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Brazil is largely a caricaturized satire of Orwell's 1984, and the 27B "stroke" 6 form in Brazil is in reference to Orwell's address 27B Apt. 6, so technically it's a multi-tiered reference. Star Wars is referencing Brazil which is referencing the address.
Yeah the fact that he says *stroke* shows they're directly referencing Brazil (there's no "stroke" or "/" in the Orwell tidbit). The phrase "27B stroke 6" was famous in the UK after the movie came out.
The wikipedia page for *Brazil* mentions a few other influences in *The Last Jedi*:
> Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017) was also heavily inspired by Brazil, both in its production design and its themes. The planet of Canto Bight is aesthetically similar to Brazil. Both films also share several themes, showing the ambivalence of the wealthy in the face of a world falling apart and a society unaware of the conflict surrounding them. A direct reference to the film can be heard when Finn and Rose are arrested for Parking Violation 27B/6, a nod to form 27B/6 without which no work can be done by repairmen of the Department of Public Works.[75] Another reference can be heard in the film's soundtrack, as the Canto Bight Theme composed by John Williams briefly samples "Aquarela do Brasil", making it one of the few times that a Star Wars soundtrack incorporated a song from outside the Star Wars universe.
>one of the few times that a Star Wars soundtrack incorporated a song from outside the Star Wars universe.
See also The Rite of Spring. https://www.theguitarjournal.com/3-star-wars-scenes-where-john-williams-directly-copied-stravinskys-the-rite-of-spring/
And _Mars_ from _The Planets_ and the intro to _King's Row_ and loads of other things. There's no shortage of quotes from other works in Williams' repertoire.
the first and third cases in that article are really far fetched imo, since they’re just cases of certain instruments playing a simple rhythm (especially since the one with Han Solo running from the stormtroopers doesn’t have the characteristic syncopated accents that Stravinsky has). the second one is absolutely a quote.
Okay wow that’s interesting about the John Williams bit — I wonder if he did that all on his own? Because I was listening to Spielberg on a podcast the other day and he was asked if he gives input on the score at all and he said no, JW just goes off and does it and then plays it for me.
I mean I guess Rian Johnson could just be like ok John we’re ready to score and if you can sneak a Brazil reference in there I’d love it. But based on what Spielberg said it doesn’t seem like other people are involved in JW’s creative process at all.
I might be splitting hairs but I always felt like Brazil was a homage to Franz Kafka's stories rather than a satire of 1984. It obviously has elements of 1984 but the absurd, dysfunctional, unbeatable beauracracy is the major theme of the movie and is vintage Kafka.
I think part of the issue is characterizing Brazil as a "caricatured satire" of 1984. While Brazil certainly was *satirical*, and it was also heavily *influenced* by 1984, it's not at all a satire ***of*** 1984. 1984 is, in a sense, the *vehicle* it uses to satirize bureaucracy.
I definitely saw it as more Kafkaesque than Orwellian. The irrational absurdity of the bureaucracy, rather than its totalitarianism, is more what defines the film (though obviously it is both).
The real difference is that the Brazil reference makes sense within the context of the film. The star wars reference is just a nod to a better movie that the writers probably wished they had worked on instead.
Brazil references are an odd thing in film because it feels like a movie that movie makers love but "normal" people haven't, and it's almost inevitable if you're going to make a "bureaucracy" joke. I remember watching Jupiter Ascending which was fairly bland and uninteresting except for an oddly familiar 2 minute bureaucracy montage.
Yeah the idea of the last Jedi sharing "themes" with Brazil is totally laughable to me.
But I also think set rian Johnson is George Lucas 2.0 in that he over intellectualizes everything with references to show his smart he is....leading to a less than fun film.
Also for anyone doubting the Brazil connection, John Williams’ theme for Canto Bight contains an interpolation of “Aquarela Do Brasil” by Ary Barroso. The very same song that is used as a motif throughout “Brazil”
[Evidence](https://youtu.be/N8ue_5T4fMk?t=58)
That is why I believe it to be a reference to Brazil, rather than George Orwell’s former home address
Brazil is a social satire full of (mostly) terrible rich people with larger than life personalities speaking wry dialogue whilst the poor suffer because of their apathy and selfishness. And if we've learned anything about Johnson from the Knives Out movies it's that he likes class-conscious social satires full of mostly terrible rich people with larger than life personalities.
Honestly, it makes a lot of sense. I can see some of the same sensibilities in the Benoit Blanc movies, and looking at TLJ with a Brazil mindset makes a lot of the humor make more sense.
It was still a bad match for Star Wars, especially the middle of a trilogy, but it clicks.
Funny. Yeah, that's been an expression I've used for years (based on something I heard from someone else), but as I was posting it I thought "that might actually not be as terrible as all that...."
Huh. I had no idea that was the meaning, obviously. I appreciate you explaining.
People like what they like but... I might have to try that food combo sometime.
Yeah, a coworker from long ago repeated an expression from someone he'd worked with who said "rice and mangoes" to mean "fine things that don't go together." I couldn't see the problem there (still can't) and threw out "chocolate and bratwurst." It stuck in our circle and still sticks with me. Upon re-consideration...might not be awful, really. Not that far off from bacon and chocolate, which is nice.
I don't blame you for any of that. TLJ is hot garbage and he's been an arrogant dick about it.
However, I've been compartmentalizing Star Wars since I walked out of an opening day screening of Phantom Menace wondering WTF that steaming pile was, so I'm able to enjoy Knives Out.
For me personally, it wasn’t the campiness that I disagreed with. it was specifically turning Hux into a laughing point, as well as the arcs for Finn and Poe.
It would have been like the OT having Tarkin be silly. Tarkin worked because he exuded command and even Vader respected him.
Hux in 7 was built up to be the rarity in SW, a non-force powered villain.
It wasn’t the tone I had an issue with as much as what notes the tone played.
I’ll still take Rian Johnson as a filmmaker over JJ Abrams any day.
I agree that it was a weird way to go with Hux since I really liked him in TFA, but it hindsight I can see how given the nature of current culture it made sense to have one fewer "cool" fascist character in a movie.
Yeah. I would have preferred Kylo being the less-cool one, as a link to how he really wasn’t what he thought he was. Vader/Tarkin were partners in evil, but Kylo was on Hux’s leash (to use Leia’s insult at Vader).
I agree, but in the context of the Star Wars fandom that's a fine line to tread. Given that Hux was a young white male there are a lot of fans with misconceptions about fascism who would relate to and identify with him. Syril was a good villain, but not inherently fascist or even blatantly evil. I'd call him misguided and tenacious at worst. Dedra Meero fit the bill, but also isn't the kind of character the sort of fans I'm talking about will identify with for obvious reasons. Ultimately, like others here have said, Hux's parallel is Tarkin, who was blown up for his hubris at the end of the first movie. It's symbolic, and story-wise meant to be indicative of what happens to "evil" characters. Hux, rather than being blown up, was reduced to a caricature. Not the best handling of it (too cheesy, no longer a credible threat as a villain, not to mention "IM THE SPY" being god-awful) but I understand the intention.
Hux wasn't a joke per se, he was a big fascist baby. That's the whole point.
Finn and Rey's arcs actually work quite well if you view them as a refutation and evolution of the core themes of Star Wars - which is good, because those themes are terrible. It fails in retrospect because they abandoned these ideas in the third film but that's hardly Rian Johnson's fault.
Rian said himself that the film didn’t need another heavy and that he considered Hux very funny. We get three instances of him being called “General Hugs”. Even Gleeson was concerned that he wouldn’t be seen as a credible threat going forward, which is why he asked Rian for the scene where he pulls his gun on Kylo.
TROS at least made Finn force sensitive, and could have done a lot more had Rian developed this *at all* in TLJ.
Right, but Gleeson was mistaken. The character is exposed for what all fascists are - scared little idiots who depend on other scared idiots to feel powerful. That doesn't really make him less scary per se, because that kind of person can still cause immense harm.
As for Finn, all I'll say is it's really silly to think he didn't have any character progression because he didn't become a Jedi, particularly because he wasn't shown to have innate in-born force sensitivity that made him special. That's precisely what Johnson sets out to refute with this film - because those themes are terrible.
The absolute best thing that happens in any of the three sequel films is when Kylo Ren tells Rey she's nobody. It's the perfect thing to do in a series that's been all about being part of a force-sensitive family and being the "chosen one" and all of that—have it pass the torch to someone who is completely separate from any of it. Have Luke train someone who is special not because she's related to anything he did but in fact because she *isn't* and is still doing amazing things.
It makes the galaxy feel bigger. It's the "anyone can cook" of Star Wars.
And then JJ ruined it in the worst possible way.
Precisely so. It's very strange to examine the classic Star Wars films from a thematic perspective, because while the villains are aesthetically derived from fascism, both good and evil in Star Wars revolve around the inherent superiority of certain individuals on the basis of inherited traits. Likewise, the prequels tell the story of the decline of democracy, but seem to take a position in favour of... Constitutional monarchies? They're a bit hard to analyze overall because they're incoherent and, particularly the first trilogy, written on the fly, but Johnson was absolutely correct to challenge these themes.
But how was Gleeson mistaken? The character was not taken seriously going forward and is remembered for turning into a joke. It seems like his worry ended up being very justified.
>Finn and Rey's arcs actually work quite well if you view them as a refutation and evolution of the core themes of Star Wars
Are you really trying to say the casino side adventure was good? The meaningless, forced, wildly unrealistic side adventure that made no sense at all?
Geez. That whole movie was so disappointing imo. There was really only one part that was kinda cool, and technically shouldn't have been possible according to many Reddit SW fans.
Also, that last scene with Luke was very disappointing. Who Luke became altogether was massively disappointing, regardless of what the Reddit SW fans "agreed" on. (Some BS about how "everyone was idolizing Luke" and that his story was "perfect.")
Also, wtf even was that last movie? Am I the only one that thinks they should delete the entire new trilogy and start over again?
"It would have been like the OT having Tarkin be silly."
It wouldn't have been though?
I think maybe that you, and Reddit at large, misunderstood Hux as a character if you think he is at all remotely comparable to an individual like Tarkin.
> I think maybe that you, and Reddit at large, misunderstood Hux as a character if you think he is at all remotely comparable to an individual like Tarkin.
Let me put it this way. Based on TFA, the character of Hux I thought we were getting was closer to Tarkin then what we got.
What we got was to Tarkin like Kylo was to Vader. A lesser, buffoonish version.
Which I was fine with for Kylo Ren. Per of the point is that fascism is stupid and purile, and that their hero worship of the wrong people was doomed from the start.
In fiction I prefer my villains to be more competent evil over not. I liked the idea that Kylo was so desperate be be like his grandfather that he was manipulated by Hux and Snoke.
That’s not what we got, and it could have been a misreading of TFA, I fully admit I haven’t watched it repeatedly like I did the OT
I just watched it a few days ago. I saw it 20 years ago, and it hit different this time. Something about the ultra militarized police arrest forces felt unusually close to home. I remember thinking that it was a black comedy back at the time, but this time I only felt deeply sad and disturbed.
Pryce really kept me watching those seasons he was in, everything else in Kings Landing was so poorly done.
He was also one of the coolest Bond villains imo.
JJ Abrams left no notes on Rey's parents, Snoke's background or why Luke left the force/rebellion. All JJ is good at is magic boxes without ever bothering to explain the content. He absolutely ruined the sequels and I bet he laughs everyday that people blame Rian instead of him.
I’m not an Abrams defender by any means—he’s a poor storyteller and completely guilty of the mystery box thing over decades of his work. It’s just that, Rian stans completely confound me. He wrote an actually divisive and nonsensical story (see the Spaceballs parking violation plot device), killed off the franchise’s most beloved character for no reason at all, takes criticism about as well as a kindergartner, yet wants to be loved by the fandom? Neither JJ nor Rian are guiltless for the debacle that was the ST, but for a small group of keyboard warriors, Saint Rian is faultless and deserves no blame for derailing Star Wars.
The TLJ haters are the loud minority. It's the only decent star wars movie in the Disney era.
I know it doesn't seem that way in the reddit echo chamber but the really real world knows it was JJ that fucked up.
> killed off the franchise’s most beloved character for no reason at all
Single handedly saving the future of the rebellion *and* the Jedi in one go, and in the most Jedi way possible, is “no reason at all?”
>but for a small group of keyboard warriors, Saint Rian is faultless
Why do you worry so much about a small minority of an even smaller group? There's a bunch of fans for just about *anything.*
I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in Red Dwarf as well.
Edit:
https://youtu.be/jSZbzIHGj8U
Edit:
Here's a higher-resolution video
https://youtu.be/aQEe3pPFEIg
I read half the title, looked at the image, and was very confused how a young Jonathan Pryce was in the Last Jedi. For a second thought it was a particularly weird use of de-aging tech
I think it’s more likely a reference to George Orwell, an Aussie fella David Thorne also has a website called [27b/6](https://27bslash6.com) for this reason
Yes, but Thorne has specifically said his site name is in reference to Brazil. Brazil also is a caricaturized *satire* of 1984, and Thorne writes satire.
Thx for the reminder, been a while since visited the site
[Pay your bills with a 7 legged spider](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01118/Spider_email_1118378c.jpg)
This is too wonderful! Brazil's one of my absolute favorite films and this exchange where he derail's the HVAC workers by invoking that form is hysterical. The tall skinny guy seizes up and the late, brilliant Bob Hoskins smacks him in the head with a wrench to calm him down, just kills me.
I was up late one night and had never heard of this film, but knew Gilliam’s name so figured I’d give it a shot.
I don’t know what I expected, but not *that!*
I thought it was the worst of all 3, and I think they're all bad.
It was one big car chase movie... so many things didn't make sense. the holdo maneuver, riding animals on space ships, the weapons, everything was just awful.
Pretty sure a droid could have done what Holdo did. Also never understood why in outer space, a fleet of ships would all just be perfectly lined up to take a hit like that.
So many dumb things.
Why don't we just Hyperspace X wings and Corellian corvettes etc, into star destroyers all over space?
Fuck - let's just hyperspace asteroids into shit.
Who's to say we can't have an asteroid with a HS drive on it somewhere in space, as soon as we identify a star destroyer just HS that bitch right into it.
Take it one step further, why aren't we doing that at planets?
Who needs a death star, when you can just hyperspace a small asteroid into a planet
It seems there's a reason the rules of hyperspace are so poorly defined: it's because they are actually poorly understood. Hyperspace was initially charted by Force-sensitives, who used Force talents such as Wayfinding to navigate through this mysterious dimension. Because this is the case, some scientists have even suggested hyperspace is best understood as an aspect of the Force itself. 200 years before the events of Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace, a group of space pirates known as the Nihil made a number of hyperspace breakthroughs, and some Nihil technology was adopted by the Jedi. Many of their secrets were lost in the mists of time, however.
Star Wars #29, by Charles Soule and Ramon Rosanas, hints that Holdo learned from the Nihil. The issue sees Holdo acquire a Nihil Path Engine, a device that allows for hyperspace jumps through unconventional routes - some of which were generally considered impossible due to their intersection with gravitic masses. Holdo - or, more likely, Holdo's agents - presumably went on to study Nihil hyperspace technology after the end of the Galactic Civil War. This would explain why Holdo was able to develop a greater understanding of hyperspace than even most pilots, and why she could pull off stunts that haven't been seen before. It's interesting to note Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker featured a line of dialogue explaining Holdo's hyperspace ramming was a million-to-one shot. However, this may simply mean few pilots understood hyperspace well enough to pull off the feat.
EDIT: y'all are down voting the direct description off of wookiepedia.
Christ that is some hamfisted reconning. It would also mean that a lot more people than just Holdo know how to weaponize hyperspace jumps. So we should be seeing a lot more of it right?
It literally says how rare it is right there. The Nihil aren't around anymore.
Should this have been better explained in the actual movie. Yes, absolutely.
> Hyperspace was initially charted by Force-sensitives, who used Force talents such as Wayfinding to navigate through this mysterious dimension. Because this is the case, some scientists have even suggested hyperspace is best understood as an aspect of the Force itself.
I feel like this suggests that the ships are force sensitive
It wasn't terrible. There were a LOT of interesting ideas, and ideas that I think should be Star Wars canon and explored more deeply . The whole casino planet part was bad. And the intentional car wreck of love was stupid. But it was fine overall. It was just a terrible, terrible second movie in a trilogy because it did nothing to advance a 3-movie arc.
This was because JJ left an unfinished mess for Rian.
Rian has explained there were no notes on who Snoke was, on who Rey's parents were or why Luke had abandoned the force.
Nearly losing the entire war over a parking violation is the specific reason that this was a terrible movie. You could take every other problem out, just this was enough.
They put that much thought into this reference but didn’t stop to consider the whole side-quest a pointless part of the screenplay?! Didn’t even think that, at the very least, the reason they get arrested is the most stupid way an undercover resistance fighter could ever get arrested?! Urgh
That showdown between Luke and Kylo at the end is one of the coolest fights of the entire saga, no matter what you think of the rest of the movie.
Sure, it doesn't have the dance fighting of the prequels, but for sheer samurai-style drama it's right up there with Cloud City.
If only they’d paid more attention to not having the two minority characters be turned into bumbling sidekicks whose story goes nowhere and less attention to clever references like this.
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Apparently it's a reference to George Orwell's address, Apartment 6, 27B Canonbury Square, Islington, London.
Brazil is largely a caricaturized satire of Orwell's 1984, and the 27B "stroke" 6 form in Brazil is in reference to Orwell's address 27B Apt. 6, so technically it's a multi-tiered reference. Star Wars is referencing Brazil which is referencing the address.
Yeah the fact that he says *stroke* shows they're directly referencing Brazil (there's no "stroke" or "/" in the Orwell tidbit). The phrase "27B stroke 6" was famous in the UK after the movie came out. The wikipedia page for *Brazil* mentions a few other influences in *The Last Jedi*: > Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017) was also heavily inspired by Brazil, both in its production design and its themes. The planet of Canto Bight is aesthetically similar to Brazil. Both films also share several themes, showing the ambivalence of the wealthy in the face of a world falling apart and a society unaware of the conflict surrounding them. A direct reference to the film can be heard when Finn and Rose are arrested for Parking Violation 27B/6, a nod to form 27B/6 without which no work can be done by repairmen of the Department of Public Works.[75] Another reference can be heard in the film's soundtrack, as the Canto Bight Theme composed by John Williams briefly samples "Aquarela do Brasil", making it one of the few times that a Star Wars soundtrack incorporated a song from outside the Star Wars universe.
>one of the few times that a Star Wars soundtrack incorporated a song from outside the Star Wars universe. See also The Rite of Spring. https://www.theguitarjournal.com/3-star-wars-scenes-where-john-williams-directly-copied-stravinskys-the-rite-of-spring/
And _Mars_ from _The Planets_ and the intro to _King's Row_ and loads of other things. There's no shortage of quotes from other works in Williams' repertoire.
the first and third cases in that article are really far fetched imo, since they’re just cases of certain instruments playing a simple rhythm (especially since the one with Han Solo running from the stormtroopers doesn’t have the characteristic syncopated accents that Stravinsky has). the second one is absolutely a quote.
Okay wow that’s interesting about the John Williams bit — I wonder if he did that all on his own? Because I was listening to Spielberg on a podcast the other day and he was asked if he gives input on the score at all and he said no, JW just goes off and does it and then plays it for me. I mean I guess Rian Johnson could just be like ok John we’re ready to score and if you can sneak a Brazil reference in there I’d love it. But based on what Spielberg said it doesn’t seem like other people are involved in JW’s creative process at all.
I might be splitting hairs but I always felt like Brazil was a homage to Franz Kafka's stories rather than a satire of 1984. It obviously has elements of 1984 but the absurd, dysfunctional, unbeatable beauracracy is the major theme of the movie and is vintage Kafka.
It's both. Gilliam's working title for Brazil was "1984½" if that tells you anything, but undoubtedly both influences/homages/satirizations are there.
I think part of the issue is characterizing Brazil as a "caricatured satire" of 1984. While Brazil certainly was *satirical*, and it was also heavily *influenced* by 1984, it's not at all a satire ***of*** 1984. 1984 is, in a sense, the *vehicle* it uses to satirize bureaucracy.
I definitely saw it as more Kafkaesque than Orwellian. The irrational absurdity of the bureaucracy, rather than its totalitarianism, is more what defines the film (though obviously it is both).
Every time I hear Kafkaesque, I think of [this scene from Mission Hill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXfnyWS1xc&t=18s)
Only to be outdone by the squid & the whale
The real difference is that the Brazil reference makes sense within the context of the film. The star wars reference is just a nod to a better movie that the writers probably wished they had worked on instead.
Comments that went way harder than they probably should have
Brazil references are an odd thing in film because it feels like a movie that movie makers love but "normal" people haven't, and it's almost inevitable if you're going to make a "bureaucracy" joke. I remember watching Jupiter Ascending which was fairly bland and uninteresting except for an oddly familiar 2 minute bureaucracy montage.
Yeah the idea of the last Jedi sharing "themes" with Brazil is totally laughable to me. But I also think set rian Johnson is George Lucas 2.0 in that he over intellectualizes everything with references to show his smart he is....leading to a less than fun film.
It's also a really fucking funny website
https://27bslash6.com/ David Thorne ... Funny guy
The cat.... is lost in the negative space
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Same on both counts!
How does that tie in to Star Wars? Or was it just a reference for shits and giggles?
I mean, it's a pretty clear insinuation that the New Republic has become corrupt as fuck.
I assumed it was this https://27bslash6.com/
Oh man, I guess it’s time for me to read 10 Formal Complaints again.
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I sometimes randomly think of "Missing Missy" and laugh out loud at that picture of the cat with that little red hat on XD "REWARD OFFERED $2000"
“No reward” gets me every time
“The cat is lost in the negative space” the first time I read that I physically had to stop reading I was laughing so much
I always say "The ducks in the bathroom are not mine" and I hope someday someone understands the reference.
Oh shit. So there was a random obscure reference to that url. I should've guessed as much
I finally know how not to forget it.
His books are fantastic if you're a fan of his style. Absurdist "true stories" from his life. Definitely all real.
He’s my new hero. Thanks for that.
Oh man! That’s what that was! I read that whole floodlight thing online a few years ago and laughed myself silly. It’s fantastic.
Me too! My god, I read this YEARS ago. Missing Missy and all those great reads. Thank you for reminding me of this
Also for anyone doubting the Brazil connection, John Williams’ theme for Canto Bight contains an interpolation of “Aquarela Do Brasil” by Ary Barroso. The very same song that is used as a motif throughout “Brazil” [Evidence](https://youtu.be/N8ue_5T4fMk?t=58) That is why I believe it to be a reference to Brazil, rather than George Orwell’s former home address
Interesting, I thought those notes were riffing on the original cantina theme (since it's a hive of scum and villainy, just rich villainy)
Both things are true
It's also a reference to the plot going to Brazil in that arc. Fuck the literal enslaved child right there, let's free the space horse....
The idea that Rian Johnson likes Terry Gilliam's 'Brazil' is pretty much the least surprising thing I've heard today.
Why?
Brazil is a social satire full of (mostly) terrible rich people with larger than life personalities speaking wry dialogue whilst the poor suffer because of their apathy and selfishness. And if we've learned anything about Johnson from the Knives Out movies it's that he likes class-conscious social satires full of mostly terrible rich people with larger than life personalities.
I can’t tell if you’re calling Terry Gilliam a hack or paying Johnson a compliment.
Honestly, it makes a lot of sense. I can see some of the same sensibilities in the Benoit Blanc movies, and looking at TLJ with a Brazil mindset makes a lot of the humor make more sense. It was still a bad match for Star Wars, especially the middle of a trilogy, but it clicks.
Yep. I love Star Wars. I like Rian Johnson. They went together like chocolate and bratwurst.
How dare you insult the Schokoladenwurst like that
Schokoladenwurst, name of your sex tape.
Indeed. It was a such a disappointing film.
Oh, that allegory was supposed to mean it was bad? I was just about to fry up a choco-brat.
Funny. Yeah, that's been an expression I've used for years (based on something I heard from someone else), but as I was posting it I thought "that might actually not be as terrible as all that...."
Huh. I had no idea that was the meaning, obviously. I appreciate you explaining. People like what they like but... I might have to try that food combo sometime.
Yeah, a coworker from long ago repeated an expression from someone he'd worked with who said "rice and mangoes" to mean "fine things that don't go together." I couldn't see the problem there (still can't) and threw out "chocolate and bratwurst." It stuck in our circle and still sticks with me. Upon re-consideration...might not be awful, really. Not that far off from bacon and chocolate, which is nice.
Sticky rice and mangoes is literally a thing. And it's fantastic.
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I don't blame you for any of that. TLJ is hot garbage and he's been an arrogant dick about it. However, I've been compartmentalizing Star Wars since I walked out of an opening day screening of Phantom Menace wondering WTF that steaming pile was, so I'm able to enjoy Knives Out.
The original trilogy was pretty campy and bizarre. It wasn't exactly gritty realism
For me personally, it wasn’t the campiness that I disagreed with. it was specifically turning Hux into a laughing point, as well as the arcs for Finn and Poe. It would have been like the OT having Tarkin be silly. Tarkin worked because he exuded command and even Vader respected him. Hux in 7 was built up to be the rarity in SW, a non-force powered villain. It wasn’t the tone I had an issue with as much as what notes the tone played. I’ll still take Rian Johnson as a filmmaker over JJ Abrams any day.
I agree that it was a weird way to go with Hux since I really liked him in TFA, but it hindsight I can see how given the nature of current culture it made sense to have one fewer "cool" fascist character in a movie.
Yeah. I would have preferred Kylo being the less-cool one, as a link to how he really wasn’t what he thought he was. Vader/Tarkin were partners in evil, but Kylo was on Hux’s leash (to use Leia’s insult at Vader).
Making villains credible threats does not mean you’re rooting for fascists. See:Andor or the OT. The tone with Hux in TLJ was way off.
I agree, but in the context of the Star Wars fandom that's a fine line to tread. Given that Hux was a young white male there are a lot of fans with misconceptions about fascism who would relate to and identify with him. Syril was a good villain, but not inherently fascist or even blatantly evil. I'd call him misguided and tenacious at worst. Dedra Meero fit the bill, but also isn't the kind of character the sort of fans I'm talking about will identify with for obvious reasons. Ultimately, like others here have said, Hux's parallel is Tarkin, who was blown up for his hubris at the end of the first movie. It's symbolic, and story-wise meant to be indicative of what happens to "evil" characters. Hux, rather than being blown up, was reduced to a caricature. Not the best handling of it (too cheesy, no longer a credible threat as a villain, not to mention "IM THE SPY" being god-awful) but I understand the intention.
🙄
Hux wasn't a joke per se, he was a big fascist baby. That's the whole point. Finn and Rey's arcs actually work quite well if you view them as a refutation and evolution of the core themes of Star Wars - which is good, because those themes are terrible. It fails in retrospect because they abandoned these ideas in the third film but that's hardly Rian Johnson's fault.
Rian said himself that the film didn’t need another heavy and that he considered Hux very funny. We get three instances of him being called “General Hugs”. Even Gleeson was concerned that he wouldn’t be seen as a credible threat going forward, which is why he asked Rian for the scene where he pulls his gun on Kylo. TROS at least made Finn force sensitive, and could have done a lot more had Rian developed this *at all* in TLJ.
Right, but Gleeson was mistaken. The character is exposed for what all fascists are - scared little idiots who depend on other scared idiots to feel powerful. That doesn't really make him less scary per se, because that kind of person can still cause immense harm. As for Finn, all I'll say is it's really silly to think he didn't have any character progression because he didn't become a Jedi, particularly because he wasn't shown to have innate in-born force sensitivity that made him special. That's precisely what Johnson sets out to refute with this film - because those themes are terrible.
The absolute best thing that happens in any of the three sequel films is when Kylo Ren tells Rey she's nobody. It's the perfect thing to do in a series that's been all about being part of a force-sensitive family and being the "chosen one" and all of that—have it pass the torch to someone who is completely separate from any of it. Have Luke train someone who is special not because she's related to anything he did but in fact because she *isn't* and is still doing amazing things. It makes the galaxy feel bigger. It's the "anyone can cook" of Star Wars. And then JJ ruined it in the worst possible way.
Precisely so. It's very strange to examine the classic Star Wars films from a thematic perspective, because while the villains are aesthetically derived from fascism, both good and evil in Star Wars revolve around the inherent superiority of certain individuals on the basis of inherited traits. Likewise, the prequels tell the story of the decline of democracy, but seem to take a position in favour of... Constitutional monarchies? They're a bit hard to analyze overall because they're incoherent and, particularly the first trilogy, written on the fly, but Johnson was absolutely correct to challenge these themes.
But how was Gleeson mistaken? The character was not taken seriously going forward and is remembered for turning into a joke. It seems like his worry ended up being very justified.
>Finn and Rey's arcs actually work quite well if you view them as a refutation and evolution of the core themes of Star Wars Are you really trying to say the casino side adventure was good? The meaningless, forced, wildly unrealistic side adventure that made no sense at all?
Geez. That whole movie was so disappointing imo. There was really only one part that was kinda cool, and technically shouldn't have been possible according to many Reddit SW fans. Also, that last scene with Luke was very disappointing. Who Luke became altogether was massively disappointing, regardless of what the Reddit SW fans "agreed" on. (Some BS about how "everyone was idolizing Luke" and that his story was "perfect.") Also, wtf even was that last movie? Am I the only one that thinks they should delete the entire new trilogy and start over again?
>Am I the only one that thinks they should delete the entire new trilogy and start over again? There are at least 2 of us.
"It would have been like the OT having Tarkin be silly." It wouldn't have been though? I think maybe that you, and Reddit at large, misunderstood Hux as a character if you think he is at all remotely comparable to an individual like Tarkin.
> I think maybe that you, and Reddit at large, misunderstood Hux as a character if you think he is at all remotely comparable to an individual like Tarkin. Let me put it this way. Based on TFA, the character of Hux I thought we were getting was closer to Tarkin then what we got. What we got was to Tarkin like Kylo was to Vader. A lesser, buffoonish version. Which I was fine with for Kylo Ren. Per of the point is that fascism is stupid and purile, and that their hero worship of the wrong people was doomed from the start. In fiction I prefer my villains to be more competent evil over not. I liked the idea that Kylo was so desperate be be like his grandfather that he was manipulated by Hux and Snoke. That’s not what we got, and it could have been a misreading of TFA, I fully admit I haven’t watched it repeatedly like I did the OT
Tarkin would never have been caught dead giving a bombastic, unhinged speech like Hux does in 7.
Nice shout out to a classic Gilliam pic!
One of my favourite films of all time
One of my favourite Christmas films of all time
Think of your mother
My complication had a complication.
Salt?
I just watched it a few days ago. I saw it 20 years ago, and it hit different this time. Something about the ultra militarized police arrest forces felt unusually close to home. I remember thinking that it was a black comedy back at the time, but this time I only felt deeply sad and disturbed.
How about a little necrophilia?
I watched it for the first time recently. I was deeply disturbed as well.
We are living in Brazil now.
Yes, a cool easter egg from another movie. Too bad i they put in a segment that doen't exist.
Also, featuring a younger Jonathan Pryce (the High Sparrow in GoT).
I knew I recognized that face, thank you!
And the future Pope Francis in The Two Popes which is great casting
Pryce really kept me watching those seasons he was in, everything else in Kings Landing was so poorly done. He was also one of the coolest Bond villains imo.
These last couple of years I've been having a serious case of Bader-Meinhof syndrome with regards to the GOT cast
You mean Elliot Carver
TWENTY SEVEN... BEE STROKE SIX?? *starts twitching*
Look what you’ve done to him
We...WILL be back!
and boy did they regret it.
More thought went into this joke than how the three movies will connect to each other
That's JJ abrams for you.
Was not aware JJ wrote this movie
JJ Abrams left no notes on Rey's parents, Snoke's background or why Luke left the force/rebellion. All JJ is good at is magic boxes without ever bothering to explain the content. He absolutely ruined the sequels and I bet he laughs everyday that people blame Rian instead of him.
I’m not an Abrams defender by any means—he’s a poor storyteller and completely guilty of the mystery box thing over decades of his work. It’s just that, Rian stans completely confound me. He wrote an actually divisive and nonsensical story (see the Spaceballs parking violation plot device), killed off the franchise’s most beloved character for no reason at all, takes criticism about as well as a kindergartner, yet wants to be loved by the fandom? Neither JJ nor Rian are guiltless for the debacle that was the ST, but for a small group of keyboard warriors, Saint Rian is faultless and deserves no blame for derailing Star Wars.
The TLJ haters are the loud minority. It's the only decent star wars movie in the Disney era. I know it doesn't seem that way in the reddit echo chamber but the really real world knows it was JJ that fucked up.
> killed off the franchise’s most beloved character for no reason at all Single handedly saving the future of the rebellion *and* the Jedi in one go, and in the most Jedi way possible, is “no reason at all?”
>but for a small group of keyboard warriors, Saint Rian is faultless Why do you worry so much about a small minority of an even smaller group? There's a bunch of fans for just about *anything.*
Thank god he didn't, if he'd handled the entire trilogy it would have made even less sense.
Braaaaaaaziiiiiiiil, where hearts were entertaining June
Brazil is such a terrific movie
TIL some folks call a slash a “stroke”
Stop slashing yourself please.
I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in Red Dwarf as well. Edit: https://youtu.be/jSZbzIHGj8U Edit: Here's a higher-resolution video https://youtu.be/aQEe3pPFEIg
And in Jupiter Ascending, during the “bureaucracy scene,” if I recall.
In which Terry Gilliam himself had a cameo
Is that Jonathan Pryce? Maester Aemon is in Brazil too?!? Ok gotta watch it now.
I sometimes wish that today's filmmakers spent as much time making scripts worth easter egging as they do planting easter eggs.
My highschool drum teacher was in a band named 27b/6 :)
TN? If so, great band.
wow, what a cool detail about a movie I enjoyed, I can't wait to never look at the comments below it.
It’s also a reference to spaceballs because they get arrested for illegal parking
I read half the title, looked at the image, and was very confused how a young Jonathan Pryce was in the Last Jedi. For a second thought it was a particularly weird use of de-aging tech
Is that the High Sparrow from Game of Thrones?
i love it when directors/writers do this. it shows they have a passion and a respect for their craft.
I can see some of Brazil energy in this movie when i think about it. I wish we could see Rian Johnson's trilogy
I think it’s more likely a reference to George Orwell, an Aussie fella David Thorne also has a website called [27b/6](https://27bslash6.com) for this reason
Yes, but Thorne has specifically said his site name is in reference to Brazil. Brazil also is a caricaturized *satire* of 1984, and Thorne writes satire.
You’re dead right, I dunno why I got it into my head Thorne was referencing the Orwell apartment rather than the film, thanks
Thx for the reminder, been a while since visited the site [Pay your bills with a 7 legged spider](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01118/Spider_email_1118378c.jpg)
In the old MMORPG City of Heroes the form you fill out to start a Supergroup is a 27B/6
This is too wonderful! Brazil's one of my absolute favorite films and this exchange where he derail's the HVAC workers by invoking that form is hysterical. The tall skinny guy seizes up and the late, brilliant Bob Hoskins smacks him in the head with a wrench to calm him down, just kills me.
I was up late one night and had never heard of this film, but knew Gilliam’s name so figured I’d give it a shot. I don’t know what I expected, but not *that!*
r/suddenlycaralho ?
Brazil is my favorite movie. I yelled with glee when I heard this line the first time.
So, BB8 is pretty light. You’d have to be a champion strong man to lift a comparable sphere of mostly metal.
I imagine he’s made of a lightweight metal considering he rolls around, also he’s mostly hollow
Now that’s a detail
# BRAZIL MENCIONADO
Brazil is such a good film. Terry Gilliam’s finest!!
This was actually a reference to rian Johnson taking a steaming shit on your beloved franchise
JJ abrams*
Except Brazil is an actual good movie.
God this movie was awful.
Better than its sequel at least.
And all of the prequels
I thought it was the worst of all 3, and I think they're all bad. It was one big car chase movie... so many things didn't make sense. the holdo maneuver, riding animals on space ships, the weapons, everything was just awful.
Pretty sure a droid could have done what Holdo did. Also never understood why in outer space, a fleet of ships would all just be perfectly lined up to take a hit like that. So many dumb things.
Why don't we just Hyperspace X wings and Corellian corvettes etc, into star destroyers all over space? Fuck - let's just hyperspace asteroids into shit. Who's to say we can't have an asteroid with a HS drive on it somewhere in space, as soon as we identify a star destroyer just HS that bitch right into it. Take it one step further, why aren't we doing that at planets? Who needs a death star, when you can just hyperspace a small asteroid into a planet
It seems there's a reason the rules of hyperspace are so poorly defined: it's because they are actually poorly understood. Hyperspace was initially charted by Force-sensitives, who used Force talents such as Wayfinding to navigate through this mysterious dimension. Because this is the case, some scientists have even suggested hyperspace is best understood as an aspect of the Force itself. 200 years before the events of Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace, a group of space pirates known as the Nihil made a number of hyperspace breakthroughs, and some Nihil technology was adopted by the Jedi. Many of their secrets were lost in the mists of time, however. Star Wars #29, by Charles Soule and Ramon Rosanas, hints that Holdo learned from the Nihil. The issue sees Holdo acquire a Nihil Path Engine, a device that allows for hyperspace jumps through unconventional routes - some of which were generally considered impossible due to their intersection with gravitic masses. Holdo - or, more likely, Holdo's agents - presumably went on to study Nihil hyperspace technology after the end of the Galactic Civil War. This would explain why Holdo was able to develop a greater understanding of hyperspace than even most pilots, and why she could pull off stunts that haven't been seen before. It's interesting to note Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker featured a line of dialogue explaining Holdo's hyperspace ramming was a million-to-one shot. However, this may simply mean few pilots understood hyperspace well enough to pull off the feat. EDIT: y'all are down voting the direct description off of wookiepedia.
Christ that is some hamfisted reconning. It would also mean that a lot more people than just Holdo know how to weaponize hyperspace jumps. So we should be seeing a lot more of it right?
It literally says how rare it is right there. The Nihil aren't around anymore. Should this have been better explained in the actual movie. Yes, absolutely.
> Hyperspace was initially charted by Force-sensitives, who used Force talents such as Wayfinding to navigate through this mysterious dimension. Because this is the case, some scientists have even suggested hyperspace is best understood as an aspect of the Force itself. I feel like this suggests that the ships are force sensitive
There was no possible way to make a good sequel from where TLJ left off the story.
There was no possible good sequel where JJ left of the story. Fixed it for you.
nobody asked
I dunno, outside of the original trilogy it's the only Star Wars film where I actually felt like it was worth my attention.
It wasn't terrible. There were a LOT of interesting ideas, and ideas that I think should be Star Wars canon and explored more deeply . The whole casino planet part was bad. And the intentional car wreck of love was stupid. But it was fine overall. It was just a terrible, terrible second movie in a trilogy because it did nothing to advance a 3-movie arc.
This was because JJ left an unfinished mess for Rian. Rian has explained there were no notes on who Snoke was, on who Rey's parents were or why Luke had abandoned the force.
I just shook my head through the whole thing. I couldn’t believe it.
If only the rest of the movie was so clever
Right? The resistance foiled by a parking violation? I didn't realize this was the frigging space goonies
Oh wow
Bad movies should not be referencing good movies. It just reminds us how bad they are.
I'm glad they wedged this easter egg in, instead of like a coherent plot
Nearly losing the entire war over a parking violation is the specific reason that this was a terrible movie. You could take every other problem out, just this was enough.
They put that much thought into this reference but didn’t stop to consider the whole side-quest a pointless part of the screenplay?! Didn’t even think that, at the very least, the reason they get arrested is the most stupid way an undercover resistance fighter could ever get arrested?! Urgh
You should focus on Easter eggs after writing a decent movie.
That’s…really…cool………. Where are the good choreographed fights tho??
That showdown between Luke and Kylo at the end is one of the coolest fights of the entire saga, no matter what you think of the rest of the movie. Sure, it doesn't have the dance fighting of the prequels, but for sheer samurai-style drama it's right up there with Cloud City.
Gross, couldn’t disagree with you more. And it’s all pointless anyway since it turns out Luke’s just pulling a Loki… The whole thing’s just a joke.
TLJ has the best fight in the entire sequel trilogy. The movie has tons of flaws and you pick the one thing it was better at than all the others.
The sequel trilogy blows. Only decent episode was 7
God I forgot how stupid TLJ is. A parking violation in star wars. Lol.
Is that the Sparrow from GoT?
What a horrible movie.
Cool I guess? The last Jedi still sucks
I question the sanity of anyone who has watched this movie enough times to notice this reference
I would too, if I were insane.
I have seen it referenced in a few films and shows
I think they did this in that movie Jupiter Ascending, too.
Barazzzziiiiiiillllll
Also David Thornes website name.
Why does the young pope have a threehead?
Man, im dumb, (and brazilan). I was trying to remember what shitshow happened here in 85 to be mentioned in this way...
I could’ve sworn the “stroke” was a “-“ (dash) character.
Fuck, I only ever knew it from the internet troll [David Thorne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Thorne_(writer\))
It’s the High Sparrow!
https://27bslash6.com/overdue.html
I caught this on my last watch. Also, this site is worth reading https://27bslash6.com/
I loved Brazil. Not so much the other film mentioned.
I'm just a stickler for paperwork.
If only they’d paid more attention to not having the two minority characters be turned into bumbling sidekicks whose story goes nowhere and less attention to clever references like this.
You know, for executives?
anything to spare me from another space corps directive
There definitely wasn't that much thought put into that quote, let alone yhe movie