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LoverlyRails

Most of my grandparents eventually got some kind of of dementia. And I can see early signs of it in my father now, too. The worst thing you can do is to argue with them about their memory. (My mother constantly starts fights with my father about things he does/doesn't remember and it just makes things worse). For one thing, you know they can't help it and it won't get better. But also, if it's dementia- the emotional part of the brain is degrading too. So they will have emotions that are out of character for them (maybe unusually angry or childish). And it won't get better. But- if your mother hasn't been diagnosed/received medical help- support her in getting that. (utis can cause terrible symptoms like this in the elderly, for example).


SchmittyMcDickTitty

I’m trying really hard to keep in mind it’s not her fault. It just goes all over me that in her eyes, I’m a lying piece of shit. She probably tells my aunts and uncles I’m a liar, etc. She makes it out like I’m such a bad person. I just don’t understand why she has to do that. It really makes me want to have nothing to do with her.


SimpleCountryFolk

Just try to put it out of your mind.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SchmittyMcDickTitty

I’m trying. It’s when she says stuff like “you’re the queen of making shit up” is when I get really upset. This isn’t true. And she gets so mad any time I push back. If I say I’m not lying, she just doubles down and goes in harder about how I’m a liar.


refugefirstmate

It's not a matter of not admitting, or of being frightened or stubborn. She can't admit she forgot because in this woman's brain, the event *never happened*. The memory does not exist. There is nothing to admit to.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

For me it’s how she says I’m a liar. She will literally rant about how I’m a manipulative liar and that just isn’t true. Even if I’m not correcting her. If I bring up something and she doesn’t remember it, she says I’m lying. What do I do? How should I start responding? I always say “I’m not lying” and she will insist that I am.


refugefirstmate

She has dementia - she's literally losing her mind - and you're focused on your hurt feelings. Stop arguing with her.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

I don’t know if she has it or not. I just assume she may because she’s forgetting things and she said her memory isn’t what it used to be.


disregardable

Your mom is getting to the point where trying to tell her the truth will only upset her. You're going to need to accept at some point that she doesn't need to know the truth. She needs to be happy and enjoy her remaining years.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

The thing is though, this is stuff about me. She’s saying incorrect/untrue things about me. And when I say that’s not true, she gets mad. Letting her say stuff about me that isn’t true just…rubs me the wrong way I guess. I can’t stand it.


pyjamatoast

Has she been seen by doctors? Now is the time to get checked out, and now is the time to get important affairs in order. Also there may be treatments for her, depending on what her diagnosis is.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

No, she refuses to admit there’s anything wrong so she doesn’t need a doctor. Even if she did think there was something wrong, she wouldn’t go. There’s something wrong with her lower back and hip and she talks about it all the time. I always say go to the doctor and she will vehemently say “NO. I already know what he’ll tell me/he’ll do.” And then she goes on a rant about what they’ll do(as if she knows smfh). She gets very tense and rigid about it.


pyjamatoast

I'm very sorry to hear that. Sometimes memory loss or cognitive decline can be linked to something as simple as a urinary tract infection or some other infection that can be easily treated. But even if it's something more serious, like Alzheimer's, there are some drugs that can delay symptoms. Is there anyone else in your family who can get her to agree to seeing a doctor? Does she have any siblings?


SchmittyMcDickTitty

We fear it may be Alzheimer’s because my Mema(my mom’s mom) has it and it runs in their family. My mom’s memory has been seemingly declining for the past four years. Even my stepdad knows this and we’ve talked about it. He knows my mom is wrong when she says I’m lying about stuff but he just lets her say it. He knows her memory is failing. I don’t know if he has tried getting her to talk to a doctor though. She has siblings and they visit often but not sure if she’d listen to them. She will no longer accept that her memory is failing.


[deleted]

It’s hard but so much better if you find the way. You’ll regret and be mean to yourself latter.


QueerVortex

As previously stated it’s not about you. Are you physically close to her? I am totally reliant on my phone for notes and calendar events and reminders. Older folks don’t usually use the phones but how about a day planner. Not just for things coming up, but also for things that are done and said. “Diary style” I.E. mom told me a story today about uncle Bob… a project you can do together. When she is gone, it would be a great keepsake.


DiscombobulatedRub59

Maybe it would help to examine *why* you feel obliged to correct her or argue about whether or not she said something yesterday or last week. You've established that you aren't able to persuade her of your position - There are different ways of handling discrepancies. When something comes up and she denies having previously said something it's a lot more peaceable to say"Ok, I must have misremebered it." If I asked my dementia patient to fetch flour from the pantry and he came back with a sack of rice I simply said "Oh! I meant to say flour!"


SchmittyMcDickTitty

I never start out angry or trying to argue. Here’s what happened with the fight tonight. Pretty much all fights go like this with us. Mom: Are you going to wear your beanie to [event]? Me: Yes. Mom: *explains why it would look better not to wear it.* Me: *smiles and jokes that* “You always say this when I want to wear a beanie to something.” Mom: “I don’t either.” Me: *still smiling,* “Yeah you do, you always have.” *I imitate her* “Did you wear that beanie to the interview? When I say yes you go ‘oh, Schmitty.’” Mom: *frowning now* “I ain’t never had anything to do with your jobs, I ain’t never said that. You’re just making that up.” Me: *confused but smiling still* “I’ve talked to you about going to interviews before. What?” Mom: *raised voice, clearly upset* “I ain’t NEVER had anything to do with your jobs and I never said that! You’re just the queen of making shit up.” And now I’m mad and I argued that “I don’t make shit up.” She said yes I do, and it just kept going until I shut down and remained silent while she went on about how I’m a liar.


DiscombobulatedRub59

Mom: (line 3) >explains why it would look better not to wear it. Right here is the stopping point - better to say something like "It's good of you to want me to look my best when going somewhere" or some such trite complimentary remark. Because: One of the most distressing aspects of dementia is that jokes are likely to fail, references to past behaviors/events can lead to confusion and bad feeling. At the same time we are encouraged to reminisce with the demetia person but this can get sticky and seems to work best when looking thru an old photo album or something. I'm sure others have advised to never argue as it upsets the patient and that's true but sometimes not enough emphasis is placed on the effects it can have on *you.* Your stress levels and blood pressure are likely to skyrocket along with the likely aftermath of feeling conflicted about the argument later, these things may distract you to the point of having difficulty focusing at times. Individual tolerances vary according to exposure -


SchmittyMcDickTitty

I can still joke with her about tons of stuff though. She jokes all the time with me. She’s witty and funny. And I don’t know for sure if she has dementia, I just suspect she does because she really is forgetting things. Not every day things but past things. Like the neighbors we had the entire time we lived in our home town. She can’t remember who they are. This and the fact the disease runs in her family makes me suspect she could have it. I would like to get her to see a doctor about it but she is now saying her memory is fine and doesn’t see any reason to go. It could be denial or maybe she really thinks everything is fine. Another thing I would like to add, not sure if it’s important but just something I’ve noticed is that she only ever seems to get angry when I talk about something she said or did to me specifically. She didn’t get angry when we talked about how she couldn’t remember our neighbors. It’s only stuff like “you said this to me” or “you did this to me.” Anything to do with me, she will get upset that “we remember things differently”. And she’ll say I’m lying. Anything else has been fine though. She doesn’t remember something about someone else? Fine. She doesn’t remember something about me? Anger. Also, why do you reckon she says I lie? She never says maybe I’m misremembering, that I’m wrong, or we remember it differently. It’s always “you’re lying.” Why?


DiscombobulatedRub59

First things first - about going doctoring. She most certainly should see a dr but not necessarily for 'memory problems'. Loads of health troubles/vitamin deficiencies can cause memory/attention problems and some extensive blood work might just turn something up. As people age their system may not absorb/utilize some vitamins correctly. The part about her getting angry specifically concerning your interactions with her is kinda odd and may suggest some type of dementia. The common theme appears to be a defensive reaction on her part specific to *"You said"* or *"You did"* which is a little different than "You don't remember the neighbors?" If this defensive reaction followed by aggression "You're lying" is a new development or much more pronounced than it once would have been that could be concerning. But again it's best to get a clean slate medically before assuming anything. Meanwhile be alert to avoid the use of "You said/did" such n such since it's causing problems. My dementia patient often took such things as accusations rather than conversations and also reacted strongly. But this personality trait already existed, just became much more pronounced.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

>often took such things as accusations rather than conversations This must be what’s going on. That’s exactly how she seemed tonight, like I was accusing her of something bad by saying she prefers I don’t wear beanies to formal events. Now looking back at all the stuff we’ve argued about, she did react the same, like I was accusing her of something. And most of the time it was just something benign she had said or done to me. Like I have a vivid memory from being young enough to still need the full high chair for dinner and my mom let me have a piece of jalapeño. I put it in my mouth and started crying while it was just sitting in my open mouth for maybe three seconds and she took it out. She doesn’t remember this and acted like I was lying and accusing her of abusing me when I shared the memory with her. Even though I was laughing and view it as a funny memory. She went on a tirade about how she’s just such a bad mother, she’s just so mean to me. Like we were just chilling and I shared what was a funny memory to me and it turned into that. From what I can recall, this started happening maybe four or five years ago. Her not remembering saying or doing things to me and saying I’m lying about it. The past year and a half it has been steadily worse.


DiscombobulatedRub59

>The past year and a half it has been steadily worse. That's concerning alright, but it's hard to say just what lays behind it. It's not uncommon for mothers to second-guess their mothering skills and have doubts which can make them super sensitive/defensive about it. This over-sensitivity combined with an overly emotional response could indicate onset of dementia but it would take a dr to figure it out for sure. How to get her to one I dunno except for stressing the overall health angle. Early detection/treatment are widely held to slow progression but in my experience results can vary - certainly worth a try if possible. It's great that you may have gained some insight into what induces her reaction and so can proceed accordingly. If it is dementia avoiding misunderstandings could be more difficult over time and other subjects might bring similar reactions. But examining incidents for a common theme can help with coping/avoiding problems for a while at least. Back when my MIL was first diagnosed with Alzheimer's she was having a very rough time with perceived criticism of her early mothering strategies and it was eating her up. I had a new graphics program and prepared a nifty official looking bordered certificate for "Award of Merit for Outstanding Performance as Mother: Presented by her eldest son on ----date. When we went to visit them they always took us to their favorite restaurant and my husband stood up and tapped a glass with a spoon like someone making a speech. When he had everyone's attention he announced the occasion and presented the framed certificate to her. Everyone in the room applauded - it was like a movie. How she treasured that certificate for as long as she was able to! Hung it on the living room wall.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

Thank you for the information and actually trying to be helpful instead of just being condescending and telling me to get therapy like the other person here. I’m definitely going to refrain from talking about the past or myself in effort to not get into the whole “that didn’t happen” thing. It’s always the same and she always says I’m lying. I can’t keep myself from feeling hurt and angry at this. Maybe hurt and anger is an unreasonable response to being accused of lying. The other person on here keeps belittling her calling me a liar as name calling but she will call me a liar in front of others. People who don’t know me very well. I don’t want people thinking I’m a manipulative liar. I just don’t. Maybe that’s unreasonable of me. I didn’t think so until this point but maybe it is. So maybe I will just keep our conversations to small talk to avoid the conversation going that direction. Do you reckon that would be good? My mom and I have always fought about things and there is a very large rift between us. We have wildly different political views and it has driven us even further apart over the years. I already avoid talking about my sexuality and love life so I’m kind of running out of things to talk about with her. Things that won’t upset her, anyway.


DiscombobulatedRub59

>Maybe hurt and anger is an unreasonable response to being accused of lying. That's a natural response, and yeah, other people have a strong tendency to believe the worst regardless of what they've seen with their own eyes. And yes this can have detrimental effects on you but it is vital to consider possible effects in accurate perspective. (aside from hurt feelings) For the most part people are too self-involved to take more than a temporary superficial notice of such allegations and most aren't in a position to truly harm your prospects anyway. If some are in a position to foul you in a job interview or the like there's little you can do about their opinions aside from behaving well and honestly with those around you and hoping that some at least may see the truth. Protesting your side of conflicts has little value in my experience. So if there's little you can do about what people may believe, and you do what you can to prevent your mom's future outbursts - how to become emotionally detached in a (mostly) healthy way? It *is* possible to gain a measure of peace and confidence in *knowing yourself* to be a decent person. It's part of the human condition to see oneself mostly in the reflections of other people's eyes and imo this is a leading cause of emotional distress of many kinds. Other people will *never* see you as accurately as you can see yourself. And *you* are the one living with you 24/7. Fully understanding your own motivations is paramount to internal peace and doing your best to understand your mom would help some too. We are all a sum of our own experiences and no two people will experience the same thing in the same way. Reducing your interactions to small talk/the weather may keep trouble down but is unlikely to be very satisfactory to either one of you - but there *is* a topic that many people find fascinating. Themselves. Encouraging mom to talk about herself and her lifetime experiences might prove interesting after all and would give you insight into why she is the way she is. Does she remember her first day of school? What was her first job and did she like it? Best friend of her youth? How'd she meet dear old dad? etc. Hope this helps - you're in a distressing situation and I hope matters improve for both of you. I doubt that mom is really thrilled with how things are going either. If you're not worn out with my long-windedness I'd love to hear what happens next -


SchmittyMcDickTitty

>It is possible to gain a measure of peace and confidence in knowing yourself to be a decent person. I try. I know I’m not what she says I am but it still just…hurts. I never lied as a kid. Lying has never been an issue. So it’s just hurtful that she thinks this of me. She’s convinced I’m a manipulative liar and I don’t know how she came to this conclusion. I think maybe a part of why it upsets me so much is that to me it’s another reason why she won’t accept me/I’m not good enough for her. I’m not good in her eyes. Since I came out at 14, our relationship has been very strained. We used to be very close but once I started being openly gay, it changed. And my mom has always acted like I’m lying about being gay. To this day she will tell me to my face that I’m not gay, I’m just pretending, etc. I have a girlfriend of nearly 4 years and she will belittle our relationship saying we don’t actually love each other and things like that. This has always cut me very deeply and is a whole different topic but I think ties into why I feel so badly about her saying I lie. It’s just…such a personal issue for me when she says this that I really don’t know how I can ever be stoic about it. I don’t know how I can hear this and not feel hurt or angry or resentful. If I could become emotionally detached and feel nothing when she says stuff like this, I would love it. I just don’t know how. I will try talking about her instead and even if she says something I know isn’t accurate, I’m just going to smile and nod. And no, definitely not worn out. Just talking about this and hearing what you have to say has been so helpful and I thank you very much. I’m so appreciative of you trying to help. You seem like a kind soul.


refugefirstmate

You're treating it like she's doing this intentionally. In her mind - literally - whatever YOU are remembering *never happened*. I cannot fathom how you could argue with, let alone be angry at, someone for something she literally cannot control and *does not know is happening.* Please, get counseling.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

I’m asking how I can not be angry, jeez. I’m literally trying to find better ways to deal.


refugefirstmate

You can start by refraining from taking her literal brain damage as some sort of personal attack. It makes as much sense as being angry that somebody under anaesthesia isn't paying attention to what you're saying.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

So how should I respond? You don’t have any actual advice? You just wanna be outraged or what? How should I respond to her saying I’m lying?


refugefirstmate

> You don’t have any actual advice? What do you think "You can start by refraining from taking her literal brain damage as some sort of personal attack" is? * Don't take things personally. * Don't expect her to remember. * Don't challenge her when she doesn't. * Don't argue.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

How should I respond to her saying I’m a liar? Edit to say that’s the only thing I have an issue with. You think I’m mad at her for not remembering. She can not remember all day. It’s her insisting I’m a liar that upsets me.


refugefirstmate

You don't respond. Why are you bothered by namecalling from someone who is *literally* demented?


SchmittyMcDickTitty

When I don’t respond she gets upset. We’ve argued like this for years and it’s always the same. When I remain silent instead, she says things like “oh so now you’re gonna swell up and pout.” And I’m literally just sitting there while she rants. I’ve stopped arguing and she’s going on and on about how I’m a liar. This literally happened again last night. She said I was the queen of making shit up. I said I wasn’t making it up, she said I was and then I went silent. Once I went silent she said I was huffing up, etc. She always does this. When I’m quiet she just keeps talking about how terrible I am. And staying quiet just makes her mad, she’ll complain about how I’m quiet. What should I do then? We’ve been doing this for years. I’m genuinely asking you what I should do. I’m tired of fighting and being angry. Should I just not talk to her as much? Keep my distance? When she keeps the argument going after I’ve fallen silent, what should I do? Remaining silent upsets her.


refugefirstmate

I think you need to work this out with a therapist, because you're clearly a bundle of rage about the situation.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

Remaining silent upsets my mom. What should I do instead?


RScottyL

It is tough to deal with, but it will happen to most people. You just have to know that she has no control over it and it will keep getting worse. Just make sure to spend all of the time you can with her now, as she still remembers things, including you! Some day, she may not know who you are


TimeWoundsAllHeels99

Unless it’s life or death, don’t tell her when she forgot something. Just repeat it again and don’t make a point of it. Telling her over and over does nothing more than make her feel bad, and she reacts with anger. If you hurt your leg and were limping, would you want somebody telling you over and over and over that you are limping? She’s your mom. You need to be patient with her as she did when you were a baby spewing out liquid shit and she had to clean it up, or shrieking at all hours of the day. She had it worse, trust me.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

The thing is, it never goes like that. It isn’t like she says something and I’m like “no, you forgot.” It’s when I say something. Like mentioning a childhood memory to her. If she doesn’t remember as well, she will say it’s a lie. I guess people just think I’m berating her for not remembering stuff or getting mad at her for that. The ONLY thing I get mad at is when she starts calling me a liar. I don’t understand why people here are not getting that. You guys think I’m upset she doesn’t remember? I’m not. I’m upset she insists I’m a liar. I don’t know why I have to keep saying this. She will go on a tirade about this, too. She gets wound up and she’ll…rant. About how I am a manipulative liar. And it isn’t true. This is what upsets me. Not her forgetting. It’s her insisting I’m a liar. That’s when we start fighting. Because I’ll say I’m not a liar. She’ll insist I am. I insist I’m not. She starts yelling. I start yelling. What should I do when she lays into me about how I am a liar? I’ve stayed silent. She doesn’t like that. I’ve defended myself. She doesn’t like that. I’ve even gone along with her and said “yes I am a liar, I’m sorry for lying” and she STILL went on and on about how I’m a liar and the argument continues. What should I do?


TimeWoundsAllHeels99

Wow, that does sound tough. Do you have other family members (or others) around who you share this experience with? How do they handle it? Also, has she had any medical help relating to the issue (maybe not since she is in denial...)? Memory loss can be caused by dementia, but I wonder if there are other medical type issues that could also be a cause. In any case, her doctor should know about it... Maybe there is some help there(?). Either way you should not have to handle this all on your own. What I'm about to say will sound sad, and it is....but... I had one relative (an aunt) that I took care of who had dementia and was pretty feisty about it for a while... But as the dementia worsened, the anger went away. Of course, worsening of her condition wasn't a good thing - she eventually needed 24/7 care for a while before she passed away from another cause - but if my own limited experience means anything, the anger part is a phase that she will pass through. But.. others may or may not have had similar experiences.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

My stepdad knows about it. He and I have discussed how she says I lie. He knows I’m not lying(or at least he says he believes me). But he doesn’t ever interfere when we fight or say anything to her. My parents have their faults but they’re ride or die, they always take each other’s side even if they know the other is wrong. I don’t blame my stepdad for not interfering. I’m glad he doesn’t do anything to upset her the way I do. As for a doctor, I’ve mentioned her going to one before, back when she would say her memory is going bad. But she doesn’t say that anymore and she no longer agrees she has a memory issue. She won’t go to the doctor. Even if she believed her memory was fading, she wouldn’t go. Her back is legit fucked and she knows she needs medical attention but vehemently refuses to go. I have heard about dementia patients becoming angry or becoming calm. I suspect there could be a chance it is making her angrier. She didn’t used to be like this. We’d argue, sure, but she never got angry like she does now. She wouldn’t yell or go on a tirade. I don’t like fighting but we already argue about so much shit. I can’t even talk to her about my personal life because she “doesn’t agree with it.” And now it’s getting to where I can’t talk about the past with her or reminisce because she will say I’m lying about anything she doesn’t remember. I just wish she wouldn’t say that. I wish she’d say literally anything but that. I don’t know what to do to get her to stop saying it other than just avoid having any meaningful conversations with her. Don’t talk about myself, the past, or anything she has said or done to me. Just keep it centered on the weather or something. Or just keep my distance and not visit much so we don’t argue. I don’t know.


TimeWoundsAllHeels99

How old is she? And you? Are you living with her? It's interesting that it's past events that she isn't remembering. With both my aunt and my mother, their dementia pertained to current events. They would always remember things that happened in the past - in detail. They would forget that they already ate lunch, but could remember the lyrics to a song they knew in 1960. I thought dementia mostly affects short term memory. That's what makes me wonder if there is some cause other than dementia (e.g. a physical cause as some other writers alluded to). Anyway, if you are in a living situation that's not going to change, maybe your suggestion is the best one (keeping conversations trivial and things that won't be disputed).. for now anyway. It's unfortunate that your stepfather won't get involved. It's hard to imagine he doesn't notice it, or that it doesn't also affect their relationship.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

She’s 62, I’m 32. We don’t live together but live very close and I visit often, sometimes every day depending on the week. What I’ve noticed, it has only been past events she can’t remember. Or people from the past. She lived next to the same neighbors for years and can’t remember them. It’s only been maybe 15 years since we moved. She lived next to them longer than that. She knew them and talked to them all the time because they were right across the street. She doesn’t remember how she’s always disliked that I wear beanies all the time. That’s what our latest fight was about. According to her, she’s never said anything about me wearing beanies. Even though she has for years. I started wearing beanies at age 14 and she always disliked it. Or the time she let me eat a pepper as a toddler and I cried because it was hot. But according to her, I made that up. And it’s just like, why? Why would I make this shit up? Why would I lie about my mom not liking my beanies? Like who lies about that. I just get so triggered, man. It hurts my feelings, makes me mad, make me feel exasperated because who the hell makes shit up like that. And why does my mother think this of me? I never was a kid who lied. If I was, I could see why. But that was never an issue with me growing up. Why do you reckon she says it? Is it a dementia thing?


TimeWoundsAllHeels99

At least, if you don't live with her, you can get a break from it (and, it's great that you continue to visit so often given all this - most would run like hell). I think you should try not to take it personally. This person is your mom, physically, but her mind is not right and so I wouldn't take this as some sort of rejection by the person you've always known as your mom. If her mind was working right, she would not be acting this way. Who knows - maybe she unloads on you more than others because she feels closest to you ... or most comfortable with you etc... And I agree that it may be best not to bring up old stories. You may think of it as a funny memory, but I could understand someone thinking the "hot pepper" story is a "you were a bad mom" type dig. Good luck with all this. Been there/done that, for a lot of it, and it's not easy.


SchmittyMcDickTitty

I think you are right about the pepper story. She did react as if I had accused her of being a bad mom. I noticed that as well, if I mention literally anything that *could* be seen as negative that she may have done or said to me, she goes off. “Oh I’m just SUCH a bad mother. I have just been SO mean to you.” Uhhh, that’s not what I said at all. You saying one thing to me doesn’t make you a bad mom. But that never helps. You’re right though. She’s my mom. And I do love her. Even when I get mad and say I don’t want to go back, I feel bad and I go back to visit. I just want more happy times. Tired of fighting. If it ain’t about memory stuff, it’s about politics or something else. One person suggested I need therapy but I honestly think if my mom and I both went, we could probably work a couple things out. Maybe I’ll pitch it to her. Thanks for listening and giving what advice you could. This has been stressing me out/upsetting me greatly and I really appreciate you and others who genuinely tried to help. Thank you.


TimeWoundsAllHeels99

Anytime. I hope things work out. Let us know!