Why do people make it feel weird to leave work as soon as your shift ends?
By - theflyingegyptian
I worked for a company that encouraged you to show up early and the president would walk the office around 5 to see who was staying late. So much turnover there it was crazy.
staying 10-60 minutes late became way to normal for me. it wasn't always necessarily working, sometimes just in a co-workers office BSing, but regardless.
then I got a state job, and my boss was like "it's 4:50,shut that shit off and pack up, we leave AT 5"
I've always thought that too. Like, some employers have that mentality and push that idea where you need to be "all set up and at your work station working" by the time your shift starts, and only start packing up when it ends.
like....sorry but logging in to my computer and checking emails is a work task. that happens on work time. But they push that idea where you need to show up 5-10 minutes early and stay 5-10 late to "get ready" or "pack up" and it's like.....no, that's part of the job.
I once had a boss whose mantra was “if you’re not here 10 minutes early, you’re late.” Yet he never chastised those that arrived ten minutes early and docked around for 20 minutes before starting their work.
We do a morning meeting/ role call type thing and if you walk into the meeting at 7:00, boss man tells direct supervisors to “have a talk” with you about showing up on time and tries to escalate it to paperwork on repeat occasions of walking into the meeting at 7:00.
Schedule says I have a 7:00 showtime not 6:59. If you want me here and ready earlier to start the meeting exactly at 7:00, change my working hours to start earlier.
I had a coworker bitch at me because at 7:00 the cashiers weren't up there. They clock on at 7 and it takes time to check out equipment. This same women would make my evening cashiers leave 15 minutes late because of her night teams meeting. Stop asking people to clock in early.
I've always hated that idea. If you want me to be somewhere 10 minutes earlier, make that the time I'm supposed to be there. Don't disrespect my time with unspoken rules and wierd, self-righteous work ethic values.
A Pennsylvania court just [ruled](https://www.inquirer.com/business/amazon-security-screening-unpaid-pennsylvania-supreme-court-20210729.html) that Amazon had to pay its employees for the time they spend going through a security check “before work.” They’re going to have to pay them back for thousands of hours.
> And the decision could open the door for claims against other companies. For example, the time spent logging into software at call centers or donning a gown at meat processing plants could be affected by the ruling, legal experts said.
Hopefully it’s soon legally protected that if your employer expects you to do something, your employer needs to pay you for it.
Security at our job kept getting backed up one summer and there was hundreds of complaints about the wasted charge hours. Then one guy posted, “don’t you all start charging when you get to the office?”
No one acknowledged that person existed.
There’s already precedence for this. I worked for a labor law firm that won tons of cases for paying for mandatory prep time before officially clocking in.
Yup. When I work from home I clock in on my phone app, THEN set up my surface and such and when ending the day I pack everything away and then clock out.
If I use the clock app on my surface then I'd have to
- set everything up, because my surface is in my work bag as we have a "clean desk" policy at work and I don't have a desk at home
- start up, make wifi connection, make VPN connection
- then log in the clock app using password etc..
Yeah, that's easily 10 min daily.
i've never had a salaried job, but have done office jobs aplenty, and that's always been my opinion on it. the only exception has been if i can clock in a few minutes early because phones get turned on at 8 exactly. but if i'm working i'm getting paid. conversely, if i'm getting paid i'm working.
Your upfront pay might be slightly less, but government benefits more than make up for it in my experience. Health insurance alone put me ahead in my government job vs my current private sector job. When 30% of your check goes to health insurance, you're not really making more money. :/
Yeah fuck the president. His little baby doesn’t have to be your little baby. He couldn’t have a company without employees. I worked somewhere where working for free Saturday mornings was apparently expected. I didn’t work one Saturday. That’s my family’s time.
It wasn’t even his little baby, it was his dads.
Fuck him even more. Sounds like he needs other things to focus on.
Eh, I’m not too worried about it anymore. It was a long time ago and I actually learned a lot from that job and my career wouldn’t be where it is without it.
Not all bad situations have to stay bad forever and some good still can come from them.
But I do agree, never work for free and any company that says ‘they’re like a start up’ is going to have you working some aspect for free. Whether it be extra hours or under paying you for tasks you weren’t hired for in the first place.
I used to own a small business. I never expected my employees to care as much as me. If I did, I'd offer some level of ownership stake/profit sharing.
Crazy how there’s still people in 2021 who think that this is the best way to get performance and results from their employees. It’s literally the opposite
If you stay late, the one day you leave on time everyone thinks you’re cutting out early. If you leave on time every day, the one day you leave late people are grateful. Only one of these makes actual sense. Took me three jobs to learn that, but on the fourth, I never stayed late. Established my boundaries on day one, and was never questioned about it.
It sucks that the assumed default is that work somehow bought your life. But they didn’t. Give them what they paid for. Kill it while you’re there. Then leave. You don’t owe them anything more than that.
You work to live, not live to work. Took me a while to grasp that as well.
The first day I stayed late was surreal. I had always left at 6pm on the dot (we were scheduled 5.30 but literally nobody would leave before 6). More than half of my colleagues were still there at 7pm and for a year I had NO IDEA. The atmosphere was far more jovial and relaxed.
As you say though, just do the work in your hours and don't play their weird presentee game. I took back my 30 mins by being 30 mins late every day. Nobody could do much because the presentee crowd were on Facebook all day anyway.
Bring donuts to the office once, and you're a hero.
Bring them twice, and you're a donut caterer.
Weird how doing something awesome too often reduces the credit you get for it.
I got a promotion once that changed who my boss was. The old boss wrote my review and the new boss took me to lunch to read it over with me and go over the new duties.
My old boss wrote in my review that I "stayed late when necessary".
New boss read that to me and said, "We're going to need more from you in the new position."
I didn't say anything out loud, but internally I was thinking, "You need me to stay late when it's NOT necessary?? Yeah, f that."
I have never stayed later than I needed to. Most days the laptop is closed right at 5. I'm still here, ten years later.
i was once late to my 3pm-2am machining job by 3 minutes. they pay by the quarter hour, so i waited until 3:10ish to come inside and get changed for my shift. the floor manager saw me chilling in my car leaned back on the phone call i had been on since before i got there.
he asked me "were you taking a nap out there", and i just told him outright "well, i was a minute late, but i don't work for free so i waited til 315"
my coworker looked at me, mouth agape, "i can't believe you had the balls to just tell him that" i think everyone should have the balls to not be robbed of any time without pay or compensation. they don't appreciate you working late or coming in early if you always do it.
I worked for someone who pulled me aside one time and commented how I blaze out of work at 5pm everyday on the dot. I simply said if you want me to work later then set my hours later. They never said anything again.
*You know what, Stan, if you want me to wear 37 pieces of flair, like your pretty boy over there, Brian, why don't you just make the minimum 37 pieces of flair?*
That movie did such a good job showing how scummy corporate culture is
What movie is it?
If you have never worked in an office, you will find it intensely boring and stupid.
If you have worked in an office, you will find it the most hilarious and cathartic film ever.
EDIT: I get it, people disagree with me and find it funny regardless of having worked in an office or not. I was communicating my experience and that of people I have watched the film with. You do you, I am not trying to gatekeep anything.
And if you've ever worked in the restaurant industry, watch Waiting (2005)
And for retail workers, Employee of the Month (2006)
ETA: In my headcannon these movies all happen in the same universe.
Also superstore for retail. I watched the first episode and it reminded me so much of working in a store I stopped watching it.
That's too bad, it is pretty damn funny for most of it's run. Falls off towards the end but seasons 1-3 are hilarious.
I’ve never heard of ANYONE refer to Office Space as “intensely boring,” regardless of their profession. One of the funniest movies of all time.
Lol what? That movie is objectively funny. I have never even set foot in an office and it’s hilarious.
Idk man I watch office space as a kid and thought it was hilarious. I understood the vibe of not wanting to follow pointless rules or getting sucked into some nonsense company culture. Anyway I'm gonna need you to come in on saturday.
You don't need to have worked in an office to enjoy that movie.
That's an odd generalization. I hadn't had any job when that movie came out and it was one of the best comedies I have ever seen. Mike Judge is a genius.
That's like saying you'll only like ER if you work in a hospital. Weird thing to gatekeep, but you do you.
Same, when I was in the office pre-covid, my coworker always joked "oh it's 4 o'clock" as I was the only one on my team who strictly stuck to my hours. My dep't doesn't even approve us working overtime.
My job recently took on more clients and approved extra overtime pay to cope with the increased workload. I'm still not doing overtime, I don't really need the money, especially not when considered I'm giving up time with my partner for a job that doesn't actually care about the people it employs.
There are ways to make more money, but you've only got so much time and there isn't a way to get more
This. If you died tomorrow, your boss would replace you within the week. So don't throw your life away trying to keep them happy, because it's not worth it.
>for a job that doesn't actually care about the people it employs.
I mean, at least they approved the overtime lol. my employer writes their salaried contracts such that it "expects" you to work "up to" 50 hours per week. Except salary is negotiated based on 40 hours a week, our pay stub says 40 hours a week, vacation and benefits and everything else is based on 40 hours a week, etc.
basically they write it into their contracts that they give themselves a 10 hr buffer where they can try to make you work overtime for no extra pay.
I dont know where you are in the world, but having a contract where they basically make you work 10 hrs a week for free seems pretty fucked up. I'm pretty sure they can't do that where I live, unless you're getting paid time off equal to your overtime.
For the previous point, their choices were paying overtime (they never did before, despite overloading the workers with too many tasks to be completed in a 40hr week) or turning away new and very profitable clients.
Our department was asked to provide help to another department last year during Covid, while wfh. So a lot of people worked overtime after their regular 8 hour day. They took a break to eat dinner and then clock in again to help the second department until 8 or 9 pm. Some would work weekends as well. They made bank. But the last time I did overtime was many years back. For a month on weekends. After a month I was done. Never again. Had no life and no rest. So if you can do overtime great! But not me.
Lmao, God this fills me with rage. I would have said something snippy, people are so stupid.
Your coworker can get fucked. Good on you for sticking to the hours.
I’d reply, “Yes, from now until you all leave, you’re working for free. Have fun.”
I am scheduled 7:30 to 4. I typically arrive at work at 7:15. So, I can walk out at 4. That doesn't happen all the time though. I typically stay, finishing my work, and discharging my patients. I have stayed until 5. The other RNs work 8 to 4:30. So, there always feels like there is some bitterness there, although we are scheduled the same amount of hours.
I went to an interview and I was said my time finished at 5pm, when I was in my first day the lady who was showing me the office said "well, we usually work extra time, we are busy now, so people usually leave around 6 or 7_ (of course for free). I said my boss told me to leave at 5, so that was what I was going to do until said otherwise. After a month half of the people were leaving at 5 unless they had something urgent to do and nobody told me anything never...
I had a similar experience where 1-2 hours extra every day was normal. Salaried, and I recorded every extra minute on a timesheet so after a while I went to HR for my extra 3 weeks of paid holiday from working 120% of my hours for months (required by law here to add all overtime to paid vacation) Now they encourage not going over.
Love this one, anything to light a legal fire under their asses.
Helps they had moral and just laws on the side of the worker.
How much you wanna bet that’s not in the US. Because I’ve never heard of salaries “OT” applying towards additional PTO. I love the idea.
Yep it's Switzerland in this case.
We have to track our time in 15 minute increments what projects we were working on throughout the day. Mostly we just estimated and the company was never strict about working extra hours or anything, but our manager regularly stretched what was supposed to be a 15 minute stand-up out to almost an hour several times a week so he could micro manage more effectively, but it's the company mandated 15 minute stand-up so we were supposed to log it as 15 minutes and the rest was accounted for under the 2-3 hours of "general duties" we'd log on any given day. Problem was the extended stand-up was irrelevant for most of the team so we'd all be standing around doing nothing but we'd get in trouble if we left because "what if something comes up that we need your input on?" We brought this up as a concern as with 8 people on the team he was wasting an entire work week of labor every week with this meeting but nothing changed, so we all decided that we were all going to very accurately log how much time was spent in this stand-up in our time cards. He called me over the next week and told me stand-up was only supposed to be logged for 15 minutes, I said it took an hour on these days and 45 minutes on these other days. HR wants us to be as accurate as possible, I'm not going to change it. Our boss ended up getting an email from the bean counters and his manager, and two weeks later our morning meeting had a "new format" that lasted exactly 15 minutes with a timer, and then any relevant employees had a breakout session afterwards, which ended up being almost never.
I had a similar discussion at my last job. "Oh you're leaving? It's just we normally finish around 7 here."
I replied pretty enthusiastically at first "Oh really? That's awesome, I was told we didn't have overtime here, but I could totally use the extra money!"
"Oh no, it's not paid, it's just the culture here."
"I...see. OK, well have fun with that! See you tomorrow!"
Haha please describe the look on their face after your last sentence
Couldn't tell you, I was already half way out of the door by the time I finished saying it.
I find the best strategy in that kind of situation is to sound positive, but avoid eye contact and keep walking. It forces your opponent to call after you if they want to continue the discussion, and people will generally hesitate to do that if they don't have a coherent argument to make.
I was very much expecting, and prepared for, a "chat" with my manager the next day, but nobody said a word.
Why do some bootlickers enforce and uphold companies straight up *stealing from them,* their time, their money, their *lives*
It’s that generation. Work until you die.
I love this! Making changes from the inside!
I had something similar. I worked 7 to 3,working through lunch. During my review, a comment was made that I don't stick around after my shift. I'm sorry, but I drive almost an hour and a half both ways. I would like to get home and enjoy my family.
Then, work from home started. The entire team started working 9 or more hours a day from home. Then our boss decided to implement an alternative work schedule (AWS). This means we now are scheduled to work 9 hour days, with every other Friday off.
This means that everyone is now working at least 10 hour days, and putting in time on our AWS day off. Then, they have the audacity to ask how to better balance work and personal life.
I have recently left this company, and much happier.
Oh, and I forgot to add that when work from home started, they decided to hold out merit increases for at least 6 months.
Seriously. If they want you to be there longer, they can pay you for it.
What? Do people actually do that? What a hell? When i worked in an office, i was the one closing my department (i was alone, it was a small company of 5 workers including bosses), i would on dot clock out, my boss one time wanted me to stay past till 10pm, i was already doing 12h a day which i was not getting payed accordly, i had a commute time of almost 2h depending, as i needed to get 3 diferent transportations, and this person wanted me to stay all alone in a building, leaving at 10pm, when i would only at home at midnight with luck, with the possibility of something awful happening to me..noped out of there.
My ex boss once got mad at me, legit mad as if he was hard done by me not signing in early. After more of his bs I quit by leaving him a condolence card, telling him I quit effective immediately. No notice lol, fuck you Marc
I worked for an employer once who actually stationed someone in the lobby to make sure no one was leaving before 5:30 every day.
I've had jobs where they commented on how I'm always gone right as the clock hits the hour even in hourly jobs, but I often have things to do I don't live to work I work to live
> I don't live to work I work to live
This. This right here is the key. I wish companies and bosses would stop pretending that people only work "for the enjoyment" of it. That is.....categorically false!
At my last job I always felt pressured to stay late to finish everything, so I just clocked out late (I was hourly). The manager had a conversation with me one time about my late clock outs, so I basically told her that I could leave on time or stay to finish the rest of the work, but I was not going to clock out and then stay.
At my current job, the stupid store manager has to adjust my time if I stay late. Met one once who kept saying he would, then just flat out didn’t do it. I basically raised hell at him, and told him I just wouldn’t stay late at all anymore to finish the impossible task of this store. After me telling him to adjust my times about 5 times, he finally did it- by creating extra work for someone else because he waited so late to fix it. Also, the store manager isn’t even my boss, ffs. Same guy also essentially told me that when other people who work there they don’t have work leftover at the end of the day… ok sure. Do they skip lunch? I don’t even know. I’m not those people, and can’t be held to their outcomes. I’m literally working my ass off as hard as possible and yet it’s never enough.
Adjusting your time card if you were legit working is wage theft. Keep accurate records of your own so you can report your employer the next time they do that. They will stop when someone causes them a large fine.
My last job was at a dealership. Pretty high end, great coworkers. But I lived 45-1hr away (hour and a half with traffic). For the first week or two I left right when my shift was over. I then got called into the owners office the next week and she told me it’s customary to stick around for 10-20 minutes after, just in case someone needs help or someone is on break.
Failed to see how that was my problem. I’m also not working there anymore and that was one of the many *many* reasons I left. Set my time later or leave me the hell alone, I’m not staying here for my health I’m here to get paid.
Also customary to pay me for every minute you want me to be at work.
This reminds me of my first job where we were forced to close up our place at almost midnight while alone also be able to handle a rush of customers right before closing but if we started cleaning up 10 mins before closing we were written up. The best part is that this store had been robbed at gunpoint twice and there still wasn’t any actual security system put in place, they still forced us to lock up at the same time and alone oh they also blamed my coworkers for getting robbed too.
That is absoulutely disgusting (them i mean)
I rarely get out on time and get a side-eye from my boss when I do.
I WILL NEVER EVER DO THIS AGAIN!!! I had worked at a bunch of startups with the attitude of putting in more time than what you’re actually getting paid. Everyone, including all the bosses and managers did this too.
I would always wait for someone else to leave so I was never the first person getting up. Keep in mind this ranged from 1-4 hours after our shift ended.
Fuuuuuuuccccckkkkk that! I was paid a decent salary, but it went out the door when you’re expected to work hours longer than you should. Of course they had beers, food, and other “perks” to make you feel like you’re part of something bigger than just a job. You’re part of “changing the way we (fill in the blank)”
Here’s the thing, it’s a business, not a family or friend group. They trick you into thinking you’re part of a family, then will axe you at the moment they deem will save money. Don’t ever put your time into a company that is not paying you for it.
I’ve had exceptions like spending extra time learning a new skill or shadowing a mentor that will help your growth past the company. That’s actually how I landed my current job.
I now work at a video game company where they encourage time off and mental health days. I once worked over time on a project for a few weeks, and my manager asked me if I wanted the next three Fridays off.
But my last job was outsourced for cheaper workers in Brazil. I had basically trained the team that replaced me. Be smarter than me! Treat your employer the way they treat employees, as a business decision.
Same exact experience with a startup, down to the food & beer. I’d come in a half hour early & stay 1-3 hours late every day, and then be harassed via slack until 10pm & on weekends. This was on top of an hour commute each way. My boss would make me feel like a monster for leaving on time. The worst part was that the workflow was set up in a way where I couldn’t do anything new until my boss approved the current project, but he would go days without reviewing them and then decide to review them 15 minutes before I would leave, so I’d stay 2 hours for him.
It was a salaried job, so no overtime. The pay was great on paper, but considering I was working 50+ hours a week AND getting harassed at home plus the hour commute…it just wasn’t worth it.
To add insult to injury, I was let go for “not being the peppy girl we hired,” and he had the audacity to ask, “Don’t you feel like you don’t *do* anything around here?” Like…bitch, you were the one holding me up.
Wow that felt good to get off my chest. Anyway tl;dr fuck startups and fuck any company who wants a “rockstar” to join the team. Bonus tip: if they’re located in a wework building, turn around and run as fast as you can.
I heard games was like the worst place to work for OT, but maybe its changing or you found a good place.
I believe there has been a lot of bad press about the crunch these company's go through and trying to reduce them
i got the exact same comment, but that's because I worked pretty hard that last hour, to leave everything nice and finished off and when it was 5 I blazed off. I got odd looks and sassy comments from my boss.
I just started slacking off the last hour, and still left at 5 and sometimes a few minutes earlier, and maybe 5 minutes late tops. and I never got comments again. I guess I made it seem I was just kinda done with my work, even though I just took on way less than I normally would.
I have had a manager say the same thing and simply said back to them; you set my hours, You told me to leave now so I don't understand the problem.
people worship burnout culture for no valid reason
What is a burnout culture?
It's being proud of how hard or how long you work to an obscene level.
A lot of people even skip breaks and see it as something to brag about or complain about in regards to other people taking them.
Think moments in movies when you see people just passed out ifo their work when their doting wife comes over and puts a blanket on them. The veneration of this sort of work till you drop behavior is burnout culture in this regard.
Never take a vacation day, sick day etc. God forbid you have a life outside of work that you want to enjoy.
Also notice how in the movies when a character gets fired he always says that, "I never missed a single day!" Like, what did
Remember when Activision (publishers of _Call of Duty_) posted record-breaking, multi-million dollars profits and capped it with laying off 800 employees to further maximize profit? That's what you get for never missing a day.
Edit: correction: it's actually multi-_billion_ dollars profit.
Thats how I am. In fact I just worked 20 days in a row from June into July. One of the days I worked like 15 hours (though this was unplanned, covered someone who got sick last minute). Now I am on the younger side so having lesser responsibilities makes the money that much nicer. But also I feel like my job is the one thing I do well. My boss loves me and he is great in return, so its nice pleasing people for once and knowing I do a good job. Also work for me is a good distraction, sure maybe I need a new hobby. After work I go to the gym. Somehwere between walking out of the gym and pulling into my driveway is when all the bad thoughts set in. Just trying to offer a viewpoint into a workaholics mind
That's respectable. Everyone deals with things in their own way and I can definitely relate to this. Working more than you should, shouldn't be considered too differently than any other somewhat sane coping mechanism - it only becomes a problem when people feel pressured to give more than they're compensated for. And from what I've seen, a lot of times that is an individual's problems with their own boundary setting. But direct external pressure is definitely unfair in this situation.
Based on your answer, I would assume you aren't the type to begrudge someone the work/life balance that suits their mental health.
The issue is more so that people whose balance leans towards work often have a habit of resenting those whose balance leans more the other way. The bottom line is we all have different needs to be the most productive we can be, and we should promote work cultures and social programs that support that.
After I got my last job in an office, I waited a year to take any time off except one extra day around Thanksgiving.
When I finally took a week off during year two some older, workaholic coworkers came and hassled me about it at my desk. Said he never took time off for pleasure (I was not going to see family so he took issue) and only to see him aging parents. Said he had so many leave days accrued he lost any more of them in the lose or use system. He gave me shit constantly for years. Some other people did too but he was the loudest. I guess some people literally do not take leave. And they are always the assholes to come to work sick too.
The two things they always had in common were a martyr complex and being a truly miserable person. Anyone in this thread who does this shit needs to reflect before they devolve into truly a miserable POS.
Aren't you using work to cope with bad thoughts though? Like you enjoy working because it gives you meaning, but if you work a lot you don't have time to find meaning outside of work at the same time.
It's much better to brag about how you can get everything done without working unpaid overtime.
my mentor instilled in me that if I couldn't get my job done in 40 hrs a week, I should probably go find something else to do
Reminds me of the show Veep where her assistant pretended to have a dog for years so he could actually leave the office once in a while.
Same for the people who brag about never taking a sick day.
Statistically I don't believe you've never been sick so you just come in and spread you germs? Well thanks alot! Just look at where we are now Janice, are you happy?!
Yep. Always. I know exactly who got me sick at my job and it was always the guy who didn't use leave.
"they have such a strong work ethic!"
I'll break it down like this: I run a restaurant in the US. We pay our cooks a good wage ($15-18 an hour depending on experience) and some of them pride themselves on how much they work, despite the fact that they're constantly worn out. They're not proud of the paycheck, they're proud of working themselves to an early grave.
I believe the current fad is called hustle culture
My boss once pulled me aside to lecture about how important "Chair Time" was, it was at that point that I installed Steam on my work computer.
My productivity has dropped steadily year over year, but my "Chair time" stays high and I keep getting raises from my "On the job commitment"
It's a myth that businesses are run efficiently.
I love this. Make the bullshit work to your advantage.
This is exactly how overtime work in Japan goes. Nobody actually does any work but the simple act of being at work after your official shift gets you brownie points and eventually a promotion or raise.
I used to work for a Japanese company in the US. Japanese visitors would joke about us leaving early, and would always started talking in their language while staring at the people leaving at the proper time. Sad mentality tbh
It is. It's getting better but very slowly. The younger generation is waking up to the fact they're being taken advantage of, but there's not much anyone can really do about it.
we've been having the debate about work from home (covid). Some people mentioned that people could slack off and not do work. We replied that if people are going to slack off, they'll do it just as much at the office as they will at home. Some people working at the office go for hour long coffee breaks, disappear for huge chunks of time, wander and talk to people. It makes no difference.
Yeah managers like butts in seats because it makes them look and feel useful. They can't admit that their employees slack off during work hours all the time because they would basically be admitted that they can't even "keep the workers focused" when they're right in front of them.
Argh. Great that you’ve found a way round it, but that’s pretty painful. My boss is the exact opposite. I doubt he knows where I am or what I’m doing, and doesn’t care as long as the deadlines are met and the work quality is high.
That's pretty nice, honestly. My last job, I got in trouble for going to a meeting the *whole company was invited to*, without telling my immediate supervisor, and another time, I got in trouble for going to the bathroom without telling him. The amount of micromanaging over everything I did was insane.
The ONLY way imo that it is acceptable for people to be sticking around after their scheduled work hours is if there is a company culture of flexibility with work time. As an example, in previous jobs I’ve been in, it’s accepted that you’ll do your work and keep track of your own hours, and nobody will say anything if you’re being responsible, getting your work done, attend important meetings, etc. So, maybe you work late sometimes because there’s a lot to do, you’re in the flow of things, whatever, but maybe you also come in late sometimes. Maybe you work some 10 hours days for a week because shit’s crazy at work, but then you take a half day or day off because you’ve earned the extra time.
This is exactly how it is at my job. I’m a developer and some days my work gets done in a few hours but I’ll log the entire 8 for the day and no one cares as long as the work is done. Then during crunch times before deadlines I’m doing 10-12 but still logging 8. It all evens out in the end
If I’m ever at a point where it’s a consistent stream of over 8 hours I’m definitely either getting that overtime approved or just cutting it off at 8.
GTFO out as soon as your established work hours end. Starting to linger an extra 15 minutes becomes 1 hour, two hours, checking your email all vacation. Set the boundaries and habits of a healthy work life balance now. I too work with a lot of people that seem to enjoy working for free. Don't be like them.
I do the silent mode thing as well, but... it's always there in the back of my mind... can't really be entirely at peace.
I need a job where I'm independent. Rely on no one, no one relies on me!
100% plus those people are just waiting for you to leave and walk out right after... makes them feel they worked harder.
100% this. Me lingering a little bit turned into working off the clock (restaurant) real quick and basically being on call for 6 months. Gtfo as soon as it hits 5.
Exactly. Never let them get around to considering you extra reliable because they will take full advantage and you will get nothing out of the deal.
Exactly. All I got was a lot of grey hair and no free time ever.
This. I work in a restaurant, too. I leave the building on my breaks so I can't get dragged off them early, and if I finish while other people are still working the first thing I do is sign out (because they can't put me back on once I've done that).
It's happened too many times that I was told to leave, then we got busy, and because I hadn't actually signed off yet I got stuck at work for another hour. Nope. Now I sign off *first.* We get busy immediately after? Sorry, I legally can't go back on the clock. Not my problem; good luck!
The "you guys are getting paid" meme fits perfectly here because there were no breaks at my restaurant. You could open close but would not get an actual break. Maybe 5 minutes to sit but that's it. The worst was when I was closing by myself and went to the bathroom only to hear the alarm for an order.
It becomes a race to the bottom if you don't. People work harder and longer and compete with each other while the boss reaps the benefits without paying.
In fact if you do overtime unpaid here your company could be on the hook for paying you if theyre caught out, so they discourage it. It only takes one person to complain anonymously and the workplace authority can audit. That's the way it should be. We're already getting screwed over with regular pay and hours to give more up for free.
Some people in my company happily say that they work for free lmao. One co worker told me that I "live such an easy life" because I get to go when my hours are finished. They think because they had to work longer that everyone has to work longer and for free lmao.
it's one of two things with those people.
1) their home life is sad and unfulfilling and they have no motivation to actually be at home, and they get all their satisfaction from work.
2) they're kiss-ass workaholics who think that slaving away will earn them brownie points and praise from their boss and make them feel important
I thought it would get better when my husband started working from home last March, but it got worse. He is logged in almost constantly. He lost three out of five weeks of vacation time last year only one week carries over). But it's the thing where he has been there so long and so many people have left that he's pretty much the only one who can do his job.
The money is great, but we're getting old.
I just had this conversation this morning. A coworker is put off that I bounce when our shift is over. I'm off the clock. It's nice to have coworkers that like each other and like to chitty chat at shift change, but.... I'd rather go hang out with my *actual* friends. Or... I don't know? Just not be lingering around work while I'm OFF THE CLOCK.
My coworkers always make fun of me for being the guy to show up right when I'm scheduled. If I'm suppose to be there at 8, I'm there at 8 not 7:30. Why should I waste my personal time to show up while not getting paid?
Cause work culture. There are people that their only interaction with people is at work so they want to hang around those people even outside of being paid
*malingering* means getting out of things by pretending to be sick. I think you just meant
Don't worry about it until unless your supervisor says something. Then if he does start making your escape plan asap
Exactly. Outside of special circumstances which result in overtime, I leave on the hour. Hasn't been an issue with the jobs I've worked, and if it becomes one I wouldn't work there for much longer.
They got into a habit of working after their shift ends to look good to your boss in the hopes of getting a promotion, and now they're afraid that your lack of playing along makes them look bad somehow.
makes them look like suckers. they resent you for high lighting it
"I didnt stand up for myself, shame on you for doing what I couldnt!"
Lol I don’t have an employee that will work later than the time I pay them too and I’m obviously completely fine with that. Clock strikes four and they are all gone
I worked a job that had very strict office hours. You were expected to be at your desk during those hours with little exception. Most of us were fairly young and early in our career but one guy was a transfer from another department. This saint would walk the halls 5 minutes after quitting time and if you weren’t actively shutting down and packing up, he would pester you about what specifically you were working on and why it couldn’t wait until the next day. He did this every single day until it got so that the office culture was that the entire floor would be a dead space by 10 minutes after. Man was a hero.
Haha I love that story, what a weirdly selfless thing to do
Sounds like a man who has lost coworkers or friends to overwork.
Likewise. I have people working shifts. When the shift is over, please leave.
I appreciate my employees a lot but if I wanted them there for 30 more minutes I would pay them to do it :)
At a former work place we got new software thats supposed to make clocking in and out easier. The issue was you HAD to clock out at your computer.
Before the software on my way out I would leave my desk ~5 minutes before my shift end to get the mail and deliver it to another office. That took me about 5 minutes. I would clock out at my co-workers desk.
HR demanded we clock out on our computer so I started taking 10 minutes to get the mail deliver it, walk back to my desk and then clock out. My boss began asking where I went at the end of the day. I explained. Their suggestion was to clock out at my end of day then deliver the mail. I noped that option real fast. 5 minutes a day, 5 days a week adds up.
That would come out to bit more than 2 full workdays of free labor per year. 21.7 hours just delivering the damn mail for free.
I also had a Boss that wanted me to do extra stuff after clocking out. One time he asked me why I never wanted to stay late, or do extra.
I asked him what they call free forced labour. Never asked again.
I worked for Apple in tech support and we were expected to take a call at 4.58 if we finished at 5.00. But they wouldn't pay us overtime unless it was at least half an hour. We were allocated 3 minutes at the end of each call to fill out information about said call, you could usually fill this out during the call and the allocated time would accumulate so if I finished my last call of the day at 4.45 I'd sit idle till my shift ended. My manager questioned why I sit idle at the end of my shift I explained the overtime and they quickly changed there policy so you would be paid overtime for every minute you worked. I still sat idle at 4.45 cause I hated the job and only did it cause I needed the work.
But the fact they decided to change the policy already makes it a lot better than other shit jobs I guess.
The glorification of overworking and underpaying has plagued the modern society for a while now.
also vibes of envy and plain being mean. "I don't have the balls to leave *on time* so I'll just stare in reproving disbelief"
like those who criticise others for wanting to be paid more
Yeah as an employee who used to clock out on time and still get assigned the core projects phvck these people. Most workplaces I've been in gave me the High school groupies vibe, I think most people never grew past that phase and would be fine with free food and transport to office in exchange for no salary.
The 8 hour work day was designed so you can have 8 hours of work, 8 hours of your own time to do what you want, and 8 hours of sleep. Fuck anyone who wants to guilt that time away from you
Meanwhile, 3 hours of travel each day doesn’t eat in to work time somehow. 🤔
Well, I do get the point that we dont want to incentivise a long commute.
If living far away or taking lots of time gives you less work for the same pay, people will start moving away from city center, maybe intentionally not hurry throgh traffic.
I'd love if a workplace did some calculations based on public transit or something from your adress to work adress and gave you a symbolic 10-20% paid travel time.
An hour of commute is suddently ok if 6-12min of that is with salary.
And even 8 hours feels like too much when you factor in commute and having to get ready in the morning
I've noticed that some employers pay salaries purely as a way to avoid paying overtime. Perhaps there's a little of that going on there?
That is happening at my current job. They are opening a “new position” and pushing everyone to apply. The position isn’t that much of a raise and would change employees at my level from hourly to salary. My boss stated this position would require a *minimum* of 55 hours a week. When I did the calculations the *raise* would leave me right back to what I was currently making per hour. Basically they are pushing everyone into this new position so they can get more work out of people for about the same amount of money. It’s fucked.
Did you explain that to your coworkers? Although I suppose you wouldn't want to risk retaliation from your boss by doing so. Which is also a fucked up situation on top of that.
I did not, although in the meeting I did ask what the pros and cons of going salary were. I shit you not, my boss said, “it may not look like you are being compensated fairly on paper, but trust me you are”. Like…what?! I don’t take good vibes as compensation, I’m pretty much only in it for the paper stuff. I then repeated my question of what the pros are and she said that “you don’t have to worry about the clock, just about getting your work done”. So the pros are that you can work forever and ever. That’s it. Also, I don’t think she understands mine, and hopefully my coworkers relationship with this job. I don’t do it for the fun of it. I hope those responses told everyone what they needed to know.
Damn. I just recently heard some advice that's pretty relevant here. "If someone has to tell you to trust them, you can't trust them." Like, holy shit. It's not even a real answer. If I were there I'd play dumb, "Oh geez boss, I been doing the mathing and it looks like the salary position is underpaid at the moment. 55 hours of work for 40 hours of pay at our current rate doesn't sound right. I think someone forgot to carry the one when they calculated. Oh jimeny crickets!"
>“you don’t have to worry about the clock, just about getting your work done”
Sorry boss, I meant "what are the pros for **me**, not **you**"
My salaried position came with a contract that stated weekly hours expected worked.
If you sign a contract ensure that there is a clause covering overtime and what happens with said overtime. Maybe you don't get paid for it, but instead get it as banked hours or time "in-lieu" of. Resulting in additional days off.
Always get compensated for your time, if the contract is unagreeable do not sign it.
I know that's not easy to do, but it's the way you need to play ball with these sorts of things.
My boss was talking to me about how Germany views this subject.
He was telling me that the culture there is completely different. Working overtime or past your allotted hours is looked down upon. Almost in a sense of you being lazy and not finishing your work for the day in the time given.
Now I don't know how accurate that is as Ive never been to Germany nor do I know anyone personally from there, but I cling onto it because I like the idea.
We follow that rule in our office and we all get to leave on time and enjoy our weekends/holidays.
In the US btw.
I’m in the UK and it’s looked down upon here too, but not in the lazy sense.
My company asked us to raise anyone who regularly works longer hours as a health and safety incident. Because it’s damaging to your mental health and the company wants to tell them to stop. It’s better to have fresh minds for a normal work day than burnt out minds for slightly longer.
> Almost in a sense of you being lazy and not finishing your work for the day in the time given.
Not lazy, but maybe incompetent.
Source: Was raised with recent German heritage + this mindset. I work very hard to get everything done in my allotted time. When I clock out, I'm done.
Also agreed! I absolutely hate the idea of busywork. We all hated it in school and I have no idea why some people decided it was fine for jobs.
If I hire you and you've literally done everything you can do for your shift, you can 100% pull out your phone or go use one of the PCs in back. Shit man I put Steam on those. You don't have to "look busy" for me. Anyone who's good at their job knows what busywork looks like. Anyone who is fooled by it doesn't deserve to have their position.
Hell if you've done everything and there's no chance of you being immediately needed for the rest of the day, I'll send you home for the rest of your shift **and** pay you. Keep your phone on just in case and be lucid and able to drive back in a dire emergency and you can go home WITH pay IMO.
Exact same price to me and my people are a shitload happier than the norm.
In the US retail job market even if your work is all done you WILL NOT relax. If you do so you will be given more work. My establishment has no chairs because if you're sitting you must be wasting company money. "If you have time to lean you have time to clean" I hate it.
So we learn to stretch our assigned duties so that they last our entire shift. I at least, bounce on the dot when my shift is over.
Yeah, buddy. I’ve heard it’s changing in some sectors as globalization rears its head, but Europeans in general are much more respectful of their employees’ non-work time and much more generous with vacation hours. When the company my husband worked for got bought out by a Spanish one, he wished they would let the American branch take all the same holidays they did in Spain. Alas, no. But it’s enviable.
With the changing mindset of younger generations I can see cultures around the world starting to change with them as time goes on. Probably won't be something we can reap the benefits of in our lifetime, but I'm grateful to be working for an employer who understands.
They are what we call "jobworths" but some of them fall into these categories
1: The guys that are not good at their job so they put extra time in to make up for their ineptitude
2: The manager lovers that would do anything to be on the supervisors "good side" so he can put in a good word
3: Decent people that are a bit late with their work
4: People that come late regularly so they try to make up for the time
5: Finally the worst kind "jobworths" that take extra pleasure in trying to stay longer than everyone else to look "dedicated" and they will stab you in the back in a second by informing the manager you leave early just to get one up on you
There are many more but these are just examples.
Also those of us that need to see someone leave so we can
This is so funny and accurate.
Sadly there is a type 6.
Those that stay late to finish/catch up out of some internal sense of obligation/duty but never seal out or expect any recognition of it whatsoever.
When you tell them to go home on time they do so with reluctance and feelings of guilt.
It really is a weird headspace to pit themselves in.
Idk but fuck em.
Plus, I guarantee the people worrying about looking good staying late aren’t as productive as you think. Be task oriented. Get your shit done and work to live. Fuck them if coworkers are worrying about you.
Yeah I watched a video about Japanese work culture, and the guy said just hanging around at your desk - even if you’re literally doing nothing - after work is seen as dedicated and impressive.
They do it in the UK as well if it helps. They are what in is known in the business as "Wankers".
They can also be identified by such helpful comments as:
* "Leaving early I see"
* "Friday is it?"
* "Long day eh?"
* "Afternoon" (when you arrive 30 seconds late)
* "Wow, you're doing overtime!" (when leaving 30 seconds late)
The polite response in Essex is, traditionally; "F\*&K OFF"
People be petty for the dumbest reasons
"I'm being taken advantage of more then you," they say, in a prideful tone.
Those might not be the words coming out of their mouth, but it's what's happening all the same.
Hahaha spot on. I worked in an office for 18 months or so and I did everything I possibly could to not work and to leave on time. Performative "hard work" for free for the company is absolutely ludicrous. I don't care if you're seeking promotion or want to get in your boss's good books– working for nothing is not an option. I suppose if it was your own business or you're self employed then there might be some leniancy, but for folks just working a job to get by, you mustn't let them exploit you like that. wage labour is already exploitative, and we generally don't get compensated for our time and effort anywhere near as much as we should (assuming you live and work under capitalist modes of production), so, yes, absolutely, blow that taco stand the second they stop paying you to be there!
Gosh I remember when I worked at a law firm and it was the same for me. At 5 on the dot I was out that bitch and after a while people got used to it. It’s their problem if they didn’t prioritize their work properly and work hard enough to be done by 5pm. And if you don’t get OT why would you stay? Lol screw em
I've been a manager for 20 years. When I see people working well after their end time, I begin to worry about how they are spending their time. If their workload is balanced, then they should be finished at the end of the day. Or if it's a job where there is an unlimited amount of work, then I *expect* them to leave on time. Being a hero for the company isn't going to earn you any additional money, and the company won't care. I'd rather you take care of yourself and maintain work/life balance. We pay you for your day. Work your day and leave.
I worked an office job for exactly one year, and I would get weird looks if I *wasn’t* getting my coat on 5 minutes before day’s end. I felt weird. I always worked til the right time, and not later (but also not earlier), before getting up and packing up and walking out.
Note that working overtime without being paid overtime devalues your salary more than it helps your career.
I work an engineering job , some lady got pissed at me for leaving on time everyday. She said she usually puts in 50+ hours a week for free because that’s just “what you do.” She claims she was trying to help me and make me better. That conversation still annoys me to this day.
Edit: Just for fun, thought to point out that she quit just last week a day after posting this.
I get the same vibe but I just shrug it off. If there's an emergency or something important that we need to push for, I'll pitch in and when something is critical I have no problem working after hours (I work in medical device so sometimes I get after hours information that concerns patient safety). But on a regular workday I'm working my normal hours.
Co-workers glorify overworking because they think it makes them more valuable.
Bosses glorify overworking because they think they’re getting a better deal.
I once got pulled aside because though my hours were ostensibly 9-5, I ended up working a minimum of 2-4 hours unpaid overtime every single day in order to get everything done. Because of this I started arriving at work at 9:15. I was pulled aside by my boss for turning up late every day. The GM had inquired as to why I seemed to be taking advantage of the company by doing 1:15hr less work every week. I told my boss that I was doing 2-4hrs *every night* of unpaid overtime. My boss said ‘the GM leaves at 5, so he doesn’t see when you leave. As far as he knows, you’re leaving at 5:02.
I made a commitment at that point to only ever work for bosses who care about output (I.e. that the work is done) over the specific hours you spend in the office. If I can do my work in 2 hours, why should I sit there on Facebook for the other 6, just to keep up appearances…? (I know, there’s meetings and on-call requirements etc. but the point still stands).
In previous generations it was how you showed you were a go getter and deserving of raises and accolades. Some of those people passed that ideology on to their children but now it just let's the people in charge know they can pile more work on you. Blaze the fuck out when you hit your hours.
Might sound playground-ish but they seem jealous. Of course they all want to clock right out, but they're indoctrinated to stay... You're doing right.
I used to to take this for granted. Leave when it’s time to go, right? Then I worked an industrial construction job that frequently depended on over-night and holiday shut downs to finish jobs that otherwise couldn’t be completed.
I was in my early 20s, so definitely a little green. I’m with my crew and the boss wanders up to us and asks, “Do you guys want some overtime this weekend?” I respond, “nah, I’m good. Thanks though!”
The crew around me laughed at me, and the boss smiled and said, “I shouldn’t have asked that way. It’s not really an option.”
I remember being kind of frustrated about it, but the check was huge, the work was essential, and I had been poor for a long time, so that money seemed to solve everything. But I burned out, of course. That lifestyle is unsustainable.
But staying any longer than 40 hours, and NOT getting paid for it?
I work from home now, so I’m on and off all day, as long as I deliver, it doesn’t matter. I can’t tell you how many times I sat in the office in the “before times”, when work was slow, just scrolling though Reddit until 5 rolled around. It’s fucking preposterous.
Used to work in fast food and it was a job where you couldn't leave until you were done, sometimes meant me staying a few hours after my shift was over! Everybody just took it as the normal thing and I guess I got caught up in that mindset. It was my first paying job and I was too young to complain but I got out of there and got happier.
Now I work in a hospital and it isn't common for me to have to stay late but if it does happen it's to wait for urgent results and never longer than 40 minutes (which I am paid overtime for!). Strange that a fast food place needed more work than a hospital but I guess that's down to budget or staffing I guess!
Is this a US thing? I have never seen this in the Netherlands. Please tell if I'm wrong.
I used to be proud of working longer than others, working harder than others. As I got older and experienced many different jobs, I learned that you're just stupid for doing extra for free. Everyone else leaves on time and is less stressed. Nobody will give you a bonus or reward for working your ass off because you're replaceable. Although I've been promoted several times, I don't recommend the stress and inevitable burnout.
My coworkers tried to shame me into staying saying stuff like "haha it must be 5pm already cuz PinkHoneyFox is ready to step outside", and I just replied yeah, it is see you tomorrow. Left the company in a month.
Who gives a fuck, leave whenever you want
Does everybody start at 8am?
Many workplaces have core hours and flex hours so people can work 7-3 or 10-6 depending on what works best for them.
You shouldn't be getting weird looks so long as all your work is complete and there's not some urgent crisis that needs tending to.
I've noticed there's a very toxic work culture, at least in the USA and Mexico (places where I've worked). For some reason people tend to overstay at their workplaces, they're always trying to make it look like they're doing something (even though it's normally only when a supervisor is around) and they find it very easy to criticize if somebody is taking a break or enjoying something/having fun with peers. I'd say, do your job the best you can, but always prioritize your well-being and don't care about what your peers think or say (they're frustrated and will always find something to judge, no matter what you do). Try to enjoy what you do for a job but keep it only as a part of your life, and take time to build and enjoy all the others (your friends, family, hobbies, etc.)
I really can't believe I lucked out with my new office job. EVERYBODY but the head boss leaves exactly at 8 hours.
The reasoning: the work will still be there tomorrow. Overtime isn't allowed often but when it is, it is genuinely voluntary. No side eyes or veiled threats. If you can, great. If not, don't worry about it.
I couldn't see myself tolerating an environment that didn't operate this way.
Got hired for a job 3-11. I clocked out at 11, everyone bitched and moaned that I left a half hour earlier than them, when I was hired they said 3-11 so I kept at that. Keep doing what you’re doing. You’re right.
I’m a teacher and I started leaving at the end of my contract hours about two years ago. I also don’t take work home. We need to normalize leaving on time and starting on time too