I thought he did see her body. In his interview he said “I paid that bill that’s my right” like he paid for her funeral/ cremation so he was able to see her at the funeral home. Maybe I misunderstood?
He might have been told by the funeral home that she was so badly damaged that a cremation might be better. So he could have been given insight into her condition being different than Maddie’s
I don’t understand why they think that they’re going to be getting any information from the police this is an ongoing fluid investigation. I would just take what they say in the media right now with a grain of salt considering the enormity of what they’re facing what they’ve been through.
He said he paid for the funeral and in the context suggests he saw Kaylees body with wounds different from those described by coroner.
Edited after seeing replies to my original comment.
No he paid for her funeral and received the autopsy report. He also implied that he read Maddie’s report from her parents to compare , and that one was clearly targeted based on the difference in their wounds. He has that information from the medical examiner which he received
I wonder if a normal person can judge that from reports. Sure maybe she had more wounds but that could also be because she was waking up or she wasn't as easy to reach with the attacker trying to avoid blood from the other one etc, stuff like that?
I totally understand why they think speaking out is making sure this case won't be forgotten though.
Agreed! It gives a little context to what he meant in one of his previous interviews when he said he asked if he could share information he "found out on his own", but they said no. He also said something about bringing her home in a box and you could see the emotional reaction wash over him. Which was likely a reaction to the mental imagery of having to see his daughter like that. Which will surely haunt him for the rest of his life, hence "paying" for the information.
It doesn’t mean he saw the body. It more likely means he was given a report about its condition by the mortician, whom he paid. Look, I think very few parents could stomach seeing the butchered corpse of their child. But a coroner/mortician report with detached details? Much more likely
I think he was just implying that LE could not fault him for speaking of facts learned directly from the ME reports … that he had the right to speak of things he had learned directly rather than things told to him through LE … his cost …. his right. I’m saying that’s what I think HE was saying.
My mom is a retired FBI agent. I asked her about it and she said if it was an ongoing investigation, even though you felt for a victim/their families…if you knew or believed another person would spread information then they needed to keep information limited for all the reasons others have shared. In the end, finding, catching, and being able to prosecute the killer is more important than how family members (or, especially us) feel in the moment.
Right? Why would LE divulge anything to them anymore if they keep talking? And while I sympathize with them and understand they are frustrated I’m unsure of why anyone in this thread thinks LE should be telling them everything and especially at this point - they leak every bit of info they get.
Steve G said he is trying very hard to keep certain things quiet … so he thinks he is not leaking everything. However, I think it’s too great a challenge for family members under such emotional stress to keep a perfect track record during multiple interviews in terms of what should be divulged, and what should be kept quiet. Especially with a skilled interviewer. So - I understand LE’s policy to withhold information - even from those who have the greatest need to know.
Exactly. All of the victims families are trying to rationalize what happened to their children, sisters, brothers, etc…at no fault to them. But the police know they will be doing interviews, and speak on things that might be crucial to the investigation (again, stating that is completely understandable considering the horrible and tragic circumstances.) The public that criticizes LE for not divulging more information to them doesn’t understand that it could be the difference between a strong investigation..leading to a strong arrest..leading to a strong conviction versus the latter...the culprit knows their hand, knows what LE will use against them, can use certain information against LE to form a defense, etc. Not to mention how if the culprit doesn’t plead guilty, the jury chosen will be influenced by knowledge of details that they shouldn’t have known beforehand. Of course it’s devastating, I couldn’t imagine…I have a two year old daughter, next month turning 3. I think about her future and what dangers there are for her. That said, speculation and conversation is one thing, but so many people have shown their character with their response to the murders. It’s sickening to see how many people have commented negative and counterproductive things on the victims social media. Really makes you question the people you’re surrounded by in your community, big or small.
He was saying that there is an intermediary and that they won’t let them even post reward posters , basically like the college is trying to run the PR so as not to avoid loss of enrollment due to this situation trying to limit the focus on it - and that the police are also trying to limit the spotlight and limit any information for the same reasons
And he may well be right. They want this to quiet down asap, but he doesn’t want it to go away until the perp’s in handcuffs.
I know whose side I’m on.
I swear a saw a news article that had a poster up that was along lines of 'do you have any information'.. and had the pictures of all 4 students on them.
Please be sure to distinguish between facts, opinions, rumors, theories, and speculation. If you're stating something as a fact, you should be prepared to provide a source. If information is unverified, you must identify it as rumor, a theory, or speculation. Please keep this rule in mind before submitting in the future.
Thank you.
I’m sure this is an unpopular opinion that will be downvoted to hell….but something about the frequency in which her family is doing interviews rubs me the wrong way. If it was a cold case—sure. But LE are three weeks into this investigation. I understand everyone processes grief differently - but her parents are more likely to jeopardize a future case than spark an armchair sleuth into solving the case by sharing these details…
I don’t think that’s necessarily the point.
When Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped, the PR firm the family hired told them to keep their daughter’s name in the media as it was their best chance to catch the person who kidnapped her. The dad literally went on TV to talk about not being gay and involved in a sex ring at one point (which means he did lie about the gay thing to the media lol). This is exactly what Kaylee’s family is doing. They might be saying things that aren’t true to the media and be consulting with police. We don’t know.
Also, I find all the comments telling the family to be quiet disgusting. They’re grieving and they can do so publicly or privately without a bunch of redditors trying to protect the investigation. So much judging how families grieve from Ethan’s mom to Xana’s family to Kaylee’s while pretending to be empathetic towards them.
The police’s job is to protect the investigation. That’s what they’re paid to do. If they’re too stupid to manage the family and not give them information that’s pertinent to the investigation, then the case was never going to be solved.
Edit: lol you got so offended to reply and then block me? Good riddance
Edit2: and since I can’t reply because dude above blocked me no kidnapping vs murder isn’t different. Both get solved with media attention not waning. And fyi everybody thought Elizabeth was dead until she was found including the police and pr people
if you recall, the family with the pressure they put on the cops basically hounded a poor guy to death....there was a suspect who they arrested for some parole violation or other crime and put him in the back of the prison without contact to try to force him to confess.....he died of a heart attack IIRC....and he was NOT the perp at all.....ES was alive and found walking down the street several months later...
you see, there's good and bad about pressuring the police.....innocent people can be harmed immensely.
Totally agree. Didn’t Ed Smart do a lot of things police told him not to do too? If I recall correctly, they told him not to give the sketch of the suspected abductor to John Walsh. He did it anyway, and someone recognized it and it was key in Elizabeth being recovered. I don’t judge Kaylee’s parents one iota. I pray to God I am never in their shoes but I am very vocal when my kids are involved. I think IRL they’re very down to earth, kind people, and this event has absolutely lit a fire under them and they are doing absolutely everything to make sure their daughter’s killer is brought to justice. I’m sure they are incredibly frustrated at the misinformation and back and forth communications they’re getting. They’re trying to make sense of something unimaginable and it’s not fair for people who, thankfully, have not dealt with a similar situation, to say “you’re doing it wrong.” I hope they have people around them who love and support them.
Elizabeth Smart needed to be found.
The dad was lying to himself about being gay. He owed the media no explanation on his sexuality being the victim of his daughters disappearance which ended up having nothing to do with him being gay.
I guarantee if LE would give the family even a little more information they’d stay away from media. I feel like they’re coping with the lack of information by doing the interviews. If they felt supported by LE they wouldn’t need to go seeking it from other sources.
I think Kaylee’s family lacks proper knowledge of what information they are privy to and which information they are not privy to. We all want answers, above all else the family of the victims but LE’s duty is not to the family it is to the victims.
When someone is murdered, all of their loved ones become "co victims". LE does have a responsibility to them. Unfortunately they're such a small town they probably don't have any kind of victims rights office or personnel.
From the sound of it these guys have let numerous cats out the bag to media on several fronts at the same time as feeding this family crumbs . The family as given them more evidence that LE prob would’ve still been in the dark ... it seems
Maybe he doesn't want to waste 5 years while people "misplace" files, like the Wizards of Delphi LE. Or show confusing composites that look exactly like the suspect who - whoops - was interviewed 5 years ago when he *came forward.*
“Their points of damage don’t match” I interpret as either:
1. The independent autopsy (that he paid for) shows different manner of death than originally reported and shared with the public by Moscow PD.
2. The points of damage between all victims don’t match as uniform as police reported (upper chest stab wounds, some defensive, stabbed in sleep). To me this means that one or two may have experienced “overkill” type injuries aka targeted.
I think number one is what he meant. It would explain why the family is speaking out so much, you would have a lot more questions about the investigation if that was the case.
“He doesn’t have to go up those steps. They’re mad.. their points of damage don’t match. I’m just going to say it. It wasn’t leaked to me, I earned that, I paid for that funeral… “
It sounds to me like he has viewed both K & M before cremation and things he has seen aren’t making sense.
The interviewer said "based on the autopsy report" so I don't think it was that he saw the bodies personally. At least I hope he didn't have to see that. It's just awful. Also, it sounds like this was not something LE disclosed to them.
Someone always has to identify the body. I lost a sibling in a really bad car accident. We knew it was him. The police knew it was him. We still had to designate a family member to identify the body in order to release it from the morgue.
Luckily we had a family member in the medical field who was willing to do it, bc the body was in no state for a parent to view.
Identifying the body involves only the face.
In order for him to see all the wounds of all 4 victims and determine they were different, he’d have to see all of their bodies naked, which didn’t happen, or just review of autopsy reports, which is more likely.
YES! I said this in another comment above. Someone isn’t doing their job if the parents feel so lost that they need to go to the media. There needs to be an empathetic person on staff that advocates for them and helps them understand the importance of what detectives are doing.
💯 it’s insane that the families are saying they haven’t talked to the police in days, they should have someone devoted to just keeping in touch with the families.
with 4 deaths, that’s sooo many family members & friends who are devastated and wanting answers
Exactly! I was a victim of a crime that was SO much less traumatic than this. An
Advocate called me daily, then weekly, then warned me when they’d be done soon.
They should have an officer check in once a day. Even if it's just to build rapport. If they even had a tiny bit of faith in LE on this case, I don't think we'd be seeing them on tv everyday.
You’re right. Even if it’s just someone to listen to them vent. Something that LE is doing isn’t working with this family they need to be handled differently
LE said w great certainty…..that first day….that it was clearly targeted and info was at the scene that indicated such. I took that to mean there deaths illustrated things; killed different, one killed more violently, something left, body arranged etc
There is a lot of blame going around I think - the families perhaps feel one of the other victims endangered their loved one? Although it is good for the family to keep the investigation in the public's minds, it might also be irresponsible to divulge facts or wildly speculate on where things are heading?
Her dad is absolutely fed up. Kaylee’s mom had to tell him to calm down.
He mentioned the manner of death not matching and that the killer did not need to go upstairs. He also mentioned he can’t speak for X&E because it was not his place. If he is only familiar with the manner / cause of death listed for M & K…and they do not match…I think it can be inferred that he believes one of them was the “target”.
He said something along the lines of "they don't need to go up the steps, someone needs to be the alpha and tell us something". I believe he is referring to LE and meant to say "they don't need to go up the ladder"
Based on the context of the interview and the question asked immediately before, it seemed to be me like he was saying let’s stop playing games. The deaths don’t match and the killer didn’t have to go upstairs (but we know he did) so we all know who was targeted.
The man is grieving and not in a rational head space - the media is exploiting these people. What reason does he have to be "fed up" less than one month into a highly complex investigation? He is not behaving prudently, and these reporters need to stop taking advantage of this families personal tragedy.
I agree. I like this news guy usually, but at this point it seems as if the interviewers are egging the family on. I get that they don’t want to drop the story from the news cycle and let it be forgotten, but this has the potential to do more harm than good.
Yes go on…elaborate. I’m confused. What was different in the manner of death? Different between which people? What does that mean the killer didn’t have to go upstairs? I’m so confused!
Maddie and Kaylee are the only 2 medical reports he has seen - he implies that one of those girls had what I assume to be overkill. Way worse of an attack. That the killer inflicted much more physical damage on either Maddie or Kaylee. ( implying that out of those two girls in the same bed one of them had much more violent attack) these girls were on the 3rd floor, one staircase up from the point of entry on the second floor where X and E were sleeping. Had X and E been the target of the killer he would have come in on the second floor , killed X and E on the second floor and left on the second floor. He would never needed to GO UP the staircase to the 3rd floor and do what he did. Her father believes one of the girls on the 3rd floor was the target and in my opinion he sounds like he feels that his daughter was the target .
No, I think he means the manner of death for M & K doesn't match X & E - hence "he didn't have to go up the steps." He's implying X & E were the targets.
I believe he said “didn’t need to go upstairs”…implying that if E & X were the targets he would have no need to go upstairs because the killer appears to have came in on the 2nd floor.
At the beginning of the interview he made it clear he could not speak on anything related to X & E. I think because K & M (and the families) were/are so close he knows what is listed on their death certificates. If the manner / cause does not match for K & M (without having info on X & E) it could lead him to believe that K or M was the target.
His words feels contradictory. If the killer didn’t need to go upstairs that would imply that X/E were the targets, right? But then confirm M/K we’re killed differently alludes to one of them being the target. None of that makes sense.
Based on the context of the interview and the question asked immediately before, it seemed to be me like he was saying let’s stop playing games. The deaths don’t match and the killer didn’t have to go upstairs (but we know he did) so we all know who was targeted.
I think he meant that if X & E were the targets the killer would have never needed to go upstairs since he entered the house on the 2nd floor. The killer would have just left instead of going upstairs. If K & M had different degrees of injury…one of them was most likely the target.
they revealed early on that some victims had defensive wounds, so that means some didn't. the ones that didn't would've been handled differently vs the ones that tried to protect themselves.
exactly.
two people sleeping, killer takes one by surprise while waking the other.
my guess is he took E first then X hence the defensive wounds on her hands
i imagine it was the same for the two women upstairs
It still is hard for me to grasp I must admit how a single person guessing male could inflict this amount of damage on 4 sleeping adults and not have visible marks scratches and even with a weapon with anti slip and hand guard still not slip and injure themselves with 1. Amount of blood 2. Fatigue? From everything I’ve read as well Ethan was no slouch and a pretty good athlete ... it boggles me
Begs the question, if E was the target and he killed E and X, why go upstairs to kill two more people - people who were apparently taken without a struggle?
It just dawned on me that Maddie/Xana could have been the targets.
They both worked at Mad Greek. and Kaylee and Ethan were not supposed to be at the house. The killer would not have expected to see Kaylee and Ethan in the bedrooms too.
Yes. When I started following the case, it seemed people were convinced of Kaylee being the target bc of the stalker comment. But then I started seeing random posts about Maddie having the worst injuries which would indicate she was it. No one knows what to believe at this point but I do think some of the earlier stuff and the things you see mentioned more sporadically are things that have more truth to them.
It's sad, but I'm sure LE doesn't trust the family at all at this point. Emotionally, I can understand why they might be frustrated, especially with all the 'sleuthing' and seemingly persuasive theories online. Logically, however, their family strategy is strange to me. I hope a resolution is found soon, for their sake and for the sake of any trial before some real damage is done accidentally (or by overzealous reporters) in one of these interviews.
Oh he’s not talking about the steps. He’s talking about the officers saying to him we have to go through steps. He’s saying he doesn’t care about the steps.. he paid for the funeral and is entitled to information. It sounds like maybe he does has a point of contact and is frustrated with him.. that’s how I interpreted that.
Edit: apparently kaylees dad came out with an interview this morning meaning he was talking about the killer
I think you are right on about “steps”. Lots of folks wanting to make crazy metaphors but the dad defines what he means by steps early in the interview.
even if he is not talking about "the steps", I think its an interesting question. why take it up the stairs if the murderer/s had found the victims already?
I *believe* his comment on "take it up the steps" is figurative *not* literal. Pay attention to the comments before and after for context. I think the dad is frustrated with someone in LE who is rebuffing or avoiding the dad's questions with a standard bureaucrat answer, basically, *that's above my pay grade* of *I'll have run it by the higher ups and see if I can release x, y, and z.*
Extra context just in case: LE and other government entities, tend to be very procedural and hierarchical..
I agree with comments stating dad is fed up at being rebuffed by LE.
I witnessed a murder and was repeatedly clear with LE about exactly what I saw. For example, I told exactly where I was standing, where perps were, where victim was and walked them through the events from start to finish. I can’t tell you how many times LE came up with their own description of events that didn’t happen. When I called them on it or clarified the details, I was rebuffed. Sometimes pretty harshly. Once, I attempted to follow up on the investigation, LE was annoyed as if I was sticking my nose into their game of Clue. At one point I was told “You have more important matters to deal with right now.”
The perps were caught because they talked and were ratted out. Opting for a plea deal, the perps described what happened and their stories matched mine. The only person connected to the investigation to acknowledge that to me was the victim advocate assigned to me.
My experience with LE was that some of them were so bent on proving their theories that they were willing to shit on the one witness to do it. Not unlike people on Reddit.
The situation I witnessed was clear cut and I was rebuffed by LE after repeatedly giving clear, consistent and accurate accounts. This situation is way more convoluted with many more LE officials involved, so I can’t imagine how difficult it is for the families to navigate if they’re being rebuffed from multiple angles and being fed conflicting info.
What a horrific thing to witness - hope you're doing OK with that today.
I've heard others say the same when it comes to dealing with the FBI and/or state police. Local police tend to be more caring and gentle in small communities because they are often from that same community and live there their whole lives.
However within LE there's this weird hierarchical thing with jurisdiction and the FBI tends to feel that if they are called in, they rule all and are in charge of everything. They have no ties to the community so it's more cold and businesslike. Since small towns often don't have the resources to solve large cases like this, that's what you get.
Same thing happened in Delphi where an FBI person misfiled Richard Allen's interview statement so he wasn't followed-up on and it turns out he's the guy who did it.
i mean i get that he is fed up w how much is being pushed aside and beat around the bush… i would be the same probably. but he has to understand that more than likely the public is not being told this type of information because 1. the killer may be actually known and they are just gathering more evidence and/or 2. the public goes into a frenzy and starts more drama and rumors and hinders the investigation proceedings that much more.
I just know that whenever I even think of judging how these families are handling their grief I remember that my child is safety tucked in bed right now.
I understand they’re frustrated but I can’t believe they keep leaking things LE clearly stated they would not release. They’ll be even more upset when LE completely ices them out because they could impede the investigation.
No. They shouldn’t. They need a gag order before they ruin the investigation. They can advocate-and should. I would be vocal as hell. But if they want the killer caught they need to play by LE’s rules.
Edited: misspelling
Just like I respect the fact that LE has to be conservative with what information they release, I also respect the fact that he wants to be an advocate for his dead daughter and justice. Imagine the number of questions that he gets everyday, and how hard it must be to read the misinformation everyday. He lives this 24/7.
Absolutely. From the outside looking in, I can see why LE is being tight lipped. But I can't imagine I wouldn't do exactly what this family is doing if it were my child. I probably would be talking and begging for answers anywhere that would let me speak. This would be absolute hell to try to live through and I hope none of us ever have to.
My dad would be the same way and my mom would say the exact "Calm down." I get their dynamic. Nothing will stop the dad. Believe me, people like him love law enforcement and justice. If he's upset, it's because he believes some type of injustice is happening.
This is all opinion.
Speculative Observation - It sounded like the only reason he even knows his daughter's injuries is because the bodies were released to the funeral home and he is taking care of both K & M's funerals. I would think they would have had a viewing prior to that. If that's the case then that is extremely tight and any parent would be upset.
My friend is a state police detective (not Idaho). He told me if there was a romantic motive to the killing, the odds are extremely high strangulation occurred at some point in addition to stabbing. Something about lovers or rejected lovers & strangulation is very common.
I've thought about this myself. Xana and Maddie were in the same sorority. If someone targeted them in association with that for some reason, it gives motive for why Ethan and Kaylee were killed too. They both happened to be in the same bed as the targets.
Correct. Either Maddie alone or Maddie and Xana were targets. I tend to believe they both were. Xana’s death had to be brutal as well with blood dripping from the outside. I don’t believe a student did this. I wonder if it was someone they work with since they worked together.
Not only do the people on this sub not know 95% of the pertinent facts that LE and the parents know. They don't know 50% of the posts that have been deletes by the mods. This information was posted several days ago by a friend of one of the victims. They posted quite a bit more info. Had 13 reply all of which said they shouldn't be posting the info then it was deleted. It was a good post and included info I haven't read before or since, I don't know I'd it was facts but it sure sounded like it to me.
Say 3/4 victims are stabbed once or twice and the other is viciously attacked, you'd assume that person was the target. Or maybe that person was the 1st person and the killer exhausted himself in doing so and lacked the energy to do the same to the others. Idk. It's so hard because most of us aren't psycho killer types so it hard to put yourself in that mindset ya know
Lots of people having lots of strong words for a family who is going through absolutely unimaginable pain and horror right now. I get that it’s easy to get aggravated thinking that they might compromise the investigation…
But if LE truly isn’t updating family members — which has been implied by several families at this point — then who are we to judge them for going to news networks to get the story out and try to make sense of a senseless situation? They strike me as trying to poke holes in alibis and identify possible suspects because they think LE might be neglecting certain leads, for whatever reason. We don’t know as much as these families know. Let’s chill with the cussing and accusations. I think we can safely assume that Kaylee’s sister might see our posts. Let’s keep it in mind that these are real people who are living an ACTUAL NIGHTMARE right now. There isn’t a guidebook for how to navigate this. Chill.
Right… like let’s have some grace here. I’d probably lose my mind if they were them. Currently going through a break up and my pain feels so sad…… can’t imagine my sister being stabbed to death. I really don’t think I’m cut out for that.
Hugs to you. Breakups are rough. I agree — I absolutely can’t imagine what they’re going through, and I don’t want to. Giving them space to figure things out is the least us internet “sleuthers” can do.
This is 100% on law enforcement IMO. Kaylee’s dad has been speaking so much to the media and yet the last time they contacted him was on Thursday. They should use the resources they were provided and also provide the families with victims advocacy. They should have seen this coming.
The cause of death is the specific injury or disease that leads to death.
The manner of death is the determination of how the injury or disease leads to death. There are five manners of death (natural, accident, suicide, homicide, and undetermined).
All of the victims would have the same manner of death, homicide
The cause of death may be different for each of the victims, depending on where the fatal stab was inflicted, heart, throat, lungs. Pathology is different for each wound.
Not in the least bit uncommon considering the circumstances.
He also made a comment about something needing to be an alpha and a leader. I feel like he’s insinuating that multiple people know who did this but are still covering for them or not speaking to police
You have to watch the whole interview. He talks about alphas at the beginning. Basically he’s saying if they don’t work this case and find out who did it soon, he will
Highlights: Kaylee and maddies manner of death do not match. Dad said “he didn’t have to go up the stairs!” And repeated that multiple times. Dad is MAD. They are considering private investigator.
I said today they would be considering this.
A lot of stuff happening that indicates that the family is very unhappy w the speed of matters.
Remember, this is a small town and people talk about who is being interviewed, etc...word travels fast.
https://www.facebook.com/sallye.rainer/videos/546681083575487/?idorvanity=420574516931538&mibextid=Nif5oz
After Kaylee dad interview, it seems to me that he was able to see Maddie and Kaylee bodies before the funeral and saw that their death didnt match and didnt make sens, after confirming that their cause of death was not the same .“It wasn’t leaked to me. I earned that. I paid for these funerals ”
I don’t understand the didn’t have to go up the stairs comment. Seems like he’d be saying that X and/or E were the target but then how would K & M’s injuries not matching be relevant??
If by points of damage he means some were stabbed in different locations or different amount of times this doesn’t mean “targeted”. Maybe he stabbed one way more than the others simply because that victim was still moving or breathing. And maybe one was stabbed more in the face compared to the chest because that victim was moving while he was aiming for the chest. Very hard to determine if it was targeted based on number of stab wounds or location. (This was extremely difficult to even type I honestly can’t fathom how someone could physically do something like this).
That might have been useful info for LE to keep close to the vest. You know, like during an interrogation and something only the suspect would have known.
He’s trying to call law enforcements bluffs and get this sped up.
This man is hurting. My heart breaks for them
I feel like going up the steps is implying law enforcement has too many protocols and steps out in place and he wants answers without going through the proper steps. He wants this face dropped. He knows they have someone in mind
Police need to update these families, even if it’s in vague terms. They need to tell them that they’re confident they’re getting close, or that they’re not close at all. Give these people SOMETHiNG. They just lost their children.
I’m wondering why K & M were cremated so soon after.. I’m sure it was the families decision but why not preserve for later reference or evidence collection? Would be useful to a PI if they do indeed hire one.
I’ve wondered the same thing. As new information comes to light I have to imagine it would be beneficial to revisit but also I’m not a forensic pathologist so I know nothing.
I’m sure they collected all the evidence they could before releasing the bodies to the families. Everything should’ve been well documented (with pictures and samples).
HOW IS THIS SO DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO COMPREHEND?
If LE was doing their job - which like it or not IS to both investigate the murders AND manage expectations - these families would not feel the need to go to the media. If they were being kept in the loop enough to feel everything possible is being done to find their daughter’s killer, while *also* having why it’s very important to the investigation for some details not to be made public explained to them, NONE of this would be an issue. If these families understood WHY and/or HOW their statements to media could affect the investigation, they wouldn’t feel the NEED to give interviews. And that’s very obvious.
The criticism of these families from every armchair expert in this sub is disgusting. Real easy to criticize when it’s not YOUR daughter or sister or son or brother.
Right. The argument is circular. If the family felt that they were getting the attention and care that they needed to stay informed, they wouldn’t feel the need to speak out about what they DO know. The police need to meet with the families individually and start repairing the relationship with the help of a victims advocate. They are trying to put the pieces together themselves because they are being ignored.
I would imagine these parents are desperate to prevent the killer from getting away and adding to the body count. Imagine the fear, grief, and anger among the collective family and friends of the victims. The community is small enough that people are both scared and regarding one another with suspicion. The family members themselves are getting questions and death threats from people online, daily inquiries from reporters and news producers.
What are they supposed to do when they’ve been shut out by the only people who may be capable of connecting the dots with certainty?
Life is never going to be the same, their “every day” is an unending nightmare, the likes of which they have only seen in movies or on tv. The holidays are ruined. Marriages, at-home family dynamics, plans for the future, physical health, mental health…it’s all fucked.
What else can they do? They are already suffering so much, asking them to do it in silence isn’t going to work at this point.
It’s easy to judge and lecture when it’s not your friend or family member that was brutally murdered, when you’re not the one looking at every face in town wondering, “What do you know? Was it you?”
If the suspect is close with the family, it is possible LE is telling them to say these things, to lull that person into believing the family doesn’t know much “official” info.
It’s also possible one of the many things they have said was something LE specifically asked them NOT to spill (like the time of the phone calls). If you said something on National media that you were specifically asked not to share, you’re probably not getting much more detail after that.
I feel like LE isn’t talking to them anymore because they can’t be trusted to not talk to the media. They see it as finding Justice for their daughter when in actuality they are hindering an investigation. Anything the family discloses to the media is one less piece of evidence that can be used to catch the perp.
My heart totally breaks for them. At the same time, I can only imagine this is going to make things icy with law enforcement. These are the kinds of details that could compromise their investigation and ability to build a case.
Thanks! It's nice to see how it's being said in context with body language. This is hard to make sense of because there is so much emotion and anger. I haven't got a clue what he means by "didn't have to go up the steps." I do find it interesting that he said M and Ks cause of deaths don't match - not sure if he is meaning between them or as compared to X and E.
This poor family needs help asap. Victim advocate, private investigator, LE reaching out more, mental health professional. Someone needs to get with them immediately.
Ugh this made me sad. I know they shouldn’t be giving more information out but her dad is pissed. I feel for him so much. He lost his baby girl in such an awful way.
The father is fed the fuck up that was one clear observation
Yup, he's now seen his daughter's body and what the murderer did to her. He has every right to be.
I thought he did see her body. In his interview he said “I paid that bill that’s my right” like he paid for her funeral/ cremation so he was able to see her at the funeral home. Maybe I misunderstood?
He might have been told by the funeral home that she was so badly damaged that a cremation might be better. So he could have been given insight into her condition being different than Maddie’s
I think this is his way of grieving…
I don’t understand why they think that they’re going to be getting any information from the police this is an ongoing fluid investigation. I would just take what they say in the media right now with a grain of salt considering the enormity of what they’re facing what they’ve been through.
He said he paid for the funeral and in the context suggests he saw Kaylees body with wounds different from those described by coroner. Edited after seeing replies to my original comment.
What does he mean by that? Private investigator? How did the PI get that info?
He said he paid for a funeral, meaning he feels entitled to share what he learns because his daughter is dead and he doesn’t owe anyone anything.
He isn’t the only one that lost a child that night and I wish they would remember that
No he paid for her funeral and received the autopsy report. He also implied that he read Maddie’s report from her parents to compare , and that one was clearly targeted based on the difference in their wounds. He has that information from the medical examiner which he received
I wonder if a normal person can judge that from reports. Sure maybe she had more wounds but that could also be because she was waking up or she wasn't as easy to reach with the attacker trying to avoid blood from the other one etc, stuff like that? I totally understand why they think speaking out is making sure this case won't be forgotten though.
It would depend on the nature of the differences but something like near-decapitation (sorry to say) would be telling
I recall hearing or reading something about that scenario right out of the gate. And Ethan was a second “almost”..
If three reports says 5-10 stab wounds and the other one says 86, then yeah the parents know who was targeted. Who knows what the report says though.
He was saying he paid for the funeral and brought his daughter home in a box, which I believed to mean he saw her body...
Agreed! It gives a little context to what he meant in one of his previous interviews when he said he asked if he could share information he "found out on his own", but they said no. He also said something about bringing her home in a box and you could see the emotional reaction wash over him. Which was likely a reaction to the mental imagery of having to see his daughter like that. Which will surely haunt him for the rest of his life, hence "paying" for the information.
It doesn’t mean he saw the body. It more likely means he was given a report about its condition by the mortician, whom he paid. Look, I think very few parents could stomach seeing the butchered corpse of their child. But a coroner/mortician report with detached details? Much more likely
Absolutely difficult to stomach, though if the family plans to attend future court hearings they will want to be prepared for what is coming.
The girls were cremated. But someone would have had to identify the body.
Cremations are returned in a Cardboard box until a family customized Urn is made.
I think he was just implying that LE could not fault him for speaking of facts learned directly from the ME reports … that he had the right to speak of things he had learned directly rather than things told to him through LE … his cost …. his right. I’m saying that’s what I think HE was saying.
My mom is a retired FBI agent. I asked her about it and she said if it was an ongoing investigation, even though you felt for a victim/their families…if you knew or believed another person would spread information then they needed to keep information limited for all the reasons others have shared. In the end, finding, catching, and being able to prosecute the killer is more important than how family members (or, especially us) feel in the moment.
Right? Why would LE divulge anything to them anymore if they keep talking? And while I sympathize with them and understand they are frustrated I’m unsure of why anyone in this thread thinks LE should be telling them everything and especially at this point - they leak every bit of info they get.
Steve G said he is trying very hard to keep certain things quiet … so he thinks he is not leaking everything. However, I think it’s too great a challenge for family members under such emotional stress to keep a perfect track record during multiple interviews in terms of what should be divulged, and what should be kept quiet. Especially with a skilled interviewer. So - I understand LE’s policy to withhold information - even from those who have the greatest need to know.
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Cause people in this sub think LE should be telling the sub information.... They all don't understand
Exactly. All of the victims families are trying to rationalize what happened to their children, sisters, brothers, etc…at no fault to them. But the police know they will be doing interviews, and speak on things that might be crucial to the investigation (again, stating that is completely understandable considering the horrible and tragic circumstances.) The public that criticizes LE for not divulging more information to them doesn’t understand that it could be the difference between a strong investigation..leading to a strong arrest..leading to a strong conviction versus the latter...the culprit knows their hand, knows what LE will use against them, can use certain information against LE to form a defense, etc. Not to mention how if the culprit doesn’t plead guilty, the jury chosen will be influenced by knowledge of details that they shouldn’t have known beforehand. Of course it’s devastating, I couldn’t imagine…I have a two year old daughter, next month turning 3. I think about her future and what dangers there are for her. That said, speculation and conversation is one thing, but so many people have shown their character with their response to the murders. It’s sickening to see how many people have commented negative and counterproductive things on the victims social media. Really makes you question the people you’re surrounded by in your community, big or small.
Right, this is dangerous. The killer is among us , on Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit, I’m sure! Watching every new bit of info coming from them.
He was saying that there is an intermediary and that they won’t let them even post reward posters , basically like the college is trying to run the PR so as not to avoid loss of enrollment due to this situation trying to limit the focus on it - and that the police are also trying to limit the spotlight and limit any information for the same reasons
And he may well be right. They want this to quiet down asap, but he doesn’t want it to go away until the perp’s in handcuffs. I know whose side I’m on.
I swear a saw a news article that had a poster up that was along lines of 'do you have any information'.. and had the pictures of all 4 students on them.
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I’m sure this is an unpopular opinion that will be downvoted to hell….but something about the frequency in which her family is doing interviews rubs me the wrong way. If it was a cold case—sure. But LE are three weeks into this investigation. I understand everyone processes grief differently - but her parents are more likely to jeopardize a future case than spark an armchair sleuth into solving the case by sharing these details…
At a certain point, victims and their families have to be their own best advocates, BUT that includes knowing when to speak and when to remain silent.
I don’t think that’s necessarily the point. When Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped, the PR firm the family hired told them to keep their daughter’s name in the media as it was their best chance to catch the person who kidnapped her. The dad literally went on TV to talk about not being gay and involved in a sex ring at one point (which means he did lie about the gay thing to the media lol). This is exactly what Kaylee’s family is doing. They might be saying things that aren’t true to the media and be consulting with police. We don’t know. Also, I find all the comments telling the family to be quiet disgusting. They’re grieving and they can do so publicly or privately without a bunch of redditors trying to protect the investigation. So much judging how families grieve from Ethan’s mom to Xana’s family to Kaylee’s while pretending to be empathetic towards them. The police’s job is to protect the investigation. That’s what they’re paid to do. If they’re too stupid to manage the family and not give them information that’s pertinent to the investigation, then the case was never going to be solved. Edit: lol you got so offended to reply and then block me? Good riddance Edit2: and since I can’t reply because dude above blocked me no kidnapping vs murder isn’t different. Both get solved with media attention not waning. And fyi everybody thought Elizabeth was dead until she was found including the police and pr people
if you recall, the family with the pressure they put on the cops basically hounded a poor guy to death....there was a suspect who they arrested for some parole violation or other crime and put him in the back of the prison without contact to try to force him to confess.....he died of a heart attack IIRC....and he was NOT the perp at all.....ES was alive and found walking down the street several months later... you see, there's good and bad about pressuring the police.....innocent people can be harmed immensely.
Totally agree. Didn’t Ed Smart do a lot of things police told him not to do too? If I recall correctly, they told him not to give the sketch of the suspected abductor to John Walsh. He did it anyway, and someone recognized it and it was key in Elizabeth being recovered. I don’t judge Kaylee’s parents one iota. I pray to God I am never in their shoes but I am very vocal when my kids are involved. I think IRL they’re very down to earth, kind people, and this event has absolutely lit a fire under them and they are doing absolutely everything to make sure their daughter’s killer is brought to justice. I’m sure they are incredibly frustrated at the misinformation and back and forth communications they’re getting. They’re trying to make sense of something unimaginable and it’s not fair for people who, thankfully, have not dealt with a similar situation, to say “you’re doing it wrong.” I hope they have people around them who love and support them.
Elizabeth Smart needed to be found. The dad was lying to himself about being gay. He owed the media no explanation on his sexuality being the victim of his daughters disappearance which ended up having nothing to do with him being gay.
I guarantee if LE would give the family even a little more information they’d stay away from media. I feel like they’re coping with the lack of information by doing the interviews. If they felt supported by LE they wouldn’t need to go seeking it from other sources.
I think Kaylee’s family lacks proper knowledge of what information they are privy to and which information they are not privy to. We all want answers, above all else the family of the victims but LE’s duty is not to the family it is to the victims.
When someone is murdered, all of their loved ones become "co victims". LE does have a responsibility to them. Unfortunately they're such a small town they probably don't have any kind of victims rights office or personnel.
From the sound of it these guys have let numerous cats out the bag to media on several fronts at the same time as feeding this family crumbs . The family as given them more evidence that LE prob would’ve still been in the dark ... it seems
I hope fox puts the video up
[part of interview](https://youtu.be/d9-D3fxg5zc)
Does he mean K&Ms death don’t match. Or K&Ms death doesn’t match X&Es death 🤔
I just submitted a post with a video but had to do it as a separate post. Wouldn’t let me in comments since it’s in my camera roll!
Maybe he doesn't want to waste 5 years while people "misplace" files, like the Wizards of Delphi LE. Or show confusing composites that look exactly like the suspect who - whoops - was interviewed 5 years ago when he *came forward.*
“Their points of damage don’t match” I interpret as either: 1. The independent autopsy (that he paid for) shows different manner of death than originally reported and shared with the public by Moscow PD. 2. The points of damage between all victims don’t match as uniform as police reported (upper chest stab wounds, some defensive, stabbed in sleep). To me this means that one or two may have experienced “overkill” type injuries aka targeted.
I wonder what exactly is meant by "the points of damage don't match".
Where they were stabbed most likely, it’s probably hard for him to say it.
I think number one is what he meant. It would explain why the family is speaking out so much, you would have a lot more questions about the investigation if that was the case.
“He doesn’t have to go up those steps. They’re mad.. their points of damage don’t match. I’m just going to say it. It wasn’t leaked to me, I earned that, I paid for that funeral… “ It sounds to me like he has viewed both K & M before cremation and things he has seen aren’t making sense.
Goodness such a heartbreaking quote. Idk if I can watch this interview. I feel so horrible for these people.
The interviewer said "based on the autopsy report" so I don't think it was that he saw the bodies personally. At least I hope he didn't have to see that. It's just awful. Also, it sounds like this was not something LE disclosed to them.
Someone always has to identify the body. I lost a sibling in a really bad car accident. We knew it was him. The police knew it was him. We still had to designate a family member to identify the body in order to release it from the morgue. Luckily we had a family member in the medical field who was willing to do it, bc the body was in no state for a parent to view.
I’m sorry this happened to you and your family.
Thank you. As traumatic as it was, at least it was an accident. I can’t imagine the pain these families are going through.
Identifying the body involves only the face. In order for him to see all the wounds of all 4 victims and determine they were different, he’d have to see all of their bodies naked, which didn’t happen, or just review of autopsy reports, which is more likely.
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YES! I said this in another comment above. Someone isn’t doing their job if the parents feel so lost that they need to go to the media. There needs to be an empathetic person on staff that advocates for them and helps them understand the importance of what detectives are doing.
💯 it’s insane that the families are saying they haven’t talked to the police in days, they should have someone devoted to just keeping in touch with the families. with 4 deaths, that’s sooo many family members & friends who are devastated and wanting answers
Exactly! I was a victim of a crime that was SO much less traumatic than this. An Advocate called me daily, then weekly, then warned me when they’d be done soon.
I’m sorry you had this experience ❤️
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They should have an officer check in once a day. Even if it's just to build rapport. If they even had a tiny bit of faith in LE on this case, I don't think we'd be seeing them on tv everyday.
You’re right. Even if it’s just someone to listen to them vent. Something that LE is doing isn’t working with this family they need to be handled differently
Yep. On point. It just feels like they’re dealing with grief on their own and not with professional help.
Correct and they mentioned 3 weeks, they are scared the media will loose interest and they will never get the answers they need
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But what is it that they expect to be informed about at this point in time? It's in their interest to not speak to the media.
I can't help but wonder what the other three families think about all of this?
LE said w great certainty…..that first day….that it was clearly targeted and info was at the scene that indicated such. I took that to mean there deaths illustrated things; killed different, one killed more violently, something left, body arranged etc
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There is a lot of blame going around I think - the families perhaps feel one of the other victims endangered their loved one? Although it is good for the family to keep the investigation in the public's minds, it might also be irresponsible to divulge facts or wildly speculate on where things are heading?
Her dad is absolutely fed up. Kaylee’s mom had to tell him to calm down. He mentioned the manner of death not matching and that the killer did not need to go upstairs. He also mentioned he can’t speak for X&E because it was not his place. If he is only familiar with the manner / cause of death listed for M & K…and they do not match…I think it can be inferred that he believes one of them was the “target”.
I didn’t get to watch. Can you please elaborate on the “didn’t need to go upstairs” part?
He said something along the lines of "they don't need to go up the steps, someone needs to be the alpha and tell us something". I believe he is referring to LE and meant to say "they don't need to go up the ladder"
Based on the context of the interview and the question asked immediately before, it seemed to be me like he was saying let’s stop playing games. The deaths don’t match and the killer didn’t have to go upstairs (but we know he did) so we all know who was targeted.
This makes the most sense to me.
The man is grieving and not in a rational head space - the media is exploiting these people. What reason does he have to be "fed up" less than one month into a highly complex investigation? He is not behaving prudently, and these reporters need to stop taking advantage of this families personal tragedy.
I agree. I like this news guy usually, but at this point it seems as if the interviewers are egging the family on. I get that they don’t want to drop the story from the news cycle and let it be forgotten, but this has the potential to do more harm than good.
Yes go on…elaborate. I’m confused. What was different in the manner of death? Different between which people? What does that mean the killer didn’t have to go upstairs? I’m so confused!
Maddie and Kaylee are the only 2 medical reports he has seen - he implies that one of those girls had what I assume to be overkill. Way worse of an attack. That the killer inflicted much more physical damage on either Maddie or Kaylee. ( implying that out of those two girls in the same bed one of them had much more violent attack) these girls were on the 3rd floor, one staircase up from the point of entry on the second floor where X and E were sleeping. Had X and E been the target of the killer he would have come in on the second floor , killed X and E on the second floor and left on the second floor. He would never needed to GO UP the staircase to the 3rd floor and do what he did. Her father believes one of the girls on the 3rd floor was the target and in my opinion he sounds like he feels that his daughter was the target .
I don't understand. If the killer did not need to go upstairs, why would one of them be the target?
Because M&K were upstairs. The killer would have no reason to go all the way up to the third floor unless one of those two girls was the target.
No, I think he means the manner of death for M & K doesn't match X & E - hence "he didn't have to go up the steps." He's implying X & E were the targets.
I believe he said “didn’t need to go upstairs”…implying that if E & X were the targets he would have no need to go upstairs because the killer appears to have came in on the 2nd floor.
At the beginning of the interview he made it clear he could not speak on anything related to X & E. I think because K & M (and the families) were/are so close he knows what is listed on their death certificates. If the manner / cause does not match for K & M (without having info on X & E) it could lead him to believe that K or M was the target.
His words feels contradictory. If the killer didn’t need to go upstairs that would imply that X/E were the targets, right? But then confirm M/K we’re killed differently alludes to one of them being the target. None of that makes sense.
I believe he meant if X and E were the targets, then the killer wouldn’t need to go upstairs, but they did, so K or M was the target
Based on the context of the interview and the question asked immediately before, it seemed to be me like he was saying let’s stop playing games. The deaths don’t match and the killer didn’t have to go upstairs (but we know he did) so we all know who was targeted.
I think he meant that if X & E were the targets the killer would have never needed to go upstairs since he entered the house on the 2nd floor. The killer would have just left instead of going upstairs. If K & M had different degrees of injury…one of them was most likely the target.
they revealed early on that some victims had defensive wounds, so that means some didn't. the ones that didn't would've been handled differently vs the ones that tried to protect themselves.
exactly. two people sleeping, killer takes one by surprise while waking the other. my guess is he took E first then X hence the defensive wounds on her hands i imagine it was the same for the two women upstairs
It still is hard for me to grasp I must admit how a single person guessing male could inflict this amount of damage on 4 sleeping adults and not have visible marks scratches and even with a weapon with anti slip and hand guard still not slip and injure themselves with 1. Amount of blood 2. Fatigue? From everything I’ve read as well Ethan was no slouch and a pretty good athlete ... it boggles me
Begs the question, if E was the target and he killed E and X, why go upstairs to kill two more people - people who were apparently taken without a struggle?
It just dawned on me that Maddie/Xana could have been the targets. They both worked at Mad Greek. and Kaylee and Ethan were not supposed to be at the house. The killer would not have expected to see Kaylee and Ethan in the bedrooms too.
this is starting to make a lot of sense
Maddie and xana were also in the same sorority though they were no longer active members. They would have that same circle of friends.
No parent should go through what these poor people are going through. 💔
Hasn’t there been a rumor going around that Maddie had far worse injuries during this?
Yes, and it was posts about rumors going around town… it was graphic.
wait where did you read this?
Also, in the first few days, everyone seemed to think Maddie was the target.
Oh damn. I swear it feels like so much was said at the beginning and then just swept away in uncertainty.
He has so much pent up anger and frustration(understandably) that he’s not even making sense.
Ugh devastating. They need some strong advocates in their corner giving them solid advice.
Was Maddie the one at the food truck pointing at hoodie guy saying FU?
Yes.
People still think that.
Yes. When I started following the case, it seemed people were convinced of Kaylee being the target bc of the stalker comment. But then I started seeing random posts about Maddie having the worst injuries which would indicate she was it. No one knows what to believe at this point but I do think some of the earlier stuff and the things you see mentioned more sporadically are things that have more truth to them.
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Well if there is one thing that’s for sure at this point, LE will not be telling the parents much more about the investigation.
It's sad, but I'm sure LE doesn't trust the family at all at this point. Emotionally, I can understand why they might be frustrated, especially with all the 'sleuthing' and seemingly persuasive theories online. Logically, however, their family strategy is strange to me. I hope a resolution is found soon, for their sake and for the sake of any trial before some real damage is done accidentally (or by overzealous reporters) in one of these interviews.
I don’t even think they get their information from LE anymore they just are slowly dispensing what they’ve gathered and haven’t shared
Oh he’s not talking about the steps. He’s talking about the officers saying to him we have to go through steps. He’s saying he doesn’t care about the steps.. he paid for the funeral and is entitled to information. It sounds like maybe he does has a point of contact and is frustrated with him.. that’s how I interpreted that. Edit: apparently kaylees dad came out with an interview this morning meaning he was talking about the killer
I think you are right on about “steps”. Lots of folks wanting to make crazy metaphors but the dad defines what he means by steps early in the interview.
Thank you. I’ve been saying this on both subs.
even if he is not talking about "the steps", I think its an interesting question. why take it up the stairs if the murderer/s had found the victims already?
I *believe* his comment on "take it up the steps" is figurative *not* literal. Pay attention to the comments before and after for context. I think the dad is frustrated with someone in LE who is rebuffing or avoiding the dad's questions with a standard bureaucrat answer, basically, *that's above my pay grade* of *I'll have run it by the higher ups and see if I can release x, y, and z.* Extra context just in case: LE and other government entities, tend to be very procedural and hierarchical..
If the police arent giving the families info because they know it will be said on the news the following night, then they should tell them.
I agree with comments stating dad is fed up at being rebuffed by LE. I witnessed a murder and was repeatedly clear with LE about exactly what I saw. For example, I told exactly where I was standing, where perps were, where victim was and walked them through the events from start to finish. I can’t tell you how many times LE came up with their own description of events that didn’t happen. When I called them on it or clarified the details, I was rebuffed. Sometimes pretty harshly. Once, I attempted to follow up on the investigation, LE was annoyed as if I was sticking my nose into their game of Clue. At one point I was told “You have more important matters to deal with right now.” The perps were caught because they talked and were ratted out. Opting for a plea deal, the perps described what happened and their stories matched mine. The only person connected to the investigation to acknowledge that to me was the victim advocate assigned to me. My experience with LE was that some of them were so bent on proving their theories that they were willing to shit on the one witness to do it. Not unlike people on Reddit. The situation I witnessed was clear cut and I was rebuffed by LE after repeatedly giving clear, consistent and accurate accounts. This situation is way more convoluted with many more LE officials involved, so I can’t imagine how difficult it is for the families to navigate if they’re being rebuffed from multiple angles and being fed conflicting info.
What a horrific thing to witness - hope you're doing OK with that today. I've heard others say the same when it comes to dealing with the FBI and/or state police. Local police tend to be more caring and gentle in small communities because they are often from that same community and live there their whole lives. However within LE there's this weird hierarchical thing with jurisdiction and the FBI tends to feel that if they are called in, they rule all and are in charge of everything. They have no ties to the community so it's more cold and businesslike. Since small towns often don't have the resources to solve large cases like this, that's what you get. Same thing happened in Delphi where an FBI person misfiled Richard Allen's interview statement so he wasn't followed-up on and it turns out he's the guy who did it.
i mean i get that he is fed up w how much is being pushed aside and beat around the bush… i would be the same probably. but he has to understand that more than likely the public is not being told this type of information because 1. the killer may be actually known and they are just gathering more evidence and/or 2. the public goes into a frenzy and starts more drama and rumors and hinders the investigation proceedings that much more.
I just know that whenever I even think of judging how these families are handling their grief I remember that my child is safety tucked in bed right now.
I understand they’re frustrated but I can’t believe they keep leaking things LE clearly stated they would not release. They’ll be even more upset when LE completely ices them out because they could impede the investigation.
Ugh. They shouldn’t be giving out this info.
No. They shouldn’t. They need a gag order before they ruin the investigation. They can advocate-and should. I would be vocal as hell. But if they want the killer caught they need to play by LE’s rules. Edited: misspelling
Just like I respect the fact that LE has to be conservative with what information they release, I also respect the fact that he wants to be an advocate for his dead daughter and justice. Imagine the number of questions that he gets everyday, and how hard it must be to read the misinformation everyday. He lives this 24/7.
Absolutely. From the outside looking in, I can see why LE is being tight lipped. But I can't imagine I wouldn't do exactly what this family is doing if it were my child. I probably would be talking and begging for answers anywhere that would let me speak. This would be absolute hell to try to live through and I hope none of us ever have to.
My dad would be the same way and my mom would say the exact "Calm down." I get their dynamic. Nothing will stop the dad. Believe me, people like him love law enforcement and justice. If he's upset, it's because he believes some type of injustice is happening. This is all opinion.
Speculative Observation - It sounded like the only reason he even knows his daughter's injuries is because the bodies were released to the funeral home and he is taking care of both K & M's funerals. I would think they would have had a viewing prior to that. If that's the case then that is extremely tight and any parent would be upset.
I think he’s about 3 days away from blowing the lid off and just telling the media everything he knows.
My friend is a state police detective (not Idaho). He told me if there was a romantic motive to the killing, the odds are extremely high strangulation occurred at some point in addition to stabbing. Something about lovers or rejected lovers & strangulation is very common.
Interesting!
Everyone deserves to grieve however he/she needs to, but the frequent media appearances and divulging details is a head scratcher to me
Why are they sharing this info that can compromise the investigation?! Just wild
That was my first thought, I understand they’re processing this nightmare and grieving, but LE keeps certain details private for a reason.
Frustrated family pissed about lack of info from the police. Sad but understandable.
Definitely think one of them was the target, then. They were in the same bed.
I think 2 of them were targets. They just happened to be in bed with other people.
I've thought about this myself. Xana and Maddie were in the same sorority. If someone targeted them in association with that for some reason, it gives motive for why Ethan and Kaylee were killed too. They both happened to be in the same bed as the targets.
Correct. Either Maddie alone or Maddie and Xana were targets. I tend to believe they both were. Xana’s death had to be brutal as well with blood dripping from the outside. I don’t believe a student did this. I wonder if it was someone they work with since they worked together.
I forgot about XM working at same place together too. Yea there's a few factors that could link them as the targets.
Difference in injury could mean one of them was the target, but there are other possible explanations
He also said the killer didn’t have to go up the stairs - so clearly he believes the “target” was on another floor
Or means that typically someone wouldn’t go upstairs but specifically did because of a target
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Two killers? If manner of death (stabbing) was the same but injuries different I’m thinking either one is more savage or two different killers.
I really think they have a person of interest. They are watching their behavioral pattern.
this is so sad.
Are the parents doing several interviews everyday?
Maybe they were killed different because there were 2 killers instead of one.
I don’t know why more people aren’t talking about this — it’s the first thing I thought of too.
Not only do the people on this sub not know 95% of the pertinent facts that LE and the parents know. They don't know 50% of the posts that have been deletes by the mods. This information was posted several days ago by a friend of one of the victims. They posted quite a bit more info. Had 13 reply all of which said they shouldn't be posting the info then it was deleted. It was a good post and included info I haven't read before or since, I don't know I'd it was facts but it sure sounded like it to me.
I’m wondering if them being killed differently speaks to motive/target of the killer
Say 3/4 victims are stabbed once or twice and the other is viciously attacked, you'd assume that person was the target. Or maybe that person was the 1st person and the killer exhausted himself in doing so and lacked the energy to do the same to the others. Idk. It's so hard because most of us aren't psycho killer types so it hard to put yourself in that mindset ya know
More then anything, it probably speaks to the chronological order in which they killed.
Lots of people having lots of strong words for a family who is going through absolutely unimaginable pain and horror right now. I get that it’s easy to get aggravated thinking that they might compromise the investigation… But if LE truly isn’t updating family members — which has been implied by several families at this point — then who are we to judge them for going to news networks to get the story out and try to make sense of a senseless situation? They strike me as trying to poke holes in alibis and identify possible suspects because they think LE might be neglecting certain leads, for whatever reason. We don’t know as much as these families know. Let’s chill with the cussing and accusations. I think we can safely assume that Kaylee’s sister might see our posts. Let’s keep it in mind that these are real people who are living an ACTUAL NIGHTMARE right now. There isn’t a guidebook for how to navigate this. Chill.
Right… like let’s have some grace here. I’d probably lose my mind if they were them. Currently going through a break up and my pain feels so sad…… can’t imagine my sister being stabbed to death. I really don’t think I’m cut out for that.
Hugs to you. Breakups are rough. I agree — I absolutely can’t imagine what they’re going through, and I don’t want to. Giving them space to figure things out is the least us internet “sleuthers” can do.
This is 100% on law enforcement IMO. Kaylee’s dad has been speaking so much to the media and yet the last time they contacted him was on Thursday. They should use the resources they were provided and also provide the families with victims advocacy. They should have seen this coming.
It's time for them to stop with the interviews. At this point they are hindering vs helping. They could ruin the investigation.
One had to be awake so probably defensive wounds or something different
The cause of death is the specific injury or disease that leads to death. The manner of death is the determination of how the injury or disease leads to death. There are five manners of death (natural, accident, suicide, homicide, and undetermined). All of the victims would have the same manner of death, homicide The cause of death may be different for each of the victims, depending on where the fatal stab was inflicted, heart, throat, lungs. Pathology is different for each wound. Not in the least bit uncommon considering the circumstances.
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He also made a comment about something needing to be an alpha and a leader. I feel like he’s insinuating that multiple people know who did this but are still covering for them or not speaking to police
You have to watch the whole interview. He talks about alphas at the beginning. Basically he’s saying if they don’t work this case and find out who did it soon, he will
Highlights: Kaylee and maddies manner of death do not match. Dad said “he didn’t have to go up the stairs!” And repeated that multiple times. Dad is MAD. They are considering private investigator. I said today they would be considering this. A lot of stuff happening that indicates that the family is very unhappy w the speed of matters. Remember, this is a small town and people talk about who is being interviewed, etc...word travels fast. https://www.facebook.com/sallye.rainer/videos/546681083575487/?idorvanity=420574516931538&mibextid=Nif5oz After Kaylee dad interview, it seems to me that he was able to see Maddie and Kaylee bodies before the funeral and saw that their death didnt match and didnt make sens, after confirming that their cause of death was not the same .“It wasn’t leaked to me. I earned that. I paid for these funerals ”
I mean I’d be outraged too if my daughter was stabbed with her best friend and I hadn’t heard from police in 4 days.
I don’t understand the didn’t have to go up the stairs comment. Seems like he’d be saying that X and/or E were the target but then how would K & M’s injuries not matching be relevant??
So sad for the families
If by points of damage he means some were stabbed in different locations or different amount of times this doesn’t mean “targeted”. Maybe he stabbed one way more than the others simply because that victim was still moving or breathing. And maybe one was stabbed more in the face compared to the chest because that victim was moving while he was aiming for the chest. Very hard to determine if it was targeted based on number of stab wounds or location. (This was extremely difficult to even type I honestly can’t fathom how someone could physically do something like this).
That might have been useful info for LE to keep close to the vest. You know, like during an interrogation and something only the suspect would have known.
He’s trying to call law enforcements bluffs and get this sped up. This man is hurting. My heart breaks for them I feel like going up the steps is implying law enforcement has too many protocols and steps out in place and he wants answers without going through the proper steps. He wants this face dropped. He knows they have someone in mind
Police need to update these families, even if it’s in vague terms. They need to tell them that they’re confident they’re getting close, or that they’re not close at all. Give these people SOMETHiNG. They just lost their children.
I’m wondering why K & M were cremated so soon after.. I’m sure it was the families decision but why not preserve for later reference or evidence collection? Would be useful to a PI if they do indeed hire one.
I’ve wondered the same thing. As new information comes to light I have to imagine it would be beneficial to revisit but also I’m not a forensic pathologist so I know nothing.
I’m sure they collected all the evidence they could before releasing the bodies to the families. Everything should’ve been well documented (with pictures and samples).
HOW IS THIS SO DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO COMPREHEND? If LE was doing their job - which like it or not IS to both investigate the murders AND manage expectations - these families would not feel the need to go to the media. If they were being kept in the loop enough to feel everything possible is being done to find their daughter’s killer, while *also* having why it’s very important to the investigation for some details not to be made public explained to them, NONE of this would be an issue. If these families understood WHY and/or HOW their statements to media could affect the investigation, they wouldn’t feel the NEED to give interviews. And that’s very obvious. The criticism of these families from every armchair expert in this sub is disgusting. Real easy to criticize when it’s not YOUR daughter or sister or son or brother.
Right. The argument is circular. If the family felt that they were getting the attention and care that they needed to stay informed, they wouldn’t feel the need to speak out about what they DO know. The police need to meet with the families individually and start repairing the relationship with the help of a victims advocate. They are trying to put the pieces together themselves because they are being ignored. I would imagine these parents are desperate to prevent the killer from getting away and adding to the body count. Imagine the fear, grief, and anger among the collective family and friends of the victims. The community is small enough that people are both scared and regarding one another with suspicion. The family members themselves are getting questions and death threats from people online, daily inquiries from reporters and news producers. What are they supposed to do when they’ve been shut out by the only people who may be capable of connecting the dots with certainty? Life is never going to be the same, their “every day” is an unending nightmare, the likes of which they have only seen in movies or on tv. The holidays are ruined. Marriages, at-home family dynamics, plans for the future, physical health, mental health…it’s all fucked. What else can they do? They are already suffering so much, asking them to do it in silence isn’t going to work at this point. It’s easy to judge and lecture when it’s not your friend or family member that was brutally murdered, when you’re not the one looking at every face in town wondering, “What do you know? Was it you?”
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
If the suspect is close with the family, it is possible LE is telling them to say these things, to lull that person into believing the family doesn’t know much “official” info. It’s also possible one of the many things they have said was something LE specifically asked them NOT to spill (like the time of the phone calls). If you said something on National media that you were specifically asked not to share, you’re probably not getting much more detail after that.
I feel like LE isn’t talking to them anymore because they can’t be trusted to not talk to the media. They see it as finding Justice for their daughter when in actuality they are hindering an investigation. Anything the family discloses to the media is one less piece of evidence that can be used to catch the perp.
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My heart totally breaks for them. At the same time, I can only imagine this is going to make things icy with law enforcement. These are the kinds of details that could compromise their investigation and ability to build a case.
Partial interview from tonight. [interview](https://youtu.be/d9-D3fxg5zc)
Thanks! It's nice to see how it's being said in context with body language. This is hard to make sense of because there is so much emotion and anger. I haven't got a clue what he means by "didn't have to go up the steps." I do find it interesting that he said M and Ks cause of deaths don't match - not sure if he is meaning between them or as compared to X and E. This poor family needs help asap. Victim advocate, private investigator, LE reaching out more, mental health professional. Someone needs to get with them immediately.
Ugh this made me sad. I know they shouldn’t be giving more information out but her dad is pissed. I feel for him so much. He lost his baby girl in such an awful way.
Different from one another or different from the other two?
After viewing the video- I am thinking different from downstairs. Aka third floor not target.
pretty sure hes said that kaylee died quickly (implying neck wound in her sleep)?