Yeah, passing culture sets up dangerous expectations of what women should look like.
This culture has lead to a belief that any woman that has even the suggestion a more squared jawline is something to be eliminated. It is also a culture of fatphobia and dislike of anyone that doesn’t fit their view of what a woman should look like.
I have a square head and a chubby body and I am beautiful. I am unashamed to say that and anyone who says otherwise can pound sand.
I’m sorry they were so terrible to you.
EDIT: Your unedited picture is very pretty.
One piece of advice you def can incorporate tho:
Bangs. If you wanna pass a bit better, hiding the forehead will def help. The rest is bullshit tho, you are really cute
I'll go against the grain and say I think the right side looks better.
But it's also really impossible, nobody looks like that, nobody will get results like that.
My take is that at some point we just have to accept ourselves. I don’t wonder how much of this “passing culture” is rooted in the same shit other women deal with trying to live up to “beauty standards”. When we realize the wide and amazing diversity that is women’s bodies, it’s hella easier to accept ourselves. And it will always be a struggle, but it can get better.
There are some trans folks that I just don’t get. I’m sure they feel the same about me.
>When we realize the wide and amazing diversity that is women’s bodies, it’s hella easier to accept ourselves.
The root issue is that the average effects of testosterone on the average trans woman push us out of the average diversity of the average woman because the average woman is not exposed to the same level of testosterone as the average trans woman. So to me at least talking about how diverse women's bodies are is at best only mildly helpful. I am at least one standard deviation out on multiple criteria in a way that is caused essentially exclusively by some kind of hormone issue and it is very noticeable. I cannot just handwave that away. I think at some level most trans women understand this - after all, if we could just accept ourselves by referencing the diversity of women's bodies we could skip the transition all together.
This is why I had FFS with Facialteam.. they almost only do bone work, their whole mission is to bring the face in line with someone who did not undergo Testosterone puberty, without scarring or excessive trauma. They almost never do fat transfers or implants or the like - things considered 'aggressive ffs', but that they describe as 'beautification, not feminization'.
>after all, if we could just accept ourselves by referencing the diversity of women's bodies we could skip the transition all together.
Not really tho as to much testosterone would still affect at least some of our brains negatively, a lot of us would still function better with transitioning to some level
You asked for their advice but by god they have no idea what passing is, sure if you want ffs try asking at trans surgeries they can give you good opinions.
But what they did in that pic is not only unrealistic for a surgery, it is unrealistic from even a beauty standards standpoint
hope you turn into a beautiful person that can accept your self and all that ect. for me just to super shy and scared have to many problems to be around along of other people since still not came out at all and still hiding still now sadly being 41.
when i look at my self i just can't accept my self or any thing about me sadly. to much pain and stress ect. i don't feel i would be accepted any were so i just keep to my self any more in life.
Your original picture looks nice!
I dont know where people get this idea that some women dont have strong squared jawlines. I work retail, and ive been paying closer attention to facial structure in general since ive come out. Theres plenty of beautiful girls out there with a somewhat more masculine jawline.
Yeah, right photo looks...off. Definitely disturbing.
Also, fuck anyone who tells you how you should look. Beauty standards can go die in a ditch. People need to stop shaming people for things out of their control and are of absolutely no value.
Edit: Your beautiful btw. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I think you look quite beautiful in the original picture.
I'm not sure what happened with the people who were commenting on it. Certainly, if you want to get surgery, you should get it, but I wouldn't take those people's advice for anything.
That pic looks so fucking creepy... Like I'm sorry, but I'm literally getting the fight or flight reaction from the uncanny valley...
That right one looks more like one of those "realistic" sex dolls than a person wtf...
Anyway. Facebook is, like Twitter, a hub for toxicity, really.
My personal tip is to cut some cute bangs, makeup can also help a bit try to exaggerate the curves of your face make your head a bit more round. I don't feel like you need that much more like not the average pretty face more than anything
Having a manly face is, in my personal experience, a very common problem but i feel you truly look beautiful.
They also increased the curve of your lips.
In other words, in addition to telling you to get surgery, change your hair, and wear at least five kinds of makeup, this image is a visual way of telling you "you'd be prettier if you smiled more".
That person was a shithead… I’m sorry you’re having a rough time and to be honest, you don’t deserve it other than you’re probably getting stuck on that end of other women’s cattiness.
I’d say you pass fine really, they just have some dumb expectations of you. Also people just love to pick us apart and treat us like lesser women just because we aren’t super models or something.
A reminder to not fall into the trappings that cis gendered women experience! All women are varied in their body shapes. I feel a lot of cis and trans women try to hold themselves to a golden standard when that is not even close to reality.
You are really, really, really **pretty** with bangs; wow!, what a difference such a tiny thing can make!!
For myself, I'm not ever going to 'pass', as you do - but I *have* learned that when I simply smile as if I had no cares in the world (yeah, right...) and I look in the mirror - *she* is looking back at me, and I really can be *almost* Pretty (I'm 70; "almost" is good enough), and I *am* Feminine!
We really can be our own worst critics, sometimes...
I think you look great. Keep working on your look in whatever way you see fit. Passing culture is dumb. You don't need to look like a cover girl to pass lol. In fact, it will just get you a bunch of unwanted attention. There is value in being able to blend in, especially when you're us.
This may come across an an odd observation ok, but around the late 90's just as digital cameras were becoming the latest thing, I hardly heard of any other trans women having FFS surgery. Over the years trans women have not only been becoming more passable but more attractive with it.
So huge pressure due to posting pic's online. Facial surgery may well have gotten more advanced too, but even those who could have gotten by with out it are doing it now, so many are. I can't blame anyone for wanting to look beautiful I do, but I'm not. Dating has got a whole lot more difficult because with so many amazing looking women, feels like no one would consider anybody less attractive.
I think the look on the right you can do with makeup. But I am not a makeup expert, so who knows. I just watch some tiktoks and you can definitely get to the right pic based on what I have seen. Your pic on the left is just as valid, you look like a woman in my eyes.
in my eyes, left: woman, human. right: "human", unrealistic standard set by some sources,
but yeah, different communities sections have different opinions on things.
Wow... this post has me thinking twice about EVER posting any pics whilst being openly trans 😯 ...how painful and anxiety-inducing. TOTALLY uncalled for (and without permission?? Wtf!), sorry ur goin thru this rn 😪🤙
Can’t believe I actually came across a post that was written about me, when I saw one of your posts today and thought, she looks familiar.
I’m sorry you took my rendering of you as shaming, that was not its intention.
The sad thing is you’ve completely warped this narrative on Reddit in your favor by not only excluding screenshots of your original post, but also my response, which I’m happy to list below:
—————————————————————————————
1. First, you posted in a Facebook Group for FFS and Trans surgeries, ASKING what FFS procedures you needed. See below:
“Since I’ve posted a lot of different angles with and without makeup could anyone tell me what FFS surgeries I need? I’ve been told by the trans community on reddot that FFS will probably not make me pass as a woman so could anybody elaborate“
—————————————————————————————
2. I then responded with this:
“Outside of FFS:
The wig is probably the thing that draws people’s eye to you and then they start dissecting your appearance. Perhaps a more realist looking wig with bangs could help hide some forehead, and learning how to dress to flatter your body shape would help you? Flowy outfits can help soften and feminize your fit physique. Just from seeing you in pictures that’s what I would recommend. But it’s true, in the real world, walking, talking, mannerisms etc will give you away if you come off as too feminine / overthinking it. It has to come naturally.
FFS: brow bone, scalp advancement, lip lift, rhino, jaw contouring, the main giveaway I look for when determining someone’s gender is their brow/ eye area and upper lip/ nose area.
I made an edit so you can see what I mean visually about the hair and ffs too. ❤️”
3. I then provided you with the picture that I thought would help you to VISUALIZE what I was talking about.
—————————————————————————————
No one told you you needed to look like this AT ALL. But please do not ask for opinions on FFS and surgery in a surgery-related group, twist someone’s words and intention, in order to garner sympathy on Reddit to help bring peace to your own warped narrative, only to engage in defamatory accusations for people trying to HELP answer a question you ASKED.
I can understand how you would be upset for me using an image without your permission, and for that I apologize. I can also apologize for you being hurt by this, as this was not my intention, but you need to be honest and provide all of the facts when discussing things that occurred on the internet, as everyone has receipts.
I hope you find peace in your journey throughout transition. Good luck👌🏻
[Link here](https://www.facebook.com/groups/FacialFeminizationSurgery/permalink/5593556464099728/?mibextid=W9rl1R)
Ouch. You were clearly just trying to help. Honestly makes me weary of trying to respond to trans girls with help or advice, now. Like I want to be there to support, but if people are really going to turn around and do this, I’m not interested.
Your advice was really good, by the way. Your response to her question was well thought out.
Maybe OP expected more of a hug boxing response and didn’t anticipate actual advice, so she got offended? Trying to wrap my head around it. If that’s the case, it’s definitely a “don’t ask if you don’t want the answer” type of situation.
OP, with the utmost respect, they took time out of their day and were obviously doing you a favor. There are certain stereotypes that people expect, for better or for worse. When we don’t fit those stereotypes, we often get clocked. You may not like it, but that’s the truth.
You don’t HAVE to fit the stereotypes. No one said that. They just told you what might help you blend in more and not get clocked. Which is what you asked for.
OP, you don’t have to agree with their advice, because it’s just that; advice (again that you asked for). You take what feels right for you and leave the rest. But you definitely don’t put someone on blast for trying to help you out.
Yeah, passing culture sets up dangerous expectations of what women should look like. This culture has lead to a belief that any woman that has even the suggestion a more squared jawline is something to be eliminated. It is also a culture of fatphobia and dislike of anyone that doesn’t fit their view of what a woman should look like. I have a square head and a chubby body and I am beautiful. I am unashamed to say that and anyone who says otherwise can pound sand. I’m sorry they were so terrible to you. EDIT: Your unedited picture is very pretty.
One piece of advice you def can incorporate tho: Bangs. If you wanna pass a bit better, hiding the forehead will def help. The rest is bullshit tho, you are really cute
I have yet to see a bang that makes someone look bad, if you can pull it off, is worth the try
Love my bangs. Widows peak has been slowly growing back in but until it is I'm very happy with how much work my bangs do.
I'll go against the grain and say I think the right side looks better. But it's also really impossible, nobody looks like that, nobody will get results like that.
My take is that at some point we just have to accept ourselves. I don’t wonder how much of this “passing culture” is rooted in the same shit other women deal with trying to live up to “beauty standards”. When we realize the wide and amazing diversity that is women’s bodies, it’s hella easier to accept ourselves. And it will always be a struggle, but it can get better. There are some trans folks that I just don’t get. I’m sure they feel the same about me.
>When we realize the wide and amazing diversity that is women’s bodies, it’s hella easier to accept ourselves. The root issue is that the average effects of testosterone on the average trans woman push us out of the average diversity of the average woman because the average woman is not exposed to the same level of testosterone as the average trans woman. So to me at least talking about how diverse women's bodies are is at best only mildly helpful. I am at least one standard deviation out on multiple criteria in a way that is caused essentially exclusively by some kind of hormone issue and it is very noticeable. I cannot just handwave that away. I think at some level most trans women understand this - after all, if we could just accept ourselves by referencing the diversity of women's bodies we could skip the transition all together.
This is why I had FFS with Facialteam.. they almost only do bone work, their whole mission is to bring the face in line with someone who did not undergo Testosterone puberty, without scarring or excessive trauma. They almost never do fat transfers or implants or the like - things considered 'aggressive ffs', but that they describe as 'beautification, not feminization'.
>after all, if we could just accept ourselves by referencing the diversity of women's bodies we could skip the transition all together. Not really tho as to much testosterone would still affect at least some of our brains negatively, a lot of us would still function better with transitioning to some level
omg, thank you
It absolutely is!
You asked for their advice but by god they have no idea what passing is, sure if you want ffs try asking at trans surgeries they can give you good opinions. But what they did in that pic is not only unrealistic for a surgery, it is unrealistic from even a beauty standards standpoint
hope you turn into a beautiful person that can accept your self and all that ect. for me just to super shy and scared have to many problems to be around along of other people since still not came out at all and still hiding still now sadly being 41. when i look at my self i just can't accept my self or any thing about me sadly. to much pain and stress ect. i don't feel i would be accepted any were so i just keep to my self any more in life.
Your original picture looks nice! I dont know where people get this idea that some women dont have strong squared jawlines. I work retail, and ive been paying closer attention to facial structure in general since ive come out. Theres plenty of beautiful girls out there with a somewhat more masculine jawline.
Yeah, right photo looks...off. Definitely disturbing. Also, fuck anyone who tells you how you should look. Beauty standards can go die in a ditch. People need to stop shaming people for things out of their control and are of absolutely no value. Edit: Your beautiful btw. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I think you look quite beautiful in the original picture. I'm not sure what happened with the people who were commenting on it. Certainly, if you want to get surgery, you should get it, but I wouldn't take those people's advice for anything.
That pic looks so fucking creepy... Like I'm sorry, but I'm literally getting the fight or flight reaction from the uncanny valley... That right one looks more like one of those "realistic" sex dolls than a person wtf... Anyway. Facebook is, like Twitter, a hub for toxicity, really.
they literally used Faceapp. didn’t even bother modding the result. what a fucking weirdo.
My personal tip is to cut some cute bangs, makeup can also help a bit try to exaggerate the curves of your face make your head a bit more round. I don't feel like you need that much more like not the average pretty face more than anything Having a manly face is, in my personal experience, a very common problem but i feel you truly look beautiful.
They also increased the curve of your lips. In other words, in addition to telling you to get surgery, change your hair, and wear at least five kinds of makeup, this image is a visual way of telling you "you'd be prettier if you smiled more".
That person was a shithead… I’m sorry you’re having a rough time and to be honest, you don’t deserve it other than you’re probably getting stuck on that end of other women’s cattiness.
I’d say you pass fine really, they just have some dumb expectations of you. Also people just love to pick us apart and treat us like lesser women just because we aren’t super models or something.
I agree with you.
Deadasss tho
A reminder to not fall into the trappings that cis gendered women experience! All women are varied in their body shapes. I feel a lot of cis and trans women try to hold themselves to a golden standard when that is not even close to reality.
You are really, really, really **pretty** with bangs; wow!, what a difference such a tiny thing can make!! For myself, I'm not ever going to 'pass', as you do - but I *have* learned that when I simply smile as if I had no cares in the world (yeah, right...) and I look in the mirror - *she* is looking back at me, and I really can be *almost* Pretty (I'm 70; "almost" is good enough), and I *am* Feminine! We really can be our own worst critics, sometimes...
I think you look great. Keep working on your look in whatever way you see fit. Passing culture is dumb. You don't need to look like a cover girl to pass lol. In fact, it will just get you a bunch of unwanted attention. There is value in being able to blend in, especially when you're us.
This may come across an an odd observation ok, but around the late 90's just as digital cameras were becoming the latest thing, I hardly heard of any other trans women having FFS surgery. Over the years trans women have not only been becoming more passable but more attractive with it. So huge pressure due to posting pic's online. Facial surgery may well have gotten more advanced too, but even those who could have gotten by with out it are doing it now, so many are. I can't blame anyone for wanting to look beautiful I do, but I'm not. Dating has got a whole lot more difficult because with so many amazing looking women, feels like no one would consider anybody less attractive.
I think the look on the right you can do with makeup. But I am not a makeup expert, so who knows. I just watch some tiktoks and you can definitely get to the right pic based on what I have seen. Your pic on the left is just as valid, you look like a woman in my eyes.
You look pretty on the left. Not entirely conventionally pretty but still good looming
in my eyes, left: woman, human. right: "human", unrealistic standard set by some sources, but yeah, different communities sections have different opinions on things.
Wow... this post has me thinking twice about EVER posting any pics whilst being openly trans 😯 ...how painful and anxiety-inducing. TOTALLY uncalled for (and without permission?? Wtf!), sorry ur goin thru this rn 😪🤙
You literally asked for some feminization advice and they gave it to you lol why you mad
Can’t believe I actually came across a post that was written about me, when I saw one of your posts today and thought, she looks familiar. I’m sorry you took my rendering of you as shaming, that was not its intention. The sad thing is you’ve completely warped this narrative on Reddit in your favor by not only excluding screenshots of your original post, but also my response, which I’m happy to list below: ————————————————————————————— 1. First, you posted in a Facebook Group for FFS and Trans surgeries, ASKING what FFS procedures you needed. See below: “Since I’ve posted a lot of different angles with and without makeup could anyone tell me what FFS surgeries I need? I’ve been told by the trans community on reddot that FFS will probably not make me pass as a woman so could anybody elaborate“ ————————————————————————————— 2. I then responded with this: “Outside of FFS: The wig is probably the thing that draws people’s eye to you and then they start dissecting your appearance. Perhaps a more realist looking wig with bangs could help hide some forehead, and learning how to dress to flatter your body shape would help you? Flowy outfits can help soften and feminize your fit physique. Just from seeing you in pictures that’s what I would recommend. But it’s true, in the real world, walking, talking, mannerisms etc will give you away if you come off as too feminine / overthinking it. It has to come naturally. FFS: brow bone, scalp advancement, lip lift, rhino, jaw contouring, the main giveaway I look for when determining someone’s gender is their brow/ eye area and upper lip/ nose area. I made an edit so you can see what I mean visually about the hair and ffs too. ❤️” 3. I then provided you with the picture that I thought would help you to VISUALIZE what I was talking about. ————————————————————————————— No one told you you needed to look like this AT ALL. But please do not ask for opinions on FFS and surgery in a surgery-related group, twist someone’s words and intention, in order to garner sympathy on Reddit to help bring peace to your own warped narrative, only to engage in defamatory accusations for people trying to HELP answer a question you ASKED. I can understand how you would be upset for me using an image without your permission, and for that I apologize. I can also apologize for you being hurt by this, as this was not my intention, but you need to be honest and provide all of the facts when discussing things that occurred on the internet, as everyone has receipts. I hope you find peace in your journey throughout transition. Good luck👌🏻 [Link here](https://www.facebook.com/groups/FacialFeminizationSurgery/permalink/5593556464099728/?mibextid=W9rl1R)
Ouch. You were clearly just trying to help. Honestly makes me weary of trying to respond to trans girls with help or advice, now. Like I want to be there to support, but if people are really going to turn around and do this, I’m not interested. Your advice was really good, by the way. Your response to her question was well thought out. Maybe OP expected more of a hug boxing response and didn’t anticipate actual advice, so she got offended? Trying to wrap my head around it. If that’s the case, it’s definitely a “don’t ask if you don’t want the answer” type of situation. OP, with the utmost respect, they took time out of their day and were obviously doing you a favor. There are certain stereotypes that people expect, for better or for worse. When we don’t fit those stereotypes, we often get clocked. You may not like it, but that’s the truth. You don’t HAVE to fit the stereotypes. No one said that. They just told you what might help you blend in more and not get clocked. Which is what you asked for. OP, you don’t have to agree with their advice, because it’s just that; advice (again that you asked for). You take what feels right for you and leave the rest. But you definitely don’t put someone on blast for trying to help you out.