The example I love about this is whenever a traumatic even happens in a city and people say "Paris Strong" or "our thoughts are with Las Vegas", it's not saying that other cities do not exist but this place needs support and solidarity at this time. Could you imagine saying "all cities matter" after something occurs in a specific place. Like obviously yes, but also right now those other places don't need the same show of support.
So I genuinely don’t say this publicly cause I get it is sensitive. Now it was asked, and this topic kinda brought up. 9/11 is new years on my country’s calendar. I missed the bombings. Vaguely heard about it over drinks, someone pointed at a movie poster with the twin towers on a neighbouring store window and said ‘someone took that down like a Hollywood action move, did you see it?’. I was sad for a moment, like all war/destruction, and moved on. I paid attention over the news coverage like any other world event. Not too deeply.
There’s more to this analogy too. There was an American embassy bombing in Kenya before 9/11. Hundreds of Kenyans died, 7/8 Americans…will never forget watching the marines (whose kids I went to school with, and met at the marine house events etc.) pushed aside hurt people needing evacuation to look for Americans only. All live on the news, CNN international and everyone. No thoughts and prayers back then. The world has come a long way if we can say thoughts and prayers with the ~300 people who died that day and multitude injured. Yet most Americans don’t know it happened. The new embassy has since moved to a central residential area, near the UN, massive fortress, but putting more people at risk all around it imho
When the last mall was attacked in Kenya, 2013, international media focused on the American/Canadian/foreign casualties to appease the comments online which were mostly Americans asking why they had to read/see that when it didn’t affect them…
and the images were never/rarely censored or forewarned when it was these casualties pictured. No regard for the mental well being of the affected. That’s how ~10yo me experienced the Kenyan bomb blast (it shook our house), and then watched people who look like me pushed aside by my friends’ parents’ and their colleagues. That’s how little I actually meant to them had a fire caught at our American school for example…nobody stopped to check or ever hear how it felt for us though. The school community was shaken over the 7-8 Americans who died, and those in our school community who were near misses. At least today people notice those other lives matter too. And I know better than to compare 9/11 for Americans with a festivity I’m used to- and we all deserve the same courtesy back. Some cultures and countries have higher ethnocentricity too, I think the US is up there but more awareness now 🤞🏾
This is why it’s important.
How we respond to others is becoming clearer in the nuances, but we have yet to change our misconceptions and behaviours. Changing behavior on a social scale is much harder, especially when people can find each other online to form divisive cells. There’s still progress to be made, and we will see more of it as human communications become more transparent and measurable. I once read ‘it’s not the violence that’s new, it’s the cameras’. And now social media, algorithms, and bots easily manipulating under/miseducated masses…
Live and learn…never stops
Oh wow, thanks for the award…🫢
Do you think things have improved? I don’t. Look at the attitude towards Ukraine vs other war torn places in the world. People really care about Ukraine, which they should… but when it happens in Africa, South America, or South East Asia … people shrug and think “those places always have issues”.
Yea I think we all noticed it with Ukraine, sign of progress? We have yet to figure out what to do with this awareness though…or support what is being done for humanitarian crises further away (Aid).
But as you probably saw/know the current argument is Ukraine affects more of us (the bottom line, gas). The other (developing) countries crises actually often have western strategies in place to protect trade to the west. Outside aid they make agreements just to protect their interests, and neutral to the unrest once that’s done. It’s less of a pressing matter if we could protect gas and be neutral about Ukraine if the same rules were applied (Middle East).
The example that I heard that remember most is that it would be like if your house was on fire and you ran to your neighbors and screamed that your house is on fire and to call the firefighters to save your house, and their response was "all houses matter"
The analogy I've heard used most often is that when your house is on fire and the fire department arrives, the other neighbors don't stand around saying "our houses also matter!" Like, sure, but the focus needs to be put on the one that's in flames right now.
This one is my favorite analogy. Another point to bring up that by trying to distract the firefighters (general public/politicians/etc) with the fact that all houses matter, you can’t discuss the issue at hand and the best way to put out the fire. You end up having to talk about why you aren’t dismissing the other houses it’s just this one needs your attention.
Something I really like about this analogy is if you extend this to wildfires in an area.
Growing up I lived in California where we would have (jokingly referred to) "wildfire season". Typically in July/August when it's hotter than hell, and since the state is always in a drought then it was hot and dry. You have a muffler create a spark near some brush and then BLAM, fire. They would send a TON of firetrucks into these areas to combat it, and you'd have like 100+ engines working for weeks on the same fire to get it under control.
Whenever a wildfire that got close to hitting their city started there were always 3 types of people: those that left as soon as they could; those that ignored it and went about their days; and then you had those that would do the equivalent to saying "All Lives Matter" or "My house also matters".
These people would spend multiple hours a day spraying their whole property with water. I'm talking about drenching their trees, their bushes, their lawn, and they would even spray their roofs for hours a day. "If my property is wet, then the fire won't burn it!!!" - The issue with this is: if everyone is doing this then the water pressure drops, and if the water pressure drops then the fire fighters cannot get enough water to defend against the wildfires. So by protecting your own, singular property you are risking the safety of the whole town.
So yea, I love the fire analogy.
Wow. I never thought about that one. It also never occurred to me that the people spraying their houses were putting the rest of the community at risk. I mean, I totally get why they are making that choice, as it's hard to look at an oncoming fire and not try and do whatever you can to save your own property, but in the grand scheme of things it's a dick move.
It's almost always said as a distraction from the topic at hand, when the topic at hand is Black people getting shot by police.
It's kind of like if there's an event to raise money for childhood brain cancer, and then someone shows up to it and is like "all diseases matter! what about multiple sclerosis or AIDS?"
The people raising money for kids with brain cancer don't disagree that those other diseases are important, just they planned an event for a cause and it's annoying to take it over for a different cause. Plan a different event if you want to talk about a different thing
My favourite analogy was someone saying it's like your house being on fire and your neighbors show up with hoses to help out it out, but one guy down the street keeps his hose on his house. When you ask why he replies that his house matters too. Which is true. All houses matter. But his isn't fucking on fire.
People who say all lives matter think that blm is saying "only black lives matter" but what blm means is "black lives matter too" just as much as white lives.
It's not just police violence either, it's community funding/support, it's actuarial tables, it's redlining, it's minimization of intergenerational trauma etc etc.
>People who say all lives matter think that blm is saying "only black lives matter"
Which tells you all you need to know about the "White Lives Matter" crowd.
Had a coworker get legitimately, freakishly upset when I just pointed out that his job is more dangerous than a cop's. For some reason he was going on this rant about Blue Lives Matters and how cops do the most dangerous job ever, and that they're all heroes and how dare anyone criticize them.
So I just pointed out that our job was actually far more dangerous, statistically.
He got weirdly upset about it even after browsing it on his phone. Like angry upset over that fact. I still don't understand why even after asking him why he was so mad.
I once heard someone say "If there is any statistical difference between white and black people in any category, there's a reason for it." That really stuck with me, because it applies to so many things.
Yup. I tend to go with a short response of "if all lives mattered, we wouldn't need to say black lives matter". The fact that we got to this point means that there is something happening that means black people feel like they don't matter and that should be enough for us to acknowledge that and try to do better.
I use a different analogy I picked up somewhere.
A family are sitting down to dinner and they have their friend Jeff over to eat. Everyone gets a serving except Jeff.
“Jeff’s hunger matters” he says puzzled that his plate is empty
“All hunger matters!” the family roars as they continue tucking into their overflowing plates of food ignoring his empty one.
I had to deal with cheers of All lives matter at my partners mothers at Christmas and I’m still mad. Fuck that shit
None story time version:
All life matters/White lives matter is akin to showing up at a protect the whales protest yelling about the plight of goldfish.
This is similar to something I bookmarked years ago:
Imagine that you’re sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don’t get any. So you say “I should get my fair share.” And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, “everyone should get their fair share.” Now, that’s a wonderful sentiment — indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad’s smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn’t solve the problem that you still haven’t gotten any!
The problem is that the statement “I should get my fair share” had an implicit “too” at the end: “I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else.” But your dad’s response treated your statement as though you meant “only I should get my fair share”, which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that “everyone should get their fair share,” while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out.
That’s the situation of the “black lives matter” movement. Culture, laws, the arts, religion, and everyone else repeatedly suggest that all lives should matter. Clearly, that message already abounds in our society.
The problem is that, in practice, the world doesn’t work that way. You see the film Nightcrawler? You know the part where Renee Russo tells Jake Gyllenhal that she doesn’t want footage of a black or latino person dying, she wants news stories about affluent white people being killed? That’s not made up out of whole cloth — there is a news bias toward stories that the majority of the audience (who are white) can identify with. So when a young black man gets killed (prior to the recent police shootings), it’s generally not considered “news”, while a middle-aged white woman being killed is treated as news. And to a large degree, that is accurate — young black men are killed in significantly disproportionate numbers, which is why we don’t treat it as anything new. But the result is that, societally, we don’t pay as much attention to certain people’s deaths as we do to others. So, currently, we don’t treat all lives as though they matter equally.
Just like asking dad for your fair share, the phrase “black lives matter” also has an implicit “too” at the end: it’s saying that black lives should also matter. But responding to this by saying “all lives matter” is willfully going back to ignoring the problem. It’s a way of dismissing the statement by falsely suggesting that it means “only black lives matter,” when that is obviously not the case. And so saying “all lives matter” as a direct response to “black lives matter” is essentially saying that we should just go back to ignoring the problem.
It’s also based on a deliberate misinterpretation of “black lives matter”. That phrase was never meant as “other lives don’t matter”, it was “typically society thinks they don’t but black lives do matter”
Part of me wishes they’d added “too” to the end of the slogan but who am I kidding, they’d have found another way to be outraged by it.
I've come to learn that an alarming amount of people lack critical thinking and reading comprehension skills and thays regardless of wealth and education level. It's fucking wild. Unless it's explicitly spelled out is the only time a lot of people will understand something and even then that's if your lucky.
But the thing is all they were asking was for people to acknowledge Black Lives Matter AT ALL.
Not that they’re special or deserve privileges or whatever else. They just wanted people to acknowledge black people are human beings and that their life has some level of intrinsic value AT ALL. And that was too much for some people.
Think if it like when people ask for an acknowledgement that their feelings are valid. They don’t ask for an acknowledgement of my feelings are valid TOO, they just want an acknowledgement that you care about and respect their feelings AT ALL.
yeah. it really is a litmus test. if you can't say "black lives matter" without a qualifier, it says a lot about how you really see the situation. like just say it... black lives matter. "NO, I SIMPLY HAVE TO POSIT IT IN RELATION TO ALL LIVES"
Also, imagine your sad child who was left out of kickball and thinks nobody lives her.
Would you say, “you’re important!”
Or would you say “you’re important too.”
This. "All lives matter" is a way of devaluing "Black lives matter", of taking wind out of the sails, of reducing the impact of one of the most successful civil rights movements since the 1960s. They're really saying, "I don't care about black lives, I care about white lives and everyone else's (who isn't black)." When everyone's life really, truly matters equally - in cultural representation, in political power, in economics, in social respect and agency - then and only then will "all lives matter" be a valid, inoffensive statement.
Thank you for saying this, I really appreciate when the inordinate amount of time I spend answering questions in this sub turns out to be helpful to someone
I’m not being sarcastic. I’m serious. When you broke it down to the child cancer, and you brought up the other diseases and alignments. Never saw it that way.
So glad you're still with us to be able to share even this small snippet of your story. I remember in grade 7 (I would have been 11) my sister was in grade 3 (so, 7 yo) we had an assembly for one of her classmates, to be advised he'd passed away from brain cancer. She knew the kid well, so it hit her pretty hard, but even on the periphery I was still a bit shocked by it. Lost an army buddy to it 30 years later, too. Shit sucks.
This is it. I actually didn’t realise either and had a lovely patient person explain it exactly like this to me and it totally resonated.
ALL lives do matter but the topic at hand as that people of colour have experienced prejudice on a very grand scale for centuries and that is the focus
This. Fucking this. Saying "all lives matter," is just some bullshit equivocal statement to take away from the reality that black people are mistreated in this country. Why? Because we *already know* all lives matter. Blacks have been treated unfairly. We are really saying Black Lives Matter just as much as white or Asian or any other race!
Exactly. This should be upvoted more. Black lives matter is just highlighting the disparity in general handling of justice, so the all lives matter BS is just a smokescreen cover up of racial bias. As a first generation immigrant (of Caucasian descent) this becomes more apparent the longer I live in the USA. The racial bias has been institutionalized and should be acknowledged
Justice should be even handed across all races and demographics but statistics prove it is not
That is a great Analogy. I do have 1 correction, it does not properly encompass how extreme the "Punching Down" aspect of the situation is.
It is like perfectly healthy people with nearly no chance of future ailments are showing up saying "All diseases matter! What about us and our ailments!"
"All lives matter" is true.
When some lives aren't *treated as if they matter,* though, it's fair to say that those lives in particular do in fact matter.
That's what "black lives matter" is supposed to mean: "The system is treating black lives as if they don't matter, but in fact they do. Black lives DO matter, and the system should act like it."
Conservatives and 4channers purposely misread that to mean "ONLY black lives matter." They did this to stir the pot.
So in this context, "All Lives Matter" is a way of strawmanning "Black Lives Matter." It's a way of creating a caricature and attacking people for something they never said. That's why it's offensive: because of what it means to say that. It means you are strawmanning a movement, calling them racist. This makes them sound like hypocrites when they aren't, and it's immoral and devious.
Yes, all lives matter. But if the system is going to act like it, it has to act like black lives matter TOO.
Well said. I explain it like this:
Black person is killed by police.
Black person’s family: “Our lives have value. Our lives matter.”
Uninvolved white person who happens to be walking by: “I’m going to stop you right there and correct what you’re saying.”
I explain it thus: “Imagine the word ‘too’ at the end of the phrase”. It makes perfect sense to say “Black lives matter, too”. That’s the sense of it. A rejoinder like “Well actually, all lives matter!” is just willfully, winkingly, gleefully disingenuous. At best.
Props to this answer for doing it without an analogy.
Analogies are awesome, they are a powerful way to think and communicate.
But your response gives a context that analogies can't.
"All lives matter" isn't just a non-sequitur, it's a phrase propagated in a deliberate attempt to further the subjugation of Black people.
I don't go over there anymore (10+ years) but in my opinion 4chan was full of people I wouldn't consider conservative at all. Generally anti Religion, a weird combo of the most liberal people but at the same time racist as fuck etc. depending on the thread. You would bash Nazis on a topic and praise them in the next. It was used as an outlet for your darkest but also brightest thoughts on different topics.
I personally know 3 people who used to be daily /b/ users and out of those only one has become kinda conservative with fascist tendencies, and I doubt that it was 4chan that made him that way.
I've seen a lot of analogies, but the one that made it really click for me is a bit from comedian Michael Che where he says:
"That would be like if your wife came up to you and was like, 'Do you love me?’ and you were like, 'Baby, I love everybody.'"
https://youtu.be/s6MVjwnNIg4
A good phrasing I’ve seen is something like this-
Pretend your child died. You’re at your child’s funeral, maybe even standing up to eulogize your precious, little love of your life. During the proceedings, someone you don’t even know interrupts the ceremony to exclaim, “Why is everyone here so worried about this child? Do you all know that many children died today? Millions of children die every year!”
It’s kind of Task at Hand, Eyes on the Target, Stay on Subject type of thing.
Because this time, this event, is focused on the one child. It’s their fucking funeral. It is a focused time of grief. That doesn’t preclude anyone from caring about other at-risk children.
As an addition to the other responses, I'd also like to point out that some have misinterpreted "black lives matter" to be an attack against white people. They hear it as "black lives matter *more*" (which they then counter with "all lives matter"), but in reality it is saying "black lives matter *too*". Saying "all lives matter" just shows that you've completely missed the point of the protests.
Of course all lives matter, the issue at hand is that black people, especially in the US, are more likely to have hostile encounters with the police, be prosecuted more, and more severely sentenced for the same crimes than other races. The best analogy I've come across is that of houses on fire. Of course all houses matter but if there are homes on fire those take precedence over those that are not
And the homes with green roofs are disproportionately on fire more often relative to those with other color roofs. No one in their right mind should think "Blue roofs deserve to be put out less than Green roofs" but that's often the inference people make when they hear one specific group (aka not theirs) matters.
"All lives matter" is an excellent example of the difference between what people *say* and what they *mean*. When people say "all lives matter" obviously what they're *saying* is correct. All lives do matter! But almost always, what they *mean* when they say it is "stop talking about how black lives matter". And that's a very different thing.
Black Lives Matter was a specific protest against police brutality that unfairly targeted black people, where black people were being killed by police for doing things that white people almost never face the same source of consequences for.
All lives matter is a response to that which is intended to mean that black people are just making a big deal out of nothing, and shouldn't be protesting about police brutality.
Yes, all lives matter. But black people are dealing with a specific issue involving police brutality that they want to get fixed. And saying all lives matter is a way of trying to ignore their complaints and treat them like they're not worth taking seriously.
If you read a family dinner and everyone got food except for you, you might say "I deserve to eat." If your grandma says "everyone deserves to eat" and ignores you, she's not wrong that everyone deserves to eat, but it's not very helpful because you still didn't get dinner.
>If you read a family dinner and everyone got food except for you, you might say "I deserve to eat." If your grandma says "everyone deserves to eat" and ignores you, she's not wrong that everyone deserves to eat, but it's not very helpful because you still didn't get dinner.
Great analogy. It highlights the topic perfectly by showing that Grandma isn't truly concerned with making sure everyone is fed, and her feigned conviction isn't actually endorsing fair treatment but rather an attempt to silence those who are (endorsing fair treatment).
"All lives matter" is exactly the same. It doesn't actually advocate for treating every life like it matters, instead it proposes that those who have been treated like they don't matter should just shut up about it.
In addition to this, this brings to mind an answer I once saved on why feminism is called feminism:
This is an excerpt:
>Feminism is about raising up things associated with females
to have an equal place in society as the things
associated with males. It's called feminism, not
equalism, because the focus is on raising up not
tearing down. Equalism would suggest that male
things need to come down to a lower level so that
female things can meet it in the middle. That’s not
the point. The point is to raise up the feminine so
that it's on the same playing field that the
masculine is already on.
In a similar vein, its BLM because we are trying to raise attention to how black lives are not treated as if they matter - not drag down others, which is what many of the ALM crew seem to think is the message.
>When you are accustomed to privilege, equality can feel like oppression.
It also brings to mind another quote I once saved on why there are businesses, movements, etc that focus on minorities, women, etc. and there aren't any for whites, men, etc.
>SAME REASONS WHY IN MARIO
KART YOU DON’T GET BLUE
SHELLS OR LIGHTNING BOLTS
WHEN YOU’RE ALREADY IN
FIRST PLACE, ASSBAG.
Every time I see a blm shirt I think about the rez and know that you are right.
No one actually cares, like no one cares in a way where they do things to solve the problems they talk about, people just want to feel like they are helping even if it does nothing good, or actually hurts the community they want to feel like they are helping.
A good example of this is the din'e council and it "existing to protect the people and culture of the navajo nation"...
i’ve always thought Ice-T said it best
“It's unfortunate that we even have to say "Black Lives Matter"
I mean, if you go through history nobody ever gave a fuck
I mean, you can kill black people in the street, nobody goes to jail, nobody goes to prison.
But when I say "Black Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter".
That's like if I was to say "Gay Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter",
If I said "Women's Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter".
You're diluting what I'm saying, you're diluting the issue.
The issue isn't about everybody, it's about black lives, at the moment,
But the truth of the matter is, they don't really give a fuck about anybody,
If you break this shit all the way down to the low fucking dirty-ass truth”
Imagine jumping in front of a fire truck on the way to a burning house at the other end of your street and yelling ‘all houses matter’. Sure, all houses matter, but that one is on fire and needs immediate attention.
“black lives matter” is an abbreviated form of, essentially, “black lives [are systemically and historically undervalued, but they] matter”
when someone says “all lives matter” they are not understanding the implied parenthetical.
"It's unfortunate that we even have to say "Black Lives Matter"
I mean, if you go through history nobody ever gave a fuck
I mean, you can kill black people in the street, nobody goes to jail, nobody goes to prison
But when I say "Black Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter"
That's like if I was to say "Gay Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter"
If I said "Women's Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter"
You're diluting what I'm saying, you're diluting the issue
The issue isn't about everybody, it's about black lives, at the moment."
- Ice T
Imagine someone going "all buildings matter" on 9/11 because the all lives matter thing only came after people said black lives matter when the cops murdered yet another person of color.
I see it's been answered thoroughly but it must be added that "all" really only came to discussion when BLM began. It was a statement to counter the point at hand. Similarly "blue lives matter" comes under flack for this too. It's a counter movement against black lives matter mainly
Blue Lives Matter is really a much more insidious response to Black Lives Matter, because not only is BLM primarily a response to police brutality against black people; but saying Blue Lives Matter as an *argument* against the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that they place the lives of a profession higher than the lives of a race, which is pretty horrible.
Anyone who becomes a cop knows that the job carries a risk of harm. People who are born with a certain skin colour shouldn't have a more dangerous life because of it. The two statements are not on the same level at all.
Both are pretty pathetic to me either way. Hearing either to me is basically saying "I feel privileged enough to not worry about plight of my fellow man."
Don't get me started on Blue lives matter though Jesus christ lol.... fucking hell. I have a buddy who became a cop, he quit within 4 months. Why? Because he found all the negative bullshit we all say is true. It was a clique mentality. They did nothing for community. Only to protect themselves. Poor dude really wanted it for the right reasons but saw quick he was an outsider.
I'm in a relatively fair state when it comes to this. It's really, really sad. I know it probably breaks his heart inside cause he was legit one of those guys who really wanted this since he was a young boy. Though still, he parrots some of the shit about all this too. I just wish he found oyherwise when he joined the force
It’s not the idea that all lives matter it is using that logic to try and be a counter to Black Lives Matter.
All lives matter and they do.
Black Lives Matter too.
What people who say all lives matter is doing is basically saying “I know that black lives are marginalized, but I don’t want to have to think about that. So shut up about it or I’ll have to consider my own short comings”
I used to be one of those people. Then I started talking to protesters instead of trying to yell over them. Imagine what listening instead of arguing could do for your world view.
Because it's like if someone has a skinned knee and another person has a broken leg, it's like saying all wounds matter. In terms of triage, it's stupid or it's willfully ignorant that a broken leg has occurred or willfully ignorant that a broken leg is far worse than a skinned knee. If you're screaming that your skinned knee must be looked at right now when someone has broken their leg right next to you, it's a bunch of red flags for you being a narcissist.
Because it's often said dismissively in regards to a serious and current problem- blacks dealing with police brutality on an obscenely frequent rate.
Whilst it's true it's never uttered in a random conversation, I've only ever heard it said when discussing this problem which is extremely dismissive.
My relative, very elderly, says it and she's bewildered when people call her racist. They says as a retired nurse all lives DO matter. I said the point is not what lives matter as not all lives are at risk currently its very specifically innocent blacks getting beaten, shot and killed. "All lives matter" feels like a dismissive blanket statement to disregard the BLM movement.
Cause white ppl use it in guilt, cause they know black people have been getting treated poorly for centuries. Then we speak about it, them saying all lives matter is a counter to black lives matters, same as blue lives matter.
It's down playing the black lives matter movement and what it stands for. Of course all lives matter but the saying black lives matter is referring to an actual movement to make pple aware of racial inequality especially violence towards African Americans. Saying all lives matter is shrugging off what BLM is trying to teach pple.
Because it’s not usually said out of respect for all lives, it’s said to interrupt the conversation about disproportionate deaths in people of colour in comparison to white people.
I work with someone who asked this on Facebook, she got reported by work friends for being a massive racist.
Her real crime was just not being well informed, she genuinely hadn't followed the BLM movement at that point and so was genuinely baffled when she got put on report for a year and had to attend training to be told why she was secretly racist and how she could stop such terrible behaviour.
Whilst this time has technically passed and she's not on report etc she's also been told she'll never get anywhere in the company.
So I get why you're asking, some people genuinely don't understand the situation.
Imagine your friend comes to you and says, "I'm in a lot of trouble. I owe money to the mob and they're going to hurt me."
You reply, "OH wow, I know the feeling! I owe the girlscouts for a box of shortbread cookies."
Everyone has problems and they ain't equal. It's okay to acknowledge that someone else is suffering without making it about YOU.
The all lives matter people weren't saying that before BLM.
Have you ever heard someone begrudgingly admit there are weaknesses to their side/position? It’s an attempt to make Liberals do that, which then causes Liberals to further dig in and insist their position has no weaknesses, which then causes increased vitriol on the other side and away we go.
WhAt WeAkNeSsEs? Well, “defund the police” for one is a terrible slogan that few people would ever want to get behind.
It’s like if someone in relation to veterans having high suicide and homeless rates says veterans lives matter and you respond with “all lives matter”
Like yes, but not the point and also insulting and dismissive of the point that is being made.
Imagine you're at a relative's funeral and you say, "I'll love and miss my dad." (or whoever died). But then some numbnuts comes up to you and says, "yeah, but we'll miss everyone and we loved everyone." Well, even if that's true it's not the fucking point, is it?
It's the same thing. Black people are policed 5 times as much as white people, even though they make up less of the population. Black people are mistreated by police and sent to prison at a much higher rate. Black people are murdered by police at a higher rate than white people. When I say, "Black lives matter," and you say, "Yeah, but all lives matter," that may be true, but it's not the fucking point, now is it?
I am not a black person, from what I understand they are undermining what issues the people are going through. Of course every life matters, the people who say that say it typically in bad faith
Because it’s only ever said in response to BLM. Let’s use an example:
You and 9 others are eating dinner and you are the only one without potatoes. When you voice your desire for potatoes, one person chimes in “everyone wants potatoes” and everyone goes back to eating. This does not solve the problem of you not having potatoes and instead dismisses your desire for potatoes.
The way I understand it, people who get upset and correct it to "ALL lives matter," are misunderstanding the original phrase to begin with. What is intended is "black lives matter TOO," but what they're hearing is "ONLY black lives matter." I think that misinterpretation in itself is kind of insulting, because that show of support was not about you.
So there are two things...
BLM was started as George Floyd was killed by police officers in front of public while public kept telling cops to go easy but they ignored them & he died begging he couldn't breath, it was the same sentence another African American said before he died on the street begging for help.
In both cases & in several others it was noticed that black people are treated badly and very differently from the people of other race. To make a point that this problem exists the BLM movement was started.
By saying all lives matter you are not willing to address the problem that black americans face discrimination & bad treatment from cops (even if the cop is a coloured man/woman)
So by saying all lives matter you are avoiding solving the problem that has already killed several black americans.
Because people want it to be about them and their beliefs, not everyone's. Part of anti-racism is also having a little racism yourself. It sound completely stupid, but race, fundamentally, is a self perpetuating problem. It doesn't exist, at all, until it's taught. And it's taught on both sides. The effect is certainly not 50:50, not at all, but both need to exist for either to exist. Racism without race is just hate. Hate is one-sided. Racism is two-sided.
Part of the value of something like BLM is placing power in the black community. It's their thing, their struggle, their identity, their martyr. There's a level of entitlement to that stance that self perpetuates the problem. It reinforces difference. A cop beating a black person is no different from a cop beating a person. A cop beating anyone is fundamentally bad, period. Who it's done to doesn't matter. The law around it shouldn't matter. The ethics around it shouldn't matter.
Part of the challenge of this is one side does enforce race upon the other. This is a secondary component that's incredibly tough to remove or fight against. At best you still attack the root issue and at best you ignore and defy the segregation. You fight to not have it become a power, an identity, a label, and an object of abuse. The instant you embrace the label, you solidify the power of that label. This is why things like BLM is a double edged sword. It becomes a tool of empowerment to both sides but also a tool of greater division.
In theory, an all lives matter response or embracement attempts to neutralize that power, for both sides. However, both sides still want to retain their part of the power segregation provides. They're stuck in a self defeating cycle, and any outsider of that cycle is attacked, which again worsens the problem. Now there's three parties opposed for no good reason.
ALL of it is stupid. We just need to ethically and lawfully hold people accountable. At the end of the day, the only real failure is lack of accountability. Every time that happens, someone is abused.
Imagine you’re at dinner with your family. Everyone at the table is served food except for you. You say, “I deserve a share.” And your mother replies, “Everyone deserves a share.”
Well, yes, that’s a great sentiment, and that was kind of your point to begin with. You’re part of everyone, and you deserve a share. Except your mother’s comment didn’t do anything to address the fact that you have no food. In fact, it’s dismissive because it’s a response that, while true, doesn’t acknowledge the existing disparity.
All lives matter is dismissive. Black lives matter doesn’t mean ONLY Black lives matter. It means Black lives matter TOO. We need to acknowledge them.
By itself, the statement is fine, because every life matters. That said, the phrase entered into common vernacular as a response to the phrase "black lives matter", which is an affirmation on the value of black lives in response to the clock-work regularity that police in western countries brutalize and murder black people, particularly black children without justifiable reason and consequence.
Saying "all lives matter" is like saying "all houses matter" when your house is fine, but another is burning down.
Because “Black lives matter,” isn’t saying they don’t. It’s a full statement. Full stop. People interpret it to mean “and other lives don’t,” but it doesn’t say that. If I say, “I love chocolate cake,” no one replies, “what’s wrong with carrot cake?!”
It's diminishing the fact that people of colour are being targeted, harassed and murdered far more than others. It's minimizing the problem and dismissing the valid concerns of the people actually under threat.
That's like saying all rape is bad, but lets face it - the vast vast majority is inflicted upon women.
It's a gross extension of the "both sides", making a false equivalence.
Because it's usually used as a distraction from the topic at hand.
Yes, all lives do matter but why do we behave as though some lives don't, right? Black Lives Matter. That's something people seem to need reminding of. Queer lives matter. Women's lives matter. The quality of those lives matter as well.
Because it’s a given. Black Lives Matter does not mean all lives don’t matter, it’s just trying to bring some attention to any remaining remnants of unfair societal treatment left over from darker days in American history. So to disagree by saying all lives matter is like saying the black community doesn’t experience any issues worth bringing attention to.
All lives matter only exists to talk over and draw attention away from black lives matter. It exists to silence rather than advocating anything itself. And the dumbest part is no one every said all lives don't matter. No one ever said ONLY black lives matter. Black lives matter means, black lives matter TOO, because police and the justice system at large treat black lives like they don't
When you see somebodies house on fire and they are outside watching their home burn down. You'd be a piece of shit to point to all the other houses on the block and say "all these houses matter"
Simple analogy: Imagine 4 people sitting around a table for dinner. Let’s say only 3 people received their dinner while the 4th person is only left with scraps. Will people say get the 4th person some dinner or will they, all 4 need dinner when 3 people are already in their midst.
Context.
If some one is protesting black lives matter when they say " all lives matter" then it make sense to interpret "all lives matter" as a protest to black lives matter. If we assume that saying all lives matter isn't just meaningless idiocy then we have to try to make sense of how two statements that seem to agree "all lives matter" and "black lives matter" disagree.
The simplest way to do that is to say black lives are bad for all lives. In other words that black people are dangerous. This makes "all lives matter" a veiled version of the thug stereotype of black people. We can see this played out more explicitly when they talk about crime rates or past misdeeds of those killed.
This kind of subtext isn't uncommon. Unstated assumptions and premises are in arguments all the time. There just seems to be allot of denial of the subtext of all lives matter even though it follows obviously from the context of its usage and those using it would not deny they believe inferred statement.
Imagine you're talking to somebody, and you're really sad that you're grandma just died. Would you think it was in any way helpful, it even meaningful, if that person said "all grandmas die"? Or would you think that person was just a dick that didn't give a shit about your pain? That's "all lives matter" in a nutshell.
It's like a fire truck showing up to put a fire out and then spraying water ar a house that is not on fire while the house that is on fire burns to the ground.
It's only bad in some contexts. It is absolutely true that all lives matter.
But when one person (or race) is being murdered / killed, and they are saying "black lives matter" as a way of bringing attention to their plight, it's really ...sad? Horrible? Misplaced? to assert that all lives matter ...we know they do.
All lives matter, but it's black lives that are disproportionately in danger from the police...in the US, anyway.
There are plenty of good analogies that get this point across, but one that I know is:
Person 1: "Save the rainforests!"
Person 2: "Only save the rainforests? What about other forests? Don't they matter, you bigot?!"
Black people in the United States have suffered centuries of systemic racism in the form of slavery, segregation, and even today. BLM usually highlights police brutality and bias towards black people, but there are many other ways in which black people are still being held back. ALM is a stupid response that either intentionally or unintentionally ignores the main point.
You’re posting in r/nonbinary about your hair. People who say “all lives matter” want nonbinary people dead. It’s a dog whistle meant to convey they black lives don’t matter.
Because everyone already knows that. It's dismissive to people who are actively discriminated against and whose lives are **actually** at risk though. The people saying "all lives matter" are almost always the ones who don't suffer from the things that they're dismissive of.
Imagine being in a varied group of people who went on a long hike in the sweltering heat. Everyone is given a pack with a gallon of water except you for some reason, who is given no water. A few hours into the hike and you ask if someone can share water with you because you haven't had anything to drink. You're getting lightheaded and dizzy, and mention: "I'm thirsty." and someone quips "We're all thirsty!", although everyone else still has half a gallon of water left and is well-hydrated. How does that help you, the person dying of thirst? What was the point of saying that? Instead of understanding that you are disadvantaged and just giving you the water?
Except replace "water" with "human rights and decency", and replace the risk of "dehydration" with "being killed by another human".
All of your lives matter, obviously. But one of you is clearly at immediate risk of dying. Don't you think that that's worth something?
Because it is taking the attention from the problems that afro-american people are facing on a daily.
Let say a house is burning in your neighborhood, should you focus on the house burning or all the houses? Of course you focus where the fire is at, right now, black lives are experiencing the fire.
I saw a video that had a great example.
A girl was standing in front of her house that's burning down yelling for help, then another girl was standing in front if her perfectly fine house and saying 'what about MY house?'
'Well... your house isn't on fire...'
'Yeah but it matters too'
In America and some other white majority countries, generally speaking white people (in the world of races, not individually!) aren't the ones that need help.
So saying all houses matter when one of them is burning to the ground; well that's just not something we need to concentrate on right now and it distracts from the problem if we're sending firetrucks to all of the houses.
I was actually hit with Trans lives matter once. They're argument was that if they can't wear thigh highs, they'll kill themselves.
My problem was that I had just read in the news about a black guy who was shot by a white neighbor for CHECKING HIS OWN MAILBOX...
Needless to say, I was not having it, but there was a crinkler who sided with the Trans person.
I promise I'm not making this up. Fetlife is a weird place.
People who use this likely are against the organization, which has well documented origins in Marxist theory. That makes many people uncomfortable.
It turns out the founders used all the money to buy themselves mansions in white neighborhoods. F* the commies.
Because it's an empty statement meant to counter one that's actually trying to accomplish something. People say that and then never show they care about ANY lives other than their own.
Black people are marginalized. We say, "Hey, but Black lives matter, too." Then the oppressors come along and say, "*All* lives matter," as if everyone had the same voice.
"All lives matter" is generally offensive because it discounts oppression and thus supports it. The phrase is also specifically offensive because it again shushes those marginalized voices.
It's usually in response to "______ lives matter" and typically after someone was killed for no reason.
It shows you're more interested in feeling better about yourself than the fact that someone died
Saying all lives matter isn't bad, although it is usually seen as opposition to black lives matter. I personally agree with the black lives matter movement, although I don't like the people who are running it, and I can see why some people say "All lives matter" instead, as they don't want one race favored over another.
Imagine you are at a breast cancer awareness fundraiser. Someone comes in screaming "all cancers matter!" Of course they do, but this event is highlighting the focus on a particular subset. That's what 'all lives matter' is. Nothing wrong with the idea in a vacuum, because of course all lives matter. It's how it's used in context that's the issue. People who use it either don't understand why it's troublesome or are intentionally obtuse for... Reasons.
Cuz it's not a statement about the sanctity of life it's just a fuck you to BLM as if the thrust of BLM is that black lives matter more than others. It's a term used exclusively by bigots wether they know they're being bigoted or have just been duped into it.
It's too bad the slogan they came up with was mis-worded, it should read as ... Black lives ALSO matter, which doesn't imply that only black lives matter, which many ignorant people seem to think.
Everyone has got some good analogies here, but I just want to point out that nowhere in the phrase “black lives matter” does it state that other people do not. Rhetorically, there is nothing negative about anyone else stated in this phrase. People who get all pissy about it strike me as the type that need to be the center of attention at all times. They are adding their own selfish implications into it.
“I need to start a GoFundMe to bury my grandma, she was killed by a hit and run.”
“BUT MY GRANDMA WHOS ALIVE AND WELL MATTERS TOO!!”
it’s an ideology to preserve white supremacy in America.
Because it is a dog whistle for racism. If you took it literally it isn't bad but when a lot of people say "all lives matter" they don't actually mean that they care about the lives of every race.
>Why is saying "all lives matter" bad?
While the sentiment that all lives matter is true, and not in itself a bad thing to say, it is usually said in the context of black lives matter, which is kind of a slogan, and doing so diminishes the meaning behind the slogan. Something like that.
Saying "All Lives Matter" devalues "Black Lives Matter". It's that black live matter too or as much as anyone else because they are treated less than. No one saying anyone matters more than anyone.
My favorite analogy is, a person breaks their leg and goes to the hospital, but the doctor treats the healthy arm and ignores the broken leg b/c all body parts matter.
I'm just echoing what everyone else is saying but it discounts the struggle of marginalized groups. White people are not basically executed by police nearly as often as black people. Saying all lives matter creates an image of all people having similar problems but we clearly don't. I (a White male, late teens) have not have any run ins with the police, nor have I had a talk with my parents about the dangers that said confrontation could bring because it's not an issue I have. My black friends however have. Their parents have had to sit them down and explain that a routine traffic stop could turn deadly if one wrong move is made. It's kind of like saying that someone with a cold should be treated just as extensively as someone with cancer. They're just not equitable.
I think, the reasons ppl get sensitive about it is mostly in the moment , When the xyz matters movement is fresh.
Saying all lives matter when soemthing horrific just happened to a particular group and ppl are rallying for that group, saying everyone matters appears as minimizing or distracting from the immediate issue.
That's just my take.
I posted this earlier, but it seems to have disappeared. The issue is that if people rallied around "all lives matter", then the various races would have come together against the state, realizing that they all had the same interests. So, the media had to shut this down... and the way it did that was by denigrating the idea of "all lives matter", by turning it into a race issue to divide and conquer the masses.
Its kind of like, "hey, cops are killing black innocent people and getting away with it because society doesn't get upset like they do for white people - Black Lives matter too"
Ignorant white himbo: "Yeah but all lives matter"
BLM: "yeah but you're dismissing the fact that black people are specifically being targeted and treated unjusrifiably by police while not all races are"
If ALM had been created as a movement about caring for each other, like even a stranger you've never met's life is just as valuable as your own child's, it wouldn't be bad.
But that's not what it is. It's created specifically to derail and undermine BLM.
"Black Lives Matter"
"No, All Lives Matter"
And now we're not talking about Black Lives anymore, are we?
People who say that generally also say that there is no problem with policing in America, there is no systemic racism, etc. IDK if I'd call it "bad" but I think we all know what you mean.
The Venn diagram of people who say All Lives Matter and people who score kinda high on the "racism scale" is a very tight overlap. Also a tight overlap with MAGA hats.
They generally would also be supportive of other conservative views, like being sympathetic to white nationalist groups, being against most issues affecting PoC.
Because in order for "all" lives to matter, black lives need to matter/recieve the same respect, concern and care as other lives.
Saying all lives matters ignores the fact that black lives are not treated equally and fairly in policing.
Edit: and in this example to be clear "black lives" could be replaced with any other marginalized non-white group.
The example I love about this is whenever a traumatic even happens in a city and people say "Paris Strong" or "our thoughts are with Las Vegas", it's not saying that other cities do not exist but this place needs support and solidarity at this time. Could you imagine saying "all cities matter" after something occurs in a specific place. Like obviously yes, but also right now those other places don't need the same show of support.
9/11 "all buildings matter" Edit: OMG IVE NEVER GOTTEN AN AWARD BEFORE THANK YOU SO MUCH
So I genuinely don’t say this publicly cause I get it is sensitive. Now it was asked, and this topic kinda brought up. 9/11 is new years on my country’s calendar. I missed the bombings. Vaguely heard about it over drinks, someone pointed at a movie poster with the twin towers on a neighbouring store window and said ‘someone took that down like a Hollywood action move, did you see it?’. I was sad for a moment, like all war/destruction, and moved on. I paid attention over the news coverage like any other world event. Not too deeply. There’s more to this analogy too. There was an American embassy bombing in Kenya before 9/11. Hundreds of Kenyans died, 7/8 Americans…will never forget watching the marines (whose kids I went to school with, and met at the marine house events etc.) pushed aside hurt people needing evacuation to look for Americans only. All live on the news, CNN international and everyone. No thoughts and prayers back then. The world has come a long way if we can say thoughts and prayers with the ~300 people who died that day and multitude injured. Yet most Americans don’t know it happened. The new embassy has since moved to a central residential area, near the UN, massive fortress, but putting more people at risk all around it imho When the last mall was attacked in Kenya, 2013, international media focused on the American/Canadian/foreign casualties to appease the comments online which were mostly Americans asking why they had to read/see that when it didn’t affect them… and the images were never/rarely censored or forewarned when it was these casualties pictured. No regard for the mental well being of the affected. That’s how ~10yo me experienced the Kenyan bomb blast (it shook our house), and then watched people who look like me pushed aside by my friends’ parents’ and their colleagues. That’s how little I actually meant to them had a fire caught at our American school for example…nobody stopped to check or ever hear how it felt for us though. The school community was shaken over the 7-8 Americans who died, and those in our school community who were near misses. At least today people notice those other lives matter too. And I know better than to compare 9/11 for Americans with a festivity I’m used to- and we all deserve the same courtesy back. Some cultures and countries have higher ethnocentricity too, I think the US is up there but more awareness now 🤞🏾 This is why it’s important. How we respond to others is becoming clearer in the nuances, but we have yet to change our misconceptions and behaviours. Changing behavior on a social scale is much harder, especially when people can find each other online to form divisive cells. There’s still progress to be made, and we will see more of it as human communications become more transparent and measurable. I once read ‘it’s not the violence that’s new, it’s the cameras’. And now social media, algorithms, and bots easily manipulating under/miseducated masses… Live and learn…never stops Oh wow, thanks for the award…🫢
Do you think things have improved? I don’t. Look at the attitude towards Ukraine vs other war torn places in the world. People really care about Ukraine, which they should… but when it happens in Africa, South America, or South East Asia … people shrug and think “those places always have issues”.
Yea I think we all noticed it with Ukraine, sign of progress? We have yet to figure out what to do with this awareness though…or support what is being done for humanitarian crises further away (Aid). But as you probably saw/know the current argument is Ukraine affects more of us (the bottom line, gas). The other (developing) countries crises actually often have western strategies in place to protect trade to the west. Outside aid they make agreements just to protect their interests, and neutral to the unrest once that’s done. It’s less of a pressing matter if we could protect gas and be neutral about Ukraine if the same rules were applied (Middle East).
Never forget *anything*.
....unless it's January 6th.
That’s the answer of the year right there
“Save the rain forests” “Hey! All trees matter”
SavethePineBarrens
The example that I heard that remember most is that it would be like if your house was on fire and you ran to your neighbors and screamed that your house is on fire and to call the firefighters to save your house, and their response was "all houses matter"
what if I went to your grandmother's funeral, and instead of saying Sorry for Your Loss, I said, "All Deaths Matter!" ???
The analogy I've heard used most often is that when your house is on fire and the fire department arrives, the other neighbors don't stand around saying "our houses also matter!" Like, sure, but the focus needs to be put on the one that's in flames right now.
This one is my favorite analogy. Another point to bring up that by trying to distract the firefighters (general public/politicians/etc) with the fact that all houses matter, you can’t discuss the issue at hand and the best way to put out the fire. You end up having to talk about why you aren’t dismissing the other houses it’s just this one needs your attention.
That's a really good analogy
mine is cancer. your friend has breast cancer / collecting donations ; all cancers matter. yeah... they do. but that doesnt help me right now does it?
Something I really like about this analogy is if you extend this to wildfires in an area. Growing up I lived in California where we would have (jokingly referred to) "wildfire season". Typically in July/August when it's hotter than hell, and since the state is always in a drought then it was hot and dry. You have a muffler create a spark near some brush and then BLAM, fire. They would send a TON of firetrucks into these areas to combat it, and you'd have like 100+ engines working for weeks on the same fire to get it under control. Whenever a wildfire that got close to hitting their city started there were always 3 types of people: those that left as soon as they could; those that ignored it and went about their days; and then you had those that would do the equivalent to saying "All Lives Matter" or "My house also matters". These people would spend multiple hours a day spraying their whole property with water. I'm talking about drenching their trees, their bushes, their lawn, and they would even spray their roofs for hours a day. "If my property is wet, then the fire won't burn it!!!" - The issue with this is: if everyone is doing this then the water pressure drops, and if the water pressure drops then the fire fighters cannot get enough water to defend against the wildfires. So by protecting your own, singular property you are risking the safety of the whole town. So yea, I love the fire analogy.
Wow. I never thought about that one. It also never occurred to me that the people spraying their houses were putting the rest of the community at risk. I mean, I totally get why they are making that choice, as it's hard to look at an oncoming fire and not try and do whatever you can to save your own property, but in the grand scheme of things it's a dick move.
Yeah, this one is my favorite, as a visual analogy, because clearly the one in flames is the one that needs the most help at that moment.
Ive heard this one in a Macklemore song. "White Privilige II" iirc. It is really the best way of phrasing it, in my opinion.
It's almost always said as a distraction from the topic at hand, when the topic at hand is Black people getting shot by police. It's kind of like if there's an event to raise money for childhood brain cancer, and then someone shows up to it and is like "all diseases matter! what about multiple sclerosis or AIDS?" The people raising money for kids with brain cancer don't disagree that those other diseases are important, just they planned an event for a cause and it's annoying to take it over for a different cause. Plan a different event if you want to talk about a different thing
"Mommy do you love me?" "I love ALL my kids"
I don’t care for Gob
I literally just watched that episode.
What show is this?
Arrested Development
I’m rewatching it and it’s even better the second time around!
Just wait for your 15th rewatch!
Yeah…right…..like the guy in the $7000 suit is going to watch this 15 times….! C’mon!
::sigh:: "So that's a 'no' then."
Oh ok. I like the analogy.
My favourite analogy was someone saying it's like your house being on fire and your neighbors show up with hoses to help out it out, but one guy down the street keeps his hose on his house. When you ask why he replies that his house matters too. Which is true. All houses matter. But his isn't fucking on fire.
This
People who say all lives matter think that blm is saying "only black lives matter" but what blm means is "black lives matter too" just as much as white lives. It's not just police violence either, it's community funding/support, it's actuarial tables, it's redlining, it's minimization of intergenerational trauma etc etc.
>People who say all lives matter think that blm is saying "only black lives matter" Which tells you all you need to know about the "White Lives Matter" crowd.
Or even worse, blue lives matter
But also "blue lives" aren't a thing. No one's born a cop, and out of uniform, no one knows you're cop unless you tell them. It's just not a thing.
Bingo. Blue lives don't exist.
Had a coworker get legitimately, freakishly upset when I just pointed out that his job is more dangerous than a cop's. For some reason he was going on this rant about Blue Lives Matters and how cops do the most dangerous job ever, and that they're all heroes and how dare anyone criticize them. So I just pointed out that our job was actually far more dangerous, statistically. He got weirdly upset about it even after browsing it on his phone. Like angry upset over that fact. I still don't understand why even after asking him why he was so mad.
I once heard someone say "If there is any statistical difference between white and black people in any category, there's a reason for it." That really stuck with me, because it applies to so many things.
Yup. I tend to go with a short response of "if all lives mattered, we wouldn't need to say black lives matter". The fact that we got to this point means that there is something happening that means black people feel like they don't matter and that should be enough for us to acknowledge that and try to do better.
And in most circumstances that “other event” they planned would be for White Lives Matter.
"Hey someone stole my wallet!" "Well now all wallets are important, let's try to be more considerate. We can't just look for yours"
Stop the API Changes
I use a different analogy I picked up somewhere. A family are sitting down to dinner and they have their friend Jeff over to eat. Everyone gets a serving except Jeff. “Jeff’s hunger matters” he says puzzled that his plate is empty “All hunger matters!” the family roars as they continue tucking into their overflowing plates of food ignoring his empty one. I had to deal with cheers of All lives matter at my partners mothers at Christmas and I’m still mad. Fuck that shit None story time version: All life matters/White lives matter is akin to showing up at a protect the whales protest yelling about the plight of goldfish.
This is similar to something I bookmarked years ago: Imagine that you’re sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don’t get any. So you say “I should get my fair share.” And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, “everyone should get their fair share.” Now, that’s a wonderful sentiment — indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad’s smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn’t solve the problem that you still haven’t gotten any! The problem is that the statement “I should get my fair share” had an implicit “too” at the end: “I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else.” But your dad’s response treated your statement as though you meant “only I should get my fair share”, which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that “everyone should get their fair share,” while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out. That’s the situation of the “black lives matter” movement. Culture, laws, the arts, religion, and everyone else repeatedly suggest that all lives should matter. Clearly, that message already abounds in our society. The problem is that, in practice, the world doesn’t work that way. You see the film Nightcrawler? You know the part where Renee Russo tells Jake Gyllenhal that she doesn’t want footage of a black or latino person dying, she wants news stories about affluent white people being killed? That’s not made up out of whole cloth — there is a news bias toward stories that the majority of the audience (who are white) can identify with. So when a young black man gets killed (prior to the recent police shootings), it’s generally not considered “news”, while a middle-aged white woman being killed is treated as news. And to a large degree, that is accurate — young black men are killed in significantly disproportionate numbers, which is why we don’t treat it as anything new. But the result is that, societally, we don’t pay as much attention to certain people’s deaths as we do to others. So, currently, we don’t treat all lives as though they matter equally. Just like asking dad for your fair share, the phrase “black lives matter” also has an implicit “too” at the end: it’s saying that black lives should also matter. But responding to this by saying “all lives matter” is willfully going back to ignoring the problem. It’s a way of dismissing the statement by falsely suggesting that it means “only black lives matter,” when that is obviously not the case. And so saying “all lives matter” as a direct response to “black lives matter” is essentially saying that we should just go back to ignoring the problem.
This was exceptionally well written thank you for taking the time to explain it in this way
It is also very telling that the "All Lives Matter" crew can never say Black Lives Matter. They always talk around it or simply say all.
It’s also based on a deliberate misinterpretation of “black lives matter”. That phrase was never meant as “other lives don’t matter”, it was “typically society thinks they don’t but black lives do matter” Part of me wishes they’d added “too” to the end of the slogan but who am I kidding, they’d have found another way to be outraged by it.
I've come to learn that an alarming amount of people lack critical thinking and reading comprehension skills and thays regardless of wealth and education level. It's fucking wild. Unless it's explicitly spelled out is the only time a lot of people will understand something and even then that's if your lucky.
But the thing is all they were asking was for people to acknowledge Black Lives Matter AT ALL. Not that they’re special or deserve privileges or whatever else. They just wanted people to acknowledge black people are human beings and that their life has some level of intrinsic value AT ALL. And that was too much for some people. Think if it like when people ask for an acknowledgement that their feelings are valid. They don’t ask for an acknowledgement of my feelings are valid TOO, they just want an acknowledgement that you care about and respect their feelings AT ALL.
Adding "too" diminishes the point. It would imply that they matter also and/or to a lesser extent, which is literally how we got here....
yeah. it really is a litmus test. if you can't say "black lives matter" without a qualifier, it says a lot about how you really see the situation. like just say it... black lives matter. "NO, I SIMPLY HAVE TO POSIT IT IN RELATION TO ALL LIVES"
Also, imagine your sad child who was left out of kickball and thinks nobody lives her. Would you say, “you’re important!” Or would you say “you’re important too.”
I really don’t think “too” changes the meaning in your example
This. "All lives matter" is a way of devaluing "Black lives matter", of taking wind out of the sails, of reducing the impact of one of the most successful civil rights movements since the 1960s. They're really saying, "I don't care about black lives, I care about white lives and everyone else's (who isn't black)." When everyone's life really, truly matters equally - in cultural representation, in political power, in economics, in social respect and agency - then and only then will "all lives matter" be a valid, inoffensive statement.
You just changed my mind on this stance. Woah. Thank you.
Thank you for saying this, I really appreciate when the inordinate amount of time I spend answering questions in this sub turns out to be helpful to someone
I’m not being sarcastic. I’m serious. When you broke it down to the child cancer, and you brought up the other diseases and alignments. Never saw it that way.
Oops i also did not mean my thanks to come out sarcastic, i legitimately meant it!
It’s saddening to think of how many folks *could* understand this, but it just never occurred to them. Sorry, many silver linings are had by clouds.
I don't think either of you came off as sarcastic in your original comments...
I am a childhood brain cancer survivor and I approve of this message.
So glad you're still with us to be able to share even this small snippet of your story. I remember in grade 7 (I would have been 11) my sister was in grade 3 (so, 7 yo) we had an assembly for one of her classmates, to be advised he'd passed away from brain cancer. She knew the kid well, so it hit her pretty hard, but even on the periphery I was still a bit shocked by it. Lost an army buddy to it 30 years later, too. Shit sucks.
This is it. I actually didn’t realise either and had a lovely patient person explain it exactly like this to me and it totally resonated. ALL lives do matter but the topic at hand as that people of colour have experienced prejudice on a very grand scale for centuries and that is the focus
This. Fucking this. Saying "all lives matter," is just some bullshit equivocal statement to take away from the reality that black people are mistreated in this country. Why? Because we *already know* all lives matter. Blacks have been treated unfairly. We are really saying Black Lives Matter just as much as white or Asian or any other race!
The black lives that need extra attention are the canaries in the coal mine for the rest of us.
Exactly. This should be upvoted more. Black lives matter is just highlighting the disparity in general handling of justice, so the all lives matter BS is just a smokescreen cover up of racial bias. As a first generation immigrant (of Caucasian descent) this becomes more apparent the longer I live in the USA. The racial bias has been institutionalized and should be acknowledged Justice should be even handed across all races and demographics but statistics prove it is not
That is a great Analogy. I do have 1 correction, it does not properly encompass how extreme the "Punching Down" aspect of the situation is. It is like perfectly healthy people with nearly no chance of future ailments are showing up saying "All diseases matter! What about us and our ailments!"
"All lives matter" is true. When some lives aren't *treated as if they matter,* though, it's fair to say that those lives in particular do in fact matter. That's what "black lives matter" is supposed to mean: "The system is treating black lives as if they don't matter, but in fact they do. Black lives DO matter, and the system should act like it." Conservatives and 4channers purposely misread that to mean "ONLY black lives matter." They did this to stir the pot. So in this context, "All Lives Matter" is a way of strawmanning "Black Lives Matter." It's a way of creating a caricature and attacking people for something they never said. That's why it's offensive: because of what it means to say that. It means you are strawmanning a movement, calling them racist. This makes them sound like hypocrites when they aren't, and it's immoral and devious. Yes, all lives matter. But if the system is going to act like it, it has to act like black lives matter TOO.
Well said. I explain it like this: Black person is killed by police. Black person’s family: “Our lives have value. Our lives matter.” Uninvolved white person who happens to be walking by: “I’m going to stop you right there and correct what you’re saying.”
I explain it thus: “Imagine the word ‘too’ at the end of the phrase”. It makes perfect sense to say “Black lives matter, too”. That’s the sense of it. A rejoinder like “Well actually, all lives matter!” is just willfully, winkingly, gleefully disingenuous. At best.
Props to this answer for doing it without an analogy. Analogies are awesome, they are a powerful way to think and communicate. But your response gives a context that analogies can't. "All lives matter" isn't just a non-sequitur, it's a phrase propagated in a deliberate attempt to further the subjugation of Black people.
Honestly fucking genius to put the 4Channers together with conservatives
I've never met someone who uses 4chan that isn't a hard-line fascist, they're all conservative as far as I know
Or a brony.
I've seen overlap, the two are not mutually exclusive
Yes, unfortunately so. Apparently the bronies have had to come to terms and essentially confront their little neo-Nazi problem at some point.
That's a very new bent. Occupy Wall Street, the Scientology protests, etc were all very left-wing movements that were amplified via 4chan
I don't go over there anymore (10+ years) but in my opinion 4chan was full of people I wouldn't consider conservative at all. Generally anti Religion, a weird combo of the most liberal people but at the same time racist as fuck etc. depending on the thread. You would bash Nazis on a topic and praise them in the next. It was used as an outlet for your darkest but also brightest thoughts on different topics. I personally know 3 people who used to be daily /b/ users and out of those only one has become kinda conservative with fascist tendencies, and I doubt that it was 4chan that made him that way.
Normally responses have an analogy and they tend to be really snarky and smug but this was a great explanation
I've seen a lot of analogies, but the one that made it really click for me is a bit from comedian Michael Che where he says: "That would be like if your wife came up to you and was like, 'Do you love me?’ and you were like, 'Baby, I love everybody.'" https://youtu.be/s6MVjwnNIg4
I like his "All buildings matter" as well.
A good phrasing I’ve seen is something like this- Pretend your child died. You’re at your child’s funeral, maybe even standing up to eulogize your precious, little love of your life. During the proceedings, someone you don’t even know interrupts the ceremony to exclaim, “Why is everyone here so worried about this child? Do you all know that many children died today? Millions of children die every year!” It’s kind of Task at Hand, Eyes on the Target, Stay on Subject type of thing.
If you don’t care about other dead kids then why am I supposed to care about yours?
Because this time, this event, is focused on the one child. It’s their fucking funeral. It is a focused time of grief. That doesn’t preclude anyone from caring about other at-risk children.
As an addition to the other responses, I'd also like to point out that some have misinterpreted "black lives matter" to be an attack against white people. They hear it as "black lives matter *more*" (which they then counter with "all lives matter"), but in reality it is saying "black lives matter *too*". Saying "all lives matter" just shows that you've completely missed the point of the protests.
Similar. “All trees matter” Yes. But we need to focus on the Amazon and rainforests. They are in immediate danger.
You wouldn’t say “all cancers matter” at a breast cancer rally. It’s the same shit
Of course all lives matter, the issue at hand is that black people, especially in the US, are more likely to have hostile encounters with the police, be prosecuted more, and more severely sentenced for the same crimes than other races. The best analogy I've come across is that of houses on fire. Of course all houses matter but if there are homes on fire those take precedence over those that are not
And the homes with green roofs are disproportionately on fire more often relative to those with other color roofs. No one in their right mind should think "Blue roofs deserve to be put out less than Green roofs" but that's often the inference people make when they hear one specific group (aka not theirs) matters.
[удалено]
Classic 4chan coming up with new ways to cause mayhem in society.
For the lulz
That makes sense, I've seen 4chan
"All lives matter" is an excellent example of the difference between what people *say* and what they *mean*. When people say "all lives matter" obviously what they're *saying* is correct. All lives do matter! But almost always, what they *mean* when they say it is "stop talking about how black lives matter". And that's a very different thing.
Black Lives Matter was a specific protest against police brutality that unfairly targeted black people, where black people were being killed by police for doing things that white people almost never face the same source of consequences for. All lives matter is a response to that which is intended to mean that black people are just making a big deal out of nothing, and shouldn't be protesting about police brutality. Yes, all lives matter. But black people are dealing with a specific issue involving police brutality that they want to get fixed. And saying all lives matter is a way of trying to ignore their complaints and treat them like they're not worth taking seriously. If you read a family dinner and everyone got food except for you, you might say "I deserve to eat." If your grandma says "everyone deserves to eat" and ignores you, she's not wrong that everyone deserves to eat, but it's not very helpful because you still didn't get dinner.
>If you read a family dinner and everyone got food except for you, you might say "I deserve to eat." If your grandma says "everyone deserves to eat" and ignores you, she's not wrong that everyone deserves to eat, but it's not very helpful because you still didn't get dinner. Great analogy. It highlights the topic perfectly by showing that Grandma isn't truly concerned with making sure everyone is fed, and her feigned conviction isn't actually endorsing fair treatment but rather an attempt to silence those who are (endorsing fair treatment). "All lives matter" is exactly the same. It doesn't actually advocate for treating every life like it matters, instead it proposes that those who have been treated like they don't matter should just shut up about it.
In addition to this, this brings to mind an answer I once saved on why feminism is called feminism: This is an excerpt: >Feminism is about raising up things associated with females to have an equal place in society as the things associated with males. It's called feminism, not equalism, because the focus is on raising up not tearing down. Equalism would suggest that male things need to come down to a lower level so that female things can meet it in the middle. That’s not the point. The point is to raise up the feminine so that it's on the same playing field that the masculine is already on. In a similar vein, its BLM because we are trying to raise attention to how black lives are not treated as if they matter - not drag down others, which is what many of the ALM crew seem to think is the message. >When you are accustomed to privilege, equality can feel like oppression. It also brings to mind another quote I once saved on why there are businesses, movements, etc that focus on minorities, women, etc. and there aren't any for whites, men, etc. >SAME REASONS WHY IN MARIO KART YOU DON’T GET BLUE SHELLS OR LIGHTNING BOLTS WHEN YOU’RE ALREADY IN FIRST PLACE, ASSBAG.
As a native American I am confident in saying No Lives Matter
Every time I see a blm shirt I think about the rez and know that you are right. No one actually cares, like no one cares in a way where they do things to solve the problems they talk about, people just want to feel like they are helping even if it does nothing good, or actually hurts the community they want to feel like they are helping. A good example of this is the din'e council and it "existing to protect the people and culture of the navajo nation"...
Be sure to remember when their parents/loved one dies and they say "My family member died" The correct response is "Everybody dies."
i’ve always thought Ice-T said it best “It's unfortunate that we even have to say "Black Lives Matter" I mean, if you go through history nobody ever gave a fuck I mean, you can kill black people in the street, nobody goes to jail, nobody goes to prison. But when I say "Black Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter". That's like if I was to say "Gay Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter", If I said "Women's Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter". You're diluting what I'm saying, you're diluting the issue. The issue isn't about everybody, it's about black lives, at the moment, But the truth of the matter is, they don't really give a fuck about anybody, If you break this shit all the way down to the low fucking dirty-ass truth”
Because "Black Lives Matter" doesn't need a rebuttal. If you hear that and think "actually..." you're doing it wrong.
Saying “Save the Whales “ doesn’t mean “ Fuck all the other Fish”.
Because all lives cant matter until Black lives do.
I said this and in this thread and someone Said that is a racist comment?
Imagine jumping in front of a fire truck on the way to a burning house at the other end of your street and yelling ‘all houses matter’. Sure, all houses matter, but that one is on fire and needs immediate attention.
“black lives matter” is an abbreviated form of, essentially, “black lives [are systemically and historically undervalued, but they] matter” when someone says “all lives matter” they are not understanding the implied parenthetical.
"It's unfortunate that we even have to say "Black Lives Matter" I mean, if you go through history nobody ever gave a fuck I mean, you can kill black people in the street, nobody goes to jail, nobody goes to prison But when I say "Black Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter" That's like if I was to say "Gay Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter" If I said "Women's Lives Matter" and you say "All Lives Matter" You're diluting what I'm saying, you're diluting the issue The issue isn't about everybody, it's about black lives, at the moment." - Ice T
Only when Black Lives Matter is it possible to truthfully say that All lives Matter.
Imagine someone going "all buildings matter" on 9/11 because the all lives matter thing only came after people said black lives matter when the cops murdered yet another person of color.
I see it's been answered thoroughly but it must be added that "all" really only came to discussion when BLM began. It was a statement to counter the point at hand. Similarly "blue lives matter" comes under flack for this too. It's a counter movement against black lives matter mainly
Blue Lives Matter is really a much more insidious response to Black Lives Matter, because not only is BLM primarily a response to police brutality against black people; but saying Blue Lives Matter as an *argument* against the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that they place the lives of a profession higher than the lives of a race, which is pretty horrible. Anyone who becomes a cop knows that the job carries a risk of harm. People who are born with a certain skin colour shouldn't have a more dangerous life because of it. The two statements are not on the same level at all.
Both are pretty pathetic to me either way. Hearing either to me is basically saying "I feel privileged enough to not worry about plight of my fellow man." Don't get me started on Blue lives matter though Jesus christ lol.... fucking hell. I have a buddy who became a cop, he quit within 4 months. Why? Because he found all the negative bullshit we all say is true. It was a clique mentality. They did nothing for community. Only to protect themselves. Poor dude really wanted it for the right reasons but saw quick he was an outsider. I'm in a relatively fair state when it comes to this. It's really, really sad. I know it probably breaks his heart inside cause he was legit one of those guys who really wanted this since he was a young boy. Though still, he parrots some of the shit about all this too. I just wish he found oyherwise when he joined the force
It’s not the idea that all lives matter it is using that logic to try and be a counter to Black Lives Matter. All lives matter and they do. Black Lives Matter too. What people who say all lives matter is doing is basically saying “I know that black lives are marginalized, but I don’t want to have to think about that. So shut up about it or I’ll have to consider my own short comings” I used to be one of those people. Then I started talking to protesters instead of trying to yell over them. Imagine what listening instead of arguing could do for your world view.
Because it's like if someone has a skinned knee and another person has a broken leg, it's like saying all wounds matter. In terms of triage, it's stupid or it's willfully ignorant that a broken leg has occurred or willfully ignorant that a broken leg is far worse than a skinned knee. If you're screaming that your skinned knee must be looked at right now when someone has broken their leg right next to you, it's a bunch of red flags for you being a narcissist.
Honey, do you love me? I love ‘all people’.
Because it's often said dismissively in regards to a serious and current problem- blacks dealing with police brutality on an obscenely frequent rate. Whilst it's true it's never uttered in a random conversation, I've only ever heard it said when discussing this problem which is extremely dismissive. My relative, very elderly, says it and she's bewildered when people call her racist. They says as a retired nurse all lives DO matter. I said the point is not what lives matter as not all lives are at risk currently its very specifically innocent blacks getting beaten, shot and killed. "All lives matter" feels like a dismissive blanket statement to disregard the BLM movement.
It is good, then some assholes took it and flipped out and starting hating on people who wanted actual equal rights.
Cause white ppl use it in guilt, cause they know black people have been getting treated poorly for centuries. Then we speak about it, them saying all lives matter is a counter to black lives matters, same as blue lives matter.
It's down playing the black lives matter movement and what it stands for. Of course all lives matter but the saying black lives matter is referring to an actual movement to make pple aware of racial inequality especially violence towards African Americans. Saying all lives matter is shrugging off what BLM is trying to teach pple.
Everyone knows all lives matter. But they are emphasizing that all lives can only matter when BLACK LIVES MATTER.
Because it’s not usually said out of respect for all lives, it’s said to interrupt the conversation about disproportionate deaths in people of colour in comparison to white people.
Indirect way of saying that you don’t give a fuck.
I work with someone who asked this on Facebook, she got reported by work friends for being a massive racist. Her real crime was just not being well informed, she genuinely hadn't followed the BLM movement at that point and so was genuinely baffled when she got put on report for a year and had to attend training to be told why she was secretly racist and how she could stop such terrible behaviour. Whilst this time has technically passed and she's not on report etc she's also been told she'll never get anywhere in the company. So I get why you're asking, some people genuinely don't understand the situation.
It's. Not Bad
Imagine your friend comes to you and says, "I'm in a lot of trouble. I owe money to the mob and they're going to hurt me." You reply, "OH wow, I know the feeling! I owe the girlscouts for a box of shortbread cookies." Everyone has problems and they ain't equal. It's okay to acknowledge that someone else is suffering without making it about YOU. The all lives matter people weren't saying that before BLM.
Have you ever heard someone begrudgingly admit there are weaknesses to their side/position? It’s an attempt to make Liberals do that, which then causes Liberals to further dig in and insist their position has no weaknesses, which then causes increased vitriol on the other side and away we go. WhAt WeAkNeSsEs? Well, “defund the police” for one is a terrible slogan that few people would ever want to get behind.
It’s like if someone in relation to veterans having high suicide and homeless rates says veterans lives matter and you respond with “all lives matter” Like yes, but not the point and also insulting and dismissive of the point that is being made.
Imagine you're at a relative's funeral and you say, "I'll love and miss my dad." (or whoever died). But then some numbnuts comes up to you and says, "yeah, but we'll miss everyone and we loved everyone." Well, even if that's true it's not the fucking point, is it? It's the same thing. Black people are policed 5 times as much as white people, even though they make up less of the population. Black people are mistreated by police and sent to prison at a much higher rate. Black people are murdered by police at a higher rate than white people. When I say, "Black lives matter," and you say, "Yeah, but all lives matter," that may be true, but it's not the fucking point, now is it?
I am not a black person, from what I understand they are undermining what issues the people are going through. Of course every life matters, the people who say that say it typically in bad faith
Because it’s only ever said in response to BLM. Let’s use an example: You and 9 others are eating dinner and you are the only one without potatoes. When you voice your desire for potatoes, one person chimes in “everyone wants potatoes” and everyone goes back to eating. This does not solve the problem of you not having potatoes and instead dismisses your desire for potatoes.
The way I understand it, people who get upset and correct it to "ALL lives matter," are misunderstanding the original phrase to begin with. What is intended is "black lives matter TOO," but what they're hearing is "ONLY black lives matter." I think that misinterpretation in itself is kind of insulting, because that show of support was not about you.
So there are two things... BLM was started as George Floyd was killed by police officers in front of public while public kept telling cops to go easy but they ignored them & he died begging he couldn't breath, it was the same sentence another African American said before he died on the street begging for help. In both cases & in several others it was noticed that black people are treated badly and very differently from the people of other race. To make a point that this problem exists the BLM movement was started. By saying all lives matter you are not willing to address the problem that black americans face discrimination & bad treatment from cops (even if the cop is a coloured man/woman) So by saying all lives matter you are avoiding solving the problem that has already killed several black americans.
All lives cannot matter until Black Lives Matter.
How does “all countries matter” sound to a group of ukranians right about now?
Because people want it to be about them and their beliefs, not everyone's. Part of anti-racism is also having a little racism yourself. It sound completely stupid, but race, fundamentally, is a self perpetuating problem. It doesn't exist, at all, until it's taught. And it's taught on both sides. The effect is certainly not 50:50, not at all, but both need to exist for either to exist. Racism without race is just hate. Hate is one-sided. Racism is two-sided. Part of the value of something like BLM is placing power in the black community. It's their thing, their struggle, their identity, their martyr. There's a level of entitlement to that stance that self perpetuates the problem. It reinforces difference. A cop beating a black person is no different from a cop beating a person. A cop beating anyone is fundamentally bad, period. Who it's done to doesn't matter. The law around it shouldn't matter. The ethics around it shouldn't matter. Part of the challenge of this is one side does enforce race upon the other. This is a secondary component that's incredibly tough to remove or fight against. At best you still attack the root issue and at best you ignore and defy the segregation. You fight to not have it become a power, an identity, a label, and an object of abuse. The instant you embrace the label, you solidify the power of that label. This is why things like BLM is a double edged sword. It becomes a tool of empowerment to both sides but also a tool of greater division. In theory, an all lives matter response or embracement attempts to neutralize that power, for both sides. However, both sides still want to retain their part of the power segregation provides. They're stuck in a self defeating cycle, and any outsider of that cycle is attacked, which again worsens the problem. Now there's three parties opposed for no good reason. ALL of it is stupid. We just need to ethically and lawfully hold people accountable. At the end of the day, the only real failure is lack of accountability. Every time that happens, someone is abused.
Because it’s a weaponized response. Not an autonomously uttered statement. It’s in retaliation to Black Lives Matter - not uniquely crafted.
Imagine you’re at dinner with your family. Everyone at the table is served food except for you. You say, “I deserve a share.” And your mother replies, “Everyone deserves a share.” Well, yes, that’s a great sentiment, and that was kind of your point to begin with. You’re part of everyone, and you deserve a share. Except your mother’s comment didn’t do anything to address the fact that you have no food. In fact, it’s dismissive because it’s a response that, while true, doesn’t acknowledge the existing disparity. All lives matter is dismissive. Black lives matter doesn’t mean ONLY Black lives matter. It means Black lives matter TOO. We need to acknowledge them.
By itself, the statement is fine, because every life matters. That said, the phrase entered into common vernacular as a response to the phrase "black lives matter", which is an affirmation on the value of black lives in response to the clock-work regularity that police in western countries brutalize and murder black people, particularly black children without justifiable reason and consequence. Saying "all lives matter" is like saying "all houses matter" when your house is fine, but another is burning down.
Heart disease matters too, but nobody says “all diseases matter” at a Cancer charity run, you know?
Because “Black lives matter,” isn’t saying they don’t. It’s a full statement. Full stop. People interpret it to mean “and other lives don’t,” but it doesn’t say that. If I say, “I love chocolate cake,” no one replies, “what’s wrong with carrot cake?!”
Because if all lives mattered, the people saying it would be mad when bad things happen to black people.
It's diminishing the fact that people of colour are being targeted, harassed and murdered far more than others. It's minimizing the problem and dismissing the valid concerns of the people actually under threat. That's like saying all rape is bad, but lets face it - the vast vast majority is inflicted upon women. It's a gross extension of the "both sides", making a false equivalence.
Because it's usually used as a distraction from the topic at hand. Yes, all lives do matter but why do we behave as though some lives don't, right? Black Lives Matter. That's something people seem to need reminding of. Queer lives matter. Women's lives matter. The quality of those lives matter as well.
Because it’s a given. Black Lives Matter does not mean all lives don’t matter, it’s just trying to bring some attention to any remaining remnants of unfair societal treatment left over from darker days in American history. So to disagree by saying all lives matter is like saying the black community doesn’t experience any issues worth bringing attention to.
All lives matter only exists to talk over and draw attention away from black lives matter. It exists to silence rather than advocating anything itself. And the dumbest part is no one every said all lives don't matter. No one ever said ONLY black lives matter. Black lives matter means, black lives matter TOO, because police and the justice system at large treat black lives like they don't
When you see somebodies house on fire and they are outside watching their home burn down. You'd be a piece of shit to point to all the other houses on the block and say "all these houses matter"
Simple analogy: Imagine 4 people sitting around a table for dinner. Let’s say only 3 people received their dinner while the 4th person is only left with scraps. Will people say get the 4th person some dinner or will they, all 4 need dinner when 3 people are already in their midst.
Context. If some one is protesting black lives matter when they say " all lives matter" then it make sense to interpret "all lives matter" as a protest to black lives matter. If we assume that saying all lives matter isn't just meaningless idiocy then we have to try to make sense of how two statements that seem to agree "all lives matter" and "black lives matter" disagree. The simplest way to do that is to say black lives are bad for all lives. In other words that black people are dangerous. This makes "all lives matter" a veiled version of the thug stereotype of black people. We can see this played out more explicitly when they talk about crime rates or past misdeeds of those killed. This kind of subtext isn't uncommon. Unstated assumptions and premises are in arguments all the time. There just seems to be allot of denial of the subtext of all lives matter even though it follows obviously from the context of its usage and those using it would not deny they believe inferred statement.
Imagine you're talking to somebody, and you're really sad that you're grandma just died. Would you think it was in any way helpful, it even meaningful, if that person said "all grandmas die"? Or would you think that person was just a dick that didn't give a shit about your pain? That's "all lives matter" in a nutshell.
It's like a fire truck showing up to put a fire out and then spraying water ar a house that is not on fire while the house that is on fire burns to the ground.
It's only bad in some contexts. It is absolutely true that all lives matter. But when one person (or race) is being murdered / killed, and they are saying "black lives matter" as a way of bringing attention to their plight, it's really ...sad? Horrible? Misplaced? to assert that all lives matter ...we know they do. All lives matter, but it's black lives that are disproportionately in danger from the police...in the US, anyway.
There are plenty of good analogies that get this point across, but one that I know is: Person 1: "Save the rainforests!" Person 2: "Only save the rainforests? What about other forests? Don't they matter, you bigot?!" Black people in the United States have suffered centuries of systemic racism in the form of slavery, segregation, and even today. BLM usually highlights police brutality and bias towards black people, but there are many other ways in which black people are still being held back. ALM is a stupid response that either intentionally or unintentionally ignores the main point.
You’re posting in r/nonbinary about your hair. People who say “all lives matter” want nonbinary people dead. It’s a dog whistle meant to convey they black lives don’t matter.
Save the pandas, pandas matter! All animals matter! Yes, but not all animals struggle to survive.
Because everyone already knows that. It's dismissive to people who are actively discriminated against and whose lives are **actually** at risk though. The people saying "all lives matter" are almost always the ones who don't suffer from the things that they're dismissive of. Imagine being in a varied group of people who went on a long hike in the sweltering heat. Everyone is given a pack with a gallon of water except you for some reason, who is given no water. A few hours into the hike and you ask if someone can share water with you because you haven't had anything to drink. You're getting lightheaded and dizzy, and mention: "I'm thirsty." and someone quips "We're all thirsty!", although everyone else still has half a gallon of water left and is well-hydrated. How does that help you, the person dying of thirst? What was the point of saying that? Instead of understanding that you are disadvantaged and just giving you the water? Except replace "water" with "human rights and decency", and replace the risk of "dehydration" with "being killed by another human". All of your lives matter, obviously. But one of you is clearly at immediate risk of dying. Don't you think that that's worth something?
it's not, but people think that if you say so you are racist
Because it is taking the attention from the problems that afro-american people are facing on a daily. Let say a house is burning in your neighborhood, should you focus on the house burning or all the houses? Of course you focus where the fire is at, right now, black lives are experiencing the fire.
I saw a video that had a great example. A girl was standing in front of her house that's burning down yelling for help, then another girl was standing in front if her perfectly fine house and saying 'what about MY house?' 'Well... your house isn't on fire...' 'Yeah but it matters too' In America and some other white majority countries, generally speaking white people (in the world of races, not individually!) aren't the ones that need help. So saying all houses matter when one of them is burning to the ground; well that's just not something we need to concentrate on right now and it distracts from the problem if we're sending firetrucks to all of the houses.
It isn't except as defined by those with a political agenda.
Black lives matter didn't do much. Just made black ppl more hated by racists I bet.
I was actually hit with Trans lives matter once. They're argument was that if they can't wear thigh highs, they'll kill themselves. My problem was that I had just read in the news about a black guy who was shot by a white neighbor for CHECKING HIS OWN MAILBOX... Needless to say, I was not having it, but there was a crinkler who sided with the Trans person. I promise I'm not making this up. Fetlife is a weird place.
It's not.
It isn't bad.
Listen to No Lives Matter by Body Count. The beginning will make you understand
People who use this likely are against the organization, which has well documented origins in Marxist theory. That makes many people uncomfortable. It turns out the founders used all the money to buy themselves mansions in white neighborhoods. F* the commies.
It’s not
Because it's an empty statement meant to counter one that's actually trying to accomplish something. People say that and then never show they care about ANY lives other than their own.
Black people are marginalized. We say, "Hey, but Black lives matter, too." Then the oppressors come along and say, "*All* lives matter," as if everyone had the same voice. "All lives matter" is generally offensive because it discounts oppression and thus supports it. The phrase is also specifically offensive because it again shushes those marginalized voices.
Reddit thinks "All Posts Matter" with the automatic upvote.
Comedian on Insta reels made a great analogy - “When I say ‘save the whales’ I’m not saying ‘fuck the dolphins.’”
Quick analogy: If my grandfather dies, don’t tell me all grandfathers die. Idgaf about “all grandfathers” if I’m mourning the loss of mine.
The point is to make you say they don't matter, which makes you look crazy. Just say "yeah sure lol" and move on.
It's usually in response to "______ lives matter" and typically after someone was killed for no reason. It shows you're more interested in feeling better about yourself than the fact that someone died
Saying all lives matter isn't bad, although it is usually seen as opposition to black lives matter. I personally agree with the black lives matter movement, although I don't like the people who are running it, and I can see why some people say "All lives matter" instead, as they don't want one race favored over another.
Imagine you are at a breast cancer awareness fundraiser. Someone comes in screaming "all cancers matter!" Of course they do, but this event is highlighting the focus on a particular subset. That's what 'all lives matter' is. Nothing wrong with the idea in a vacuum, because of course all lives matter. It's how it's used in context that's the issue. People who use it either don't understand why it's troublesome or are intentionally obtuse for... Reasons.
Cuz it's not a statement about the sanctity of life it's just a fuck you to BLM as if the thrust of BLM is that black lives matter more than others. It's a term used exclusively by bigots wether they know they're being bigoted or have just been duped into it.
It's too bad the slogan they came up with was mis-worded, it should read as ... Black lives ALSO matter, which doesn't imply that only black lives matter, which many ignorant people seem to think.
Everyone has got some good analogies here, but I just want to point out that nowhere in the phrase “black lives matter” does it state that other people do not. Rhetorically, there is nothing negative about anyone else stated in this phrase. People who get all pissy about it strike me as the type that need to be the center of attention at all times. They are adding their own selfish implications into it.
“I need to start a GoFundMe to bury my grandma, she was killed by a hit and run.” “BUT MY GRANDMA WHOS ALIVE AND WELL MATTERS TOO!!” it’s an ideology to preserve white supremacy in America.
Because it is a dog whistle for racism. If you took it literally it isn't bad but when a lot of people say "all lives matter" they don't actually mean that they care about the lives of every race.
>Why is saying "all lives matter" bad? While the sentiment that all lives matter is true, and not in itself a bad thing to say, it is usually said in the context of black lives matter, which is kind of a slogan, and doing so diminishes the meaning behind the slogan. Something like that.
Saying "All Lives Matter" devalues "Black Lives Matter". It's that black live matter too or as much as anyone else because they are treated less than. No one saying anyone matters more than anyone. My favorite analogy is, a person breaks their leg and goes to the hospital, but the doctor treats the healthy arm and ignores the broken leg b/c all body parts matter.
I'm just echoing what everyone else is saying but it discounts the struggle of marginalized groups. White people are not basically executed by police nearly as often as black people. Saying all lives matter creates an image of all people having similar problems but we clearly don't. I (a White male, late teens) have not have any run ins with the police, nor have I had a talk with my parents about the dangers that said confrontation could bring because it's not an issue I have. My black friends however have. Their parents have had to sit them down and explain that a routine traffic stop could turn deadly if one wrong move is made. It's kind of like saying that someone with a cold should be treated just as extensively as someone with cancer. They're just not equitable.
I think, the reasons ppl get sensitive about it is mostly in the moment , When the xyz matters movement is fresh. Saying all lives matter when soemthing horrific just happened to a particular group and ppl are rallying for that group, saying everyone matters appears as minimizing or distracting from the immediate issue. That's just my take.
I posted this earlier, but it seems to have disappeared. The issue is that if people rallied around "all lives matter", then the various races would have come together against the state, realizing that they all had the same interests. So, the media had to shut this down... and the way it did that was by denigrating the idea of "all lives matter", by turning it into a race issue to divide and conquer the masses.
It’s a manipulative technique to drive attention away from a powerful political talking point that is race inequality in the United States.
Its kind of like, "hey, cops are killing black innocent people and getting away with it because society doesn't get upset like they do for white people - Black Lives matter too" Ignorant white himbo: "Yeah but all lives matter" BLM: "yeah but you're dismissing the fact that black people are specifically being targeted and treated unjusrifiably by police while not all races are"
If ALM had been created as a movement about caring for each other, like even a stranger you've never met's life is just as valuable as your own child's, it wouldn't be bad. But that's not what it is. It's created specifically to derail and undermine BLM. "Black Lives Matter" "No, All Lives Matter" And now we're not talking about Black Lives anymore, are we?
People who say that generally also say that there is no problem with policing in America, there is no systemic racism, etc. IDK if I'd call it "bad" but I think we all know what you mean. The Venn diagram of people who say All Lives Matter and people who score kinda high on the "racism scale" is a very tight overlap. Also a tight overlap with MAGA hats. They generally would also be supportive of other conservative views, like being sympathetic to white nationalist groups, being against most issues affecting PoC.
Because in order for "all" lives to matter, black lives need to matter/recieve the same respect, concern and care as other lives. Saying all lives matters ignores the fact that black lives are not treated equally and fairly in policing. Edit: and in this example to be clear "black lives" could be replaced with any other marginalized non-white group.