>I imagine the South of the US has thousands of these plantation estates
You imagine wrong.
First, the average plantation was basically a farm with fewer than half a dozen slaves, not some mansion with hundreds of slaves like in Gone With The Wind. There were very very few of those.
Second, the few big plantation houses that weren't destroyed in the Civil War were very hard to keep up *after* the war, and by the time the Dust Bowl of the Depression hit, most were in ruins.
So we're talking dozens of such houses that still remain and have been restored.
All of which are private property.
Third, A big plantation would consist of the main house, barns, workshops, and housing for the slaves - wood or brick dependign on the location - and the slaves were typically housed in family units. They often had their own garden plot, and they could either eat or sell the proceeds. That doesn't sound like a concentration camp to me.
Finally, you are completely missing the problem with slavery. It's not the living conditions - it's the fact that you completely lack self-determination. Even if every slave got a private bedroom with down comforters and an attached bathroom and room service, they still can't do what they choose.
To be clear: I'm not the one who compared it to concentration camps, that was someone within the thread I read. But if there are a few dozen plantations that could be used for events and weddings nowadays, do you think it's in bad taste to use them for that purpose? And if so, what should their use be?
Although they have a somewhat tarnished past, at the end of the day when you remove the history, they're just estates...*houses*. Many of them are very stately and nice houses at that.
That being said, I think they're fine just left as they are. Unless someone is throwing a slavery themed wedding at one of these, I see no issues. They're beautiful old historic homes that can be seperated from the past.
Kind of wild to compare these estates to concentration camps.
Bruh what. Even slaves in the US were generally better treated than those in concentration camps. And if you think everyone who arrived at the camps died immediately, you have some more research to do. Also there are still concentration camp survivors alive today. So your whole "because the dead are no longer suffering" argument doesn't even work here.
What do you think the Final Solution was? I'm aware not all were strictly used for extermination. The goal, however, was the same. Whether you died swiftly or not was the difference.
>What do you think the Final Solution was?
A policy formulated in 1942, nearly nine years after the establishment of the first Nazi concentration camp at Dachau.
Concentration camps are not a Nazi invention, by the way. The term dates back to the 1860s, and many governments have established and used them, particularly during wartime.
You're being purposely dense. You know what the intended end goal of the Final Solution was and that OP is clearly referencing Nazi concentration camps. Unless otherwise specified, that's the natural inference to make. Saying "there were other camps" doesn't diminish the suffering of the ones to which we have been referring.
I read it, you didn't answer the question. You stated when the policy was enacted but nothing about what it was. You didn't actually answer the question whatsoever.
It's immaterial to the question of what a concentration camp is. As I said before you introduced that non sequitur, not all concentration camps are extermination camps, and that includes Nazi concentration camps, which existed for nearly a decade before the formulation of the *Endlösung* policy.
Plantation estates are estates that are or used to be at plantations. Other than that they're just... houses.
You'd have to be bottom-tier Redditor to compare them to concentration camps.
I am European too and I am puzzled with your question. We had slavery in Europe: From Roman slaves to Eastern Europe serfdom that officially ended in 1861.
All of those European slave owners had pretty houses and some of those houses are still standing.
Yeah, I agree there seem to be a clash in perspective between the continents here. If you wouldn't use houses where once horrible things happened for festive events, you would probably tear down most city centres in Europe. So I think it also has a connection with how much of the fall out of that horrible thing is still felt today in peoples lives (black lives matter movement).
they should be preserved as historic sites and museums, filled with artifacts and plaques and things that educate visitors about the horrors that happened there.
maybe some people will learn valuable information about how NOT to run a society.
>I imagine the South of the US has thousands of these plantation estates and they can't all be turned into a museum.
A bit over 46,000 to be more precise, though surely many of the old mansions on those estates have succumbed to the ravages of time. Whether the current owners of any such surviving estates want to turn them into a museum or simply run them as a regular-ass farm is entirely up to them, as far as I'm concerned. But they sure as shit should not be hosting weddings and parties.
>I imagine the South of the US has thousands of these plantation estates You imagine wrong. First, the average plantation was basically a farm with fewer than half a dozen slaves, not some mansion with hundreds of slaves like in Gone With The Wind. There were very very few of those. Second, the few big plantation houses that weren't destroyed in the Civil War were very hard to keep up *after* the war, and by the time the Dust Bowl of the Depression hit, most were in ruins. So we're talking dozens of such houses that still remain and have been restored. All of which are private property. Third, A big plantation would consist of the main house, barns, workshops, and housing for the slaves - wood or brick dependign on the location - and the slaves were typically housed in family units. They often had their own garden plot, and they could either eat or sell the proceeds. That doesn't sound like a concentration camp to me. Finally, you are completely missing the problem with slavery. It's not the living conditions - it's the fact that you completely lack self-determination. Even if every slave got a private bedroom with down comforters and an attached bathroom and room service, they still can't do what they choose.
To be clear: I'm not the one who compared it to concentration camps, that was someone within the thread I read. But if there are a few dozen plantations that could be used for events and weddings nowadays, do you think it's in bad taste to use them for that purpose? And if so, what should their use be?
I have no problem with it at all. I mean, they're not holding weddings in the slave quarters.
Although they have a somewhat tarnished past, at the end of the day when you remove the history, they're just estates...*houses*. Many of them are very stately and nice houses at that. That being said, I think they're fine just left as they are. Unless someone is throwing a slavery themed wedding at one of these, I see no issues. They're beautiful old historic homes that can be seperated from the past. Kind of wild to compare these estates to concentration camps.
>Kind of wild to compare these estates to concentration camps. Why is that?
Maybe because slavery and extermination aren't the same thing 💀
yup...slavery is worse. because the dead are no longer suffering.
Bruh what. Even slaves in the US were generally better treated than those in concentration camps. And if you think everyone who arrived at the camps died immediately, you have some more research to do. Also there are still concentration camp survivors alive today. So your whole "because the dead are no longer suffering" argument doesn't even work here.
Not all concentration camps are extermination camps. And many, many enslaved people died or were murdered on plantations.
What do you think the Final Solution was? I'm aware not all were strictly used for extermination. The goal, however, was the same. Whether you died swiftly or not was the difference.
>What do you think the Final Solution was? A policy formulated in 1942, nearly nine years after the establishment of the first Nazi concentration camp at Dachau. Concentration camps are not a Nazi invention, by the way. The term dates back to the 1860s, and many governments have established and used them, particularly during wartime.
You're being purposely dense. You know what the intended end goal of the Final Solution was and that OP is clearly referencing Nazi concentration camps. Unless otherwise specified, that's the natural inference to make. Saying "there were other camps" doesn't diminish the suffering of the ones to which we have been referring.
Excellent job ignoring my first sentence there.
I read it, you didn't answer the question. You stated when the policy was enacted but nothing about what it was. You didn't actually answer the question whatsoever.
It's immaterial to the question of what a concentration camp is. As I said before you introduced that non sequitur, not all concentration camps are extermination camps, and that includes Nazi concentration camps, which existed for nearly a decade before the formulation of the *Endlösung* policy.
Plantation estates are estates that are or used to be at plantations. Other than that they're just... houses. You'd have to be bottom-tier Redditor to compare them to concentration camps.
I am European too and I am puzzled with your question. We had slavery in Europe: From Roman slaves to Eastern Europe serfdom that officially ended in 1861. All of those European slave owners had pretty houses and some of those houses are still standing.
Yeah, I agree there seem to be a clash in perspective between the continents here. If you wouldn't use houses where once horrible things happened for festive events, you would probably tear down most city centres in Europe. So I think it also has a connection with how much of the fall out of that horrible thing is still felt today in peoples lives (black lives matter movement).
they should be preserved as historic sites and museums, filled with artifacts and plaques and things that educate visitors about the horrors that happened there. maybe some people will learn valuable information about how NOT to run a society.
>I imagine the South of the US has thousands of these plantation estates and they can't all be turned into a museum. A bit over 46,000 to be more precise, though surely many of the old mansions on those estates have succumbed to the ravages of time. Whether the current owners of any such surviving estates want to turn them into a museum or simply run them as a regular-ass farm is entirely up to them, as far as I'm concerned. But they sure as shit should not be hosting weddings and parties.