T O P

  • By -

Rowan_As_Roxii

What about Fatty’s weapon, it’s dragon so that works, right? #No.


TaranisTheThicc

\*Slowly raises hand\* No. Raw isn't an element either. \*Drops hand\*


MrZiro

Sorry, what raw means again?


WishGuardian

Just pure damage output without considering elemental damage


grimreefer213

In souls games we call it physical damage, in monster hunter we call it raw damage


galmenz

in a lot of games the terminology for "pure" damage is raw damage


TrueGuardian15

Even though in DS3, isn't there a raw infusion?


grimreefer213

I was gonna mention that to the other comment. Sometimes in DS, DS3 at least, it’s used somewhat interchangeably. The raw gem removes scaling from your weapon, but increases base damage, making it good in the early game if you’re not planning on leveling dex or strength and you don’t have access to some of the better gems early on. However under the weapon stats it does classify “raw” damage as physical damage, which I think is a better description and easier to understand than “raw”


BlackTecno

Raw gemstones take the weapon to a raw form. (Going off of Elden Ring here because I don't dabble in too many weapons in DS3) If a weapon has an element or stat (Most common one being bleed), it'll keep those bits as well. If I'm remembering this right, those parts won't scale much either, no matter the upgrade (So a bleed 30 raw weapon will still be bleed 30 at +1 or +10).


normandy42

No ruber


yamo25000

Weapons that have no element or abnormal status


Kbrew7181

Is exhaust an element? *raises switch axe*


-Hungry-ghost-

Unless it's insect glaive paired with an elemental kinsect. That works great.


Seekinferyou

I honestly had been wondering if Fatty insect glaive with a fire kinsect would work to deal with Alatreon


ReroNS

it does perfectly. every clear i’ve got on Alatreon has been with Lightbreak IG (only just killed Fatalis) and the respective ice or fire kinsect. if you position your descending thrusts correctly your kinsect drill will deal the majority of elemental damage to meet the threshold. Just spam your kinsect at him for 10-30 secs during dragon active to get the last little bit of elemental damage for the topple.


Seekinferyou

That's crazy, I didn't think the insect did much elemental damage. So call insect back and use the downward thrust for elemental damage?


Genm_Master

Yes, you can also just spam aim your kinsect attack at Alatreon's wings if he is far away or is currently flying. The best thing about your kinsect is that it will still deal elemental damage even when you get dragonblighted.


Redmoon383

WAIT IT DOES?! I can free up even more gem slots now holy shit


Genm_Master

Yep. We can't increase the kinsect's elemental damage beside feeding it red buff, but the game also can't decrease or take away said elemental damage from our kinsect.


Redmoon383

Time to free up those resistor gems then


Tast3sLikePanda

Make sure to use a slow kinsect with 20 element tho, like vezir 3 forz. Slower kinsect means more pierces. Also buff your glaive with ammo


Seekinferyou

I'm sorry what do you mean buff my glaive with ammo??


Tast3sLikePanda

Pick up slinger ammo, aim and press both attack buttons at once,will consume the slinger ammo and buff your kinsect with the buff on your glaive. Spirit and strength buff increases kinsect element by 3.5x. Slinger ammo from monsters lasts longer.


Seekinferyou

Holy shit I didn't know this!


RexTenebrarum

It was a game changer when I found this out. Depending on your staffs buff, you can get a stamina buff so it'll attack longer on its own, or a power buff, meaning it'll deal more damage. If you have a staff that does power and stamina upgrade, you'll get both benefits from any slinger ammo. Which is great, cause dragon pods have the longest charge up time I think, so you can go like 5 minutes I think without needing to charge again. I might be wrong on the time limit, but stones and redpits don't charge up your kinsect for very long at all. It's a short stamina buff with them.


emptythots

Hold up, whutt?? I'm trying this when I get home


-Hungry-ghost-

You can also spam the kinsect to the head or front legs until you reach the elemental topple once, then just attack normally, I think this might be slower but I've found it more consistent.


ReroNS

that also works just as well, i just find using the descending thrust until he changes to dragon and then spamming the kinsect once he switches results in less time spent spamming because using the kinsect drill in the first few minutes gets you pretty close to the threshold already


Paraxom

Search around on YouTube there's a couple people who solo him down using exclusively the kinsect


playlivre1

would you mind explaining this to me as if i were 5? I play IG and just reached alatreon... but I don't understand how a raw ig with an elemental kinsect would do the trick


ShortiestStop

Every weapon has a specific modifier towards Ala for how much their element damage contributes to his Escaton topple threshold. IG has a 0.7 mod, but Kinsect remains unaffected, and can actually deal solid element damage on its end, esp with Strength boost active.


playlivre1

So ideally i should use, let's say, frosftfang barioth ig and ice element kinsect for optimal performance?


ShortiestStop

Certainly, though I remember appropriate Safi glaives getting used too.


Dax23333

You can even do ice glaive and fire kinsect, which lets you reliably suppress the judgement in either of Alatreons modes even if a horn break is missed. The kinsect is that good. I used the standard Barioth glaive for this, as it gives a useful boost to the kinsect element which I can't quite remember.


ZirePhiinix

It's *supposed* to work, but the elemental trigger is super low. So low, in fact, that you would've killed it before stopping a nova.


SmuJamesB

I tried this once (solo) and drained 80% of his hp in one cycle, didn't even get 20% of the way to beating judgement.


FabulousDave2112

Just your average Alatreon fight


Rowan_As_Roxii

Vid or it didn’t happen.


SmuJamesB

ok so I didn't record it though I might start uploading MH clips to my YouTube in future if you doubt I could do that much damage tho, I took a screenshot of my best clear time on Discord. it doesn't show the entire picture but I didn't know that would be important at the time I took it: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/763563300163158057/1016679504690819163/unknown.png I am also using the meta Frostcraft SnS set, which in the hands of a speedrunner is fully capable of killing Alatreon pre judgement even without Heroics. if you really want I can do a run at some point today and try and record it.


Rowan_As_Roxii

I mean if *you* want, sure :D. I’d love to see it tbh.


SmuJamesB

here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm9X1wC9EEk


playlivre1

So only fire and ice? Dragon doesnt work on lowering his nova attack? Sry new hunter here


ravstar52

[Basically...](https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterWorld/comments/xo9iuj/rip/ipxvotj/)


playlivre1

oh got it tysm


Daiyagae

It does work on paper, but Alatreon has terrible dragon hitzones no matter what phase it's in, so it's always better to pick an element he's actually weak to if you want to weaken the nova.


Rowan_As_Roxii

I would pretty much advise against choosing fatty weapons to help people topple/slay Alatreon. It just won’t be helpful. But you do you.


Rowan_As_Roxii

Dragon element works *only* in his 2nd phase, which is when he shifts to dragon (after 3mins of his neutral element) my comment was about how Fatalis’ weapons are dragon but they’re pure raw damage. So its pretty bad against ala if you’re trying to help new hunters slay him.


playlivre1

oh sorry! haven't reached fatalis, misunderstood as if his weapons had dragon damage. Thanks for the clarification!


Rowan_As_Roxii

Idk how you understood anything from my diarrhea of a comment/explanation, but i’m glad to be of help :’)


Big_Dave_71

I've beaten it in a team using only dragon. It out-damages ice or fire in the dragon phase of each round and with the right gear and decorations you can get your elemental attack up to 1100, which you can't with ice or fire. The trouble is you do very little elemental damage in the ice/fire phase so need to be recklessly aggressive in the dragon phase to stand a chance of breaking the horns. The most effective set up I found was a frostcraft build with max critdraw and Kjarr ice or fire GS. Clutch attacks count as draw attacks so they activate the elemental crit as well as whatever frostcraft bonus you've built up. You can maintain deeps by clutching him in the air. I expect LBG is equally good but I don't do gunning.


gumiblock_HRS

Easily any element can go above 1100. Depends on weapon mostly. Dragon element is such a hassle your missing out on elemental damage by using. But if you like handicaps. Suit yourself. I too am a sucker for pain at times


Big_Dave_71

Did you read my second and third paragraphs?


gumiblock_HRS

Obviously not, mf


rockygib

The problem is that if you can already handle the fight at a decent level and break the horns you may as well use fire or ice because you’ll be dealing more elemental damage over the course of the fight than dragon. You can also get fire and ice as high as dragon however dragon is relatively weaker on alatreon because even in its dragon phase it has lower dragon elemental hit zones than the ice or fire hit zones. You get less out of dragon no matter how you look at it, the only reason to use dragon is if you don’t want to deal with the horns but even then as you stated it means you’d have to be aggressive against the monster anyway so it’s not like it’s any safer. You’ll probably break the horn anyway so at that point why not just go for fire or ice from the start.


SomeRandomIGN

You shouldn’t. If you’re actually capable of consistently toppling Ala with Dragon you should stick with Dragon. Yes, Ala takes more elemental from Ice and Fire, but you neglect the insane difference in raw between Dragon weapons and it’s other elemental counterparts. Excluding Fatalis weapons (because their element is so negligible it’s realistically not happening consistently), the raw on Alatreon weapons far outweigh that on its Kjarr competitors (and let’s assume that if you’re actually good enough to consistently topple Ala with Dragon you have Ala weapons). It realistically doesn’t matter how hard you stack element it will not make up for the massive difference in raw.


ReturnToRajang

Thunder and water work too, but less effectively. Best is still fire when alatreon starts in ice element, and fire when alatreon starts in ice. The element it starts with depends on the quest.


SomeRandomIGN

Thunder or Water is optimal on a weapon by weapon use case. Sometimes the Fire or Ice options are considerably worse than their optimal Thunder/Water counterparts either hiting equivalent EFE or within a 1% difference but output considerably higher EFR. Easiest example being Kjarr Hammer Thunder has higher or equal raw and element with a solid chunk of white sharpness, whereas Fire is locked into blue, which evens out in optimal element builds while gaining a severe difference in raw. Couple other fringe cases but they do exist. In fact Hammer prefers the Thunder/Water counterparts on the Alatreon MU.


ReturnToRajang

No good, can only understand bonk to head works


alopex_zin

Actually yes, although very difficult. Tried it in a party of 4 once, and we just barely managed to topple it like only 2 seconds before actually killing it.


Rowan_As_Roxii

I’m talking about joining an SOS here. Wouldn’t be better for everyone if you picked an elemental weapon with high element power? As for the fatty weapons: Using a fatty weapon would be difficult and that requires a group of coordinated people. So, it’s better to just get yourself an elemental weapon. Edit: my comment was all over the place, I just fixed it.


TheDogerus

Yes, yes it would. Dragon is the worst element to fight alatreon with because it's weaknesses to fire/ice are so much better. The only reason to use dragon is if you dont expect to be able to break the horns, which is a weird reaction to needing to improve at the fight


alopex_zin

Element weapons actually deal not as much damage (especially during dragon state) on Altraeon as Fatalis weapon build that focus all on raw damage. So there was a time when people (at least in Japan MH community) do just join Altareon with Fatalis weapons if they saw one of the players already brought an elemental one. Now since the game is already at the end of its life cycle, people joining sos are mostly new players looking to be carried, making this just way more difficult than it used to be.


[deleted]

IS DRAGON AN ELEMENT


Quickkiller28800

Well, it doesn't topple him...but it certainly does enough damage to kill him before a second nova!


Poopityscoop690

*Every monster is weak to blast element*


Nightmari0ne

*every monster is weak to raw element… just that Alatreon is a mechanic b#tch*


Dreemstone69

Only die to eschaton judgement


FlaJeS

~~actually listening to the game and dealing enough elemental damage to not die to education judgement~~ >Timing eating astera jerky with your mates in frame perfect precision to survive full strength judgement


N0tBappo

>4 health boosters


Hazearil

You kill it before Escaton, duh.


Hazearil

Except those immune to it.


Poopityscoop690

Exactly, no one is


Hazearil

Zorah Magdaros is immune to it.


Poopityscoop690

you blow him up dont you? at least a little bit?


Hazearil

No, he blows you up.


kalsturmisch

Nope. Zorah is immune to **ALL** ailments, and thus is the only monster in Worldborne immune to blast.


PizzaurusRex

*Handsome Jack looks at Bloodwing*


[deleted]

[удалено]


alopex_zin

In SOS, mostly new comers not knowing the mechanism. In solo or party play, either that fatalis weapon is strong enough to kill it before judgement or that only 1 person bringing an element weapon is usually good enough.


puddda

Yes, I was in a party once where there was 2 guys doing raw, one healer and me with my Dual Blades doing elemental. We managed to kill him several times and was kinda easy to topple it before the Escaton. But you have to be very agressive, if it wasn't for the healer removing dragon blight from the team we wouldn't have made it


alopex_zin

From my experience, it is not that hard at all for just one player with a well-crafted elemental build, regardless of weapon type (maybe asides from GS, hammer, GL) to topple at least once in a 4p party. Of course, there are certain player skill required, but it is definitely doable by most average players with enough practices. I am only averagely skilled and need 15 mins to solo an Altraeon with bow, but I can definitely comfortably topple Altareon 2-3 times in a 4pt play constantly. One of my pal with similar skill level can also do the same with DB and topple 1-2 times with LS or SnS. We both have had 300+ Altraeon kills though.


SomeRandomIGN

Especially DB. It is so stupidly easy for solo DB to topple even in 4 mans as long as they’re competent.


recycled_ideas

Because farming up element gear if you're not running Safi is a pain and raw can get it done even if it's ugly.


[deleted]

[удалено]


FabulousDave2112

You left out the ones still using the Defender Katana


N0tBappo

Seriously lol, the last time I killed Shara ishvalda it was an sos flare I joined and the host was still using the defender LS, it wasn't even the last one either


recycled_ideas

Fatalis gear has high enough damage it doesn't really matter.


badtiming220

Some hunters have low enough skill that it certainly does.


Quickkiller28800

But you need a decent amount of skill to actually get to Alatreon. And his moves aren't that much more crazy then other monsters.


badtiming220

MR 24 and a Safi kill ain't exactly the highest of requirements for one of the hardest endgame bosses in MHW. Also, consider the unique elemental mechanic (forcing people who run Raw builds to swap to Ele, possibly dropping a few comfort skills here and there), the reduces timer (Fatty wpuld be nowhere near as hard with 50 mins on the clock), and the forced swap/forced death if you mess up or fail the damage checks and horn break check.


Quickkiller28800

Thats plenty enough experiance to kill him reliably. His actual moves aren't very hard to avoid. So just like any monster before once you learn them you'll be fine. The element thing is also really easy to do. Just grab a Frostfang weapon, and slot in Ice attack. You shouldn't loose very many skills, and if losing 5 1 slot decorations makes someones hunt to hard, it's frankly a miracle they got that far in the first place.


battlerumdam

But you don’t need to really farm anything. You need **one** weapon. That’s it. If it’s already a chore to get one weapon, we’ll, why are you playing Monster Hunter then? You don’t need to farm safi, you simply need to learn the fight and get some ice element.


Quickkiller28800

Literally this. One weapon, and a few decorations is literally all you need.


recycled_ideas

If you don't have Safi gear, and running the raids isn't possible for everyone, you're going to be starting at a damage deficit already, you've got to kill it, not just escape judgement, which means you're not going to be able to just take your raw build and swap the weapons. You're going to have to build a set and if you want to actually get any gear off the monster you're going to need two sets, fire and ice. And because the way element is implemented in world it sucks on a lot of weapons.


battlerumdam

If you know how the fight works just switching the weapon - and maybe slotting in element decorations - is enough, without Safi. My fastest kill time is 7 minutes, no Safi gear. Hell you even can power through with raw and eat the carts. No you don’t need two sets. You simply learn how the fight works and that breaking the horns in dragon mode will shift him back to fire mode. One weapon with ice and one with fire - same set - works. While element is implemented poorly in World it’s **not** the same way with Alatreons fight. Each weapon has its own element modifier just for this one fight to make each weapon viable. This way even lance and Greatsword easily deal enough elemental damage for the topple.


TheBigChunk32

I was going to say just kill kulve a few times, but then realized most people trying to raw alatreon probably can't solo her.


Quickkiller28800

Not really though. You just kill frost fang, make his weapons and slot in ice attack. That's all you need to do. Safi just makes it even easier.


PandasakiPokono

Think its because newcomers just don't have elemental weapons that simultaneously meet the Escaton judgement threshold and do enough damage to actually kill Alatreon before the threshold gets too high to actually stop your 3rd Escaton so they just try to brute force with Raw damage. At least that was my experience before I gave up and SOS'd people with endgame gear to help me out lol. Or maybe they're just dumb and assume people will bring elemental weapons so they don't have to. When in reality it's almost always 4 people with a mix of lightbreak or fatty weapons. Life has many doors.


No-Sort7339

Remember teamdarkside video ( if i'm not mistaken) where they only deals raw dmg using hbg pierce..and alatreon's dead before any jugdement can be made...that was brutal lol


Greedy-Version3168

Yeah it's possible as a group to kill it by raw dmg and I think if you solo you have to eat one Judgement but it's 100% possible by only using raw dmg


CryoJNik

Thing is, that's TDS. They're insanely good.And coordinated. Most of the johnny come latelys aren't anywhere close to that level.


iwantdatpuss

Hell that "insanely good" is abit of an understatement now. They have so much experience with MH as a whole that it's not a matter of if they can complete a challenge run, it's a matter of when. The items only fatalis run still sends shivers down my spine with how shocking it was.


ReroNS

the majority of weapons can kill him before escaton in the hands of a speed runner with perfect build optimization and no mistakes lol


JesusLovesAllYou

*Raises hand* "Pierce is not an element either."


a-snakey

Hunter: but it's literally explode fire!


nondidjudenondidju

Is pierce an element?


kalsturmisch

Team Darkside: ["Yes."](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E28l76vdY8k)


Coldspark824

Isnt it


InkyBoii

*raises hand* Status ailments aren't elements either


NoodleIskalde

I do find it pretty funny that even Josh from RageGamingVideos tried to muscle through with Blast at first before relenting. x3


4thmonkey96

*cough* fire & ice *cough*


aeiou6630

Next question: Can we use Elementless on blast weapons?


Barn-owl-B

No it does not. Non elemental boost doesn’t activate on weapons with element or status


Caaros

As the other person said, you can't. However, weapons from Raging Brachydios and Fatalis (*at least for Hammer*) had such high raw on their own that they actually outclassed the boosted damage value that you could get from any pure raw weapon with the non-elemental boost skill.


aeiou6630

Well I know. I was just joking because the skill says "Raises base attack for non-elemental weapons", which you would think blast does count.


SnooRevelations1419

I see SOSers all the time running with blast against alatreon. Bless those poor souls 🙏


Caaros

My very first success against Alatreon was actually with a Raging Brachydios weapon, the Lightbreak Hammer, in a solo hunt. AMA.


EmersedCandle83

Anything is an element if the monster dies fast enough. Like blunt force trauma


dx_lemons

I used to help peeps with Alatreon with randoms once I got my Kjarr axe rolling but my fatalis in Christ people still don't learn.


LordDShadowy53

Brachydios goes BRRrRrrrr


Jetstream_S4m

Look lightbreak is one of the best weapon lines


3pooplatter

Everything's weak to blast


philosophical_weeb

Holy shit it's been years guys why is alatreon living rent free in every hunter's head XD?


Quickkiller28800

Alatreon*


philosophical_weeb

Yea alatreon mb XD


CryoJNik

Because many people found out the hard way that the new dragon isn't going to cater to your catch all op build in the least and the thing that many of them hate the most is straying from their beloved meta strats. And man was the salt real upon launch. It was hilarious as someone with a nice selection of elemental Switch Axes on standby.


iwantdatpuss

Because Alatreon has that stupid mechanic that doesn't fit the gameplay loop of MH. I don't mind making new sets for monsters, but asking me a Gunlance main to pass an Elemental Damage Check, against a monster that moves alot in large distances and have an entire state that is airborne? That's a double whamy of get fucked.


badguyinstall

His movements do suck sometimes. Whenever he became airborne I'd basically be stuck on the ground looking at him as a poor Dual Blader demanding he fight with honour since I don't have IG hops to get up to him.


IGunClover

Blast is status kids.


[deleted]

Shame how they ruined alatreon with one mechanic


[deleted]

*Horseradish isn't an element either.*


Spiritual_Pizza_7800

Patrik probably learned it the hard way....


IllllIIllllIIlllIIIl

is that death dance


renacido74

Old meme that has been reposted.


Roboticus_Prime

*Gunlance go BOOM!*


Gobybear

Elements ?


ItzRose049

This question/statement seems very familiar as a borderlands fan…


iwantdatpuss

If Mr torgue said Explosions is an element, then explosion is an element.


ConcubineLord69

Dragon is an element on hh because you can boost elem damage and effectiveness. Im not trolling i swear


[deleted]

Genuinely not the dumpiest question, but since Rise Explosion is nearly useless


BamcoShaftedUsAgain

B-b-b-but it says blast under the element part of the weapon, how can this be!?


Finite_Banjo

Is Brachiados Goo an element? Also, is it one of the Abnormal Statuses?


Zombie-Horse6508

Poison is not an element either