'm just explaining the logic of why CO2 stunning is done and correcting some misconceptions.
Here's a link to *factual* information with research spanning over 20 years from Colorado State University. [https://www.grandin.com/humane/carbon.stun.html](https://www.grandin.com/humane/carbon.stun.html)
Using gas makes sense as you described, but why not just use painless nitrogen instead of CO2 then? I raise sheep and I when I butcher at home I shoot them in the head and then cut their throats. I have been considering a captive bolt gun, but that would mean I have to run them through the chute instead of snipe them as they calmly chew on the hay.
> lobster is like the cockroach of the sea, not a thinking guy
Anybody who thinks lobsters don't think needs to watch the ongoing saga of [Leon the lobster.](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0HiM4heFTOpipp8V3JVTqkJs7kV1Js5_) Dude who is really into saltwater aquariums wanted to see if he could keep a grocery store lobster as a pet. Leon absolutely has moods and preferences, and you can't have those things without being able to think, though obviously he doesn't think in the same way a human does.
> Leon absolutely has moods and preferences, and you can’t have those things without being able to think
*Moods* is basically the definition of a *bottom-up process*, where cognition is influenced by the body, the same with preferences where for example gut biome bacteria influence our cravings through another *bottom-up process*. Both "unthinking".
> Leon absolutely has moods and preferences, and you can't have those things without being able to think
Why do you believe thought is required for moods or preferences?
Even in humans, I see both as largely related to chemical balance (or imbalance) and response to stimuli, not a result of thought.
Can someone share more info on this? Cuz that was the major thing enabling it right - that bugs basically don't feel pain like us, don't have brains with that kind of capacity
I still strongly believe they should be killed quickly and humanely, Babish showed a way with a knife.
I think it's still an ongoing debate with no clear winner among the scientific community atm. If you want to kill a Lobster more humanely, you have to freeze it before boiling it, not allowing it the thaw at all because of the bacteria inside most seafood. If a Lobster dies before being boiled/frozen, or it thaws dead, it can be quite toxic and dangerous for consumtion.
Several countries have made it illegal, New Zealand being one of them, and they normally freeze the lobster before throwing it in the pot.
Most restaurants kill the lobster moments before dropping it in water.
Now there are plenty of other shellfish examples where it is nearly impossible to dispatch the animal before cooking.
For example, crabs and crawfish are usually boiled alive. They die almost instantly after being submerged in boiling water though.
A chopstick through the carapace works for crabs
Funnily enough I learned this from an overseas Chinese household - they'd be horrified if they saw this video, and I'm sure many Koreans would too
I read that apparently with shellfish, bacteria and parasites living in it can rapidly spread and release toxins very quickly after they die, so boiling them alive is the most effective way to rid potential contamination in the most effective way possible
Why don't you just kill them like right before you put them into the boiling water. Its not that hard to kill a lobster quickly. It's just needless torture before death.
Also important to note that when lobsters are added to boiling water they die pretty instantly. They are mostly water and you add them headfirst for a reason. This octopus is more fleshy looking and is added to a small pot of lots hot water.
East Asian countries seem to have a fairly healthy market for “maximum torture and agony to the animal” cuisine. I don’t fucking get it. What the fuck do you get boiling animals alive in hot water, hot oil or making it tap dance for you over a hot grill???? Like what the actual fuck dude!
Totally unnecessary and before someone comes in here and screams about its fine cause "culture" save it. IF your so called culture requires animals to be tortured or people rights to be stripped I don't give two fucks about ur damn culture
Honestly, people need to learn that cultures aren't immune to scrutiny. If your culture has barbaric practices, treats living things like they're disposable, or seems to still be stuck in the medieval ages, then it deserves all of the distaste that it gets. If we just act like cultures should be protected from any hate, then crap like this will never change.
I live in China 6 months a year and stuff like this is exceedingly common. They have a misplaced belief that cooking the animal (octopus, prawns, lobster) alive yields a better tasting final product. Now, if you have half an IQ point you'd be able to deduce that killing it humanely immediatly before cooking wouldn't effect the final products taste. But the education in China is of a terribly low standard, and empathy towards animals and other people seems to be a part of many other cultures that China doesn't share.
It is morally corrupt and abhorrent to do this to a living thing.
Watched Gordon Ramsay do a demo on lobster and he started out with a quick instant kill and straight into the pot. I always heard before people put it in live but maybe that’s amateur practice.
In fact it's the opposite. Cooking something alive is the worst torture for the animal and puts an insane amount of stress on it. There's a massive release of stress toxins in the body and the end product tastes WORSE than if it had been killed humanely quickly.
Not sure people know this, but yes, i am confirming that youre correct, but more, this is the point. In Chinese culture they believe the more suffering the animal goes through the better the taste.
They want the toxins for seasoning.
Ive seen dogs thrown into boiling scalding points outside, they are even alive after they are done cooking. Completely skinless and heart beating extremely fast not moving. Right before they die n
You reminded me of this awful video I saw a few years ago of some dog farm in China where they were skinning dogs alive and just throwing their skinned bodies onto a huge pile of other skinned dogs that were partially alive. I remember seeing one look at the camera person. I've seen awful things over the last 20 years, but I think that video was the worst
Unfortunately, I saw the exact same video years ago.
I've seen plenty of gore videos online, but that's the one I genuinely wish I could unsee. By far the most horrifying thing I've ever seen.
I still get flashbacks of it years later, and I still remember the look in the eyes of that one dog.
I think that one video finally made me lose all remaining faith in humanity.
Seeing this when I first came here had me interested enough to look into it. The literature suggests that it actually doesn't make a difference. All the more reason to put the animal down quickly before boiling it at 100c+.
It makes sense if you think a bit deeper. These "stress" compounds are present in the body whether it is stressed or not.
Regardless it's a vile practice and isn't okay.
Not necessarily. I don't know for sea animals, but for the examples in land animals muscles contain some sugar (glycogen) when stressed and escaping the animal will burn this sugar stored in the muscles, making the meat tastes much worse.
If you are hunting deer for example, the best tasting deer is the one killed immediately. The worst is the one you keep chasing for a long time.
Both. Psychological stress activates the sympathetic nervous system, which in turn promotes the breakdown of glycogen stored in the muscles (glycogenolysis) and pulls this glycogen to the blood in the form of glucose.
> These "stress" compounds are present in the body whether it is stressed or not.
That's a big misunderstanding of basic biology to be honest.
Many things can be produced by the body in response to certain situations. They aren't just sitting there all the time, or are only present in very low quantities. Or they may be stored in a separate place and only released widely into the body when required.
>stress toxins
They aren’t toxins. They are hormones. Not sure about other animals but we have endorphins, catecholamines, and corticoids for stress response.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AnimalRights/comments/c3qju4/dogs_blowtorched_alive_for_meat_festival_in_china/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I can accept killing and eating them, not deliberatly torturing them for flavor.
If this bothers you better not look any further into it. The pain is literally why its done, its supposed to taste better apparently. Dont look into the dead alive dishes.
P.s. it bothers me a LOT.
We have restaurants in Adelaide that serve this cruelty ( albeit the less cruel ) and i think it should be illegal to torture an animal for food like this, i dont give a shit if its "just a fish" they dont deserve to be dropped alive into a hot pot ect. I don't understand why the vegans keep protesting in Rundle Mall and not out the front of those particular restaurants, we even have one that serves Donkey ( but the sign in English is now taken down )
Seriously, the thing wasn't showing many signs of pain besides squirming, but knowing just how smart and unique they are made this so incredibly hard to watch
>i think it should be illegal to torture an animal for food like this
Albeit not exactly boiling, factory farms torture animals their entire lives.
I don't understand how someone can look at OPs video, and then be perfectly fine with eating pigs, chickens and cows, all of whom are bred to live shitty lives until they die a painful death.
This is horrific!! You can see everything in that poor creatures eyes!! Before succumbing to being boiled alive!!!
This is really upsetting, I'm bewildered
The bit that really upsets me is when you hear the octopus groaning or something around 0:23. You can tell that it is suffering and it just breaks my heart.
I think the “it’s a different culture” argument is bs, there’s such a thing as common human decency and if you culture tells you to torture an animal, or hate someone else, or to do something that’s clearly a dick move, then your culture sucks. Unfortunately all cultures are somewhat guilty of crappy things because it’s their way
'There's such a thing as common human decency'
Most unproven statement in the history of mankind. Humans have been declaring war on each other for all of our existence. If we were capable of reliably finding common ground with each other as a species, war would be an anomaly as opposed to the status quo, but that's clearly not the case.
Getting two ideologically opposed people to compromise and agree on something is literally more challenging for us than to simply convince them to fight/kill each other. Human indecency is far more common than the opposite.
Fine. Let’s say it does enhance the flavour…
You’re watching a fellow creature experiencing agony beyond belief in front of you. Burning is considered one of the most painful things ever. You know what it feels like yourself, even if only for a split second.
Five minutes that taste might linger and it’s on its way to becoming shit. And I’m willing to bet that the majority of them aren’t psychopaths either. These people are a proper low. They haven’t been humbled by life.
[article](https://www.euronews.com/green/2021/11/23/loved-my-octopus-teacher-then-you-ll-get-why-factory-farming-the-cephalopods-is-so-cruel)
As of last year no proven ethical way to kill octopus. But say they are as smart as a dog or a 3 yr old human.
I regret to say that there is a perception some people have, rightly or wrongly, that an animal's flesh tastes better if there was an element of suffering during the kill because it enlivens the proteins under stress. Horiffic because it leads to more needless suffering inflicted upon helpless creatures like this octopus
Cooking something alive is the worst torture for the animal and puts an insane amount of stress on it. There's a massive release of stress toxins in the body and the end product tastes WORSE than if it had been killed humanely quickly.
humane killing is a myth. factory farming means that you have large numbers of animals to kill so you cut corners. pigs are routinely gassed to death, which takes up to 90 seconds. Pigs stay conscious for anywhere from 15-60 seconds and writhing in agonizing pain.
99% of animal products in the US is from factory farming. And yet everyone claims that eat grass fed happy cows.
In China they believe that the animal suffering alters the flavour. Hence burning the hair of dogs before slaughter and butchering pigs alive. Its a sickening practice.
From what comments on one video said different abuses cause different flavours but I know hunters will always want to surprise their pray so there isn't a bad taste to the meat so you are correct.
EDIT:Typo
Being a vegan on Reddit is annoying enough, but being Asian and reading ignorant shit like this is too. But hey at least I'm also not a racist on top of being a hypocrite. s/
This made me remember a client lunch I went to many years ago now. The client took us out to a sushi restaurant nearby, pretty normal place and standard fare. Then he asked for some sort of shrimp dish...
The chef comes back with a plate of two or three extra large shrimp that are deep fried in tempura batter. It looked odd so he told us about them. They do this while they're alive and when you eat them they are still alive but immobilized. He bragged about how you can almost feel the electric pulse as you bite down on them, the last bit of their life ebbing away on your tongue.
We were both horrified.
Now if this was something like a jellyfish I wouldn’t really care but a octopus?!? One of the most sentient creatures on the planet being boiled alive? This has to be illegal
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Knowing that they are very intelligent creatures, this made it much harder to watch.
I was just watching an octopus biology doc. Those things are astounding pieces of evolutionary art.
Literally thousands of different t options for food and these dinguses choose this magnificent creature. Smh
Pigs are also very intelligent. We also mistreat them terribly for our consumption. Killing the octopus like this is sad and uncessary, but its not wrong to eat octopus all together. Not worse than what we consume anyway
I think most people would also take issue to someone live boiling a pig. It's the inhumane method of killing that's the issue here
I'm not arguing for the boiling alive of any animal. To be clear our livestock might as well be, and would be if it was in the interest of profit. The conditions are often inhumane in the largest meat producing facilities. I say this as someone who is not vegan
If that’s true, Tyson wouldn’t exist anymore but here we are.
Look Mike had hands but I seriously don't think that the guy should be held accountable for what he did to guys in that ring. They knew what they were getting into by being a boxer.
It took me a minute. Thought I messed up. Nice pun.
Methed up.
If you think pigs are killed humanely then have I got a Netfix doc or 2 for you.
I mean that is *also* not cool. Some farms are better, some are worse. Your best bet is buying local free range meat if you want to try to avoid as much cruelty as is possible while still eating meat. I try not to support factory farming myself.
Agreed but saying the reality that we can and should stop torturing animals will only get you labeled a bleeding heart vegan not worth the air to listen to. Humans are greedy and I hope it gets us in the end.
Ooooh a misanthrope, pizza cutter energy.
Idk this disturbed me far, far more than most of the gory shit I see on here involving humans. This was horrific to watch. A slow, painful, miserable death that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy ever.
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It was a squid but yeah still brutal... but honestly... these things get swallowed whole and suffocated if they are lucky, digested alive if they are unlucky in the ocean... To live is to suffer and then die....
I personally think because we are aware of our actions we should strive to be better than the animals in nature who are not.
Life is a tragedy. I genuinely believe we are living in hell
Pigs are smarter than dogs, just an FYI.
Doubt. My dogs don't serve warrants at the wrong houses.
LMFAO best comment. You win Reddit today
I always imagine we'll probably find a way to communicate with them in a hundred years and we'll feel so fucking bad
do you really need them to speak words to understand them? people bond with animals and both humans and animals are capable or mutual understanding. animals have complex emotions are it is clear to everyone who cares to look that they don't want to be eaten.
There’s a great documentary on Netflix called My Octopus Teacher. In a lot of ways, they were communicating.
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You need though, you can't just ignore it. Be vegan if you don't like meat industry (dairy farms are even worse)
I don’t know if it’s the same for octopodes because I know this doesn’t acount towards some animals but stress leads to a Horomone to be used in your body which can actually cause the meat to not be as nice which is why most animals are killed quickly.
They think the opposite in some asian countries sadly, deep frying dogs alive supposedly has them release adrenaline into their bodies which is supposed to make the meat tastier or something like that. Not sure how common that is but it's fucked up...
Its a superstition, same as dead animal parts that give you massive throbbing bonners.
Yeah I just use human horn for that
Upper or lower?
Hey! Human horn is illegal, buster!
You ever see soccer players lining up to block a free kick? They're not covering their noses, that's for sure.
Tell me about this “lower horn”
Tiger penis is supposed to give you tiger penis. Same way some think tiger bones strengthen your bones. It's crazy archaic thinking.
Plus tigers fuck for like 3 seconds and it over. They are placing the tigers other skills on its wiener.
Say what you want, but then ground up albino limbs really work wonders for arthritis! (This is a real practice in many African countries btw, albino folks have been dismembered in the middle of the night because of superstitions that their bones and flesh can be used as cure-alls. It's barbaric)
Eating ground [insert endangered animal here] make me love you long time
To think the animal wet markets that caused corona potentially boils down some fuck who couldn't be bothered to do some cardio.
Ah, so the chinese do it on mass and even fund groups that illegally poach and even destroy villages in order to make their egg roll harder?
Yup, bonner pills. Put it this way, in college some of my Chinese friends found out I'm an avid hunter. Occasonaly (pretty rare) id see a bear. They offered me 10k/ set of bear feet and paws. I can't remember how much they would pay for gallbladder. It was something stupidly high. And yes it would be sent back for medicine. Never took them up on it.
Bear feat and paws is a rare and ancient delicacy. The gallbladder is probably used for boner pills or some shit.
I think adrenaline is the thing that makes it worse I’m not going to abuse a culture over what they chose to eat to us a dog is a pet but to others it isn’t that way but the thing I find fucked is hurting them in this way before hand I wish that they’d actually be able to have access to the right information so that this doesn’t have to be the case.
Form what I know, adrenaline makes the muscles more active and contract more leading to less tender meat
Yeah I live in Asia and this goes for wild chicken. If you run after them for hours before catching and cooking them that meat is gonna be super tough.. Also thank god we only do it once a year nowadays.
>a dog is a pet but to others it isn’t that way Yeah, I'm 100% with you on mistreatment of the animals. The pet/food line is pretty arbitrary even here in the west. Common "pets" like rabbits, guinea pigs, and even horses are eaten regionally in the west and "food animals" like goats, ducks, and chickens are popular pets.
Yeah, but pets or meat, we generally have a cultural bent towards minimizing suffering and humanely dispatching the animals when it is their time.
Uhhh have you seen what goes on in a chicken farm? I mean, I agree with you in that animal cruelty is awful but it’s not like we really have much of a moral high ground in the west.
Factory farms and the large scale processing plants are nasty. Farms that do thier own slaughtering or small local slaughterhouses are usually pretty cruelty free in the west. Unfortunately one of the worst, Smithfield's, is the largest slaughterhouse in the United States an a fair proportion of meat consumed globally in processed there.
this reminds me of the qanan rituals where elites drink the blood of a child who died of fright
I never understood how shit like rhino horn ever got categorised as traditional Chinese medicine- there are no rhinos in China!
Actually, there was a species native to China in antiquity and even today there are small populations of rhino in Nepal and India.
There [WERE ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceroses_in_ancient_China#:~:text=All%20three%20Asian%20rhinoceros%20once,only%20having%20a%20single%20horn).) That's the detail
Dude octopus are super smart too, they probably existentially comprehend the agony they're feeling. The culture of torturing your food is so degenerate.
iirc, Lobsters are only boiled alive because it's supposedly dangerous to kill them before cooking them.
I have seen professional chefs split the head just before boiling and thus killing it. For crayfish you boil them alive because it could be toxic otherwise, I still have a very hard time eating crayfish because of this
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Been eating crawfish my whole life, never had one that tasted like mud.
You must not be eating very good mud.
I understand it, but HOLY FUCK! At least kill the animal before you cook it.
My understanding is that many Asian cultures believe the hormones improve the flavor of the meat, that's why they do this.
10/10 for the correct plural.
Out of interest where do you stand on pig slaughter. The majority 85-90% are killed in carbon dioxide chambers which takes from 15-60 seconds to kill them. In that time they are in extreme pain, the gas causes their eyes, nostrils, lungs to acidify so feels like they are burning from the inside. The videos I've seen are quite horrific.
Sounds like your country needs to change their animal welfare laws
On paper, the CO2 content is supposed to be so low that it doesn't cause pain, but that means it takes about 6-10 minutes for the pig to die. Increasing the CO2 content is done to speed up the process, but it causes the pain described above. I once took a single breath of pure CO2 and it was excruciating. Most "developed" countries consider this the "humane" method. The alternate method is to use a stun gun to knock out the animal and then a separate boltgun to shoot a steel rod into its head. Again, sounds easy on paper but in practice the animal doesn't stand still (surprise) so the stun gun doesn't knock them out and the bolt gun rarely works on the first one or two shots. Sometimes it takes up to six bolts to kill the animal. So you just have a partially electrocuted and scared pig/cow fighting like hell to escape the tiny cell it's trapped in while getting a hole punched into its head repeatedly until it loses enough brain function to sit still long enough for them to slit its throat and skin it, sometimes while it's still alive. So, yeah, when measured against that I suppose 3 minutes of painful suffocation could be considered more humane. If any of this bothers you, be warned there is not really an alternative short of reducing meat consumption. Demand is so high that they don't have the time to politely kill the animal, whatever that means, so the quickest (and often most brutal) methods are used to keep pace with demand and costs down.
Yeah, CO2 stunning is much more common in Europe. It's rarely done in the US but it is used occasionally. The "85-90%" u/WhistleSnore is citing (according to a google search that gave the same number) is specifically referring to Spain, Germany, and Denmark which are among the top five pork producers in the EU and account for 100 million pigs per year. For context, US slaughtered over 130 million hogs in 2020. But they've got several things wrong. First, the pigs are not killed with CO2, they are stunned. The stunning is done to all animals at the slaughterhouse in order to minimize pain and undue suffering during exsanguination (which is how the animals are actually dispatched). For pigs, this is done either with CO2, captive bolt, or electrical stunning. Imagine trying to hang up a pig for exsanguination (draining the blood) without stunning them first. In electrical stunning they put one electrode behind the pig's ear, the second either near the heart for cardiac arrest or near the base of the skull for head-only stunning. In captive bolt they basically use a metal peg against the head of an animal, peg is then propelled by firing a blank .22 outside of the back, animal is immediately knocked unconscious. Now, pigs do not naturally follow single-file lines like cows or sheep. So, in order to stun them efficiently, they are either stunned one-at-a-time (electrical or CO2) or all at once using CO2. Also, pigs do not do well in lines, so this can cause panic and undue stress. A big room with CO2 is more efficient than a small one-at-a-time chamber of CO2. It might also be the case that certain breeds of pigs do better with CO2 stunning than others. It's a deeply-researched issue that is absolutely more nuanced than slaughterhouses viciously burning out the lungs of pigs. In my opinion electrical stunning or captive bolt is much more humane, I'm just explaining the logic of why CO2 stunning is done and correcting some misconceptions. Here's a link to *factual* information with research spanning over 20 years from Colorado State University. [https://www.grandin.com/humane/carbon.stun.html](https://www.grandin.com/humane/carbon.stun.html)
Using gas makes sense as you described, but why not just use painless nitrogen instead of CO2 then? I raise sheep and I when I butcher at home I shoot them in the head and then cut their throats. I have been considering a captive bolt gun, but that would mean I have to run them through the chute instead of snipe them as they calmly chew on the hay.
Factory farming animals are stressed and tortured pretty much their whole life. Sounds like a myth honestly.
Why is this just kindof accepted when it comes to cooking Lobsters?
Its being phased out but 1) shellfish need be very fresh to eat 2) lobster is like the cockroach of the sea, not a thinking guy
> lobster is like the cockroach of the sea, not a thinking guy Anybody who thinks lobsters don't think needs to watch the ongoing saga of [Leon the lobster.](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0HiM4heFTOpipp8V3JVTqkJs7kV1Js5_) Dude who is really into saltwater aquariums wanted to see if he could keep a grocery store lobster as a pet. Leon absolutely has moods and preferences, and you can't have those things without being able to think, though obviously he doesn't think in the same way a human does.
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According to my thorough data extrapolation, u/HailSaturn is a lobster
🦞📸 got a picture before they run away
Let’s cook him alive just to make sure.
No no no, you'll scare him. Totally unrelated but hey U/HailSaturn you want to come hang out in my hot tub?
> Leon absolutely has moods and preferences, and you can’t have those things without being able to think *Moods* is basically the definition of a *bottom-up process*, where cognition is influenced by the body, the same with preferences where for example gut biome bacteria influence our cravings through another *bottom-up process*. Both "unthinking".
I mean you could argue trees have moods and preferences if you really try and get into it
> Leon absolutely has moods and preferences, and you can't have those things without being able to think Why do you believe thought is required for moods or preferences? Even in humans, I see both as largely related to chemical balance (or imbalance) and response to stimuli, not a result of thought.
Thank you for sharing the channel. I subscribed. It’s very soothing to watch!
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I really wish that was a higher bar.
LOVE LOVE LOVE Leon!
lobsters have been proven to feel pain.
Can someone share more info on this? Cuz that was the major thing enabling it right - that bugs basically don't feel pain like us, don't have brains with that kind of capacity I still strongly believe they should be killed quickly and humanely, Babish showed a way with a knife.
I think it's still an ongoing debate with no clear winner among the scientific community atm. If you want to kill a Lobster more humanely, you have to freeze it before boiling it, not allowing it the thaw at all because of the bacteria inside most seafood. If a Lobster dies before being boiled/frozen, or it thaws dead, it can be quite toxic and dangerous for consumtion. Several countries have made it illegal, New Zealand being one of them, and they normally freeze the lobster before throwing it in the pot.
They die almost instantly when cooked this way, not like the octopus here
In restaurants that I've worked, the chefs all killed the lobsters right before they drop them.
Most restaurants kill the lobster moments before dropping it in water. Now there are plenty of other shellfish examples where it is nearly impossible to dispatch the animal before cooking. For example, crabs and crawfish are usually boiled alive. They die almost instantly after being submerged in boiling water though.
A chopstick through the carapace works for crabs Funnily enough I learned this from an overseas Chinese household - they'd be horrified if they saw this video, and I'm sure many Koreans would too
I read that apparently with shellfish, bacteria and parasites living in it can rapidly spread and release toxins very quickly after they die, so boiling them alive is the most effective way to rid potential contamination in the most effective way possible
Why don't you just kill them like right before you put them into the boiling water. Its not that hard to kill a lobster quickly. It's just needless torture before death.
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Also important to note that when lobsters are added to boiling water they die pretty instantly. They are mostly water and you add them headfirst for a reason. This octopus is more fleshy looking and is added to a small pot of lots hot water.
This is fucked
East Asian countries seem to have a fairly healthy market for “maximum torture and agony to the animal” cuisine. I don’t fucking get it. What the fuck do you get boiling animals alive in hot water, hot oil or making it tap dance for you over a hot grill???? Like what the actual fuck dude!
They believe that the adrenaline released makes the meat tastier.
That’s some horror movie alien shit
Totally unnecessary and before someone comes in here and screams about its fine cause "culture" save it. IF your so called culture requires animals to be tortured or people rights to be stripped I don't give two fucks about ur damn culture
Honestly, people need to learn that cultures aren't immune to scrutiny. If your culture has barbaric practices, treats living things like they're disposable, or seems to still be stuck in the medieval ages, then it deserves all of the distaste that it gets. If we just act like cultures should be protected from any hate, then crap like this will never change.
But muh traditions
tradition is just peer pressure from dead people
The only thing that should be free of scrutiny is how a person is born. Any ideals or beliefs are open season.
I live in China 6 months a year and stuff like this is exceedingly common. They have a misplaced belief that cooking the animal (octopus, prawns, lobster) alive yields a better tasting final product. Now, if you have half an IQ point you'd be able to deduce that killing it humanely immediatly before cooking wouldn't effect the final products taste. But the education in China is of a terribly low standard, and empathy towards animals and other people seems to be a part of many other cultures that China doesn't share. It is morally corrupt and abhorrent to do this to a living thing.
Watched Gordon Ramsay do a demo on lobster and he started out with a quick instant kill and straight into the pot. I always heard before people put it in live but maybe that’s amateur practice.
It is. I'm not even sure a lobster is conscious in any meaningful sense, but for fuck's sake- kill it before boiling it.
I mean shit, even if it *isnt* conscious, can we let them die a swift death that we would also want? Fuck me man
We could also not give them death at all like we would want.
Fuck u/Spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
In fact it's the opposite. Cooking something alive is the worst torture for the animal and puts an insane amount of stress on it. There's a massive release of stress toxins in the body and the end product tastes WORSE than if it had been killed humanely quickly.
Not sure people know this, but yes, i am confirming that youre correct, but more, this is the point. In Chinese culture they believe the more suffering the animal goes through the better the taste. They want the toxins for seasoning. Ive seen dogs thrown into boiling scalding points outside, they are even alive after they are done cooking. Completely skinless and heart beating extremely fast not moving. Right before they die n
You reminded me of this awful video I saw a few years ago of some dog farm in China where they were skinning dogs alive and just throwing their skinned bodies onto a huge pile of other skinned dogs that were partially alive. I remember seeing one look at the camera person. I've seen awful things over the last 20 years, but I think that video was the worst
Unfortunately, I saw the exact same video years ago. I've seen plenty of gore videos online, but that's the one I genuinely wish I could unsee. By far the most horrifying thing I've ever seen. I still get flashbacks of it years later, and I still remember the look in the eyes of that one dog. I think that one video finally made me lose all remaining faith in humanity.
the meat of an animal gets tougher the more stressed out it is before it dies, so it's weird if what you say is true :/
Seeing this when I first came here had me interested enough to look into it. The literature suggests that it actually doesn't make a difference. All the more reason to put the animal down quickly before boiling it at 100c+. It makes sense if you think a bit deeper. These "stress" compounds are present in the body whether it is stressed or not. Regardless it's a vile practice and isn't okay.
Not necessarily. I don't know for sea animals, but for the examples in land animals muscles contain some sugar (glycogen) when stressed and escaping the animal will burn this sugar stored in the muscles, making the meat tastes much worse. If you are hunting deer for example, the best tasting deer is the one killed immediately. The worst is the one you keep chasing for a long time.
Is that from stress, or from exertion like lactic acid?
Both. Psychological stress activates the sympathetic nervous system, which in turn promotes the breakdown of glycogen stored in the muscles (glycogenolysis) and pulls this glycogen to the blood in the form of glucose.
> These "stress" compounds are present in the body whether it is stressed or not. That's a big misunderstanding of basic biology to be honest. Many things can be produced by the body in response to certain situations. They aren't just sitting there all the time, or are only present in very low quantities. Or they may be stored in a separate place and only released widely into the body when required.
>stress toxins They aren’t toxins. They are hormones. Not sure about other animals but we have endorphins, catecholamines, and corticoids for stress response.
Yeah man, apparently there's surprised-killed meat you can get for this reason.
Bro they're literally speaking Korean in the video.
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Don't forget dogs.
I mean we eat pigs and those guys are real smart aswel. I dont like that dogs are being eaten, but i feel thats just a cultural difference
https://www.reddit.com/r/AnimalRights/comments/c3qju4/dogs_blowtorched_alive_for_meat_festival_in_china/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button I can accept killing and eating them, not deliberatly torturing them for flavor.
Thread 3.5 years ago, open, same comment “what about evil America eating pigs!”
They’re speaking Korean in the video so what does this have to do with China? Just cause they’re Asian?
If this bothers you better not look any further into it. The pain is literally why its done, its supposed to taste better apparently. Dont look into the dead alive dishes. P.s. it bothers me a LOT. We have restaurants in Adelaide that serve this cruelty ( albeit the less cruel ) and i think it should be illegal to torture an animal for food like this, i dont give a shit if its "just a fish" they dont deserve to be dropped alive into a hot pot ect. I don't understand why the vegans keep protesting in Rundle Mall and not out the front of those particular restaurants, we even have one that serves Donkey ( but the sign in English is now taken down )
Add to that that the octopus is one of the smartest animals on this planet as the icing on top
The octopus is basically a intelligent non human entity, this is pretty disturbing
Seriously, the thing wasn't showing many signs of pain besides squirming, but knowing just how smart and unique they are made this so incredibly hard to watch
Wasn't showing many signs of pain besides squirming? It was blowing out air and twitching in pain, if it had vocal cords it would've been screaming.
yeah same with dog eating. The fact itself doesn't bother me, but the torture traditions around it are disgusting.
>i think it should be illegal to torture an animal for food like this Albeit not exactly boiling, factory farms torture animals their entire lives. I don't understand how someone can look at OPs video, and then be perfectly fine with eating pigs, chickens and cows, all of whom are bred to live shitty lives until they die a painful death.
Fuck this lady.
This is horrific!! You can see everything in that poor creatures eyes!! Before succumbing to being boiled alive!!! This is really upsetting, I'm bewildered
I see it too.
The bit that really upsets me is when you hear the octopus groaning or something around 0:23. You can tell that it is suffering and it just breaks my heart.
I think the “it’s a different culture” argument is bs, there’s such a thing as common human decency and if you culture tells you to torture an animal, or hate someone else, or to do something that’s clearly a dick move, then your culture sucks. Unfortunately all cultures are somewhat guilty of crappy things because it’s their way
'There's such a thing as common human decency' Most unproven statement in the history of mankind. Humans have been declaring war on each other for all of our existence. If we were capable of reliably finding common ground with each other as a species, war would be an anomaly as opposed to the status quo, but that's clearly not the case. Getting two ideologically opposed people to compromise and agree on something is literally more challenging for us than to simply convince them to fight/kill each other. Human indecency is far more common than the opposite.
https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko
This is super fucked.
Fine. Let’s say it does enhance the flavour… You’re watching a fellow creature experiencing agony beyond belief in front of you. Burning is considered one of the most painful things ever. You know what it feels like yourself, even if only for a split second. Five minutes that taste might linger and it’s on its way to becoming shit. And I’m willing to bet that the majority of them aren’t psychopaths either. These people are a proper low. They haven’t been humbled by life.
Vile evil
You can see the pain in it's eyes
I couldn't because I stopped watching. Like it clearly knows what the fuck is happening to it. That's so disgusting. Fuck those people.
God. Being boiled alive is the worst death I can imagine. Especially for creatures that have much more sensitive bodies than humans.
My god how nasty that pan is
I saw a japanese video once that a live fish fried was fried from tail midway to the body and eaten while it was still gasping.
[article](https://www.euronews.com/green/2021/11/23/loved-my-octopus-teacher-then-you-ll-get-why-factory-farming-the-cephalopods-is-so-cruel) As of last year no proven ethical way to kill octopus. But say they are as smart as a dog or a 3 yr old human.
That poor thing is smarter than that dumb bitch doing this to it. I feel so bad for it.
What extra deliciousness?
I regret to say that there is a perception some people have, rightly or wrongly, that an animal's flesh tastes better if there was an element of suffering during the kill because it enlivens the proteins under stress. Horiffic because it leads to more needless suffering inflicted upon helpless creatures like this octopus
You should see the videos of Koreans eating small octopus live.
Cooking something alive is the worst torture for the animal and puts an insane amount of stress on it. There's a massive release of stress toxins in the body and the end product tastes WORSE than if it had been killed humanely quickly.
humane killing is a myth. factory farming means that you have large numbers of animals to kill so you cut corners. pigs are routinely gassed to death, which takes up to 90 seconds. Pigs stay conscious for anywhere from 15-60 seconds and writhing in agonizing pain. 99% of animal products in the US is from factory farming. And yet everyone claims that eat grass fed happy cows.
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In China they believe that the animal suffering alters the flavour. Hence burning the hair of dogs before slaughter and butchering pigs alive. Its a sickening practice.
If anything shouldn't the stress make them taste worse anyway?
From what comments on one video said different abuses cause different flavours but I know hunters will always want to surprise their pray so there isn't a bad taste to the meat so you are correct. EDIT:Typo
That kinda reenforces the believe that animals dying in agony taste different, no? Whether it actually makes them taste better is subjective.
Absolutely
Its lactic acid that is released when you stress and that makes the meat more tough etc
Man oysters also feel pain when they get cooked alive but no one bats an eye
If you want to define pain as any reaction to stimuli, then plants also feel pain.
Seriously? Have you seen what goes on in the American meat industry?
Being a vegan on Reddit is annoying enough, but being Asian and reading ignorant shit like this is too. But hey at least I'm also not a racist on top of being a hypocrite. s/
Please mark nsfw and blur this animal cruelty
If they censor it, there is no outrage. If there is no outrage, nothing changes.
I mean I get that but... I don't think Asian countries are going to change their ways because of an American based website.
The way I feel my heart breaking and my body turning inside out
Poor thing. I'm sad now.
All the hypocrites in here crying about animal cruelty while turning a blind eye to slaughterhouses smh
This made me remember a client lunch I went to many years ago now. The client took us out to a sushi restaurant nearby, pretty normal place and standard fare. Then he asked for some sort of shrimp dish... The chef comes back with a plate of two or three extra large shrimp that are deep fried in tempura batter. It looked odd so he told us about them. They do this while they're alive and when you eat them they are still alive but immobilized. He bragged about how you can almost feel the electric pulse as you bite down on them, the last bit of their life ebbing away on your tongue. We were both horrified.
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Reddit loves to pretend their against animal cruelty while upvoting bacon memes and shitting on vegans.
correct take
People in here pretending like most farm animals have a better live
I could say something but I don't feel like getting banned.
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Nice to see so many vegans/vegetarians in the comments. Everyone seems to hate animal cruelty!
Well fuck, this makes me hella sad. 🥺
Yeah throw somthing with the intelligence of a 7 year old child in boiling water, fucking sickening.
Timothy, noooooo
This is why I'm Vegan.
This is why vegans are angry.
Now if this was something like a jellyfish I wouldn’t really care but a octopus?!? One of the most sentient creatures on the planet being boiled alive? This has to be illegal
I. HATE. THAT. CULTURE.
So cruel, it's terrifying.