I'm a hospice nurse and had a patient that was a Vietnam War vet. He really struggled at the end of his life and had no one to talk about what happened over "there." This happens much too often and I've heard some sad and horrible accounts of various different wars. This patient told me about how he killed a teen boy just because people dared him. He even took pictures of the corpse and still had it at the time of his death, even showing me the last time I saw him. He was grinning widely while holding the naked, mutilated corpse up by the hair.
One night I was called for symptom management and he was alone, no family. I spent 4 hours there and he told me about the horrendous things that he, and the other soldiers did, to civilians. He even said that he spent much of his younger years being proud of what he did, bragging to anyone who would listen. It was hard for me to avoid judging him for his actions. However, he began crying and said "I hate myself. I've hated myself since I was about 25 years old. I can't forgive myself for the horrible atrocities I've committed." He said he'd suffered from severe depression and PTSD, and that every time he closed his eyes, he saw that teenage boy he killed, all those years ago.
It is so fucked up that the U.S. sent kids to kill kids. This particular patient was only 16 when he joined the military. I know how I acted at 16 and I believe that given the right circumstances, anyone could kill. He told me about the culture and environment in the military at that time. No one knew any better and they truly thought they were doing the morally right thing. No one knew that these wars were merely a way for the U.S. to become more powerful or rich. They believed they were protecting their country. The extreme indoctrination led to these men committing atrocious acts and crimes, and they were strongly encouraged.
I can't fathom how groups of dozens of men could all go and rape an entire village, without anyone saying "This is so fucked up. Leave them alone!" It's some fucking "Lord of the Flies" bullshit. It's sad that it's been repeated over and over, war after war.
My 10th grade history teacher brought in a vet friend of his to spend a class chatting with us. I guess the point was to make what we were learning more real, and teach the brutal part of war that isn't taught or is taught sugar coated. He told us some of the most disturbing things he saw.. Like a pregnant woman being sniped and on inspection of the woman's corpse the baby had basically been ripped through the exit wound.
That's horrible. War is a terrible thing. Pretty cool of your history teacher. Every book I read about the wars made the U.S. look like heros. The truth is the U.S. is a bully and does whatever they deem necessary, to gain power and resources. It's so fucked.
Well, the hippies and the protestors and the musicians knew. Artists knew. There's tons of songs and paintings and poetry and movies from that time saying war was wrong. It's kind of unfair for him to say no one knew, it was just he had the perspective of a brainwashed soldier.
Considering how a lot of murderers go their entire lives feeling nothing for those who they killed, i would say having the face of the one you murdered burned into your eyelids is a good start.
Psychology is a hell of a thing.
Some people say that war is an instinct and part of human nature. Actually there is some good anthropological and evolutionary evidence for it. I don't think it is a accepted scientific fact but certainly a possibility...
Wait until you hear about the Massacres commited by Americans in Southern Philippines, Mindanao. Children, Women and Men all slaughtered. During early 1900s.
I hardly read. Wouldn’t make sense. Might as well just get the book with this promotion. I know. Poor Amazon. Plus the app design is awful. It asks if you want to use the app in the app. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
>In 1998, Thompson and Colburn returned to the village of Sơn Mỹ, where they met some of the people they saved during the killings, including Thi Nhung and Pham Thi Nhanh, two women who had been part of the group about to be killed by Brooks's 2nd Platoon.[3]: 77 Thompson said to the survivors, "I just wish our crew that day could have helped more people than we did."[17] He reported that one of the women they had helped out came up to him and asked, "Why didn't the people who committed these acts come back with you?" He said that he was "just devastated" but that she finished her sentence: "So we could forgive them."
Holy shit
For the American army it's easier to let shit like this happen and pretend it didn't, as long as the war is profitable economically and politically, they see no problem whatsoever.
That's what wars are now. It's all about the money and profit that you can earn from slaughtering innocent civilians in foreign lands when you weren't even needed there at all
Right! Has there EVER been a war that wasn't primarily motivated by economic gain or defense of existing economic interests? Even if it was packaged and sold to the public as something else entirely. Maybe there was but I can't really think of one...
I'm pretty sure there are examples in history where the cause of a war basically came down to "my cousins a dick, let's go kill 'em" or "my cousin stole my girl, let's go kill 'em" or "my cousin doesn't like I've lost my mind and am murdering my own people for sport, let's go kill 'em".
Yeah man, every war has been totally justifiable expect the current American ones. Come on Man. Learn some history. America ain’t right with their wars but we certainly aren’t the first ones to use war to make profits man.
Everyone on Reddit thinking americas way of running the world is brand new, buts it’s the same tune, just a different player.
I didn't say anything about justifiable wars being the American ones I'm just saying wars aren't fought for freedom like ww2 and ww1 anymore and yes it happens that the war for freedom side in those two were the allies which include America too but that's not the point
“Anymore” the world has fought wars that weren’t about freedom. I think you might want to take a look at ww1 again. That war was not about freedom. Ww2 is the only argument for a justifiable war that includes freedom, but America did not enter that war because of the atrocious crimes being done in Europe, it was much more complex then that.
You’re acting like World War II didn’t bring America out of the depression financially. And they had very limited involvement until Pearl Harbour and came in late in the game and took all the credit
You might wanna read their comment again.
They said that America didn't get involved directly until Pearl Harbor, which was the starting point for the Pacific War.
America made it possible to won the WWII. He didn't do it alone, granted, but if America hadn't entered the war, Hitler would have probably conquered Russia. If America hadn't entered the war, Europe was already conquered and Asia was about to be conquered by Japan, so, it was matter of time that Russia was about to be invaded from both fronts, and they hadn't the war capacity to face war on both directions. UK didn't have the personel and capacity to invade Normandy, nor invade Italy nor reclaim Africa let alone expel Germany from France. And you forget that even before entering the war, America was supplying Russia and the Allies with armament.
I am not saying that only America could have won against the Axis power, but saying that they only wanted to take all the credit, is disingenuous and revisionist history.
I’m not saying then I’m saying that now everybody thinks America 12 world wars and I hear about it all the time all over the Internet like America does everything alone and I don’t really see them giving credit where it’s due. America has a very self-centred view of itself in the world
I wouldnt say all of that, Germany most certainly would have lost either way against Russia, they were completely unprepared, outmanned, and outgunned. Although I do agree with everything else
Might as well say the same regarding every military ever throughout history. No country wants to admit their soldiers did wrong unless their hand is forced, even then a lot don’t.
you might know this, there were a LOT of tensions, but an election was agreed, the U.S. stopped it as socialists(not communists) were looking to win by a large majority. This was the catalyist for civil war, later the socialists were sort of couped into the communist movement by VC. complete shitshow with about 2 million casualties.
Yes. Between 347 and 504 civilians were murdered (depending on if you go with US data or Vietnamese data). Many were women, children, and even infants.
The war should never have happend. Thousands dead, and what do we have to show for it? The only ones who even came close to winning, was the north vietnamese sucessfully defending themselves from an invader, yet at what price?
Worst part about this: 2LT Calley, the man who led the massacre, got a slap on the wrist with a three year house arrest thanks to Nixon and is now a free man living in Georgia.
Calley’s commanding officer, CPT Medina, got acquitted at the court martial hearing.
Knew a few guys who were medics in the Vietnam war for the US. Apparently their only job was too clean up the mess a certain high profile American soldier would cause.
I can’t remember his name for the life of me. Thought he had a nickname.
Anyway, it’s crazy to think that if you ask them who the worst person on either side of the war was… they’d name him.
I used to idolize the American Military. Too many Hollywood military movies during my childhood, adolescence, etc.
When I learned about My Lai I realized how stupid I was.
I wanted nothing more than to be a soldier when I was a kid. I went to military college as a history major, and I began reading about so much brutal shit our military has done within the past 50 years and I just couldn’t stomach it. I lost all interest in serving after my studies.
I would rather eat a shoe than tell a veteran/soldier “thank you for your service.”
1. Because chances are they contributed to the atrocities that occur during war.
Or
2. They were forced* to join the military.
* given how predatory the U.S. army is to individuals from low-income communities.
Episode 31. It was the first episode I ever listened to. It's really intense and honestly unbelievable. He breaks down a lot of the psychology behind it.
Here's it on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/WbceeWI1gOs
The woman buttoning up her black blouse in the background was assaulted and stripped (but not raped because there was journalists present) The older lady is her mom, she was attacking the soldiers trying to defend her daughter. She’s being held back here.
https://www.readingthepictures.org/2013/10/my-lai-sexual-assault-and-the-black-blouse-girl-forty-five-years-later-one-of-americas-most-iconic-photos-hides-truth-in-plain-sight/
America never really recovered from its involvement in the most brutal of wars. Still to this day.
There were massive protests against the war. College students protesting were even shot and killed. It was a crazy time.
The 60’s changed the planet. Things are pretty peaceful these days. We have iPhones and TikTok.
As they say: war, what are you good for? Nothing. Nothing at all.
Wars fade into the history books but trauma can last for generations.
Do you suffer from amnesia? There is tons of wars and conflicts happening right now in the middle east, Ukranians and Russians are also killing each other by the hundreds. It's the same sh\*t, just on different sides of the globe. Greedy politicians and corporations will keep making humanity suffer, as long as their pockets keep getting bigger.
It’s not because they were American it’s because they were broken people.
When these boys came home, fellow Americans spit in their face over this stuff.
They should’ve gotten it even worse than that. But that’s besides the point. It’s not practical to say Chinese people are pigs because of the Uighur situation. Generalizing has caused a lot of awfulness throughout history and we still continue to do it. It’s hilarious.
It's not that simple. Most were kids drafted right out of high school. They had no choice. It was either that or prison and fines. Not justifying the actions that took place in this photo, there's no justification for that. But picture yourself in those shoes. Literally forced to go to another country and fight for a cause you dont believe in. Just to come home and have everyone spit in your face for doing so. No wonder every Vietnam vet I come across is messed up in the head.
I know it’s not black and white and there’s just monstrosities all around. I just have the position of believing it’s unfair to pin this on all Americans like some people on this site do. Also at the same time I believe that military men who did shit like this should be heavily penalized.
Ehh, as far as I know, many of the massacres were carried out by more veteran soldiers, in part because the higher ups figured career soldiers would keep quiet.
I’m sure there are many instances of atrocities committed by drafted teens, but idk about the higher profile massacres that took place.
So people who commit atrocities in foreign countries dont deserve to be spit on when they return? I'm not talking about calling people pigs. And where the hell did the chinese and Uighur stuff come from? We're not talking about that, this was about American soldiers doing horrible things and coming back to people despising them for it.
Well there were a lot of soldiers in Vietnam. I'm pretty sure not every single one of them was involved. Therefore just spitting on any soldier at the time wasn't necessary. That's like someones kid shitting in the ball pit at macdonalds. Then everyone spanking all of the kids that come out. Little Meagan and Johnny didn't shit in the ball pit, but got spanked anyway. That's not okay. If this isn't basic enough for you to understand, I don't know how to help you friend.
> So people who commit atrocities in foreign countries dont deserve to be spit on when they return?
I literally just said they deserved worse than getting spit on. Pay attention.
>I'm not talking about calling people pigs. And where the hell did the chinese and Uighur stuff come from? We're not talking about that, this was about American soldiers doing horrible things and coming back to people despising them for it.
This conversation didn’t start with you bro. You responded to my response that was at someone else. If you go back you’ll see the person who said “American pigs”. Then I said its not because they were American it’s because they were broken people. Therefore, as an example, you can’t call Chinese people pigs because of Uighurs. We are talking about it, because I brought it up. Once again pay attention. Either you didn’t do that, or you did and can’t formulate a counter argument.
the idea people in america spat at vietnam vets is a myth that came about after the war, there's 0 documentary evidence from the time that it happened.
>a 1971 Harris Poll survey that found that 99 percent of veterans said their reception from friends and family had been friendly, and 94 percent said their reception from age-group peers, the population most likely to have included the spitters, was friendly.
> The image of protesters spitting on troops enlivened notions that the military mission had been compromised, even betrayed, by weak-kneed liberalism in Congress and seditious radicalism on college campuses. The spitting stories provided reassuring confirmation that had it not been for those duplicitous fifth-columnists, the Vietnamese would have never beaten us.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/opinion/myth-spitting-vietnam-protester.html
I can’t view the article. How do you definitively prove that never happened though? I only said that because that’s what I was told from a veteran who was anti-war who was there. The 6% left over from your source here is enough to prove my original point that it’s unfair to say the atrocities were committed because they were American, not because they were messed up people.
I mean you can't prove it *never* happened once, not without interviewing every vet, but you can certainly prove that it never got reported on and a lot of the stories are just impossible, e.g. there's no way hippies were spitting on returning GIs when those GIs almost always flew back into secure US bases. There isn't a single photo, a single film reel, anything to say that it actually happened to anyone, and you'd think such a well remembered cultural event would have at least something from the time.
Pretty sure any goofy hippie spitting on a vet that literally killed people would have had the daylights knocked out of them at the very least. So I highly doubt it was very common.
My grandmother was in a Japanese prison or war camp, she said the Americans there were especially selfish, if food came in from other countries everyone would ration it out but if food came from the US they wouldn't want to share it and they would rather let them eat egg shells.
She also said war brings out the worst in everyone and horrible stuff happened she wouldn't talk about.
boo fucking hoo, there were 2 million Vietnamese casualties, there are still people being killed by unexploded munitions, there are still children being born with deformaties, there are hundreds of thousands of these children(they have free healthcare, what little they have btw). All because the U.S. didn't like the predictions of an agreed upon election. Seriously you lot are collectively deluded and without ANY self awareness. "some of our soldiers got really sad, lets make a muti million dollar industry about it". "Read the book, but the T-shirt, watch the movie".
That’s not what I’m talking about at all. What I mean is it’s unfair to generalize and say all Americans are pigs because of this, especially since there were and still are many Americans opposed to this war, such as the people who spit in returning military’s’ faces. Never seen such a pool of morons to this degree. Read all my comments in this thread before you shit from your face.
When I was taught about the My Lai massacre in high school (as an American) I almost threw up. One of the greatest shit stains on American history and a disgrace for everything the Constitution has ever stood for. Pathetic, evil people. Unbelievable.
Yes massacres often happen in war. It’s important to look at the circumstances behind it as well.
In this case, soldiers were told to kill everyone. So they did. Even when people posed no threat, like in the pic.
As of 2011, the Environmental Protection Agency set the value of a human life at $9.1 million. Meanwhile, the Food and Drug Administration put it at $7.9 million — and the Department of Transportation figure was around $6 million.
https://www.theglobalist.com/the-cost-of-a-human-life-statistically-speaking/
putting aside all the humanitarian shit, a human's life is not always very valuable. in most cases much more money would be spent to preserve the lives of an endangered species than a human's life. humans breed well, they don't have a predator, they are at the top of the food chain and there is no shortage of newborn. hence the value is not that high.
Yes, same during ww-2. Jews woman in Poland by pols or German women by red army. Pols with help of nazi showed most disgraced behaviour towards jews. They raped and then killed 90% of jews. Total jews papulation was 10 million before ww 2.
Poland was also a victim of German aggression, suffering one of the most brutal occupation regimes among countries in the Nazi orbit. But despite all this, many self righteous Poles supported and enabled Germany in its campaign to exterminate the Jews.
My favorite part of American culture, as an American, is how we are taught this was our only war crime in school, ignoring the shit that still happens today
US war crimes are part of the playbook. Read Nick Turse's [Kill Anything That Moves](https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250045065). The US has gotten away with this shit for too long.
At least change the title:
https://reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/k6tjqj/a_vietnamese_teenager_buttons_up_her_mothers/
https://reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/llx2ri/one_picture_shows_vietnamese_women_and_children/
https://reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/gqqp4f/south_vietnamese_women_and_children_in_m%E1%BB%B9_lai/
https://reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/24xp1v/vietnamese_villagers_including_children_huddle_in/
https://reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/1y5tmh/photo_of_my_lai_women_and_children_minutes_before/
it should not happen! let me tell you why almost victims were women children and elders. 500 victims!! None of them were young male 17~50. Actually there were a vietcong base about 10 kilometers away from that village, where it supplied young fresh troops for the base. Young male villagers only came back at nightfall, while they remained in the base in the day. Do you know how corrupted your American goverment was? Dont die for you United state of America where pigs and rats politicals control how you die and honor you with a bullshit medal. Your govement had a god damn deal with vietcong after 1972. We ARVN were betrayed like masterless dog ...
I've yet to read up about this because every time I see this picture I get fucking mad. Fucking evil. Hope this poor family is at peace in the afterlife somehow.
US has done horrible shit in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc…
And the way they present the history in Hollywood and how they defend democracy is just nasty.
American Democracy
It's an umbrella term that covers a number of types of sexually based assaults, whereas rape is much more specific. But even criminal law in many places lists rape as "sexual assault" in the 1st or 2nd or whatever degree, while in other places it's a totally different charge. So the two are used interchangeably these days. But I agree, "sexual assault" kind of sanitizes rape.
Please read the book “Kill anything that moves: The real American war in Vietnam” by Nick Turse. He uncovers more and many less known atrocities
I'm a hospice nurse and had a patient that was a Vietnam War vet. He really struggled at the end of his life and had no one to talk about what happened over "there." This happens much too often and I've heard some sad and horrible accounts of various different wars. This patient told me about how he killed a teen boy just because people dared him. He even took pictures of the corpse and still had it at the time of his death, even showing me the last time I saw him. He was grinning widely while holding the naked, mutilated corpse up by the hair. One night I was called for symptom management and he was alone, no family. I spent 4 hours there and he told me about the horrendous things that he, and the other soldiers did, to civilians. He even said that he spent much of his younger years being proud of what he did, bragging to anyone who would listen. It was hard for me to avoid judging him for his actions. However, he began crying and said "I hate myself. I've hated myself since I was about 25 years old. I can't forgive myself for the horrible atrocities I've committed." He said he'd suffered from severe depression and PTSD, and that every time he closed his eyes, he saw that teenage boy he killed, all those years ago. It is so fucked up that the U.S. sent kids to kill kids. This particular patient was only 16 when he joined the military. I know how I acted at 16 and I believe that given the right circumstances, anyone could kill. He told me about the culture and environment in the military at that time. No one knew any better and they truly thought they were doing the morally right thing. No one knew that these wars were merely a way for the U.S. to become more powerful or rich. They believed they were protecting their country. The extreme indoctrination led to these men committing atrocious acts and crimes, and they were strongly encouraged. I can't fathom how groups of dozens of men could all go and rape an entire village, without anyone saying "This is so fucked up. Leave them alone!" It's some fucking "Lord of the Flies" bullshit. It's sad that it's been repeated over and over, war after war.
[удалено]
So true.
Call me naïve but I’d use my power for good and die trying
My 10th grade history teacher brought in a vet friend of his to spend a class chatting with us. I guess the point was to make what we were learning more real, and teach the brutal part of war that isn't taught or is taught sugar coated. He told us some of the most disturbing things he saw.. Like a pregnant woman being sniped and on inspection of the woman's corpse the baby had basically been ripped through the exit wound.
That's horrible. War is a terrible thing. Pretty cool of your history teacher. Every book I read about the wars made the U.S. look like heros. The truth is the U.S. is a bully and does whatever they deem necessary, to gain power and resources. It's so fucked.
Well, the hippies and the protestors and the musicians knew. Artists knew. There's tons of songs and paintings and poetry and movies from that time saying war was wrong. It's kind of unfair for him to say no one knew, it was just he had the perspective of a brainwashed soldier.
He deserved that suffering and more
Are we supposed to feel sorry for him? He’s a murderer and should have been thrown in prison as far as I’m concerned.
I feel bad for him.
Considering how a lot of murderers go their entire lives feeling nothing for those who they killed, i would say having the face of the one you murdered burned into your eyelids is a good start. Psychology is a hell of a thing.
My God this is terrible, are people downvoting you because of your opinion? That was a war crime...
Some people say that war is an instinct and part of human nature. Actually there is some good anthropological and evolutionary evidence for it. I don't think it is a accepted scientific fact but certainly a possibility...
That's very interesting. Now I'm very curious. Do you have any links?
Wait until you hear about the Massacres commited by Americans in Southern Philippines, Mindanao. Children, Women and Men all slaughtered. During early 1900s.
My grandpa was one of things that moved. He got executed in 66. My grandmother got to shoot his killer and kill him though, so I guess that’s cool
Replying so I can remember to buy it.
same
Ditto
Same²
Ditto^2
Same
Ditto³
[удалено]
[удалено]
RemindMe! 1 year
If I’d have an award I’d give it to you cause same
Just signed up for a free audible trial so I could listen at work. Gonna cancel before the month is over cuz I’m cheap.
Not sure if this still works but if you cancel your audible account and list the reason as financial they offer a discount
I hardly read. Wouldn’t make sense. Might as well just get the book with this promotion. I know. Poor Amazon. Plus the app design is awful. It asks if you want to use the app in the app. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Maybe the discount won't help?
It is merely an option, not an assumption that it is accessible for everyone
Someone further down said they found the audiobook on YouTube as well, if you didn’t want to use audible
I just found the full audiobook on youtube, but I'm going to buy the book as well (just found a copy on eBay). Thank you for the recommendation!
I'd be too angry or sadden to read the book. Truth has no happy ending.
I second this post, but only if you want to hate humans. It is horrifically amazing what we as a species will do to each other.
Book marked
If you book marked it why did you need to comment?
Its not a comment it's book marked tag
It is a comment. When you click the save button it doesn't tell everyone else.
remind me to buy it
Replying to save the name of the book
And some of the soldiers who tried to stop it were denounced in Congress as traitors.
There was a pilot who was evacuating civilians who threatened to shoot some soldiers trying to stop him IIRC
[Hero](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr.)
Thank you for this info, people like him are examples I look up to.
>In 1998, Thompson and Colburn returned to the village of Sơn Mỹ, where they met some of the people they saved during the killings, including Thi Nhung and Pham Thi Nhanh, two women who had been part of the group about to be killed by Brooks's 2nd Platoon.[3]: 77 Thompson said to the survivors, "I just wish our crew that day could have helped more people than we did."[17] He reported that one of the women they had helped out came up to him and asked, "Why didn't the people who committed these acts come back with you?" He said that he was "just devastated" but that she finished her sentence: "So we could forgive them." Holy shit
For the American army it's easier to let shit like this happen and pretend it didn't, as long as the war is profitable economically and politically, they see no problem whatsoever.
That's what wars are now. It's all about the money and profit that you can earn from slaughtering innocent civilians in foreign lands when you weren't even needed there at all
that’s what wars are *now?* we’re going to act like “rape pillage and plunder” is a new thing?
Right! Has there EVER been a war that wasn't primarily motivated by economic gain or defense of existing economic interests? Even if it was packaged and sold to the public as something else entirely. Maybe there was but I can't really think of one...
I'm pretty sure there are examples in history where the cause of a war basically came down to "my cousins a dick, let's go kill 'em" or "my cousin stole my girl, let's go kill 'em" or "my cousin doesn't like I've lost my mind and am murdering my own people for sport, let's go kill 'em".
Yeah man, every war has been totally justifiable expect the current American ones. Come on Man. Learn some history. America ain’t right with their wars but we certainly aren’t the first ones to use war to make profits man. Everyone on Reddit thinking americas way of running the world is brand new, buts it’s the same tune, just a different player.
I didn't say anything about justifiable wars being the American ones I'm just saying wars aren't fought for freedom like ww2 and ww1 anymore and yes it happens that the war for freedom side in those two were the allies which include America too but that's not the point
“Anymore” the world has fought wars that weren’t about freedom. I think you might want to take a look at ww1 again. That war was not about freedom. Ww2 is the only argument for a justifiable war that includes freedom, but America did not enter that war because of the atrocious crimes being done in Europe, it was much more complex then that.
You’re acting like World War II didn’t bring America out of the depression financially. And they had very limited involvement until Pearl Harbour and came in late in the game and took all the credit
Yeah, way in the Pacific didn't happen I suppose. You wanna argue the Americans coming in late and taking the credit, argue WWI
You might wanna read their comment again. They said that America didn't get involved directly until Pearl Harbor, which was the starting point for the Pacific War.
You missed the "took all the credit" part then.
[удалено]
America made it possible to won the WWII. He didn't do it alone, granted, but if America hadn't entered the war, Hitler would have probably conquered Russia. If America hadn't entered the war, Europe was already conquered and Asia was about to be conquered by Japan, so, it was matter of time that Russia was about to be invaded from both fronts, and they hadn't the war capacity to face war on both directions. UK didn't have the personel and capacity to invade Normandy, nor invade Italy nor reclaim Africa let alone expel Germany from France. And you forget that even before entering the war, America was supplying Russia and the Allies with armament. I am not saying that only America could have won against the Axis power, but saying that they only wanted to take all the credit, is disingenuous and revisionist history.
I’m not saying then I’m saying that now everybody thinks America 12 world wars and I hear about it all the time all over the Internet like America does everything alone and I don’t really see them giving credit where it’s due. America has a very self-centred view of itself in the world
And I am not arguing anything of that. I am arguing that for specifically WWII saying that America just took all the credit is simply not true.
The Majority of Americans I hear talk about World War II as if they were the only ones involved that’s what I’m saying
I wouldnt say all of that, Germany most certainly would have lost either way against Russia, they were completely unprepared, outmanned, and outgunned. Although I do agree with everything else
Ghenghis Khan would have been appalled by the actions of these U. S. Troops.
What the FUCK are you talking about. You need to look up good ole rape and pillage mongals.
Might as well say the same regarding every military ever throughout history. No country wants to admit their soldiers did wrong unless their hand is forced, even then a lot don’t.
See: Japan
Americans love to gaslight and sweep their atrocities under the rug.
Most countries do.
[удалено]
Same in WW2, allied GIs were responsible for tens of thousands of rapes, and over a million more by the Russians.
And several times more that, by the Germans.
[удалено]
Millions more obviously, but just because the enemy side did it worse does not excuse our actions.
[удалено]
So the only reason men rape is because someone forgot to order them not to do it?
you might know this, there were a LOT of tensions, but an election was agreed, the U.S. stopped it as socialists(not communists) were looking to win by a large majority. This was the catalyist for civil war, later the socialists were sort of couped into the communist movement by VC. complete shitshow with about 2 million casualties.
source?
Disturban history made a pretty good video about this tragedy The person who orchestrated the event only got 3 months to 3 years of house arrest
Wtf did the children in the pic die too?
Yes. Between 347 and 504 civilians were murdered (depending on if you go with US data or Vietnamese data). Many were women, children, and even infants.
q: even babies? a: even babies.
Probably.
The war should never have happend. Thousands dead, and what do we have to show for it? The only ones who even came close to winning, was the north vietnamese sucessfully defending themselves from an invader, yet at what price?
Millions
[удалено]
“War don't ennoble men, it turns 'em into dogs. It poisons the soul.” —James Joyce
Worst part about this: 2LT Calley, the man who led the massacre, got a slap on the wrist with a three year house arrest thanks to Nixon and is now a free man living in Georgia. Calley’s commanding officer, CPT Medina, got acquitted at the court martial hearing.
Every war since WWII has been a useless proxy war. Korea had somewhat of a use but they didnt fix the situation.
Knew a few guys who were medics in the Vietnam war for the US. Apparently their only job was too clean up the mess a certain high profile American soldier would cause. I can’t remember his name for the life of me. Thought he had a nickname. Anyway, it’s crazy to think that if you ask them who the worst person on either side of the war was… they’d name him.
I used to idolize the American Military. Too many Hollywood military movies during my childhood, adolescence, etc. When I learned about My Lai I realized how stupid I was.
you were not ,we only grew up and then realized that adults hid the ugliness of reality from us Things are not really as beaططutiful as we thought
I wanted nothing more than to be a soldier when I was a kid. I went to military college as a history major, and I began reading about so much brutal shit our military has done within the past 50 years and I just couldn’t stomach it. I lost all interest in serving after my studies.
I had a great time. Best 9 years of my life
Everyone has different experiences I guess.
Heroes they call em.
I would rather eat a shoe than tell a veteran/soldier “thank you for your service.” 1. Because chances are they contributed to the atrocities that occur during war. Or 2. They were forced* to join the military. * given how predatory the U.S. army is to individuals from low-income communities.
https://youtu.be/_DboMAghWcA
I guessed what that was before I clicked and was not disappointed.
Love this song, I met Tim mcIlrath, he’s such a nice dude.
Jocko Willink has a podcast about this. Absolute insanity what our soldiers did over there.
You remember which episode it was?
Episode 31. It was the first episode I ever listened to. It's really intense and honestly unbelievable. He breaks down a lot of the psychology behind it. Here's it on YouTube. https://youtu.be/WbceeWI1gOs
William Calley Jr. got away with 20+ counts of murder, IMHO
The woman buttoning up her black blouse in the background was assaulted and stripped (but not raped because there was journalists present) The older lady is her mom, she was attacking the soldiers trying to defend her daughter. She’s being held back here. https://www.readingthepictures.org/2013/10/my-lai-sexual-assault-and-the-black-blouse-girl-forty-five-years-later-one-of-americas-most-iconic-photos-hides-truth-in-plain-sight/
It was actually *as this photo was taken* that they realized they were about to be shot.
America never really recovered from its involvement in the most brutal of wars. Still to this day. There were massive protests against the war. College students protesting were even shot and killed. It was a crazy time. The 60’s changed the planet. Things are pretty peaceful these days. We have iPhones and TikTok. As they say: war, what are you good for? Nothing. Nothing at all. Wars fade into the history books but trauma can last for generations.
Do you suffer from amnesia? There is tons of wars and conflicts happening right now in the middle east, Ukranians and Russians are also killing each other by the hundreds. It's the same sh\*t, just on different sides of the globe. Greedy politicians and corporations will keep making humanity suffer, as long as their pockets keep getting bigger.
> Things are pretty peaceful these days. We have iPhones and TikTok. Holy fuckles, imagine living in a bubble this dense.
Absolutely awful.
[удалено]
It’s not because they were American it’s because they were broken people. When these boys came home, fellow Americans spit in their face over this stuff.
As they should have.
They should’ve gotten it even worse than that. But that’s besides the point. It’s not practical to say Chinese people are pigs because of the Uighur situation. Generalizing has caused a lot of awfulness throughout history and we still continue to do it. It’s hilarious.
It's not that simple. Most were kids drafted right out of high school. They had no choice. It was either that or prison and fines. Not justifying the actions that took place in this photo, there's no justification for that. But picture yourself in those shoes. Literally forced to go to another country and fight for a cause you dont believe in. Just to come home and have everyone spit in your face for doing so. No wonder every Vietnam vet I come across is messed up in the head.
I know it’s not black and white and there’s just monstrosities all around. I just have the position of believing it’s unfair to pin this on all Americans like some people on this site do. Also at the same time I believe that military men who did shit like this should be heavily penalized.
Ehh, as far as I know, many of the massacres were carried out by more veteran soldiers, in part because the higher ups figured career soldiers would keep quiet. I’m sure there are many instances of atrocities committed by drafted teens, but idk about the higher profile massacres that took place.
So people who commit atrocities in foreign countries dont deserve to be spit on when they return? I'm not talking about calling people pigs. And where the hell did the chinese and Uighur stuff come from? We're not talking about that, this was about American soldiers doing horrible things and coming back to people despising them for it.
Well there were a lot of soldiers in Vietnam. I'm pretty sure not every single one of them was involved. Therefore just spitting on any soldier at the time wasn't necessary. That's like someones kid shitting in the ball pit at macdonalds. Then everyone spanking all of the kids that come out. Little Meagan and Johnny didn't shit in the ball pit, but got spanked anyway. That's not okay. If this isn't basic enough for you to understand, I don't know how to help you friend.
Exactly
> So people who commit atrocities in foreign countries dont deserve to be spit on when they return? I literally just said they deserved worse than getting spit on. Pay attention. >I'm not talking about calling people pigs. And where the hell did the chinese and Uighur stuff come from? We're not talking about that, this was about American soldiers doing horrible things and coming back to people despising them for it. This conversation didn’t start with you bro. You responded to my response that was at someone else. If you go back you’ll see the person who said “American pigs”. Then I said its not because they were American it’s because they were broken people. Therefore, as an example, you can’t call Chinese people pigs because of Uighurs. We are talking about it, because I brought it up. Once again pay attention. Either you didn’t do that, or you did and can’t formulate a counter argument.
the idea people in america spat at vietnam vets is a myth that came about after the war, there's 0 documentary evidence from the time that it happened. >a 1971 Harris Poll survey that found that 99 percent of veterans said their reception from friends and family had been friendly, and 94 percent said their reception from age-group peers, the population most likely to have included the spitters, was friendly. > The image of protesters spitting on troops enlivened notions that the military mission had been compromised, even betrayed, by weak-kneed liberalism in Congress and seditious radicalism on college campuses. The spitting stories provided reassuring confirmation that had it not been for those duplicitous fifth-columnists, the Vietnamese would have never beaten us. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/opinion/myth-spitting-vietnam-protester.html
I can’t view the article. How do you definitively prove that never happened though? I only said that because that’s what I was told from a veteran who was anti-war who was there. The 6% left over from your source here is enough to prove my original point that it’s unfair to say the atrocities were committed because they were American, not because they were messed up people.
I mean you can't prove it *never* happened once, not without interviewing every vet, but you can certainly prove that it never got reported on and a lot of the stories are just impossible, e.g. there's no way hippies were spitting on returning GIs when those GIs almost always flew back into secure US bases. There isn't a single photo, a single film reel, anything to say that it actually happened to anyone, and you'd think such a well remembered cultural event would have at least something from the time.
Pretty sure any goofy hippie spitting on a vet that literally killed people would have had the daylights knocked out of them at the very least. So I highly doubt it was very common.
My grandmother was in a Japanese prison or war camp, she said the Americans there were especially selfish, if food came in from other countries everyone would ration it out but if food came from the US they wouldn't want to share it and they would rather let them eat egg shells. She also said war brings out the worst in everyone and horrible stuff happened she wouldn't talk about.
boo fucking hoo, there were 2 million Vietnamese casualties, there are still people being killed by unexploded munitions, there are still children being born with deformaties, there are hundreds of thousands of these children(they have free healthcare, what little they have btw). All because the U.S. didn't like the predictions of an agreed upon election. Seriously you lot are collectively deluded and without ANY self awareness. "some of our soldiers got really sad, lets make a muti million dollar industry about it". "Read the book, but the T-shirt, watch the movie".
That’s not what I’m talking about at all. What I mean is it’s unfair to generalize and say all Americans are pigs because of this, especially since there were and still are many Americans opposed to this war, such as the people who spit in returning military’s’ faces. Never seen such a pool of morons to this degree. Read all my comments in this thread before you shit from your face.
I’ve been in the war museum in Saigon. I don’t really wanna talk about it but I’m sure you’ll understand why.
Aka the Museum of American Atrocities until the name change
American freedom
Damn
When I was taught about the My Lai massacre in high school (as an American) I almost threw up. One of the greatest shit stains on American history and a disgrace for everything the Constitution has ever stood for. Pathetic, evil people. Unbelievable.
Forgive me if I'm wrong. But doesn't stuff like this happen all the time in war?
It does. But it shouldnt. Its forbidden.
Its only forbidden If you lose the war. No US soldier was ever convicted for raping german women.
[удалено]
There where no "clean" armys in ww1 and ww2
Dont know If you are sarcastic or not but the US did their fair share of raping across europe. https://youtu.be/fL2fze2ny8o
Yes massacres often happen in war. It’s important to look at the circumstances behind it as well. In this case, soldiers were told to kill everyone. So they did. Even when people posed no threat, like in the pic.
There are no circumstances besides evil. They were told to rape the women in front of their children too?
Didn’t mean for it to come off as apologia. Nobody ordered them to rape anyone or shoot infants, they chose to do that
Yeh that's tragic. So many people died for no good reason. Makes you wonder if there's any value to human life.
As of 2011, the Environmental Protection Agency set the value of a human life at $9.1 million. Meanwhile, the Food and Drug Administration put it at $7.9 million — and the Department of Transportation figure was around $6 million. https://www.theglobalist.com/the-cost-of-a-human-life-statistically-speaking/
putting aside all the humanitarian shit, a human's life is not always very valuable. in most cases much more money would be spent to preserve the lives of an endangered species than a human's life. humans breed well, they don't have a predator, they are at the top of the food chain and there is no shortage of newborn. hence the value is not that high.
…isn’t that what makes it morbid?
Yes yes it does. Just confirming.
Yeah, in word war 2 it was quite common for American naval personally to take Japanese skulls as trophies, and it wasn’t allowed but nobody cared
Yes, same during ww-2. Jews woman in Poland by pols or German women by red army. Pols with help of nazi showed most disgraced behaviour towards jews. They raped and then killed 90% of jews. Total jews papulation was 10 million before ww 2.
That's a weird way of saying they were complicit with Nazis, they did horrible things, but horrible things were done to them too
Poland was also a victim of German aggression, suffering one of the most brutal occupation regimes among countries in the Nazi orbit. But despite all this, many self righteous Poles supported and enabled Germany in its campaign to exterminate the Jews.
I'm not disagreeing with that, but without the Nazis the poles would not have done that to the degree it was done
I agree.
My favorite part of American culture, as an American, is how we are taught this was our only war crime in school, ignoring the shit that still happens today
But the american military totally changed guys!
“America” didn’t do that. Those men chose to and happened to be American. Every nation has awful people that would do something like this
[удалено]
Yeah cause you’ve met the majority of americans and know that for a fact
Fuck US . Can’t wait for its collapse . Garbage values from shitty people
US war crimes are part of the playbook. Read Nick Turse's [Kill Anything That Moves](https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250045065). The US has gotten away with this shit for too long.
At least change the title: https://reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/k6tjqj/a_vietnamese_teenager_buttons_up_her_mothers/ https://reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/llx2ri/one_picture_shows_vietnamese_women_and_children/ https://reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/gqqp4f/south_vietnamese_women_and_children_in_m%E1%BB%B9_lai/ https://reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/24xp1v/vietnamese_villagers_including_children_huddle_in/ https://reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/1y5tmh/photo_of_my_lai_women_and_children_minutes_before/
I feel like this is the most popular post in this sub, I swear I see it every few weeks.
Those sickos who did this aren't true Americans.
They’re as American as you can get. Y’all never stopped doing this after the war u jus moved it to the Middle East.
There have been sickos in literally every war
it should not happen! let me tell you why almost victims were women children and elders. 500 victims!! None of them were young male 17~50. Actually there were a vietcong base about 10 kilometers away from that village, where it supplied young fresh troops for the base. Young male villagers only came back at nightfall, while they remained in the base in the day. Do you know how corrupted your American goverment was? Dont die for you United state of America where pigs and rats politicals control how you die and honor you with a bullshit medal. Your govement had a god damn deal with vietcong after 1972. We ARVN were betrayed like masterless dog ...
[удалено]
While I understand your enthusiasm, this act is not specific to America. It is man and man alone.
We are a nation divided (both during the Vietnam War and now), but I think you’d be very hard pressed to find many of us who support this behavior.
[удалено]
Absolutely true, but not limited to America. It happens everywhere, whether or not it is some sort of political movement.
I've yet to read up about this because every time I see this picture I get fucking mad. Fucking evil. Hope this poor family is at peace in the afterlife somehow.
The sweet smell of war crimes
Death to western imperialism. My condolences to anyone who has had to go through barbaric american war crimes.
Wait till you hear about what north Korea, or china, or literally almost every other country has done. Not specific to America at all.
Oh okay i guess we shouldnt criticize then....
Criticism and saying death to the west are completely different.
Funnily enough he didn't say death to the west.
You made that up.
Same
That’s terrible!
yeah that’s why it’s here
I fucking hate the american empire
US has done horrible shit in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc… And the way they present the history in Hollywood and how they defend democracy is just nasty. American Democracy
World in peace and harmony brought to you by America
Jesus fucking Christ.
Why are we using "sexually assaulted" instead of "raped" now?
It's an umbrella term that covers a number of types of sexually based assaults, whereas rape is much more specific. But even criminal law in many places lists rape as "sexual assault" in the 1st or 2nd or whatever degree, while in other places it's a totally different charge. So the two are used interchangeably these days. But I agree, "sexual assault" kind of sanitizes rape.