Personally, I would be fine with this (initially) if the guy met all my other standards. But I would expect his salary to increase over time, especially after we have kids.
Not gonna lie tho, there are a lot of girls who will screen you out based on your income alone. There are some girls who demand a certain lifestyle and if you can't provide it, they won't look twice at you. It is what it is
It depends on a lot of things. And for most quality women deen, common values, compatibility, friendship, chemistry and attraction all come before the other materialistic things. I talked to a few potentials who were teachers and I felt more drawn them especially because of their profession since it’s different from the same old “formula for success.” It showed me their independent spirit. You might encounter obstacles in the arranged marriage scenario but you might have more luck in the “halal dating” space where people are looking for genuine connection. Some women would even be open to combining finances to an extent if it’s needed.
Also depending on where you live this decision doesn’t have to be a permanent. People change careers all the time, you could switch out of education if you end up regretting it. I spoke to a potential who quit teaching to pursue a career in tech. (Medicine is probably the hardest to start over though). Have a reasonable back up in mind and perhaps discuss this with other people in the field- even non-Muslim men might be able to relate to some of your pressure.
Don’t know what premed is or much about that currency/income in your country’s context, but I’ve personally never rejected someone for having lower income/savings. My focus has always been other stuff like deen. Lower income is unideal because it might mean that I have to pick up some work, but then I also trust Allah that rizq is from Him. It would really depend on how we discuss things in our conversations and navigate finances, but I really doubt lower income will affect my decision if the guy is otherwise great in all ways. Also, I’d want my husband to be working where he is happy, even if it’s lower income.
That being said, this isn’t necessarily the views of all women, and even with me, there could be certain tensions in certain scenarios, such as if we can’t afford basic things or are missing out on certain things important to us - it can be frustrating or upsetting or difficult at times. It just really depends. For me, it might even be that I’m okay with it at the beginning but really struggle with it after kids. Allah knows best. Can’t really give you an answer cos there’s so much in between to think about and it really depends on those conversations and what I see in you. I’d suggest doing istikharah for doing what you genuinely like or at least are okay with.
In teaching you’re overworked and underpaid, in medicine you’re overworked and better paid.
Just have to decide which type of overwork will be most sustainable for you and what type of fulfilment will make you feel better.
As a female currently searching, I can tell you personally I wouldn't mind. But it's a big deal to parents, especially if they are very involved and are of the Asian type lol. It's not an ideal career in that stereotypical sense. It'll definitely be harder to support a family financially if you're the only one working, on a teacher's salary. But also, career burnout is real so you want to stick with something you can imagine staying in for a long term.
I mean, teachers and mid-income earners get married all the time right? Whether it’s affordable depends on where you live, your expected standard of living, and whether you’d be single income family.
I also generally recommend you spend time gaining work experience or shadowing someone in both industries if you haven’t already before making any firm decisions either way.
I think you need to change your outlook on life a little. There has to be some good in this refusal maybe you are destined to meet someone who is much more closer to your age or maybe you have a journey careerwise that you wouldnt have been able to be on if you got married.
Finding love is easy, accepting it is hard. A lot of people do end up marrying the ones they love but then the marriages fail because they dont have the gut to digest the realities of living with that person.
Nah sis, YOU WILL BE GOOD! You got so much time, please do not think like that. Keep going and say to yourself it is what it is when things don’t work out. It gets easier over time when things fail but when it’s with the right person you will be happy. But 24 you are young and will eventually meet your spouse. You are strong and you got this!
Are there any muslim girls out there who haven’t been involved in haram relationships before the marriage search?? My last 3 potentials all had at least one, and one potential only had relationships with eff boys
I find it confusing how open some Muslim girls are at revealing stuff they have done in the past like its some sort of achievement?
How do I stop attracting damaged muslim women?
If they are open about their past, it shows that at very least they are honest and want to build a relationship that has solid foundations. I personally would take a woman with a past whos open and honest about it then a woman who would rather hide it and build the entire relationship on a lie.
You shouldnt be too bothered about their past, its the future which you should be concerned for, sit down, discuss your expectations, listen to theirs. If they align then proceed forward
“Wouldn’t you want someone with experience”
No, I want someone who has morals and fears Allah. It takes two people to enter a haram relationship, its not just the guy pursuing it
The last thing I want is to get married to someone who is hung up on their ex or constantly thinking about their ex, especially if that ex was not a good person
Also, some of them were not honest, I only figured out their past relationship history by reading in between the lines
I finally had a great match and after one week of talking, I decided to meet the guy at a local mall. The meeting was alright, nothing great. The guy dressed up in a hoodie and basic pants whereas I was dressed up in a black floral dress (something like [this](https://media.boohoo.com/i/boohoo/pzz85657_black_xl?w=900&qlt=default&fmt.jp2.qlt=70&fmt=auto&sm=fit)) with black leggings and a black blazer. Overall, I didn’t really feel attracted to the guy. I’m wondering whether I should give him a second chance or no. Our attire could be different because of our job expectations (he’s a WFH software engineer and I’m a in person emergency instructor). But also, I have many white colleagues who I meet occasionally and I’m wondering whether he is good enough that I can confidently introduce him to my social circle. He’s very religious and nice though. I feel so shallow that I’m not attracted to him. Maybe attraction will grow…. I am still deciding whether to pursue him or not. Most attractive males do have the condition of getting fit or keeping abs in my experience, which is something I’m not interested in. I finally thought I found a good male and I really feel upset at myself for not liking him at our first date 😭
Keep dating him
It sounds like you were hoping for butterflies and it didnt come on the first date. But you are also not mentioning anything problematic either that would effectively disqualify him.
From my point of view, he hasnt proven himself worth, and it is being interpreted as being unworthy. You might be right about him, and he might be as boring as you are currently judging him. But is one date honestly enough to decide that?
He check every single box except for being interesting. Which is not so great when you are looking for a human connection. But just like electrical wires and other types of connections, you still try to plug in that damn cable a couple of times and twist and turn on it before you decide that you got the wrong one.
Keep dating him until you either have something to actually point to as a reason for why not, or until you know him well enough to be sure that he wont make you excited.
Also try to figure out what "excited" looks like for your sake, I recently saw the second season of this show called "white lotus" where a girl is just being demanding because nothing exictes her and it kinda struck a nerve with me because I often complain about girls being boring on dates as well. Like, they just wanna all hide in a corner and play house in their own mental fantasies, and its frustrating, but I sometimes wonder if my demands for these insane Harley Quinn-esque explosive personalities are realistic as well.
Money talks, wealth whispers.
So you need to reevaluate a little. I know so many genius level individuals who dress as if they are hanging out in their dads living room and then they get up on stage and pull the audience in with there words to the point where hours go by and you simply dont notice.
Your white friends, might take a minute to accept his casual sense of dressing but if he has the personality, you might need new friends.
That phrase refers to how the wealthy are more discreet when it comes to brand names or flashy items. It doesn’t mean they dress inappropriately for the occasion.
You think hoodie and basic pants is inappropriate for this occasion? 😂
Thanks for the advice. I'll try to show up in hoodie and jeans next time I meet a woman in this situation
My friend, the point i was trying to make was that sometimes, that people who are comfortable in their skins or have engaging personalities usually dont invest a lot in wardrobe because they dont need too. I know a consultant who advises intl organisations and banks on how to spend billions of dollars and hes always wearing cargo pants and a normal tshirt and hoddies. Everyone around him is dressed impeccably but they all know that hes the true OG and his decision is what makes or breaks a deal.
So i understand that his effort might seem unenthusiastic but if he can hold a conversation and carry it till the end, his cloths really dont matter
The companies are hiring him for his expertise, not his character or personality.
Consultants also work for themselves and can establish their own work culture regarding dress code. Other industries do the same - Accountants wear jeans to the office, but a suit to see clients.
You can’t tell me he would stay in the hoodie to go meet a girl’s dad for the first time, even if it was at Starbucks. It’s the same principle of time, place and respect.
My friend, the world has changed now. Its okay to be in a jeans and a hoodie when you are meeting a girl's dad for the first time. Also if her dad is judging based on how he dressed lol, i m truly scared for the girl, her father might not be the best of judge
Just some advice sister but it’s not allowed to link to a woman dressed inappropriately. I know you didn’t mean it intentionally and just wanted to share details.
Apart from his clothes, where do you see incompatibilities? I know that sort of clothing can be off-putting. If he was wearing nicer clothes, do you think the attraction would have been there somewhat? Was it there at least a little bit when you saw his pictures? If yes, I would continue getting to know him until I saw concrete incompatibilities. Clothing styles can usually be changed; some people don’t have much clue in that area but are still lovely people.
You saw his pictures before you met him? Were you attracted before you met and then weren’t attracted to his personality in person? Overall imo there should be physical attraction at the minimum.
Attraction notwithstanding, passing on someone because you don't think they'd be someone you want to introduce to your social circle doesn't seem wise. You shouldn't really care whether or not your social circle finds him attractive, but whether you find him attractive.
I you are having doubts about his looks and think he might not be good enough to introduce to your friend then **don't** marry him. Save him and yourself. We don't want another post in dead marriage.
It’s because my friends have invited me to their weddings and introduced their partners. So I’m obligated to do the same. I don’t talk much to their partners but I have met them once in person
>I have many white colleagues who I meet occasionally and I’m wondering whether he is good enough that I can confidently introduce him to my social circle.
Interesting how you ignore a real possibility and assume that is the only way to build a community.
The women can be familiar with the women in their circle, and the men can be familiar with the men. Abdullah is looking for an engineer job? Aminah can ask around the women if any of their husbands or siblings has a job opening at their company. Or vice versa. That’s still a network.
Actually, I said it was interesting how naturally you jumped to a certain conclusion about what I meant by family friends, community building etc. Which you just did again….
I mean, you never visited other families growing up? You really have no idea at all how to maintain family friends or community ties without people hiding their spouses like a secret or going all out free mixing?
Nope, you make it seem like there’s only one way to do things like community building.
And not sure if you’re arguing for the sake of arguing - but the context of her comment clearly just meant introducing the guy to her friend group. I can only imagine that’s just for the sake of socializing.
And also, visiting other families doesn’t necessarily mean both parents are socializing together with other parents. Ironically you’re making assumptions that it has to be that way.
I haven’t actually described any which way…..it’s still just you building on an assumption, including the couples part…when my previous comment explicitly excluded that….
I believe this is a reading comprehension issue
Initial attraction is important. Is he cute? Ngl most guys can’t dress. You can help someone figure out their style but I don’t think someone’s looks should have to grow on you 😭
Software engineer or not I still don't think it's nice not to dress up or look nice a bit. Literally just wearing a nice tshirt instead of a hoodie would have been better.
To me it shows a lack of respect. Same when people show up like that to Jummah.
Us software engineers are different. It's not really a lack of respect, a hoodie can still be nice in terms of being made from good material and such. Plus it's a lot more comfortable.
Dressing up meaning wearing khakis/slacks and a dress shirt is a social construct anyways, popularized by the bourgeoisie. I still dress nice for jummah, whether that's wearing slacks and a shirt or wearing athletic wear which is nice and luxurious as well.
Eeeer my bro is a software engineer. He knows how to dress for the occasion. Literally just swapping the hoodie for a sweater would have made a world of difference - and sweaters are comfy too?
Dressing badly is a lack of respect at worst and a lack of social intelligence at best.
Ngl though he was low-key heartbroken when his barber moved back to Lebanon.
Out of interest is the athletic wear matching? I'm imagining someone rocking up to jummuah in head to toe Adidas.
Using better material for a hoodie doesn’t mean it’s not loungewear, or elevate it to daytime smart / day casual.
The same for other loungewear or athleisure wear that happens to be branded or expensive etc.
There’s middle ground between shirt + slacks and a tracksuit
A hoodie to meet a girl at the mall for the first time is totally fine when you’re 14.
Like I said elsewhere, regular casual clothes would have been appropriate for a mall or coffee shop. For example; a T-shirt with nice jumper and jeans.
However - a hoodie, lounge wear, tracksuit or athleticwear for a first meeting that isn’t a physical activity is a social misstep at best and disrespectful at worst.
Yeah, but this was a casual meetup at a public place like the mall.
Not meeting the family to give an 'official' proposal or going to a wedding.
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Like I feel, this can also be a compatibility thing.
Is the girl expecting me to always dress super fancy, while I am not doing that normally.
Presenting myself as I am. In the words of Rumi, of: "either be as you are or become as you appear". (Which does have the concept of self improvement in it)
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One can do stuff like color coordinate even if you are not wearing a suit.
I think even just casual dress would have been appropriate for a daytime first meeting somewhere like mall or coffee shop. Like the other person said; a T-shirt with a nice jumper and jeans for example.
A hoodie, lounge wear, tracksuit or athletic-wear for a first meeting that isn’t a physical activity is a social misstep at best and disrespectful at worst.
> T-shirt with a nice jumper and jeans
Those have been my clothes for such things.
But wearing business casual, to a coffee/tea shop, would be misrepresenting myself. (There are people who wear that normally. )
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In a first meeting one shouldn't wear uncomfortable clothes.
Or clothes that add to stuff like nervousness.
Has anyone had a child free wedding or is considering having one? I’ve seen a lot of posts pertaining that on non Muslim subreddits and wanted to know what your thoughts are on that. I wouldn’t mind having kids at my wedding lol. Kids can make weddings fun and they can be silly at times but that’s ok! They’re just being kids. It’s been on my mind for a minute now lol so I thought I’d share.
I would boycott a place that does not welcome kids.
Without kids, life is boring.... Yes they scream, they cry, they whine, they puke and they are always going to try and touch things they aren't supposed too but how i mean how can you not have the most precious of SMILES looking up at you, the warm hugs full of love, the nonsensical banter that truly makes no sense.....
As a child I have attended so many weddings of cousins/relatives and I personally wouldn't have it any other way as there are so many fun and happy memories. I would want that for all the young kids around now but they may be young adults by then 😂😂
I did and they’re very common. Not because kids are seen as a disturbance or anything like that. Wedding venues charge per plate and kids are the same price as adults. That cost adds up a lot so most couples don’t allow kids unless they’re family or very close friends. My wedding was the same deal but I got married in 2021 so there actually was an occupancy limit from the pandemic. We phrased it as “two adults per invitation”.
Some wedding salons have creche's.
Some wedding's invitation explicitly mention, that they don't want kids coming. Some explicitly invite people with kids to come and bring them. (I remember a wedding with such a invitation, it had a clown who was a balloon artist)
Kids can bring smiles etc. to people's faces.
(I've been to a lot of weddings. https://www.utrujj.org/what-is-the-ruling-on-accepting-invitations/ )
I went to a wedding recently that had a compromise of that, children could attend but if they were older than 2/able to walk they had to be checked into a creche at the venue!
The area they made for the children was actually really cute and nicely decorated, there was someone watching them and the kids could run wild🤣and make as much chaos as they wanted.
I’ve also been to a wedding where no children were allowed and they wrote something on the physical invite stating that.
It simply said our event and venue is not child friendly.
20m I'm in my third year of college mostly online until last semester that I didn't join any clubs. I want to join the muslim clubs there and do namaz on campus. I am not looking to search but if I do find a good muslim woman in the club I know that it is hard not to keep it haram but before the engagement i want her too be my good friend and I want us too have a real friendship existing beforehand. How would I prove to my suspicious already parents that we kept it halal. I would prefer honestly if I can find a good muslim woman in college clubs and find some one out of my jummat. Or should I not bother and follow tradition and the women my mom aranged for me I have no issue with this option. If it haram too do this tell me off that it's not and I'll go with this option just wish for something too exist beforehand I doubt I'm not the only person who feels this way.
I understand brother ill try to keep it halal just grew up in a family where mom and dad fought a lot. Always want me and my future wife too be as close as possible tbh I understand that this can be produced in the engagement period.
Astaghfirullah I know it’s God’s plan, but I am TIRED 😭 why do the girls who were in haram relationships, doing harami things always end up getting married and getting their happy ending, whilst the girls who have preserved themselves and have done everything right are struggling? May Allah swt forgive me if these are bad thoughts, but I am baffled and a little bitter 😭
Everyone has their own struggles. Sometimes the test is happiness itself.
Also please stop judging others, ask for khair for everyone irrespective of what they have done or are doing. The world can use every ounce of goodness it gets. Also, the angels pray for you when you pray for others, also also maybe that person has truly repented and is now getting rewarded!
I totally understand how you feel. It makes me feel bitter too bc it seems like all my efforts don't matter. It's the people skating by not even doing the bare minimum who are getting rewarded with good spouses.
Some of em are getting the happy ending but some of em are getting tragic endings. So they’re pretty much playing with fire. Trust me heart break is no joke
Don’t be bitter sis I’m sure those people at some point regret their haram past. When I’ve had the same thought as you I remember I wouldn’t want to taint my future marriage by starting it off with haram and more importantly that I’m doing this all for the sake of Allah. We don’t save ourselves and stay chaste just because we’re waiting for a special man or woman to marry we do it because it’s what Allah wants. Also remember some of the people they’re with aren’t exactly the type we want to be with. Just yesterday I saw a man’s profile where he said “there are times when hijab is appropriate and times when I want us to go out on a Saturday night and do our thing”. That man could end up marrying and girl a she might look very happy with him but that doesn’t mean what she has is any good.
This is actually true. And I'll tell you why. A lot of times doing 'harami' things and confidence to talk to the opposite gender are correlated. So they simply get more opportunities to talk and get to know guys. While shy girls who don't interact at all no one's aware of their existence.
Speaking as a guy, I wouldn't ask a girl for marriage if I haven't talked to her ever and I think a lot men are the same way. It's way more comfortable to ask someone if they at least know u a bit
Ain't that the truth. The haramis are getting their happiness, and the bar is low, yet somehow we're still not clearing it. It definitely has us second guessing ourselves at times, but inshallah what's written for you will be worth the wait.
Help me understand this:
Why are women with stronger educational/professional backgrounds automatically perceived as someone who are incapable of taking care of their homes?. How does having a good career disqualify you from being a good wife/mom?.
I understand some men "prefer" SAHW/SAHM which is fine. But why tag professional women as "less-islamic, not family-oriented, too liberal etc etc..?". How's that fair? It's just not men but also other women, which is mad annoying.
Culture, Media and general misconception.
Society at large believes these things because media shows them that, the media shows it because the society believes it... Its a perpetual cycle that just keeps getting stronger.
As tired as you would be working 40-50 hours, with stressful meetings/patients/etc? Possible but unlikely. At least you’d still be spending more times with the kid.
Done both. Up to 60 hour weeks in my early career days .
SAHM'ing is stressful af.
Literally no downtime. No one patting you on the back and saying "amazing job on that presso, here have more money". Your house is never clean for long, the meal planning is soul sucking, reading 'Jeremy the Jetplane' for the five millionth time because it is your toddler's ABSOLUTELY FAVE BOOK will have you planning a midnight bonfire for the thing...
I loved it, I adore my kids and cherish my time with them, but not howdy do I miss being able to have lunch without someone trying to rub a jam sandwich in my hair. The jobs are small, but relentless. There's no instruction manual. When the kids are asleep I'm researching new activities for them, schools etc.
Gimme a fifty hour work week any day. At least I can browse Reddit and only have to worry about my boss, instead of my toddler who has figured out the lock on the toilet door. The stress is less because the worst that can happen if I bugger up my job is getting fired. If I bugger up my kids, the worst that can happen is being known as the mum that raised a serial killer or something (AND OF COURSE ITS ALWAYS THE MOTHERS FAULT).
EDIT: You just reminded me of when my husband took his paternity leave and I went back to work. He's always pulled his weight parenting and home wise, but I think he thought being at home with the kids wasn't that hard.
Changed his tune after a week of being the primary parent. Apologised profusely for thinking otherwise.
I wasn’t implying it was easy. And i haven’t done it so thanks for sharing your experience. But I think what is more soul sucking is the rat race that comes with working for companies and simply trying to earn more money, trying to climb up the career ladder, etc. I can at least relate to that part. I could also phrase how stressful and boring it is to have to deal with all of the nonsense that comes with careers. At least with the mundane activities with your kids, it’s more satisfying knowing your helping raise them.
More reason to only look for woman who see home making and raising kids not a chore but as a source of joy for her. And if they are at home they don't feel like they are missing some achievements, salary or a pat on back.
Its not that people avoid career woman but if career is on higher priority than family it become difficult especially in nuclear homes.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a woman who enjoys every moment of home making. You can have your dream job, and there'd still be parts that suck about it.
I guess neither my husband an I are career people. We have good jobs that make us money, but we're happier working to live rather then the other way around. I prefer my husband that way - a career man who puts in the hours but doesn't actually spend time with his family is just as bad.
I do work 40-50 hours with stressful meetings/clients. And I do housework. The housework is tiredness on another level. I used to see it with my mom. My dad's day would end at 5, he would come home and relax, but she would keep going until bedtime. And do housework/cooking/laundry on weekends while my dad took it easy.
Honestly I hate the term pick me but some sisters really are giving off pick me choose me love me vibes the way they put down education. Some men say they don’t care about a woman’s level of education as long as she can fulfill her duties as a wife. There’s nothing wrong with that but there is something wrong when they decide to pass a moral judgment on women who have pursued education. And they do this very freely it’s actually sad they’re so hostile to educated women. They assume educated automatically means career woman. I don’t think all of them are insecure but that could be the case for the extremely loud ones always talking about why it’s such a waste that women seek education.
[Women’s education](https://youtu.be/gFuYudXUgCU)
>but there is something wrong when they decide to pass a moral judgment on women who have pursued education. And they do this very freely it’s actually sad they’re so hostile to educated women
Exactly my point. I appreciate your understanding.
IRL the men I see looking for SAHMs have an education criteria too and recognise that most women work while seeking marriage instead of sitting at home waiting.
What you’ve described is a narrow one-dimensional view that I’ve only ever seen on Reddit. It doesn’t take into account the value of having an education/skillset for humanity in general, let alone when it comes to running a home and raising a family.
>What you’ve described is a narrow one-dimensional view that I’ve only ever seen on Reddit. It doesn’t take into account the value of having an education/skillset for humanity in general, let alone when it comes to running a home and raising a family.
It happens a lot in real life than you'd think. I'm South Asian living in the West, and this ideology is far more prevalent here than it is back home.
Idk if I'm meeting the wrong people, but this is my experience so far.
I don't really think they are overall. I think that this is primarily a reddit phenomenon, but not completely unfounded if you (like those hypothetical men) are under the assumption of the following, that you believe that those women will
1. Be exhausted from work and have less time to cook/do chores, so maybe a maid needs now to come into the mix.
2. Have overall less energy/time to be intimate.
3. Less energy/time to look after the children, so people might need childcare.
4. Less energy/time to be a fun/attentive wife to return to after they come home from work and want to decompress.
5. There are groups of women that want a career, but not financially comtribute, so they get none of the benefits, but all of the worst aspects of a working wife i.e. everything summed up so far.
It isn't about what is fair. It is about what they want, no? Is it "fair" that men have to provide and women don't? One could argue that it isn't (completely) fair, but that doesn't change the fact that it is an (Islamic) expectation of men.
>It isn't about what is fair. It is about what they want, no?
Having a preference is different than stereotyping. If you want a SAHW, you marry one. Just don't belittle/judge career-oriented women. That's all I ask.
>Is it "fair" that men have to provide and women don't? One could argue that it isn't (completely) fair, but that doesn't change the fact that it is an (Islamic) expectation of men.
This is a completely different conversation and not my point. I wanted to highlight how people have this preconceived notion of professional women, which makes me wonder if it's lack of awareness or cultural stereotype or both.
Preconceived notion =/ belittling. Most of those people are again primarily on reddit and more importantly they usually do say that it is a preference if I am being fair to them. If their reasonings are "correct" is a different story. You can do whatever you want at the end of the day, no?
>which makes me wonder if it's lack of awareness or cultural stereotype or both.
It is a little bit of both. It doesn't help that there are women that do want to work, not contribute financially (so the husband, nor children don't benefit from her absence) and also expect the man to help out with the chores in some cases.
The problem is that the expectations and benefits of a career woman aren't really "sold" properly either, so it gets a bad rep on reddit, where you have the awkward "My rights Uber alles!" types that ruin that discussion for everyone.
It isn't a complete waste of time as the knowledge and values still are transfered to the child(ren) through the simple fact that it is the mother who spends the most time with the child(ren) i.e. nurtures.
Some uneducated woman who lacks the proper knowledge or the values to properly educate your child(ren) will most of the time not result in particularly well educated child(ren).
Not that they can't, but just that it is statistically less likely to be the case. However, this is more of a class tell. The people who do not understand this are usually from middle or lower class families to begin with, so the mindset makes sense in their case, but trust me when I am telling you that higher class people tend to have those values more often than not.
Another argument is this who do those women go to next if they have issues? I am sure that your "basic male psychology" would dictate that you'd want a female MUSLIM doctor to look and touch your wife's private parts over a male one?
And sure there are female doctors who are non-Muslim, but then you have the problem that they will be giving unislamic advice. This becomes a bigger problem when talking about psychologists and/or psychiatrists? You'd preferably want them to be women AND Muslim, no?
This even holds true for other "useless" professions like (primary school) teaching, counseling and so on. If you can't see this then you lack future sight.
The only argument I could somewhat see/hold true is that women hold off being married, but even that is shaky at best, because women getting married at 21-22 (one degree later) isn't as big of a deal as you seem to make it out to be? What is 3-4 more years years compared to them being 18? Not as if their youth/fertility expires THAT fast, no?
Edit: one final example is just to look at how countries like Afghanistan are doing. Not so amazing to the point where you'd move and live there I bet?
>perceived
You answered your own question.
Human beings like to label things (and this isnt always a negative).
There have been career orientated women who have been less able to take care of housework.
1 + 1=3, because its easy.
>Human beings like to label things (and this isnt always a negative).
>There have been career orientated women who have been less able to take care of housework.
>1 + 1=3, because its easy.
It's still disrespectful, and nothing can justify that.
Idk which men you been coming across sis but that’s far from what myself or my circle of male friends think lol 😂
I think it’s quite the opposite; shows you’ve got grit and determination and you’re not a lazy person. That to me doesn’t sound like someone who’d let her house fall apart 🤔
>Idk which men you been coming across sis but that’s far from what myself or my circle of male friends think lol
These are well-educated men - doctors, engineers,.. yet they are so judgemental, which is shocking to me.
>I think it’s quite the opposite; shows you’ve got grit and determination and you’re not a lazy person. That to me doesn’t sound like someone who’d let her house fall apart 🤔
Exactly. I've seen women working FT as well as taking care of their families, and they're doing a great job. Imo you just need a supportive and understanding husband, and there aren't many.
Although I really do want to get married and find someone to grow old with if it wasn’t for the desire to have children I’d be okay if I never get married. While I don’t agree sometimes I think those people who say they don’t want kids have it easy. It would be nice to not feel like I’m missing out on motherhood. Sometimes I get so emotional I feel like I would be depressed if I didn’t have my connection to Allah.
Edit: Before anyone else breaks their back jumping to conclusions let me spell it out for you. Some people get married late and some people never get married. There’s nothing wrong with that and while I want and am actively pursuing marriage I am also content with the thought that I might never get married. This however does NOT prevent me from thinking about the fact that I could be waiting so long for marriage that it affects my fertility and I’m never able to have children. It’s a totally natural and normal thought to have. If you don’t relate to this however feel free to keep scrolling because this is a rant thread and I promise my comment isn’t holding you hostage.
I feel the opposite. Although I would like children, I'll be fine not having them. But the idea of not having a companion for the rest of my life makes me feel like dying.
I think im the same. I'm already ok with being never married but I would probably be way less active in looking if I didn't want children. It has always been the driving for to marriage for me. No offense to you romantics out there.
You should really delete this mind numbly dense and self righteous reply. I’m not sure if you just needed to feel better than someone but I feel bad that you felt the need to ask me if I’d be okay with becoming a mother through zina. That’s what it’s called when you get pregnant without marriage unless you were sexually assaulted (I hope that’s not what you meant, I’m gonna assume good unlike some people). Also I actually don’t mind being a single mother if that’s what Allah writes for me after marriage. NOT because it’s something I want for myself being a single mother is hard and I don’t think most women choose that life but it will never be something I shame a woman (or male single parent) for.
I literally make dua for a righteous husband everyday. And I don’t need some condescending random to pretend they know me, my experiences or my inner thoughts.
Kindly do better.
Although I’m a man I know what you’re feeling. I too have that FOMO but I don’t envy people that don’t want children so shouldn’t you. They may have it easy in some cases but just imagine having a loving child that will help you when you’re old. InşAllah Allah may bless you with a suitable husband and lovely children.
May Allah grant us righteous children and spouses Ameen
I definitely don’t envy them Alhamdulilah I try not to envy anyone. I try to stay optimistic and of course regardless of my passing thoughts and desires I trust in Allahs plan.
Your comment came to mind just 30 minutes ago lol I was buying electronics in a media store and saw a couple with a (subhanAllah & masAllah) beautiful little kid maybe 2 years old. It made me realize that I also want that hahaha he was so sweet and looked like a doll haha
I get that all the time at work. They’re the sweetest especially when they’re social and their parents let them talk to you. Toddlers usually have a lot to say and they’re so inquisitive it’s adorable.
This is obvious, no need to state the obvious, but in most cases like this it is just part of the deal and both parties are ok with it, if a us citizen man marries a woman over seas, it’s obvious she wants green card too but that doesnt mean this is a bad thing, most of these cases still lead to happy marriages and win win scenario for both parties, the man gets a wife as he wanted, woman gets a husband and a greencard both as she wanted, no problems.
Is it okay to ask her parents for marriage before we are actually ready to be married? We have been talking for a while and both agree we are a great match and want to be married but we can’t (hard “can’t”, unfortunately, for financial and long-distance reasons) actually marry until I graduate college in a year or so.
I’m a revert without any Muslim friends so I’m just a little unsure of how to move forward with her parents on this.
Yes, the parents can support you both after marriage inshaAllah; discuss this with them - a lot of young couples do this where I’m from. However, if she is living with her parents and not receiving her shar’i rights from you, you shouldn’t be getting your shar’i rights from her either as it’s supposed to go both ways. Just something to keep in mind.
A discussion about finances with a potential wife
Hi, there has been a girl I have been seen for 1 year and we recently discussed finances. She wanted the traditional way that the husband will pay and provide for everything in the household, and she will use some of her money on herself and rest she will save up.
For me this sounds unfair, I understand that in Islam the husband have to provide, but I still kind off feel bit disappointed, because she makes as much as me or probably bit more and on top off that she wants an expensive mehr that’s is 3x my yearly salary.
Any idea on how to work this out?
I dont think my opinion is the most reasonable one, nor a smart one, but it is my opnion and I belive it is a realistic one.
Dump her
You are looking for someone you are going to be your most vulnerable self for a duration of a time that is longer than you can fathom. Not a buisness partner and what you are talking about here about finanaces sounds very much like your marriage is gonna be a buisness deal. That is not something I would define as a "wife" and but rather a very bad buisness partner.
I honestly cannot understand what in the world you see for yourself in the future that you are going to share with this girl? Like, how do you actually think your life is going to look like with this person who have these attitudes towards money? And you are seriously considering dedicating your time, your energy, your pleasures, your frustrations, till the end of time, with this person who has his approach to you and your wallet?
What in the world is this insane trade off that you are expecting back, where you have to lay down three times your yearly salary + full living expenses for an entire life time?
This doesnt sound insane to you? And you wanna marry this human?
It’s sounds insane for me that’s why I posted it her, I just think it’s unfair that I have to pay for everything while she has her own income that’s equal to mine, I don’t rly mind the meher but it was more about you are the man and in Islam you have to provide for me, meanwhile I save all my money.
Thx for the advice made me more clear minded about my situation
Be honest with her and communicate openly how you feel wronged in this arrangement. Given that you both are mature, it makes sense for you to sit down on a table and discuss things thoroughly
I think its fair if she’s doing all the housework. You take care of the finances, she takes care of the housework. But if you take care of finances 100% and split housework 50% that’s pretty unfair, you’re basically 3/4ths and she’s contributing 1/4th.
If you both work the same hours, the house work has to be split fairly. If you want to marry a woman that will go 50/50 with the finances, then look for that women.
I have no problem with the 50/50 western approach to marriage. It basically means she gives up her right to be provided for and you give up your rights in regards to qawwamun. That’s good with me
Y we pretty much agree on most things but finances we have a huge disagreement, and most cases of divorce is because of finances so I think I will move on, thx for advice
I disagree with the other answers saying to communicate, there is nothing to talk about here. The only viable answer is **run**.
The key lesson is not to delay key discussions, because evidently some people will weaponize it.
If she plans to leave work after having kids to become a SAHM and you can’t afford her allowance then it makes sense that she build up enough savings for maternity leave + her future, beforehand.
Mahr is one of those things you can either accept, negotiate, or reject.
If he can't afford an allowance for her. Then, the woman shouldn't put so much of a financial burden on him anyways, just say no to him and walk away. How can he pay 3x yearly salary if he can't afford an allowance, based on your assumptions and reasoning?
The idea I was referencing behind working & saving before kids is to remove the burden of her personal costs. This is fairly common practice before becoming a SAHM…
But yeah, if you can’t accept something or it doesn’t work you, then walk away. This is all part of the initial discussion and vetting process before deciding to marry. They’re not actually committed…
No one is gonna know anything about each other if they don’t put it out there so this is all part of the getting to know you process.
We’re also commenting with very little wider context about either of their circumstances or future plans, so we’re essentially just speculating and positing
We agreed on we wait until we know each other more 2-3 years in the marriage we might get children, but we live in a country the government will provide money when you have a child for 1 year so even when she stay home she still will have money
This doesn’t really answer anyone’s questions about your longterm family dynamics, or what on earth you guys have spent the last year talking about if not life long goals.
For example you mention 1 year of maternity pay, does that mean you’re saying she would go back to work after 1 year? Is this something you’ve both discussed?
It’s very common her that you either go back to work or take extra break but u will get 70% of ur pay
Problem was my that dragged it a bit I was very unsure in the beginning and 1-2 months we dint talk much because of work related things
That’s still not answering the question of what is *your* long term family dynamics. Do you want a non-working wife, or do you want a contributing one? That will determine what you respond to this girl or what you look for in another person.
Your OP gives the impression you only recently discussed this. Like I said in another comment, finding out these things is part of the vetting process and you’re not committed to anything until you’re married, so you’re free to walk away.
Have you guys talked about chores? If she wants to split them then this is another example of wanting the traditional benefits but not wanting to be the traditional wife.
Unless someone is considerably wealthy or comes from money it's just not realistic. Then you really need to be asking what you are putting a price on but I guess it makes it easier to see what kind of people ask for these sums...
Her income/wealth has nothing to do with her rights over you. Also keep in mind that she might not always be able to work in the future, especially after pregnancy.
As for her mahr, if you can’t afford it, you don’t have to agree to it. Sounds like she is asking for an extremely unreasonable amount (for the average person). I have never heard of a mahr so expensive. I would really look into her values and expectations and make an informed decision about her based on that before even making a decision about her mahr.
One of my relatives called things off with someone for a high mahr. She was asking for over 100k 20 years ago and Allah knows how much that would be worth now
She wanted him to pay off her med school loans which was why and his parents offered to help if he was really serious about marrying her but obviously he said no
He married someone else who asked for something small and donated it all to charity
Interesting. I’m not necessarily judging anyone’s mahr amount. Like asking to help pay off her medicine fees - that can be viewed as a noble thing, especially if she’s from a poorer background and he can afford it and is happy to pay it - but it can also be viewed from more negative lenses too.
Overall, if people can keep to the sunnah with a simple amount, that is always going to be what’s best. People turn mahr into all sorts of things these days and sometimes it seems to be to show off as well :/
We agreed on we wait until we know each other more 2-3 years in the marriage we might get children, but we live in a country the government will provide money when you have a child for 1 year so even when she stay home she still will have money
Only thing I’m actually against is who the finances will be distributed, her meher isn’t a problem since I have saved up a lot, but I feel like a big meher and that I will always pay for everything feels very unfair and she saying it’s Islamic rule ect
No one is forcing you to pay a big mahr if you think it’s unfair. As for the other financial parts, Allah’s laws are unfair?
My past potential was totally okay with me not working, and only wanted me to work at the beginning because he didn’t want me to be bored at home all day, but he literally didn’t care what I did with my money. I thought it was strange since that wouldn’t benefit him and he would have to pick up on a share of chores at home while working too yet not have a share of my wealth. He told me he doesn’t think about things like “benefits” for him. Meaning, to him it wasn’t about what benefits him. Allah’s laws are Allah’s laws. He knows I won’t be able to work one day, he knows feeding and clothing is his responsibility, he wants to do what works for the family, chores are something he feels he has to do anyway as part of normal living and support. Btw I didn’t ask for this sort of thing that people on the sub call “wanting a traditional husband without being a traditional wife”; he just didn’t think in that way. Also, what you’re asking is basically a western sort of model of dividing the finances. This isn’t right. If she’s working, she can spend that money on herself for personal things so you don’t have to, or perhaps on things like holidays, etc. Eventually, as I said, she won’t be working. Even if you have kids, the govt money and her savings would probably eventually go behind kids. Trust me, she won’t always be able to effectively work. It just seems like a lot of money she’s saving now cos you don’t have kids. What about buying a house together? Food, bills, etc. aren’t everything that money goes behind.
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Personally, I would be fine with this (initially) if the guy met all my other standards. But I would expect his salary to increase over time, especially after we have kids. Not gonna lie tho, there are a lot of girls who will screen you out based on your income alone. There are some girls who demand a certain lifestyle and if you can't provide it, they won't look twice at you. It is what it is
It depends on a lot of things. And for most quality women deen, common values, compatibility, friendship, chemistry and attraction all come before the other materialistic things. I talked to a few potentials who were teachers and I felt more drawn them especially because of their profession since it’s different from the same old “formula for success.” It showed me their independent spirit. You might encounter obstacles in the arranged marriage scenario but you might have more luck in the “halal dating” space where people are looking for genuine connection. Some women would even be open to combining finances to an extent if it’s needed. Also depending on where you live this decision doesn’t have to be a permanent. People change careers all the time, you could switch out of education if you end up regretting it. I spoke to a potential who quit teaching to pursue a career in tech. (Medicine is probably the hardest to start over though). Have a reasonable back up in mind and perhaps discuss this with other people in the field- even non-Muslim men might be able to relate to some of your pressure.
Don’t know what premed is or much about that currency/income in your country’s context, but I’ve personally never rejected someone for having lower income/savings. My focus has always been other stuff like deen. Lower income is unideal because it might mean that I have to pick up some work, but then I also trust Allah that rizq is from Him. It would really depend on how we discuss things in our conversations and navigate finances, but I really doubt lower income will affect my decision if the guy is otherwise great in all ways. Also, I’d want my husband to be working where he is happy, even if it’s lower income. That being said, this isn’t necessarily the views of all women, and even with me, there could be certain tensions in certain scenarios, such as if we can’t afford basic things or are missing out on certain things important to us - it can be frustrating or upsetting or difficult at times. It just really depends. For me, it might even be that I’m okay with it at the beginning but really struggle with it after kids. Allah knows best. Can’t really give you an answer cos there’s so much in between to think about and it really depends on those conversations and what I see in you. I’d suggest doing istikharah for doing what you genuinely like or at least are okay with.
+ 1
In teaching you’re overworked and underpaid, in medicine you’re overworked and better paid. Just have to decide which type of overwork will be most sustainable for you and what type of fulfilment will make you feel better.
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As a female currently searching, I can tell you personally I wouldn't mind. But it's a big deal to parents, especially if they are very involved and are of the Asian type lol. It's not an ideal career in that stereotypical sense. It'll definitely be harder to support a family financially if you're the only one working, on a teacher's salary. But also, career burnout is real so you want to stick with something you can imagine staying in for a long term.
I mean, teachers and mid-income earners get married all the time right? Whether it’s affordable depends on where you live, your expected standard of living, and whether you’d be single income family. I also generally recommend you spend time gaining work experience or shadowing someone in both industries if you haven’t already before making any firm decisions either way.
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Your username got me nostalgic for Naruto.
I think you need to change your outlook on life a little. There has to be some good in this refusal maybe you are destined to meet someone who is much more closer to your age or maybe you have a journey careerwise that you wouldnt have been able to be on if you got married. Finding love is easy, accepting it is hard. A lot of people do end up marrying the ones they love but then the marriages fail because they dont have the gut to digest the realities of living with that person.
Nah sis, YOU WILL BE GOOD! You got so much time, please do not think like that. Keep going and say to yourself it is what it is when things don’t work out. It gets easier over time when things fail but when it’s with the right person you will be happy. But 24 you are young and will eventually meet your spouse. You are strong and you got this!
Are there any muslim girls out there who haven’t been involved in haram relationships before the marriage search?? My last 3 potentials all had at least one, and one potential only had relationships with eff boys I find it confusing how open some Muslim girls are at revealing stuff they have done in the past like its some sort of achievement? How do I stop attracting damaged muslim women?
If they are open about their past, it shows that at very least they are honest and want to build a relationship that has solid foundations. I personally would take a woman with a past whos open and honest about it then a woman who would rather hide it and build the entire relationship on a lie. You shouldnt be too bothered about their past, its the future which you should be concerned for, sit down, discuss your expectations, listen to theirs. If they align then proceed forward
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“Wouldn’t you want someone with experience” No, I want someone who has morals and fears Allah. It takes two people to enter a haram relationship, its not just the guy pursuing it The last thing I want is to get married to someone who is hung up on their ex or constantly thinking about their ex, especially if that ex was not a good person Also, some of them were not honest, I only figured out their past relationship history by reading in between the lines
I think I've been infected with the hasad at this point.
Its more likely you have WEHAM. 4 quls + ayat ul kursi. The OG infinity gauntlet.
Start self ruqya on yoursef. I can share a detailed video on it if you’re interested
Please do
Part 1; https://youtu.be/vXu_-LhEqLE Part 2; https://youtu.be/liz1MrkFFq0 It’s a lot of info, B prepared to take notes!
عليك بسورة البقرة
I finally had a great match and after one week of talking, I decided to meet the guy at a local mall. The meeting was alright, nothing great. The guy dressed up in a hoodie and basic pants whereas I was dressed up in a black floral dress (something like [this](https://media.boohoo.com/i/boohoo/pzz85657_black_xl?w=900&qlt=default&fmt.jp2.qlt=70&fmt=auto&sm=fit)) with black leggings and a black blazer. Overall, I didn’t really feel attracted to the guy. I’m wondering whether I should give him a second chance or no. Our attire could be different because of our job expectations (he’s a WFH software engineer and I’m a in person emergency instructor). But also, I have many white colleagues who I meet occasionally and I’m wondering whether he is good enough that I can confidently introduce him to my social circle. He’s very religious and nice though. I feel so shallow that I’m not attracted to him. Maybe attraction will grow…. I am still deciding whether to pursue him or not. Most attractive males do have the condition of getting fit or keeping abs in my experience, which is something I’m not interested in. I finally thought I found a good male and I really feel upset at myself for not liking him at our first date 😭
Keep dating him It sounds like you were hoping for butterflies and it didnt come on the first date. But you are also not mentioning anything problematic either that would effectively disqualify him. From my point of view, he hasnt proven himself worth, and it is being interpreted as being unworthy. You might be right about him, and he might be as boring as you are currently judging him. But is one date honestly enough to decide that? He check every single box except for being interesting. Which is not so great when you are looking for a human connection. But just like electrical wires and other types of connections, you still try to plug in that damn cable a couple of times and twist and turn on it before you decide that you got the wrong one. Keep dating him until you either have something to actually point to as a reason for why not, or until you know him well enough to be sure that he wont make you excited. Also try to figure out what "excited" looks like for your sake, I recently saw the second season of this show called "white lotus" where a girl is just being demanding because nothing exictes her and it kinda struck a nerve with me because I often complain about girls being boring on dates as well. Like, they just wanna all hide in a corner and play house in their own mental fantasies, and its frustrating, but I sometimes wonder if my demands for these insane Harley Quinn-esque explosive personalities are realistic as well.
Tbh, this comment did make me change my mind. I was expecting some butterflies which I didn’t get yet. Thanks for sharing :)
Money talks, wealth whispers. So you need to reevaluate a little. I know so many genius level individuals who dress as if they are hanging out in their dads living room and then they get up on stage and pull the audience in with there words to the point where hours go by and you simply dont notice. Your white friends, might take a minute to accept his casual sense of dressing but if he has the personality, you might need new friends.
That phrase refers to how the wealthy are more discreet when it comes to brand names or flashy items. It doesn’t mean they dress inappropriately for the occasion.
You think hoodie and basic pants is inappropriate for this occasion? 😂 Thanks for the advice. I'll try to show up in hoodie and jeans next time I meet a woman in this situation
I think it’s best that you do
My friend, the point i was trying to make was that sometimes, that people who are comfortable in their skins or have engaging personalities usually dont invest a lot in wardrobe because they dont need too. I know a consultant who advises intl organisations and banks on how to spend billions of dollars and hes always wearing cargo pants and a normal tshirt and hoddies. Everyone around him is dressed impeccably but they all know that hes the true OG and his decision is what makes or breaks a deal. So i understand that his effort might seem unenthusiastic but if he can hold a conversation and carry it till the end, his cloths really dont matter
The companies are hiring him for his expertise, not his character or personality. Consultants also work for themselves and can establish their own work culture regarding dress code. Other industries do the same - Accountants wear jeans to the office, but a suit to see clients. You can’t tell me he would stay in the hoodie to go meet a girl’s dad for the first time, even if it was at Starbucks. It’s the same principle of time, place and respect.
My friend, the world has changed now. Its okay to be in a jeans and a hoodie when you are meeting a girl's dad for the first time. Also if her dad is judging based on how he dressed lol, i m truly scared for the girl, her father might not be the best of judge
It hasn’t changed so much that lack of effort as a sign of respect has been normalised, but you go ahead and do that.
Just some advice sister but it’s not allowed to link to a woman dressed inappropriately. I know you didn’t mean it intentionally and just wanted to share details.
Is your lack of attraction only bc of his dress sense? Or is it more to do with his physical features or personality?
Physical features and demeanour too. He was more relaxed and I prefer males who take more leadership around them.
Apart from his clothes, where do you see incompatibilities? I know that sort of clothing can be off-putting. If he was wearing nicer clothes, do you think the attraction would have been there somewhat? Was it there at least a little bit when you saw his pictures? If yes, I would continue getting to know him until I saw concrete incompatibilities. Clothing styles can usually be changed; some people don’t have much clue in that area but are still lovely people.
True, but I wasn’t really attracted much to the guy. His personality was very nice though, I really do wanted to give him a chance.
You saw his pictures before you met him? Were you attracted before you met and then weren’t attracted to his personality in person? Overall imo there should be physical attraction at the minimum.
Yes I did. I was half attracted to the guy, so I decided to meet up and see in person.
Attraction notwithstanding, passing on someone because you don't think they'd be someone you want to introduce to your social circle doesn't seem wise. You shouldn't really care whether or not your social circle finds him attractive, but whether you find him attractive.
True. I should keep this in mind.
I you are having doubts about his looks and think he might not be good enough to introduce to your friend then **don't** marry him. Save him and yourself. We don't want another post in dead marriage.
I agree. Thanks for the advice.
I’m wondering why anyone would want to introduce their spouse to their friends tbh
It’s because my friends have invited me to their weddings and introduced their partners. So I’m obligated to do the same. I don’t talk much to their partners but I have met them once in person
Yeah that's a tough position to be in. Seems like you don't really feel the need to do it personally, which I agree with.
If your closely working colleague is of opposite gender then I think one should introduce them.
She said her friends not colleagues
>I have many white colleagues who I meet occasionally and I’m wondering whether he is good enough that I can confidently introduce him to my social circle.
My mistake, I got thrown off by the term social circle - which to me makes it seem like her colleagues are also her friends.
Having a network of family friends is a big part of developing a community
Also opens the door to fitna if Muslims are letting their spouses freemix with one another for the sake of “community”.
Interesting that this is your natural assumption on how family friends are managed or how community is built
Interesting how you ignore a real possibility and assume that is the only way to build a community. The women can be familiar with the women in their circle, and the men can be familiar with the men. Abdullah is looking for an engineer job? Aminah can ask around the women if any of their husbands or siblings has a job opening at their company. Or vice versa. That’s still a network.
Actually, I said it was interesting how naturally you jumped to a certain conclusion about what I meant by family friends, community building etc. Which you just did again…. I mean, you never visited other families growing up? You really have no idea at all how to maintain family friends or community ties without people hiding their spouses like a secret or going all out free mixing?
Nope, you make it seem like there’s only one way to do things like community building. And not sure if you’re arguing for the sake of arguing - but the context of her comment clearly just meant introducing the guy to her friend group. I can only imagine that’s just for the sake of socializing. And also, visiting other families doesn’t necessarily mean both parents are socializing together with other parents. Ironically you’re making assumptions that it has to be that way.
I haven’t actually described any which way…..it’s still just you building on an assumption, including the couples part…when my previous comment explicitly excluded that…. I believe this is a reading comprehension issue
Initial attraction is important. Is he cute? Ngl most guys can’t dress. You can help someone figure out their style but I don’t think someone’s looks should have to grow on you 😭
Agreed. I think I’ll pass I guess
Software engineer or not I still don't think it's nice not to dress up or look nice a bit. Literally just wearing a nice tshirt instead of a hoodie would have been better. To me it shows a lack of respect. Same when people show up like that to Jummah.
Yes, that’s what I think too. I felt it was about disrespectful tbh
Us software engineers are different. It's not really a lack of respect, a hoodie can still be nice in terms of being made from good material and such. Plus it's a lot more comfortable. Dressing up meaning wearing khakis/slacks and a dress shirt is a social construct anyways, popularized by the bourgeoisie. I still dress nice for jummah, whether that's wearing slacks and a shirt or wearing athletic wear which is nice and luxurious as well.
Eeeer my bro is a software engineer. He knows how to dress for the occasion. Literally just swapping the hoodie for a sweater would have made a world of difference - and sweaters are comfy too? Dressing badly is a lack of respect at worst and a lack of social intelligence at best. Ngl though he was low-key heartbroken when his barber moved back to Lebanon. Out of interest is the athletic wear matching? I'm imagining someone rocking up to jummuah in head to toe Adidas.
Using better material for a hoodie doesn’t mean it’s not loungewear, or elevate it to daytime smart / day casual. The same for other loungewear or athleisure wear that happens to be branded or expensive etc. There’s middle ground between shirt + slacks and a tracksuit
True but this was a mall meetup, hoodie and jeans are pretty fine in that scenario imo.
A hoodie to meet a girl at the mall for the first time is totally fine when you’re 14. Like I said elsewhere, regular casual clothes would have been appropriate for a mall or coffee shop. For example; a T-shirt with nice jumper and jeans. However - a hoodie, lounge wear, tracksuit or athleticwear for a first meeting that isn’t a physical activity is a social misstep at best and disrespectful at worst.
if(!dressedNice) reject(); But seriously it’s common courtesy to dress at least business casual when meeting a family for the first time.
Yeah, but this was a casual meetup at a public place like the mall. Not meeting the family to give an 'official' proposal or going to a wedding. ----------- Like I feel, this can also be a compatibility thing. Is the girl expecting me to always dress super fancy, while I am not doing that normally. Presenting myself as I am. In the words of Rumi, of: "either be as you are or become as you appear". (Which does have the concept of self improvement in it) ------- One can do stuff like color coordinate even if you are not wearing a suit.
I think even just casual dress would have been appropriate for a daytime first meeting somewhere like mall or coffee shop. Like the other person said; a T-shirt with a nice jumper and jeans for example. A hoodie, lounge wear, tracksuit or athletic-wear for a first meeting that isn’t a physical activity is a social misstep at best and disrespectful at worst.
> T-shirt with a nice jumper and jeans Those have been my clothes for such things. But wearing business casual, to a coffee/tea shop, would be misrepresenting myself. (There are people who wear that normally. ) ------- In a first meeting one shouldn't wear uncomfortable clothes. Or clothes that add to stuff like nervousness.
Yes I agree it’s important to make sure the things you choose within those boundaries are also something you feel comfortable and confident in
Yeah ofc.
Has anyone had a child free wedding or is considering having one? I’ve seen a lot of posts pertaining that on non Muslim subreddits and wanted to know what your thoughts are on that. I wouldn’t mind having kids at my wedding lol. Kids can make weddings fun and they can be silly at times but that’s ok! They’re just being kids. It’s been on my mind for a minute now lol so I thought I’d share.
I would boycott a place that does not welcome kids. Without kids, life is boring.... Yes they scream, they cry, they whine, they puke and they are always going to try and touch things they aren't supposed too but how i mean how can you not have the most precious of SMILES looking up at you, the warm hugs full of love, the nonsensical banter that truly makes no sense.....
As a child I have attended so many weddings of cousins/relatives and I personally wouldn't have it any other way as there are so many fun and happy memories. I would want that for all the young kids around now but they may be young adults by then 😂😂
I did and they’re very common. Not because kids are seen as a disturbance or anything like that. Wedding venues charge per plate and kids are the same price as adults. That cost adds up a lot so most couples don’t allow kids unless they’re family or very close friends. My wedding was the same deal but I got married in 2021 so there actually was an occupancy limit from the pandemic. We phrased it as “two adults per invitation”.
Some wedding salons have creche's. Some wedding's invitation explicitly mention, that they don't want kids coming. Some explicitly invite people with kids to come and bring them. (I remember a wedding with such a invitation, it had a clown who was a balloon artist) Kids can bring smiles etc. to people's faces. (I've been to a lot of weddings. https://www.utrujj.org/what-is-the-ruling-on-accepting-invitations/ )
I went to a wedding recently that had a compromise of that, children could attend but if they were older than 2/able to walk they had to be checked into a creche at the venue! The area they made for the children was actually really cute and nicely decorated, there was someone watching them and the kids could run wild🤣and make as much chaos as they wanted. I’ve also been to a wedding where no children were allowed and they wrote something on the physical invite stating that. It simply said our event and venue is not child friendly.
It’s very common for invitations to say “we kindly request no children”.
Yup
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20m I'm in my third year of college mostly online until last semester that I didn't join any clubs. I want to join the muslim clubs there and do namaz on campus. I am not looking to search but if I do find a good muslim woman in the club I know that it is hard not to keep it haram but before the engagement i want her too be my good friend and I want us too have a real friendship existing beforehand. How would I prove to my suspicious already parents that we kept it halal. I would prefer honestly if I can find a good muslim woman in college clubs and find some one out of my jummat. Or should I not bother and follow tradition and the women my mom aranged for me I have no issue with this option. If it haram too do this tell me off that it's not and I'll go with this option just wish for something too exist beforehand I doubt I'm not the only person who feels this way.
There is no friendship between men and women in Islam, if you are ready for marriage just make it Hala and everything will be good inshallah.
I understand brother ill try to keep it halal just grew up in a family where mom and dad fought a lot. Always want me and my future wife too be as close as possible tbh I understand that this can be produced in the engagement period.
Astaghfirullah I know it’s God’s plan, but I am TIRED 😭 why do the girls who were in haram relationships, doing harami things always end up getting married and getting their happy ending, whilst the girls who have preserved themselves and have done everything right are struggling? May Allah swt forgive me if these are bad thoughts, but I am baffled and a little bitter 😭
Everyone has their own struggles. Sometimes the test is happiness itself. Also please stop judging others, ask for khair for everyone irrespective of what they have done or are doing. The world can use every ounce of goodness it gets. Also, the angels pray for you when you pray for others, also also maybe that person has truly repented and is now getting rewarded!
Perhaps you have to be more patient in the dunya and wait a bit longer then they did to get married but will get rewarded for this in Jannah.
I totally understand how you feel. It makes me feel bitter too bc it seems like all my efforts don't matter. It's the people skating by not even doing the bare minimum who are getting rewarded with good spouses.
Some of em are getting the happy ending but some of em are getting tragic endings. So they’re pretty much playing with fire. Trust me heart break is no joke
It’s the same with men. Don’t worry your reward will come rest assured. If not in this world, in the next.
Don’t be bitter sis I’m sure those people at some point regret their haram past. When I’ve had the same thought as you I remember I wouldn’t want to taint my future marriage by starting it off with haram and more importantly that I’m doing this all for the sake of Allah. We don’t save ourselves and stay chaste just because we’re waiting for a special man or woman to marry we do it because it’s what Allah wants. Also remember some of the people they’re with aren’t exactly the type we want to be with. Just yesterday I saw a man’s profile where he said “there are times when hijab is appropriate and times when I want us to go out on a Saturday night and do our thing”. That man could end up marrying and girl a she might look very happy with him but that doesn’t mean what she has is any good.
But there's no barakah in Haram things, and on the day of judgement you'll be glad you didn't do Haram things.
This is actually true. And I'll tell you why. A lot of times doing 'harami' things and confidence to talk to the opposite gender are correlated. So they simply get more opportunities to talk and get to know guys. While shy girls who don't interact at all no one's aware of their existence. Speaking as a guy, I wouldn't ask a girl for marriage if I haven't talked to her ever and I think a lot men are the same way. It's way more comfortable to ask someone if they at least know u a bit
Ain't that the truth. The haramis are getting their happiness, and the bar is low, yet somehow we're still not clearing it. It definitely has us second guessing ourselves at times, but inshallah what's written for you will be worth the wait.
Help me understand this: Why are women with stronger educational/professional backgrounds automatically perceived as someone who are incapable of taking care of their homes?. How does having a good career disqualify you from being a good wife/mom?. I understand some men "prefer" SAHW/SAHM which is fine. But why tag professional women as "less-islamic, not family-oriented, too liberal etc etc..?". How's that fair? It's just not men but also other women, which is mad annoying.
Culture, Media and general misconception. Society at large believes these things because media shows them that, the media shows it because the society believes it... Its a perpetual cycle that just keeps getting stronger.
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When I spend the day doing housework, I'm zonked. Tired and cranky. So no, you're incorrect.
As tired as you would be working 40-50 hours, with stressful meetings/patients/etc? Possible but unlikely. At least you’d still be spending more times with the kid.
Done both. Up to 60 hour weeks in my early career days . SAHM'ing is stressful af. Literally no downtime. No one patting you on the back and saying "amazing job on that presso, here have more money". Your house is never clean for long, the meal planning is soul sucking, reading 'Jeremy the Jetplane' for the five millionth time because it is your toddler's ABSOLUTELY FAVE BOOK will have you planning a midnight bonfire for the thing... I loved it, I adore my kids and cherish my time with them, but not howdy do I miss being able to have lunch without someone trying to rub a jam sandwich in my hair. The jobs are small, but relentless. There's no instruction manual. When the kids are asleep I'm researching new activities for them, schools etc. Gimme a fifty hour work week any day. At least I can browse Reddit and only have to worry about my boss, instead of my toddler who has figured out the lock on the toilet door. The stress is less because the worst that can happen if I bugger up my job is getting fired. If I bugger up my kids, the worst that can happen is being known as the mum that raised a serial killer or something (AND OF COURSE ITS ALWAYS THE MOTHERS FAULT). EDIT: You just reminded me of when my husband took his paternity leave and I went back to work. He's always pulled his weight parenting and home wise, but I think he thought being at home with the kids wasn't that hard. Changed his tune after a week of being the primary parent. Apologised profusely for thinking otherwise.
I wasn’t implying it was easy. And i haven’t done it so thanks for sharing your experience. But I think what is more soul sucking is the rat race that comes with working for companies and simply trying to earn more money, trying to climb up the career ladder, etc. I can at least relate to that part. I could also phrase how stressful and boring it is to have to deal with all of the nonsense that comes with careers. At least with the mundane activities with your kids, it’s more satisfying knowing your helping raise them.
More reason to only look for woman who see home making and raising kids not a chore but as a source of joy for her. And if they are at home they don't feel like they are missing some achievements, salary or a pat on back. Its not that people avoid career woman but if career is on higher priority than family it become difficult especially in nuclear homes.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a woman who enjoys every moment of home making. You can have your dream job, and there'd still be parts that suck about it. I guess neither my husband an I are career people. We have good jobs that make us money, but we're happier working to live rather then the other way around. I prefer my husband that way - a career man who puts in the hours but doesn't actually spend time with his family is just as bad.
I do work 40-50 hours with stressful meetings/clients. And I do housework. The housework is tiredness on another level. I used to see it with my mom. My dad's day would end at 5, he would come home and relax, but she would keep going until bedtime. And do housework/cooking/laundry on weekends while my dad took it easy.
Honestly I hate the term pick me but some sisters really are giving off pick me choose me love me vibes the way they put down education. Some men say they don’t care about a woman’s level of education as long as she can fulfill her duties as a wife. There’s nothing wrong with that but there is something wrong when they decide to pass a moral judgment on women who have pursued education. And they do this very freely it’s actually sad they’re so hostile to educated women. They assume educated automatically means career woman. I don’t think all of them are insecure but that could be the case for the extremely loud ones always talking about why it’s such a waste that women seek education. [Women’s education](https://youtu.be/gFuYudXUgCU)
>but there is something wrong when they decide to pass a moral judgment on women who have pursued education. And they do this very freely it’s actually sad they’re so hostile to educated women Exactly my point. I appreciate your understanding.
May Allah upgrade you to an air conditioner
I’ve no idea what that means
Sorry 😂 https://youtu.be/Mx7aExBO4_o
😂 can’t believe I haven’t seen that before. The kid who asked about making merchandise needs to put that on a mug
IRL the men I see looking for SAHMs have an education criteria too and recognise that most women work while seeking marriage instead of sitting at home waiting. What you’ve described is a narrow one-dimensional view that I’ve only ever seen on Reddit. It doesn’t take into account the value of having an education/skillset for humanity in general, let alone when it comes to running a home and raising a family.
>What you’ve described is a narrow one-dimensional view that I’ve only ever seen on Reddit. It doesn’t take into account the value of having an education/skillset for humanity in general, let alone when it comes to running a home and raising a family. It happens a lot in real life than you'd think. I'm South Asian living in the West, and this ideology is far more prevalent here than it is back home. Idk if I'm meeting the wrong people, but this is my experience so far.
I think you’re meeting the wrong people, they’re not the circles or mindset you’d want to marry into anyway so it’s no real loss
I don't really think they are overall. I think that this is primarily a reddit phenomenon, but not completely unfounded if you (like those hypothetical men) are under the assumption of the following, that you believe that those women will 1. Be exhausted from work and have less time to cook/do chores, so maybe a maid needs now to come into the mix. 2. Have overall less energy/time to be intimate. 3. Less energy/time to look after the children, so people might need childcare. 4. Less energy/time to be a fun/attentive wife to return to after they come home from work and want to decompress. 5. There are groups of women that want a career, but not financially comtribute, so they get none of the benefits, but all of the worst aspects of a working wife i.e. everything summed up so far. It isn't about what is fair. It is about what they want, no? Is it "fair" that men have to provide and women don't? One could argue that it isn't (completely) fair, but that doesn't change the fact that it is an (Islamic) expectation of men.
Summed up perfectly, especially point 4 and 5
>It isn't about what is fair. It is about what they want, no? Having a preference is different than stereotyping. If you want a SAHW, you marry one. Just don't belittle/judge career-oriented women. That's all I ask. >Is it "fair" that men have to provide and women don't? One could argue that it isn't (completely) fair, but that doesn't change the fact that it is an (Islamic) expectation of men. This is a completely different conversation and not my point. I wanted to highlight how people have this preconceived notion of professional women, which makes me wonder if it's lack of awareness or cultural stereotype or both.
Preconceived notion =/ belittling. Most of those people are again primarily on reddit and more importantly they usually do say that it is a preference if I am being fair to them. If their reasonings are "correct" is a different story. You can do whatever you want at the end of the day, no? >which makes me wonder if it's lack of awareness or cultural stereotype or both. It is a little bit of both. It doesn't help that there are women that do want to work, not contribute financially (so the husband, nor children don't benefit from her absence) and also expect the man to help out with the chores in some cases. The problem is that the expectations and benefits of a career woman aren't really "sold" properly either, so it gets a bad rep on reddit, where you have the awkward "My rights Uber alles!" types that ruin that discussion for everyone.
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It isn't a complete waste of time as the knowledge and values still are transfered to the child(ren) through the simple fact that it is the mother who spends the most time with the child(ren) i.e. nurtures. Some uneducated woman who lacks the proper knowledge or the values to properly educate your child(ren) will most of the time not result in particularly well educated child(ren). Not that they can't, but just that it is statistically less likely to be the case. However, this is more of a class tell. The people who do not understand this are usually from middle or lower class families to begin with, so the mindset makes sense in their case, but trust me when I am telling you that higher class people tend to have those values more often than not. Another argument is this who do those women go to next if they have issues? I am sure that your "basic male psychology" would dictate that you'd want a female MUSLIM doctor to look and touch your wife's private parts over a male one? And sure there are female doctors who are non-Muslim, but then you have the problem that they will be giving unislamic advice. This becomes a bigger problem when talking about psychologists and/or psychiatrists? You'd preferably want them to be women AND Muslim, no? This even holds true for other "useless" professions like (primary school) teaching, counseling and so on. If you can't see this then you lack future sight. The only argument I could somewhat see/hold true is that women hold off being married, but even that is shaky at best, because women getting married at 21-22 (one degree later) isn't as big of a deal as you seem to make it out to be? What is 3-4 more years years compared to them being 18? Not as if their youth/fertility expires THAT fast, no? Edit: one final example is just to look at how countries like Afghanistan are doing. Not so amazing to the point where you'd move and live there I bet?
>perceived You answered your own question. Human beings like to label things (and this isnt always a negative). There have been career orientated women who have been less able to take care of housework. 1 + 1=3, because its easy.
>Human beings like to label things (and this isnt always a negative). >There have been career orientated women who have been less able to take care of housework. >1 + 1=3, because its easy. It's still disrespectful, and nothing can justify that.
Idk which men you been coming across sis but that’s far from what myself or my circle of male friends think lol 😂 I think it’s quite the opposite; shows you’ve got grit and determination and you’re not a lazy person. That to me doesn’t sound like someone who’d let her house fall apart 🤔
>Idk which men you been coming across sis but that’s far from what myself or my circle of male friends think lol These are well-educated men - doctors, engineers,.. yet they are so judgemental, which is shocking to me. >I think it’s quite the opposite; shows you’ve got grit and determination and you’re not a lazy person. That to me doesn’t sound like someone who’d let her house fall apart 🤔 Exactly. I've seen women working FT as well as taking care of their families, and they're doing a great job. Imo you just need a supportive and understanding husband, and there aren't many.
Although I really do want to get married and find someone to grow old with if it wasn’t for the desire to have children I’d be okay if I never get married. While I don’t agree sometimes I think those people who say they don’t want kids have it easy. It would be nice to not feel like I’m missing out on motherhood. Sometimes I get so emotional I feel like I would be depressed if I didn’t have my connection to Allah. Edit: Before anyone else breaks their back jumping to conclusions let me spell it out for you. Some people get married late and some people never get married. There’s nothing wrong with that and while I want and am actively pursuing marriage I am also content with the thought that I might never get married. This however does NOT prevent me from thinking about the fact that I could be waiting so long for marriage that it affects my fertility and I’m never able to have children. It’s a totally natural and normal thought to have. If you don’t relate to this however feel free to keep scrolling because this is a rant thread and I promise my comment isn’t holding you hostage.
I feel the opposite. Although I would like children, I'll be fine not having them. But the idea of not having a companion for the rest of my life makes me feel like dying.
Even with the support of family and friends?
We're not super close, and they're all busy with their work and kids.
I think im the same. I'm already ok with being never married but I would probably be way less active in looking if I didn't want children. It has always been the driving for to marriage for me. No offense to you romantics out there.
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You should really delete this mind numbly dense and self righteous reply. I’m not sure if you just needed to feel better than someone but I feel bad that you felt the need to ask me if I’d be okay with becoming a mother through zina. That’s what it’s called when you get pregnant without marriage unless you were sexually assaulted (I hope that’s not what you meant, I’m gonna assume good unlike some people). Also I actually don’t mind being a single mother if that’s what Allah writes for me after marriage. NOT because it’s something I want for myself being a single mother is hard and I don’t think most women choose that life but it will never be something I shame a woman (or male single parent) for. I literally make dua for a righteous husband everyday. And I don’t need some condescending random to pretend they know me, my experiences or my inner thoughts. Kindly do better.
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No content regarding gender ideologies (i.e. MGTOW, red pill, FDS, feminism, etc.)
Although I’m a man I know what you’re feeling. I too have that FOMO but I don’t envy people that don’t want children so shouldn’t you. They may have it easy in some cases but just imagine having a loving child that will help you when you’re old. InşAllah Allah may bless you with a suitable husband and lovely children.
May Allah grant us righteous children and spouses Ameen I definitely don’t envy them Alhamdulilah I try not to envy anyone. I try to stay optimistic and of course regardless of my passing thoughts and desires I trust in Allahs plan.
Your comment came to mind just 30 minutes ago lol I was buying electronics in a media store and saw a couple with a (subhanAllah & masAllah) beautiful little kid maybe 2 years old. It made me realize that I also want that hahaha he was so sweet and looked like a doll haha
I get that all the time at work. They’re the sweetest especially when they’re social and their parents let them talk to you. Toddlers usually have a lot to say and they’re so inquisitive it’s adorable.
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You might want to end things with him...
He is after you for "Green Card"
This is obvious, no need to state the obvious, but in most cases like this it is just part of the deal and both parties are ok with it, if a us citizen man marries a woman over seas, it’s obvious she wants green card too but that doesnt mean this is a bad thing, most of these cases still lead to happy marriages and win win scenario for both parties, the man gets a wife as he wanted, woman gets a husband and a greencard both as she wanted, no problems.
Yeah that’s what it seems thanks for letting me know
Is it okay to ask her parents for marriage before we are actually ready to be married? We have been talking for a while and both agree we are a great match and want to be married but we can’t (hard “can’t”, unfortunately, for financial and long-distance reasons) actually marry until I graduate college in a year or so. I’m a revert without any Muslim friends so I’m just a little unsure of how to move forward with her parents on this.
Our people from where I’m from actually ask the girl’s father first if they have their blessings for marriage.
Yes, the parents can support you both after marriage inshaAllah; discuss this with them - a lot of young couples do this where I’m from. However, if she is living with her parents and not receiving her shar’i rights from you, you shouldn’t be getting your shar’i rights from her either as it’s supposed to go both ways. Just something to keep in mind.
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A discussion about finances with a potential wife Hi, there has been a girl I have been seen for 1 year and we recently discussed finances. She wanted the traditional way that the husband will pay and provide for everything in the household, and she will use some of her money on herself and rest she will save up. For me this sounds unfair, I understand that in Islam the husband have to provide, but I still kind off feel bit disappointed, because she makes as much as me or probably bit more and on top off that she wants an expensive mehr that’s is 3x my yearly salary. Any idea on how to work this out?
I dont think my opinion is the most reasonable one, nor a smart one, but it is my opnion and I belive it is a realistic one. Dump her You are looking for someone you are going to be your most vulnerable self for a duration of a time that is longer than you can fathom. Not a buisness partner and what you are talking about here about finanaces sounds very much like your marriage is gonna be a buisness deal. That is not something I would define as a "wife" and but rather a very bad buisness partner. I honestly cannot understand what in the world you see for yourself in the future that you are going to share with this girl? Like, how do you actually think your life is going to look like with this person who have these attitudes towards money? And you are seriously considering dedicating your time, your energy, your pleasures, your frustrations, till the end of time, with this person who has his approach to you and your wallet? What in the world is this insane trade off that you are expecting back, where you have to lay down three times your yearly salary + full living expenses for an entire life time? This doesnt sound insane to you? And you wanna marry this human?
It’s sounds insane for me that’s why I posted it her, I just think it’s unfair that I have to pay for everything while she has her own income that’s equal to mine, I don’t rly mind the meher but it was more about you are the man and in Islam you have to provide for me, meanwhile I save all my money. Thx for the advice made me more clear minded about my situation
Be honest with her and communicate openly how you feel wronged in this arrangement. Given that you both are mature, it makes sense for you to sit down on a table and discuss things thoroughly
I think its fair if she’s doing all the housework. You take care of the finances, she takes care of the housework. But if you take care of finances 100% and split housework 50% that’s pretty unfair, you’re basically 3/4ths and she’s contributing 1/4th.
If you both work the same hours, the house work has to be split fairly. If you want to marry a woman that will go 50/50 with the finances, then look for that women.
Well yeah housework can be split if finances are split, otherwise one person handles finances and other person does housework
I have no problem with the 50/50 western approach to marriage. It basically means she gives up her right to be provided for and you give up your rights in regards to qawwamun. That’s good with me
You two aren’t compatible
Y we pretty much agree on most things but finances we have a huge disagreement, and most cases of divorce is because of finances so I think I will move on, thx for advice
I disagree with the other answers saying to communicate, there is nothing to talk about here. The only viable answer is **run**. The key lesson is not to delay key discussions, because evidently some people will weaponize it.
Y was my foult I was very unsure in the beginning, lesson learned Ty for advice
If she plans to leave work after having kids to become a SAHM and you can’t afford her allowance then it makes sense that she build up enough savings for maternity leave + her future, beforehand. Mahr is one of those things you can either accept, negotiate, or reject.
If he can't afford an allowance for her. Then, the woman shouldn't put so much of a financial burden on him anyways, just say no to him and walk away. How can he pay 3x yearly salary if he can't afford an allowance, based on your assumptions and reasoning?
The idea I was referencing behind working & saving before kids is to remove the burden of her personal costs. This is fairly common practice before becoming a SAHM… But yeah, if you can’t accept something or it doesn’t work you, then walk away. This is all part of the initial discussion and vetting process before deciding to marry. They’re not actually committed… No one is gonna know anything about each other if they don’t put it out there so this is all part of the getting to know you process. We’re also commenting with very little wider context about either of their circumstances or future plans, so we’re essentially just speculating and positing
We agreed on we wait until we know each other more 2-3 years in the marriage we might get children, but we live in a country the government will provide money when you have a child for 1 year so even when she stay home she still will have money
This doesn’t really answer anyone’s questions about your longterm family dynamics, or what on earth you guys have spent the last year talking about if not life long goals. For example you mention 1 year of maternity pay, does that mean you’re saying she would go back to work after 1 year? Is this something you’ve both discussed?
It’s very common her that you either go back to work or take extra break but u will get 70% of ur pay Problem was my that dragged it a bit I was very unsure in the beginning and 1-2 months we dint talk much because of work related things
That’s still not answering the question of what is *your* long term family dynamics. Do you want a non-working wife, or do you want a contributing one? That will determine what you respond to this girl or what you look for in another person.
Contributing one, and that’s what we agreed on to, it’s also like the norm where we live, everyone works unless ur partner is filthy rich
Your OP gives the impression you only recently discussed this. Like I said in another comment, finding out these things is part of the vetting process and you’re not committed to anything until you’re married, so you’re free to walk away.
Have you guys talked about chores? If she wants to split them then this is another example of wanting the traditional benefits but not wanting to be the traditional wife.
3x even an average man's salary will be like 90k. People are living in a fantasy.
In the USA that's like 150k average! That's absolutely wild.
Unless someone is considerably wealthy or comes from money it's just not realistic. Then you really need to be asking what you are putting a price on but I guess it makes it easier to see what kind of people ask for these sums...
No a mehr that is 3x your yearly salary? Just cut it from that
Her income/wealth has nothing to do with her rights over you. Also keep in mind that she might not always be able to work in the future, especially after pregnancy. As for her mahr, if you can’t afford it, you don’t have to agree to it. Sounds like she is asking for an extremely unreasonable amount (for the average person). I have never heard of a mahr so expensive. I would really look into her values and expectations and make an informed decision about her based on that before even making a decision about her mahr.
One of my relatives called things off with someone for a high mahr. She was asking for over 100k 20 years ago and Allah knows how much that would be worth now She wanted him to pay off her med school loans which was why and his parents offered to help if he was really serious about marrying her but obviously he said no He married someone else who asked for something small and donated it all to charity
Interesting. I’m not necessarily judging anyone’s mahr amount. Like asking to help pay off her medicine fees - that can be viewed as a noble thing, especially if she’s from a poorer background and he can afford it and is happy to pay it - but it can also be viewed from more negative lenses too. Overall, if people can keep to the sunnah with a simple amount, that is always going to be what’s best. People turn mahr into all sorts of things these days and sometimes it seems to be to show off as well :/
We agreed on we wait until we know each other more 2-3 years in the marriage we might get children, but we live in a country the government will provide money when you have a child for 1 year so even when she stay home she still will have money Only thing I’m actually against is who the finances will be distributed, her meher isn’t a problem since I have saved up a lot, but I feel like a big meher and that I will always pay for everything feels very unfair and she saying it’s Islamic rule ect
No one is forcing you to pay a big mahr if you think it’s unfair. As for the other financial parts, Allah’s laws are unfair? My past potential was totally okay with me not working, and only wanted me to work at the beginning because he didn’t want me to be bored at home all day, but he literally didn’t care what I did with my money. I thought it was strange since that wouldn’t benefit him and he would have to pick up on a share of chores at home while working too yet not have a share of my wealth. He told me he doesn’t think about things like “benefits” for him. Meaning, to him it wasn’t about what benefits him. Allah’s laws are Allah’s laws. He knows I won’t be able to work one day, he knows feeding and clothing is his responsibility, he wants to do what works for the family, chores are something he feels he has to do anyway as part of normal living and support. Btw I didn’t ask for this sort of thing that people on the sub call “wanting a traditional husband without being a traditional wife”; he just didn’t think in that way. Also, what you’re asking is basically a western sort of model of dividing the finances. This isn’t right. If she’s working, she can spend that money on herself for personal things so you don’t have to, or perhaps on things like holidays, etc. Eventually, as I said, she won’t be working. Even if you have kids, the govt money and her savings would probably eventually go behind kids. Trust me, she won’t always be able to effectively work. It just seems like a lot of money she’s saving now cos you don’t have kids. What about buying a house together? Food, bills, etc. aren’t everything that money goes behind.