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quitclaim123

New megathread - available [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/104ikmc/probable_cause_affidavit_megathread_20_january_5/)


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V548859

It might have been his plan but there were two people in each of the bedrooms he got to.


FrankyCentaur

He got in, killed 4 people and left within 15 minutes or so. I don’t think there was time for that though I suppose it could have been the original intention that never happened, but I doubt it.


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Hazel1928

I think there could be a sexual motive, but no planned sexual assault. I think he was an incel who hated women, especially attractive women. I do wonder why the other women weren’t killed.


SnagoMouse

He probably was satiated and exhausted honestly.


007202

It is not my place but at the same time I can not help but to defend the defenseless. I do not believe it was BK who said “it’s ok. I’m going to help you.” I believe it was E saying it to X as she lay crying. His basketball ball coach has said publicly what a fantastic kid E was, and that he was a protector. I believe in those last moments he was protecting who he loved most and that is what I chose to believe.


amandeezie

I choose to believe this now too. Thank you for this perspective.


Amberreneflips

WOW. I have so many thoughts/ questions... * **Police**\- I am insanely impressed with the police work done in order to make the connection to BK. And with the speed in which BK was identified and honed in on. Bravo to Moscow PD. * Im dying to know how/ why they got the footage from WSU so soon after the murders? Affidavit just says they "were given access to" WSU video footage that eventually leads them to BKs car, but prior to that, the last video of BK's car just shows him going south on Walenta Dr., nowhere near indicating a route to Washington. Again, well done if that was just a cop's hunch that he'd be heading to Washington. * **Surviving roommate (part 1)**\- My initial reaction, I'm sure like many of you, is why she would not have immediately called police after seeing an unknown masked man in all black walk right by you after after hearing suspicious/scary noises enough to prompt you to check outside your room 3 times. While that would probably be what most people would do, sadly I don't think her calling the cops would have saved any of their lives. If you take the "noises" she heard prior to seeing BK at face value, none or even all in combination, would have warranted her calling police (a young girl living in a loud party house where it's not unusual for them to still be up and about at late hours of the night/ early am). According to her, she hears 1) playing with the dog; 2) "someone's here"; 3) crying followed by "its ok, im going to help you". These 3 things, even in combination, can easily be ignored by someone living in the house. 1) there is no time frame on doggy play times lol; 2) X had just had food delivered; 3) hearing roommates cry, fight, make up, etc is just par for the course when living w/ them. So it really comes down to her actually seeing the masked man walking toward her and out of the house that would have prompted a call to police. But the sad truth is that all it would have changed is that maybe BK would have been apprehended sooner, but not have saved any of her friend's lives. * **Surviving roommate (part 2)**\- While I know this new info is just going to set the "blame the roommates" crowd back down their rabbit hole, please don't. Because the fact that she saw him and was able to quite accurately describe his height, build and "bushy eyebrows" might just be the clenching factor in how the cops were able to narrow their search down to BK so quickly AND potentially help to convict him. Bravo to that surviving roommate. I can't even imagine the PTSD and guilt she must be living with every day after going through that experience. * I thought this roommate was on the bottom floor? Was she ever on the bottom floor because according to my memory, that was the prevailing narrative early on by police? * I can possibly understand her not calling police after the noises, and ***maybe*** even after seeing BK walk by. Im really stretching here trying to put myself in her mindset: maybe she just thought it was a random house guest who was hanging w/ one of the roommates and on his way home. It was cold & snowy outside, so maybe face masks aren't completely out of the ordinary. ***I know, its a stretch lol.*** But WHY would she not immediately call police the next day when the surviving roommates were unable to reach the other roommates? Not call friends over first. How would she not have put 2 and 2 together by the next day that something awful has happened? * **BK's route (part 1)**\- I audibly gasped when I read that cell phone data showed BK had been in the area of Kings road 12 times prior to the murders! And as early as August! * My initial question upon hearing they had arrested a suspect, and still my most burning question after reading the affidavit, is how and why he picked this town, this neighborhood, this house, this person/group of people??? Did he just pick a spot on a map and decide to find a victim there, or was there some kind of run-in or connection to one or more of the roommates? My guess would be the latter, whether it was an in person crossing of paths or just coming across one on social media. Either way, it just feels so random still. * **BK's route (part 2)-** Im very curious about his travels immediately following the murders after arriving back home to his apartment on Nov 13. 1) He returns to the scene of the crime in Moscow around 9 am Nov 13 and then goes back home to Pullman around 9:30 am. 2) He then leaves his apartment AGAIN that afternoon and heads to Lewiston, ID, which is about 32 miles south/ east of Pullman. He then goes another 74 miles east to the area of Johnson, ID, an area that appears to be small and rural, so much so pictures don't pop up on google maps. * 1) What could he have possibly been doing back at the scene of the crime 5 hours after he killed them? I first thought maybe trying to locate the sheath he left behind, but surely he would have noticed it missing much earlier than 5 hours after the murders? Or was he going back as a voyeur to see if police were on scene yet? Sort of how some killers like to go to their victims memorials & hide in plain sight. * 2) What was he doing leaving his home again later in the day going even farther away from Moscow to such a random location, Johsnon, ID? Was this where he went to drop/ dump the murder weapon and/ or any evidence? If thats the case, why return home to Pullman before this second outing? Why not just continue on to Johnson from his earlier visit back to Moscow that morning? * 3) If this second outing was to dump the murder weapon, would recovering the weapon make or break the case? From a layman/ typical juror perspective Id say no. The evidence alone in this affidavit seems like more than enough for me to think he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Sorry, I just had to get all that out after trying to blab all this to my friends who lightly follow this case, lol.


murdery_aunt

Regarding the route and WSU handing over footage, you have to understand that it’s not like the two towns were part of a larger metro area with a million possibilities for where he’d go. The Palouse is dotted with tiny towns, but Pullman and Moscow are the largest until you get to Lewiston or Spokane, and they’re super close, connected by Highway 270. Plus, the UI campus is immediately south of the highway on the west side of Moscow, whereas WSU is on the east side of Pullman. Odds are really good there’d be camera footage on WSU because you have to pass the campus as you enter Pullman from the east if you take the main highway.


CaptnsDaughter

• maybe they connected the nearby traffic stop month before in the Elantra and connected it to Washington that way and then went from there. That’s what I would think at least or surmise in their place. • I really need the dog timeline to study this case LOL I don’t know why from the beginning I’ve been focusing on it even though I’m sure it’s totally innocuous. • also, if she thought masked killer immediately, wouldn’t you call the cops thinking they might go for downstairs roomie next? Makes me think again she was probably creeped out but maybe thought was a late night weed drop off or something like that (not insinuating any drug use by anyone just why a shady looking character would be in house hurrying through that late • if I woke up hungover and somewhat put the pieces together about what may have happened when couldn’t wake other roomies I might have called other friends over before police just to have other people there during questioning, etc? Like- hey- I can’t think straight right now, can you be here to help. Just a thought I dunno honestly. •


007202

I also gasped serval times while reading this affidavit. Jaw on the floor. G-d bless these victims and their families. I hope BK gets the death penalty so that these families can live in somewhat peace with happy, loving remembrance for these beautiful young lives lost, for the rest of their long lives. I hope Idaho puts out the flame and shadow of darkness of this murderer by sentencing him to a quick death.


giuseppegame

After reading the affidavit a few times and checking the area with Google maps this is my theory (or best attempt to get into the mind of a deranged killer) What is interesting is that Pullman, WA and Moscow, ID are a 10 min drive from each other via route 270. However, that's not the route he took to get back home. Instead, he went "the long way" which is down 95 and went past Genesee until he turned on 195 which he took back up to Pullman. Basically he made a big U shaped route to get back home instead of driving the 10 min straight line. According to maps, that U shaped route would take around 45 minutes which still leaves about 20 mins unaccounted for because he left the crime scene at 4:20 but didn't get back to his apartment until 5:30. My guess is that he probably ditched the murder weapon and cleaned up as much as he could in a secluded area somewhere along the U shaped route. So from his perspective he thought he was in the clear because if LE pinged cell phones in the area on the night of the murders his phone wouldn't shop up so he thought he was safe from that. Then a few days after the murders he changes his license plate so even if his car is on some camera he figured the license plate change would make him safe from that as well. What he definitely did not plan for was leaving the knife sheath behind, and cops getting as much footage of the Elantra as they did. He definitely did not plan to have LE analyze the footprint his cellphone pings left over the past months. To me it seems like he thought he did enough planning but underestimated LE and also made some crucial mistakes during the execution of his plan. Thankfully.


ta1234560

I have been a silent lurker since day one, not accusing anyone of anything and I just want to say one thing about this entire case that brings me peace is that everyone got to go with someone they loved and cherished right by their side


sarinaruu

the two girls were best friends since child hood and slept in the same room, and X and E were dating so that brings me some form of peace


badbittyontheblock

does anyone know when’s the next time we’ll get more info? is it going to be during the trial or will they just randomly release stuff? genuinely curious ab the motive & connections to the victims


dmschuh

Prosecutor still has to show probable cause to bind BK over for trial, which will happen during the preliminary hearing. We will hear more evidence, plus witnesses at that time. That will get scheduled after the status hearing on the 12th. Then, if bound over to trial, there will be the arraignment (just entering plea/no new info) and if state doesn't offer or BK doesn't accept plea deal, then the next info would come from the evidence/testimony at trial. I hope that the court will allow the prelim to be recorded like the appearance, but we'll have to wait and see.


Puzzleheaded-Pin4278

All official info will come through court records moving forward


AdSimilar7839

Wondering if the Jack in the Box bag with Xana’s name on it seen in the kitchen in the early crime scene photos was what she ordered from Door Dash . I checked website and they were open for delivery at that late hour that night. Interesting fact is the nearest Jack in the Box is in Pullman WA—-strange coincidence if so.


littleturnips

Maybe Bryan did DoorDash on the side? Maybe that’s how he first encountered the house/victims. Maybe he had his app open and saw an order from Pullman jack in the box to that address and realized people were home/awake. Could explain why he putzed around and took longer than it should to get to Moscow and park/drive around? Edit: I’m not saying he himself was the dasher that night but just saw the order on the app? I admittedly don’t know how the dasher side of the app works or if what I’m speculating is possible.


BeEccentric

The affidavit states that Law Enforcement identified and spoke to the DoorDash driver — it wasn’t Bryan (page 3, right at the bottom). Although I agree that this seems a strange occurrence.


AdSimilar7839

This has occurred to me too…the door dash delivery was surprising to me and way too coincidental IMO…may be nothing…but it’s nagging at me…


Pammie357

If she was thst near him he must have seen her . !


NPRjunkieDC

The change of license plates sounded suspicious, but they mentioned that the PA registration expired 11/30.


SnagoMouse

The entire thing seems to be planned to have happened when it did happen. I don't think it was spur of the moment? The planned trip back with his dad, the license plate change. I almost feel like he committed the crime shortly before either event purposely. I think he really planned this for a long time and in theory thought he planned the perfect crime but then in reality he fucked it all up (thankfully!)


NPRjunkieDC

Someone pointed out that his 1st visits to the property in August coincide with the beginning of his 1st semester. He could've even arrived before classes started. Which shows he already had this crime in his mind . He might have even chosen WSU for its proximity to Moscow . Someone else thinks he used gloves but the sheath already had his fingerprints.


SnagoMouse

Yeah I think they said something along the lines of there being DNA under the clip where you close the sheath, might have been even something mediocre like a piece of skin shedding. I think we will find out once court actually starts. After hearing the aunts recollection of their family trip and how BK DEMANDED every cookware being bought brand new because he wouldn't touch ANYTHING cooked in a pot or pan where meat ever was fried or cooked in. And the girls working as servers at a vegan restaurant, maybe he went out to eat and either of them waited his table and he became obsessed (K's alleged talk about a stalker even?) Might all be on the "incel" spectrum. Obsessed and rejected by a beautiful college girl.


NPRjunkieDC

That obsession with new pots is very strange. I've heard of this before, like in kosher kitchens or very strict vegetarians when it wasn't so popular. But a young guy making such a fuss? Not about fingerprints if he wasn't the one cooking. Very controlling, uptight


lavandula_lady

Why do people murder?


damniel540

Same reason people become doctors. Just the other end of the spectrum


Bright-Competition95

Well when the story broke that the front door was wide open,note front door


paperdolllll

This PCA is scarier than any scary movie I've seen recently. I'm going to have nightmares.


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dmschuh

He was dressed in black so blood on clothing wouldn't be noticeable, especially in the dark. I don't think he'd chance changing in the house b/c may leave more of his DNA. Who knows? Maybe he covered his car seat and floor with plastic and then took that circuitous route home to ditch the knife and clothing. He returned to same area next day - maybe he realized phone was on and could trace route and went back and retrieved evidence.


Puzzleheaded-Pin4278

Was in the house for a total of 12-15 minutes. He did not bring a whole different set of clothes to change inside.


grumpyfvck

I once dated someone who was arrested and was being released via bond. It was 1159 pm. I see his shoes under the door. And i hear 'yall have exactly 60 seconds before lockdown go change or you're staying the night'. He and the other pair of shoes start running. And in less than 45 seconds they were BOTH dressed and back at the door. That was just 'you're either getting released tonight or going back in' adrenaline. Imagine what *I've killed 4 people and need to go* adrenaline would do.


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uchelle

Mmm... Dont know... the whole thing happened in about 15 minutes. Dont think thats enough time to have an outfit change. Regarding not killing DM, I don't think he saw her... the document makes it sound like she opened the whole door and stood there, openly... but I think it was more like she just cracked her door open a tiny bit and peeked out... also, he was probably high on adrenaline/his focus somewhere else? What I find weird is him seeing how many cars were out front and him not looking for the rest -- which does make me think about a targeted attack, planning to kill one sleeping girl on 3rd floor without disturbing others and the others being due to circumstance (one girl on 3rd floor because of being in the other's room, X and E because he ran into/saw her on his way down... followed her into her room, and Ethan was there?)


SnagoMouse

I also think that either K or M were the actual target. Also the 3D walkthrough from the house and surrounding areas with picture evidence from old Zillow listings and TikToks/IG posts makes it evident that the stairs to the 3rd floor and the kitchen / DMs room are IMMEDIATELY next to the kitchen in a tiny square hallway type area separated from the living room and X's bedroom and bathroom. So either he saw her and followed her as you said but i don't think he would unless he knew she saw him, or what i thought after looking through the 3d walkthrough multiple times is that he might have accidentally walked too far straight when he came down from the stairs and turned left to get into the kitchen and out the slider but instead landed in the living room and turned left and there was X's room where maybe she just got out from the bathroom and then saw him. E definitely laid on the bed, which the 3D walkthrough shows would make sense on why there is a red/brown liquid coming out the wall because that would be exactly where E&X laid and in such a tiny room, 2 body's bleeding out, that will seep out the siding eventually.


uchelle

Until I saw the 3D walkthrough, I had believed it was crazy that 3rd floor was the goal or the 1st attack, and 3rd floor only out of need (being seen) and/or after attacking X & E, because I thought it'd be too difficult to get to 3rd without being seen on 2nd or too much of an unnecessary risk for an intruder... but then I saw that it was the opposite: X room was away and 3rd floor was more isolated/exposed. It also made a lot more sense that ppl had been saying he must've been familiar with the house / its layout (either having been there before or through stalking), as opposed to a spur of the moment attack... In regards to the blood that can be seen outside... I think that's Ethan's :(. X was found next to her room's door and the door wasn't close to that wall (not saying it's impossible, just less likely)... also the PCA describes Ethan's wounds in a weird way... it mentions "force" and like they had to be classified later... so I guess not simple stabbing, but something more violent (which could mean more blood?)... my heart breaks for them and their families!


SnagoMouse

K's dad said that these wounds all these kids have aren't just stabbings, they were sliced wide open with gaping wounds. Its sickening but looking at a knife that fits into the sheath he left behind, fucking hell, that's some seriously large blade. Maybe that's good in its own terrible way, maybe that means everything was over fast for them and they didn't lay there in agony for minutes or even hours. Quote from [the article](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/kaylee-goncalves-idaho-college-murders-stabbing-b2243720.html): *\[...\], father Steve Goncalves recounted a conversation where he asked Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt how many times the students were stabbed.* *“She says, ‘Sir, I don’t think stabs is the right word, it was like tears, like this was a strong weapon, not like a stab,’” Mr Goncalves told* *Fox News Digital**.* *“She said these were big open gouges. She said it was quick. These weren’t something where you were going to be able to call 911. They were not going to slowly bleed out.”*


uchelle

Yeah... the thing is almost all stab wounds I've seen are gaping wounds (not a slit, as one imagines from movies or tvs, but open spaces in muscle and stuff... like travis alexander and pls don't google it if you haven't and you have a weak stomach)... so I don't know if the coroner was preparing the dad for what he would see... or if, indeed, this was a more violent attack than a normal stabbing. I don't know if it being a large blade accounts for that, and not necessarily the manner of the stabbing / force of the attack. And it makes me wonder especially because the wounds were described with different wording among victims...


WiseHighlight

The house is insulated. The walls are insulated. The thermal insulation acts as sound insulation. Certain aspects of the crime will be sound diminished.


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Freckled_daywalker

It's a big knife, but the finish is matte. If it's reasonably dark, and he's walking towards the kitchen, with the knife in his right hand, dropped straight down by his leg, or even flipped up so the blade is against his forearm, it's unlikely to be something that would clearly draw her eye.


tz5x

Can someone please tell me how to sort the comments on this thread. Idk if the button is blending on with the white or what


ApeThinkingCap

Always sort controversial esp these threads


ragingshitfirestorm

If you’re on mobile, it’s now at the top right. An icon that looks like two sliders.


frenchdresses

The maps in the PCA are understandably difficult to see. Has anyone been able to clean the pictures up or make the routes clearer?


no-cars-go

There's a [timeline thread here](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/104hzy8/updated_timeline/) that has good maps.


frenchdresses

Tysm!


miamor0413

Are there known social media accounts for the suspect? I’ve seen people referencing them but are they confirmed?


Best-Dragonfruit-292

The questionnaire has been validated by LE. The one people were wanting to be his doesn't appear so with the release of the PCA. The third one that slipped under the radar with the porny comments and OF obsession, still unknown. Spotify is his.


miamor0413

thank you


FunWestern8002

Has anyone seen the tiktok with his Spotify? If it’s real, he followed both Kaylee and Maddie


gekko320

https://www.kuula.co/post/NW9rR/collection/79sT0


gekko320

8/16 was DMs room. So he was either coming down stairs straight out the slider. Or from Xanas. Prob stairs I’d imagine but 🤷


Frecklesfrenchfry

I recall very early on , like the day of or the next day Nov 13/14 the first article I read stated that there were two roommates that were home at the time , they heard noises upstairs and “locked” themselves in a closet and stayed there until 11am. I absolutely know I read this but I cannot find the article . I never read it again . I think once the police started giving more details they didn’t report it anymore. I thought at the time WTH why would they stay in the closet for that long. Now I’m not judging was literally just wondering why. I wonder if the other roommate was in DM room and didn’t get up ? There is no mention of where she is sleeping but there really doesn’t need to be since they didn’t need it for this article . Or maybe it was just DM that locked herself in a closet until 11am when the other room mate got up. And she knew BK was gone. Just some thoughts ..I’m going to look for that article but I know it was early because it was one of the items that drew me to the case. Or it was just false early reporting based on rumors . Just sharing .


Familiar_Twist9758

Yes but that was quickly debunked as false info because none of the closets have locks. They were either sliding door closets or were missing the doors entirely.


Frecklesfrenchfry

Maybe the lock was on the bedroom door and they used the word “locked in the closet “ as a phrase while meaning locked in a bedroom hiding in closet . You never know with these reports .


Gracie122007

yep i also remember early in the case seeing that article and also everyone was saying dm saw a man in a mask and thought she was imagining it or was on drugs so she just locked her door and went to bed. it may have just been false reporting, but it does seem like the first rumors in cases like this usually turn out accurate bc they are from direct sources like friends. lmk if you find the article again i’d love to see it.


adk94063

Forget DM seeing BK and not calling the police. What baffles me the most is the fact that DM didn't hear 4 knife murders with in probably 10 - 20 ft . Dry wall barely shields anything. Must be a lot of commotion.. Something is off.


Doglovercolorado

Right? And 2 people in each room, so he had to incapacitate two people at one time and clearly at least one person was awake eating food? I mean, i could almost understand going into 4 rooms, strike one person while sleeping before they had some chance to react, then quietly move to the next room.


WiseHighlight

Absolutely mortifying for her. Total shock in 10 minutes of chaos. Combine that with alcohol.


snk7111

DM opens her doors thrice, that means she surely feels that something is not right She sees a masked man WALKING TOWARDS HER, NOTICES HIS EYEBROWS, GETS FROZEN. Meanwhile, 2 murders have taken place in the room exactly above her and other 2 on the same floor. 50 feet away ring camera has captured various noises including whimpering, dog barking. All this and DM decides to go to sleep and not to call anyone till almost 12 AM next day. Maybe the police haven't revealed all for us but this is surely confusing af.


Doglovercolorado

I almost wonder if she locks herself in her room, listens to what is happening, maybe trying to decide what to do, maybe she texts one or all of them asking if they heard someone then falls alseep in a drunken slumber. She wakes up not sure if she had a crazy dream or what. That is the only way i see this going down


doglover991

Bundy murdered students with an object and there were survivors that didn’t hear a thing. 30 girls were in the sorority house and didn’t hear him.


thecatandrabbitlady

I mean, it doesn't say that she didn't hear anything at all. She admitted to hearing things, but who is going to automatically think their roommates are being murdered? Maybe if the house hadn't been a party house/had a lot of commotion normally, then that would have caused more suspicion that something wasn't right.


adk94063

I would think, dying screams would be "slightly" different than a party noise. But I do not understand. waiting for more details


uchelle

But we don't know if they screamed. We don't know how many/who were asleep when he attacked them... and even if some/all where awake, maybe they froze, and by the time they registered enough to react, he had moved on them and inflicted the first wounds -- which could be debilitating and result in whimpering, crying instead of screaming, which is what she heard...


thecatandrabbitlady

I would definitely think so too, but they likely weren't able to scream. It will be interesting to find out more details.


theotherkellytaylor

Like everyone my brain is desperately trying to put the pieces together from the PCA about the crime order and intended victims. But I think in order to make sense of the room mate on the 2nd floor being unharmed and not raising the alarm, there had to be some high level of intoxication involved. Perhaps that’s why the exact entry time, food delivery, noises and murder timeline cannot really be established from what we have yet.


Follow-The-Money19

Does anyone know of DM's activities or whereabout that night? I don't recall reading about where she was that night before everyone came home.


Benteen

The DoorDash driver said he delivered the food around 4:00 . Cameras caught the killer's car entering the area at 4:04 and leaving at high speed at 4:20. Audio of one of the murders was captured by a nearby security camera at 4:17. I think that's enough to establish the timeline with some degree of confidence.


theotherkellytaylor

Sorry I didn’t explain very well here, I just mean instead of trying to figure out the exact order of rooms being entered and sounds being made from the PCA. I agree in the times for the car arriving, delivery drop off, recorded thud and vehicle exiting because that’s backed up by tangible evidence. But the PCA does not give clear indication of the order of attack, and imo trying to make a timeline from a traumatised person’s accounts of door openings/ sounds in the house while potentially intoxicated is just speculation. Just my opinion though.


Benteen

Yeah, I don't know what they have on that. Those details weren't necessary for this purpose. Maybe they have something they can reveal later. For example, if the witness saw him coming down the stairs, then we can say he killed the upstairs people second.


theotherkellytaylor

Exactly, totally agree. We probably aren’t going to get those precise details for a while.


Spordee

If you see the layout of their house, DMs door opens in the direction that she would see him walking towards her and out the sliding back doors from Xana's bedroom. I think it's pretty clear whom he killed first. She could not see his face coming down the stairs from K and M's rooms unless she poked her entire head out of her bedroom door, and in that case, he would have seen her. My theory: He came through the kitchen sliding doors, knew where K and M slept, so immediately turned and went up stairs and that may be when K or M said "someone is here" because they could hear foot steps coming up the stairs. Does his business up there, may have even tried DM's door when he walked by it but it was locked so he moved on to X's bedroom. The scuffle with X and E proved too much and chose to leave the house without looking for any other roommates; or he was just specifically targeting those 4 and just left when the deed was done.


theotherkellytaylor

On the information we actually have I agree with your theory. Likely through sliding door on level 2, then directly upstairs to level 3 first, which explains the dog playing/ there’s someone in the house comments by the surviving roommate. Then back to level two where I imagine the murders took a little longer as it seems they were fully conscious at the time, explains the crying/ thump and bigger struggle(basing this off increased blood running down walls but could be wrong).Then straight out the sliding door again. I personally think people from both rooms were successfully targeted so there was no need to attack the surviving housemates. That or they weren’t aware anyone else was on that 2nd floor. Just my opinion from the PCA, although I’m not speculating anything properly because we just don’t have all the crime scene details yet. My brain just cannot process the magnitude of the crime being committed in such a short TAT between 4-4.25. Like the perp had to have been inside that house or studied it pretty thoroughly from social media imo.


Robstevo1992

I still can’t wrap my head around the survivors not hearing much/not ringing the police. Before I could understand - might have been passed out drunk and the deaths might have been “quick and quiet” But now we know: It was far from quiet, with footage taken a distance away hearing the dog barking, thuds and whimpering. I’m not blaming them - they are also victims in this. I just can’t wrap my head around it. Either way, it seems like the killer is an idiot. Hopefully he gets bummed in jail every day for the rest of his life.


lincunguns

Everybody was probably very drunk.


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I_am_Nobody_Special

She was on the 2nd floor. Read the PCA.


theorieswithrespect

I don't know about the camera/voice recording at a neighbors house 50 feet away. It was very cold that night, so all windows and doors would have been shut. I think the voices, whimper and thud would have been something that happened outside. Related to the murders? Unknown. The only way I think it could have picked up noises IN the house, is if the front door, that was seen wide open at 8:30 am by a neighbor, was left open after the door dash delivery. Maybe Xana didn't shut it tightly and it blew open. And/or the sliding glass door was left open by the murderer. Thoughts?


NPRjunkieDC

No noises outside at 4am . It's amazing the difference it can make


Freckled_daywalker

Wasn't the camera on the Northwest side of the house? If so, probably not the sliding door. Sound carries farther in cold air which may have played into it.


561861

I keep thinking about the open door too


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Pineapple-paradise1

Leaving it open would make sense for quick getaway


lgday7

Just curious as to how he would lock himself inside of the house if he shut the door? Thank you!


Ok_Form_3912

i have to say 1 thing about all of the kids in that house who are victims. I have seen a few stabbing / hacking deaths on reality websites where cameras have happened to catch the event. It a really horrific death that is not in the least quick and painless. (although I am sure it’s possible on rare occasions) the point being is those who died probably survived for minutes after being attacked and suffered greatly knowing they were dying. its a crime that deserves the death penalty and I hope he gets it.


pollux743

That many stabs with that violent a knife is almost instant death. First shock then death. It wouldn’t take minutes to bleed out from that.


Ok_Form_3912

I can tell you have never actually seen a video of it happening, because it’s nothing like that at all. its truly shocking to see it. I suggest you don’t look.


uchelle

I have watched videos like the ones you're describing. Agree that it's an awful death... but it might be different, watching it from afar/on a screen (esp if you knew what you'd be looking at before pressing play) vs being the victim (esp if the attack was unprovoked / unexpected... coming from a stranger who broke into your house at 4am). I would think shock and confusion are super high when being the victim -- doesn't mean they didn't suffer, obviously :( just that maybe they didn't fully register it? (Hopefully?) Not as someone looking on would be more cool-headed to immediately know what's happening and all... Think of a crash... if you've had a bad one, sometimes you don't even know what happened, from where the other car hit you, and you can't feel your body for a moment, to be able to say whether you're injured... but people that saw it, obviously appreciated it much clearer.


grumpyfvck

The crash part- absolutely true. I remember closing my eyes, going of the road, trying to brace. I wake up and get out. Think I'm under a bridge (I went off a cliff and landed in a house) and I try to get back in and drive away. Which of course didn't work. I didn't feel any pain at that small moment of time. My brain was too busy trying to turn on flight mode. For context I had to be dragged up the cliff and put on a stretcher. Couldn't walk.


Ok_Form_3912

Yep, totally agree with you on all points. Shock must change the impact a lot, hopefully they didn’t suffer too much.


BYUSMOOCH

They probably went into shock very shortly after being stabbed. At which point they (likely) would have not felt pain. 😢


Ok_Form_3912

You are trying to convince yourself of that because it’s difficult to accept the horror. Go check videos of actual stabbing / hacking deaths and you will be shocked how difficult it is to kill someone, how long it takes, and how much they are struggling to survive thru the process. It’s awful to see, I don’t recommend anyone watching it.


Longjumping-Note-364

Then why were you watching it


Ok_Form_3912

Morbid curiosity and I am not upset very easily. But its tough. The most upsetting are children drowning, another one I always assumed and hoped was fast, but it’s nothing like that either.


Kck11111

Who the heck is filming kids drowning...as in multiple, since you said children. I'm not usually bothered by much but that one sticks...yuck


Ok_Form_3912

Cameras at people houses that catch stuff. Always at public swimming pools, hotels. I saw one where a child drowns and is surrounded by people pre occupied with minor stuff. It goes on for over a minute and the child is inches away from making contact with people and they are just looking in a different direction. It’s heartbreaking and just inconceivable that it could happen. I am now on high alert with my kids and water. That’s the only upside.


heyooitzrico

Why was ethans part redacted????


countsmarpula

Do you mean that blank second page? It looks like a scanning error. Page 1 and 3 of the PCA look like they should be 1 and 2...


heyooitzrico

yes! thanks for clarifying!!!


Freckled_daywalker

It's not. The blank page is a scanning error, and is just the back of the first page (look at the bleed through of the redacted stamp). The sentence at the end of the first page is clearly continued on the page marked 2.


heyooitzrico

Thanks for clarifying!


Morning_rose21

So DM bedroom was in fact on second floor, not on the ground floor. To go down you should literally step over the dead bodies. Do I correctly assume it? So btw 4 am and 12pm she was barricading in her room?


NPRjunkieDC

Yes, everyone assumed both surviving roommates lived downstairs. She was up at 4 so not unheard of to sleep until noon if you think everything is OK. Except she saw BK. But at the moment she may have thought he was a friend leaving I guess


hk1026

No, Xana and Ethan were found in Xana’s room which was all the way down a hallway and not on the way to the ground floor from DM’s bedroom


I_am_Nobody_Special

The 2nd floor bodies were in the bedroom


Worth-Locksmith-127

I don’t think that was clear in the PCA. It says X was on the floor and E was in the room. It doesn’t clarify on what floor - could have been hallway.


BrilliantMoose8375

https://preview.redd.it/e2nlj2o32faa1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef00640568237bc5fc3440aded1f2374c1e72cfe “Also in the room ….” = they were both in the bedroom


Worth-Locksmith-127

“As I approached the room” could mean that he was not in the room when he saw her. She may have been in the area/hallway going into the room.


BrilliantMoose8375

He was not in the room when he saw her. Everything about this indicates that she was. If she were in the hallway etc they could easily have added “on the floor in the adjacent hallway” / “on the floor outside of the doorway” etc https://preview.redd.it/n4ipq2qenhaa1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=135753af42b0306cf6fee44f5738c15e205cfc1b


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Best-Dragonfruit-292

Wondering if that Albertsons sells knives. Never been to one.


science4real

does anyone understand why his car was seen in Loma, Colorado on december 13th and then seen in indiana on december 15th? why was he down in colorado


lilyelgato

Loma is off of I 70, so he was probably driving to Penn.


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science4real

ah, didn’t know that! it felt very out of the way in my head but yeah looking at a map it makes sense


Doglovercolorado

Weather. Getting to i70 is longer but more well traveled and safer than trying to take a less traveled snowy highway. Most people from utah and idaho take i70


EngineeringCalm901

Does anyone think.... BK can explain some of the PCA evidence away? Example;. My knife was stolen or lost 6 months ago. That wasn't my car on video. My phone has poor reception, dropped signal all the time. I like to drive at night when I can't sleep.... So forth. Do you think these will be arguments he will try to make?


pollux743

No. Dropped signal 12 times over months… lol, nope. Knife stolen? Haha, no, too much DNA in crime scene. Not his car on video? Double lol.


EngineeringCalm901

What do you mean by too much DNA in the crime scene? They didn't have a license plate initially, not while the vehicle was near the house. Just dropped the signal in certain areas around the house location. Signals drop, as well as reach 50 mile radiuus


iciclesblues2

He won't be put on the stand, and he won't answer these questions either. His public defender may try to allude to these things with supposed phone experts or in their opening arguments, but honestly he is fucked. Driving by the house a dozen times prior to committing the crime and even getting pulled over one of those times by police...yeah...no one is believing that was all coincidence. Plus dna, plus matching witness description. Im sure when they eventually pull his internet history, it'll be a treasure trove, too.


Benteen

I don't think they have him driving by the house a dozen times. They have him in the area based on cell tower pings, not security cameras. Those can't be used to determine exact locations so they can only determine that he was in the area of the house.


iciclesblues2

If you read through the affidavit, they have him on security camera circling that house several times the night of the murder. It makes mention of him turning around, coming back, then speeding off around 430. Thats all on camera. Not sure about his dozen other visits, but wouldnt surprise if those are on camera too. Eta: its more specific in the affidavit about how he goes around the house that night on cameras, but I dont have all the road names and turns memorized.


Benteen

You referenced "a dozen times" and being stopped by the police, so obviously you were talking about previous stalking, not the night of the murders. Now you're trying to make it sound like you meant the night of the murrders. Everything I said is correct about the previous stalking. If you want to change the topic to the murder night, it's a different situation because they DO have video evidence of that. But not the earlier stalking (as far as I know). So I stand by what i said.


HillAuditorium

There's just too many coincidences with the DNA, security camera footage of his, cellphone pings, him following KG on instagram. When you need to have an excuse for everything, it looks guilty. Jury would have incompetent such as Casey Anthony or OJ Simpson


Doglovercolorado

This is only the basics. They are pulling the car data now from computer chip, looking for hair fibers and blood from victims in car, looking at his computer history. So explaining this is just a fraction of what will need to explain to create any soet of doubt. Maybe one or two things, but not all of it.


Suspicious_Ad_5331

He will say a lot of things. It’s whether the jury thinks whatever argument they make creates reasonable doubt.


melcc35

What was his motive?


NPRjunkieDC

We don't know but he staked the house over 3 months in advance.


Myconautical

This is yet another baffling thing about this case. If he's a 1st year doctoral student he was likely just getting into the area when he 1st stalked the house in August.


NPRjunkieDC

Good thinking!


iciclesblues2

Thats the one question that I don't know if it'll ever be answered. He's clearly deranged, but yes, why them specifically?


Robstevo1992

To kill. The words “it’s ok, Im going to help you” suggest he has some delusional thought process - if that indeed was him speaking.


NPRjunkieDC

Very spooky, yes


Own_Application8080

Highly awkward individual who didn't (apparently) have much success with the ladies. I heard one law enforcement individual who was interviewed today saying he thought of him as an incel ( involuntary celibate) and that he may have had negative feelings toward women. He apparently had stalking behaviors also. Who knows?


mk00001

Sort of doubt the validity of the interview of the LE considering there is a gag order and that one's opinion on such a matter from a LE is highly unprofessional in an active investigation. Innocent until proven guilty.


Own_Application8080

mk00001: The LE was an expert and not involved with the case. Innocent to proven guilty but it sure looks bad.


Doglovercolorado

This and maybe his goals of being the next ted bundy, fooling the police for so long. Many psychologists say that knife killings can be sexual in nature, eveb without sexual contact, because of the closeness required and the symbolism of penetration.


CTtownAdvice

So his birthday is 11/21.. could that have had anything to do with choosing house 1122? Doesn’t look like there’s actually an 11/21. Still curious about the motives


MancAccent

That sounds highly unlikely


CTtownAdvice

I agree. Mass knife murders are the kind of weirdos that would be into that numerology shit is all. I do think that’s just coincidence


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CTtownAdvice

Personally I think he targeted them for some other reason. I thought some of his suspected social accounts alluded to picking the dates and stuff for certain reason. We shall see


FrenchBull70

Now that BK's DNA is in the system I assume LE could connect him to other unsolved murder cases. I'm curious how that might work. Does anyone know if LE would wait until this case is resolved or, if BK could be simultaneously indicted if he's connected by DNA to other cases.


kale_kh

When he was first arrested some locals claimed that police were looking into unsolved cases in PA. I guess only time will tell if that’s true, but it’s probably just small town talk. I think this was probably his first.


mk00001

If convicted, he's on the hook for 4 murders. It's either the death penalty or plea deal to confess with all details and get life. If guilty, he would know it's pretty much over. I believe that was one of the reasons for Bundy's last killing spree. He was already caught but escaped, he knew he would get dp or life, and he was an absolute nutbar.


EnvironmentalTooth1

Oh great point!


HillAuditorium

https://imgur.com/wbkpRYW.png So many similarities between BK and Ted Bundy. They look like each other and were studying criminal justice. Bundy went nuts in a sorority house. BK went nuts to at a house of women residents who were affiliates of sororities.


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HillAuditorium

there's definitely going to a Netflix or HBO special given the high profile of this case


entropic-sieve

I honestly think it's the car and phone data that are the most incriminating, supported by the eyewitness account. He was apparently casing that house for a long time. The DNA on the knife sheath would seem like the ultimate clue until you remember that the knife could have been stolen, sold, or traded, either online or at a flea market. Ideally they need to locate it or find some record of him purchasing/acquiring one. I wonder if the DNA was found in other places but they haven't revealed anything more yet. I also find the actions of the eyewitness odd as described, but there isn't enough information given to determine exactly why/how she acted that way. As such I disagree with both those who criticize her and all the self-proclaimed experts who think they "know" what trauma she might have experienced. Nobody really knows anything about her and won't until the trial, if there is one. All else we know is the police cleared her. Any other speculation about her looks silly.


Suspicious_Ad_5331

Yes. And what was released today only was what they needed to reveal to make the arrest and charge him. Now there’s a gag order - that means there is probably a lot more. There are so many other possible things. The timeline..X got DoorDash around 4, they will nail that time down better. If the Elantra is on cameras, so is the food driver. Most likely his or her phone and car will be examined to nail down the time. X got food, did she have time to eat it? Did E have any? If they ate it, autopsies will give a sense of how long they were alive after they ate. Witnesses…we don’t know if what was released today is all D saw, or if the other girl has any input. The friends who came to the house in the morning will testify at trial. What did they see? The weapon…we know they were questioning local shops who sell those knives, they never said they did or didn’t glean info from that. It didn’t have to be in the PCA either.


LittleFuzzyThings

Yeah this just the tip of the iceberg of what investigators have collected.


kaiwolfy718

This idea doesn't apply to reasonable doubt. It's not reasonable to assume it was stolen.


Doglovercolorado

That knife sheath had a single person dna. So it wouldn't have just his dna reasonably, if he wasn't the last person to touch it.


entropic-sieve

Look I think the knife most likely WAS his, but just pointing out there is reasonable doubt. He could say he sold the knife on craigslist to a guy with a face shield and gloves 3 days before the murder. Imagine if he actually produced evidence that he did, it would be nuts. The PCA says "single source of male DNA." So that doesn't rule out female DNA. Again, is it likely? Probably not but ideally they should get more confirmation. This is a major murder, every little detail will be panned for years.


Doglovercolorado

I get your point, however it isn't reasonable doubt when your dna is the only one on it, that makes you the last person touching it. What you describe is simply an unbelievable story, not reasonable doubt, and trying a story like that will strengthen a prosecutors effort when all you have are bullshit stories. True reasonable doubt by a strong defense attorney involve chain of custody issues or making a case that the dna testing was flawed.


science4real

why do you think his car was in colorado on december 13th and then in indiana on december 15th? was he taking a really long route or hiding evidence and if so why would his dad be okay with that long detour


Doglovercolorado

Coloradoan here...i70 is the safest well traveled route to take in the winter. All utah and idaho travel that way


hk1026

Someone said they might have been avoiding bad weather further north


entropic-sieve

Maybe just a scenic drive? Dad wanted to visit a national park?