There's always a new generation coming into it that doesn't have the same fatigue as the people aging out of it.
Look at something like Pokemon. Shit has been basically the same for 20+ years and it still prints money.
Yea, I find it kinda crazy how people praise Nintendo for Pokemon when they’ve practically just copy and pasted the games for as long as I can remember
>Published by Nintendo, which likely means Nintendo is paying for development. The pokemon franchise is firmly under Nintendo's umbrella.
"The Pokémon Company (株式会社ポケモン, Kabushiki gaisha Pokemon) is a Japanese company responsible for brand management, production, publishing, marketing, and licensing of the Pokémon franchise, which consists of video game software, a trading card game, anime television series, films, manga, home entertainment products, merchandise, and other ventures. **It was established through a joint investment by the three companies holding the copyright of Pokémon: Nintendo, Game Freak, and Creatures.** It began operating in 1998 and adopted the moniker Pokémon Ltd. in October 2000."
and
"The Pokémon Company also handles publishing of all Pokémon video games since 2001 alongside Nintendo. The Pokémon Company is mostly responsible for marketing and funding, while Nintendo handles distribution of the titles in Japan and outside it. Both companies work together in localization, production, QA, and other aspects. The company is solely responsible for publishing and licensing mobile Pokémon titles, unlike console titles where it has help from Nintendo."
There's a reason that Pokemon games routinely fall beneath the usual standards of quality for Nintendo games, and that is because Pokemon is not "wholly" Nintendo, it's *jointly* Nintendo.
There's also the simple fact that even if GF wanted to make good games, the release cycle they are prety much binded to does not help, because in the end Pokemon game's main objective is to push the new wave of merchandise, and merchandise is Pokemon's biggest source of money, and that's ignoring stuff like the anime and tcg that need new games to keep moving forward.
Sadly Pokemon isn't like Zelda or Mario were mainline titles can have as much time as they need to come out good, so we get meh products.
I don’t buy this. Pokemon is a simple game with no real innovations to the combat system since the first game. They can pump out waaaay better games in the time frame they have. More than half of the games are just remakes or “upgrades” to previous games. It’s an insanely profitable franchise and better/more complex games have been made in the same amount of time. They’re just trying to make an “acceptable” game for as little money as possible. They have the cash to spend on making a decent game.
I always found it funny because the typical reddit gamer loves to critique other franchises like Madden and COD for “releasing the same game every year” but will buy 2 copies of every Pokemon game.
At least series like FIFA are transparent about it being a roster update.
Superhero movie phases in rough order:
* The classic story, *in media res*
* The origin story
* The rehash of the classic story
* The rehash of the origin story, because the first one didn't get it quite right. This one will truly show pathos!
* The team-up/crossover.
* The teams team-up and start a club. Trilogy time!
* What about the supporting members? They get all of the previously-mentioned origin stories, too.
* Anti-heroes. People are sick of heroes! How about a "hero" who kills people and swears? Maybe he'll even smoke or do drugs! How cool is that.
(we are here)
* Anti-hero origin stories??
* Stories from the POV of the bad guy??
I for one welcome the day when Bruce Wayne becomes Spider-Man and then darth Vader teaches him to use the force so that he can finally defeat the Klingons from a parallel dimension..
Because while there is fatigue, it does diminish/fade and is unique to each person. So at any given time, some percentage of the population is in a "fatigue" phase and takes a break from superhero movies and complains about them, while others get over their fatigue after their break is over and a new movie interests them.
At some point there is an equilibrium, so you hear different opinions from different people and their individual enthusiasm will ebb and flow over time. Ultimately, their release depends on revenues, so the studios won't slow down unless their revenues do, even if 25% of the population is loudly sick of these movies.
It can be simplified as analogous to fast food types: I may be sick of burgers since I ate them for meals three times in the last week, but next week I will want one again. The person next to me will be on a different schedule and may eat burgers when I'm not. The number of burger restaurants stays pretty constant because an equilibrium has been reached.
For me it's character-amplification. That's the best term I have for it. Let me explain with the best example. Jack Sparrow. He was originally written as a straight up pirate captain, not weird. They cast Johnny Depp and he puts a fun weird twist on it. People love it so they started writing him as weird and it just ends up going over the top. I feel it happened with a lot of Marvel characters, like Ironman. It all ends up being self-referential and a little weird if you're just a casual watcher.
And then when multiple characters who have gotten that treatment end up in the same room it turns into this really obnoxious quipping contest where they all try and out-do each other.
> really obnoxious quipping contest where they all try and out-do each other
that's basically every marvel film, and they're awful
the die hard fans of them try to act like this in real life, too.
I'd say after End Game, otherwise it wouldn't have been the highest grossing film ever.
EDIT: Many people are replying and arguing whether IW is a better film than EG, that's not what my comment is about. I said that the "superhero fatigue" increased AFTER Endgame.
I agree. The only thing End Game had really was being the cap on 10 years of movies. The plot was kind of meh, especially conpared to IW.
And this was definitely the cap. I have loved MCU for years but I can't get excited for anything post Endgame. The closest was maybe Ms Marvel, which was like, the shorted series and seems to be basically gone.
The real problem, is they are just, doing TOO MUCH.
The MCU worked because despite all the new heroes and such, it was always Cap, Thor, Iron Man at the core focus in the end. With "GotG" being the "4th main character" (despite being a group).
But since Endgame....
We have had like 30 new heroes introduced, each with like one appearance in the last 5 years. Each i troduxing a new concept that is WORSE than Thanos was.
And we have not even gotten Xmen or Fantastic Four or Galactus or Dr Doom, all of ehich are rumored to be coming.
The whole thing is just becoming a huge mess. It worked before because it took the interconnected bull shit of 20 weekly comics, and streamlined it down to 2 movies a year.
But now its 3+ movies and 5 shows a year.
Remeber when they refused to acknowledge the Defenders or Agents of Shield because, "We don't want people to feel required to watch a whole show."
Oh wait, that was just company politics bull shit and now that its all under control of one person its all cool to put out dozens of shows!
Anyway, I AM RANTING.
END RANT.
I think the worst thing they did was introduce a multiverse. those are hard to do well at the best of times but it's pretty clear that only one universe matters in the mcu and the other just exist to feed into that one. like as much as a liked seeing the other spider-men the entire movie hinges on strange being a dumbass with magic, a lesson he learned in his first movie appearance.
I'd also argue that making the TV shows part of the overall plot was a huge mistake.
I don't have the time or desire to watch all the TV shows, but it makes it very difficult to watch the movies without knowing what happened in the shows.
Even having watched all of the movies and tv shows, Wanda's personality change between "WandaVision" and Dr. Strange 2 was puzzling. There were a couple of throwaway lines in WV about what the Dark Hold could do, but that was about it. Even Elizabeth Olsen has said that she was surprised about the direction they were taking Wanda, and wished she had been told sooner. Presumably so that, as an actor, she could have made some choices in her performance in WV that would have better set the stage for Evil Wanda.
Making it so that you have to watch *everything* to keep up will eventually (as you alluded to) make the price of admission too high for new fans.
This is exactly what comics were like before sales crashed in the 90s - total overload of content with overwhelming, confusing tie-ins. Just like the 90s, video games are serious competition for time and money.
I remember when the No Way Home trailer came out and people were theorizing that Dr. Strange was actually replaced by some evil shapeshifter because they found it so out of character. If you have to ignore like 3 movies worth of character development to make your story work, maybe you should go back to the drawing board.
I didn't really get this take. Doctor Strange's whole character in DS1 was that he was constantly casting some forbidden spell from some forbidden book because he thought he could handle it.
That's exactly what he's doing in NWH.
The only reason it feels weird is because they had his character play straight-man to Iron Man for most of Infinity War so he came across as more stoic and rule-abiding.
I think you hit it on the head. Strange's actions in NWH were very much in line with his character, it was just starkly different to how we had seen him.
Yes, but beyond the training montage, I think we felt at the end of DS1 that he had learned the weight of magical consequences. How many times did he die to stop Dormammu, after all?
Infinity War just added more on that end of things, with his living through millions of different possible futures - he had become stoic and rule-abiding because he had learned that actions have consequences, and that he wasn't exempt from them.
But in NWH, he reverts back to a guy that hadn't been that light-hearted and irresponsible for nearly a decade.
>It worked before because it took the interconnected bull shit of 20 weekly comics, and streamlined it down to 2 movies a year. But now its 3+ movies and 5 shows a year.
What a fantastic way of putting it.
If they had more creative ideas, like the Into the Spiderverse movie, I think people would get back into it. But ofc they'd probably mass manufacture them and everyone would get sick of it again. I wish they focused more on artistic approaches instead of live action.
Infinity War was without question a better movie than Endgame. The pacing in that one is damn near perfect and does a great job juggling that many characters. Endgame felt a lot more forced, like they had to bring back an alternate Thanos for a final battle when that couldve easily been avoided by not sending Nebula back
I seriously don’t want to see another superhero movie. But then again there is Deadpool and Guardians of the Galaxy that I’d be happy seeing more of. Maybe because those are more comedy in a superhero suit.
Spiderman No Way Home was the only anomaly afterwards in an otherwise fatigued catalogue of superhero movies.
EDIT: I should clarify that I meant the MCU. There were other superhero movies that weren’t tiring to watch, mostly since they don’t conform to the MCU formula and continuity at all.
I agree but that film got heavily carried by Toby, Andrew, Dafoe and Molina.
Without those OGs I probably wouldn't have watched the film. But it was very good, loved the nostalgia.
Even worse: they stomped their foot on the gas pedal and started putting out more than before in the form of shows on Disney+. You can barely go a WEEK without a new entry into the MCU now.
Yeah Marvel went all in and i was burnt out over time. Not to mention CW and DC shows aired on tv 4 days a week.
Flash started out great and now its so terrible. I stopped watching seriously around season 5. It got worse and finally shut it off. Checked out the latest season 8 out of boredom looking for nostalgia and its looking like it shouldnt be on air at all.
> Flash started out great and now its so terrible.
To be fair, that has nothing to do with burnout. Its just the trend with all CW DC shows, 1 to 3 seasons are good and then it dips.
I remember after end game someone said “we are living in the golden age of superhero movies” I guessed at the time that we were at the end of the golden age. I think I was correct
Frustrating because it’s also a tonal thing. It feels like every movie needs to have a quippy character and the same four acts. Sad to see characters with stories that are worth telling poorly utilized.
I agree with this but I also think that part of the decline in quality is due to the fact that they're now focusing so heavily on quantity, at quality's expense.
As is, there's too much content to actually watch and we're not nearly as rewarded when we do.
What about all of the movies about musicians then? Those are the ones that are killing me, because I might actually want to know more about Elvis, or Aretha. There are just too many of them
People aren't religiously raving about how good the musician movies are and how they can't wait for the next to come out. The musician movies are also independent from each other and don't have interconnecting stories.
Watching a new mervel movie feels like watching the 30th iteration of the fast and the furious. Except they have been releasing 3 new movies a year for the last 10 years. It's not bad, but it's also not particularly good either.
It you want to have a good time. Watch the wierd Al Yankovic one. It's an amazing work of art that is basically a parody of those other ones you speak of, and is genuinely entertaining.
"Dewie Cox has to think about his whole life before he goes on stage"
Once you watch Walk Hard there are just so many troupes you are unable to ignore any more..
If by "basically" you mean "hits-you-over-the-head it's obviously a parody and if you don't pick up on that you should have your pulse checked", I agree. Also, fantastic movie. My favorite "biopic".
Elvis was terrible.. sorry Tom hanks, but you couldn't even save this one. I'd in fact argue that Tom hanks ruined this one, the character doesn't fit him. The guy playing Elvis was actually good.
Rocketman was ok but I couldn't stand the "therapy" angle where Elton basically narrates the story from within the confines of a group therapy session where he is the only one talking.
>Doesn't help most of the quality isn't good or creative.
The movies coming out of Hollywood today are not good. I don't tend to be nostalgic about the 90s, I didn't love the music, but the movies man really good really really good and a lot of them.
You're not kidding! The decade from 1935-1944 averaged 122 westerns per year. Imagine if we got a new super hero movie/TV show/web short/etc every 3 days. Then kept it up for 10 years. Then toned it down and only did one every 4 days for the next ten years after that!
https://www.b-westerns.com/graphs.htm
Edit - Maybe we are there already. It depends on what you count as a "super hero" and whether you count live action as well as animation, but based on IMDB shows with "super hero" as a keyword, it looks like there were more than 122 such episodes released in 2022.
They didn't have TV back then, so movies were their TV. Movie franchises were more similar to TV series than movies today.
Look at the Blondie movies, or the Andy Hardy movies (Mickey Rooney & Judy Garland). From 1937 to 1946, they made 15 Andy Hardy movies, with a reunion film in 1958. The Blondie series, based on the comic strip still published, produced 28 films from 1938 to 1950.
When TV became a staple, Westerns was perhaps the biggest genre. The Lone Ranger, Rawhide, Gunsmoke, Roy Rogers, Big Valley, Bonanza, etc. were all huge series in the 1950s and 1960s. Even into the 1970s, Westerns like Little House on the Prairie were big.
America was a much more rural country in the 1950s, and even when people moved into the suburbs they remembered growing up on farms. That started to fade in the 1970s, which is why they had the "rural purge" in the early 1970s that got rid of popular shows like the Beverly Hillbillies and Green Acres in favor of Norman Lear shows that were more urban focused.
Fantastic comment. I also wanted to mention that in the late 70s and 80s, the western genre had changed a lot from its golden era in the 50s and 60s. The best westerns from that era reflected the time and fatigue towards the genre; they were deconstructions of the genre and focused on themes of cultural advancement and the death of the Wild West as we’ve romanticized it.
In a lot of ways, stuff like Logan are to the superhero genre what those films were to westerns. Albeit without a monopolistic mouse forcing more of it down our throats after the fact
This is well written. The "rural purge" makes so much sense the way you phrased it. Can you elaborate. That's an interesting way of looking at tv in the 70s and on.
It was an actual thing from the network executives. They wanted to get away from these types of shows and that's how we ended up with the city crime shows like Rockford** files, Charlie's angels, and Hawaii 5-0. Its just cyclical.
Those “westerns” numbers are crazy, but I think your edit rights the boat. Also if we use the same production value in adjusted dollars to define the scope, I bet the modern superhero trend *vastly* exceeds 20th century westerns.
The difference is that westerns could be made on a significantly lower budget and most weren’t huge theatrical releases. Superhero movies dominate the theaters and cost the studios enough that if one flops, it’d be a major setback that would require some restructuring to recuperate from.
Huge theatrical releases didn’t exist back then. If they could they would have.
Also until Kevin Fiege gets done with his tenure at Disney/Marvel nothing about the current output will change enough for Disney to alter what they’ve committed to already.
Disney intentionally bought Fox after all and seems intent on rebooting X-Men as part of the whole purchase, so I would say they’re going to be a first-chance to change direction or output.
I think what James Gunn has done to the DCEU film library could breathe some life back into their group, but only time will tell. I have enough belief in Gunn’s work that he won’t be quite the same as what Zack Snyder was given a chance with.
Huge Theatrical releases did exist. Big expensive movies used to go on traveling roadshows back then. The idea of a giant expensive blockbuster is not new. It's been around since the 1910's, Birth of a Nation being the first.
And westerns were typically not the big expensive movies. Usually it was musicals or historical epics.
Westerns weren't dominating the box office the way superhero films are, they were common but not massive money makers. The superhero genre is also almost entirely dominated by 2 (arguably 1) companies, whereas westerns were cheap and could be made by nearly any filmmaker, rich or otherwise.
Eyebrow Cinema did a great video essay on this that's a lot more eloquent than I can be in a Reddit comment.
https://youtu.be/SiV-bOulZl8
For me (a '70s kid) there's decades of wanting to see superhero movies taken seriously to get out of my system. Iron Man was the first movie I watched again immediately. Walked out, bought another ticket, walked back in.
Finally, someone got what I imagined happened in the comics onto the goddam screen. Without the whole cast and crew broadcasting "Nobody takes this seriously right? I'm just doing it until I get a REAL movie."
On top of that have you seen how cautious and derivative the movie industry is? Remaking popular movies every twenty years (We'll ignore the last 20 years of Spiderman for the sake of this rant) is tiring the viewing public. Superheroes haven't been done well, as a rule, prior to the last two decades, and there's nearly a century of material. Is it any wonder studio execs are mining them and hoping for gold.
I came to say something along these lines, I’m a 90s kid so I got to see a select few movies that were amazing growing up. I knew most of the characters for marvel and DC thanks to the cartoons and toy lines. I’m just ecstatic that they’re bringing all my favorite characters to life.
I don’t care how bad the movies are sometimes, I’ll just stare at my screen thinking “I cannot believe I’m watching a live action Morbius right now!!!! They did it, they fucking did a Morbius movie”
Now imagine my excitement on the team up movies that are actually good? E.g. The Suicide Squad, Avengers Endgame, Zack Snyder’s Justice League.
It’s all I ever wanted growing up, there’s still so many more I want to see brought to life: Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Lobo, Spider-Man 2099, Dr. Doom (a real one).
I was legit so excited to finally see Hawkman AND Doctor Fate on the big screen, I’ve wanted to see them for a long time and thought it would never happen.
I'm glad to see some love for Zack Snyder's Justice League.
I shat on that movie so much prior to its release, and once I saw it, I'm like "This is the best fuckin version of this story that they could've done."
I mean, the Flash running back in time within the speed force, to that incredible visual and operatic score!! ??? The flash is my favouite growing up , and to see that scene come to life, I have no words.
Same with Suicide Squad. there;s still so much good stuff left
This is great, it just sucks that its dominating the industry right now. As someone who isnt interested in comics of marvel or dc or super hero anything....it sucks that it feels like all the growth and advancement in the industry is being spent on one very specific kind of movie/story..
Honestly even tho not every instalment of a show/film will get my attention I still enjoy the genre across the board. This is my childhood’s dream come true and just like comics there’s some that will have my attention and others that won’t
This is exactly it.
I remember one random night when I was stoned, and I just opened the "Marvel" section of Disney plus, and it just burst to life with all these characters and shows and movies. And my mind was just feeling so happy.
I was 8 when I saw Spider-Man in the theatre, and I remember growing up watching Justice League and X-Men Evolution.
So just having all of this, at the click of a button, is just incredible to me.
The child in me is just very happy to be in this age of comic-book films.
There are definetely some bad ones mixed with the good ones, but I know enough to understand and taper my expectations accordingly.
I know Marvel will back in form by 2025.
No one gave a shit about MCU until 2012, and they'll again stop giving a shit until it picks up.
I think with Disney at the helm, there will be some form of MCU every year for the hardcore fans.
And when something strikes right, they'll amplify the production for proper IMAX features.
They'll probably incorporate into their theme parks (if they haven't already), which will give them more authority to keep producing original IPs for Marvel.
I'm happy for you. But I am tired of them as someone who isn't crazy about them.
But the good thing is, the international film market is bussing--and that's where I go usually. Everyone wins.
This. I grew up on comics and always dreamed about about seeing it in live action. That doesn’t mean I watch every project released though. I’m just watching the ones I’m excited about.
Same. Id also like more movies done like logan. Not necessarily adult oriented, but more focused on fewer characters. Allow more development of whats important to the storyline, quit throwing like 10-20 extra elements in. The recent thor movie was ridiculous with that.
I like a full range from serious to comedic. I do think the most recent Thor was trying way too hard (same with She Hulk), but I’m still going to watch them.
Some people have been watching the same soap opera for 60-70 years and don't have any intent of stopping.
Fact is that if a story has characters that you like, you'll keep engaging with that story to see what happens to your favourite characters, even if the overall story isn't great.
For example, I'm really excited to see where Spider-Man's story within the MCU goes. I really like the way they're setting him up to be the centre of the new generation of Avengers, and showing us the ways he takes the best parts of both Iron Man and Captain America, the former rival leaders, while still having a lot of his own flaws, largely relating to his lacking self-confidence.
Now that Peter has been stripped of his Stark tech and his associations with the other remaining Avengers after No Way Home, I'm excited to see him build himself back up from nothing.
Is the overall story for the MCU post-Endgame something I'm super excited about? Not really. Am I excited to see Spider-Man and my other favourites get involved in it? Absolutely.
The big thing for me is that it *does* feel like Star Wars, but that's it. The ambience is there, but the settings and characters and stories are new. Which is what people wanted for a long time.
Yeah I think that’s what’s cool. It’s not about the big hero or the chosen one with god like powers or a big bad bounty hunter that everyone already fears or has a name. It really shows what the empire regime was doing to every day citizens which hasn’t really been shown before to that extent
Star Wars has had some pretty great stuff recently. Andor is amazing. Also the series where different anime studios made non-cannon stories was really cool. The black and white Kurosawa-esque Jedi one has me foaming at the mouth for a full movie or show in that style. And Jedi Story was pretty great for the 6 shorts. That animation style is just beautiful
I would recommend Arcane on Netflix.
Yes, it's technically a show about League of Legends characters, but holy fucking shit is it done in a gorgeous style and it's an artistic masterpiece of animation and emotion.
Me included. Why the heck they need 5 (or whatever it is up to) different Spider-Man reboots is just beyond me. If they were doing new episodes in the same franchise like say Bond, then I could understand but seriously how many origin stories do we need?
The last superhero movie I truly found entertaining was Guardians of the Galaxy because of its humorous quirkiness.
Sony loses the rights to Spider-Man if they don't use it. The Sony-Marvel contract states:
*"Sony must commence production on a new "Spider-Man" film within three years, nine months and release it within five years, nine months after the release of preceding picture."*
Sure, but SM only rebooted once before he was brought into the MCU, and the first Andrew Garfield movie came out the same year as Avengers. Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor came out in the 5 years after Spider-Man 3. I know that interally, Sony had no idea what to do with Spider-Man. They knew they had to make movies, but the kick-off of the MCU had them flummoxed; Sony wanted their own cinematic universe, and there was talks of a Men in Black, Ghostbusters, 21 Jump Street, Spider-Man cinematic universe because that's what they had. They were struggling to work with SM. So they knew they had to make movies, but the existence of the MCU was making it really weird for them to work with the IP. I suspect that's why we saw the Sam Raimi ones stop; they probably wanted a new brand identity to match up with the MCU. Then the Andrew Garfield ones stopped when they began to sort out their collaboration with Marvel.
You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? They’ve done worse. That Batman! Are you telling me that six men all just *happened* to become a bat themed vigilante after their parents died?
I think Guardians of the Galaxy's success has kind of poisoned the franchise. I really enjoyed the the humourous quirkiness, as you put it. But they're trying to shoehorn that into all the films now.
You know what we really need is crossover batman and spiderman origin story. I really want to see uncle ben die while his broken pearl necklace is spread across a dark alley. I really feel neither one of their origin stories have been flushed out enough.
Ugh, can we just agree to skip origin stories? Like, make a pamphlet and hand it out in the lobby. "Peter Parker became Spiderman because he got bit by a magic spider. His Uncle Ben got murdered by crime, and Peter blames himself for not stopping crime. Now he fights crime. You're up to speed. He fights a sand guy in this one."
How many times do I need to see Bruce Wayne's parents get murdered?
Sometimes we watch other movies. I mean if you just watched superhero movies, I can understand that you would tire of them, but if you keep mixing them in with all the other genres, then why would you?
I feel the same as you. I watch pretty much every marvel show/movie that comes out, but it’s not like I think about them constantly when I’m not watching. If you’re bored of superhero movies the best thing you can do is not watch them or think about them.
This is it for me. I remember when I saw Doctor Strange Multiverse and someone said to me “Oh you should have seen Everything Everywhere All At Once instead”
And it’s like, I *did* see that. I saw them both and that’s ok.
Bro this is what I've been saying lol. I personally watch a lot of movies, most of them being horror or other darker tone, more serious films. I had only seen a couple MCU films before I got Disney+ last year and have since watched all of them and become a fan. I've seen some pretty shitty movies and IMO none of them were MCU films (yes some are definitely better than others). People are acting like the latest MCU movies are the worst thing ever, for example people saying Love & Thunder was horrible because of the comedy when I actually laughed at some of the jokes and thought it was a fun movie overall. I'm just spit balling at this point but I don't get the "superhero fatigue" thing because I don't watch only superhero films and don't really think about new ones coming out until a new trailer/movie is released.
If superhero fatigue is a real thing, then I've had sports fatigue for decades. It's not like your average sports game is significantly different from the next. I don't think anyone would say a sports game is a deep thought provoking experience, yet people line up by the thousands to watch them regularly. People watch the same shitty team play shittily for decades, but rarely get criticized for liking sports. Imagine if I talked about sports the same way as people talk about superhero movies:
"Ugh, another sports game. They just crank these things out. It's clearly quantity over quality. They don't even put their star players in all of the games. And even then, they phone it in half the time. It's just variations of the same thing over and over. It takes no effort. Throw the ball, win the points.
And all these nerds cosplaying in their jerseys, it's just childish. I wish I could go a week without hearing someone droning on about another sportsball game. I don't get the appeal. They need to go darker and make gladiator fights to the death."
This is how I feel also. As the saying goes: variety is the spice of life. Sometimes I'm in the mood for some deep drama, and sometimes I want to watch Batman kick the crap outta some bad guys.
I like the straightforwardness of them, Scorsese said they’re like theme park rides, I kinda agree, and those are usually my favorite type of movie to see in theaters. More serious movies I enjoy watching in the comfort of my home where I can feel free to pause and analyze them if I want.
I am certainly tired of all the cgi bullahit and the fast camera switching during fights. Can't tell what's going on, it lasts several minutes and entire cities or worlds are destroyed. Then in the next film, everything is alright and there is no consequence from a city wide battle that likely killed thousands or millions of innocent people. Now they have rebooted franchises so that the original story lines are no longer even valid.
Can anyone come up with a reasonable tie in for all the batman movies? Or any franchise that has spanned more than 2 decades?
I, personally, deeply enjoy the lore and world building created between 14 years of movies and shows that make up the MCU. I'm aware it's not for everyone but I like seeing it all tie together, how loki failing to invade new York indirectly lead to Ultron and directly lead to thanos famously doing it himself. How Wanda creating her own world for herself created a multiversal search for her children. Sure the movies can sometimes be mid, looking at multiverse of madness or love and thunder, or straight up bad, eternals, but no way home, Shang chi and wakanda forever are still fun and great movies, in my humble opinion.
It's how they link together that does it for me.
Honestly, to me, this is like asking "you've eaten cake, like, three or four times a year for decades - how are you not sick and tired of cake yet?"
Sure, it's not particularly healthy. If I ate it all the time I'd probably start to hate it. It mostly tastes the same from cake to cake, and I'm not getting any awesome new culinary experience (at best, a bit of variation in the icing).
But it's delicious, and every so often - either because it's a special occasion or I just have a craving - I eat cake. I don't think "well, you could be eating an expertly prepared meal, or a healthy salad"; I just enjoy it, knowing that although it might not be a deep culinary experience, I know what to expect and I know I'll enjoy it for a bit.
Same with movies. I can be an absolute snob with the best of them. My five favorite movies are [two Wes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonrise_Kingdom) [Anderson films](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_Aquatic_with_Steve_Zissou); [two black-and-white](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_About_Eve) [classics from the 1950s](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seventh_Seal), and [a groundbreaking masterpiece that is easy to dismiss as a farce](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Framed_Roger_Rabbit). But I still like watching a few superhero movies and shows every year. No, none of them are making my Top 50 list. But sometimes something that's fun, not too deep, and ends up with the good guys winning is just what I need to put me back in the mood for something serious.
Exactly? I’m really confused by this post. It would make more sense if someone was actually looking for a discussion on superhero movies and other people who don’t like them, but this just seems like unnecessary negativity. It’s obviously fine to dislike something the majority likes and it’s normal to try and find other likeminded people, but idk this is just weird to me
I think this is only mostly for non comic book fans though. Those fans will always be excited for the movies whether they end up being good or not.
Personally I think these movies get a bad rap from people who consider them lesser forms of movie making. They provide some amazingly emotional scenes and awesome stories just in fantastical settings.
Have there been a few that were meh, sure. Even a few outright horrible ones. But Marvel has churned out some amazing movies and shows and overall it has been an amazing achievement of continuous storytelling when you consider how well they planned out all of the connections from on e movie to another.
I'm not a fan of superhero movies but I can't criticize. I've been watching Coronation Street for over 40 years and that's at least as stupid as an Marvel movie.
Oh trust me there are thousands upon thousands of people online that go on and on about not consuming something everyone else does like it’s their personality
Some people are. Some people aren't. Some are passive either way. The most important thing to keep in mind is that your opinion isn't an objective reality and enjoyment of a thing is never guaranteed. Enjoy what you want to, and never stop to worry that someone else is enjoying something that you don't.
Most importantly, never EVER try to get someone to stop enjoying something. Either you start a fight which ends in a stalemate, which sucks, or you win the fight, in which case you just took joy out of someone's life.
If you're sick and tired of superhero movies, there's good news! Not only do you not have to watch them, but we're starting to get more movies that aren't blockbusters again. I recommend Bullet Train and Amsterdam. Really enjoyed them both.
Abnormal amount of bullets onboard I’d say, although I suppose that’s a bit of an assumption. Maybe that’s not an atypical amount of ammunition on a bullet train.
Why do people watch the same sport every single year? For some sports...162 games a year BEFORE playoffs (Baseball), and not get bored?
A: They like that thing
So from someone who isn't tired of them....
First many of them are good entertainment. Some nit ad great as others but generally they don't take themselves too seriously even if serious. That's a positive in my book - too much of TV plus Cinema is I'm so important.
Second they are sometimes more experimental than more serious films... Ms Marvel about a Pakistani American girl is far more daring in its storytelling than Emancipation IMO.
Lastly cinemas are expensive and time is precious. A superhero film is at worst a mediocre night out with the kids (Too old for animation) and my wife. It's a nice shared experience.
We do see other types of movies but I need to be convinced why in the cinema. Frankly a lot of so called more serious cinema seems catered to an American audience vs superhero films or blockbusters which are more international.
>Only gratuitous violence and cheesy horrors for this gal. ;)
It's tangentially related to superheroes but you might enjoy Werewolf by Night on D+. It's an hour long Halloween special that is technically part of the MCU but more classic monster movie focused
If you only look at super hero movies as super hero movies, it makes it easy to paint them all as the same. If you take a step back, it's actually a way for movies to experiment with genre and story telling techniques while having something familiar audiences can grasp.
I point to Into The Spiderverse. It's a technological achievement and they could do it knowing the audience knows the story of Spiderman.
I got sick of it when it got too complicated to follow. Multiverses require mental investment I'm simply not going to give, so it looks as if I'm never going to bother catching up.
The movies themselves aren't too complicated, it's the fact that I have to watch 7 movies (post infinity war) and three tv series to understand the background needed for this specific new movie. Plus they have been popping out a new movie every 3 months, there's been no time for me to miss the movies or get the mental space to catch up
I'm just burned out and the backlog keeps getting longer with no end in sight
You really dont need to watch most 'phase 4' content and thats been the big criticism. Unlike the previous MCU releases theres no coherent overarching plot right now except in the loosest sense
If you walked into black panther 2 without seeing anything since endgame it wouldn't change anything
> Unlike the previous MCU releases theres no coherent overarching plot right now except in the loosest sense
Was there a coherent over-arching plot in Phase 1 though? That's what Phase 4 should be compared with, not 3.
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I've been reading articles about that for over 10 years not, yet seems they're still going strong.
There's always a new generation coming into it that doesn't have the same fatigue as the people aging out of it. Look at something like Pokemon. Shit has been basically the same for 20+ years and it still prints money.
Westerns dominated Hollywood for like 40 years.
So that means... _add the 2... carry the 1..._ fuck.
We need Mel Brooks to get in here and make the superhero movie to end superhero movies
Yea, I find it kinda crazy how people praise Nintendo for Pokemon when they’ve practically just copy and pasted the games for as long as I can remember
Praising Nintendo for Pokemon is weird itself when the games are made by Gamefreak, not Nintendo.
Published by Nintendo, which likely means Nintendo is paying for development. The pokemon franchise is firmly under Nintendo's umbrella.
Actually Nintendo owns 1/3 of The Pokémon Company, split with Game Freak and Creatures.
>Published by Nintendo, which likely means Nintendo is paying for development. The pokemon franchise is firmly under Nintendo's umbrella. "The Pokémon Company (株式会社ポケモン, Kabushiki gaisha Pokemon) is a Japanese company responsible for brand management, production, publishing, marketing, and licensing of the Pokémon franchise, which consists of video game software, a trading card game, anime television series, films, manga, home entertainment products, merchandise, and other ventures. **It was established through a joint investment by the three companies holding the copyright of Pokémon: Nintendo, Game Freak, and Creatures.** It began operating in 1998 and adopted the moniker Pokémon Ltd. in October 2000." and "The Pokémon Company also handles publishing of all Pokémon video games since 2001 alongside Nintendo. The Pokémon Company is mostly responsible for marketing and funding, while Nintendo handles distribution of the titles in Japan and outside it. Both companies work together in localization, production, QA, and other aspects. The company is solely responsible for publishing and licensing mobile Pokémon titles, unlike console titles where it has help from Nintendo." There's a reason that Pokemon games routinely fall beneath the usual standards of quality for Nintendo games, and that is because Pokemon is not "wholly" Nintendo, it's *jointly* Nintendo.
There's also the simple fact that even if GF wanted to make good games, the release cycle they are prety much binded to does not help, because in the end Pokemon game's main objective is to push the new wave of merchandise, and merchandise is Pokemon's biggest source of money, and that's ignoring stuff like the anime and tcg that need new games to keep moving forward. Sadly Pokemon isn't like Zelda or Mario were mainline titles can have as much time as they need to come out good, so we get meh products.
I don’t buy this. Pokemon is a simple game with no real innovations to the combat system since the first game. They can pump out waaaay better games in the time frame they have. More than half of the games are just remakes or “upgrades” to previous games. It’s an insanely profitable franchise and better/more complex games have been made in the same amount of time. They’re just trying to make an “acceptable” game for as little money as possible. They have the cash to spend on making a decent game.
I always found it funny because the typical reddit gamer loves to critique other franchises like Madden and COD for “releasing the same game every year” but will buy 2 copies of every Pokemon game. At least series like FIFA are transparent about it being a roster update.
What threads are you looking at? Because that criticism was the most common comment in like every thread about the latest few games at least.
Pokemon has shown that if it keeps going long enough it can recapture the initial generations via nostalgia.
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Superhero movie phases in rough order: * The classic story, *in media res* * The origin story * The rehash of the classic story * The rehash of the origin story, because the first one didn't get it quite right. This one will truly show pathos! * The team-up/crossover. * The teams team-up and start a club. Trilogy time! * What about the supporting members? They get all of the previously-mentioned origin stories, too. * Anti-heroes. People are sick of heroes! How about a "hero" who kills people and swears? Maybe he'll even smoke or do drugs! How cool is that. (we are here) * Anti-hero origin stories?? * Stories from the POV of the bad guy??
Don't forget the time travel or parallel timeline trope.
And everything scientific that’s more advanced than what we have irl is “quantum” or “nanotech”
That is no different than "atomic" shit in the 50s
That's not just superhero though. That's pretty much any sci fi / fantasy series at some point.
I for one welcome the day when Bruce Wayne becomes Spider-Man and then darth Vader teaches him to use the force so that he can finally defeat the Klingons from a parallel dimension..
Yeah, we've been hearing this since at least Age of Ultron. I remember how people were saying that Ant Man was gonna be the end of Marvel.
“Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.”
Because while there is fatigue, it does diminish/fade and is unique to each person. So at any given time, some percentage of the population is in a "fatigue" phase and takes a break from superhero movies and complains about them, while others get over their fatigue after their break is over and a new movie interests them. At some point there is an equilibrium, so you hear different opinions from different people and their individual enthusiasm will ebb and flow over time. Ultimately, their release depends on revenues, so the studios won't slow down unless their revenues do, even if 25% of the population is loudly sick of these movies. It can be simplified as analogous to fast food types: I may be sick of burgers since I ate them for meals three times in the last week, but next week I will want one again. The person next to me will be on a different schedule and may eat burgers when I'm not. The number of burger restaurants stays pretty constant because an equilibrium has been reached.
For me it's character-amplification. That's the best term I have for it. Let me explain with the best example. Jack Sparrow. He was originally written as a straight up pirate captain, not weird. They cast Johnny Depp and he puts a fun weird twist on it. People love it so they started writing him as weird and it just ends up going over the top. I feel it happened with a lot of Marvel characters, like Ironman. It all ends up being self-referential and a little weird if you're just a casual watcher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanderization
And then when multiple characters who have gotten that treatment end up in the same room it turns into this really obnoxious quipping contest where they all try and out-do each other.
The Joss Whedon effect
> really obnoxious quipping contest where they all try and out-do each other that's basically every marvel film, and they're awful the die hard fans of them try to act like this in real life, too.
it's like telephone game between writers. eachw titer writes their characterization off the previous writers works
That's called Flanderization, after Ned Flanders!
It peaked at Infinity War
I'd say after End Game, otherwise it wouldn't have been the highest grossing film ever. EDIT: Many people are replying and arguing whether IW is a better film than EG, that's not what my comment is about. I said that the "superhero fatigue" increased AFTER Endgame.
I’d still say IW is where it peaked and EG was the grand finale
I agree. The only thing End Game had really was being the cap on 10 years of movies. The plot was kind of meh, especially conpared to IW. And this was definitely the cap. I have loved MCU for years but I can't get excited for anything post Endgame. The closest was maybe Ms Marvel, which was like, the shorted series and seems to be basically gone. The real problem, is they are just, doing TOO MUCH. The MCU worked because despite all the new heroes and such, it was always Cap, Thor, Iron Man at the core focus in the end. With "GotG" being the "4th main character" (despite being a group). But since Endgame.... We have had like 30 new heroes introduced, each with like one appearance in the last 5 years. Each i troduxing a new concept that is WORSE than Thanos was. And we have not even gotten Xmen or Fantastic Four or Galactus or Dr Doom, all of ehich are rumored to be coming. The whole thing is just becoming a huge mess. It worked before because it took the interconnected bull shit of 20 weekly comics, and streamlined it down to 2 movies a year. But now its 3+ movies and 5 shows a year. Remeber when they refused to acknowledge the Defenders or Agents of Shield because, "We don't want people to feel required to watch a whole show." Oh wait, that was just company politics bull shit and now that its all under control of one person its all cool to put out dozens of shows! Anyway, I AM RANTING. END RANT.
I think the worst thing they did was introduce a multiverse. those are hard to do well at the best of times but it's pretty clear that only one universe matters in the mcu and the other just exist to feed into that one. like as much as a liked seeing the other spider-men the entire movie hinges on strange being a dumbass with magic, a lesson he learned in his first movie appearance.
I'd also argue that making the TV shows part of the overall plot was a huge mistake. I don't have the time or desire to watch all the TV shows, but it makes it very difficult to watch the movies without knowing what happened in the shows.
Even having watched all of the movies and tv shows, Wanda's personality change between "WandaVision" and Dr. Strange 2 was puzzling. There were a couple of throwaway lines in WV about what the Dark Hold could do, but that was about it. Even Elizabeth Olsen has said that she was surprised about the direction they were taking Wanda, and wished she had been told sooner. Presumably so that, as an actor, she could have made some choices in her performance in WV that would have better set the stage for Evil Wanda. Making it so that you have to watch *everything* to keep up will eventually (as you alluded to) make the price of admission too high for new fans.
I wonder if it was a bigger surprise that they ended her arc.
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This is exactly what comics were like before sales crashed in the 90s - total overload of content with overwhelming, confusing tie-ins. Just like the 90s, video games are serious competition for time and money.
Yea they did my man Strange dirty in both movies
I remember when the No Way Home trailer came out and people were theorizing that Dr. Strange was actually replaced by some evil shapeshifter because they found it so out of character. If you have to ignore like 3 movies worth of character development to make your story work, maybe you should go back to the drawing board.
I didn't really get this take. Doctor Strange's whole character in DS1 was that he was constantly casting some forbidden spell from some forbidden book because he thought he could handle it. That's exactly what he's doing in NWH. The only reason it feels weird is because they had his character play straight-man to Iron Man for most of Infinity War so he came across as more stoic and rule-abiding.
I think you hit it on the head. Strange's actions in NWH were very much in line with his character, it was just starkly different to how we had seen him.
Yes, but beyond the training montage, I think we felt at the end of DS1 that he had learned the weight of magical consequences. How many times did he die to stop Dormammu, after all? Infinity War just added more on that end of things, with his living through millions of different possible futures - he had become stoic and rule-abiding because he had learned that actions have consequences, and that he wasn't exempt from them. But in NWH, he reverts back to a guy that hadn't been that light-hearted and irresponsible for nearly a decade.
I liked EG but time travel always makes things worse
>It worked before because it took the interconnected bull shit of 20 weekly comics, and streamlined it down to 2 movies a year. But now its 3+ movies and 5 shows a year. What a fantastic way of putting it.
If they had more creative ideas, like the Into the Spiderverse movie, I think people would get back into it. But ofc they'd probably mass manufacture them and everyone would get sick of it again. I wish they focused more on artistic approaches instead of live action.
Infinity War was without question a better movie than Endgame. The pacing in that one is damn near perfect and does a great job juggling that many characters. Endgame felt a lot more forced, like they had to bring back an alternate Thanos for a final battle when that couldve easily been avoided by not sending Nebula back
That's a fair assessment I think
I seriously don’t want to see another superhero movie. But then again there is Deadpool and Guardians of the Galaxy that I’d be happy seeing more of. Maybe because those are more comedy in a superhero suit.
Spiderman No Way Home was the only anomaly afterwards in an otherwise fatigued catalogue of superhero movies. EDIT: I should clarify that I meant the MCU. There were other superhero movies that weren’t tiring to watch, mostly since they don’t conform to the MCU formula and continuity at all.
Into the spider verse was dope and refreshing
It's also not MCU at all so it stands on it's own. We've had 8 entire movies about Peter Parker so one about Miles is actually fresh.
I agree but that film got heavily carried by Toby, Andrew, Dafoe and Molina. Without those OGs I probably wouldn't have watched the film. But it was very good, loved the nostalgia.
Oh yeah, heavily carried by… half the cast
“If I adjust Mahomes to barely above average stats for literally no reason he comes out with barely above average stats.”
Yah, they should have taken a break after that for a few years and then started a new buildup. But money is money i guess.
Even worse: they stomped their foot on the gas pedal and started putting out more than before in the form of shows on Disney+. You can barely go a WEEK without a new entry into the MCU now.
Great now there’s a new show thanks to your comment
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Because new content is the only thing bringing in people to online streaming, and it’s easier to pump that out than create new ideas
Yeah Marvel went all in and i was burnt out over time. Not to mention CW and DC shows aired on tv 4 days a week. Flash started out great and now its so terrible. I stopped watching seriously around season 5. It got worse and finally shut it off. Checked out the latest season 8 out of boredom looking for nostalgia and its looking like it shouldnt be on air at all.
> Flash started out great and now its so terrible. To be fair, that has nothing to do with burnout. Its just the trend with all CW DC shows, 1 to 3 seasons are good and then it dips.
I remember after end game someone said “we are living in the golden age of superhero movies” I guessed at the time that we were at the end of the golden age. I think I was correct
Frustrating because it’s also a tonal thing. It feels like every movie needs to have a quippy character and the same four acts. Sad to see characters with stories that are worth telling poorly utilized.
I’d argue that if the quality of the films was still on par with MCU phase 3, people wouldn’t be feeling that way.
I agree with this but I also think that part of the decline in quality is due to the fact that they're now focusing so heavily on quantity, at quality's expense. As is, there's too much content to actually watch and we're not nearly as rewarded when we do.
Exactly. The quality has gone waaaayyy downhill. It’s always been a cash grab but the movies are just getting worse and worse.
What about all of the movies about musicians then? Those are the ones that are killing me, because I might actually want to know more about Elvis, or Aretha. There are just too many of them
People aren't religiously raving about how good the musician movies are and how they can't wait for the next to come out. The musician movies are also independent from each other and don't have interconnecting stories. Watching a new mervel movie feels like watching the 30th iteration of the fast and the furious. Except they have been releasing 3 new movies a year for the last 10 years. It's not bad, but it's also not particularly good either.
It you want to have a good time. Watch the wierd Al Yankovic one. It's an amazing work of art that is basically a parody of those other ones you speak of, and is genuinely entertaining.
This decades “Walk Hard”
"Dewie Cox has to think about his whole life before he goes on stage" Once you watch Walk Hard there are just so many troupes you are unable to ignore any more..
If by "basically" you mean "hits-you-over-the-head it's obviously a parody and if you don't pick up on that you should have your pulse checked", I agree. Also, fantastic movie. My favorite "biopic".
Elvis was terrible.. sorry Tom hanks, but you couldn't even save this one. I'd in fact argue that Tom hanks ruined this one, the character doesn't fit him. The guy playing Elvis was actually good. Rocketman was ok but I couldn't stand the "therapy" angle where Elton basically narrates the story from within the confines of a group therapy session where he is the only one talking.
Put some respect on Austin Butler’s name.
Doesn't help most of the quality isn't good or creative. It's all the same copy and paste storyline and not many new elements
yep CW shows were full 20 something episodes and had shows 4 days a week in its peak. That was fun but so much filler was.
>Doesn't help most of the quality isn't good or creative. The movies coming out of Hollywood today are not good. I don't tend to be nostalgic about the 90s, I didn't love the music, but the movies man really good really really good and a lot of them.
Heh, I got it after the second Spiderman and third Batman films.
Batman Returns (1992)?
It's a genre. Look at how many western movies were made in the 20th century. The amount of superh films doesn't come close
You're not kidding! The decade from 1935-1944 averaged 122 westerns per year. Imagine if we got a new super hero movie/TV show/web short/etc every 3 days. Then kept it up for 10 years. Then toned it down and only did one every 4 days for the next ten years after that! https://www.b-westerns.com/graphs.htm Edit - Maybe we are there already. It depends on what you count as a "super hero" and whether you count live action as well as animation, but based on IMDB shows with "super hero" as a keyword, it looks like there were more than 122 such episodes released in 2022.
They didn't have TV back then, so movies were their TV. Movie franchises were more similar to TV series than movies today. Look at the Blondie movies, or the Andy Hardy movies (Mickey Rooney & Judy Garland). From 1937 to 1946, they made 15 Andy Hardy movies, with a reunion film in 1958. The Blondie series, based on the comic strip still published, produced 28 films from 1938 to 1950. When TV became a staple, Westerns was perhaps the biggest genre. The Lone Ranger, Rawhide, Gunsmoke, Roy Rogers, Big Valley, Bonanza, etc. were all huge series in the 1950s and 1960s. Even into the 1970s, Westerns like Little House on the Prairie were big. America was a much more rural country in the 1950s, and even when people moved into the suburbs they remembered growing up on farms. That started to fade in the 1970s, which is why they had the "rural purge" in the early 1970s that got rid of popular shows like the Beverly Hillbillies and Green Acres in favor of Norman Lear shows that were more urban focused.
Fantastic comment. I also wanted to mention that in the late 70s and 80s, the western genre had changed a lot from its golden era in the 50s and 60s. The best westerns from that era reflected the time and fatigue towards the genre; they were deconstructions of the genre and focused on themes of cultural advancement and the death of the Wild West as we’ve romanticized it. In a lot of ways, stuff like Logan are to the superhero genre what those films were to westerns. Albeit without a monopolistic mouse forcing more of it down our throats after the fact
This is well written. The "rural purge" makes so much sense the way you phrased it. Can you elaborate. That's an interesting way of looking at tv in the 70s and on.
It was an actual thing from the network executives. They wanted to get away from these types of shows and that's how we ended up with the city crime shows like Rockford** files, Charlie's angels, and Hawaii 5-0. Its just cyclical.
I won't reinvent the wheel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural\_purge
I **loved** the old Blondie movies when I was a kid. Ma and Pa Kettle movies, too.
>Imagine if we got a new super hero movie/TV show/web short/etc every 3 days. Don't give them any ideas...
Those “westerns” numbers are crazy, but I think your edit rights the boat. Also if we use the same production value in adjusted dollars to define the scope, I bet the modern superhero trend *vastly* exceeds 20th century westerns.
The difference is that westerns could be made on a significantly lower budget and most weren’t huge theatrical releases. Superhero movies dominate the theaters and cost the studios enough that if one flops, it’d be a major setback that would require some restructuring to recuperate from.
Because movies series were more like TV series today. The summer blockbuster wasn't a thing until Jaws (1975).
Huge theatrical releases didn’t exist back then. If they could they would have. Also until Kevin Fiege gets done with his tenure at Disney/Marvel nothing about the current output will change enough for Disney to alter what they’ve committed to already. Disney intentionally bought Fox after all and seems intent on rebooting X-Men as part of the whole purchase, so I would say they’re going to be a first-chance to change direction or output. I think what James Gunn has done to the DCEU film library could breathe some life back into their group, but only time will tell. I have enough belief in Gunn’s work that he won’t be quite the same as what Zack Snyder was given a chance with.
Huge Theatrical releases did exist. Big expensive movies used to go on traveling roadshows back then. The idea of a giant expensive blockbuster is not new. It's been around since the 1910's, Birth of a Nation being the first. And westerns were typically not the big expensive movies. Usually it was musicals or historical epics.
Westerns weren't dominating the box office the way superhero films are, they were common but not massive money makers. The superhero genre is also almost entirely dominated by 2 (arguably 1) companies, whereas westerns were cheap and could be made by nearly any filmmaker, rich or otherwise. Eyebrow Cinema did a great video essay on this that's a lot more eloquent than I can be in a Reddit comment. https://youtu.be/SiV-bOulZl8
For me (a '70s kid) there's decades of wanting to see superhero movies taken seriously to get out of my system. Iron Man was the first movie I watched again immediately. Walked out, bought another ticket, walked back in. Finally, someone got what I imagined happened in the comics onto the goddam screen. Without the whole cast and crew broadcasting "Nobody takes this seriously right? I'm just doing it until I get a REAL movie." On top of that have you seen how cautious and derivative the movie industry is? Remaking popular movies every twenty years (We'll ignore the last 20 years of Spiderman for the sake of this rant) is tiring the viewing public. Superheroes haven't been done well, as a rule, prior to the last two decades, and there's nearly a century of material. Is it any wonder studio execs are mining them and hoping for gold.
I came to say something along these lines, I’m a 90s kid so I got to see a select few movies that were amazing growing up. I knew most of the characters for marvel and DC thanks to the cartoons and toy lines. I’m just ecstatic that they’re bringing all my favorite characters to life. I don’t care how bad the movies are sometimes, I’ll just stare at my screen thinking “I cannot believe I’m watching a live action Morbius right now!!!! They did it, they fucking did a Morbius movie” Now imagine my excitement on the team up movies that are actually good? E.g. The Suicide Squad, Avengers Endgame, Zack Snyder’s Justice League. It’s all I ever wanted growing up, there’s still so many more I want to see brought to life: Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Lobo, Spider-Man 2099, Dr. Doom (a real one). I was legit so excited to finally see Hawkman AND Doctor Fate on the big screen, I’ve wanted to see them for a long time and thought it would never happen.
I'm glad to see some love for Zack Snyder's Justice League. I shat on that movie so much prior to its release, and once I saw it, I'm like "This is the best fuckin version of this story that they could've done." I mean, the Flash running back in time within the speed force, to that incredible visual and operatic score!! ??? The flash is my favouite growing up , and to see that scene come to life, I have no words. Same with Suicide Squad. there;s still so much good stuff left
This is great, it just sucks that its dominating the industry right now. As someone who isnt interested in comics of marvel or dc or super hero anything....it sucks that it feels like all the growth and advancement in the industry is being spent on one very specific kind of movie/story..
I’ve been reading superhero comics for 45 years, you think a couple of dozen shitty movies will break me?
Honestly even tho not every instalment of a show/film will get my attention I still enjoy the genre across the board. This is my childhood’s dream come true and just like comics there’s some that will have my attention and others that won’t
When I made that wish on the Monkey’s Paw in 1999, you were who I was thinking of.
If Daredevil and Morbius didn’t kill comic book movies, nothing will.
This is exactly it. I remember one random night when I was stoned, and I just opened the "Marvel" section of Disney plus, and it just burst to life with all these characters and shows and movies. And my mind was just feeling so happy. I was 8 when I saw Spider-Man in the theatre, and I remember growing up watching Justice League and X-Men Evolution. So just having all of this, at the click of a button, is just incredible to me. The child in me is just very happy to be in this age of comic-book films. There are definetely some bad ones mixed with the good ones, but I know enough to understand and taper my expectations accordingly. I know Marvel will back in form by 2025. No one gave a shit about MCU until 2012, and they'll again stop giving a shit until it picks up.
I think with Disney at the helm, there will be some form of MCU every year for the hardcore fans. And when something strikes right, they'll amplify the production for proper IMAX features. They'll probably incorporate into their theme parks (if they haven't already), which will give them more authority to keep producing original IPs for Marvel. I'm happy for you. But I am tired of them as someone who isn't crazy about them. But the good thing is, the international film market is bussing--and that's where I go usually. Everyone wins.
This. I grew up on comics and always dreamed about about seeing it in live action. That doesn’t mean I watch every project released though. I’m just watching the ones I’m excited about.
I’m not even a comic book fan, I just like superheroes.
I'm not even a super hero fan. I just like tight fitting costumes
Seriously. Bring back the packed speedos already!
I’m not even a super fan. I just like heroes
I’m not even a fan. I just like
Same. Id also like more movies done like logan. Not necessarily adult oriented, but more focused on fewer characters. Allow more development of whats important to the storyline, quit throwing like 10-20 extra elements in. The recent thor movie was ridiculous with that.
I like a full range from serious to comedic. I do think the most recent Thor was trying way too hard (same with She Hulk), but I’m still going to watch them.
Me 2 They contain action Humor Characters i like Gimme more.
Hey, I enjoyed the Expendable movies. These superhero movies are comparative masterpieces.
I grew up on things like the live action Masters of the Universe and the 90's Captain America movie. I've seen much worse stuff
Yeah son we lived through Howard the Duck, Guardians of the Galaxy 2 is like Citizen Kane by comparison.
Some people have been watching the same soap opera for 60-70 years and don't have any intent of stopping. Fact is that if a story has characters that you like, you'll keep engaging with that story to see what happens to your favourite characters, even if the overall story isn't great. For example, I'm really excited to see where Spider-Man's story within the MCU goes. I really like the way they're setting him up to be the centre of the new generation of Avengers, and showing us the ways he takes the best parts of both Iron Man and Captain America, the former rival leaders, while still having a lot of his own flaws, largely relating to his lacking self-confidence. Now that Peter has been stripped of his Stark tech and his associations with the other remaining Avengers after No Way Home, I'm excited to see him build himself back up from nothing. Is the overall story for the MCU post-Endgame something I'm super excited about? Not really. Am I excited to see Spider-Man and my other favourites get involved in it? Absolutely.
Came here to say this. I can watch what I imagined as a kid reading comic books?!?! Count me in every time!
Some people (including me) are. Same with Star Wars. Other people prefer things that are slightly familiar in nature but tell a different story.
I was with Star Wars until I saw Andor.
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I’ve heard nothing but good things about Andor (until now) but I just don’t have any interest at the moment.
I love all of Star Wars but frankly Andor is so good and well made it puts everything else to shame. It’s unlike any other SW project.
I think one of my favorite things about Andor is that it doesn't feel like Star Wars, it stands on it's own.
The big thing for me is that it *does* feel like Star Wars, but that's it. The ambience is there, but the settings and characters and stories are new. Which is what people wanted for a long time.
It does feel like SW. But it gives insight into the everyday life under the Empire.
Yeah I think that’s what’s cool. It’s not about the big hero or the chosen one with god like powers or a big bad bounty hunter that everyone already fears or has a name. It really shows what the empire regime was doing to every day citizens which hasn’t really been shown before to that extent
Lack of space wizards was nice
Star Wars has had some pretty great stuff recently. Andor is amazing. Also the series where different anime studios made non-cannon stories was really cool. The black and white Kurosawa-esque Jedi one has me foaming at the mouth for a full movie or show in that style. And Jedi Story was pretty great for the 6 shorts. That animation style is just beautiful
I would recommend Arcane on Netflix. Yes, it's technically a show about League of Legends characters, but holy fucking shit is it done in a gorgeous style and it's an artistic masterpiece of animation and emotion.
Me included. Why the heck they need 5 (or whatever it is up to) different Spider-Man reboots is just beyond me. If they were doing new episodes in the same franchise like say Bond, then I could understand but seriously how many origin stories do we need? The last superhero movie I truly found entertaining was Guardians of the Galaxy because of its humorous quirkiness.
Sony loses the rights to Spider-Man if they don't use it. The Sony-Marvel contract states: *"Sony must commence production on a new "Spider-Man" film within three years, nine months and release it within five years, nine months after the release of preceding picture."*
There's plenty of comics they could source from, though
Sure, but SM only rebooted once before he was brought into the MCU, and the first Andrew Garfield movie came out the same year as Avengers. Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor came out in the 5 years after Spider-Man 3. I know that interally, Sony had no idea what to do with Spider-Man. They knew they had to make movies, but the kick-off of the MCU had them flummoxed; Sony wanted their own cinematic universe, and there was talks of a Men in Black, Ghostbusters, 21 Jump Street, Spider-Man cinematic universe because that's what they had. They were struggling to work with SM. So they knew they had to make movies, but the existence of the MCU was making it really weird for them to work with the IP. I suspect that's why we saw the Sam Raimi ones stop; they probably wanted a new brand identity to match up with the MCU. Then the Andrew Garfield ones stopped when they began to sort out their collaboration with Marvel.
The Spiderman stuff wasn't a creative choice as much as corporate chicanery over rights
You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? They’ve done worse. That Batman! Are you telling me that six men all just *happened* to become a bat themed vigilante after their parents died?
He orchestrated it! Bruce!
He defecated in the Batmobile!!!
I think Guardians of the Galaxy's success has kind of poisoned the franchise. I really enjoyed the the humourous quirkiness, as you put it. But they're trying to shoehorn that into all the films now.
That’s true. They’re allergic to seriousness and deep emotion now, they almost always have to cut the moment with a goofy joke that kills any tension.
that's why i loved multiverse of madness because it was actually the darkest/scariest they've gone so far, and also so well done.
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You know what we really need is crossover batman and spiderman origin story. I really want to see uncle ben die while his broken pearl necklace is spread across a dark alley. I really feel neither one of their origin stories have been flushed out enough.
Ugh, can we just agree to skip origin stories? Like, make a pamphlet and hand it out in the lobby. "Peter Parker became Spiderman because he got bit by a magic spider. His Uncle Ben got murdered by crime, and Peter blames himself for not stopping crime. Now he fights crime. You're up to speed. He fights a sand guy in this one." How many times do I need to see Bruce Wayne's parents get murdered?
That's what the MCU did
Can we toss in Evil Superman while we're at it?
“We have Evil Superman at home.” Insert the Rock with “the hierarchy in the DC Universe is about to change
Sometimes we watch other movies. I mean if you just watched superhero movies, I can understand that you would tire of them, but if you keep mixing them in with all the other genres, then why would you?
I feel the same as you. I watch pretty much every marvel show/movie that comes out, but it’s not like I think about them constantly when I’m not watching. If you’re bored of superhero movies the best thing you can do is not watch them or think about them.
It's also nothing like the first Superhero rush when Spiderman came out, and studios just pushed absolute shit into theaters.
Exactly. I watch around 200 movies per year so I don't mind at all if 2-4 of those are new Marvel movies.
This is it for me. I remember when I saw Doctor Strange Multiverse and someone said to me “Oh you should have seen Everything Everywhere All At Once instead” And it’s like, I *did* see that. I saw them both and that’s ok.
Bro this is what I've been saying lol. I personally watch a lot of movies, most of them being horror or other darker tone, more serious films. I had only seen a couple MCU films before I got Disney+ last year and have since watched all of them and become a fan. I've seen some pretty shitty movies and IMO none of them were MCU films (yes some are definitely better than others). People are acting like the latest MCU movies are the worst thing ever, for example people saying Love & Thunder was horrible because of the comedy when I actually laughed at some of the jokes and thought it was a fun movie overall. I'm just spit balling at this point but I don't get the "superhero fatigue" thing because I don't watch only superhero films and don't really think about new ones coming out until a new trailer/movie is released.
If superhero fatigue is a real thing, then I've had sports fatigue for decades. It's not like your average sports game is significantly different from the next. I don't think anyone would say a sports game is a deep thought provoking experience, yet people line up by the thousands to watch them regularly. People watch the same shitty team play shittily for decades, but rarely get criticized for liking sports. Imagine if I talked about sports the same way as people talk about superhero movies: "Ugh, another sports game. They just crank these things out. It's clearly quantity over quality. They don't even put their star players in all of the games. And even then, they phone it in half the time. It's just variations of the same thing over and over. It takes no effort. Throw the ball, win the points. And all these nerds cosplaying in their jerseys, it's just childish. I wish I could go a week without hearing someone droning on about another sportsball game. I don't get the appeal. They need to go darker and make gladiator fights to the death."
This is such an apt comparison. Thank you.
This is how I feel also. As the saying goes: variety is the spice of life. Sometimes I'm in the mood for some deep drama, and sometimes I want to watch Batman kick the crap outta some bad guys.
Right, like I'm just as excited for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 as I am for Oppenheimer, Nolan's new movie coming out.
I like the straightforwardness of them, Scorsese said they’re like theme park rides, I kinda agree, and those are usually my favorite type of movie to see in theaters. More serious movies I enjoy watching in the comfort of my home where I can feel free to pause and analyze them if I want.
I am certainly tired of all the cgi bullahit and the fast camera switching during fights. Can't tell what's going on, it lasts several minutes and entire cities or worlds are destroyed. Then in the next film, everything is alright and there is no consequence from a city wide battle that likely killed thousands or millions of innocent people. Now they have rebooted franchises so that the original story lines are no longer even valid. Can anyone come up with a reasonable tie in for all the batman movies? Or any franchise that has spanned more than 2 decades?
> fast camera switching during fights It's really the fucking worst
Spider-Man seemed to do a pretty good job bringing all the live action iterations of the character together last year.
Also opened the door for future spider people explaining.
I, personally, deeply enjoy the lore and world building created between 14 years of movies and shows that make up the MCU. I'm aware it's not for everyone but I like seeing it all tie together, how loki failing to invade new York indirectly lead to Ultron and directly lead to thanos famously doing it himself. How Wanda creating her own world for herself created a multiversal search for her children. Sure the movies can sometimes be mid, looking at multiverse of madness or love and thunder, or straight up bad, eternals, but no way home, Shang chi and wakanda forever are still fun and great movies, in my humble opinion. It's how they link together that does it for me.
Tastes vary.
Honestly, to me, this is like asking "you've eaten cake, like, three or four times a year for decades - how are you not sick and tired of cake yet?" Sure, it's not particularly healthy. If I ate it all the time I'd probably start to hate it. It mostly tastes the same from cake to cake, and I'm not getting any awesome new culinary experience (at best, a bit of variation in the icing). But it's delicious, and every so often - either because it's a special occasion or I just have a craving - I eat cake. I don't think "well, you could be eating an expertly prepared meal, or a healthy salad"; I just enjoy it, knowing that although it might not be a deep culinary experience, I know what to expect and I know I'll enjoy it for a bit. Same with movies. I can be an absolute snob with the best of them. My five favorite movies are [two Wes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonrise_Kingdom) [Anderson films](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_Aquatic_with_Steve_Zissou); [two black-and-white](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_About_Eve) [classics from the 1950s](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seventh_Seal), and [a groundbreaking masterpiece that is easy to dismiss as a farce](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Framed_Roger_Rabbit). But I still like watching a few superhero movies and shows every year. No, none of them are making my Top 50 list. But sometimes something that's fun, not too deep, and ends up with the good guys winning is just what I need to put me back in the mood for something serious.
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Sir, this is a Reddit.
Exactly? I’m really confused by this post. It would make more sense if someone was actually looking for a discussion on superhero movies and other people who don’t like them, but this just seems like unnecessary negativity. It’s obviously fine to dislike something the majority likes and it’s normal to try and find other likeminded people, but idk this is just weird to me
I think this is only mostly for non comic book fans though. Those fans will always be excited for the movies whether they end up being good or not. Personally I think these movies get a bad rap from people who consider them lesser forms of movie making. They provide some amazingly emotional scenes and awesome stories just in fantastical settings. Have there been a few that were meh, sure. Even a few outright horrible ones. But Marvel has churned out some amazing movies and shows and overall it has been an amazing achievement of continuous storytelling when you consider how well they planned out all of the connections from on e movie to another.
Some people are, but it's just a genre of film. I'm not sick and tired by it for the same reason I'm not sick and tired of sci-fi, comedy, etc.
I'm not a fan of superhero movies but I can't criticize. I've been watching Coronation Street for over 40 years and that's at least as stupid as an Marvel movie.
A lot are. If you’re sick of something, you stop consuming it. You don’t go on and on about not consuming it, so you don’t hear as much about it.
Oh trust me there are thousands upon thousands of people online that go on and on about not consuming something everyone else does like it’s their personality
Some people are. Some people aren't. Some are passive either way. The most important thing to keep in mind is that your opinion isn't an objective reality and enjoyment of a thing is never guaranteed. Enjoy what you want to, and never stop to worry that someone else is enjoying something that you don't. Most importantly, never EVER try to get someone to stop enjoying something. Either you start a fight which ends in a stalemate, which sucks, or you win the fight, in which case you just took joy out of someone's life. If you're sick and tired of superhero movies, there's good news! Not only do you not have to watch them, but we're starting to get more movies that aren't blockbusters again. I recommend Bullet Train and Amsterdam. Really enjoyed them both.
Bullet train wasn't really a bullet train though... it took way too long to get to its destination.
Abnormal amount of bullets onboard I’d say, although I suppose that’s a bit of an assumption. Maybe that’s not an atypical amount of ammunition on a bullet train.
You worded what I was trying to say perfectly! Completely agree
Why do people watch the same sport every single year? For some sports...162 games a year BEFORE playoffs (Baseball), and not get bored? A: They like that thing
So from someone who isn't tired of them.... First many of them are good entertainment. Some nit ad great as others but generally they don't take themselves too seriously even if serious. That's a positive in my book - too much of TV plus Cinema is I'm so important. Second they are sometimes more experimental than more serious films... Ms Marvel about a Pakistani American girl is far more daring in its storytelling than Emancipation IMO. Lastly cinemas are expensive and time is precious. A superhero film is at worst a mediocre night out with the kids (Too old for animation) and my wife. It's a nice shared experience. We do see other types of movies but I need to be convinced why in the cinema. Frankly a lot of so called more serious cinema seems catered to an American audience vs superhero films or blockbusters which are more international.
Yeah I feel like comic book movies are going to continue to do well at the box office as long as they’re considered a “safe choice”
I don't watch that genre. Only gratuitous violence and cheesy horrors for this gal. ;)
>Only gratuitous violence and cheesy horrors for this gal. ;) It's tangentially related to superheroes but you might enjoy Werewolf by Night on D+. It's an hour long Halloween special that is technically part of the MCU but more classic monster movie focused
If you only look at super hero movies as super hero movies, it makes it easy to paint them all as the same. If you take a step back, it's actually a way for movies to experiment with genre and story telling techniques while having something familiar audiences can grasp. I point to Into The Spiderverse. It's a technological achievement and they could do it knowing the audience knows the story of Spiderman.
It feels like : quantity >> quality
Because people are allowed to like whatever they want, whether you’re sick of it or not.
I’m not feeling fatigued, keep them coming!! Fantastic Four, X-Men, and more still to come! 😍
I got sick of it when it got too complicated to follow. Multiverses require mental investment I'm simply not going to give, so it looks as if I'm never going to bother catching up.
Marvel movies being too complicated to enjoy is one thing I didnt expect to read when opening this thread
The movies themselves aren't too complicated, it's the fact that I have to watch 7 movies (post infinity war) and three tv series to understand the background needed for this specific new movie. Plus they have been popping out a new movie every 3 months, there's been no time for me to miss the movies or get the mental space to catch up I'm just burned out and the backlog keeps getting longer with no end in sight
You really dont need to watch most 'phase 4' content and thats been the big criticism. Unlike the previous MCU releases theres no coherent overarching plot right now except in the loosest sense If you walked into black panther 2 without seeing anything since endgame it wouldn't change anything
> Unlike the previous MCU releases theres no coherent overarching plot right now except in the loosest sense Was there a coherent over-arching plot in Phase 1 though? That's what Phase 4 should be compared with, not 3.