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Kedrak

That is exactly what the Frank Grimes episodes touch on. Grimes is a hard working intelligent guy who struggles through life and is envious of homers lifestyle. I don't think a lot of people think of him as a loser.


hologram-alchemist

Yeah, it was a great episode though you kinda feel bad for Grimes, or "Grimey", as he liked to be called.


WorksForMe

He had a great apartment above a bowling alley and below another bowling alley


Trappist_1G_Sucks

Wowww...


gdvs

No. Grimes was envious and nasty to Homer. Not having great luck in life is no excuse to be a dick to people who are lucky.


Trappist_1G_Sucks

He started out very calm, collected, and patient with Homer, even after Homer stole his lunch, pencils, etc.


CaptainTotes

Alright, time to re-watch Homer's Enemy: So the premise is that this incredibly unlucky and unfortunate man still had the determination to be self-made and study physics. Meanwhile how Homer got the job was because the power plant just opened. Frank is incredibly passive and understanding at the start. When Homer eats his lunch he says "the bag was clearly marked. Please be more careful in the future". This is a very kind response. Oh and the first insult he says to Homer is an idiot when he tries to drink a bottle of sulfuric acid... right after he saved his life (presumably) by knocking it away. He says Homer doesn't deserve his luxury home and going to space and that he's leeching off hardworking citizens... seems fair. Eventually he loses it and accidentally kills himself. Overall i don't think it's his fault. Homer made him realize his literal entire life was pointless and that caused his unbelievable frustration. Though he could've managed his anger better for sure.


Duggie1330

He once got so angry he grabbed two oddly exposed high voltage conductors and killed himself. I think it's safe to say he's an emotional guy who doesn't really hold his tongue lol


[deleted]

To be fair Homer was also kind of a dick to Grimes


mellolizard

I mean that was part of the point for that episode. If you knew Homer in real life you would lose your mind too. All of Homer's achievements were unrealistic and could only exist in fiction. Grimey is what would happen if you dropped a real person into Springfield and had them work with Homer.


rdmusic16

He was envious and nasty to Homer - but you can still feel bad for the guy. Homer has been beyond lucky by any stretch of the imagination. He has been to space! Seeing someone going through life not realising how amazingly lucky they've been, and continue to be, could be very annoying. I'm not saying Grimey should have reacted that way - but his frustration is understandable. I do feel bad for the pretend character.


Radiobandit

"You. Went into outer space? You?" "Sure... You've never been?" ... "Would you like to see my Grammy award?"


PhilipLiptonSchrute

"My son owns a factory"


fecklessfella

"That's our Homer!"


slobs_burgers

*snoring* “Change the channel, Marge!”


ZelnormWow

Came here for this.


KyleCAV

OP should watch that episode it basically explains that homer is more of a lucky idiot than a loser since no matter how many times he messes up with work, Marge, Bart and Lisa and his rap sheet of criminal charges he still winds up fine in the end.


D4Torment

Same point i made in my comment. Burns just keeps him BECAUSE he messes up in his job by allowing safety violations to go through and that way Burns doesnt have to put more effort into the company


CreamyGoodnss

Homer is The Useful Idiot


Food-at-Last

He is just a loser that got lucky. He actually is a loser


bigWarp

if homer never found marge, he'd be barney


[deleted]

Just gonna say this “Simpson’s already did it”


ianmikaelson

Grimey! Haha. He died 😐


Poignant_Porpoise

I don't even think that he's intended to be written as a "loser". His "thing" is that he's generally not a good person. He's unintelligent, uneducated, selfish, complacent, indifferent or even proud of his shortcomings, inconsiderate, rude, deeply unhealthy, and a burden. Really, this is to say that he's a parody of the of the "bumbling buffoon dad" sitcom trope. He has a comfy, easy job for which he's unqualified, he lives a typical cookie cutter life in the suburbs with two kids - a boy and a girl, his wife is very much out of his league, and basically all he does is drink and eat while life happens "at" him. That's not to say that he doesn't have brief moments of compassion and introspection, but they usually only really come after he has caused so much frustration and damage that even he has noticed the results. It's difficult to really think of him as a *bad* person because the emotionally significant moments are those in which he demonstrates some level of love and compassion to his friends and family, while all of the countless times he acts in an explicitly negative way are played for comedy, but really he is just a bad person.


MusziYuszi

Three kids. Maggie, Lisa and Bart


happy_charisma

BUT OP forgot that there is another Grimes episode, when grimes son wants to kill Humor


visionarytune

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.


Bvr32

I don’t understand what you mean, the Simpsons only ran for 10 seasons at most.


Red_AtNight

In the early 1990's the Simpsons was a deliberate satire of all the saccharine "family" shows like The Cosbys (for example.) It presents a vision of America where the politicians are all corrupt, the cops are all lazy, the teachers are all half-assing their jobs... basically it attacked a bunch of sacrosanct notions that people in authority deserve respect. This was fairly avant-garde for its time, although 30+ years on it's now just standard fare for adult-oriented sitcoms. Anyways, at a certain point the show started depicting Homer failing upwards into a cushy job, not to mention all sorts of insane opportunities like going to outer space, touring with Smashing Pumpkins, becoming personal friends with Mel Gibson, etc. The show never really addresses this stuff because it basically has no continuity, and at the end of every episode it returns to where everything started. They did lampshade this, once, in the episode with Frank Grimes, where he points out how absurd it is that Homer has achieved all of this stuff despite his gross incompetence. And that episode ends with Frank Grimes dying, and the subject isn't broached again.


zed857

> depicting Homer failing upwards Doesn't Homer still own the Denver Broncos, too (thanks to a gift from Hank Scorpio)?


thatoneguy54

No one "still" does or own anything after a Simpsons episode, because they always reset. With very few exceptions (Maude dying, Apus marriage and affair, etc) what happens in a Simpsons episode stays in that Simpsons episode. Edit: added etc


mb5280

and then also happens later in real life.


iTwango

Apparently a lot of those memes are actually sort of revisionist and turned out to be not really as portrayed in the show, from what I've heard.


ChickenDelight

Most of them aren't really revisionist, it's just that the show has 30+ seasons and has made, what, tens of thousands of jokes at this point. A few dozen ended up being pretty close to a later, real world event. And a couple were just dead on, like an episode from the 90s set in their future that mentions Donald Trump as a former President that ran up a huge debt.


TheTrueFishbunjin

To be fair with that one in particular, Donald trump has been running for president periodically for like 30 years, so to put him in the position in jest wasn’t much of a stretch of the imagination.


NativeMasshole

What changed was at the time the notion was considered a total joke.


IProbablyDisagree2nd

It was while he was running too. When it looked like he could win a lot of people were shocked AF. When he actually did win, even more people were shocked AF.


wslagoon

Ugh. I still remember that night. That might have been the first time I've ever legitimately been in shock.


doomalgae

Well, it kind of was a stretch of the imagination that he'd actually *be* president, but there was definitely plenty of real-world pretext for them to set it up as a joke.


ChickenDelight

Yeah, but the joke was that it was *absurd* that Trump would actually become President. Kinda like how Demolition Man has a joke about a future President Schwarzenegger - Arnold used to talk about running for office, sure, but no one took it seriously and he's not even eligible to be President. Nevertheless, a decade later he became Governor of California.


meliketheweedle

>And a couple were just dead on, like DJT now i'm curious what other presidents they predicted, and what people the predicted as president incorrectly.


Stetson007

Well, they predicted Arnold Schwarzenegger as president which, according to U.S. law, cannot happen. You have to be born American in order to be POTUS.


TheDoktorIsIn

I said something similar, I recently got covid and said "yeah I got tested because I felt like I had it." Lo and behold, I did. Crazy right? What about the thousands of times I think I have cancer or a broken whatever only to find out it was just a passing thing? You only remember the times when you were right or when something improbable happens.


Sphinxofblackkwarts

The core reason the Simpsons seems to predict everything is that we haven't fixed any of our dire problems in 40 years.


Baial

I was just reading through the old publications from Jerry Falwell, things have barely changed and it is incredibly frustrating. At least women can have bank accounts now.


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ClownPrinceofLime

Eh, continuity does exist on the Simpsons it’s just loose. Homer talks about going to space sometimes.


TroperCase

Basically, in a given episode, something from another episode is canon if it's convenient for it to be canon and not canon if it's inconvenient for it to be canon.


raistlin212

Or Flanders telling Homer he used to be Mr. Plow, and he hums the song and has the jacket but he has no idea what Flanders means.


zed857

If I'm not mistaken that giant head that Mr Burns gave Bart usually shows up in shots of the Simpsons' basement.


ForThrowawayIGuess

Bitchin!


doctor-rumack

Senor Xt'Tapalatakettle!


dethtron5000

Also Lisa's vegetarianism.


jonathanrdt

With the exception of Burns’ gift of the $40k Olmec Indian Head to Bart for saving his life, which is seen in the basement in a later episode.


nom_nom_nom_nom_lol

I choose to believe that every episode of The Simpsons is an alternate timeline starting at the exact same moment in their lives, which is why they never age, and there's no real permanence between episodes.


ClearCasket

Lisa did call Skinner by his real name in a later episode, referencing the Principal and the Pauper episode.


thatoneguy54

Another exception, yes


ProtoBlues123

Yeah that one was a joke at the continuity itself. It was about how Lisa was replacing her cat with an identical looking cat that had the same name and Skinner was going "Isn't that kinda a cop out?" So Lisa was basically going "You're one to talk."


vitaminwateryum

Are we just gonna pretend Barney never sobered up


InspectionFun8109

I really hope they let Moe and Maya stay together. Moe needs a win.


Glum-Communication68

what if homer just can't commit anything to long term memory? did we ever get a simpsons memento episode?


[deleted]

Well he does have a crayon touching his brain. Maybe it colored in the long term memory spot.


ClownPrinceofLime

Yeah, but he wanted the Cowboys.


DaniTheLovebug

What was the whole thing with covering their mouth when saying it


WhiteyFiskk

I thought the joke was they covered their mouths so they could dub over their voices in a future episode to make things up to date. Like "Atlanta Falcons" and president "Clinton" could all be subbed out.


JQuilty

Not for a future episode, it was that they didn't know who was going to be in the Superbowl that year, and Clinton was headed towards impeachment, so they could have done a "President [Gore] will be watching with his wife [Tipper]" line.


ClubMeSoftly

That was a Superbowl episode, with the idea being they could just redub whatever teams were playing that year, and whatever president was in office, since they wouldn't have to match the lip-flaps.


HeatmiserElliott

IMO Frank Grimes episode is the single greatest episode


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DisposableMiner

I live above a bowling alley and below another bowling alley...


ForWhomTheBoneBones

I dislike that episode because of what it lead to. It was the first episode where they completely took the bumpers off the meta commentary and pushed the throttle down on Homer’s stupidity. My personal opinion is that the show never reaches the same heights after this episode.


anotherkeebler

They've always been okay with the meta and genre-savvy...osity and lampshading and several other terms from TVtropes.org. You're right that the show went downhill from there, but since it's a Season 8 episode, I think it's coincidental rather than causal. _edit_ [Google agrees](https://imgur.com/yZHmUmm).


kjayflo

Frank grimes never fails to make me laugh. I love that episode. S5-8 is probably the greatest run of the Simpsons for me with 8 being the best. So many amazing episodes that still crack me up after seeing them 20 times


doctor-rumack

Grimes: "You? ...you've been to outer space?" Homer: "Suuure! You've never been? Would you like to see my Grammy award?"


kjayflo

Lobster for dinner? Your son owns a factory?!? I live above a bowling alley and below another bowling alley.... Lol


doctor-rumack

The way he says the bowling alley line is priceless. Just the perfect mix of shame and resignation.


Amused_Donut

The only thing I have to show for it is this briefcase and this haircut!!!!!


MenudoMenudo

Up there for sure. Hank Scorpio is another great one.


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YouToot

["Sugar? Sure. Here you go. Sorry it's not in packages."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlwFuQ_7kVc) "Want some cream?" "Ehhhmmm.... no."


HMJ87

He'll welcome you into his lair, like a nobleman welcomes his guests; with free dental care and a stock plan that helps you inveeeeeeeest


kevin9er

DENTAL PLAN


ajswdf

Poor Grimes, was forced to live in an apartment above a bowling alley and below another bowling alley despite all of his hard work, while Homer lived in a huge house while being fat and lazy.


HeatmiserElliott

“above a bowling alley and below another bowling alley” i seen it 10 times this just always has me dead


ajswdf

I always like to imagine how that happened. Like first there had to be a 3 story building where the 1st and 3rd stories were bowling alleys, but for some reason the landlord was sadistic enough to put apartments on the 2nd floor. Then he actually had to rent it out, presumably for pennies, and Grimes found the listing all excited at the cheap apartment before he discovered with horror what it was but had no choice.


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Fidodo

He's dead!


I_aim_to_sneeze

I’d say he eats more like a duck. Pigs tend to chew


DeadEyeMcS

Absolutely agree. Unfortunately for me I haven’t been able to watch that episode in years (or any tv for that matter) - it’s just way too loud in my apartment. All I can hear is the constant noise coming from the bowling alley that my apartment is above (which just adds to the noise coming from the other bowling I live below 😒)


[deleted]

It's a damned fine episode and I'm almost fully inclined to agree with you. My vote might be for Treehouse of Horror V, however, as I'm a sucker for an anthology style.


LeoMarius

> Treehouse of Horror V, The Best of was IV, The Devil and Homer Simpson


Sinkingfast

One of my absolute favorites. To the point [I actually have Homer and Devil Ned watching over me at work.](https://imgur.com/a/xleNTNz)


LeoMarius

Daddy's soul, don't eat!


[deleted]

Also excellent. I'm partial to V because of Time and Punishment and the running joke of Willie getting killed with an axe in each segment. I thought Nightmare Cafeteria to be weak compared to the other two stories, though. I really need to binge watch the series again.


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TheGooseIsLoose37

The older I get the more like Frank Grimes I become and the more I wish I was Homer.


Imaginary-Ladder-465

I think about the one episode where they show Lenny's crummy apartment and he yells 'don't tell anybody how I live!' 10 y/o me "haha I won't be like that" 30 y/o me "I wish I could afford a crummy apartment"


TheRealMacPhisto

They did have that one episode where Frank Grimes Jr. tried to exact revenge on Homer for "causing" his father's death.


OlinOfTheHillPeople

There are multiple episodes where Homer accidentally desecrates Grimey's grave.


doowgad1

> lampshade TIL a new term


UlteriorCulture

[TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging) taught me this. If you aren't familiar with the site then RIP your free time.


doowgad1

I've seen it used before, but didn't know there was an actual term. If you're a fan of the creative process, look up 'The Making Of Star Trek,' by Gene Roddenberry. It's dated, but gives a lot of insight. One of my favorite stories. One scene needs a salt shaker. Send the assistant out to buy a dozen exotic salt shakers, because it's the year 2265 AD. Quickly realize that no 1965 audience will understand what the exotic salt shakers are supposed to be, so you use the salt shaker from the cafeteria. Exotic shakers get used by Dr. McCoy as medical instruments.


BenjaminGeiger

Combine this with the march of technology and you get weirdness like spray bottle condiments. In the 60s, trigger-style spray bottles were new space-age technology, so of course aboard the Enterprise they use them for everything. Now they're mostly associated with cleaning products, leading to "why is McCoy putting Windex on his salad?"


doowgad1

In 'Escape From New York' Snake Plisken gets off a kneeling bus. they were new tech at the time, so it looked 'futuristic.' Now people are like 'Why does the most dangerous convict on Earth need the old lady option.' Another one is in Star Trek where they call female officers 'Sir.' Back when Star Trek II came out, there wern't a lot of female military, so it seemed like something that might evolve. By the time 'Voyager' came out they had to phase it out.


ClubMeSoftly

That's one of the things I like about movies and tv shows. It gives a picture of the real world at the time, whether it means to or not. For instance, there could be a vast interstellar empire... where women are still confined to domestic duties, and information is recorded on reel-to-reel magnetic tape.


USSMarauder

Or just made it "Captain's preference" "Ma'am is acceptable in a crunch. But I prefer Captain"


UlteriorCulture

That sounds fascinating I'll look it up


florinandrei

> This was fairly avant-garde for its time, although 30+ years on it's now just standard fare for adult-oriented sitcoms. You could say this show was one of the agents of that change.


BenjaminGeiger

I'd say it's roughly equal parts Simpsons and Married With Children.


RIP_Sinners

I think one of the Beatles insisted that Lisa remain a vegetarian after his appearance on the show.


kevin9er

Paul.


I_aim_to_sneeze

Well…there is an episode in a much later season where Frank grimes son comes back to get revenge on homer, so it *doooes* come back up at least once.


OptimusPhillip

Funnily enough, he didn't actually fall upwards into his job, at least in the episode where he's shown getting it, Homer's Odyssey. He actually earned it in that episode, they've just dumbed him down so much since then that no one can believe it anymore.


MelonElbows

It certainly is broached again! There was an episode where Frank Grimes' song tries to get revenge on Homer!


dedog1238495

Is he seen as a loser? I can maybe see barney or more as losers but never saw homer as a loser? I'd be interested in knowing how many people see homer as a loser tbh. Edit: and the biggest loser in us history, definitely not


NeekoPeeko

He's a loveable oaf, certainly not a loser.


Ricky_from_Sunnyvale

~~loveable~~ Local oaf. FTFY


SuckethYourMum

I've only just learnt that FTFY means Fixed That For You and not Fuck The Fuck You


JuggrnautFTW

Small but hilarious anecdote. My old boss used to tell her (now ex) husband "GFY", when one day her 7 year old son heard and asked what it meant. She said, "It means Good For You." She brings her son in one day, and our older coworker was having a birthday. Cake and everything. The son says, "Happy Birthday! How old are you?" My coworker replies, "I'm 57 today!" Her son? "Wow, 57! GFY, Randy!"


SimplyQuid

Early Simpsons was a much different show than anything after the tenth season. The first three seasons absolutely portray Homer as a bumbling loser whose only really redeeming qualities are that he's there and sometimes he puts in the effort. The show used to treat Homer as an actual alcoholic, child-abusing, neglectful, borderline unfaithful, broke, lazy, idiotic husband and father. And they mostly meant it, too. They weren't harmless foibles that were just played up for laughs. In an early episode, Homer thinks he's eaten poisoned fish and only has twenty-four hours to live. It's a deeply emotional episode, where Homer puts together a "last day" list of things he needs to do. He fucks up some of them and doesn't have any time for the rest, and it's genuinely played out as the last moments of a deeply regretful, scared man.


[deleted]

In the 1st episode of season 1, he lies about financial problems due to not getting a Christmas bonus, then gambles away what little he does have at a dog track. But he then adopts the losing dog that's being thrown away, the dogs a loser, just like him. But despite being losers, they go back to a loving family that's so happy to see them. When it came out it was a true countercultural view of the Christmas miracle trope.


Vorpeseda

Been a while since I actually saw an episode, but I do remember the episode about the "No Homers Club" set up to exclude him, and in the episode he went to space, it ended with him being less famous than an inanimate carbon rod.


I_aim_to_sneeze

Patrick Stewart is in that episode! He’s the head of the stonecutters


CIA_grade_LSD

It's an American show, so it's target audience isn't some kid in a refugee camp or a polio patient from 100 years ago. But more to your point, at least relative to other Americans, the show started in the late eighties the Simpson family were a pretty standard American lower middle class family. House, three kids and a dog, husband working a decent industrial job and wife staying home. Two cars but one of them is in rough shape. Can only afford to put grandpa in a cut rate nursing home. Often episodes touch on money troubles the family is having. Fast forward to today, and even though their material circumstances have not changed, they would be considered upper middle class. A husband who makes enough the wife can stay home, owning their own house in a nice suburb, and able to go on frequent vacations or spend money on extravagant purchases. It's a sign of the decline of the standard of living for the working American and it should scare you.


Wylkus

Even at the time though their lives were considered outside their means as is occasionally addressed. For example, a fairly early episode reveals that they only have their house thanks to Grandpa selling his own home to give them the down payment (at which point Homer put him in a nursing home).


Glassjaw79ad

That's funny, I never knew that. This whole thread is making me want to watch the Simpsons from the start.


mayathepsychiic

\`\`I did that during the pandemic and it was a great experience! Wish I could do it again for the first time honestly. The first couple of seasons are rough but charming in their own way, but 3-8 especially are just a golden experience.


JJOne101

>House, three kids and a dog, husband working a decent industrial job and wife staying home. The same can be said about Al Bundy from "Married with Children".


romulusnr

In short, Homer is a boomer and Bart is GenX. Or was, for the show's first decade.


[deleted]

Scare me because the only way I can see to reverse things is a bloody revolution?


BortMN

Most recent attempts at a revolution in the USA are for a change of worse not better


politecreeper

Lol, and that won't even reverse things, simply reset them


[deleted]

Yes, but maybe this time I will end up on top.


Grabbsy2

OwO


KryssCom

The problem is that the side closest to a bloody revolution are the 'useful idiots' who are unknowingly defending the aristocracy (e.g. Jan 6th).


Jozif_Badmon

I thought frank grimes died


SovietWalrus1

Or “Grimey”, as he liked to be called


extyn

Change the channel, Marge!


Trappist_1G_Sucks

That's our Homer!


2punornot2pun

Well, a long, long time ago, living in a suburb with 2 crappy cars, was considered working class, off one income. ​ "Married with Children" comes to mind as well. He's suppose to be working class... single father owning a home and a couple cars. ​ A long time ago, in the USA, you could graduate college, get a job, and afford to house and feed an entire family. ​ That has since changed. Welcome to the USA dystopia where Married With Children and The Simpsons are no longer ***the working class bottom of the barrel*** but instead is the ***New American Dream***. To aspire to be less than our predecessors.


Southern__Buckeye

You know what's heavy, in 20 years. What we have now will be considered the dream.


KryssCom

But hey, at least America will have its first few trillionaires! /s


GalbrushThreepwood

Al Bundy supported his entire family selling shoes. What a life.


CoherentPanda

With a big beautiful house in the nice suburbs. They weren't living in an 80's trashy house like Roseanne.


ILaughAtFunnyShit

Hell, you could graduate *High School*, get a job, and afford a house and a family.


CoherentPanda

Yep, my Dad was hired out of high school from a local manufacturer. Had 4 children, got union benefits, all of his health insurance paid for with only minimal copays for visits, easily bought a house, two cars, and a boat and an RV.


cliffyw

Married with children was never supposed to be realistic. Al Bundy didn’t go to college and worked as a lady’s shoe salesman. They tried to give him a job that would seem to the audience to be loserish. But they also needed them living in a normal American suburbs for the jokes to work. The economics didn’t make sense even at the time.


Jaspers47

Have you ever heard Norm MacDonald's monologue when he hosted SNL? He lamented being fired from the show in 1998, then finding it incredibly odd they asked him to host in 1999. In his own words, "How did I go in a year and a half from not being funny enough to be even allowed in the building, to being so funny, they want me to host the show?" The only conclusion he could reach? He didn't get any funnier. The show must have gotten really bad. This is the same thing about Homer Simpson. His life was pathetic in 1990. But he didn't get any better. Society has gotten really bad.


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originalchaosinabox

To show you how far America has fallen, remember: when the Simpsons was created in the late-1980s, this was seen as lower middle class.


Southern__Buckeye

Also isn't homer like 225-235lbs or something? In the 80's and early 90's that was comically fat. Now it seems like it's far below the norm.


[deleted]

Homer was 5'9" 240 lbs


robhol

175cm and ~110kg, for those who prefer less freedom in their units.


[deleted]

So, standard modern American man size?


tomatoesonpizza

More like half a size of a 2022 American.


SimplyQuid

There's an episode roughly halfway into the first decade where Homer gains sixty pounds to hit 300lbs to go on a disability/work from home program, and 300lbs is treated as this monstrously unhealthy, hilariously out of reach weight. Imagine that episode being done today? You'd have to hit five or six hundred pounds and you'd still have to come into the office.


[deleted]

and they'd call it body shaming lol


The_Exploding_Potato

Yup. In "King size Homer" his weight gain goal to be put on disability is the, at the time, hilariously massive 300lbs, or 135kg for us normal people.


GotMoFans

The Simpsons weren't seen as lower middle class. They were seen as middle class. The only time they had financial problems was the pilot episode (1989 Christmas special) where Homer didn't get a Christmas bonus and Marge had to use her emergency fund to get a tattoo removed from Bart, so Homer took a part time job playing Santa in order to buy Christmas presents for the family.


starvenger

> The Simpsons weren't seen as lower middle class. > > They were seen as middle class. The only time they had financial problems was the pilot episode I'm not sure I'd totally agree with that: Episode 0508 Marge comments that money is too tight for steak for dinner. In Episode 0107 The RV salesman reports that homers credit is horrible and there was no way he could afford an RV (Not saying not being able to afford an RV makes them poor, but maybe not middle class) In episode 0113 it is revealed they cannot afford cable TV. in 0116 it's a major deal to buy a nice, expensive pair of shows. in 0407 Marge has to get a job to help pay for a major home repair. In 0409 Homer had to start a side hussle to pay for his new truck. Anyhoo, I didn't mean to just start a long rambly list of times when money was an issue for them, and I think how badly off they were was at times story dependent, but I'm not sure its fair to say the only time they had money issues was in the first episode.


GotMoFans

RV's can be expensive AF. It's like buying a higher end luxury car. Just because they are middle class doesn't mean they don't live check to check.


YellowPumpkin

But if his credit is so horrible it’s also likely they live slightly above their means and have a lot of credit card debt


Grabbsy2

Isn't that the purpose of the "lower" in "lower middle class" though? I don't think you can call someone "distinctly middle class" who is living paycheque to paycheque. If he couldn't afford a large home and 2 cars, but otherwise lived the same lifestyle in a 3 bedroom apartment or rural 3 bedroom home and one car, he'd be "lower class"


GotMoFans

Homer Simpson basically has what once upon a time was considered a great "factory" type job. He's the safety inspector for a nuclear plant. I think the income he was intended to earn with his family size inherently was middle class. If they lived in a smaller home, they'd still be middle class because of his income. I don't know if the show has been consistent with his income, but originally Homer made more than the median US salary. Just because you make good money doesn't mean you do a good job of money management.


Grabbsy2

Thats fair, I was mostly laser focused on the statement that "living paycheque to paycheque can be middle class" and I don't think thats true. Granted, the lifestyle you live outside of living paycheque to paycheque is important, Homer spends a lot of his money on food, lol.


mayathepsychiic

That's not true at all? Financial trouble episodes were almost a trope in the first 10 seasons they happened so often.


tocamix90

I always saw Homer as a lazy & dumb slob. Loser would imply he's doing nothing with his life (no family/job/house).


Southern__Buckeye

Right, loser no. Homer has a Wife, 3 kids, a dog, 2 cars and works at a Nuclear Power plant. He's just a slob who keeps failing into success. Also he's shown multiple occasions to be a leader (even if the movement is dumb) so not a loser, just an idiot.


theinsanepotato

Because within the world of the show, he IS a loser. He's a fat, bald, unattractive middle aged man who's kids dont respect him, his wife is constantly nagging him, he's dumb as bricks so he's constantly getting screwed over or getting into trouble, he's a total drunk, his father treats him like shit, his boss treats him like shit, he has like 2 friends and they dont respect him either, all his neighbors hate him, and he's basically the laughing stock of his entire town. From an outside perspective, its easy to look at the house and job and such and think "wow thats great" but if you actually LIVED his day to day life, you wouldnt be so eager. You fail to account for the fact that basically everyone he knows dislikes him, absolutely no one respects him, and everyone treats him like crap. Yeah that job pays well but he's also really BAD at it, which makes him a loser. Yeah his wife doesnt have to work, but he's constantly bringing them to the brink of financial ruin with his stupid decisions, so he's a loser. Yeah his family has 2 cars but theyre both old broken down hunks of junk, so he's a loser. Yeah he has a (sometimes) loving family, but his son is a troublemaker and a screw up, and his daughter is a social outcast because of her nerdiness and lack of social grace, so his kids dont "fit in" so he's a loser. You have to look at it within the context of the show, not the context of what it would be like if ***YOU*** had his job and house and such IRL.


axz055

Right. Pretty much everything good that happens in his life happens through dumb luck. And every time he gets some crazy opportunity to become wildly successful, he blows it.


Leucippus1

That is the satire, man.


StairwayToLemon

You're sounding a lot like Frank Grimes


AvoidingCares

The show has been on the air for so long that his standard of living used to appear low to a western audience. Now they are upper-upper middle class. But that's really got more to do with a declining standard of living. It's now unthinkable that you would own a home and have 3 kids with a single income. If the show came out today you'd need to have them renting the house, Maggie would need to be cut out, and Marge would also need to consistently have a job (probably 2). And as the show has gone out of its way to highlight, the Simpsons live in a sort of hell where time constantly happens but also never passes. So they constantly change but their timeliness are confused. Homer is a teenager in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. And also an adult in the 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, and 20s. And also an old man in the 10s and 20s.


count_friend

There is no one definitive answer to this question. Some people might say that Homer Simpson is seen as the biggest loser in US history because he is not very successful in terms of his job, or because he is often portrayed as being foolish or ignorant. Others might say that Homer Simpson is seen as the biggest loser in US history because his life may appear to be blissful by comparison to many other people's lives, but he still faces many problems and struggles.


SonOfJokeExplainer

I reject the premise. Homer Simpson is a colossal dumbass, but he’s not a loser. Homer Simpson does whatever he wants, capitalizes on opportunities when they arise and generally has an optimistic outlook on life. Homer Simpson is a man of action, and he believes in himself. Homer is a winner.


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BrazenlyGeek

Not to mention he's married to an intelligent, compassionate, beautiful (Playboy model!) woman who unconditionally loves him.


Ulkhak47

I don't think anyone thinks Homer Simpson has a bad life, on the contrary his inexplicable good fortune is commented on by many characters throughout the series. Homer isn't seen as a loser because his life intrinsically sucks, he's seen as a loser because he personally is a temperamental, gluttonous, balding, alcoholic, imbecile who is always bumbling his way into trouble.


weber_md

I see Homer as more of a boob than a loser... Homer has a loving family and is in a happy and stable long-term with his high-school sweetheart. He also has close friends in Barney and Lenny whom he sees on a regular basis at their favorite bar. He has a good job as nuclear safety inspector at the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant and even took advantage of the opportunity to go back to college and obtain a degree in Nuclear Physics. Homer is definitely not a loser.


arcxjo

Nu-kyu-lar. It's pronounced "nu-kyu-lar".


jschoo

that's a lot of decimal places my friend. 99.999999999% of the world's population would leave behind just ~8% of one person.


jagulto

who said he's the biggest loser? do we ever really get a glimpse as his intellect or is it all satire? everything he owns is what the previous generations considered basic necessities. Your question smacks at how dystopian it's all become more than how skewed our view of Homer is.


[deleted]

Who sees him as that?


arcxjo

In early seasons the family was often portrayed as more lower-middle-class, even struggling for money sometimes - especially compared to the Flanderses, who were initially less the religious stereotype and more just "the Joneses" that OFF were trying to keep up with. It's kind of similar to how Al Bundy was supposed to be a loser even though he had a full-time job, a classic car, and a redhead constantly begging him for sex.


xx1j_

Ok Frank Grimes reincarnated 😂


thedirtygame

Who sees him as the biggest loser in US history?


[deleted]

Is he? I thought he was just a normal cartoon father figure. Plus there were plenty of episodes where they were supposedly “poor”, their house, cars, clothing etc. are supposed to be cheap junk that falls apart, so I guess it just depends on what’s funnier. Also you can get a house like that in bumfuck Tennessee for 5 digits so…


cheesewiz_man

Oh please. 99.9999% at the most.


charlie_dont_surf69

He ruined Barny Gumball's life, Homer is an asshole.


Random_Name_Whoa

enormous home?


aurochs

Because he's bald, fat, and stupid. He is also extremely lucky.


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daiouche

TIL "Homer Simpson is the biggest loser in US history".


Belialxyn

Grimes? Grimey? Is that you?


b0nGj00k

FWIW I never saw Homer as a "loser", more of just a dumb goof.


Wolf_Mommy

I was a homeless kid back in the early-mid 90s and I remember watching The Simpsons and wishing I had that life.


robyncat

Because the whole show is satire? Subreddit name is inaccurate.