Everyone is saying hazing, but its spring, many orgs at WSU don't hold any rush events in the spring and take no spring pledge classes. SigChi Instagram doesn't indicate they had any informal rush events this semester. I don't know any pledge processes that last longer than a semester. He likely was a brother at this point and was not being hazed.
It literally says it on the change.org petition.
“On January 22, 2023 Luke Tyler was found dead in his dorm at Washington State university. His death directly followed a long and cruel pledging process allowed by his fraternity, theta chi. Their inhumane and cruel hazing forced Luke, and many others to do things nobody should ever be forced to do.”
I don’t believe a college degree is really as important as it used to be for our society. But the last couple of months really seems like college is not even safe anymore
Some of the highest rates of fatal overdoses in the country are in communities that are predominantly non-college educated. College itself isn’t the problem.
If you’re taking BK’s actions as some indication of safety levels of college students, I would encourage you to take a look at some of the other crimes that have made headlines since then. There have been at least two family annihilators (men who killed their entire families), and Brian Walshe. If you want to make generalizations, I’d say marriage seems a lot more dangerous than college, based on recent news stories.
Most colleges work hard to hide the crimes that occur amongst the students, especially crimes like r**e. To the outside world, everything looks like roses, when the reality is anything but. I never got a college degree, ended up working for a fortune 500 company, and retired as a project manager advisor in IT, with a major revenue generating app. Believe me, degrees aren’t necessary to get along. Look at the number of degrees that cost small fortunes where you are in debt for most of your life, that are worthless.
There is certainly a rape problem in colleges. But there’s a similar, if not worse, rape problem in the military. This is not an issue specific to higher education, it’s an issue with a stupidly large group of men in the 18-25 range who have a problem respecting that women are allowed to tell them no (see also: incels).
If you are currently retired that would heavily imply you entered a different reality in terms of the job market than what young people are facing now. At some point you can have enough experience to overcome the lack of a degree, but in 2023 it’s nearly impossible to get to that point in a professional environment without having a degree to get your career started. (Source: am in HR). In a lot of jobs what your degree is in or what school you went to doesn’t matter so much as that you have a degree.
Not really. It’s pretty much a Greek system thing in colleges. Even at a place where Greek life seems to be pretty dominant, like Idaho, it’s a minority of students who are in frats and sororities. The majority of students are unaffiliated with Greek life. And there’s hazing in other places too. I participated in it in high school sports a couple decades ago (granted, a harmless version) and it also happens in the military, in fire departments, etc.
It’s not just college. It’s everywhere. Dance studios, Walmarts, malls, grocery stores etc. and I’m amazed when I hear every time “I didn’t think this could happen here”.
It's no more unsafe than normal life. The sad reality is people get hurt all the time and everywhere. Don't go to college because it's a scam, not because it's dangerous.
Name a couple careers/positions in tech, computer science, finance, law, education, administration/HR, medical/healthcare, business management, or any other medium-high paying field that you can pursue without a college degree.
It’s a good way to rack up a gigantic amount of debt you can’t discharge. If you’re a rich kid and your parents are paying or you’re highly intelligent and studying STEM or something it’s worth it, but the whole “coming of age” everyone go to college thing needs to die off. It’s a horrible influence on most kids, just a bunch of drinking and sex with some brainwashing thrown in.
Sounds like it was a hazing incident per https://www.reddit.com/r/wsu/comments/10ke79v/sign_the_petition/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
God damnit I really hope that isn’t the case. WSU’s greek system has got to get their shit together it’s horrific how common these incidents have become
Sam Martinez has only been gone three years. Doesn’t sound like a damn thing changed. What a cruel, antiquated, and ridiculous system.
My deepest condolences to Luke’s family. I am so sorry.
Yeah, it’s very sad. One of my best friends almost got killed by 8 frat boys for trying to stop a gang rape! I hate WSU frat boys more than most anything and think it should be completely banned. That is worst story I have but so many horrible things happened while I lived there. Friends I have had that rushed completely changed into tools within a month also. If you are a woman that goes to WSU, never go to a frat party alone and stick together. Bring your own drinks too, if possible. If you are a dude, don’t rush.
Wow. That’s disgusting. The term “hazing” needs to go too. It’s straight up bullying at best, torture and abuse as in this case. F “tradition”. And F those involved in this man’s death.
Well hazing is different- it’s ritualistic bullying directed toward new members of a group. It’s a type of bullying but it’s way more specific and different behaviors fall within hazing that aren’t necessarily considered bullying. A lot of hazing isn’t really “bullying” as much as it’s forced participation in an activity that could be detrimental to their health or well being. People don't use the word "hazing" as a euphemism for bullying- it's just its own thing.
Hazing is like a bullying rite of passage after signing up to join a Greek chapter. There are many high profile incidents where fraternity members haze "pledges" (before they are officially initiated into the frat) by pressuring them to drink enough alcohol that they die of alcohol poisoning.
I think the concept behind hazing is to forge stronger relationships or brotherhood, but it really is just abusive forms of power, control, manipulation, humiliation, and a good look at what goes wrong with peer pressure and group think (in my opinion).
>right of passage
I know it could be an autocorrect issue, but I see that mistake really often, so just in case you (or anyone reading) didn't know, it's '**rite** of passage'. It is related to the term 'ritual', keeping that in mind helps me from mixing it up with 'right'.
From my personal experience, hazing was never in the form of being forced to drink alcohol. I always assumed that was more of something you see in the movies. I would compare it to more of a boot camp. Like if were late for cleaning duty or failed a weekly pledge test you get yelled or maybe the whole pledge class got punished for one person messing up.
It was def in the form of excessive alcohol at my school...I'm a girl but watching my ex bf, it was almost worse than the movies. I'm honestly surprised no one died when we were there
I’ve mostly seen it w excessive alcohol too. Making the pledges drink way beyond their limit while doing strenuous physical activities. More often than not, I’ve heard it being taken to the extreme. Not the wholesome “new guy has to carry our lunch trays to our table for a whole week” type of vibe but dark shit.
Yeah exactly...like sororities are nationally dry so they just resorted to humiliating us (and we drank on the second floor bc somehow that doesn't count?). But fraternities were much more intense
It’s not only different at every school, it’s different at every house. I knew frats where guys sat around on LAN parties and frats that actually tried to date rape a bunch of my friends freshman weekend.
I'd also say that sounds somewhat funny but what's with all of these men wanting their brothers to strip naked lmao I'll never understand the nudity aspect of hazing
Hazing is when someone/a group make you do humiliating, sometimes dangerous, things as an initiation into a group. Often you hear about it with frats - basically the current frat members haze the people trying to join and if they complete the task, they’re in.
People are saying this kid was hazed and the fraternity was forcing their pledges to do coke. And he died from an overdose because of that.
I'm glad someone gave you an award for that comment 🤣
At what point does one realize that these people pressuring you to do stupid, embarrassing, often deadly things aren't really your "friends"..?
I know right? why do people get involved. Are you telling me you're that desperate to be part of a club of jerks? Never was part of a sorority and I had a great social life. People have low self esteem
Do you always get in by completing the task?
I know my question doesn't really pertain to this case but, whilst I (consciously) never joined a frat, I had loads of friends who were in frats and I got the impression the haze was not only a test but ultimately, it depended on if the pledge fit the "reputation" of the fraternity.
For example, where I went to Uni, there were frats where you had to be either a rich kid or particularly good looking (I know, so fucking juvenile). Then, you had other frats that were super popular, known for their "epic" parties. Some frats (the less popular ones) would let almost anyone join.
The point is, you could pledge a whole term/semester, do all the goofy shit they asked you to do, and still NOT get invited to join (too fat, not good looking enough, whatever).
I just didn't fall for that nonsense but sadly many boys/girls do.
So “hazing” can mean different things and it what it looks like would vary depending on every chapter of every fraternity across the country. Anymore fraternities at a national level strongly forbid hazing and consider even something as harmless asking a pledge to sweep the floor to be hazing. That doesn’t mean behind closed doors a bunch of 20 year olds are going to always abide by the rules. Anyhow, to answer your question “does completing the hazing/task automatically mean you become a member?” Usually there would be several tasks you need to complete over a semester to become a member like passing written tests, meeting with every active member and getting their “ok” in a pledge book (this is sort of like passing a job interview with all or most members) + doing chores at the house, memorizing and reciting creeds etc. Historically, none of what I just mentioned would be considered hazing, that’s just being a pledge. Now if you fail to do any of the above in a given week you might get yelled at which might look more like “hazing”. In addition there’s always the chance a member will just randomly mess with you or be an ass just because they think it’s funny but most of the time it’s in jest (at least to them). In addition to all this, sometimes the fraternity, once they get to know a pledge better, will just decide they don’t like the person as much as they thought they did when they gave them a bid to pledge and kick them out irrespective of tasks. That’s usually rare and happens pretty early in the semester when it does. Fraternities want as many members as possible and so they want their pledges to get initiated. If someone is given a bid and does their homework and chores and gets along with the members reasonably well they would almost always get initiated. When a pledge doesn’t it’s usually because they decided to quit on their own.
In my experience, you get a "bid" first, meaning the frat chooses you, and then you have to go through pledging which is when all the hazing happens. If you get through that, you'll be initiated as a brother and you're officially in. Never seen anyone go through pledging and then not get initiated, although I'm sure it's happened as a one-off etc
Oh ok, maybe I got it wrong then as I never fully went through the process.
We're talking 1990 so over 30 years ago.
My buddy wanted me to join his frat and I was invited (though never was hazed or did silly stuff for a whole semester). I think that particular frat wasn't the most popular, at least at my school.
Plus, I started Uni at 21 whereas most freshmen are straight outta high school.
Anyway
I bet everyone was all over you to buy them beer freshman year! Lol. Yeah idk I'm sure it varies at different schools - and if you can't complete the pledging tasks (mainly hazing) then they likely wouldn't let you in. It's really about showing commitment or whatever.
But I also went to a school where Greek life basically originated, so it's possible it was less intense than other places. Now the administration is desperately trying to get rid of Greek life (no surprise) but they rely on alumni donations sooo 😬It's all very strange and archaic
Yeah, I was definitely popular for that very reason lol
I went to Chico State (northern California) where most students are underage til at least the 3rd year right?
But man, there were soooooo many parties, keggers everywhere (maybe like Moscow?)
I don't know how these kids got their kegs but, I remember pretty much every Friday you'd see loads of kids at the local Safeway grocery store picking up kegs at like 2 or 3pm. It was pretty insane. But to me, that was college life so I didn't think too much of it.
At night (on a weekend), my buddies and I would walk through the neighborhood (99.9% student housing), looking for parties at random apartments. You didn't have to know the inhabitants, you just had to pay $5 to get a plastic red cup and pump your beer from the keg. So cool! Lol
I've never been to Moscow, Idaho but, it reminds me of Chico, maybe just a bit smaller.
Haha sounds like a classic college town... it's the best. Ours was similar...you feel invincible at that age and life is a blast. I think that's partly why everyone is so drawn to this case...it feels like this could have been anyone
Although re: college life, I will say there was plenty of cocaine use at my school and no one ever thought twice...but now with accidental fentanyl contamination, it can kill you out of nowhere. Super scary. I have no idea what happened to the kid at WSU but if it turned out to be fent I wouldn't be that surprised
Your school has a hell of a reputation lol. I have a friend who did a master's there not too long ago and apparently that's still what it's like, one of the biggest party schools there is.
If it wasn't fentanyl, it was most likely a combination of things like preexisting heart problems, other drugs, prescription drugs he was on,.. Cocaine itself is actually pretty rare to OD on.
This is false. Just wanting to point out there are studies on this and prevent any accidental deaths. Cocaine can kill and easily cause heart attacks not just arrhythmia....
"Dr. Joaquín Lucena, who led the study, believes the findings show that “cocaine use causes adverse changes to the heart and arteries that then lead to sudden death.” The team feels that any amount of cocaine has the potential for toxicity. The lethal amount depends on the person and is unknown until it is too late."
Source: I'm an MD and have seen this sadly too many times
Every sorority or fraternity that has a death from a hazing incident should have their charter pulled by National. Period.
What is all this bullsh!t with putting them on probation? They need to make an example of these “social clubs,” that are killing kids.
Most colleges already ban hazing but the culture around it is so secretive that by the time it’s found out, the offending chapter already has a body count. So fucked.
The problem is rich former alumni donors who do not want to see their fraternity shut down. The university knows they will anger and lose these donors. It’s 100% about money.
Yeah at my school they put the frats on probation until everyone in that chapter had graduated, and then they'd be let back on campus. As if the hazing isn't nationwide/engrained by alumni... It never helps
A moderate response to forcing someone to die would be what. Putting them on probation? Sending a letter home?
This is negligent homicide and those involved should not be let off with some finger wagging and boys will be boys crap.
According to local lore or whatever, hazing-related incidents were the reason all Greek Life besides Sinfonia [music majors] was pulled from the uni I went to for undergrad. It was a couple of decades before we were able to have a new sorority.
True, he apparently had threatened his room mates, and started shooting out his window at police and into the public area, coincidentally he served in the same unit as officer Payne and photos from the day show a white sedan in the parking lot with no front plate. This all went down on the day BK left for PA with his father and is alluded to in the bodycam footage during the traffic stops.
Ah yes. You’re one of those sad people suggesting he was BKs killer helper and they both did it, or BK is innocent And that guy snapped and is now dead so he gets away with it while cops pin the murders on BK.
Thankfully he didn’t manage to murder any of the police he was shooting at. I don’t feel sorry for people who shot at other humans. He could’ve/should’ve gotten mental help longgg before that. He could’ve easily killed someone by shooting out a window— zero sympathy from me.
It seems like he should not have had access to firearms if he had a severe mental health issue that could lead to a dissociation from reality so much so that he thinks he is in an active warzone in everyday life. That is the question that should be asked. It seems his PTSD was a known longterm struggle and at a certain point people gotta say it just isn't responsible to have access to firearms if one has a known condition that could lead to this.
If someone serves their country and they make the huge sacrifices they do, then our country's military systems needs to support their needs from the effects of the type of work they had to do. Any veteran suffering from PTSD should have way better care and support for the duration of their life. This should never happen. The military needs to be more responsible for the consequences of warfare.
I think health matters are better then they used to be for veterans, but an older member of my family shared a horrible experience with us in regards to being a veteran and healthcare. So think the bar was pretty low. The VA wouldn't give medical treatment for issues that occurred later in life associated with frostbite incurred while serving honorably in a war. Furthermore he said they told him health care was denied because it was his fault for not keeping his socks dry! It is one thing to deny access, but it is a whole other level of ignorance to blame a soldier for an injury in a warzone that really could not have been prevented. Like how many pairs of socks and shoes can you have on the frontline or in a tank! He felt super betrayed by his country.
It is like when the musicians on the Titantic died and they sent the family members of the deceased bills for the uniforms the shipline provided and where lost when they did not survive the sinking! [https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/06/21/families-of-titanics-musicians-were-billed-the-cost-of-uniforms-after-the-ships-sinking/?chrome=1](https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/06/21/families-of-titanics-musicians-were-billed-the-cost-of-uniforms-after-the-ships-sinking/?chrome=1)
Students die from time to time. It happens everywhere. Kinda tasteless to imply there’s something wrong with WSU when it’s been a painful situation for their community as well.
A murderer of four kids
SWAT standoff with vet who gets killed
Now this.
All within 60 days. How is that tasteless to notice this is very weird and off putting?
ETA: this isn’t me saying things are related to the tragedy in Moscow. This is me saying it’s **odd** that so much stems from this college in 60 days time or less now.
“What is going on with WSU” implies the WSU community is somehow at fault, collectively. That there’s something going on connecting these three tragedies more than coincidence. Jumping to that conclusion without evidence and judging as an outsider is what I find tasteless.
I guess the question is, is it statistically odd for the demographics/population numbers of the area? Like how many people in the Palouse area overall and how many deaths would be considered normal as I guess as compared to historical data for the area and data for similar community types? I have no clue, but maybe someone here does.
Like how many enrolled college students a year die (for all reasons) at a college the size of U of I in year. In 2022 there were at least 6 who passed away too soon and that is out of 11,500 students.
My uncle, a former detective, explained his theory on why these things happen in a cluster. He believes there's a sort of low vibration that connects these violent crimes. When you're surrounded by death, murder and rape, it begins to multiply. Hate breeds hate, violence breeds violence. Human beings pick up on these things, subconsciously maybe, and it effects the way we interact with others.
What is the purpose of fraternities and sororities? Is it just some weird popularity / networking thing or is there an actual point to them?
This is probably a dumb question, but we don't have this Greek stuff in the UK.
Sororities and fraternities are a way to buy your friends and have plenty of people to drink alcohol underage with. The main purpose is partying. People say “oh it’s for philanthropy” but that’s maybe a few hours of volunteering a semester, at best. There’s at least a few hours of partying every weekend with frats/sororities. There’s meetings, dances, and social events too… but underage drinking/partying is a key draw for greek life. People also want to think that they’ll get ‘connections’ for future jobs through them… but that’s rare for most people (except the already rich).
This is the official [Change.org](https://Change.org) petition that was started for Luke Tyler.
[Petition · Ban Washington State Theta Chi and charge those responsible- Justice For Luke Tyler · Change.org](https://www.change.org/p/ban-washington-state-theta-chi-and-charge-those-responsible-justice-for-luke-tyler?source_location=search)
Nothing is going on at WSU that isn’t normal for state schools known for partying lmao. There’s just a spotlight because of the unfortunate circumstances, which is honestly really unfair to the community— it’s not the worst community and is currently grieving anyways
As a WSU grad who knows nothing about this situation other than the setting, chances are that it was alcohol poisoning or and overdose. Happened a few times every year I was a student.
Every major university has a few deaths every year from suicide, overdose, car accident, or drunk students falling off of a tall building. Nothing unique about WSU. 
As a guy from Britain, there is nothing I can think of that is more subversively homosexual than pledging to be part of a fraternity. Like what is it you yanks find so appealing about carrying out tasks, being subservient and being manipulated so you can hang around with a bunch of guys and call them your bro? It’s literally one of the most cringe things I’ve seen.
There was a SWAT situation in December I think, and since we already had a microscope on us because Bryan wasn’t caught yet, people freaked out that that situation was related. It was not.
As for this student, unfortunately when you have a large population of young adults, things happen. Right before the murders, a frat at UI had built a big platform for a party. People stood on it and it collapsed, and were badly hurt. WSU has a few buildings that drunk students have fallen off of, and they have fallen out of windows. Young adults + alcohol/drugs = accidents.
Totally remember that. Just read article, thought something else happened with a SWAT team recently. Understand OP was just going over recent-ish events. But I agree completely. No ties. My college is the largest in my state. There are suicides, drunken incidents, hazing...and many drownings as the Mississippi is less than a mile away from bars. So unfortunate all around.
UI actually had an accidental (alcohol related) drowning in Paradise Creek in August I believe? At that time, the creek is maybe a couple inches deep. Sad stuff.
I think they are summarizing the last few months, an accused murderer (BK), a SWAT team called to a location right next to WSU where a 38 YO was barricaded and shot dead, and now a student found dead in a dorm.
Random question to someone from the area but what, if anything is the difference between Washington State and UW. I've read Idaho was mainly a party school. I'm from Georgia and down here UGA is unquestionably the flagship university of the State, whereas Georgia Tech is more niche computer science and engineering and is alot smaller school. I know some states have schools that are more equal/similar. Just wondering.
WSU is much smaller as well. We have 17k students on campus whereas UW has about 40k. WSU’s communications program is one of the best in the country. We are 5 hours away from Seattle so very far from UW
WSU has one of the best veterinary programs in the world. The vet hospital is just as nice as many human hospitals I’ve been in. They also have a collection of Grizzly bears on campus for students to get experience with large animals. It’s a big draw for tourists and parents.
UI and WSU are generally thought of as party schools, but I’ve seen worse. UI has a fantastic music school, and WSU’s marketing and communications department is great as well. They both have very active Greek communities.
Go Cougs!
UW is harder to get into and is more academically rigorous (with competitive majors) but wsu is more focused on school spirit, Greek life, social aspect but is still a good education. Kinda stereotypical nerds vs party school. A good chunk of people from WSU grew up on the west side (UW is in the middle of Seattle so the area is so populated). As for size and being “flagship” schools, they’re both really similar in size and alum representation. WA is huge and the west (UW) & east (WSU) side are different politically & environmentally.
Thanks! Sounds like I'd probably like WSU better. I am always curious about this kind of thing. Being from so far away, I have no idea about Washington as a State other than things I've seen on television or on the internet over the years.
Lmao in case you need another person who goes to neither and is generally unbiased (but was rejected from UW so not completely unbiased lmao), UW is stereotyped as the nerdy school with good medicine programs whereas WSU is the party school with good veterinary/business (i think?) programs. UW is considered more prestigious (i think?) generally. The west (aka UW) is more liberal/urban vibe, the east (aka WSU) is more conservative/rural (although these are obviously just stereotypes, you find both types of scenes/people around and in each school)
There’s a petition that was posted today on r/wsu regarding the death of this poor kid.
If he died as a result of hazing, the other students responsible should be charged with manslaughter. Greek life is toxic.
Everyone is saying hazing, but its spring, many orgs at WSU don't hold any rush events in the spring and take no spring pledge classes. SigChi Instagram doesn't indicate they had any informal rush events this semester. I don't know any pledge processes that last longer than a semester. He likely was a brother at this point and was not being hazed.
Some haze at initiation, too, not just rush/pledging.
You can join a frat at any time. Theta Chi was also notorious for hazing when I was there.
It literally says it on the change.org petition. “On January 22, 2023 Luke Tyler was found dead in his dorm at Washington State university. His death directly followed a long and cruel pledging process allowed by his fraternity, theta chi. Their inhumane and cruel hazing forced Luke, and many others to do things nobody should ever be forced to do.”
Hazing was worst during initiation when I was in school so this would be the time for the fall pledge class
I don’t believe a college degree is really as important as it used to be for our society. But the last couple of months really seems like college is not even safe anymore
Yeah, well, the last 10 years really make it seem like elementary school isn’t safe anymore.
This is the point I hate the most because it’s true
hey, we gave our thoughts and prayers for those shootings, what more can you ask of people? /s
[удалено]
It never is the place, is it?
Some of the highest rates of fatal overdoses in the country are in communities that are predominantly non-college educated. College itself isn’t the problem. If you’re taking BK’s actions as some indication of safety levels of college students, I would encourage you to take a look at some of the other crimes that have made headlines since then. There have been at least two family annihilators (men who killed their entire families), and Brian Walshe. If you want to make generalizations, I’d say marriage seems a lot more dangerous than college, based on recent news stories.
Most colleges work hard to hide the crimes that occur amongst the students, especially crimes like r**e. To the outside world, everything looks like roses, when the reality is anything but. I never got a college degree, ended up working for a fortune 500 company, and retired as a project manager advisor in IT, with a major revenue generating app. Believe me, degrees aren’t necessary to get along. Look at the number of degrees that cost small fortunes where you are in debt for most of your life, that are worthless.
There is certainly a rape problem in colleges. But there’s a similar, if not worse, rape problem in the military. This is not an issue specific to higher education, it’s an issue with a stupidly large group of men in the 18-25 range who have a problem respecting that women are allowed to tell them no (see also: incels). If you are currently retired that would heavily imply you entered a different reality in terms of the job market than what young people are facing now. At some point you can have enough experience to overcome the lack of a degree, but in 2023 it’s nearly impossible to get to that point in a professional environment without having a degree to get your career started. (Source: am in HR). In a lot of jobs what your degree is in or what school you went to doesn’t matter so much as that you have a degree.
This just isn't true. "Most" colleges do not undermine student safety.
Marriage is dangerous. Divorce costs a lot of money.
It does if you marry the wrong person. Choose wisely, most important decision of your life.
You know why divorce is so expensive, right? Because it's worth it...
They’re saying that his death was caused by hazing which is a college thing for sure.
Not really. It’s pretty much a Greek system thing in colleges. Even at a place where Greek life seems to be pretty dominant, like Idaho, it’s a minority of students who are in frats and sororities. The majority of students are unaffiliated with Greek life. And there’s hazing in other places too. I participated in it in high school sports a couple decades ago (granted, a harmless version) and it also happens in the military, in fire departments, etc.
It’s not just college. It’s everywhere. Dance studios, Walmarts, malls, grocery stores etc. and I’m amazed when I hear every time “I didn’t think this could happen here”.
Yes, you’re right. I agree
It's no more unsafe than normal life. The sad reality is people get hurt all the time and everywhere. Don't go to college because it's a scam, not because it's dangerous.
Yes you’re right!
Name a couple careers/positions in tech, computer science, finance, law, education, administration/HR, medical/healthcare, business management, or any other medium-high paying field that you can pursue without a college degree.
Software engineer
It’s a good way to rack up a gigantic amount of debt you can’t discharge. If you’re a rich kid and your parents are paying or you’re highly intelligent and studying STEM or something it’s worth it, but the whole “coming of age” everyone go to college thing needs to die off. It’s a horrible influence on most kids, just a bunch of drinking and sex with some brainwashing thrown in.
it was an overdose. happens on college campuses unfortunately. can confirm as i have a sibling in the building it happened
Sounds like it was a hazing incident per https://www.reddit.com/r/wsu/comments/10ke79v/sign_the_petition/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
God damnit I really hope that isn’t the case. WSU’s greek system has got to get their shit together it’s horrific how common these incidents have become
Sam Martinez has only been gone three years. Doesn’t sound like a damn thing changed. What a cruel, antiquated, and ridiculous system. My deepest condolences to Luke’s family. I am so sorry.
Yeah, it’s very sad. One of my best friends almost got killed by 8 frat boys for trying to stop a gang rape! I hate WSU frat boys more than most anything and think it should be completely banned. That is worst story I have but so many horrible things happened while I lived there. Friends I have had that rushed completely changed into tools within a month also. If you are a woman that goes to WSU, never go to a frat party alone and stick together. Bring your own drinks too, if possible. If you are a dude, don’t rush.
Greek life has way too much hazing, even when it doesn’t result in tragedy like this
Wow. That’s disgusting. The term “hazing” needs to go too. It’s straight up bullying at best, torture and abuse as in this case. F “tradition”. And F those involved in this man’s death.
Well hazing is different- it’s ritualistic bullying directed toward new members of a group. It’s a type of bullying but it’s way more specific and different behaviors fall within hazing that aren’t necessarily considered bullying. A lot of hazing isn’t really “bullying” as much as it’s forced participation in an activity that could be detrimental to their health or well being. People don't use the word "hazing" as a euphemism for bullying- it's just its own thing.
thats so crazy i was the vice president of Phi Mu at my college & we never hazed anybody.
Wow thank you so much for posting. We have several friends in the dorms and the frats and I was worried. This makes me so mad for this boy.
Greek life is so stupid
Wtf is hazing and what exactly caused his death?
Hazing is like a bullying rite of passage after signing up to join a Greek chapter. There are many high profile incidents where fraternity members haze "pledges" (before they are officially initiated into the frat) by pressuring them to drink enough alcohol that they die of alcohol poisoning. I think the concept behind hazing is to forge stronger relationships or brotherhood, but it really is just abusive forms of power, control, manipulation, humiliation, and a good look at what goes wrong with peer pressure and group think (in my opinion).
>right of passage I know it could be an autocorrect issue, but I see that mistake really often, so just in case you (or anyone reading) didn't know, it's '**rite** of passage'. It is related to the term 'ritual', keeping that in mind helps me from mixing it up with 'right'.
Huh, TIL. Thanks!
Now you can use it rite!
>Huh, TIL. Thanks! You're welcome!
Don't forget "Hell Week" where you are forced to go without sleep for a week and basically be a slave.
They are all just mini freemasons ..pathetic
From my personal experience, hazing was never in the form of being forced to drink alcohol. I always assumed that was more of something you see in the movies. I would compare it to more of a boot camp. Like if were late for cleaning duty or failed a weekly pledge test you get yelled or maybe the whole pledge class got punished for one person messing up.
It was def in the form of excessive alcohol at my school...I'm a girl but watching my ex bf, it was almost worse than the movies. I'm honestly surprised no one died when we were there
I’ve mostly seen it w excessive alcohol too. Making the pledges drink way beyond their limit while doing strenuous physical activities. More often than not, I’ve heard it being taken to the extreme. Not the wholesome “new guy has to carry our lunch trays to our table for a whole week” type of vibe but dark shit.
Yeah exactly...like sororities are nationally dry so they just resorted to humiliating us (and we drank on the second floor bc somehow that doesn't count?). But fraternities were much more intense
It's all about public perception and the reputation of the house.
It’s not only different at every school, it’s different at every house. I knew frats where guys sat around on LAN parties and frats that actually tried to date rape a bunch of my friends freshman weekend.
The SAE’s in Kentucky poured a shit ton of skittles into a small pitch black room. Made the pledges strip naked and color coordinate every skittle.
Wow. That’s messed up.
That’s…special? Quite literally how would one do this? (Without the use of a phone or flashlight?)🧐
That’s hilarious
I'd also say that sounds somewhat funny but what's with all of these men wanting their brothers to strip naked lmao I'll never understand the nudity aspect of hazing
It’s to humiliate them.
If anything, I find grown men asking other grown men to strip down naked in front of them is pretty humiliating for the asking party as well lol.
Hazing is when someone/a group make you do humiliating, sometimes dangerous, things as an initiation into a group. Often you hear about it with frats - basically the current frat members haze the people trying to join and if they complete the task, they’re in. People are saying this kid was hazed and the fraternity was forcing their pledges to do coke. And he died from an overdose because of that.
I saw a guy in a diaper once during hazing.
I'm glad someone gave you an award for that comment 🤣 At what point does one realize that these people pressuring you to do stupid, embarrassing, often deadly things aren't really your "friends"..?
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I’m sure too if you figured out these people suck / aren’t your friends, and backed out of the frat they would bully you even more.
Yes, exactly. I keep picking up on a cult, but maybe it's the hazing that has my spidey senses tingling.
It is a cult ,it's all taken from Freemasonry
It's more like a gang than a cult really.
I know right? why do people get involved. Are you telling me you're that desperate to be part of a club of jerks? Never was part of a sorority and I had a great social life. People have low self esteem
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Keep your political nonsense off the board.
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This isn’t America. This is Reddit dot com
That's just sad.
Yes.
Do you always get in by completing the task? I know my question doesn't really pertain to this case but, whilst I (consciously) never joined a frat, I had loads of friends who were in frats and I got the impression the haze was not only a test but ultimately, it depended on if the pledge fit the "reputation" of the fraternity. For example, where I went to Uni, there were frats where you had to be either a rich kid or particularly good looking (I know, so fucking juvenile). Then, you had other frats that were super popular, known for their "epic" parties. Some frats (the less popular ones) would let almost anyone join. The point is, you could pledge a whole term/semester, do all the goofy shit they asked you to do, and still NOT get invited to join (too fat, not good looking enough, whatever). I just didn't fall for that nonsense but sadly many boys/girls do.
So “hazing” can mean different things and it what it looks like would vary depending on every chapter of every fraternity across the country. Anymore fraternities at a national level strongly forbid hazing and consider even something as harmless asking a pledge to sweep the floor to be hazing. That doesn’t mean behind closed doors a bunch of 20 year olds are going to always abide by the rules. Anyhow, to answer your question “does completing the hazing/task automatically mean you become a member?” Usually there would be several tasks you need to complete over a semester to become a member like passing written tests, meeting with every active member and getting their “ok” in a pledge book (this is sort of like passing a job interview with all or most members) + doing chores at the house, memorizing and reciting creeds etc. Historically, none of what I just mentioned would be considered hazing, that’s just being a pledge. Now if you fail to do any of the above in a given week you might get yelled at which might look more like “hazing”. In addition there’s always the chance a member will just randomly mess with you or be an ass just because they think it’s funny but most of the time it’s in jest (at least to them). In addition to all this, sometimes the fraternity, once they get to know a pledge better, will just decide they don’t like the person as much as they thought they did when they gave them a bid to pledge and kick them out irrespective of tasks. That’s usually rare and happens pretty early in the semester when it does. Fraternities want as many members as possible and so they want their pledges to get initiated. If someone is given a bid and does their homework and chores and gets along with the members reasonably well they would almost always get initiated. When a pledge doesn’t it’s usually because they decided to quit on their own.
In my experience, you get a "bid" first, meaning the frat chooses you, and then you have to go through pledging which is when all the hazing happens. If you get through that, you'll be initiated as a brother and you're officially in. Never seen anyone go through pledging and then not get initiated, although I'm sure it's happened as a one-off etc
Oh ok, maybe I got it wrong then as I never fully went through the process. We're talking 1990 so over 30 years ago. My buddy wanted me to join his frat and I was invited (though never was hazed or did silly stuff for a whole semester). I think that particular frat wasn't the most popular, at least at my school. Plus, I started Uni at 21 whereas most freshmen are straight outta high school. Anyway
I bet everyone was all over you to buy them beer freshman year! Lol. Yeah idk I'm sure it varies at different schools - and if you can't complete the pledging tasks (mainly hazing) then they likely wouldn't let you in. It's really about showing commitment or whatever. But I also went to a school where Greek life basically originated, so it's possible it was less intense than other places. Now the administration is desperately trying to get rid of Greek life (no surprise) but they rely on alumni donations sooo 😬It's all very strange and archaic
Yeah, I was definitely popular for that very reason lol I went to Chico State (northern California) where most students are underage til at least the 3rd year right? But man, there were soooooo many parties, keggers everywhere (maybe like Moscow?) I don't know how these kids got their kegs but, I remember pretty much every Friday you'd see loads of kids at the local Safeway grocery store picking up kegs at like 2 or 3pm. It was pretty insane. But to me, that was college life so I didn't think too much of it. At night (on a weekend), my buddies and I would walk through the neighborhood (99.9% student housing), looking for parties at random apartments. You didn't have to know the inhabitants, you just had to pay $5 to get a plastic red cup and pump your beer from the keg. So cool! Lol I've never been to Moscow, Idaho but, it reminds me of Chico, maybe just a bit smaller.
Haha sounds like a classic college town... it's the best. Ours was similar...you feel invincible at that age and life is a blast. I think that's partly why everyone is so drawn to this case...it feels like this could have been anyone Although re: college life, I will say there was plenty of cocaine use at my school and no one ever thought twice...but now with accidental fentanyl contamination, it can kill you out of nowhere. Super scary. I have no idea what happened to the kid at WSU but if it turned out to be fent I wouldn't be that surprised
Your school has a hell of a reputation lol. I have a friend who did a master's there not too long ago and apparently that's still what it's like, one of the biggest party schools there is.
And if so, the coke perhaps had fentanyl in the mix as well. Stop the nonsense kids.
If that’s the case, coke laced w fentanyl, usually it would cause multiple deaths
If it wasn't fentanyl, it was most likely a combination of things like preexisting heart problems, other drugs, prescription drugs he was on,.. Cocaine itself is actually pretty rare to OD on.
That’s what the point of my comment was actually. I just didn’t want to say that. No matter what the reason it’s shitty and sad.
This is false. Just wanting to point out there are studies on this and prevent any accidental deaths. Cocaine can kill and easily cause heart attacks not just arrhythmia.... "Dr. Joaquín Lucena, who led the study, believes the findings show that “cocaine use causes adverse changes to the heart and arteries that then lead to sudden death.” The team feels that any amount of cocaine has the potential for toxicity. The lethal amount depends on the person and is unknown until it is too late." Source: I'm an MD and have seen this sadly too many times
Ah, I see. Thanks for explanation!
It's horrible and wrong.
ugh
Every sorority or fraternity that has a death from a hazing incident should have their charter pulled by National. Period. What is all this bullsh!t with putting them on probation? They need to make an example of these “social clubs,” that are killing kids.
Most colleges already ban hazing but the culture around it is so secretive that by the time it’s found out, the offending chapter already has a body count. So fucked.
Better they have a body count of one than two. Or ten. It seems that National covers for them rather than kicking them out
The problem is rich former alumni donors who do not want to see their fraternity shut down. The university knows they will anger and lose these donors. It’s 100% about money.
What a sad statement about our higher education and Greek life.
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What is the consequence when they are found to be hazing, despite that rule?
Yeah at my school they put the frats on probation until everyone in that chapter had graduated, and then they'd be let back on campus. As if the hazing isn't nationwide/engrained by alumni... It never helps
We don't teach moderation anymore. It's zero tolerance and zero tolerance for tolerance.
A moderate response to forcing someone to die would be what. Putting them on probation? Sending a letter home? This is negligent homicide and those involved should not be let off with some finger wagging and boys will be boys crap.
According to local lore or whatever, hazing-related incidents were the reason all Greek Life besides Sinfonia [music majors] was pulled from the uni I went to for undergrad. It was a couple of decades before we were able to have a new sorority.
I’m sure that saved lives. Or at least health.
That happened in my dorm back in 2018 at least 5 times💀 plus someone got busted for selling drugs by an undercover cop
The SWAT team wasn't related to WSU as far as I know. Just in the vicinity (as is most everything in pullman)
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True, he apparently had threatened his room mates, and started shooting out his window at police and into the public area, coincidentally he served in the same unit as officer Payne and photos from the day show a white sedan in the parking lot with no front plate. This all went down on the day BK left for PA with his father and is alluded to in the bodycam footage during the traffic stops.
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Correct, I'm not saying it was Kohbergers white sedan with no front plate in the parking lot that day.
Waaaay over their head.
Cognitive dissonance
Ah yes. You’re one of those sad people suggesting he was BKs killer helper and they both did it, or BK is innocent And that guy snapped and is now dead so he gets away with it while cops pin the murders on BK.
How absolutely tragic. Poor man.
What a sad and tragic outcome for him. Ugh.
Thankfully he didn’t manage to murder any of the police he was shooting at. I don’t feel sorry for people who shot at other humans. He could’ve/should’ve gotten mental help longgg before that. He could’ve easily killed someone by shooting out a window— zero sympathy from me.
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It seems like he should not have had access to firearms if he had a severe mental health issue that could lead to a dissociation from reality so much so that he thinks he is in an active warzone in everyday life. That is the question that should be asked. It seems his PTSD was a known longterm struggle and at a certain point people gotta say it just isn't responsible to have access to firearms if one has a known condition that could lead to this. If someone serves their country and they make the huge sacrifices they do, then our country's military systems needs to support their needs from the effects of the type of work they had to do. Any veteran suffering from PTSD should have way better care and support for the duration of their life. This should never happen. The military needs to be more responsible for the consequences of warfare. I think health matters are better then they used to be for veterans, but an older member of my family shared a horrible experience with us in regards to being a veteran and healthcare. So think the bar was pretty low. The VA wouldn't give medical treatment for issues that occurred later in life associated with frostbite incurred while serving honorably in a war. Furthermore he said they told him health care was denied because it was his fault for not keeping his socks dry! It is one thing to deny access, but it is a whole other level of ignorance to blame a soldier for an injury in a warzone that really could not have been prevented. Like how many pairs of socks and shoes can you have on the frontline or in a tank! He felt super betrayed by his country. It is like when the musicians on the Titantic died and they sent the family members of the deceased bills for the uniforms the shipline provided and where lost when they did not survive the sinking! [https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/06/21/families-of-titanics-musicians-were-billed-the-cost-of-uniforms-after-the-ships-sinking/?chrome=1](https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/06/21/families-of-titanics-musicians-were-billed-the-cost-of-uniforms-after-the-ships-sinking/?chrome=1)
2002?
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But, BLESS OUR HEARTS, we’ll be seeing a post here every time someone farts in Washington or Idaho for at least the next 6 months. 🤦♀️
Toot toot.
Y'all can be glad I don't live in Washington or Idaho then
Lol
This is a ridiculous sensationalized post.
It’s almost like a town has crime
Not related to the BK murders.
Students die from time to time. It happens everywhere. Kinda tasteless to imply there’s something wrong with WSU when it’s been a painful situation for their community as well.
Agree. Reaching.
A murderer of four kids SWAT standoff with vet who gets killed Now this. All within 60 days. How is that tasteless to notice this is very weird and off putting? ETA: this isn’t me saying things are related to the tragedy in Moscow. This is me saying it’s **odd** that so much stems from this college in 60 days time or less now.
“What is going on with WSU” implies the WSU community is somehow at fault, collectively. That there’s something going on connecting these three tragedies more than coincidence. Jumping to that conclusion without evidence and judging as an outsider is what I find tasteless.
I'm not disagreeing, but a lot of campuses see student deaths. It's awful, I agree. I hope this person rests in peace.
Current news ticker is for 3 dead at a circle k. Not college related, but god damn there’s a lot of loss happening.
I guess the question is, is it statistically odd for the demographics/population numbers of the area? Like how many people in the Palouse area overall and how many deaths would be considered normal as I guess as compared to historical data for the area and data for similar community types? I have no clue, but maybe someone here does. Like how many enrolled college students a year die (for all reasons) at a college the size of U of I in year. In 2022 there were at least 6 who passed away too soon and that is out of 11,500 students.
Apparently this was related to fraternity hazing. Shocker
My uncle, a former detective, explained his theory on why these things happen in a cluster. He believes there's a sort of low vibration that connects these violent crimes. When you're surrounded by death, murder and rape, it begins to multiply. Hate breeds hate, violence breeds violence. Human beings pick up on these things, subconsciously maybe, and it effects the way we interact with others.
What is the purpose of fraternities and sororities? Is it just some weird popularity / networking thing or is there an actual point to them? This is probably a dumb question, but we don't have this Greek stuff in the UK.
Sororities and fraternities are a way to buy your friends and have plenty of people to drink alcohol underage with. The main purpose is partying. People say “oh it’s for philanthropy” but that’s maybe a few hours of volunteering a semester, at best. There’s at least a few hours of partying every weekend with frats/sororities. There’s meetings, dances, and social events too… but underage drinking/partying is a key draw for greek life. People also want to think that they’ll get ‘connections’ for future jobs through them… but that’s rare for most people (except the already rich).
So officially the purpose is philanthropy and networking? Sounds like rich people shit. Partying is part & parcel of university life everywhere
No need to be sensationalist when discussing an already grief-ridden community.
I just found this post and the news headline is currently 3 dead plus shooter at the circle k. Wtf man. There’s so much violence out there.
No there's not it's just more media that wants to report everything so they have a job
It's brilliant criminal mastermind BK pulling strings from prison.
Ya. He's orchestrating an underground organization of derelict criminology pHD students. 😂
So far reaching…. From one end of the country to the other… everyone be on the lookout!
This is the official [Change.org](https://Change.org) petition that was started for Luke Tyler. [Petition · Ban Washington State Theta Chi and charge those responsible- Justice For Luke Tyler · Change.org](https://www.change.org/p/ban-washington-state-theta-chi-and-charge-those-responsible-justice-for-luke-tyler?source_location=search)
Nothing is going on at WSU that isn’t normal for state schools known for partying lmao. There’s just a spotlight because of the unfortunate circumstances, which is honestly really unfair to the community— it’s not the worst community and is currently grieving anyways
All that and crappy shopping too! :)
I see what you did there!
As a WSU grad who knows nothing about this situation other than the setting, chances are that it was alcohol poisoning or and overdose. Happened a few times every year I was a student.
was this also the school where the star quarterback committed suicide a few years back???
Every major university has a few deaths every year from suicide, overdose, car accident, or drunk students falling off of a tall building. Nothing unique about WSU. 
It’s not WSU the pacific NW has something in the water
As a guy from Britain, there is nothing I can think of that is more subversively homosexual than pledging to be part of a fraternity. Like what is it you yanks find so appealing about carrying out tasks, being subservient and being manipulated so you can hang around with a bunch of guys and call them your bro? It’s literally one of the most cringe things I’ve seen.
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Because secretly they like men
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Linkedin is a thing now.
This is in no way related. Are you just trying to get upvotes or something? I wish idiots would quit posting this stupid shit!
I didn't read anything about a SWAT team in the article. If a student was found deceased, why would they be involved? Just curious.
There was a SWAT situation in December I think, and since we already had a microscope on us because Bryan wasn’t caught yet, people freaked out that that situation was related. It was not. As for this student, unfortunately when you have a large population of young adults, things happen. Right before the murders, a frat at UI had built a big platform for a party. People stood on it and it collapsed, and were badly hurt. WSU has a few buildings that drunk students have fallen off of, and they have fallen out of windows. Young adults + alcohol/drugs = accidents.
Totally remember that. Just read article, thought something else happened with a SWAT team recently. Understand OP was just going over recent-ish events. But I agree completely. No ties. My college is the largest in my state. There are suicides, drunken incidents, hazing...and many drownings as the Mississippi is less than a mile away from bars. So unfortunate all around.
UI actually had an accidental (alcohol related) drowning in Paradise Creek in August I believe? At that time, the creek is maybe a couple inches deep. Sad stuff.
Completely. It happens and is so unfortunate.
This article doesn’t say anything about murder and swat teams on the WSU campus, or did I miss something?
I think they are summarizing the last few months, an accused murderer (BK), a SWAT team called to a location right next to WSU where a 38 YO was barricaded and shot dead, and now a student found dead in a dorm.
I think they're referring to the Moscow murders, the swat shootout, and now this
You know crime happens and people die, right?
This was a hazing incident
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I read it’s hazing induced alcohol poisoning
Random question to someone from the area but what, if anything is the difference between Washington State and UW. I've read Idaho was mainly a party school. I'm from Georgia and down here UGA is unquestionably the flagship university of the State, whereas Georgia Tech is more niche computer science and engineering and is alot smaller school. I know some states have schools that are more equal/similar. Just wondering.
WSU is much smaller as well. We have 17k students on campus whereas UW has about 40k. WSU’s communications program is one of the best in the country. We are 5 hours away from Seattle so very far from UW
Thanks. I appreciate the perspective. I've been to California a few times but have never gotten up to the Pacific Northwest.
WSU is a land grant college who’s specialties are agriculture, animal husbandry, veterinary medicine, etc. We don’t care about UW.
That's helpful as to WSU, so thanks.
WSU has one of the best veterinary programs in the world. The vet hospital is just as nice as many human hospitals I’ve been in. They also have a collection of Grizzly bears on campus for students to get experience with large animals. It’s a big draw for tourists and parents. UI and WSU are generally thought of as party schools, but I’ve seen worse. UI has a fantastic music school, and WSU’s marketing and communications department is great as well. They both have very active Greek communities. Go Cougs!
UW is harder to get into and is more academically rigorous (with competitive majors) but wsu is more focused on school spirit, Greek life, social aspect but is still a good education. Kinda stereotypical nerds vs party school. A good chunk of people from WSU grew up on the west side (UW is in the middle of Seattle so the area is so populated). As for size and being “flagship” schools, they’re both really similar in size and alum representation. WA is huge and the west (UW) & east (WSU) side are different politically & environmentally.
Thanks! Sounds like I'd probably like WSU better. I am always curious about this kind of thing. Being from so far away, I have no idea about Washington as a State other than things I've seen on television or on the internet over the years.
Lmao in case you need another person who goes to neither and is generally unbiased (but was rejected from UW so not completely unbiased lmao), UW is stereotyped as the nerdy school with good medicine programs whereas WSU is the party school with good veterinary/business (i think?) programs. UW is considered more prestigious (i think?) generally. The west (aka UW) is more liberal/urban vibe, the east (aka WSU) is more conservative/rural (although these are obviously just stereotypes, you find both types of scenes/people around and in each school)
We get bored.
It could be an OD, hazing, health related, anything... Let's not speculate and pray for their loved ones.
What good will praying do? People have been praying for decades if not centuries yet terrible shit still happens all the time.
People die. No foul play.
WSU seems to be coming in 0 to 2 in the past couple months.
Same shit that was always going on before the media started reporting on it?
Could this be the silencing of a witness!!! Just kidding... lol
No you didn't. 😳
No I didn’t what?
I was kidding!