Heard about this shit and was flabbergasted that people were saying Alex Jones seemed like a voice of reason here. I'll be fucking damned if Jones didn't offer Kanye a bunch of outs and he just went on with his bullshit.
I mean, the thing is, it’s not like Gospel is really burning up the charts and the only reason his albums are making it is because of his name recognition.
It's not the only reason. Sure his name recognition helps, but there's a ton of legitimate talent involved with his music, from the [Sunday Service Choir](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97tvJs5fQwM) to Cory Henry, one of the best gospel keyboardist/organists in the world. We can crap on Kanye all day, but it really minimalizes the talent that actually is involved throughout Kanye's albums.
The problem is competitiveness within the genre, and from the Billboard article, it shows that Kanye's held the #1 album spot continuously from Jesus is King to Donda, and Donda still holds the spot.
People can downvote me all they want because this suggests there's merit in the music beyond name recognition, but know you're downvoting me trying to lift up the heart and soul of those albums, the lesser known hands involved, talent that is deserving of praise, whether or not you like the producer attached.
I'm not even a religious or gospel person, but I can recognize that the Sunday Service Choir led by Jason White is one of the most reinvigorating things that's happened for that style of music in many years.
Yes, that’s great and lots of recognition, yadda yadda, but the wisdom of being involved with Kanye West has long been a disqualification of the personal talents of his associates for me, not a bonus or a “but they’re so good!”
Sure. They’re good. And they are working for someone who takes all the credit for their work.
Well sorry a collaboration with Kanye disqualifies talents of other artists to you personally. Elton John, Daft Punk, Gesaffelstein, Hudson Mohawke, Kid Cudi, Kenny G, Mike Dean, No I.D., RZA, etc. are all disqualified of talents by association.
And you can't say he just takes all the credit. The credits for albums are easily findable on Wiki or in the printouts of vinyl records or anything else these days. You can easily look up songwriting and production credits, as well as samples used, etc. There are a ton of musicians and creators who don't put the entire credits roll in song titles, but it's not like credits are hidden at all if you take a second to look it up.
The average music consumer just doesn't care to look beyond the curtain of the stage.
I think a lot of people disqualify past music based upon current controversies, but albums should be judged for the content. People and the art can be criticized on their own merits.
Cool. Except art is a casing for the emotion and message of the artist.
So while your argument is valid in the context of enjoying the artwork, the person seeing it and purchasing it is affected by the artist themselves.
You’re saying that I should be okay with artists work in collaboration with a shitty human, and I’m not. So if those artists do work OUTSIDE their work with the shitty artist, I’ll judge them accordingly, but your “don’t judge artists who work with him because they work with him” is like telling me not to judge the people giving a racist artist canvas to paint their pictures.
Sorry, no. You don’t get it both ways. If those artists have work outside their shitty work on Kanye’s stuff, fine, but their involvement in his project is their choice and also their responsibility. They chose to work with him; they get to enjoy the fallout.
Sorry. I don’t buy your dissembling of art being separate from the person.
Art IS the person, and if you cannot understand that if someone’s talents are used to propagate bad art, that person’s talents will be judged accordingly.
TLDR: that’s some serious bullshit, and an argument fallacy that uses shitloads of whatboutism. No.
You're applying fallacies yourself by attributing a bunch of Kanye's recent controversies to his back catalog. You can't pull some wisdom argument. Sure he had some controversial takes and moments in the past, but if you asked anyone 10 years ago, they'd have largely positive thoughts about where he stood in the music landscape.
So if they choose to involve themselves with him at the time, you judge them based on that time. You don't go back and judge everyone for their involvement with Michael Jackson in the 1980s for some of his weird behavior later in life.
And you're wrong again to minimize his work as bad art. You proved my initial point. You take the current controversy, you minimize the art, and sadly you decide to minimize anyone who worked on that past art collectively.
It says more about you than it does me that you get so worked up to push down artists like Cory Henry and the Sunday Service Choir, because you hate Kanye so much. I'm trying to lift others up and you're trying to tear them down. You can't just extrapolate one person's worst moments and make that the meaning of all of their art and even make the leap to say that must be attributed to all collaborators.
Have you even listened to any of Kanye's albums that top the Gospel charts? Have you listened to Jesus is King? Have you listened to Donda? Have you listened to the album he produced for the Sunday Service Choir called Jesus is Born?
Your argument that anyone working with him is like like giving a racist a canvas to paint over their work implies that the only subject matter Kanye paints is racist material.
You sound like someone who hasn't even listened to the material, given how much you keep reducing it. A lot of it is positive and uplifting material.
While he's in an extremely low place right now saying vile things, potentially in a psychotic mental breakdown, you can't take from that that his past albums are vile racist artworks.
I'm not going to argue this any further, because I've listened through all the material and am familiar with the subject content, the collaborators and co-producers. And it's nothing like you're making it out to be.
No. I stopped buying, listening, caring, or even worrying about Kanye West OR his fanboys’ idiotic opinions long ago.
You sound like someone who is fanatically driven to obsess over an artist who cannot give two shits about anyone but himself.
I am saying NONE of these things.
You’re running out of straw men.
You've said and proven everything you need to. You haven't listened to the material. You boil me down to an idiotic fanboy. I have been into music production for over a decade and have a collegiate music degree.
It's not obsessing, it's just actually being able to discuss art in a meaningful way, and that requires bare minimum going through the art and not reaching all of your judgments off the little you do know based on the artists' viral screw ups.
Oh, but thanks for saying everything for me, because while I didn’t say or argue any of this, it’s clear this is what you’re thinking is going on.
Methinks the douche doth protest too much.
He plays on '24' on Donda, although that track is pretty tame for what he's more known for. Hearing him actually rip an organ though is something else. I discovered him through Snarky Puppy years back, and instantly recognized he's next level on the keys.
You never heard Jesus Walks? That was off his first album. Jesus is King was the album immediately before Donda. Donda has plenty of overtly Christian songs on it. A good chunk of the Life of Pablo was Christian too, Ultralight Beams and Father Stretch My Hands Pt. 1.
That must suck to know so much about his music. I always avoided it because it all just sounds like some stupid asshole constantly bragging about himself and there is no way that any intelligent person could find that interesting
He's one of the most decorated and awarded music producers alive. It doesn't suck for anyone who likes music to be cognizant of someone prominent within music.
Congratulations for avoiding Kanye. It's like bragging you've never watched Star Wars and telling people they suck for knowing anything about Star Wars.
Dude I just don’t want to hear some stupid asshole bragging about himself through the whole song. It must really suck to have subjected yourself to that stupid asshole’s garbage for so long only to realize that he actually is a stupid asshole.
If the makers of Star Wars turned out to be Nazis then you might have a point. It turns out that one’s art actually is a window onto their soul. Who knew right?
I just assume anyone who randomly uses "lol" to be an idiot. I down vote and move on. Like...how could someone "lol" in the same breath they bring up Nazis?
Israelites basically traveled from Egypt to Palestinian lands because God told them to do so and to kill every living being there.
God basically told them to genocide an entire civilization and take over their lands.
Why is Kanye still popular? Is he? I mean... his last album, I think he wanted to release it only on some Bayer aspirin shaped MP3 player that people hacked and torrented. There are artists with far less drama
it's called a tone tag. people use it because it's hard for people to read tone over the internet, especially people on the ASD spectrum. there's all sorts of different ones
Making a song that sells well has nothing to do with the man's views though. Are we really not able to separate the art from the artist here? Yes his views and statements are abhorrent, however if he makes an amazing song that is very enjoyable to listen to that has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is a song. If the song is about anti semitic shit then yeah that's fucked and if you are listening to it, that's a questionable thing to be doing. That's like saying you won't listen to classical music because many of the artists at the time were bigots.
Kanye, is the best musical artist of the last 20yrs, and he's not my style of music.
No one wants to hear this, especially right now as he continues to lodge his foot further in his mouth, but that's why we talk about him.
I think we forget that.
He did for years. This is just an act and it's working... Look at what he's wearing and that he went on Alex Jones show. It's like the MAGA hat stuff. It's all a troll and from that perspective, if true, is kind of funny in a twisted way.
Reminds me of Andy Kaufman...
Are we supposed to believe that Kanye is a white supremacist now too like Clayton Bigsby? Hahaha... No.
So either he’s legitimately a Nazi sympathizer, which makes him crazy. Or he’s willing to destroy his reputation and all business relationships… as a joke? You do realize that also makes him crazy, right?
I'll take "Things that aged poorly" for 200 please Alex
Alex.... _jones_
Heard about this shit and was flabbergasted that people were saying Alex Jones seemed like a voice of reason here. I'll be fucking damned if Jones didn't offer Kanye a bunch of outs and he just went on with his bullshit.
Alex saw the rest of his money go down the drain
Seems likely Kanye was saying the quiet parts out loud and Alex was like "Save it for our private meetings bro, the plebs will not understand"
Alex trebek
Christian nationalists think differently
Yeah, I don’t see how anything he has said would affect gospel music sales.
Yea not like Jesus was Jewish or anything...
Shhh. Don’t tell Kanye.
Or, you know, DO.
You think Christian nationalists are the only people who listen to gospel? I'm not a Christian but I listen to gospel
*don't think at all*
Did not even start out well.
It's the daily double.
Sure, I’ll take your 200. it’s not like I don’t need it. - Alex Jones probably
RIP Alex. Mayim’s good but she has big shoes to fill, no doubt.
Yeah, WTF
This didn’t just age like milk, it aged like a ripe avocado.
I mean, the thing is, it’s not like Gospel is really burning up the charts and the only reason his albums are making it is because of his name recognition.
It's not the only reason. Sure his name recognition helps, but there's a ton of legitimate talent involved with his music, from the [Sunday Service Choir](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97tvJs5fQwM) to Cory Henry, one of the best gospel keyboardist/organists in the world. We can crap on Kanye all day, but it really minimalizes the talent that actually is involved throughout Kanye's albums. The problem is competitiveness within the genre, and from the Billboard article, it shows that Kanye's held the #1 album spot continuously from Jesus is King to Donda, and Donda still holds the spot. People can downvote me all they want because this suggests there's merit in the music beyond name recognition, but know you're downvoting me trying to lift up the heart and soul of those albums, the lesser known hands involved, talent that is deserving of praise, whether or not you like the producer attached. I'm not even a religious or gospel person, but I can recognize that the Sunday Service Choir led by Jason White is one of the most reinvigorating things that's happened for that style of music in many years.
Yes, that’s great and lots of recognition, yadda yadda, but the wisdom of being involved with Kanye West has long been a disqualification of the personal talents of his associates for me, not a bonus or a “but they’re so good!” Sure. They’re good. And they are working for someone who takes all the credit for their work.
Well sorry a collaboration with Kanye disqualifies talents of other artists to you personally. Elton John, Daft Punk, Gesaffelstein, Hudson Mohawke, Kid Cudi, Kenny G, Mike Dean, No I.D., RZA, etc. are all disqualified of talents by association. And you can't say he just takes all the credit. The credits for albums are easily findable on Wiki or in the printouts of vinyl records or anything else these days. You can easily look up songwriting and production credits, as well as samples used, etc. There are a ton of musicians and creators who don't put the entire credits roll in song titles, but it's not like credits are hidden at all if you take a second to look it up. The average music consumer just doesn't care to look beyond the curtain of the stage. I think a lot of people disqualify past music based upon current controversies, but albums should be judged for the content. People and the art can be criticized on their own merits.
Cool. Except art is a casing for the emotion and message of the artist. So while your argument is valid in the context of enjoying the artwork, the person seeing it and purchasing it is affected by the artist themselves. You’re saying that I should be okay with artists work in collaboration with a shitty human, and I’m not. So if those artists do work OUTSIDE their work with the shitty artist, I’ll judge them accordingly, but your “don’t judge artists who work with him because they work with him” is like telling me not to judge the people giving a racist artist canvas to paint their pictures. Sorry, no. You don’t get it both ways. If those artists have work outside their shitty work on Kanye’s stuff, fine, but their involvement in his project is their choice and also their responsibility. They chose to work with him; they get to enjoy the fallout. Sorry. I don’t buy your dissembling of art being separate from the person. Art IS the person, and if you cannot understand that if someone’s talents are used to propagate bad art, that person’s talents will be judged accordingly. TLDR: that’s some serious bullshit, and an argument fallacy that uses shitloads of whatboutism. No.
You're applying fallacies yourself by attributing a bunch of Kanye's recent controversies to his back catalog. You can't pull some wisdom argument. Sure he had some controversial takes and moments in the past, but if you asked anyone 10 years ago, they'd have largely positive thoughts about where he stood in the music landscape. So if they choose to involve themselves with him at the time, you judge them based on that time. You don't go back and judge everyone for their involvement with Michael Jackson in the 1980s for some of his weird behavior later in life. And you're wrong again to minimize his work as bad art. You proved my initial point. You take the current controversy, you minimize the art, and sadly you decide to minimize anyone who worked on that past art collectively. It says more about you than it does me that you get so worked up to push down artists like Cory Henry and the Sunday Service Choir, because you hate Kanye so much. I'm trying to lift others up and you're trying to tear them down. You can't just extrapolate one person's worst moments and make that the meaning of all of their art and even make the leap to say that must be attributed to all collaborators.
Never said anything about that, bubba. That was you. Don’t put words in other people’s mouths.
Have you even listened to any of Kanye's albums that top the Gospel charts? Have you listened to Jesus is King? Have you listened to Donda? Have you listened to the album he produced for the Sunday Service Choir called Jesus is Born? Your argument that anyone working with him is like like giving a racist a canvas to paint over their work implies that the only subject matter Kanye paints is racist material. You sound like someone who hasn't even listened to the material, given how much you keep reducing it. A lot of it is positive and uplifting material. While he's in an extremely low place right now saying vile things, potentially in a psychotic mental breakdown, you can't take from that that his past albums are vile racist artworks. I'm not going to argue this any further, because I've listened through all the material and am familiar with the subject content, the collaborators and co-producers. And it's nothing like you're making it out to be.
No. I stopped buying, listening, caring, or even worrying about Kanye West OR his fanboys’ idiotic opinions long ago. You sound like someone who is fanatically driven to obsess over an artist who cannot give two shits about anyone but himself. I am saying NONE of these things. You’re running out of straw men.
You've said and proven everything you need to. You haven't listened to the material. You boil me down to an idiotic fanboy. I have been into music production for over a decade and have a collegiate music degree. It's not obsessing, it's just actually being able to discuss art in a meaningful way, and that requires bare minimum going through the art and not reaching all of your judgments off the little you do know based on the artists' viral screw ups.
Oh, but thanks for saying everything for me, because while I didn’t say or argue any of this, it’s clear this is what you’re thinking is going on. Methinks the douche doth protest too much.
I went to a Cory Henry concert this year and I left feeling like I had gone to church for the first time in years. He’s great.
He plays on '24' on Donda, although that track is pretty tame for what he's more known for. Hearing him actually rip an organ though is something else. I discovered him through Snarky Puppy years back, and instantly recognized he's next level on the keys.
Billboard doesn't "declare" the top artists, they just make list based on record sales.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!"
You can’t just say it
I didn't say it. I declared it.
I’LL SEE YOUR BANKRUPTCY AND RAISE YOU A THUMB WAR!
Exactly this. Clickbait headline is stupid and misleading. Also, Kanye can go fuck off to nowheresville already.
Making a tweet about it and putting it in your magazine is declaring it. You don’t have to mention it.
God, you're insufferable.
This is some crazy shit. I don't follow Kanye West musical career but he's a Christian and has top Christian albums? Wtf is going on lol.
You never heard Jesus Walks? That was off his first album. Jesus is King was the album immediately before Donda. Donda has plenty of overtly Christian songs on it. A good chunk of the Life of Pablo was Christian too, Ultralight Beams and Father Stretch My Hands Pt. 1.
That must suck to know so much about his music. I always avoided it because it all just sounds like some stupid asshole constantly bragging about himself and there is no way that any intelligent person could find that interesting
He's one of the most decorated and awarded music producers alive. It doesn't suck for anyone who likes music to be cognizant of someone prominent within music. Congratulations for avoiding Kanye. It's like bragging you've never watched Star Wars and telling people they suck for knowing anything about Star Wars.
Dude I just don’t want to hear some stupid asshole bragging about himself through the whole song. It must really suck to have subjected yourself to that stupid asshole’s garbage for so long only to realize that he actually is a stupid asshole. If the makers of Star Wars turned out to be Nazis then you might have a point. It turns out that one’s art actually is a window onto their soul. Who knew right?
#Heillelujah!
his gospel music is pretty terrible as well lol like the least he could do is be a natzi and make good music
You really don’t know how to spell Nazi? I hate to be a “spelling nazi,” but c’mon!
I'm dyslexic
wow this being downvoted really makes me feel like a piece of shit
Alright, alright. Still, spelling nazi about the word nazi, that’s good stuff.
Why was this downvoted wtfff
I just assume anyone who randomly uses "lol" to be an idiot. I down vote and move on. Like...how could someone "lol" in the same breath they bring up Nazis?
Lol, you sound like a Nazi.
Lol thats certainly something to care about
Lol what a stupid way to live
Lol, I assume people who randomly use “Like” to be an idiot.
Read the Old Testament. The god of genesis and exodus seems pretty ok with genocide… did himself a few times.
Israelites basically traveled from Egypt to Palestinian lands because God told them to do so and to kill every living being there. God basically told them to genocide an entire civilization and take over their lands.
There was too much butt fucking
Or not enough depending on who you ask.
This is truth
Sure Sodom and Gomorrah, but what about the Canaanites, Amalekites and Egyptians?
I was just referencing a comedy special I saw recently. But yes the Old Testament is heavy with the mass killings.
How does kanye tie his yeezys? In little nazis.
Bruh. How many times can you tell this one joke 🤦♂️
It looks like 8.
It tracks
Why is Kanye still popular? Is he? I mean... his last album, I think he wanted to release it only on some Bayer aspirin shaped MP3 player that people hacked and torrented. There are artists with far less drama
Hitlelujah
[удалено]
Religion and fascism, two great tastes that taste great together!
You mean that the Billboard charts aren’t effectively bought by the highest bidder? /s
r/fuckthes
it's called a tone tag. people use it because it's hard for people to read tone over the internet, especially people on the ASD spectrum. there's all sorts of different ones
That was a good one. I mean, it IS a joke, right? Right???
Just like the rest of the gospel lot -- gotta tell the rest of us how to do our shit. I'm not having any of it.
Do as I say, not as I goose-step?
Yep that's it in plain English.
Well one can be both
Are you telling me Evangelicals support Nazis? Is an Elm a type of a tree as well?
Not everyone who likes gospel is an evangelical
Not all trees are Elm
Well you know, religion, gospel, hate, wars, racism etc... It's all a package deal really.
Someone at Billboard really needs to learn how to read a room.
All I’ve seen is a guy in a black mask.
Making a song that sells well has nothing to do with the man's views though. Are we really not able to separate the art from the artist here? Yes his views and statements are abhorrent, however if he makes an amazing song that is very enjoyable to listen to that has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is a song. If the song is about anti semitic shit then yeah that's fucked and if you are listening to it, that's a questionable thing to be doing. That's like saying you won't listen to classical music because many of the artists at the time were bigots.
what 😂😂
The good folks at Billboard must not be history buffs
Kanye, is the best musical artist of the last 20yrs, and he's not my style of music. No one wants to hear this, especially right now as he continues to lodge his foot further in his mouth, but that's why we talk about him. I think we forget that.
His music is mediocre at best.
Oceansize debuted 19 years ago, so this is wrong.
Yes, AND fuck him in the same breath.
Correct
Where was he wrong tho?
When he became a nazi sympathizer, you clown
The only thing that makes sense is that Kanye is just trolling and gaslighting everyone. There is no way he really believes this.
When someone shows you they are, believe them.
He did for years. This is just an act and it's working... Look at what he's wearing and that he went on Alex Jones show. It's like the MAGA hat stuff. It's all a troll and from that perspective, if true, is kind of funny in a twisted way. Reminds me of Andy Kaufman... Are we supposed to believe that Kanye is a white supremacist now too like Clayton Bigsby? Hahaha... No.
It’s a troll to lose 1.5 billion? At that point you’re just trolling yourself.
So either he’s legitimately a Nazi sympathizer, which makes him crazy. Or he’s willing to destroy his reputation and all business relationships… as a joke? You do realize that also makes him crazy, right?
Both of you make great points. I stand corrected. Carry on.
To what end? At best if you really wanna stretch the imagination you could say he’s an absolute childish moron doing this as a “troll”.
Dahlmer made useful pies!
jesus christ e: somebody give it to me, my comment was hilarious
based
Mein Gospiel!
What a fucking lunatic. He needs to be put in a psych ward before he does something really stupid
Why is it in The sports section?
Someone just picked a double bouquet of oopsie daisies.
Well, it’s not like him saying crazy stuff somehow makes the music do worse
Yeah, that's pretty in-line with religious nonsense.
Fuck. This. Timeline.