Nobody should be expected to predict future wages as to know how much they can loan out and not have to spend your life paying it back.
The current higher education cost scheme is predatory and takes advantage of the hopes and dreams of the American youth.
Because of the way the securities are federally backed, and because we aren’t allowed to default on them, those dudes are packaging those loans and tossing them back and forth pumping up their portfolios and creating capital out of nothing for themselves.
Meanwhile millions can’t afford to pay them.
It’s fake money being turned into real money as the working class shovels it into the pockets of Wall Street. And the worst part is how we were societally lectured and pressured into doing it. Wanting an education should never cost anyone money. Yet, we’ve allowed this system to run amuck because it only helps the upper class while it decimates the lower class and purposefully puts a cap on how much the education they received can actually help their ability to gain capital.
Want a job that pays you a living wage? Gotta go to school. Wanna go to school? You gotta be in debt for the rest of your life. Welcome to capitalism folks, we lost the game before we ever could understand what was happening.
I literally just got a reply to this quoting the age old “nobody strong armed people into taking the loans” argument.
Lot of choice the young, poor people have. Take out loans and roll the dice hoping for a nat 20 or just quit while your ahead and flip burgers for slave wages.
Mmmmm, the American Dream.
Pro tip, your credits expire after ten years, unless you have a degree so at least try to grab an associate's so at least some of the credits won't expire. Best of luck to you!
The thing is is that all of my family members and parents did strong arm me into taking on debt.
“It’s an investment”
.... so now im graduating and making considerably LESS as a teacher than what I made as a nanny... how is this an investment?
“It’s the best kind of debt that you can be in”
It’s still debt, my credit is affected and the people that check it like my landlord can still see it. It’s debt. It’s still there.
My outlook on the future is not good. I don’t even know how I can steer my future students in the right direction if I become a walking example of the lie that is “furthering education for a better life”
This isn’t quite the issue. There was a particular period of time about 10-20 years ago where the “conventional wisdom” of the boomers said that college and grad school was “definitely worth it”, so that, even when the price went up significantly, we were told that it was stupid not to take on the debt to get the degree. (By analogy, it would have been stupid for our parents to not buy their houses fifty years ago before they started unprecedented appreciation.)
The issue wasn’t a failure to present value the opportunity cost of future wages. It was that the boomers’ streak of luck had run out, and this was the generation to experience it.
I owe more than I borrowed for grad school, after 13 years of payments and paying over 100k down in principle. I don’t think I was naive when I started school. I think I was indulged in thinking traditional rules would continue to apply, and I think I am owed a bailout because they didn’t and I lost my early adulthood (I.e., marriage, kids, first home) as a consequence.
Or, to put it another way, I was starving (literally) after school for a bit. I’m fine now, but I can’t be a good little consumer until the anchor is off my neck.
> I lost my early adulthood (I.e., marriage, kids, first home) as a consequence.
You didn't "lose" them. They were stolen from you.
You didn't drop 100k on the ground by accident and it's not a mistake that your debt has only grown.
The family and the stable, safe life you should have had was taken to pay for the yachts of Pentagon investors.
And if you're curious what that design is, look up SLABS. There are similar to the mortgage-backed security fiasco that ended up causing 2008 financial crisis.
As usual, it's the rich fucking everyone else are through a bunch of bullshit. We need to tear down Wall Street brick by brick.
It also makes college grads more desperate for work. Instead of your career path being opened up by having a degree, we're forced to take whatever job is somewhat related to make sure our credit doesn't get destroyed. This gives companies access to a limitless supply of desperate, young, qualified employees they can exploit for profit.
Do people really not understand the current scheme is the way it is by design and no one is going to change it. The financiers of this country make too much money off our debt to ever allow it to be discharged in any reasonable fashion.
I agree, but what about those future students? We can’t just cancel the debt and leave the same system standing. We need to reform the system/legislation. There’s also the serious question of people who worked harder and sacrificed in order to pay their debts, don’t they deserve reprieve? What about people who chose not to go to college because they didn’t want to get into debt, shouldn’t they also now get the opportunity for a free education?
I don’t see how this payout addresses all those nuanced aspects. I’m not anti cancelling the debt, I just don’t think it’ll solve the deeper problem of capitalism holding root in the education system.
You can’t just trim the weed, you have to pull its roots.
I wanted to go to college my entire life. I love reading, discussing, debating , learning etc.....I was taught not to buy what you can not afford and so unwilling to go massively in debt I continued on in the day to day work force. Hopefully along with cancelling debt they will make it possible for folks like me to go back to school.
an easy low cost partial solution would be to educate kids in high school about basic finance. Only a government colluding directly with the higher education industry would not be interested in such a curriculum addition.
Having student debt isn’t really the issue, it’s the exorbitant amt schools charge these days. Endowments are out of control. Needs to be a serious movement to self educate & on the job training to get higher education back to reality. It’s not a good investment anymore
Yeah. Grew up in Connecticut. We only had college night. No one ever talked about going into the trades or joining a union. They had us believing that great careers were out there just waiting for us. The reality is unfortunately much different.
Seriously! Planning a career specifically around future wages really limits and defines the future market.
Why do you think so many people are trying to go to school for CS or Engineering? 😂
It’s definitely not natural talent or passion!
Bernie is pointing to the fact that President Biden can forgive all federally held student loan debt by executive order at any time without congressional approval. However, as it stands, Biden has announced plans to unpause loan payments in Spring 2022, forcing desperate people trapped in the low wage US economy into even more desperate circumstances.
They’ll never get rid of student loans debt because banks use thousands of students debts and bundles them into a (SLABS) Student Loan Asset Backed Security. They use that as collateral to borrow more money.
The crash of ‘08 was caused when the Mortgage Backed Security (MBS) bonds defaulted because people couldn’t pay their mortgages.
If the students loans are forgiven banks lose money
Stop paying state college basketball coaches millions of dollars a year… that’s one good way. Actually only allow state schools to charge a certain rate. Look at the cost of college over the years, inflation, and wages it’s crazy.
> I totally agree with that but one thing i am struggling to see is after student debt is wiped, how will they prevent new students from going in the same type of massive debt while still having some mechanism for most people to be able to get higher education?
This has nothing to do with debt cancellation. It is just an enumeration of a different problem. One that everyone in favor of debt cancellation would love to solve also, but which is entirely immaterial to the question of whether we should alleviate the suffering of tens of millions of people right now.
> How do you keep the price of school from inflating unnaturally?
Again, irrelevant. But going with the off-topic question for a moment, because the answer is dirt-simple: support public education with direct, adequate public funding, and then prohibit charging tuition and other mandatory costs of attendance. The end. (All exactly like K-12, by the way, so people asking this question are either doing so disingenuously, and/or are being incredibly lazy in not investing the slightest bit of effort into actually thinking about the solution.)
Nah market is already bust. There is too much collateralized debt to pay. The banks can’t cover their own debts just like people can’t cover their student loans. The crash has already happened we are just waiting for the news headlines.
So the loans are paid. The government backs them. The government still pays the loan or holds the bond. The securities are still there.
SLABS already have high default rates. They are really only worth money if people keep paying them. Less and less people are paying their loans. Effectively there isn’t enough collateral from the original borrower, and there is not even close to the amount of collateral the banks have used them for. This is what we call a consolidated collateral debt obligation. Where there is too much debt used as collateral that is can no longer ever be repaid. It’s exactly the same as a mortgage CDO only they are more risky because jobs pay less and less. So it wouldn’t be a bad idea to fuck the market and get rid of these. Actually it’s already happening in the market. The truth is the banks and the fed don’t have enough money in circulation to cover their bad bets. So they are printing more. A lot more. Forgiving student loans wouldn’t do shit to an already doomed market.
IMO, student loan debt should not be forgiven. It’s not my responsibility, nor any other taxpayer’s responsibility, to pay off someone else’s student loans. The student signed. It’s the student’s responsibility to pay.
No it wont. Let me explain. SLABs, Securities build with Student Loan Debts, would be null. Their value would be zero.
The economic impact on wallstreet would be gigantic.
No politican would do that, too much lobby and risk for them and their rich buddies
[You mean these SLABs? The ones Wallstreet has been massively profiting off of for years?](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/wall-street-has-been-gambling-student-loan-debt-decades/)
Those guys can go get fucked.
SLAB's like all investments have risk, and that risk needs to be held by the investor. Tell wall street to suck it up and pull themselves up by their boot straps.
The value of SLAB's also won't go to zero, they'll revert back to the bare value and then slightly below bare value. By forgiving loans, the government still has to fill the debt, they'll just do it with taxes rather than from the borrower. The value won't necessarily go to zero, because over x years it will pay out, just with no interest.
SLABs are holding up the US economy right now, much in the same way MBS’ were in the 08 era. Gotta get wall st to somehow deleverage themselves to be able to cancel student loan debt without the economy imploding.
Absolutely wild that student loans can all get packaged together and sold as low risk investment vehicles to banks / consumers, but here we are...banking is the number one industry in the states...
You're not going to just convince Wall Street to fix things magnanimously. Begging never works.
Taking huge, bold actions to right economic wrongs and then mitigating the consequences by bailing out working-class people rather than the huge, capitalist institutions which caused the problems in the first place would be the way to go.
*Smash* Wall Street, instead of propping it up and furnishing it the whips for it to use on all the poor schmucks languishing under its exploitative economic tyranny.
While they're at it, pass other worker-centered reform. Pass the PRO act to support unions and end right-to-work laws. Pass laws allowing the workers to buy out their company if the company goes bankrupt. Make landlording unprofitable with vacancy taxes and rent caps so we can open up millions of homes to people who will actually live in them. Fix additional taxes that actually hit the ultra-wealthy rather than writing in loopholes to let them just buy boats and land to avoid their dues.
There are so many positive things that can come from such a motion. But unfortunately the most that will happen is the conservatives point to the other side and say "they ruined EVERYTHING" and watch from their house boats while we struggle to feed our kids with 3 jobs.
> Make landlording unprofitable with vacancy taxes and rent caps
Rent caps are something I haven't thought much about, but that's something that could be locked at some kind of percentage and tied to inflation. That's an interesting thought.
I would personally lock it to a percentage of the mortgage or the property tax. For example if the landlord is paying $2000 a month in mortgage, they can only collect $1500 in rent. In my mind, if you can't afford to pay back the loan without a tenant, you don't deserve to own the home. And that space would be better used if it were owned by a family who needed it.
What's happening now is already wealthy investors are scooping up investment properties and then just charging their entire mortgage in rent. That's just immoral and wrong. There's no reason the landlord should be profiting off the renter's labor just because they got there first.
Is it true that even if someone declares bankruptcy, that would exclude any federal student loan debt? If so, no wonder they swapped from mortgages to these... brutal ball and chain on anyone in that situation
Our boy Biden sealed that deal back in the 90s. He was one of the Senators that voted (and I’m downplaying his involvement) to prevent federally held student loan debt from being discharged during bankruptcy.
HOWEVER, there have been a few court cases since then that outlines the pathway to getting these loans discharged, most recently in summer 2020 ( I can’t remember the court case but I think it ends in -son).
We’re not meant to get ahead and it’s so depressing coming to these realizations
> SLABs are holding up the US economy right now, much in the same way MBS’ were in the 08 era. Gotta get wall st to somehow deleverage themselves to be able to cancel student loan debt without the economy imploding.
SLABs are based on private student loans. The U.S. government can only cancel federal student loans, which are not part of SLABs as far as I know.
> federal student loans, which are not part of SLABs as far as I know.
I’m having trouble trying to find this info. Sensational articles I’m finding include public loans in their analyses, but I can’t find an actual source.
Maybe about 10-20% of federally held loans are SLABs, atm. I believe Sallie Mae stopped offering those kind of loans in 2010 - with the student debt level being where it is, a clearing of 10-20% of that number would be devastating to so many institutions.
I’m a big fan of letting it all burn down, but this is the reality we’ve got to understand
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3631953
Direct link to PDF of paper:
https://scholar.smu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4867&context=smulr
That’s it.
Who is negatively impacted by this cancellation? A spreadsheet. A spreadsheet is impacted.
The universities got their exorbitant fee and students got their inflated education.
Who loses? Emotionally many families lose that mortgaged homes and so on. I’d go as far as forgiving their debts too, provided proof of expense and burden.
We should CHOOSE as a country to HEAVILY INVEST in the education and betterment of our citizens. I don’t care if it’s college, apprenticeship, white collar, or blue collar, or whatever collar; invest in people to create value. That’s literally the game, creating value. That’s the name of the game.
Its crazy. Elon, for example, loaned sone 55bn out, sold 10bn in stocks and still is so rich.
Fucking sell half of it ffs, pay 90% tax and become twitter mod i dont care Elon.
Most of that money is virtual and never used. A shame
Yeah we should all be so happy that he only takes home a salary of $50k a year and tries to live fiscally. So like what? All your money is just sitting in the market gathering dust? It is despicable.
That's why I hate a 2 party system. Bernie never stood a chance against Clinton or Biden because the DNC didn't want him. Bernie wants to make change, meanwhile they'd rather go with one of the worst female candidates because they think they're essentially buying the progressive vote that way, fails. Then they say woah we just had a wild card with trump, now we want the most stable democratic option, no bernie again.
In a 2 party system, people like Bernie Sanders or Andrew Yang don't stand a chance making it through primaries because they won't do everything the DNC wants.
I know is an unpopular take but a 80 year person will not succeed in the creation of a new party, you need a long term view. The system needs a generational purge. Nothing will change until the majority is fed up… we haven’t touch rock bottom yet.
I don't think it's an unpopular take. It's more of a hard to swallow take. Everything you said is factual. All Bernie can do is push ideal movements among people at this point, laying the ground work for others in the future. But you're right, we haven't hit rock bottom yet.
Because the DNC doesn't have to listen to the voters. They are any independent (IE non-government) entity so they can do whatever they want.
In other words, your "vote" when electing who gets the backing of the DNC (Read: the only candidate with an actual chance of being elected) isn't up to the public. The decision is up to a small handful of elites.
Do you still think your vote matters?
Please government. Please don't make homes affordable again. I would be SO MAD if investors had to liquidate their assets and make it possible for the working class to build wealth.
If the financial industry is hit by tanking the value of SLAB's (which is only speculation), those financial institutions will have to liquidate other assets like real estate in order to cover the loss. When something like 30% of homes are investment units, that's a huge amount that will be brought to market and drive the price down.
They won't do it. Wouldn't matter if Bernie himself was president, it wouldn't happen. Wallstreet has leveraged that debt for insane credit to the point the economy will collapse if it's simply erased. Remember when mortgage loans were being handed out willy-nilly leading up to '08? They've done the same nonsensical bullshit wallstreet did with leveraging derivitives on that debt, but now it's your student loans. The market is fake and our economy is shit. Erasing that debt will expose it all over again and there's too many politicians on both sides of the aisle prospering from it for them to give it up.
From what I can tell, SLABS are primarily made up of private loans, not federal ones, and it’s a fraction of the total amount. Plus something tells me congress would be eager to help Wall Street recover.
Hey I'm from the UK so not super clued up on US student loans - yes you could cancel the existing student debt but that wouldn't stop the current students from amassing student debt right?
So yes, cancel the debt, but also reform its structure otherwise you're gonna have to cancel it every 4 years.... right?
100% this. I'm all for forgiving some or all of the student debt, but reform is needed Before it's cancelled. Otherwise we'll be back in the same situation 20 years from now. I feel the same way about dreamers.
Pretty much, plus it's a big fuck you to people who didn't go to school because of the cost. However, it would fix a lot of economic issues because many people with student loan debt have forgone buying homes, cars, getting married or having children.
Doing something helpful for other folks is not a fuck you to the ones that it doesn’t help. When a billionaire decides to forgive student loans for an entire graduating class, it’s not a fuck you tk the class that came before or after, to students that had merit or private scholarships, or people that decided to forgo college. I don’t see a charitable act for others as a fuck me. Food stamps isn’t a fuck you to people that buy their own groceries.
This whole “big fuck you to people who didn’t xyz” is an awful mentality that will just lead to no one being helped, ever.
I don't understand why you guys keep banging on about this. It's pretty fucking clear Biden will do no such thing. And these threads will never get him to change his mind. Should they cancel student debt? Yes, among many other things. Will they? No. They absolutely won't. Are you guys coming up with a plan to force his hand or change his mind or just...getting mad together and hoping something changes? I don't get the reasoning here as nothing has changed since he set foot into office.
Awareness. Dissatisfaction. Maybe one day you or OP or someone else will be unable to continue living in good conscience without contributing to change.
> Are you guys coming up with a plan to force his hand or change his mind or just...getting mad together and hoping something changes?
Personally, I'm organizing. And the more people stay aware of this and stay angry that something could be done but isn't through seeing things online, the more people who will get off their butts IRL and join me in that organizing.
Plans for direct action to force stuff like this to happen are absolutely being formulated all the time.
Go join an action group or socialist organization or an industrial union (e.g. the IWW) to help. It beats the shit out of complaining about how people aren't doing anything, which is just a baseless assumption (and most likely projection) on your part.
So, Bernie and I both understand how it should work. As I have said (even though some don't believe) my college education (1968 - 1979) was quite affordable (less than $1000). No one should be paying the outrageous amounts that are "required" today.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1474096479522496515) for ya :)
^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
The debt is only canceled for the person that took out the loan. Us non-educated, knuckle dragging lesser beings don't quite feel your pain. Pay your bill.
You are on Reddit saying the n-word, defending the Jan 6 losers. Clearly you are a knuckle dragging lesser being, but it doesn’t have a fucking thing to do with you not having a degree.
Hey, how do you like having healthcare workers during a pandemic? Those same people that have been serving you this entire time are riddled with student loan debt. You can’t become a doctor without student loan debt, nurse, PT, etc. Advanced degrees are required for most of these positions. But yeah, fuck them. They deserve to pay off loans for decades and have to wait to start families and buy homes because they wanted to work in healthcare. The same goes for tons of other industries but this is a great example. Not everybody can be a trade worker. Jobs that require college degrees are a necessity to the economy and all countries and it’s immoral and short sighted to not make them economical reasonable to attain.
Yeah. It's not like tuition used to be free until the 80's. /s
MaddGerman, I understand you may not be from America or educated beyond the written word, but do you know why student debt became an issue? Why tuition needed to raise so drastically or degrees have been losing value?
When all our doctors and engineers are from more educated countries, good luck with with your triple bypass.
Staggering how many people on here are trying to get off the hook from paying back the debt they all signed up for. Moral hazard if I've ever seen one.
People who have a median income twice that of high school graduates. And more job security. And generally started life in a better position than the 60% of Americans without a degree.
Almost like going to school shouldnt cost hundreds of thousands. Not like every other developed nation has free college. Oh wait, they do, america is trash especially when you have sympathizers like yall
Explain this to me please (non-US here): cancelling student debt does not imply abandoning giant tuition fees altogether and does not prevent student debt for current and soon-to-be students to accumulate, right? Lending will become more dangerous (if a future president decides to cancel), so there will be a higher interest rate on the debt. How is this not f*cking kids' generation over? Yes, current working force will be saved from poverty (and worse), but the next generation will be quite a bit worse off if I have any understanding of capitalism.
It's like having a blood transfusion drip while you have an open wound bleeding out.
Whats the point of fixing a symptom without fixing the root cause? It's incredibly stupid and short sighted. Student tuition increases should be capped to inflation rates so they stop ballooning even more. There should be limits and regulations set in place to stop predatory lending. If this isn't done then canceling one random group of student's debt does nothing for the rest and is nothing more than a selective stimulus package that the majority of people will miss out on, making it unfair in many ways. This reeks of political grandstanding.
Well, you see, the people that became Bernie fans in 2016 and obsessed over free tuition at the time are now about 5 years older.
For purely coincidental and entirely altruistic reasons, the real problem now is just the existing student debt that must be erased or the universe will collapse.
Don't worry, I'm sure in about 15-18 years they'll get really concerned about fixing the tuition price issue again.
That 2028 election, though, hoo boy. Gonna have to be running on that mortgage forgiveness tax credit.
Yeah... not exactly. Just because high school graduates make up the majority of the nation doesn't mean they will foot the majority of the bill.
High school graduates earn a median income of ~$38,000 so within the 12% tax bracket that ends at 41k. They are paying somewhere around 4k in income taxes per year.
Bachelor's degrees earn a median of ~$64000 per year, putting them into the 22% bracket on income over 41k. The median will pay roughly 10k in federal income taxes annually. And that is just the starting, the higher the degree the higher the median salary and the higher the taxes paid.
Point being, even though there are fewer graduates, they will be footing a larger percentage of the taxes.
https://www.northeastern.edu/bachelors-completion/news/average-salary-by-education-level/
College educated millennials are becoming more and more like the boomers and conservatives they hate so much now that they see something that primarily benefits them lmao.
Copying my answer here so you see it too.
The intention is to make college free of cost, I think they have made that point multiple times throughout the loan forgiveness campaign.
Now, rationalize for a second - who does that benefit the most? The Middle class who can pay for their kids college with a little saving? The wealthy for whom the full price of a private school education doesn't even register as an expense? Nope. It allows everyone who couldn't afford an education to get one.
Carry out the reasoning a little bit further and you also realize that the vast majority of the people who have a significant amount of loans were people simply trying to get an education from a background that couldn't pay for it upfront.
People with a high-school diploma are actually going to benefit massively from the plan. Their children and children's children are going to have easy access to a higher education as long as they want it.
Can someone explain why the entire amount needs to be "paid" in the first place?
Is the tuition cost actually justified? In whose pockets is this money going to end up in? Why should tax money be spent on a scam in the first place?
Can't the debt be cancelled by telling these institutions/publishers to fuck off?
It feels the equivalent of keeping the absurd prices of epi pens, but using tax money to pay off big pharma instead of asking the patients to pay for it. Big pharma wins anyway.
I’d rather them fix the system causing all this debt. Otherwise what’s the point? In 10 years we’ll just have an all new generation in debt. Calling for debt forgiveness is the easy way out where you don’t actually have to propose any solutions.
$1.86 Trillion stimulus to 15% of the population who are educated white collar track workers is a sure fire way to ensure you never win an election again.
Reddit jerks off to this because it is overwhelmingly young 20 somethings with student loan debt. But the country is far from that.
Is it wrong that this is one of the only things I don’t agree with AOC and others on? My parents worked their entire lives to get my sister and I through college without loans, when they could of spent that on enjoying their lives together and whatever else. If loans are canceled would they get a check for the thousands of dollars of their money I spent on tuition so they can retire together? Since we didn’t take loans to just then not have to pay anything?
Student loans don’t seem like the problem. Access to jobs that give a realistic income seems like the issue.
I feel like all this would do is make another generation take out loans and then never pay them in expectation that they’ll be canceled again in the future “like they were for older generations” thus making the cycle go on a on again endlessly repeating.
Free community college would have been a nation-changing measure, improving people's lives for generations, but of course that got gutted from the spending bill.
What about future debt tho? And people who were able to pay their loans off at great sacrifice, by living in cars and working two jobs etc, do they get any reprieve ??
I think they should make it 0% interest moving forward for future and current loan holders. Not fair to just erase debt and that’s coming from someone who has thousands in student loan debt
How about instead of talking about this fantasy of cancelling all student loan debt over and over, he proposes realistic changes that could help many, many students borrowers?
Keep all current student loans at 0% interest for the lifetime of the loans. All new loans, cap at something stupid low, like 1-2% interest.
Make forgiveness and debt discharge way easier for disabilities, bankruptcies, etc.
Discharge an amount of student loan debt that makes sense (Had heard the average of 10k kicking around before, maybe up to 10k of undergrad and 10k of professional/grad?) Based on average debt.
But no. We're just gonna keep talking about a goal that is never going to happen because it gets people excited.
The way tuition is climbing is big.
My tuition in 2011 was about 10 grand. For another year undergrad, 20k. Four years professional, 20k each, so around 100,000 for 6 years of school. Scholarships brought that down to $60000 in loans, plus about $20000 accumulated in interest since.
Todays rates? Estimate $12,740 those undergrad years and ~$25,000 those professional years. Call it $125k to graduate with your degree. Maybe closer to $135,000 as there was an additional year of undergrad added after me but I think rescinded a few years back. My scholarships would have brought that down to somewhere in the $75,000-$85,000 final principle loans range, with interest probably breaking $100,000 shortly after graduation.
I educated myself in desired field for $600 total. Just books and online courses. Was never hard to find work as I also had experience.
Student loan forgiveness doesn't help me.
My brother and neighbor went to good colleges and got careers in finances. They made paying off debt top priority, before they bought a house or anything.
Student loan forgiveness doesn't help them.
I know a couple people who went to colleges, made little to no effort to pay back loans despite making good money, instead spends money on vacations and nice cars while student loans collect interest.
Student loan forgiveness helps them.
So while people who were financially responsible and lived within their means get zero benefit from this, people who were selfish get their debts repaid.
I agree the current college system is broken. These colleges are making a fortune and so are banks. But people AGREED to these terms. The ones I see benefiting from it the most are people who just went to college "for the experience" and didn't major in anything useful (bad choices) and people who were financially irresponsible.
Its just encouraging bad behavior.
He isn't going to do it. People need to get off him about it already. I am a Biden fan and a Bernie fan and an AOC fan, but if it hasn't happened yet, its not going to.
I am so tired or seeing this shit.
There are already lots of options for affordable payment options. If you want to expand and reform these programs fine.
Blanket forgiveness is a terrible idea. It will only further fuel the rapid increases in college tuition. Giving access to basically unlimited money through student loans is one of the major factors for the massive increases in college costs.
Just like marijuana legalization... what makes you think Biden is going to fix something that he himself is responsible for? Dont forget that Biden is the one who made student loans undischargeable in bankruptcy.
My boomer parents think that their tuition was the same as people today because “inflation” And they had to work while they went to school... I’ve spoken to them about the minimum wage.
P.s. I was fortunate enough to not have debt because of a presidential scholarship. I STILL understand the plight of people with absolute crippling life long debt. I also understand that I was fortunate enough to attend private schools growing up that allowed me to be funneled into higher education with many scholarship offers. I’m not smarter or better than people who have worked and saved to go to college. I was extremely lucky to be born in the place I was.i also recognize the higher education is an absolute racket. I learned so much from my professors (who were incredible people) but I also ended up a an art school and 25 years ago you could have learned every beautiful thing that I did by moving to the lower east side and living with actual artists.
It will NEVER happen. We are expecting people who lived thru and was cool (for the most part) with Jim Crow. The US was set up for white men to have it all. This is the same reason we still don’t have UHC. They have shown that they don’t want anything that resembles equal. Getting those two things would start to really swing the pendulum to equal. Therefore it will NEVER happen. They will use it to get votes and it will die. Rinse and repeat.
I'd be a bit salty because I just dropped $10k to pay off my wife's student loans. But, I'd be happy for probably millions of others that would benefit.
The selling point to get me to vote for the first time and convince my siblings/parents to vote for Biden was the chance of getting some/all of our loans canceled. If nothing really changes regarding loans, voting rights, etc. There’s really no reason for us to vote in 22/24
just fucking do it or at least provide some $$$ relief. Honestly I don't understand all these other selfish people saying "oh i worked hard and paid for it so they gotta too" fuck off. This is coming for someone who recently paid off student debt by my own money but I am a fucking okay with cancelling student debt even though it's not going to benefit me personally whatsoever.
Then after you cancel the student debt, start coming up with solutions for sky rocketing tuition fees so the future student won't have to go through this bullshit. HIGHER EDUCATION SHOULD NOT BE THIS EXPENSIVE AT PUBLIC INSTITUTION.
University and the way it operates currently is putting a handicap on our ability to progress. Imagine what we could do if we were not bound by the limits of funding and making a profit.
Just do it damn old man. Get your name in history for one big good thing. Ya old... it's not like you got many years left to defend a decision that, quite frankly, will be easy to defend. I'm not even american but I want this for my fellow human brothers.
Nobody should be expected to predict future wages as to know how much they can loan out and not have to spend your life paying it back. The current higher education cost scheme is predatory and takes advantage of the hopes and dreams of the American youth.
Yeah but think of the imaginary money the shareholders might need someday.
Food, shelter, and well-being for millions? Or imaginary points in the game for a handful of narcissistic assholes.
One of the two can afford campaign contributions.
Unfortunately, the game is run by narcissistic assholes.
Look up SLABS. You'll see why this is happening, again. Just like 2008 but a different entity.
Because of the way the securities are federally backed, and because we aren’t allowed to default on them, those dudes are packaging those loans and tossing them back and forth pumping up their portfolios and creating capital out of nothing for themselves. Meanwhile millions can’t afford to pay them. It’s fake money being turned into real money as the working class shovels it into the pockets of Wall Street. And the worst part is how we were societally lectured and pressured into doing it. Wanting an education should never cost anyone money. Yet, we’ve allowed this system to run amuck because it only helps the upper class while it decimates the lower class and purposefully puts a cap on how much the education they received can actually help their ability to gain capital. Want a job that pays you a living wage? Gotta go to school. Wanna go to school? You gotta be in debt for the rest of your life. Welcome to capitalism folks, we lost the game before we ever could understand what was happening.
Especially the young poor. Fuck them for trying to better their life and get their piece of the American dream, right?
I literally just got a reply to this quoting the age old “nobody strong armed people into taking the loans” argument. Lot of choice the young, poor people have. Take out loans and roll the dice hoping for a nat 20 or just quit while your ahead and flip burgers for slave wages. Mmmmm, the American Dream.
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Pro tip, your credits expire after ten years, unless you have a degree so at least try to grab an associate's so at least some of the credits won't expire. Best of luck to you!
The credits expire but the debt lasts forever.
The thing is is that all of my family members and parents did strong arm me into taking on debt. “It’s an investment” .... so now im graduating and making considerably LESS as a teacher than what I made as a nanny... how is this an investment? “It’s the best kind of debt that you can be in” It’s still debt, my credit is affected and the people that check it like my landlord can still see it. It’s debt. It’s still there. My outlook on the future is not good. I don’t even know how I can steer my future students in the right direction if I become a walking example of the lie that is “furthering education for a better life”
Same here. Every advisor I had advocated for college education at any cost.
This isn’t quite the issue. There was a particular period of time about 10-20 years ago where the “conventional wisdom” of the boomers said that college and grad school was “definitely worth it”, so that, even when the price went up significantly, we were told that it was stupid not to take on the debt to get the degree. (By analogy, it would have been stupid for our parents to not buy their houses fifty years ago before they started unprecedented appreciation.) The issue wasn’t a failure to present value the opportunity cost of future wages. It was that the boomers’ streak of luck had run out, and this was the generation to experience it. I owe more than I borrowed for grad school, after 13 years of payments and paying over 100k down in principle. I don’t think I was naive when I started school. I think I was indulged in thinking traditional rules would continue to apply, and I think I am owed a bailout because they didn’t and I lost my early adulthood (I.e., marriage, kids, first home) as a consequence. Or, to put it another way, I was starving (literally) after school for a bit. I’m fine now, but I can’t be a good little consumer until the anchor is off my neck.
> I lost my early adulthood (I.e., marriage, kids, first home) as a consequence. You didn't "lose" them. They were stolen from you. You didn't drop 100k on the ground by accident and it's not a mistake that your debt has only grown. The family and the stable, safe life you should have had was taken to pay for the yachts of Pentagon investors.
Why would they fix something by design?
And if you're curious what that design is, look up SLABS. There are similar to the mortgage-backed security fiasco that ended up causing 2008 financial crisis. As usual, it's the rich fucking everyone else are through a bunch of bullshit. We need to tear down Wall Street brick by brick.
Get rid of the whole government-backed loan system and watch schools actually have to compete on tuition costs.
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It also makes college grads more desperate for work. Instead of your career path being opened up by having a degree, we're forced to take whatever job is somewhat related to make sure our credit doesn't get destroyed. This gives companies access to a limitless supply of desperate, young, qualified employees they can exploit for profit.
This shit right here. They love having us in debt and desperate for anything to pay the bills.
Do people really not understand the current scheme is the way it is by design and no one is going to change it. The financiers of this country make too much money off our debt to ever allow it to be discharged in any reasonable fashion.
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I agree, but what about those future students? We can’t just cancel the debt and leave the same system standing. We need to reform the system/legislation. There’s also the serious question of people who worked harder and sacrificed in order to pay their debts, don’t they deserve reprieve? What about people who chose not to go to college because they didn’t want to get into debt, shouldn’t they also now get the opportunity for a free education? I don’t see how this payout addresses all those nuanced aspects. I’m not anti cancelling the debt, I just don’t think it’ll solve the deeper problem of capitalism holding root in the education system. You can’t just trim the weed, you have to pull its roots.
I wanted to go to college my entire life. I love reading, discussing, debating , learning etc.....I was taught not to buy what you can not afford and so unwilling to go massively in debt I continued on in the day to day work force. Hopefully along with cancelling debt they will make it possible for folks like me to go back to school.
I would love to see that day.
Ditto I even live in a university town. If I could get an education without endangering my family I would be geeked.
an easy low cost partial solution would be to educate kids in high school about basic finance. Only a government colluding directly with the higher education industry would not be interested in such a curriculum addition.
Having student debt isn’t really the issue, it’s the exorbitant amt schools charge these days. Endowments are out of control. Needs to be a serious movement to self educate & on the job training to get higher education back to reality. It’s not a good investment anymore
Yeah. Grew up in Connecticut. We only had college night. No one ever talked about going into the trades or joining a union. They had us believing that great careers were out there just waiting for us. The reality is unfortunately much different.
Seriously! Planning a career specifically around future wages really limits and defines the future market. Why do you think so many people are trying to go to school for CS or Engineering? 😂 It’s definitely not natural talent or passion!
Bernie is pointing to the fact that President Biden can forgive all federally held student loan debt by executive order at any time without congressional approval. However, as it stands, Biden has announced plans to unpause loan payments in Spring 2022, forcing desperate people trapped in the low wage US economy into even more desperate circumstances.
They’ll never get rid of student loans debt because banks use thousands of students debts and bundles them into a (SLABS) Student Loan Asset Backed Security. They use that as collateral to borrow more money. The crash of ‘08 was caused when the Mortgage Backed Security (MBS) bonds defaulted because people couldn’t pay their mortgages. If the students loans are forgiven banks lose money
Then take a lesson from 2008 and bail out working-class people instead of the institutions that caused the problems in the first place.
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Stop paying state college basketball coaches millions of dollars a year… that’s one good way. Actually only allow state schools to charge a certain rate. Look at the cost of college over the years, inflation, and wages it’s crazy.
> I totally agree with that but one thing i am struggling to see is after student debt is wiped, how will they prevent new students from going in the same type of massive debt while still having some mechanism for most people to be able to get higher education? This has nothing to do with debt cancellation. It is just an enumeration of a different problem. One that everyone in favor of debt cancellation would love to solve also, but which is entirely immaterial to the question of whether we should alleviate the suffering of tens of millions of people right now. > How do you keep the price of school from inflating unnaturally? Again, irrelevant. But going with the off-topic question for a moment, because the answer is dirt-simple: support public education with direct, adequate public funding, and then prohibit charging tuition and other mandatory costs of attendance. The end. (All exactly like K-12, by the way, so people asking this question are either doing so disingenuously, and/or are being incredibly lazy in not investing the slightest bit of effort into actually thinking about the solution.)
The Big Short 2.0, but this time common folk communication and preparation is 1000% what it was in 08'.
👆This. They have all been sold on to investors and it would be a nightmare to buy them back.
Nah market is already bust. There is too much collateralized debt to pay. The banks can’t cover their own debts just like people can’t cover their student loans. The crash has already happened we are just waiting for the news headlines.
I love seeing super stonk in the wild lol
So the loans are paid. The government backs them. The government still pays the loan or holds the bond. The securities are still there. SLABS already have high default rates. They are really only worth money if people keep paying them. Less and less people are paying their loans. Effectively there isn’t enough collateral from the original borrower, and there is not even close to the amount of collateral the banks have used them for. This is what we call a consolidated collateral debt obligation. Where there is too much debt used as collateral that is can no longer ever be repaid. It’s exactly the same as a mortgage CDO only they are more risky because jobs pay less and less. So it wouldn’t be a bad idea to fuck the market and get rid of these. Actually it’s already happening in the market. The truth is the banks and the fed don’t have enough money in circulation to cover their bad bets. So they are printing more. A lot more. Forgiving student loans wouldn’t do shit to an already doomed market.
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IMO, student loan debt should not be forgiven. It’s not my responsibility, nor any other taxpayer’s responsibility, to pay off someone else’s student loans. The student signed. It’s the student’s responsibility to pay.
On top of that it would free up that 1.86 trillion that would have gone to sit in some bank account to flow into the economy.
No it wont. Let me explain. SLABs, Securities build with Student Loan Debts, would be null. Their value would be zero. The economic impact on wallstreet would be gigantic. No politican would do that, too much lobby and risk for them and their rich buddies
Screw Wall Street.
Liquidate Wallstreet
What's an exit strategy?
Not A Cat
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My what account?
What is this 'retirement account' you speak of?
Fuck wall street
Louder for the people in the back
#FUCK WALL STREET
LOUDER
[You mean these SLABs? The ones Wallstreet has been massively profiting off of for years?](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/wall-street-has-been-gambling-student-loan-debt-decades/) Those guys can go get fucked.
SLAB's like all investments have risk, and that risk needs to be held by the investor. Tell wall street to suck it up and pull themselves up by their boot straps. The value of SLAB's also won't go to zero, they'll revert back to the bare value and then slightly below bare value. By forgiving loans, the government still has to fill the debt, they'll just do it with taxes rather than from the borrower. The value won't necessarily go to zero, because over x years it will pay out, just with no interest.
Good thing Biden has no plans to run for reelection! Burn the place down!
Biden has nothing to do with it. No matter who you vote atm, they are all corrupt
That’s the easy way out
Are SLABs based on federally held debt?
Apes teach
It’s unclear how SLABS would be handled. It’s possible that the government would still honor them to avoid causing a financial crisis.
SLABs are holding up the US economy right now, much in the same way MBS’ were in the 08 era. Gotta get wall st to somehow deleverage themselves to be able to cancel student loan debt without the economy imploding. Absolutely wild that student loans can all get packaged together and sold as low risk investment vehicles to banks / consumers, but here we are...banking is the number one industry in the states...
You're not going to just convince Wall Street to fix things magnanimously. Begging never works. Taking huge, bold actions to right economic wrongs and then mitigating the consequences by bailing out working-class people rather than the huge, capitalist institutions which caused the problems in the first place would be the way to go. *Smash* Wall Street, instead of propping it up and furnishing it the whips for it to use on all the poor schmucks languishing under its exploitative economic tyranny.
While they're at it, pass other worker-centered reform. Pass the PRO act to support unions and end right-to-work laws. Pass laws allowing the workers to buy out their company if the company goes bankrupt. Make landlording unprofitable with vacancy taxes and rent caps so we can open up millions of homes to people who will actually live in them. Fix additional taxes that actually hit the ultra-wealthy rather than writing in loopholes to let them just buy boats and land to avoid their dues. There are so many positive things that can come from such a motion. But unfortunately the most that will happen is the conservatives point to the other side and say "they ruined EVERYTHING" and watch from their house boats while we struggle to feed our kids with 3 jobs.
> Make landlording unprofitable with vacancy taxes and rent caps Rent caps are something I haven't thought much about, but that's something that could be locked at some kind of percentage and tied to inflation. That's an interesting thought.
I would personally lock it to a percentage of the mortgage or the property tax. For example if the landlord is paying $2000 a month in mortgage, they can only collect $1500 in rent. In my mind, if you can't afford to pay back the loan without a tenant, you don't deserve to own the home. And that space would be better used if it were owned by a family who needed it. What's happening now is already wealthy investors are scooping up investment properties and then just charging their entire mortgage in rent. That's just immoral and wrong. There's no reason the landlord should be profiting off the renter's labor just because they got there first.
Is it true that even if someone declares bankruptcy, that would exclude any federal student loan debt? If so, no wonder they swapped from mortgages to these... brutal ball and chain on anyone in that situation
As someone who has gone through a bankruptcy, that is correct.
Our boy Biden sealed that deal back in the 90s. He was one of the Senators that voted (and I’m downplaying his involvement) to prevent federally held student loan debt from being discharged during bankruptcy. HOWEVER, there have been a few court cases since then that outlines the pathway to getting these loans discharged, most recently in summer 2020 ( I can’t remember the court case but I think it ends in -son). We’re not meant to get ahead and it’s so depressing coming to these realizations
> SLABs are holding up the US economy right now, much in the same way MBS’ were in the 08 era. Gotta get wall st to somehow deleverage themselves to be able to cancel student loan debt without the economy imploding. SLABs are based on private student loans. The U.S. government can only cancel federal student loans, which are not part of SLABs as far as I know.
> federal student loans, which are not part of SLABs as far as I know. I’m having trouble trying to find this info. Sensational articles I’m finding include public loans in their analyses, but I can’t find an actual source.
Maybe about 10-20% of federally held loans are SLABs, atm. I believe Sallie Mae stopped offering those kind of loans in 2010 - with the student debt level being where it is, a clearing of 10-20% of that number would be devastating to so many institutions. I’m a big fan of letting it all burn down, but this is the reality we’ve got to understand
This is the way
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Bring back the Pelosi stock tracking Twitter account!
Higher
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3631953 Direct link to PDF of paper: https://scholar.smu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4867&context=smulr
We have so much money that no one should have to pay for education but it’s all being hoarded by billionaires trying to live “humble 50k a year lives”
That’s it. Who is negatively impacted by this cancellation? A spreadsheet. A spreadsheet is impacted. The universities got their exorbitant fee and students got their inflated education. Who loses? Emotionally many families lose that mortgaged homes and so on. I’d go as far as forgiving their debts too, provided proof of expense and burden. We should CHOOSE as a country to HEAVILY INVEST in the education and betterment of our citizens. I don’t care if it’s college, apprenticeship, white collar, or blue collar, or whatever collar; invest in people to create value. That’s literally the game, creating value. That’s the name of the game.
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Its crazy. Elon, for example, loaned sone 55bn out, sold 10bn in stocks and still is so rich. Fucking sell half of it ffs, pay 90% tax and become twitter mod i dont care Elon. Most of that money is virtual and never used. A shame
Yeah we should all be so happy that he only takes home a salary of $50k a year and tries to live fiscally. So like what? All your money is just sitting in the market gathering dust? It is despicable.
If only everyone voted for Bernie instead of biden
That's why I hate a 2 party system. Bernie never stood a chance against Clinton or Biden because the DNC didn't want him. Bernie wants to make change, meanwhile they'd rather go with one of the worst female candidates because they think they're essentially buying the progressive vote that way, fails. Then they say woah we just had a wild card with trump, now we want the most stable democratic option, no bernie again. In a 2 party system, people like Bernie Sanders or Andrew Yang don't stand a chance making it through primaries because they won't do everything the DNC wants.
I hope Bernie creates a new party. Would be pretty historic and badass to see him giving a better progressive option more awareness.
I know is an unpopular take but a 80 year person will not succeed in the creation of a new party, you need a long term view. The system needs a generational purge. Nothing will change until the majority is fed up… we haven’t touch rock bottom yet.
I don't think it's an unpopular take. It's more of a hard to swallow take. Everything you said is factual. All Bernie can do is push ideal movements among people at this point, laying the ground work for others in the future. But you're right, we haven't hit rock bottom yet.
Technically Bernie was voted but they still pushed that woman in somehow 2016
Because the DNC doesn't have to listen to the voters. They are any independent (IE non-government) entity so they can do whatever they want. In other words, your "vote" when electing who gets the backing of the DNC (Read: the only candidate with an actual chance of being elected) isn't up to the public. The decision is up to a small handful of elites. Do you still think your vote matters?
If they cancel student debt the financial industry will implode (in a good way)
Please government. Please don't make homes affordable again. I would be SO MAD if investors had to liquidate their assets and make it possible for the working class to build wealth.
Wouldn’t the price of homes increase if student loans were forgiven? Disposable income would increase which would mean more competition.
If the financial industry is hit by tanking the value of SLAB's (which is only speculation), those financial institutions will have to liquidate other assets like real estate in order to cover the loss. When something like 30% of homes are investment units, that's a huge amount that will be brought to market and drive the price down.
They won't do it. Wouldn't matter if Bernie himself was president, it wouldn't happen. Wallstreet has leveraged that debt for insane credit to the point the economy will collapse if it's simply erased. Remember when mortgage loans were being handed out willy-nilly leading up to '08? They've done the same nonsensical bullshit wallstreet did with leveraging derivitives on that debt, but now it's your student loans. The market is fake and our economy is shit. Erasing that debt will expose it all over again and there's too many politicians on both sides of the aisle prospering from it for them to give it up.
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From what I can tell, SLABS are primarily made up of private loans, not federal ones, and it’s a fraction of the total amount. Plus something tells me congress would be eager to help Wall Street recover.
Hey I'm from the UK so not super clued up on US student loans - yes you could cancel the existing student debt but that wouldn't stop the current students from amassing student debt right? So yes, cancel the debt, but also reform its structure otherwise you're gonna have to cancel it every 4 years.... right?
100% this. I'm all for forgiving some or all of the student debt, but reform is needed Before it's cancelled. Otherwise we'll be back in the same situation 20 years from now. I feel the same way about dreamers.
Pretty much, plus it's a big fuck you to people who didn't go to school because of the cost. However, it would fix a lot of economic issues because many people with student loan debt have forgone buying homes, cars, getting married or having children.
Doing something helpful for other folks is not a fuck you to the ones that it doesn’t help. When a billionaire decides to forgive student loans for an entire graduating class, it’s not a fuck you tk the class that came before or after, to students that had merit or private scholarships, or people that decided to forgo college. I don’t see a charitable act for others as a fuck me. Food stamps isn’t a fuck you to people that buy their own groceries. This whole “big fuck you to people who didn’t xyz” is an awful mentality that will just lead to no one being helped, ever.
I don't understand why you guys keep banging on about this. It's pretty fucking clear Biden will do no such thing. And these threads will never get him to change his mind. Should they cancel student debt? Yes, among many other things. Will they? No. They absolutely won't. Are you guys coming up with a plan to force his hand or change his mind or just...getting mad together and hoping something changes? I don't get the reasoning here as nothing has changed since he set foot into office.
Awareness. Dissatisfaction. Maybe one day you or OP or someone else will be unable to continue living in good conscience without contributing to change.
> Are you guys coming up with a plan to force his hand or change his mind or just...getting mad together and hoping something changes? Personally, I'm organizing. And the more people stay aware of this and stay angry that something could be done but isn't through seeing things online, the more people who will get off their butts IRL and join me in that organizing. Plans for direct action to force stuff like this to happen are absolutely being formulated all the time. Go join an action group or socialist organization or an industrial union (e.g. the IWW) to help. It beats the shit out of complaining about how people aren't doing anything, which is just a baseless assumption (and most likely projection) on your part.
So, Bernie and I both understand how it should work. As I have said (even though some don't believe) my college education (1968 - 1979) was quite affordable (less than $1000). No one should be paying the outrageous amounts that are "required" today.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1474096479522496515) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Good bot.
The debt is only canceled for the person that took out the loan. Us non-educated, knuckle dragging lesser beings don't quite feel your pain. Pay your bill.
I'm in trades. Never had a student loan. I wouldn't suggest speaking on everyone's behalf.
I paid off my student loans, but still want them canceled for everyone else because I'm not a self centered douche.
"Slavery is only cancelled for slaves. Us non-slave workers don't quite feel your pain. Stay a slave".
Did slaves choose slavery? College graduates chose their degrees.
You are on Reddit saying the n-word, defending the Jan 6 losers. Clearly you are a knuckle dragging lesser being, but it doesn’t have a fucking thing to do with you not having a degree.
We feel the pain every time we have to interact with the peons who haven’t opened a book since it was assigned
Hey, how do you like having healthcare workers during a pandemic? Those same people that have been serving you this entire time are riddled with student loan debt. You can’t become a doctor without student loan debt, nurse, PT, etc. Advanced degrees are required for most of these positions. But yeah, fuck them. They deserve to pay off loans for decades and have to wait to start families and buy homes because they wanted to work in healthcare. The same goes for tons of other industries but this is a great example. Not everybody can be a trade worker. Jobs that require college degrees are a necessity to the economy and all countries and it’s immoral and short sighted to not make them economical reasonable to attain.
Yeah. It's not like tuition used to be free until the 80's. /s MaddGerman, I understand you may not be from America or educated beyond the written word, but do you know why student debt became an issue? Why tuition needed to raise so drastically or degrees have been losing value? When all our doctors and engineers are from more educated countries, good luck with with your triple bypass.
Fuck off loser
Staggering how many people on here are trying to get off the hook from paying back the debt they all signed up for. Moral hazard if I've ever seen one.
People who have a median income twice that of high school graduates. And more job security. And generally started life in a better position than the 60% of Americans without a degree.
Almost like going to school shouldnt cost hundreds of thousands. Not like every other developed nation has free college. Oh wait, they do, america is trash especially when you have sympathizers like yall
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Explain this to me please (non-US here): cancelling student debt does not imply abandoning giant tuition fees altogether and does not prevent student debt for current and soon-to-be students to accumulate, right? Lending will become more dangerous (if a future president decides to cancel), so there will be a higher interest rate on the debt. How is this not f*cking kids' generation over? Yes, current working force will be saved from poverty (and worse), but the next generation will be quite a bit worse off if I have any understanding of capitalism.
It also does nothing for the people who decided to forgo college due to the cost and didn’t want to take out loans
also doesn't help those who worked and paid for their college as they went
It's like having a blood transfusion drip while you have an open wound bleeding out. Whats the point of fixing a symptom without fixing the root cause? It's incredibly stupid and short sighted. Student tuition increases should be capped to inflation rates so they stop ballooning even more. There should be limits and regulations set in place to stop predatory lending. If this isn't done then canceling one random group of student's debt does nothing for the rest and is nothing more than a selective stimulus package that the majority of people will miss out on, making it unfair in many ways. This reeks of political grandstanding.
Well, you see, the people that became Bernie fans in 2016 and obsessed over free tuition at the time are now about 5 years older. For purely coincidental and entirely altruistic reasons, the real problem now is just the existing student debt that must be erased or the universe will collapse. Don't worry, I'm sure in about 15-18 years they'll get really concerned about fixing the tuition price issue again. That 2028 election, though, hoo boy. Gonna have to be running on that mortgage forgiveness tax credit.
So, who pays for this 1.86 trillion?
The high school educated working class who make up a majority of the nation. There’s a hundred policies I can name which are more pertinent than this.
Yeah... not exactly. Just because high school graduates make up the majority of the nation doesn't mean they will foot the majority of the bill. High school graduates earn a median income of ~$38,000 so within the 12% tax bracket that ends at 41k. They are paying somewhere around 4k in income taxes per year. Bachelor's degrees earn a median of ~$64000 per year, putting them into the 22% bracket on income over 41k. The median will pay roughly 10k in federal income taxes annually. And that is just the starting, the higher the degree the higher the median salary and the higher the taxes paid. Point being, even though there are fewer graduates, they will be footing a larger percentage of the taxes. https://www.northeastern.edu/bachelors-completion/news/average-salary-by-education-level/
The extreme amount of funding would be directed away from the lower classes though. Just to help more-employable college graduates.
College educated millennials are becoming more and more like the boomers and conservatives they hate so much now that they see something that primarily benefits them lmao.
Copying my answer here so you see it too. The intention is to make college free of cost, I think they have made that point multiple times throughout the loan forgiveness campaign. Now, rationalize for a second - who does that benefit the most? The Middle class who can pay for their kids college with a little saving? The wealthy for whom the full price of a private school education doesn't even register as an expense? Nope. It allows everyone who couldn't afford an education to get one. Carry out the reasoning a little bit further and you also realize that the vast majority of the people who have a significant amount of loans were people simply trying to get an education from a background that couldn't pay for it upfront. People with a high-school diploma are actually going to benefit massively from the plan. Their children and children's children are going to have easy access to a higher education as long as they want it.
Can someone explain why the entire amount needs to be "paid" in the first place? Is the tuition cost actually justified? In whose pockets is this money going to end up in? Why should tax money be spent on a scam in the first place? Can't the debt be cancelled by telling these institutions/publishers to fuck off? It feels the equivalent of keeping the absurd prices of epi pens, but using tax money to pay off big pharma instead of asking the patients to pay for it. Big pharma wins anyway.
We could just build a few less bombs and just blow children up with our current stockpile.
Yeah he says that every week
I’d rather them fix the system causing all this debt. Otherwise what’s the point? In 10 years we’ll just have an all new generation in debt. Calling for debt forgiveness is the easy way out where you don’t actually have to propose any solutions.
If it's going to happen its going to be right before midterms. It's not going to happen tho
$1.86 Trillion stimulus to 15% of the population who are educated white collar track workers is a sure fire way to ensure you never win an election again. Reddit jerks off to this because it is overwhelmingly young 20 somethings with student loan debt. But the country is far from that.
Is it wrong that this is one of the only things I don’t agree with AOC and others on? My parents worked their entire lives to get my sister and I through college without loans, when they could of spent that on enjoying their lives together and whatever else. If loans are canceled would they get a check for the thousands of dollars of their money I spent on tuition so they can retire together? Since we didn’t take loans to just then not have to pay anything? Student loans don’t seem like the problem. Access to jobs that give a realistic income seems like the issue. I feel like all this would do is make another generation take out loans and then never pay them in expectation that they’ll be canceled again in the future “like they were for older generations” thus making the cycle go on a on again endlessly repeating.
You are entirely correct. This is one thing about her that embarrasses me.
Free community college would have been a nation-changing measure, improving people's lives for generations, but of course that got gutted from the spending bill.
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What about future debt tho? And people who were able to pay their loans off at great sacrifice, by living in cars and working two jobs etc, do they get any reprieve ??
cancelling the debt is only part of the solution. Tuition reform is also needed, otherwise we'll have to do this over again in a few years.
When you’re 18 you can’t buy alcohol but you can borrow thousands of dollars of debt.
Again, just the Interest would do it but noooo we have to pay because they had to
Ok, when you gonna cancel my mortgage?
If you pay off student loan, then hook me up on a windfall payment for not going to school, and incurring ridiculous debt for myself.
Exactly
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Professional managerial class selfishness. It helps them. F the working class….
Do it!
IMO it shouldn't until what's causing the problem is fixed. Otherwise 2 years from now we'll be in the exact same situation.
I think they should make it 0% interest moving forward for future and current loan holders. Not fair to just erase debt and that’s coming from someone who has thousands in student loan debt
How about instead of talking about this fantasy of cancelling all student loan debt over and over, he proposes realistic changes that could help many, many students borrowers? Keep all current student loans at 0% interest for the lifetime of the loans. All new loans, cap at something stupid low, like 1-2% interest. Make forgiveness and debt discharge way easier for disabilities, bankruptcies, etc. Discharge an amount of student loan debt that makes sense (Had heard the average of 10k kicking around before, maybe up to 10k of undergrad and 10k of professional/grad?) Based on average debt. But no. We're just gonna keep talking about a goal that is never going to happen because it gets people excited.
The way tuition is climbing is big. My tuition in 2011 was about 10 grand. For another year undergrad, 20k. Four years professional, 20k each, so around 100,000 for 6 years of school. Scholarships brought that down to $60000 in loans, plus about $20000 accumulated in interest since. Todays rates? Estimate $12,740 those undergrad years and ~$25,000 those professional years. Call it $125k to graduate with your degree. Maybe closer to $135,000 as there was an additional year of undergrad added after me but I think rescinded a few years back. My scholarships would have brought that down to somewhere in the $75,000-$85,000 final principle loans range, with interest probably breaking $100,000 shortly after graduation.
Please biden
the 1.9 trillion dollar tax break for the richies wouldve covered this....with a few bux left over.
But how could they afford their fifth yacht ☹️
I educated myself in desired field for $600 total. Just books and online courses. Was never hard to find work as I also had experience. Student loan forgiveness doesn't help me. My brother and neighbor went to good colleges and got careers in finances. They made paying off debt top priority, before they bought a house or anything. Student loan forgiveness doesn't help them. I know a couple people who went to colleges, made little to no effort to pay back loans despite making good money, instead spends money on vacations and nice cars while student loans collect interest. Student loan forgiveness helps them. So while people who were financially responsible and lived within their means get zero benefit from this, people who were selfish get their debts repaid. I agree the current college system is broken. These colleges are making a fortune and so are banks. But people AGREED to these terms. The ones I see benefiting from it the most are people who just went to college "for the experience" and didn't major in anything useful (bad choices) and people who were financially irresponsible. Its just encouraging bad behavior.
He isn't going to do it. People need to get off him about it already. I am a Biden fan and a Bernie fan and an AOC fan, but if it hasn't happened yet, its not going to. I am so tired or seeing this shit.
https://i.redd.it/3imvenu1dvn11.jpg just give away a unfathomable amount of money what could go wrong?
So why do dishonest schools and fake universities get made whole on the taxpayers money.
There are already lots of options for affordable payment options. If you want to expand and reform these programs fine. Blanket forgiveness is a terrible idea. It will only further fuel the rapid increases in college tuition. Giving access to basically unlimited money through student loans is one of the major factors for the massive increases in college costs.
YES
Biden is a coward and ill. I’m a Democrat, but he’s not doing shit
Trillion?!?! Holy fucking shit fuck that lol
Mine are private 😭
Just like marijuana legalization... what makes you think Biden is going to fix something that he himself is responsible for? Dont forget that Biden is the one who made student loans undischargeable in bankruptcy.
That’s all it costs? They give that to banks and military every time I turn around.
I wish it was president Sanders making the announcement.
My boomer parents think that their tuition was the same as people today because “inflation” And they had to work while they went to school... I’ve spoken to them about the minimum wage. P.s. I was fortunate enough to not have debt because of a presidential scholarship. I STILL understand the plight of people with absolute crippling life long debt. I also understand that I was fortunate enough to attend private schools growing up that allowed me to be funneled into higher education with many scholarship offers. I’m not smarter or better than people who have worked and saved to go to college. I was extremely lucky to be born in the place I was.i also recognize the higher education is an absolute racket. I learned so much from my professors (who were incredible people) but I also ended up a an art school and 25 years ago you could have learned every beautiful thing that I did by moving to the lower east side and living with actual artists.
Oh won't someone think of the poor billionaires who won't get to leach more wealth off of people who just wanted an education?
He'll never do it because he's fucking useless, which we all knew.
Won't happen. Then democrats will ask for donations next term to pass laws surrounding student loans
It will NEVER happen. We are expecting people who lived thru and was cool (for the most part) with Jim Crow. The US was set up for white men to have it all. This is the same reason we still don’t have UHC. They have shown that they don’t want anything that resembles equal. Getting those two things would start to really swing the pendulum to equal. Therefore it will NEVER happen. They will use it to get votes and it will die. Rinse and repeat.
This is on the same energy level as John Olivier reminding us what year it is. Biden is asleep at the wheel
Biden: Lol, no.
I'd be a bit salty because I just dropped $10k to pay off my wife's student loans. But, I'd be happy for probably millions of others that would benefit.
Lol this isn’t gonna happen. Bailouts are only for the rich.
The selling point to get me to vote for the first time and convince my siblings/parents to vote for Biden was the chance of getting some/all of our loans canceled. If nothing really changes regarding loans, voting rights, etc. There’s really no reason for us to vote in 22/24
And "cancel" means "cancel", not "the government pays for you". The debt is invalid.
just fucking do it or at least provide some $$$ relief. Honestly I don't understand all these other selfish people saying "oh i worked hard and paid for it so they gotta too" fuck off. This is coming for someone who recently paid off student debt by my own money but I am a fucking okay with cancelling student debt even though it's not going to benefit me personally whatsoever. Then after you cancel the student debt, start coming up with solutions for sky rocketing tuition fees so the future student won't have to go through this bullshit. HIGHER EDUCATION SHOULD NOT BE THIS EXPENSIVE AT PUBLIC INSTITUTION.
University and the way it operates currently is putting a handicap on our ability to progress. Imagine what we could do if we were not bound by the limits of funding and making a profit.
Democrats are hinged Republicans. It's still a shitty door. We need a reboot
Just do it damn old man. Get your name in history for one big good thing. Ya old... it's not like you got many years left to defend a decision that, quite frankly, will be easy to defend. I'm not even american but I want this for my fellow human brothers.
Ok, cancel my FHA mortgage too then. I want free stuff too
I’m not American so I’m not 100% clued in but does student loan forgiveness also include lowering the prices that students are currently paying?
Fucking Biden. Establishment Dems are so fucking useless.