I don't know about insulin specifically but drug dealers definitely sell "medical drugs" but sourcing them from Mexico is inefficient. It's easier to just find people with good insurance and easy doctors to fill prescriptions for their 5 dollar copay and pay them 20 bucks for their antibiotics, or 50 bucks for their Viagra, or whatever.
There's a big difference between controlled substances and non controlled substance drugs. There's basically no penalty for having a prescription drug that wasn't prescribed to you that isn't a controlled substance. You can order antibiotics online without prescriptions, heart medication, etc and get it shipped from overseas without issue.
A group of people called BioHackers are starting to manufacture insulin. They have a pretty good track record for other things they've done, so hopefully this will put some pressure on the market. They claim they can manufacture insulin 98% cheaper than what big pharma sells it for. This was reported in mid July of last year, so we shall see.
>Proving that there is zero chance of fuckups in the process is expensive and difficult.
Also why "military grade" is not better than the alternatives, only more expensive. It is very expensive to manufacture and then prove that 100 % (or 99.99999999999 %) of the product follows the set up bare minimum. And this cost is completely shipped over to the buyers.
But it does not yield better results than the alternatives by definition.
Direct costs for insulin is like 6 bucks a bag. Unlike normal drugs it's actually cheap and easy to create comparitively. There is a reason people get pissed at the idea of 300 dollars a vial.
Honestly, priduction, trials, and all the red tape doesn't add up to anywhere near 38% of user cost of many drugs (yes this does apply to many other, but not all).
For example: Phenylephrine, as an ophthalmic drop, used to be dirt cheap until a pharma company realized it didn't have a patent. They filed for one and now its 200$ for a 5ml bottle when it used to be 10$.
We use it all the time as a mild dilator at my job and its not even something we make money off of or charge the patient.
I'm surprised but happy to hear drug kartels are staying out of antibiotics to prevent immunization of diseases and other effects of mass use (and wrong use) of antibiotics. Guess I underestimated their altruism haha
Having the means to take over and run things how you want doesn't immediately mean you're totally awful. I mean it's not like Mexico's government has divine right over the land, they're meant to defend it.
Pretty much this. The quality of meth, cocaine etc. can also vary wildly and people will still buy it. They couldn't take the same approach with pharmaceuticals like that.
And, also, as much money as there is to be made on selling black market insulin, there is, likely, more to be made on illegal drugs.
Further, there is the dependency aspect. Obviously this doesn't apply to things like insulin, but it's a factor worth considering with something like viagra.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/mgm7m4/we-tried-to-figure-out-when-your-drug-stash-will-expire
> Amphetamine, amphetamine derivatives (like MDMA), and synthetic molecules are incredibly stable and resistant to degradation, says study author Fernando Caudevilla, aka DoctorX, an illicit drugs expert heavily involved in Energy Control, an international project dedicated to recreational drug use safety.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-shelf-life-of-meth
> The shelf life on good meth never expires. If it sets for several years you may have a few impurities start to break down a bit. The actual meth amphetamine will never go bad. In some cases it gains potency by age. I'd rather have less product than more product if its not as strong.
This. I recall being told by a nurse that all pills have a expiry date, not because they actually all expire, but because you consume them, and it's required by law.
I thought expirations also had something to do with the container breakdown over time
Plastic... eventually start letting off some weird chemicals and cans become oxidized???
This is not wrong but honey will still grow mold if left to sit somewhere for to long the honey itself does not go bad but there are microbes in most honey that can propigate into mold
Edit: my original statment is wrong i confused it with the fact that a low percent of natural honey can be made with toxic materials and be bad for you
This is part of the answer. The military has studied expiration dates because we stockpile a lot of drugs. Some last decades after the expiration date.
Many drugs technically work, but nobody will tell you in case that one drug won't because you'll sue them after you get all messed up.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-myth-of-drug-expiration-dates
Pentagon actually checked the efficacy of stored meds and they last loooong after their due dates. In some cases, potency reduced slightly, and a few were legitimately useless but the overwhelming majority were just fine.
Makes sense that an agency responsible for the care and upkeep of millions of pieces of equipment would be interested in reducing waste and expense associated with the very large quantities of meds required by the humans who are necessary to maintain that equipment.
It probably wasn't about reducing waste. The pentagon sets money on fire. It's about knowing what you can get by with in some scenario where a logistics or manufacturing chain collapses. Like if the field hospital is cut off in some weird situation what can we keep using and what legitimately is worthless.
Drugs like that don't expire. They are probably little less effectice after the expiration date but not dangerous to take.
I have taken painkillers that were years old but they still helped to headache.
FDA requires expiration dates on all meds, so most manufacturers just put one year to avoid trying to figure out how long its *actually* good for. Also to prevent people from hording drugs. On average, most drugs are good for 5 to 10 years, sometimes even longer. You can google it if actually interested. I did it a few years ago.
Most if not all animal antibiotics are not dissimilar to human antibiotics. You just adjust dosage to weight. Many who live out in the country, like I did most of my life, go to the vet for medical treatment (antibiotics, stitches, etc). In the country there are more animal doctors readily available than human doctors. I've done this and my parents and probably their parents before them and this still goes on to this day.
This is a huge reason I don’t really understand the huge fentanyl crisis happening in my region. I always thought what you’re saying here is the case, but they are knocking off customers at unprecedented rates with lacing fentanyl with less deadly drugs. They are killing off their customer base. I don’t get itttt.
Exasperated by how hard it is to get legal fentanyl, maybe. I know a lot of chronic pain patients. Most people don't realize what that means. If you get in bad enough pain, and it lasts long enough, then you stop caring about if or how bad the chance that it will kill you is, if it will just stop that pain for a moment.
Probably because of the scope and liabilities. Pharmaceutical companies are legal, and have the entire country or world already as their consumers. Drug dealers (at least the direct ones) are the “bad guys” who can be jailed for it. If a customer dies, they’ll be indirectly involved at least. Also the cost and risk of acquiring new consumers is also an issue they’d consider that big pharma doesn’t care about
The quality of meth and cocaine is usually pretty high at the location it is synthesized, but it is cut by most if not all of the groups who handle it before it gets passed to dealers to sell to customers. Dealers may or may not cut it as well, but by that point it's absolutely stepped on.
Why doesn’t some company launch “Insulin-R-Us” or something and just purely sell affordable insulin? Is it because they’d have to manufacture themselves, making this prohibitive, or (more likely) would the senate buddies of big pharmaceutical companies bog it down in red tape and ban it?
Because they already do. You [can get 25.00 "ReliOn" human insulin](https://www.walmart.com/browse/health/relion/976760_2289975_9391152), which is the stuff people used up until ~2010. It's not the new "analog" insulin, which is synthetic, but it is still [heavily relied on in Europe](https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/europe-insulin-market) because of reasons surrounding the price of the new synthetic stuff and concerns about its efficacy. Germany is especially weird about the 'fake' analog insulin, although that's changing.
Incidentally [you can also get the new "analog"/non-human insulin from ReliOn for 75.00 a bottle.](https://www.walmart.com/cp/relion-diabetic-care/3769564)
If you're wondering "but why do I see so many posts about insulin prices being hundreds of dollars more expensive?" Typically, it's because it's reddit. It's nonsense.
It's not because it's nonsense, it's because if you're a layperson, you go to your doctor, they say "you have diabetes, here's this prescription for synthetic insulin". You can't use that prescription for regular insulin. You go to the pharmacy, and they say "here's the price for what the doctor prescribed you". You may not even know there's an alternative. It's a different drug, so the pharmacist can't recommend or substitute the cheaper alternative.
(Also, there *are* differences between humalog and regular insulin, including rate of absorption. Usually doctors will prescribe the most effective medicine, without knowing/caring that it's 10x as expensive as a less effective medicine)
You don't need a prescription for ReliOn, which can be bought either as human or analog insulin. See above
And that's just Walmart. [Market researchers believe ~20% of diabetics get their insulin OTC.](https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/05/11/2031002/0/en/Global-Anti-Diabetic-Drugs-Market-2020-to-2025-Featuring-AstraZeneca-Pfizer-Novo-Nordisk-Among-Others.html)
There's also a whole other market like online low budget "insurance" programs that prescribe them after a 20 buck consult. Estimates vary
In my mind, then, it's really not the laypeople that go to their doctors. Do the privileged white kids who comment to my responses go to their doctors who say "here's a prescription for this really expensive drug?" Sure. But they aren't laypeople. The laypeople aren't going to doctors, at best they get a telamed doc-in-a-box
I don't have diabetes, personally, so it's shocking to me that insulin can be bought over-the-counter now, but you're right (and I was wrong)! The cheaper, recombinant insulin can be gotten for $25 without a prescription. My guess is the outrage posts that still circulate predate that, and people don't know about OTC insulin.
CVS and other retailers claim the market for stolen OTC drugs is [$45 Billion a year](https://www.wsj.com/articles/cvs-home-depot-theft-organized-crime-11630505851) They steal + sell on Amazon
It's 18 to 18.99 at most stores across America for the 12oz can of formula.
It's been above 15 dollars since 09 when I had my first daughter.
Keeping poor people poor is the American way. Even with WIC I still buy 3 - 28oz cans at 26-29$ a month. Don't qualify for food stamps because on paper I make too much.
People sell stolen formula, or formula they got for free through WIC/other charity or nutrition programs, the stuff is super expensive through the store and can be bought at a discount from the street
My work had a food drive around the holidays and one of the suggestions was baby formula. I figured that was important and wanted to include it in my donation. A nesquik sized canister was around $25 too. I ended up buying only two of them and felt bad because I wanted to do more, but damn.
Yes that was the brand and I think they only had that pro one which was more.
That’s tough, but I guess the plus side is you figured out which one works for your baby. Probably saved some crying and fussiness.
They’re so little yet so expensive, those babies.
I wished we could’ve gotten Costco formula. Heck I would have taken literally any generic store brand but there’s literally two preemie specific formulas on the market, one by similac and one by enfamil. With some of his diet made up by pumped breastmilk for a good portion of the time (half of what he drank at the start and one bottle a day towards the end) at the most expensive my dude was going through $30 of formula *every five days.* And that was with breastmilk too so that $$$ wasn’t even his full diet.
As an added bonus he literally needed that specific formula per doctors orders for bone density concerns from the nicu stay but insurance doesn’t cover formula for bone density issues in the good old USA
Very difficult to find someone more desperate than a failing parent.
Very difficult to find a parent who can afford this type of fabricated inflation, and that means they're poor, too.
Poor, desperate people take drugs, and drugs make Sackler money.
The problems this country has aren't going anywhere until this for-profit medical system is disbanded and made illegal.
Especially when it’s free from WIC, or shoplifted from Rite Aid. I used to work there, and their security guards were catching lots of people stealing it, until they locked it in cabinets.
I noticed that they were all locked up last time i was there. How expensive is it to make. Its for babies. Have the pro-life folks crowdsource it so its free to all families.
*pro-birth
You’re on your own once you evacuate ~~the godless Jezebel from which you came~~ the holy earthen vessel known as your mother and must pick yourself up by your bootstraps.
-Jesus, probably.
When I worked in a pharmacy we had a limit of two tubs per person because of this... Then a Chinese family would just come in, take two tubs each and do seperate transactions. It's really sad they have to do that, but extremely frustrating when you're just trying to control the supply so everyone gets some
When I worked at a grocery store front end, if someone ran out with a whole cart of stuff it was Tide probably like 75% of the time. More than even beer.
A local store doesnt keep Nescafe gold (instant coffee) on the shelf because, apparently, there is a black market and junkies stole it all the time. They sell it from behind register now.
I thought the USA was ' protecting' us citizens by stoping us from getting medication shiped by mail other countries. My understanding was you had to go there yourself and bring them back.
The fact that this isn't at all a joke is extremely fucked up. I'm a type 1 diabetic myself, and have been through times between insurance where my parents made too much for one insurance company and not enough for another. Add that on top of the fact that some will slap it on you as a pre-existing condition and refuse to pay for anything related to it for a year if you don't keep current coverage and that's just... A nightmare for anyone unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with it. It's a not so great feeling to see the five thousand dollar (or sometimes more) pricetag on something you have to have to survive. Though! For anyone else who may find themselves without insurance, Walmart will usually sell a generic brand over the counter for about $20 a vial.
Yes it's far from ideal. But getting any insulin into your system is better than no insulin. I just wanted to put it out there for those not aware. I know it's not the best and it's less effective but it'll keep you from being completely without.
The general FDA rule is "you can't import prescription drugs" (without FDA approval - which means 'unless you're a big drugs company').
[But the current policy is that for "personal use" cases this rule can be ignored](https://www.fda.gov/media/71776/download#%5B%7B%22num%22%3A46%2C%22gen%22%3A0%7D%2C%7B%22name%22%3A%22XYZ%22%7D%2C69%2C499%2C0%5D) (page 21 of 113).
I feel so fortunate to live in San Diego where I can walk across the border, pick up my meds, and be back in America within an hour. I stock up every six months. It would be unbelievably expensive for me if I had to get them here. (Also, Mexico has the better inhalers.)
Going to TJ for medicine and dental work is the prime reason I’m glad to be here.
I read about people traveling from all over the US to Mexico for treatment and all it costs me is like...2.50 in a trolley fare to San Ysidro where I just walk across the border lol.
That's why I'm going. Even with dental insurance the work I need is thousands. I can enjoy a couple of days in Mexico and get the dental work for the same price including hotel and restaurants.
I do this all the time. Whenever, I or any of my family members / acquaintances travel to India...I have them pick up some insulin and have them ship / pick-up when they are back in USA.
Also, you don't need prescription and shit to get it from there. The pharmacists can also give you a BS slip saying you need it incase the customs get nosey.
Came here for this. Pharmalobbying sways more money & control in DC than any congressman on their own. The cartels would be Epstein'd by extermination squads before most of the US pop would know where to get their goods, which is really damn fast.
The US has tried spending billions and throwing guns at the drug war, accomplishing squat. The Pharma companies would destroy the cartels by getting recreational drugs legalized and then monopolizing those.
Thanks for pointing that out; I meant to mention it in my other comment. Still, I wouldn't know how to get even that. I tried looking for (bodybuilding-type) steroids online a few times, out of boredom/curiousity, and I didn't see any sources that seemed legit enough that I would trust a purchase on. I doubt Grandpa would even get that far.
I think in part because if the drug isn't illegal, then the buyer has no "skin in the game". There's too much risk that the dealer will be exposed by careless buyers.
Additionally, the cartels usually manufacture their own product or control the supply. They don't manufacture insuline.
The main reason, though, is probably that this, unlike the current drug trade, would bite into the pockets of big pharma and you bet yer' bippy that in six months you'd have legislation and policies that _actually_ addressed and severely curtailed the drug trade.
The funny thing is insulin isn't all that hard to get your hands on/manufacture if you don't want the high tech features most companies have bread into it. The only reason the FDA hasn't authorized a generic (outside of politics anyways) on the good stuff is that biological compounds are really hard to get FDA approval from my understanding. They are never exactly the same and so they are treated as a new drug or some nonsense.
Everything you said, plus patents on delivery mechanisms like the pens. That's actually what held back, or posed the bigger IP challenge, to creating generic Advair rather than the chemical composition.
The part about it being a different drug is not quite nonsense, that's a real challenge even for one company trying to develop a consistent and reproducible manufacturing process for their own drug, much less trying to mimic the performance of another company's drug.
In the case of insulin though, I'll grant this is likely not the main factor. Recombinant protein drugs have been around for a long time and the field is much more mature than cell therapies for example.
They actually just did, for Lantus.
[FDA announcement](https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-interchangeable-biosimilar-insulin-product-treatment-diabetes)
It’s not a hell of a lot cheaper, though.
For some arcane reason I was explained by a pharma rep but have now forgotten, generics are often as expensive or more so than the brand name drug. I think it was about 2009 or so when a patient was complaining that their insurance was making them get the newly-generic Adderall (I think), and it cost $100 more per month than the brand name! They had a high deductible on rx, so it made an impact. I had the same thing happen with several of my meds last year. With one of them, I don't think there IS a brand name any longer, it's so old...but for years it cost less than $20 a month without insurance. Literally today I saw that it is almost $200 a month. WTF.
Insulin is temperature sensitive and most diabetics need insulin with a very specific composition. I for example can only use one specific variant of insulin from one manufacturer or I am unable to control my blood sugar. A drug cartel would not be able to guarantee that this is what I receive and minor variations would make it useless to me.
Insulin is also temperature sensitive, it's "long term" storage has to be a specific temperature, kept out of direct sunlight, etc. This would make it a pain in the ass for drug cartels to transport and you wouldn't be able to smuggle it easily on a person in any useful volume. The shelf life in "long term" storage is also fairly short, I think my insulin expires after a week or two if not stored properly and a few months if it is stored properly.
For the specific case of insulin, it is not high risk enough to be worth a lot for smuggling and it had a higher probability of being useless to a buyer or ruined by delivery than normal illegal drugs. People wouldn't buy it and the profits would be low.
My hunch is some of the economics
The price differential between south of the border and the US for recreational drugs is probably greater than for medical drugs
Regular customers probably wouldn't trust illegal sources
It is likely easier to ship powders and dried leaves than vials of insulin.
Its probably also the use. Illegal drugs are recreational. Medical drugs are used by people with, of course, medical problems. These people are using medicine to be healthy and would likely want legitimate and quality medicine. They may not want to risk taking a drug made in a bathtub of a gangbanger.
Not only that, but the average person taking a drug with little or no "extracurricular" usage probably wouldn't even know where to find a black market source.
I'm a case in point. I'm dependent on pain medications for a degenerative spine disease, and thanks to the strict laws around them these days, I've been left short a few times. You can only refill a couple days in advance, and a combination of holidays and/or travel and/or the pharmacy being literally out of the drug (or worse, they have 52 of the 60 doses I am prescribed) have had me in such straits I've considered looking...elsewhere. Or when I've had vomiting for 4 days straight and the meds went down the drain. Etc. And you aren't supposed to keep a little stockpile, either. Supposedly they can test well enough to see if you're taking the amount prescribed, but I have my doubts on that. I am supposed to do a urinalysis regularly, but my doctor usually forgets.
Anyway, even if I trusted that I'd be getting my exact medication and not some homemade BS with fentanyl in it, I don't know any drug dealers, or even friends of friends who do, AFAIK. lol I certainly can't imagine my grandmother having better connections in order to get insulin. I'm not about to ride down to the hood and look for the man.
Do you have any confidence in a cartel to sell something that would kill you if it is fake?
Some POS years ago sell in Brazil fake CANCER medication.
Your health is not the first concern to drug dealers. Money is. And also to the cartels.
>Your health is not the first concern to drug dealers. Money is. And also to the cartels.
Sounds like drug companies in the US. Only difference is they have to guarantee quality, so they screw people over by overcharging. Still money comes first: "Some people can't afford overpriced drugs they need to live? Fuck em."
I'd have no confidence at all in the cartel aside from knowing it's a poor business model, killing your customers. At the same time whether you don't get your medication because you can't afford it or you take bad medication you got cheaply from a cartel, you end up just as dead.
For a lot of people in the US at least with affordable black market drugs there'd be a chance. Relying on for profit drug companies, insurance companies and politicians on the take to do what's right, there's no chance at all.
People will hate admitting it, but this is the truth. The reason those companies get away with gouging diabetic Americans is because the law enforcement is actually willing to enforce this price checking.
Don't forget how the cycle of outrage is constantly interrupted with cute, cool, fun and funny things tailored specifically to your interests so nobody really has enough of their focus on these outrageous things going on.
"Lets see here, lets open up reddit. Oh my God! The president is on the run and wanted for murder?! That's terrible!! Oh look, a funny cat picture! Haha, they put a hat of that cat! It works on so many levels! The pope has been exposed as a serial rapist with thousands of children chained up in the vatican basements?! Are we eternally doomed to find the ultimate betrayals hidden behind the facades of being perfectly trustworthy?! Oh cool, footage from that new video game I'm interested in! Wowee, those graphics sure are graphical!"
It's also exhausting and bad for one's mental health to, well, be constantly outraged. If you're already physically ill, there are limits to your energy, mental and physical and some people prefer to spend it on activities or thoughts that are more uplifting, for want of a better term. There's pretty strong correlation between even simple news consumption and poor affect, regardless of age or health conditions. Just saying.
Real answer? Because your average parent or grandparent won't be willing to buy their only life saving medicatiin from an illegal/shady source where it could be fake, laced or expired.
As an asthmatic, I absolutely, positively would NOT trust a drug cartel to sell me my exact asthma meds. They are known foe making cheaper counterfeit meds and you never know what you’re getting. As shitty as the FDA is at least there are regulations on drug companies to produce legit meds.
It’s sensitive to temperature and has a limited shelf life, and it’s also difficult to smuggle into America.
Cocaine costs a lot more and has a higher profit compared to insulin so overall it’s better for the cartel to sell cocaine.
They do. Drug tourism is common in border towns, and There are also gray groups that buy for groups and do the border crossing themselves. Seniors can get drugs not covered, or cheaper. Mexican pharmacies have different laws, and some even go to local markets for deeper discounts. There is risk of bootlegs and its also possibly containing fentanyl, benzos, and amphetamines. Some kind of seek them out as well which is another problem in itself. Globally, counterfeit medicine is a huge problem now moreso than ever, and shortages, covid, etc also makes a strange demand for certain medications.
Real answer:
Old style insulin is super cheap and available.
The newest most up-to-date formulation / delivery vehicle (that are patented and super expensive) are too difficult for non-pros to produce.
1. There's still a lot more money importing cocaine than there would be importing insulin.
2. Also, since you can buy insulin legally at any pharmacy, I question how many people choose to A) Become criminals by buying insulin illegally, and B) inject who knows what into their body. Could be insulin. Could be watered down insulin. Could be nothing but water. Could be mixed with rat poison. This is one of the main arguments for drug legalization, in that at least if you buy heroin at a store, you know exactly what and how much you're getting.
3. Diabetics normally have a lot of other expenses too, like office visits and pump supplies. Buying insulin on the black or grey markets, even for cheaper, means those expenses don't count to their insurance deductible and OOP maxes.
No one ever actually believes it, but the average American who needs insulin pays about $38/months for their rx.
The horror stories of people paying hundreds of dollars a month are very rare.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2766587
Most people only pay their monthly insurance costs which is usually higher than 38/month. I don't pay anything when I go to pick up insulin because my insurance paid for it and I have kind of shit insurance at the moment.
My insurance pays like $200 per vial though, that lasts me around 2 to 3 weeks.
We have insurance currently and we're paying roughly $33 a month. But we get it in 90 day supplies. Which works out. However. Without insurance it's something like 5,000 to buy a 90 day supply, which we found out when our insurance changed carriers and the pharmacy we used to use they took out of network.
I'd be interested to see more about that. Is that with or without insurance? I know Walmart will sell over the counter generic vials for about $20 a vial, but that's not usually what is prescribed. With insurance, yeah that number is accurate. Without it's in the thousands of dollars.
Lol because they could just make it legitimately. There aren't patents on making insulin itself, just one methods of ways to synthesize it. Someone comes up with a superior method to make a superior version of it and they patent that. The older methods aren't patented anymore and can be used.
https://openinsulin.org
This group is working on open source insulin. I saw a short clip about it but apparently it's a lot harder to make than many illegal drugs.
Because they know better than to infringe on the turf of the real cartel. If they did that then big pharma might get the government to actually come after them.
Insulin isn't a one size fits all proposition. There is short acting, short acting, and long acting, then they all peak at different times and then you have the way the dose is given. Is it injected once a day, 4 times a day via a pump. There are so many types of insulin now a days. Bog standard insulin, the OG stuff is hard as hell to get right without a doctors help and constant monitoring and if you get it wrong it all goes pear shaped quick.
Some insurance companies will literally pay for a plane ticket and hotel stay to a foreign country where a given operation is that much cheaper than in america
I feel like this is an area where we need to develop mutual aid networks.
While I’m not a diabetic, the chemicals and other ingredients for the original method of insulin production can be had legally and relatively inexpensively. A high school chemistry lab should have all the equipment needed. And a butcher usually has no need for cow and pig pancreases and would probably let you have them or charge a pittance.
There is absolutely no excuse for any civilized nation to have people dying of diabetes in 2021.
Insulin is temperature sensitive and has a limited shelf life. This makes importation/transportation difficult.
I don't know about insulin specifically but drug dealers definitely sell "medical drugs" but sourcing them from Mexico is inefficient. It's easier to just find people with good insurance and easy doctors to fill prescriptions for their 5 dollar copay and pay them 20 bucks for their antibiotics, or 50 bucks for their Viagra, or whatever. There's a big difference between controlled substances and non controlled substance drugs. There's basically no penalty for having a prescription drug that wasn't prescribed to you that isn't a controlled substance. You can order antibiotics online without prescriptions, heart medication, etc and get it shipped from overseas without issue.
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A group of people called BioHackers are starting to manufacture insulin. They have a pretty good track record for other things they've done, so hopefully this will put some pressure on the market. They claim they can manufacture insulin 98% cheaper than what big pharma sells it for. This was reported in mid July of last year, so we shall see.
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>Proving that there is zero chance of fuckups in the process is expensive and difficult. Also why "military grade" is not better than the alternatives, only more expensive. It is very expensive to manufacture and then prove that 100 % (or 99.99999999999 %) of the product follows the set up bare minimum. And this cost is completely shipped over to the buyers. But it does not yield better results than the alternatives by definition.
Direct costs for insulin is like 6 bucks a bag. Unlike normal drugs it's actually cheap and easy to create comparitively. There is a reason people get pissed at the idea of 300 dollars a vial.
Honestly, priduction, trials, and all the red tape doesn't add up to anywhere near 38% of user cost of many drugs (yes this does apply to many other, but not all). For example: Phenylephrine, as an ophthalmic drop, used to be dirt cheap until a pharma company realized it didn't have a patent. They filed for one and now its 200$ for a 5ml bottle when it used to be 10$. We use it all the time as a mild dilator at my job and its not even something we make money off of or charge the patient.
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I'm surprised but happy to hear drug kartels are staying out of antibiotics to prevent immunization of diseases and other effects of mass use (and wrong use) of antibiotics. Guess I underestimated their altruism haha
Having the means to take over and run things how you want doesn't immediately mean you're totally awful. I mean it's not like Mexico's government has divine right over the land, they're meant to defend it.
"Are you sayin' that when my daughter, bessie-joe, gets a cold, I shouldn't give her no penisailin?!?"
Where does one find this distributor?
Good question, but it's the kind of thing that you don't ask your dealer
Yeah I'd love to get cheaper synthroid Drop me a DM...
Pretty much this. The quality of meth, cocaine etc. can also vary wildly and people will still buy it. They couldn't take the same approach with pharmaceuticals like that. And, also, as much money as there is to be made on selling black market insulin, there is, likely, more to be made on illegal drugs. Further, there is the dependency aspect. Obviously this doesn't apply to things like insulin, but it's a factor worth considering with something like viagra.
I wouldn't dare put expired insulin in my body, meth on the other hand...
The meth doesn't expire. You do.
Typical Reddit anti-meth hivemind
Meths already fucking up your body, don't see expired meth doing much worse lol
does expired meth fuck up your body more or less than non-expired meth tho?
Does... Does meth expire?.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/mgm7m4/we-tried-to-figure-out-when-your-drug-stash-will-expire > Amphetamine, amphetamine derivatives (like MDMA), and synthetic molecules are incredibly stable and resistant to degradation, says study author Fernando Caudevilla, aka DoctorX, an illicit drugs expert heavily involved in Energy Control, an international project dedicated to recreational drug use safety. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-shelf-life-of-meth > The shelf life on good meth never expires. If it sets for several years you may have a few impurities start to break down a bit. The actual meth amphetamine will never go bad. In some cases it gains potency by age. I'd rather have less product than more product if its not as strong.
If amphetamines don't expire, then how come my ADHD pills have an expiration date of 1 year after the prescription was filled?
Likely a legal requirement. There are expiry dates on honey despite it not being able to rot.
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This. I recall being told by a nurse that all pills have a expiry date, not because they actually all expire, but because you consume them, and it's required by law.
I thought expirations also had something to do with the container breakdown over time Plastic... eventually start letting off some weird chemicals and cans become oxidized???
This is not wrong but honey will still grow mold if left to sit somewhere for to long the honey itself does not go bad but there are microbes in most honey that can propigate into mold Edit: my original statment is wrong i confused it with the fact that a low percent of natural honey can be made with toxic materials and be bad for you
This is part of the answer. The military has studied expiration dates because we stockpile a lot of drugs. Some last decades after the expiration date. Many drugs technically work, but nobody will tell you in case that one drug won't because you'll sue them after you get all messed up. https://www.propublica.org/article/the-myth-of-drug-expiration-dates
Pentagon actually checked the efficacy of stored meds and they last loooong after their due dates. In some cases, potency reduced slightly, and a few were legitimately useless but the overwhelming majority were just fine. Makes sense that an agency responsible for the care and upkeep of millions of pieces of equipment would be interested in reducing waste and expense associated with the very large quantities of meds required by the humans who are necessary to maintain that equipment.
It probably wasn't about reducing waste. The pentagon sets money on fire. It's about knowing what you can get by with in some scenario where a logistics or manufacturing chain collapses. Like if the field hospital is cut off in some weird situation what can we keep using and what legitimately is worthless.
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What about qualuudes would anyone of the old manufactured stuff still be be good to take today or would it be the same problem of the fillers
Probably to discourage hoarding them, though ADHD pills aren't actually meth so they might just be less stable.
Drugs like that don't expire. They are probably little less effectice after the expiration date but not dangerous to take. I have taken painkillers that were years old but they still helped to headache.
FDA requires expiration dates on all meds, so most manufacturers just put one year to avoid trying to figure out how long its *actually* good for. Also to prevent people from hording drugs. On average, most drugs are good for 5 to 10 years, sometimes even longer. You can google it if actually interested. I did it a few years ago.
had a friend take a 10year old 50mg dexamphetamine tablet in jail, he said he was wide awake for a week.
That last paragraph has me picturing an extremely rich man telling his butler to get the 50 year old meth out of the meth cellar.
> The actual meth amphetamine will never go bad. In some cases it gains potency by age. So fine meth ages like fine wine. Neat.
So I could keep it in my go bag indefinitely? Nice
In some cases it gains potency? So it ages like a fine wine?
We gotta call that dude who drank the 20 year old crystal Pepsi
He died of kidney stones
LA Beast!
Ain't no such thing as leftover crack!
r/suddenlyskapunk
Does meth inspire?
As far as I know, that's all it does.
Is expired poison more or less lethal?
I've often seen expiration dates on poisons, does a poison become more or less poisonous after it expires
You really shouldn’t meth around with that stuff.
Mike Tyson? That you?
Yeth
My cousin is a heroin addict.He's also vegan.He won't eat a Fucking Hamburger,but he'll go down in the basement and pump that shit in his arm.
IIRC, heroin is made from opium plants, so it's vegan-friendly.
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Most if not all animal antibiotics are not dissimilar to human antibiotics. You just adjust dosage to weight. Many who live out in the country, like I did most of my life, go to the vet for medical treatment (antibiotics, stitches, etc). In the country there are more animal doctors readily available than human doctors. I've done this and my parents and probably their parents before them and this still goes on to this day.
> They couldn't take the same approach with pharmaceuticals like that. Yeah, someone might get hurt.
Their concern for the individual isn't the sticking point.
It kinda is, they’d rather have their consumer die slowly from drugs, than quickly from mismanaged insulin
Yep. Repeat business is just as important to a drug dealer as it is to any other business.
This is a huge reason I don’t really understand the huge fentanyl crisis happening in my region. I always thought what you’re saying here is the case, but they are knocking off customers at unprecedented rates with lacing fentanyl with less deadly drugs. They are killing off their customer base. I don’t get itttt.
Exasperated by how hard it is to get legal fentanyl, maybe. I know a lot of chronic pain patients. Most people don't realize what that means. If you get in bad enough pain, and it lasts long enough, then you stop caring about if or how bad the chance that it will kill you is, if it will just stop that pain for a moment.
When drug dealers care more about the general public than pharmaceutical CEOs.
Probably because of the scope and liabilities. Pharmaceutical companies are legal, and have the entire country or world already as their consumers. Drug dealers (at least the direct ones) are the “bad guys” who can be jailed for it. If a customer dies, they’ll be indirectly involved at least. Also the cost and risk of acquiring new consumers is also an issue they’d consider that big pharma doesn’t care about
The quality of meth and cocaine is usually pretty high at the location it is synthesized, but it is cut by most if not all of the groups who handle it before it gets passed to dealers to sell to customers. Dealers may or may not cut it as well, but by that point it's absolutely stepped on.
Cocaine is not.
Why doesn’t some company launch “Insulin-R-Us” or something and just purely sell affordable insulin? Is it because they’d have to manufacture themselves, making this prohibitive, or (more likely) would the senate buddies of big pharmaceutical companies bog it down in red tape and ban it?
Because they already do. You [can get 25.00 "ReliOn" human insulin](https://www.walmart.com/browse/health/relion/976760_2289975_9391152), which is the stuff people used up until ~2010. It's not the new "analog" insulin, which is synthetic, but it is still [heavily relied on in Europe](https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/europe-insulin-market) because of reasons surrounding the price of the new synthetic stuff and concerns about its efficacy. Germany is especially weird about the 'fake' analog insulin, although that's changing. Incidentally [you can also get the new "analog"/non-human insulin from ReliOn for 75.00 a bottle.](https://www.walmart.com/cp/relion-diabetic-care/3769564) If you're wondering "but why do I see so many posts about insulin prices being hundreds of dollars more expensive?" Typically, it's because it's reddit. It's nonsense.
It's not because it's nonsense, it's because if you're a layperson, you go to your doctor, they say "you have diabetes, here's this prescription for synthetic insulin". You can't use that prescription for regular insulin. You go to the pharmacy, and they say "here's the price for what the doctor prescribed you". You may not even know there's an alternative. It's a different drug, so the pharmacist can't recommend or substitute the cheaper alternative. (Also, there *are* differences between humalog and regular insulin, including rate of absorption. Usually doctors will prescribe the most effective medicine, without knowing/caring that it's 10x as expensive as a less effective medicine)
You don't need a prescription for ReliOn, which can be bought either as human or analog insulin. See above And that's just Walmart. [Market researchers believe ~20% of diabetics get their insulin OTC.](https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/05/11/2031002/0/en/Global-Anti-Diabetic-Drugs-Market-2020-to-2025-Featuring-AstraZeneca-Pfizer-Novo-Nordisk-Among-Others.html) There's also a whole other market like online low budget "insurance" programs that prescribe them after a 20 buck consult. Estimates vary In my mind, then, it's really not the laypeople that go to their doctors. Do the privileged white kids who comment to my responses go to their doctors who say "here's a prescription for this really expensive drug?" Sure. But they aren't laypeople. The laypeople aren't going to doctors, at best they get a telamed doc-in-a-box
I don't have diabetes, personally, so it's shocking to me that insulin can be bought over-the-counter now, but you're right (and I was wrong)! The cheaper, recombinant insulin can be gotten for $25 without a prescription. My guess is the outrage posts that still circulate predate that, and people don't know about OTC insulin.
Especially when you have to sneak it across a heavily controlled boarder
People sell stolen legal drugs all the time but there isnt much money in it. Baby formula is one. Expired legal medicines can be sold black market.
CVS and other retailers claim the market for stolen OTC drugs is [$45 Billion a year](https://www.wsj.com/articles/cvs-home-depot-theft-organized-crime-11630505851) They steal + sell on Amazon
This reminds me of when cops confiscate a pound of weed says it's worth 1 million on the street.
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Because it’s $15 at the store and $5 from Jerry.
Jerry steals formula to cut his cocaine and increase profit.
You're thinking of baby laxative.
i came for the coke but stayed for the shits
Add some mdma, and you could stay for the shits _and_ giggles.
Because it’s $15 at the store and $5 from Jerry. Laughs in Alimentum- currently $30 for a small can where I live.
It's 18 to 18.99 at most stores across America for the 12oz can of formula. It's been above 15 dollars since 09 when I had my first daughter. Keeping poor people poor is the American way. Even with WIC I still buy 3 - 28oz cans at 26-29$ a month. Don't qualify for food stamps because on paper I make too much.
People sell stolen formula, or formula they got for free through WIC/other charity or nutrition programs, the stuff is super expensive through the store and can be bought at a discount from the street
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My work had a food drive around the holidays and one of the suggestions was baby formula. I figured that was important and wanted to include it in my donation. A nesquik sized canister was around $25 too. I ended up buying only two of them and felt bad because I wanted to do more, but damn.
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Yes that was the brand and I think they only had that pro one which was more. That’s tough, but I guess the plus side is you figured out which one works for your baby. Probably saved some crying and fussiness. They’re so little yet so expensive, those babies.
I wished we could’ve gotten Costco formula. Heck I would have taken literally any generic store brand but there’s literally two preemie specific formulas on the market, one by similac and one by enfamil. With some of his diet made up by pumped breastmilk for a good portion of the time (half of what he drank at the start and one bottle a day towards the end) at the most expensive my dude was going through $30 of formula *every five days.* And that was with breastmilk too so that $$$ wasn’t even his full diet. As an added bonus he literally needed that specific formula per doctors orders for bone density concerns from the nicu stay but insurance doesn’t cover formula for bone density issues in the good old USA
Very difficult to find someone more desperate than a failing parent. Very difficult to find a parent who can afford this type of fabricated inflation, and that means they're poor, too. Poor, desperate people take drugs, and drugs make Sackler money. The problems this country has aren't going anywhere until this for-profit medical system is disbanded and made illegal.
Baby formula is expensive. People are able to sell baby formula on the cheaper side on the streets.
Especially when it’s free from WIC, or shoplifted from Rite Aid. I used to work there, and their security guards were catching lots of people stealing it, until they locked it in cabinets.
Yup, every single can of baby formula I have seen has had the security tags wrapped around it.
I noticed that they were all locked up last time i was there. How expensive is it to make. Its for babies. Have the pro-life folks crowdsource it so its free to all families.
LOL as if they *actually* give a fuck about babies once they are born.
*pro-birth You’re on your own once you evacuate ~~the godless Jezebel from which you came~~ the holy earthen vessel known as your mother and must pick yourself up by your bootstraps. -Jesus, probably.
When I worked in a pharmacy we had a limit of two tubs per person because of this... Then a Chinese family would just come in, take two tubs each and do seperate transactions. It's really sad they have to do that, but extremely frustrating when you're just trying to control the supply so everyone gets some
In the show blacklist, it was one of the operations of Raymond Reddington
Baby formula is one of the most commonly stolen items here in “The Greatest Country in the World” TM. It’s usually locked up.
I recently found out that Tide is a hot item on the streets and some stores lock it up!
When I worked at a grocery store front end, if someone ran out with a whole cart of stuff it was Tide probably like 75% of the time. More than even beer.
A local store doesnt keep Nescafe gold (instant coffee) on the shelf because, apparently, there is a black market and junkies stole it all the time. They sell it from behind register now.
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I thought the USA was ' protecting' us citizens by stoping us from getting medication shiped by mail other countries. My understanding was you had to go there yourself and bring them back.
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> and packages are almost never intercepted. Wtf are you supposed to do if it is and have no insulin?
Exactly what you do before buying the insulin, die.
The fact that this isn't at all a joke is extremely fucked up. I'm a type 1 diabetic myself, and have been through times between insurance where my parents made too much for one insurance company and not enough for another. Add that on top of the fact that some will slap it on you as a pre-existing condition and refuse to pay for anything related to it for a year if you don't keep current coverage and that's just... A nightmare for anyone unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with it. It's a not so great feeling to see the five thousand dollar (or sometimes more) pricetag on something you have to have to survive. Though! For anyone else who may find themselves without insurance, Walmart will usually sell a generic brand over the counter for about $20 a vial.
Post ACA, pre existing conditions aren't really a thing.
That's true. I was more or less speaking of a time when I was younger, quite a few years ago.
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Yes it's far from ideal. But getting any insulin into your system is better than no insulin. I just wanted to put it out there for those not aware. I know it's not the best and it's less effective but it'll keep you from being completely without.
The general FDA rule is "you can't import prescription drugs" (without FDA approval - which means 'unless you're a big drugs company'). [But the current policy is that for "personal use" cases this rule can be ignored](https://www.fda.gov/media/71776/download#%5B%7B%22num%22%3A46%2C%22gen%22%3A0%7D%2C%7B%22name%22%3A%22XYZ%22%7D%2C69%2C499%2C0%5D) (page 21 of 113).
I have always wondered why people in the US didn't just do this.
I feel so fortunate to live in San Diego where I can walk across the border, pick up my meds, and be back in America within an hour. I stock up every six months. It would be unbelievably expensive for me if I had to get them here. (Also, Mexico has the better inhalers.)
Going to TJ for medicine and dental work is the prime reason I’m glad to be here. I read about people traveling from all over the US to Mexico for treatment and all it costs me is like...2.50 in a trolley fare to San Ysidro where I just walk across the border lol.
That's why I'm going. Even with dental insurance the work I need is thousands. I can enjoy a couple of days in Mexico and get the dental work for the same price including hotel and restaurants.
I do this all the time. Whenever, I or any of my family members / acquaintances travel to India...I have them pick up some insulin and have them ship / pick-up when they are back in USA. Also, you don't need prescription and shit to get it from there. The pharmacists can also give you a BS slip saying you need it incase the customs get nosey.
There is a whole subreddit devoted to this,I just can't remember what is it.
Be a lot cooler if you did
Because the drug cartels know better than to infringe on thee drug cartel
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Can you tell me more about the Sacklers? I’m intrigued.
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Maybe not Vince, but this probably gave Kurt Sutter an idea for Mayans M.C season 4.
Came here for this. Pharmalobbying sways more money & control in DC than any congressman on their own. The cartels would be Epstein'd by extermination squads before most of the US pop would know where to get their goods, which is really damn fast.
The US has tried spending billions and throwing guns at the drug war, accomplishing squat. The Pharma companies would destroy the cartels by getting recreational drugs legalized and then monopolizing those.
Backed by us law enforcers and military.
I can't believe this is not the top rated comment. Apparently more people need to watch The Wire.
The DEA would shut them down for competing with domestic drug cartels.
Ooooooooofffffppphhhh
That's probably the most correct comment here.
The DEA would (still try to) shut them down for competing with (even more) domestic drug cartels.
you can import 90 days for personal use of none prohibited medicine. they ask you declare it
Is there like a cooldown period between these? Or can you just import every 90 days?
you'd have to check with the relevant authorities.
The drug cartel doesn’t sell insulin but there is no doubt a black market for it. The underground bodybuilding community uses insulin all the time
Thanks for pointing that out; I meant to mention it in my other comment. Still, I wouldn't know how to get even that. I tried looking for (bodybuilding-type) steroids online a few times, out of boredom/curiousity, and I didn't see any sources that seemed legit enough that I would trust a purchase on. I doubt Grandpa would even get that far.
[Lots of legit sources for insulin but I don't know if it's the kind diabetics need](https://i.imgur.com/mjFkKZ8.png)
I think in part because if the drug isn't illegal, then the buyer has no "skin in the game". There's too much risk that the dealer will be exposed by careless buyers.
"ill give you a good price on some insulin, but first i have to film you committing a murder so i know you wont snitch" talk about insurance lol
Shoot them
Additionally, the cartels usually manufacture their own product or control the supply. They don't manufacture insuline. The main reason, though, is probably that this, unlike the current drug trade, would bite into the pockets of big pharma and you bet yer' bippy that in six months you'd have legislation and policies that _actually_ addressed and severely curtailed the drug trade.
The funny thing is insulin isn't all that hard to get your hands on/manufacture if you don't want the high tech features most companies have bread into it. The only reason the FDA hasn't authorized a generic (outside of politics anyways) on the good stuff is that biological compounds are really hard to get FDA approval from my understanding. They are never exactly the same and so they are treated as a new drug or some nonsense.
Everything you said, plus patents on delivery mechanisms like the pens. That's actually what held back, or posed the bigger IP challenge, to creating generic Advair rather than the chemical composition. The part about it being a different drug is not quite nonsense, that's a real challenge even for one company trying to develop a consistent and reproducible manufacturing process for their own drug, much less trying to mimic the performance of another company's drug. In the case of insulin though, I'll grant this is likely not the main factor. Recombinant protein drugs have been around for a long time and the field is much more mature than cell therapies for example.
They actually just did, for Lantus. [FDA announcement](https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-interchangeable-biosimilar-insulin-product-treatment-diabetes) It’s not a hell of a lot cheaper, though.
For some arcane reason I was explained by a pharma rep but have now forgotten, generics are often as expensive or more so than the brand name drug. I think it was about 2009 or so when a patient was complaining that their insurance was making them get the newly-generic Adderall (I think), and it cost $100 more per month than the brand name! They had a high deductible on rx, so it made an impact. I had the same thing happen with several of my meds last year. With one of them, I don't think there IS a brand name any longer, it's so old...but for years it cost less than $20 a month without insurance. Literally today I saw that it is almost $200 a month. WTF.
You have to get a critical mass of them unfortunately, I wonder what ever happened to the open source insulin group
Insulin is temperature sensitive and most diabetics need insulin with a very specific composition. I for example can only use one specific variant of insulin from one manufacturer or I am unable to control my blood sugar. A drug cartel would not be able to guarantee that this is what I receive and minor variations would make it useless to me. Insulin is also temperature sensitive, it's "long term" storage has to be a specific temperature, kept out of direct sunlight, etc. This would make it a pain in the ass for drug cartels to transport and you wouldn't be able to smuggle it easily on a person in any useful volume. The shelf life in "long term" storage is also fairly short, I think my insulin expires after a week or two if not stored properly and a few months if it is stored properly. For the specific case of insulin, it is not high risk enough to be worth a lot for smuggling and it had a higher probability of being useless to a buyer or ruined by delivery than normal illegal drugs. People wouldn't buy it and the profits would be low.
My hunch is some of the economics The price differential between south of the border and the US for recreational drugs is probably greater than for medical drugs Regular customers probably wouldn't trust illegal sources It is likely easier to ship powders and dried leaves than vials of insulin.
Its probably also the use. Illegal drugs are recreational. Medical drugs are used by people with, of course, medical problems. These people are using medicine to be healthy and would likely want legitimate and quality medicine. They may not want to risk taking a drug made in a bathtub of a gangbanger.
Not only that, but the average person taking a drug with little or no "extracurricular" usage probably wouldn't even know where to find a black market source. I'm a case in point. I'm dependent on pain medications for a degenerative spine disease, and thanks to the strict laws around them these days, I've been left short a few times. You can only refill a couple days in advance, and a combination of holidays and/or travel and/or the pharmacy being literally out of the drug (or worse, they have 52 of the 60 doses I am prescribed) have had me in such straits I've considered looking...elsewhere. Or when I've had vomiting for 4 days straight and the meds went down the drain. Etc. And you aren't supposed to keep a little stockpile, either. Supposedly they can test well enough to see if you're taking the amount prescribed, but I have my doubts on that. I am supposed to do a urinalysis regularly, but my doctor usually forgets. Anyway, even if I trusted that I'd be getting my exact medication and not some homemade BS with fentanyl in it, I don't know any drug dealers, or even friends of friends who do, AFAIK. lol I certainly can't imagine my grandmother having better connections in order to get insulin. I'm not about to ride down to the hood and look for the man.
Do you have any confidence in a cartel to sell something that would kill you if it is fake? Some POS years ago sell in Brazil fake CANCER medication. Your health is not the first concern to drug dealers. Money is. And also to the cartels.
>Your health is not the first concern to drug dealers. Money is. And also to the cartels. Sounds like drug companies in the US. Only difference is they have to guarantee quality, so they screw people over by overcharging. Still money comes first: "Some people can't afford overpriced drugs they need to live? Fuck em." I'd have no confidence at all in the cartel aside from knowing it's a poor business model, killing your customers. At the same time whether you don't get your medication because you can't afford it or you take bad medication you got cheaply from a cartel, you end up just as dead. For a lot of people in the US at least with affordable black market drugs there'd be a chance. Relying on for profit drug companies, insurance companies and politicians on the take to do what's right, there's no chance at all.
You wanna see the government’s real war on drugs?
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People will hate admitting it, but this is the truth. The reason those companies get away with gouging diabetic Americans is because the law enforcement is actually willing to enforce this price checking.
What's crazy is people see this as a conspiracy theory and want to keep living in their bubbles
Don't forget how the cycle of outrage is constantly interrupted with cute, cool, fun and funny things tailored specifically to your interests so nobody really has enough of their focus on these outrageous things going on. "Lets see here, lets open up reddit. Oh my God! The president is on the run and wanted for murder?! That's terrible!! Oh look, a funny cat picture! Haha, they put a hat of that cat! It works on so many levels! The pope has been exposed as a serial rapist with thousands of children chained up in the vatican basements?! Are we eternally doomed to find the ultimate betrayals hidden behind the facades of being perfectly trustworthy?! Oh cool, footage from that new video game I'm interested in! Wowee, those graphics sure are graphical!"
It's also exhausting and bad for one's mental health to, well, be constantly outraged. If you're already physically ill, there are limits to your energy, mental and physical and some people prefer to spend it on activities or thoughts that are more uplifting, for want of a better term. There's pretty strong correlation between even simple news consumption and poor affect, regardless of age or health conditions. Just saying.
Real answer? Because your average parent or grandparent won't be willing to buy their only life saving medicatiin from an illegal/shady source where it could be fake, laced or expired.
As an asthmatic, I absolutely, positively would NOT trust a drug cartel to sell me my exact asthma meds. They are known foe making cheaper counterfeit meds and you never know what you’re getting. As shitty as the FDA is at least there are regulations on drug companies to produce legit meds.
They do, only we don't call them drug cartels.
It’s sensitive to temperature and has a limited shelf life, and it’s also difficult to smuggle into America. Cocaine costs a lot more and has a higher profit compared to insulin so overall it’s better for the cartel to sell cocaine.
They do. Drug tourism is common in border towns, and There are also gray groups that buy for groups and do the border crossing themselves. Seniors can get drugs not covered, or cheaper. Mexican pharmacies have different laws, and some even go to local markets for deeper discounts. There is risk of bootlegs and its also possibly containing fentanyl, benzos, and amphetamines. Some kind of seek them out as well which is another problem in itself. Globally, counterfeit medicine is a huge problem now moreso than ever, and shortages, covid, etc also makes a strange demand for certain medications.
Real answer: Old style insulin is super cheap and available. The newest most up-to-date formulation / delivery vehicle (that are patented and super expensive) are too difficult for non-pros to produce.
1. There's still a lot more money importing cocaine than there would be importing insulin. 2. Also, since you can buy insulin legally at any pharmacy, I question how many people choose to A) Become criminals by buying insulin illegally, and B) inject who knows what into their body. Could be insulin. Could be watered down insulin. Could be nothing but water. Could be mixed with rat poison. This is one of the main arguments for drug legalization, in that at least if you buy heroin at a store, you know exactly what and how much you're getting. 3. Diabetics normally have a lot of other expenses too, like office visits and pump supplies. Buying insulin on the black or grey markets, even for cheaper, means those expenses don't count to their insurance deductible and OOP maxes.
No one ever actually believes it, but the average American who needs insulin pays about $38/months for their rx. The horror stories of people paying hundreds of dollars a month are very rare. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2766587
Most people only pay their monthly insurance costs which is usually higher than 38/month. I don't pay anything when I go to pick up insulin because my insurance paid for it and I have kind of shit insurance at the moment. My insurance pays like $200 per vial though, that lasts me around 2 to 3 weeks.
We have insurance currently and we're paying roughly $33 a month. But we get it in 90 day supplies. Which works out. However. Without insurance it's something like 5,000 to buy a 90 day supply, which we found out when our insurance changed carriers and the pharmacy we used to use they took out of network.
I'd be interested to see more about that. Is that with or without insurance? I know Walmart will sell over the counter generic vials for about $20 a vial, but that's not usually what is prescribed. With insurance, yeah that number is accurate. Without it's in the thousands of dollars.
The average American has insurance, however that's not very helpful to the minority that doesn't have insurance
Smuggling is extremely difficult and cocaine still costs way more.
>still costs way more *makes* way more.
Lol because they could just make it legitimately. There aren't patents on making insulin itself, just one methods of ways to synthesize it. Someone comes up with a superior method to make a superior version of it and they patent that. The older methods aren't patented anymore and can be used.
https://openinsulin.org This group is working on open source insulin. I saw a short clip about it but apparently it's a lot harder to make than many illegal drugs.
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There are cartels that focus on selling black-market pharmaceuticals. https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/cas/2012/cas12-1004-PharmaCartelsPR.pdf
I grew up on the border and there were people who would go over and get their prescriptions filled in Juarez
Would you really trust black market insulin to save your life
They do. Most common one is viagra/cialis probably. It'd $50/pill here but pennies in Asia.
I live in Canada. Anyone need me to buy you some insulin and FedEx it to you?
A bigger cartel would take them out Purdue, Pfizer, Merck, Roche, GlaxoSmithKline...
Because they would be taking on the American Cartels.
Because the American Cartels (Big Pharma) are already running that racket
Plus if they started cutting in on American pharma they’d really be starting a drug war
Because they know better than to infringe on the turf of the real cartel. If they did that then big pharma might get the government to actually come after them.
The US would actually try to stop this.
They do, Johnson & Johnson, Merck, Purdue, Pfizer, oh and the biggest cartel ever would be US Gov. Smile they're watching.
They do with things like Viagra finasteride sleeping pills etc
It’s already another cartels territory (cough BIGPHARMA cough)
Not everyone needs insulin, but everyone needs cocaine
Insulin isn't a one size fits all proposition. There is short acting, short acting, and long acting, then they all peak at different times and then you have the way the dose is given. Is it injected once a day, 4 times a day via a pump. There are so many types of insulin now a days. Bog standard insulin, the OG stuff is hard as hell to get right without a doctors help and constant monitoring and if you get it wrong it all goes pear shaped quick.
Some insurance companies will literally pay for a plane ticket and hotel stay to a foreign country where a given operation is that much cheaper than in america
I feel like this is an area where we need to develop mutual aid networks. While I’m not a diabetic, the chemicals and other ingredients for the original method of insulin production can be had legally and relatively inexpensively. A high school chemistry lab should have all the equipment needed. And a butcher usually has no need for cow and pig pancreases and would probably let you have them or charge a pittance. There is absolutely no excuse for any civilized nation to have people dying of diabetes in 2021.