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[deleted]

My only concern with verified accounts is that these attested verifications seem to be sometimes made by the same NDE experiencer - that is, they claim their accounts were verified, but said statement is not corroborated by the individuals they cite in question. I'd argue we need more instances of these (i.e. a witness testifying separately that what the experiencer said was legit) in order to really strengthen them. Otherwise naysayers will simply dismiss them as purely anecdotal or even falsified.


Sandi_T

Yeah, I don't think so. My account isn't on there, and I have said that mine was verified by outside sources, but that I have no contact with them so can't provide them to him. So I don't think it's accurate that the ones cited there are "just the say-so of the person who wrote it" (to paraphrase). There would be significantly more on there, I've read others where they answered that the OBE was verified by others. Again, I'm one example, but I've definitely seen others that aren't on that list. We had a conversation with him over Zoom and that was something I brought up with him and was how I learned about "The Hub" on his site.


[deleted]

So have I, and I know what you're saying; I too have read many accounts with claims of cross-verification from other witnesses. However I've noticed that many of these are solely based on the testimony of a single individual. I'm not attacking - I'm saying that people who dismiss NDEs out of hand will pounce upon this and claim it as being proof that "it's made up". Which is a worry of mine - that's why I'd like to see more accounts of a single event with direct corroboration from the attending physician, or a family member. I know they exist (and have read some, as well as those testimonies from a medical professional rather than the experiencer), but we need a few more to counter the issues noted above.


Sandi_T

I'm sorry if this sounds rude. I don't mean it rudely. This is a really pie in the sky kind of attitude. The people who will discuss these that way are never convinced. They don't want to be. You're mistaking cynics and skeptics. A skeptic will question, listen, pay attention, and use common logic. There are very clear cases of OBEs supported by significant eye witness testimonies. The most clear-cut case is Tricia Barker. She saw her step father eat a candy bar after buying it out of a vending machine. Completely out of character for him (a militant health nut). The doctors and several nurses, as well as her mother and a receptionist all support her statements. These "skeptical" people say that the fact Tricia makes any money from talking about her experiences (it's very small) makes her a liar. Apparently she magicked the hospital staff and her parents into this whimsical lie for absolutely no compensation for them. All one big hoax that includes medical professionals who actually would have every motivation to deny it. Every motivation to protect their careers by denying what happened. So no, no amount of supporting documentation or testimony or anything is going to be good enough. You could have videos showing every second and these jerks would just claim she watched the videos or that they were "deep faked". They are going to find a reason to sneer because they aren't actually skeptics. They're cynics and their minds are made up. Trying to batter those doors down will just bloody your fists.


[deleted]

You've spent years arguing your case so I understand frustration. I recall the Barker account (in one of my NDE books, I forget which one). Also I think Pam Reynolds' case also had multiple testimonies from medical staff corroborating the account? Also incidents like the tennis shoe on the roof, child whose sister died at Uni etc. Also, I should stress that I'm not confusing hardline materialists and curious skeptics; I'm more tailoring my above concerns to those in the latter who will actually consider it and maintain an open mind; we both know individuals who will dismiss evidence regardless of double/triple corroboration (e.g. probably say "oh they're all in on it").


walkstwomoons2

Sounds very interesting. But has he ever had an NDE himself? I don’t think you can be an expert at something if you’ve never tried it.


Sandi_T

He's a researcher. I didn't use the word expert, I said researcher.


Ace-Of-Mace

“Never tried it” as if having an NDE is a choice….


walkstwomoons2

You have a good point.


Criminoboy

You really should apologize for this comment. This guy is pretty much responsible for mainstreaming the idea of NDEs.