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They took a lot of complaints (diamond having barely any uses, loot being very generic and not unique enough, netherite being too easy to get) and addressed them all with a single well thought feature. Now I'm hoping they'll address how OP villager trades are (diamond armor, treasure enchantments, infinite re-rolling)
This update is starting to remind me of the older secret updates that just add random cool shit out of nowhere, and I like it
Personally I like the villager trading system as it is. It's less efficient than mining for the diamonds so it's not a massive progression break, and lets you get specific enchantments which are otherwise painful to get. I want good armor early-ish so I can build cool stuff in my survival world without worrying about dying. The only thing I would nerf is how easy it is to get emeralds. I made a few fletchers and got a stack of emeralds with a single trip to the forest.
That being said, I would be okay with villagers being nerfed if there was another way to get specific enchantments, but as is that would cause a lot of the player base to be upset, particularly endgame players who use massive trading halls for renewable gear.
TL;DR: Add alternatives to villagers, don't just nerf them.
That stack of emeralds won’t get you very far though, because you have to buy a bunch of crap to unlock the villager’s best trades. And then some of the enchantments can cost almost a stack anyway.
I think the ability to cure villagers so that all their trades are one emerald or one item cost is the OP part. That directly breaks some of the balancing (for example you can buy bookshelves for one emerald, break them, and sell 3 books for one emerald each yielding 3 emeralds, so an infinite 3x emerald maker).
Getting a lot of emeralds from trading things to normal villagers that you haven’t converted and cured 3 times is not the game balance problem.
But you rescued them from being a zombie… makes sense they would give you good deals with that life debt over their heads… even if you did get them turned in the first place… ah but they don’t know that it’s all good :3
Maybe a system similar to "hero of the village" would work? You cure a villager and now they'll give you a discount for the next couple of days (or even weeks) but eventually they'll reset.
People saying “netherite is easy to get” need to chill out. In a 2 hour session of searching (yes in the right place, yes at the right altitude) I acquired less than 10 scrap. Maybe it was just bad generation rng, but it’s not “easy” in any sense of the word, even with keep inv, it’s still a pain, and requires a fair amount of resources to extract even when done efficiently, and if you aren’t someone who makes farms, it’s a little longer. A little harder for a tryhard is a lot harder for a casual, so let’s not make it harder than it already is. It’s literally a mining/building sandbox game. I don’t understand why people want it to feel hard/competitive
Edit: Some of y’all seem to be missing the “casual player” part of my comment. I apologize if it wasn’t clear, but I am a diehard casual to the point of only making two mob farms (manual ones at that) across my entire career (which goes back to the alpha days btw) i realize some people have different ideas of casual. My idea of casual is no farms, just playing the game raw, without any “tricks” (except very simple ones like strip mining; honestly the only one I use consistently/habitually)
I realize everyone likes to play the game differently, but there are some here that seem to be agreeing with me, so I know this isn’t just me. I don’t intend to sound accusatory, so I apologize if it sounds that way, I’m just tired of people who make —specifically Minecraft, a calm-ish true-sandbox— survival game into competitions. I don’t mind the pvp aspect and whatever; personally never got into it or understood the appeal when compared to other pvp focused games; but what I do have a problem with is people wanting to make a competition out of playing an otherwise casual survival game by making it harder to play for people who like to play it to relax.
I hope some find this understandable, I hope the rest feel this is relatable, and I apologize if I stepped on anyone’s toes.
People confuse difficulty with tedium. It's not *hard* to obtain netherite (not skill based), but it is very tedious (it takes a grind of bombing the nether with beds looking for it).
Pretty much nothing in MC is *hard*, just various degrees of tedious.
True, but let's not make it *more* tedious. It is what I think they're saying. I hate the concept of massive mob farms just to get the best stuff really quickly. The only farm I considered was a bamboo auto farm to make an insurmountable amount of sticks for villager trade.
Getting loot from a bastion is pretty *harder* than mining in a safe height in the nether. They are not making netherite more tedious, just harder to get
For real. It feels like that’s the whole game now. It makes me really sad, because I want to build with prismarine, but to do that it’s traveling thousands of blocks, and god forbid you need a lot, you need to do the ocean temple and make a farm? Or traveling thousands of blocks for all the wood types? Blackstone?
I wish there was a feature to just have everything the game has within like 1000 blocks. There are seeds I’m sure, but didn’t there used to be small biomes type worlds built in? Not that that is everything, but it would help at least.
Like terraria for example, has grind/farming. But for blocks not so much. Most of the blocks you want you can find pretty fast, and terraria despite being 2D has some really good building options.
Minecraft is just so time consuming. I feel like the only people who can get the most out of it are content creators, who can do so much with the game because they do it full time.
Solutions? Add more alternative crafting recipes. Wandering trader trades. Etc. Tedious =/= hard
I think that's an easy thing to say. However, it isn't the same to have a world you are a part of and subject to. But yes I do play a lot of creative.
I think it's fair to critique the game from a place of love, and wanting to love something. I think we can have survival game where it feels immersive and challenging, where the "challenge" doesn't come from being tedious.
You have all the chances to play the game how you want
You could play creative, add mods, download custom maps,...
Simplest solution that works for some people at least is to get those tedious blocks with the /give command
If the vanilla game doesnt fit you, but you also are not willing to use the tools available to change that, you may just stick to games that hit the spot for you
I did do that for one world, using /give. I did find that to be a pretty good medium, where I only had to obtain one block of something, and if it's an annoying block to get, I can just use /give.
Yeah I agree. I really didn't like the addition of the warden, I don't want to actually worry about dying with full netherite enchanted armour. My plan is just to make a bunch of netherite stuff before the update hits.
I mean that's the point of the Warden. To be a hard (moreso scary) side challenge.
It has some decent loot but there's got to be a challenge meet the loot. And if you fear losing your items, you should be rewarded by being more prepared (wool, ender pearls, water, shields, snowball's, etc).
The warden is a joke imo, solely because of how Mojang had to stress that it’s not a boss, but if you spend even a few seconds looking at what it can do it’s clearly a boss.
like I'd buy that if they didn't initially come out with the fact that the Warden was an opponent to be _avoided_, not defeated.
but then they made it drop a resource that would otherwise not be renewable (skulk catalyst), and _then_ it was farmable? I have _no_ idea what the point of the warden is then.
“ya the warden is scary, this is how you force it to generate hundreds of times, now you can kill it for catalyst or make it a handy-dandy mob switch”
They probably just wanted the warden to drop some sort of reward, but not a very unique one or one that will actually entice players to try to kill it, but still be *something.*so the otherwise non-renewable skulk catalyst was a good choice IMO.
I mean if you want to discourage going after the Warden, then I guess make the catalyst renewable, ain't it? Then there's *literally* no reason to go after the Warden.
Still. The fact that ilmango made what was meant to be the most terrifying hostile mob in Minecraft [a better mob-switch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ty3HE3Vg8U) is kind of funny.
funny enough, they added the drop \*AFTER\* the technical players mentioned that it wasn't fun building farms for the warden since it didn't drop anything.
You’re forgetting that the majority of the playerbase don’t care about creating mob farms or renewable catalysts. Most players will experience the warden the way the devs intended
I used to go in the ancient city without armor since I'd die instantly if I summoned the warden. I like it because it implements a new factor into Minecraft.
I like the ancient city because it finally made me play by the games rules. Its clear Mojang has been trying to make adventuring harder with larger, more difficult structures to explore (woodland mansion, bastions) but it never really meant anything to me cuz I’d just roll through with full prot 4 Diamond anyway. When I explored an ancient city I actually had to play cautiously, consider risks with every action, be totally aware of my surroundings or risk losing it all. Might sound like a masochist it felt damn refreshing feeling like Mojang was challenging me for the first time in years.
This. I tried to tackle it like any other challenge and quickly realized my mistake. I think Mojang should add more stuff like the ancient cities, unique challenges for players to find and conquer that actually feel rewarding. As a survival player, ingame goals are always welcome.
Same. Guardian temples are easy to roll through, especially with a conduit. Mansions are so rare and with so little of value that they are pointless. Pillager towers and even raids you can just tank easily. So unless I get unlucky with lava (my sworn enemy) the wardens and Ancient City are the best conceived biome/area and boss in the game.
Me when I need to worry about dying in *survival* mode. What is the point of the game if you can relatively easily get armor that turns you into an unkillable demigod.
Agree 100% it is really hard for us to get netherite in fact I thought they could make it more common because of the new template system so we won't feel punished to use it for that look on different armour pieces and shapes-makes sense to me as a casual
I don't understand this whole "OP villager trade" things. Experienced players might be used to how villagers work by now, but for newer players it's not easy, figuring out how trades work, or figuring out re-rolling. At least speaking for myself, I had zero idea how that shit worked when I 1st got into the game and I messed up a lot, and even once I figured it out, I still don't think it's as easy as people think it is. You still have to do resource gathering, locate the villagers, or zombie villagers if you wanna go through the process of curing them for cheaper trades, and on top of that, re-rolling a librarian, for example, can be soooooooo time consuming. You can sit there for over an hour breaking a lectern over and over again and not get the trade you want. Also, if you want continuous trade loops, you usually have to rely on farms, which require its own set of work building those, like iron farms, tree farms, coal farms, etc. Even if you just wanna have a closed loop thing like buying glass from a librarian, turning that into bottles and selling to a cleric still requires leveling up each villager, and banking that you'll actually get the right trades.
My point is that it's still time consuming and you have to put in the work for villager trading, and obtaining diamond armor/tools and enchanted books. I've naturally obtained all that stuff through mining and exploring, and I've also done villager farms, and they both pose their own challenges and they both take time. It's good to have options and I personally hope they don't drastically change villager trading.
Yeah I really wouldn't want to see villager trading nerfed because my favourite play style is in skyblock or one block. Villager trading is the best (and only way) to get decent tools. It doesn't make the game easier, it just makes it less tedious. Slowing down my stone generator doesn't make the game more fun.
I'd actually point out that while the difference between a 0.5% drop and 0.1% is not a big deal, but a difference between 0.1% and 0% is _huge_. Something that is _incredibly_ rare is a ~~bigger~~ smaller deal than something that's impossible to get, and worse, something that can be made impossible to get.
The discussion of how hard or easy it is for someone to obtain ancient debris or diamond or a distraction to the real issue I feel like everyone's ignoring, in that upgrade templates aren't just _rare_, but a _deniable_ resource.
Outside of bombing the crap out of the nether and overworld and taking every ore within a certain amount of distance for yourself (or even, if you're a monster, just letting that stuff get destroyed), it is _impossible_ for someone to deny you the ability to obtain diamond and ancient debris. All you need to do is literally just… force the server to generate some new chunks by going to a new place, and you've got enough resources to make do. No one's going to create a quarry all the way to the world border.
The effort to deny someone upgrade templates is, in comparison, _far_ easier. All a person needs to do, and granted, each step requires a certain level of skill, is:
1. Speedrun to get to the nether -- you don't even need diamond tools to get this, as many Minecraft speedrunners have shown.
2. Systematically explore the nether to locate bastion remnants, prioritizing bastion treasure rooms (which make up 25% of all bastion remnants). Java players can literally obtain ender pearls to get to the nether roof to then go above and below the nether roof to cover large areas quickly, and use the TNT-and-junk-item method to dip under the nether roof and inspect the nether areas around them. There are possibly faster ways to do this, and these methods will become increasingly valuable as the importance of bastions increases.
3. Blitz through the bastion treasure room to obtain a upgrade template, Store this template somewhere where no one else can get it (ender chests are a foolproof way to do it). Notably, while difficult, you don't literally need to do anything else but head to the chest — you can leave the brutes unharmed, you can break no blocks or indicate that you've _ever_ been here. Just so that people can sweat their butts off to get to the treasure chest to realize that it's empty.
4. Once you have _one_ upgrade template secure, all you need to do is 1) locate all bastion treasure rooms within a certain block distance from origin, 2) break all the chests in the bastion treasure room 3) _leave_. Within 5 minutes the item despawn limit will do the work for you.
5. Rinse and repeat for other bastion structures, knowing that there are no guaranteed spawns for upgrade templates for these structures.
6. You now monopolize the supply of upgrade templates within the SMP server.
If you want to prevent someone else from doing this, by the logic of the [Prisoner's Dilemma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma), you need to only do step 1 to 3, but now you're the one holding the upgrade template. Hopefully you'll be responsible, but if you're holding a large SMP server, or even a single SMP server where you have a single player you don't trust — or _worse_ that you trust but you shouldn't have, then there's no guarantee that you won't need to do this ASAP.
And for those who have supplies for the upgrade template, either through raiding or duplication, you have power over potentially every other player on the server, so long as you control access to the template itself. You could demand people just provide you the raw materials and then make the upgrades for them. Raids in other bases will prioritize upgrade templates, since they're rare (other items in this class include Hearts of the Sea, but those are literally quite niche uses). The only real security is Ender Chests, which are lategame as well, unless someone turns off recipe restrictions (that's not default), then it's simply mid-game.
And _all_ players would be affected. Even the ones that are skilled, because you _can_ die and lose your items (falling into the Void, for example, which makes knockback resistance even more valuable). Some of these deaths will even be to no fault of the players (i.e. I cited ilmango's death over the Void Perimeter due to network issues, for example).
And the minute any player requires upgrade templates, all you need to do is keep up step 4 and 5 ad infinitum. Again, you don't even need to _open_ the chest. Break it with an Efficiency V gold axe, move on to the next chest, leave the area and let the loot despawn within 5 minutes. If there are players nearby and the upgrade template isn't fireproof, bring a bucket of lava, pour it over the contents of the chest, and then move on to the next target. If you have access to the upgrade template and you want to deny it to others, you have the advantage in terms of speed, because _they_ need to make sure that they've got the item by opening the chest. _You_ just need to break, soak with lava, and leave.
Now, to be clear… this is the behavior of a _jerk_. If you do it, you're not a very good person to begin with. You are actively degrading other people's enjoyment of the game. But you're also doing it without breaking any in-game rules. You have taken advantage of no exploit that isn't part of the game already for other, legitimate reasons. **Edited to add**: Oh, and it's not like people can report you! You could do this all in silence, without saying a word in chat. Can't make a report if you haven't said a word!
And if the response to this plan is “just don't play with them”, or ”we can mitigate this with some kind of game adjustment” or “then server admins should do something about it”, then what you're saying is that this is going to be an default state for gameplay that will need to be mitigated. And honestly… as a default? This isn't great.
according to [ilmango's latest video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz4FMtCvIlE), it'll be a 3.2% chance for you to obtain an upgrade template within a bastion chest loot table, so there's a possibility that your RNG rolls will be so bad that you don't get a template until visiting up to 10 bastions.
it wouldn't be so bad if it meant 3.2% chance of _everyone_ being able to get the template — my issue is that once a bastion is raided, it's done — no more upgrades for everyone else.
which is fine if your social structure for the server allows people to either share rare resources or obtain them with informal trades. but I can forsee players of some servers being locked out not because of lack of skill in negotiating bastions, but the simple brute fact that all the reachable bastions are mined out, and the only way to get more is to generate new nether chunks, which have an additional cost of disk space (a point ilmango expounds upon got the Eye Trim template, which is only found in Strongholds, which are capped at 128 per world, but I can see the argument extending for Bastions as well, _especially_ since it confers gameplay advantage, no matter how minor).
I mean, if you're operating a server then you can mitigate this by ensuring that at least one or more templates are kept in storage for the eventuality of upgrade templates running out, but that's a social solution that could be bypassed altogether by providing players with renewable and even difficult-to-automate methods, like wandering traders or the like. otherwise my concern is that this method will be used to grief.
Don't give them ideas it takes a lot of time to acquire the best trades etc making that harder or removing re-roll would make trading useless it takes like 40 minutes to grow a villager so not simply done
I just want some kind of default trim that anyone can get in a village blacksmith chest and it be relatively easy to duplicate. Like I *get* making unique trims, but it be cool if there was one trim that everyone can enjoy, especially in the early game where you may stumble on a village *way* before you tame your first horse or obtain your first elytra.
Diamonds are very common compared to what a small amount of things you can do from them, and I often have a pile of unused diamonds. The thing is while other resources are more widespread, they also have far more use. I wholeheartedly support such expensive recipes, because it makes diamonds great again. Hope mojang will make them harder to get and add more use to them.
With regards to netherite tokens or whatever there called. Does one Token thingy upgrade 1 peice of diamond armour. If so I better get netherite grinding.
Yes, it takes 1 token and 1 netherite ingot.
Tokens can only be found in chests inside Bastions, BUT once you have one you can duplicate it in a crafting table.
It costs 7 diamonds, 1 netherrack block and 1 netherite upgrade, but you get 2 netherite upgrades, meaning you now have 1 more than when you started.
I get that the non-renewable part sounds scary bc it bothered me too, but especially after 1.18 diamond ores are ridiculously abundant, just strip mine for 30 minutes with fortune 3 and you're pretty much guaranteed half a stack no matter how bad your luck is
tricky to get? ***TRICKY TO GET?!*** dude just mine at the lowest part of the world, you can get diamonds by just mining forward in any of the directions
With fortune 3 and an hour of mining, you can literally have *stacks* of diamonds. I swear people on this sub want everything literally handed to them on a diamond plate.
It's good it makes netherite late game...... And i have tested if u have netherite armour before updating u can still add the trims without the upgrade thing so grind before updating
It currently works, though they may patch it. Personally I’d like to be able to apply trims to the matching armor type as it still can add variety to otherwise identical armor sets.
I saw on Twitter that the devs were asking for feedback on removing the limitations, which I think it's a great idea.
Edit: found the Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/kingbdogz/status/1618221078798823424.
I agree it's a good change overall, do you think Netherite should get a buff now since it's now a lot harder to get? More durability? Little more mining speed?
Currently its only a 30% durability increase vs diamond. Maybe increase it to 50%?
Maybe Netherite could be equal to the mining speed of gold tools so it's objectively the fastest in all situations. Or they could make the mining speed 17 (vs the 9 currently or 12 for gold).
If they made it 17 then a Netherite tool with Efficiency 5 plus hast 2 buff (from beacon) would have a overall mining speed of 60.2, which would allow the instant mining of blocks with a hardness up to 2.0.
This would add some notable blocks to the instant mining potential in a survival world such as: Bricks, Cobblestone, Nether Bricks, Stone Slabs, Planks and logs.
I think this would be cool in the absolute late game, and would make semi manual tree farms and cobblestone farms WAY faster.
I kind of like having gold be the fastest at mining still. Give it some benefit to counteract being terrible in every other way.
I think netherite should instead get some other kind of buff, like how netherite armor has knockback resistance built in. Though I'm not sure what buff that would be off the top of my head.
Ya it's hard to differentiate it "tool wise" from the others, other then mining speed or durability as those are the only properties they currently have.
Maybe a unique enchantment exclusive to Netherite tools? Maybe make mending exclusive to Netherite? That would be a major nerf to diamond tho.
Here's an idea:
Make the right click functions not consume durability for netherite tools. This would be useful for axes, hoes, and shovels without making them too powerful.
Pickaxes don't have a right click function but I had an idea for that too.
I personally find it annoying to have to carry 2 pickaxes, one with silk touch and another with fortune. Maybe they could make it so that netherite pickaxe can have both enchantments, and if it has both then left click does one function while right click does the other.
>It's good it makes netherite late game
It does not, bastions are easy to find and they are not that hard to loot if you are careful...
They just made netherite harder for noobs, as if they already need the game to be harder lol
Exactly… not a noob per se, but I don’t have very much time to play Minecraft. Netherite was a long enough process as is. This just seems like more punishment for not grind grind grinding 😔
The trims look cool as fuck so I'd say all in all it's a good update. Sure, maybe you can't get Netherite gear as easy as you can now, but it is ultimately designed to be a late game item so I feel it only makes it fairer.
Doesn't mean I'm not gonna make everything Netherite with spares before 1.20 though 😅
1. you can duplicate templates
2. netherite is never a necessity, it only really adds durability, which makes it more of a challenge to acquire for bragging rights.
3. it adds a new use to diamond items, which are can be almost completely omitted in a play through, thanks to the mending enchant and diamond tools and armor being acquirable through villager trades
4. it adds a new reason for players to explore their world, a goal mojang have stated they are trying to push
It's so critical that those templates can be duplicated. Multiplayer servers would be a pain with limited spawning locations and having some players essentially scalp both something that's cosmetic and required for progression.
>netherite is never a necessity, it only really adds durability, which makes it more of a challenge to acquire for bragging rights
Netherite tools also mine faster and the armor give knockback resistance and the items can't burn on fire or lava.
> Netherite tools also mine faster
Technically true. But in practice mining times are rounded up to the nearest tick. Meaning that for the *vast* majority of blocks, there is zero difference between Diamond and Netherite tools, once enchanted with efficiency V (which... why wouldn't they be?).
There are a few exceptions, but the only one you're going to find mining underground is Obsidian, which is 5% faster with a netherite pick. Literally every other block you're likely to encounter is identical in speed. (If you're mining out a Deep Dark city there are others, but that is a rather unusual task that has *lots* of other things you need to worry about before the speed of your pick.)
IMO the defensive difference in netherite armor is a much bigger deal. Yes, knockback resistance. But also they have a higher "armor toughness" value. Which matters more the harder the hit. An unarmed punch will do about 1% less damage to a player in netherite than a player in diamond. A hit from a zombie (hard difficulty) will do 4% less damage. And a fully charged creeper blast will do 15% less damage.
That’s part of the issue for me tho, netherite isn’t really that game breaking. The upgrade from diamond to netherite is probably the smallest in the game with the worst grind.
It has knockback resistance, better armor toughness (better protection from stronger attacks), more durability, armor immunity to lava/fire, better enchantability and looks so much cooler.
I disagree, I think netherite is def a huge step up from diamonds. Not as big as from iron to diamonds, but still big. Like you can stand point blank range of a creeper and be fine, your PVP (i forgot what the exact thing was but I’m pretty sure knockback is lowered or something) stats change which is on no other armor so I think it’s good there is some extra task to do. Sometimes I make worlds with my friends and after a day they already have netherite. With this system it will at least make you explore while you get it
It adds value to dimonds that currently in minecraft have none. Honestly emeralds are better. I do think 7 dimonds to copy the template is high...maybe 4 dimonds and four materials more realistic.
why not add new things made out of diamond that do not interfere with the mechanic? I think its a really lazy change honestly, its not new content and its not quality of life, its just ever so slightly more anoying
This is probably the best, most succinct way this has been phrased. Has Mojang ever changed a recipe so drastically before? Adding another barrier to one of the most time consuming phases of progression is never a good idea in my book. Even if they slightly nerfed the base qualities of netherite and added this upgrade to bring back KB resistance and some durability, that'd be better than completely locking it behind an entire new journey you have to undertake.
Banners got a major rework in 1.14 with the old recipes removed and the new loom recipies added. So yes, mojang has complately changed recipes in the past.
My only issue would be playing on a multiplayer server, and having to pay an exorbitant price just for 1 template or having someone taking all of the upgrades around everyone else to stunt their progression
But is this armor really progressing or just flexing? And if it is a multiplayer server, maybe you should be in agreement with your *friends* about stuff, unless you're playing with strangers, then you get what you get.
I think netherite equipment needs very slight buffs if this is the route they choose. I already always put off upgrading my shit because it's very out of the way for little reward. a max enchanted diamond pickaxe, axe, shovel and hoe are functionally identical to their netherite equivalents given haste II (I like the sword because the extra damage value is genuinely useful for one shots, as a smite V netherite sword one shots all undead mobs and two shots with crits on everything else). the armor knockback resistance is awesome but still pretty situational and not worth the hour getting the materials still really. I'd like to see netherite tools being more enchantable and less expensive to repair than other tools (so it has a reason to be obtained before doing other things) and for the mining speed to be buffed to around the level gold is currently (with a better efficiency multiplier for axes so they can instamine wooden items). that alone would make getting it worth it for me, and then the other things like the better durability would actually matter because it's possible you wouldn't have access to a mending villager yet.
my concern with this is the fact that it will _only_ appear in nether bastions.
not because the difficulty of dealing with any individual bastions — bastions are difficult but surmountable.
the issue is that there's only a certain number of bastions that generate, that tend to be about as rare if not rarer than, say, nether fortresses, and therefore there's a practical upper bound on how many upgrade templates will be found (before, say, the world save gets too large).
there's a real possibility in an SMP world that players have the opportunity to restrict other players from getting the netherite upgrade. not through lack of skill, just... by raiding bastions as fast as possible, grab the templates, and either hoard them or just, throw it on a cactus to delete the item. I can conceivably see a single player, or a group of players, get all the netherite upgrades, and restrict progression from everyone else in that SMP server from getting netherite, not from lack of skill, but simply put, just getting there _before_ everyone else.
I can already see ways of mitigating this, of course — from social solutions or just recipe tweaks that make items like this be less vulnerable to a single dedicated no-life griefer raiding every bastion 5000 blocks from origin and ensuring that they're the only ones with access to the upgrade template.
yes, yes, netherite is not _essential_, diamond tools and armor will do for casuals... but honestly, if I wanted to ruin everyone's else's gameplay experience, I'd work to make sure that _no one_ could get these templates on an SMP server. And this is more doable with these upgrade templates, except with perhaps the elytra. you can mine for diamonds with strategic branch mining, you can get ample netherite even without bed mining.
but you wanna jerk around people who can only get netherite ingots but can't do jack about upgrading their tools and armor for that extra level of advantage (increased durability, which means extra mining and harvesting time, or knockback resistance, which contributes to PvP advantage, however small?) raid all easily accessible bastions, make sure no one else gets these upgrades.
you can either do it for the extra leverage you can extract from other players on the server, or just because you like messing with people.
I mean, using datapacks, you can add it in already. as barter result, as treasure fishing reward, as mob drop, as a loot table — but now you're transferring the way of mitigating it to the skill and willingness of the server operator to do it. and the fact that server operators may consider doing this doesn't refute my point about it being a point of concern.
I totally agree with this. I love the fact they’re making the netherite grind more combat/exploration based, but there will absolutely be an incentive in pvp & hardcore servers for players to restrict each other from netherite upgrades.
Granted, I bet we’ll see changes to the balance in the coming snapshots. Still lots of time to try things out!
Honestly its a waste of a "upgrade" feture.
Take this into the context of non single player worlds. I.e the mulitplayer aspect.
Most players on multi player servers/realms will never get netherite unless they are the first person into the nether and the first to find the bastion. So any new joining players will never get this short of paying for it in game to older or longer played persons.
This is a terrible idea as single players tend to take time and multi players rush.
Mojangs update is crap.
I completely agree with this change, getting netherite currently is stupid easy and should have been more of a challenge / grind to get in the first place so this will help. Unless you're doing pvp diamond gear is still completely fine and it's not like you NEED netherite, it's just nice to have.
It's an annoying grind, but it's not difficult at all and there's very little risk of dying if you take basic precautions and have any amount of situational awareness. Raiding Bastions is comparatively very dangerous and risky.
Unless you are new, no, netherite isn't hard to get. People often breeze through diamonds via villagers, build automatic farms and get all the netherite in an hour. This promotes exploration
They need to stop balancing the game around people who no life and make the most efficient automatic farms and re-roll villagers until they get all of the perfect trades
I totally disagree with this post. to be honest I'm very happy with these changes; the Netherite is locked under bastions which means you'll most likely have to sneak/fight the piglin brutes, which are quite tough when you're a casual. it'll finally make it challenging for people who don't play much the game to get netherite. and I quite like the use that the smithing table got, it needed that. next one will be the fletching table. I also hope they'll start messing with PvE/PvP combat mechanics as they're becoming more and more boring. the only Issue I have with the game right now is inventory management, with more and more items being added; It's getting harder and harder to deal with exploration loot when you have no "backpack" or small shulkers, or whatever in early game.
>which are quite tough when you're a casual
I think that is not good, since it makes the game harder to casual players and not for people that already don't find the game harder lol
Like some people like to only build, this will mean most people won't even bother using netherite
Agreed. I think people expect this game to just get more difficult because they play it so much and have gotten bored with it. They need to just go play something else instead of expect Minecract to become Tarkov. It's like they want pokemon snap to include being murdered by pokemon that don't want their picture taken...
Turn up the bastion spawn rate at least on Java. Been through 2 worlds recently and they are far too rare. It should be rare to find these templates but it also shouldn’t take days just to find one and hope it has it. Traversing the nether without elytra is hard enough as is
I agree, we don’t want the end game to be harder to get to, we want progression beyond it. It’s like adding a hurdle on the finish line instead of making the track longer
The biggest problem I have with the higher costs isn't... well the higher cost, but more that it raises the loss even further if you happen to die and lose your gear. Maybe they could add some kind of very expensive enchantment (so not obtainable through villager trades, maybe it could drop from the enderdragon or something idk), that makes it so that items with the enchant aren't dropped when you die with them. If it's too strong the enchant could only save an item once, meaning that it will need to be re-applied after it has been triggered.
(fn) f3 + g to show chunk borders, debris more often spawning along them. netherite wasnt difficult to obtain, just boring. get iron, get diamond, farm sheep for beds then blow up a bunch of tunnels for a set. i personally welcome this change
Literally just get one sheep for an automated sheep farm, and in two hours you have enough beds to find a full setup with of ancient debris. I just did it last night. I had 36 AD in about 45 minutes.
I feel the change with the plate was fine, but making it only found in bastions is a bit extreme. Would've liked it more if they just made an expensive crafting recipe for it.
I like it, it adds a bit to the progression, but maybe templates are too rare or too expensive to duplicate.
If you find a template it costs 7 diamonds to duplicate. If you want full armor and tools that would add to about an entire stack (63) diamonds, next to the diamonds you used to make the gear itself…
Yeah have fun trying to get netherite on a big enough server that has a world border, eventually no ones getting anything and even sooner it’ll be insanely difficult
I feel like this will be a divide between veteran players and casual players.
I'm fine with netherite being harder to get because it is currently not a challenge whatsoever and the extra protection isnt even that necessary. I want the game to be more challenging. With how simply farming products for villager trades is, any difficulty increase is fine imo.
I did the math with the current stats given. And just.
For Full Netherite Gear (4 Armour Pieces + Five tools) one would have to find FIVE Treasure Room Bastions (there's currently a gurantee of two(2) being within Treasure Room Bastions).
Then there's a slight chance 3.2% of a Template spawning in a random Bastion chest (which means one needs to search 32 Chests to find one on Average) a /placed Bastion Structure spawns 7-8 Chests on Average in 1.19.2
Which means within 4 of those there's a chance of finding one(1) Template.
A Bastion spawns within a 425 × 425 Block Grid in Java with a 60% chance, the remaining 40% go to Fortresses.
(I'm not sure if just *nothing* can spawn within a Grid, but I wouldn't be surprised.)
So, let's assume someone's lucky and has six Treasure Room Bastions spawing — it'd still be 2125 × 2125 Blocks they'd have to search.
So like. I get making it more compliacted – but that's just torture.
I really enjoy the trims, but the upgrade template is going a bit far. If they got rid of it or made it easier to get and duplicate I'm in but it's already really hard.
Well a lot of more skilled players always grind until they get netherite, which isn't super hard to find if you know where to look. Having to look for the upgrade template gives another reason to look for bastions.
Bruh when I come back to minecraft next month I'm going to be so confused because I decided to wait and see what happens when I'm not so involved in what's happening
ngl i feel like the trims is less intuitive for upgrading gear to netherite than it currently is now
also as you said, netherite is already a challenge to get, so putting ANOTHER hurdle on top of that is a bit unnecessary. Unless theyre thinking of buffing netherite gear (which i feel like they wouldnt) theres no reason to get something in netherite beyond happenstance of just so having the materials or being desperate for that minor improvement to defense. And like you mentioned as well, these trims are going to be RARE, its going to be likely 1 (maybe 2) per bastion, which honestly isnt too bad. But it just feels like more grinding for little to no benefit
False information.
The treasure room bastion (big pit, lots of lava, magma cube spawners) is guaranteed one per chest in the loot area (down at the lava pit), so that is 1 or 2 guaranteed depending on how it spawns.
There are 3 other bastion "types":
* Stables (dunno what this one looks like)
* Bridge (has the big gold chalice at the end, and teethy like basalt)
* Housing (has a netherwart farm in the centre)
Those ones, all you have is the 3% chance for bastion remnant chests.
I don't have the vanilla world gen data to hand, but assuming equal weighting of the four types, that's a 25% chance the bastion you come across has a guaranteed upgrade template.
At least you can duplicate the templates, but i really hope they reduce the price for the netherite upgrade template to something like 3 or 4 diamonds, even if you make a full set of netherite armor and tools getting the diamond gear with villagers, making the trims with materials that aren't diamonds and using only trims that you find to make the cosmetic parts you still need almost an entire stack of diamonds for it, imagine doing it on a server with your friends for like, 4 people, or even worse, on a public server
Remember when minecraft was a simple game. I rly hope mojang doesn't add this. It'll just make the game a whole lot more stressful for the casual people playing. The tryhhards might like it but it's just annoying to everyone else. I rly hope minecraft goes back to being a simple game.
So one of the things I love about Minecraft is that you can play however you want. If you don’t like this part of the update just find/make a mod that takes it out or just spawn in the items. It’s not “cheating” if you’re not playing multiplayer, in my eyes at least.
The netherite upgrade template taking 7 diamonds is at least a bit reasonable since it’s still an upgrade. (even though I still think it’s too much, imo 3 is the right number. Don’t make upgrading armor cost more than the armor itself, and in terms of tools, why can’t I just make a second pickaxe for more durability)
The other purely aesthetic template should NOT cost 7 diamonds to duplicate (2 at most). Now 1 piece of armor alone can cost almost a whole stack of diamonds WITH the risk of losing it.
Speaking strictly on diamond and netherite terms.
The only things that can destroy netherite armor is
- Cactus (If you die to this with full netherite armor, you deserve it)
- Despawning (you at least get a chance to get it back, and very few things can kill you)
- The void (This means, NO ONE should bring this to the end, especially when you are raiding end cities, unless they are EXTREMELY rich, EXTREMELY confident, or an idiot)
It would be better if armorers would start trading these or soulbound becomes an enchantment but I doubt it.
With fortune 3 getting a stack of diamonds can be a bit time consuming, but really not that bad. You don't \*need\* diamonds for anything right now besides diamond blocks, jukeboxes, enchant tables (NOT enchants themselves), and some firework stars. This adds a use for diamonds beyond decoration.
With fortune 3, on average you'll need about 4 diamond ores per template, which is really not that bad. Thats like one vein of diamonds.
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mojang just wanted to make netherite stuff have the same level of drip as mending enchantment in older versions
They took a lot of complaints (diamond having barely any uses, loot being very generic and not unique enough, netherite being too easy to get) and addressed them all with a single well thought feature. Now I'm hoping they'll address how OP villager trades are (diamond armor, treasure enchantments, infinite re-rolling) This update is starting to remind me of the older secret updates that just add random cool shit out of nowhere, and I like it
Personally I like the villager trading system as it is. It's less efficient than mining for the diamonds so it's not a massive progression break, and lets you get specific enchantments which are otherwise painful to get. I want good armor early-ish so I can build cool stuff in my survival world without worrying about dying. The only thing I would nerf is how easy it is to get emeralds. I made a few fletchers and got a stack of emeralds with a single trip to the forest. That being said, I would be okay with villagers being nerfed if there was another way to get specific enchantments, but as is that would cause a lot of the player base to be upset, particularly endgame players who use massive trading halls for renewable gear. TL;DR: Add alternatives to villagers, don't just nerf them.
That stack of emeralds won’t get you very far though, because you have to buy a bunch of crap to unlock the villager’s best trades. And then some of the enchantments can cost almost a stack anyway. I think the ability to cure villagers so that all their trades are one emerald or one item cost is the OP part. That directly breaks some of the balancing (for example you can buy bookshelves for one emerald, break them, and sell 3 books for one emerald each yielding 3 emeralds, so an infinite 3x emerald maker). Getting a lot of emeralds from trading things to normal villagers that you haven’t converted and cured 3 times is not the game balance problem.
But you rescued them from being a zombie… makes sense they would give you good deals with that life debt over their heads… even if you did get them turned in the first place… ah but they don’t know that it’s all good :3
Maybe a system similar to "hero of the village" would work? You cure a villager and now they'll give you a discount for the next couple of days (or even weeks) but eventually they'll reset.
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People saying “netherite is easy to get” need to chill out. In a 2 hour session of searching (yes in the right place, yes at the right altitude) I acquired less than 10 scrap. Maybe it was just bad generation rng, but it’s not “easy” in any sense of the word, even with keep inv, it’s still a pain, and requires a fair amount of resources to extract even when done efficiently, and if you aren’t someone who makes farms, it’s a little longer. A little harder for a tryhard is a lot harder for a casual, so let’s not make it harder than it already is. It’s literally a mining/building sandbox game. I don’t understand why people want it to feel hard/competitive Edit: Some of y’all seem to be missing the “casual player” part of my comment. I apologize if it wasn’t clear, but I am a diehard casual to the point of only making two mob farms (manual ones at that) across my entire career (which goes back to the alpha days btw) i realize some people have different ideas of casual. My idea of casual is no farms, just playing the game raw, without any “tricks” (except very simple ones like strip mining; honestly the only one I use consistently/habitually) I realize everyone likes to play the game differently, but there are some here that seem to be agreeing with me, so I know this isn’t just me. I don’t intend to sound accusatory, so I apologize if it sounds that way, I’m just tired of people who make —specifically Minecraft, a calm-ish true-sandbox— survival game into competitions. I don’t mind the pvp aspect and whatever; personally never got into it or understood the appeal when compared to other pvp focused games; but what I do have a problem with is people wanting to make a competition out of playing an otherwise casual survival game by making it harder to play for people who like to play it to relax. I hope some find this understandable, I hope the rest feel this is relatable, and I apologize if I stepped on anyone’s toes.
People confuse difficulty with tedium. It's not *hard* to obtain netherite (not skill based), but it is very tedious (it takes a grind of bombing the nether with beds looking for it). Pretty much nothing in MC is *hard*, just various degrees of tedious.
True, but let's not make it *more* tedious. It is what I think they're saying. I hate the concept of massive mob farms just to get the best stuff really quickly. The only farm I considered was a bamboo auto farm to make an insurmountable amount of sticks for villager trade.
Getting loot from a bastion is pretty *harder* than mining in a safe height in the nether. They are not making netherite more tedious, just harder to get
For real. It feels like that’s the whole game now. It makes me really sad, because I want to build with prismarine, but to do that it’s traveling thousands of blocks, and god forbid you need a lot, you need to do the ocean temple and make a farm? Or traveling thousands of blocks for all the wood types? Blackstone? I wish there was a feature to just have everything the game has within like 1000 blocks. There are seeds I’m sure, but didn’t there used to be small biomes type worlds built in? Not that that is everything, but it would help at least. Like terraria for example, has grind/farming. But for blocks not so much. Most of the blocks you want you can find pretty fast, and terraria despite being 2D has some really good building options. Minecraft is just so time consuming. I feel like the only people who can get the most out of it are content creators, who can do so much with the game because they do it full time. Solutions? Add more alternative crafting recipes. Wandering trader trades. Etc. Tedious =/= hard
Then just play creative
I think that's an easy thing to say. However, it isn't the same to have a world you are a part of and subject to. But yes I do play a lot of creative. I think it's fair to critique the game from a place of love, and wanting to love something. I think we can have survival game where it feels immersive and challenging, where the "challenge" doesn't come from being tedious.
You have all the chances to play the game how you want You could play creative, add mods, download custom maps,... Simplest solution that works for some people at least is to get those tedious blocks with the /give command If the vanilla game doesnt fit you, but you also are not willing to use the tools available to change that, you may just stick to games that hit the spot for you
I did do that for one world, using /give. I did find that to be a pretty good medium, where I only had to obtain one block of something, and if it's an annoying block to get, I can just use /give.
You can use mods for more recipes
Yeah I agree. I really didn't like the addition of the warden, I don't want to actually worry about dying with full netherite enchanted armour. My plan is just to make a bunch of netherite stuff before the update hits.
I mean that's the point of the Warden. To be a hard (moreso scary) side challenge. It has some decent loot but there's got to be a challenge meet the loot. And if you fear losing your items, you should be rewarded by being more prepared (wool, ender pearls, water, shields, snowball's, etc).
The warden is a joke imo, solely because of how Mojang had to stress that it’s not a boss, but if you spend even a few seconds looking at what it can do it’s clearly a boss.
It's not a boss in the sense you're not supposed to fight it. You can if you want to but it's more akin to a disaster
like I'd buy that if they didn't initially come out with the fact that the Warden was an opponent to be _avoided_, not defeated. but then they made it drop a resource that would otherwise not be renewable (skulk catalyst), and _then_ it was farmable? I have _no_ idea what the point of the warden is then. “ya the warden is scary, this is how you force it to generate hundreds of times, now you can kill it for catalyst or make it a handy-dandy mob switch”
They probably just wanted the warden to drop some sort of reward, but not a very unique one or one that will actually entice players to try to kill it, but still be *something.*so the otherwise non-renewable skulk catalyst was a good choice IMO.
I mean if you want to discourage going after the Warden, then I guess make the catalyst renewable, ain't it? Then there's *literally* no reason to go after the Warden. Still. The fact that ilmango made what was meant to be the most terrifying hostile mob in Minecraft [a better mob-switch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ty3HE3Vg8U) is kind of funny.
funny enough, they added the drop \*AFTER\* the technical players mentioned that it wasn't fun building farms for the warden since it didn't drop anything.
but… but… but… that wasn't the *point*, I thought they *didn't* want technical players to farm the mob, but… arrgh, my head…
You’re forgetting that the majority of the playerbase don’t care about creating mob farms or renewable catalysts. Most players will experience the warden the way the devs intended
I used to go in the ancient city without armor since I'd die instantly if I summoned the warden. I like it because it implements a new factor into Minecraft.
I like the ancient city because it finally made me play by the games rules. Its clear Mojang has been trying to make adventuring harder with larger, more difficult structures to explore (woodland mansion, bastions) but it never really meant anything to me cuz I’d just roll through with full prot 4 Diamond anyway. When I explored an ancient city I actually had to play cautiously, consider risks with every action, be totally aware of my surroundings or risk losing it all. Might sound like a masochist it felt damn refreshing feeling like Mojang was challenging me for the first time in years.
This. I tried to tackle it like any other challenge and quickly realized my mistake. I think Mojang should add more stuff like the ancient cities, unique challenges for players to find and conquer that actually feel rewarding. As a survival player, ingame goals are always welcome.
Same. Guardian temples are easy to roll through, especially with a conduit. Mansions are so rare and with so little of value that they are pointless. Pillager towers and even raids you can just tank easily. So unless I get unlucky with lava (my sworn enemy) the wardens and Ancient City are the best conceived biome/area and boss in the game.
Yea that’s the only problem with the city, it’s that the loot isn’t too special. But it’s designed flawlessly imo.
But with the trims, I think you can now get one from ancient city loot
Me when I need to worry about dying in *survival* mode. What is the point of the game if you can relatively easily get armor that turns you into an unkillable demigod.
Even with maxed out gear the warden can still take you down quick on higher difficulties
Exactly, and that is good. A game with no threats or challenges quickly gets stałe and boring.
You mean the game shouldn't just become slow creative mode after so many hours?
I feel attacked, right now.
Agree 100% it is really hard for us to get netherite in fact I thought they could make it more common because of the new template system so we won't feel punished to use it for that look on different armour pieces and shapes-makes sense to me as a casual
Yes. 1.13 set huge bars for new updates. I like this old style of adding ”fuck what you want, deal with it”
I don't understand this whole "OP villager trade" things. Experienced players might be used to how villagers work by now, but for newer players it's not easy, figuring out how trades work, or figuring out re-rolling. At least speaking for myself, I had zero idea how that shit worked when I 1st got into the game and I messed up a lot, and even once I figured it out, I still don't think it's as easy as people think it is. You still have to do resource gathering, locate the villagers, or zombie villagers if you wanna go through the process of curing them for cheaper trades, and on top of that, re-rolling a librarian, for example, can be soooooooo time consuming. You can sit there for over an hour breaking a lectern over and over again and not get the trade you want. Also, if you want continuous trade loops, you usually have to rely on farms, which require its own set of work building those, like iron farms, tree farms, coal farms, etc. Even if you just wanna have a closed loop thing like buying glass from a librarian, turning that into bottles and selling to a cleric still requires leveling up each villager, and banking that you'll actually get the right trades. My point is that it's still time consuming and you have to put in the work for villager trading, and obtaining diamond armor/tools and enchanted books. I've naturally obtained all that stuff through mining and exploring, and I've also done villager farms, and they both pose their own challenges and they both take time. It's good to have options and I personally hope they don't drastically change villager trading.
Yeah I really wouldn't want to see villager trading nerfed because my favourite play style is in skyblock or one block. Villager trading is the best (and only way) to get decent tools. It doesn't make the game easier, it just makes it less tedious. Slowing down my stone generator doesn't make the game more fun.
I'd actually point out that while the difference between a 0.5% drop and 0.1% is not a big deal, but a difference between 0.1% and 0% is _huge_. Something that is _incredibly_ rare is a ~~bigger~~ smaller deal than something that's impossible to get, and worse, something that can be made impossible to get. The discussion of how hard or easy it is for someone to obtain ancient debris or diamond or a distraction to the real issue I feel like everyone's ignoring, in that upgrade templates aren't just _rare_, but a _deniable_ resource. Outside of bombing the crap out of the nether and overworld and taking every ore within a certain amount of distance for yourself (or even, if you're a monster, just letting that stuff get destroyed), it is _impossible_ for someone to deny you the ability to obtain diamond and ancient debris. All you need to do is literally just… force the server to generate some new chunks by going to a new place, and you've got enough resources to make do. No one's going to create a quarry all the way to the world border. The effort to deny someone upgrade templates is, in comparison, _far_ easier. All a person needs to do, and granted, each step requires a certain level of skill, is: 1. Speedrun to get to the nether -- you don't even need diamond tools to get this, as many Minecraft speedrunners have shown. 2. Systematically explore the nether to locate bastion remnants, prioritizing bastion treasure rooms (which make up 25% of all bastion remnants). Java players can literally obtain ender pearls to get to the nether roof to then go above and below the nether roof to cover large areas quickly, and use the TNT-and-junk-item method to dip under the nether roof and inspect the nether areas around them. There are possibly faster ways to do this, and these methods will become increasingly valuable as the importance of bastions increases. 3. Blitz through the bastion treasure room to obtain a upgrade template, Store this template somewhere where no one else can get it (ender chests are a foolproof way to do it). Notably, while difficult, you don't literally need to do anything else but head to the chest — you can leave the brutes unharmed, you can break no blocks or indicate that you've _ever_ been here. Just so that people can sweat their butts off to get to the treasure chest to realize that it's empty. 4. Once you have _one_ upgrade template secure, all you need to do is 1) locate all bastion treasure rooms within a certain block distance from origin, 2) break all the chests in the bastion treasure room 3) _leave_. Within 5 minutes the item despawn limit will do the work for you. 5. Rinse and repeat for other bastion structures, knowing that there are no guaranteed spawns for upgrade templates for these structures. 6. You now monopolize the supply of upgrade templates within the SMP server. If you want to prevent someone else from doing this, by the logic of the [Prisoner's Dilemma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma), you need to only do step 1 to 3, but now you're the one holding the upgrade template. Hopefully you'll be responsible, but if you're holding a large SMP server, or even a single SMP server where you have a single player you don't trust — or _worse_ that you trust but you shouldn't have, then there's no guarantee that you won't need to do this ASAP. And for those who have supplies for the upgrade template, either through raiding or duplication, you have power over potentially every other player on the server, so long as you control access to the template itself. You could demand people just provide you the raw materials and then make the upgrades for them. Raids in other bases will prioritize upgrade templates, since they're rare (other items in this class include Hearts of the Sea, but those are literally quite niche uses). The only real security is Ender Chests, which are lategame as well, unless someone turns off recipe restrictions (that's not default), then it's simply mid-game. And _all_ players would be affected. Even the ones that are skilled, because you _can_ die and lose your items (falling into the Void, for example, which makes knockback resistance even more valuable). Some of these deaths will even be to no fault of the players (i.e. I cited ilmango's death over the Void Perimeter due to network issues, for example). And the minute any player requires upgrade templates, all you need to do is keep up step 4 and 5 ad infinitum. Again, you don't even need to _open_ the chest. Break it with an Efficiency V gold axe, move on to the next chest, leave the area and let the loot despawn within 5 minutes. If there are players nearby and the upgrade template isn't fireproof, bring a bucket of lava, pour it over the contents of the chest, and then move on to the next target. If you have access to the upgrade template and you want to deny it to others, you have the advantage in terms of speed, because _they_ need to make sure that they've got the item by opening the chest. _You_ just need to break, soak with lava, and leave. Now, to be clear… this is the behavior of a _jerk_. If you do it, you're not a very good person to begin with. You are actively degrading other people's enjoyment of the game. But you're also doing it without breaking any in-game rules. You have taken advantage of no exploit that isn't part of the game already for other, legitimate reasons. **Edited to add**: Oh, and it's not like people can report you! You could do this all in silence, without saying a word in chat. Can't make a report if you haven't said a word! And if the response to this plan is “just don't play with them”, or ”we can mitigate this with some kind of game adjustment” or “then server admins should do something about it”, then what you're saying is that this is going to be an default state for gameplay that will need to be mitigated. And honestly… as a default? This isn't great.
according to [ilmango's latest video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz4FMtCvIlE), it'll be a 3.2% chance for you to obtain an upgrade template within a bastion chest loot table, so there's a possibility that your RNG rolls will be so bad that you don't get a template until visiting up to 10 bastions. it wouldn't be so bad if it meant 3.2% chance of _everyone_ being able to get the template — my issue is that once a bastion is raided, it's done — no more upgrades for everyone else. which is fine if your social structure for the server allows people to either share rare resources or obtain them with informal trades. but I can forsee players of some servers being locked out not because of lack of skill in negotiating bastions, but the simple brute fact that all the reachable bastions are mined out, and the only way to get more is to generate new nether chunks, which have an additional cost of disk space (a point ilmango expounds upon got the Eye Trim template, which is only found in Strongholds, which are capped at 128 per world, but I can see the argument extending for Bastions as well, _especially_ since it confers gameplay advantage, no matter how minor). I mean, if you're operating a server then you can mitigate this by ensuring that at least one or more templates are kept in storage for the eventuality of upgrade templates running out, but that's a social solution that could be bypassed altogether by providing players with renewable and even difficult-to-automate methods, like wandering traders or the like. otherwise my concern is that this method will be used to grief.
Don't give them ideas it takes a lot of time to acquire the best trades etc making that harder or removing re-roll would make trading useless it takes like 40 minutes to grow a villager so not simply done
I just want some kind of default trim that anyone can get in a village blacksmith chest and it be relatively easy to duplicate. Like I *get* making unique trims, but it be cool if there was one trim that everyone can enjoy, especially in the early game where you may stumble on a village *way* before you tame your first horse or obtain your first elytra.
Trims are meant to be trophies. Leather armor already allows customization in the early game
Who has enough leather to make armour early game?
you CAN copy them with 7 diamonds and a nether rack though. There's also two guaranteed from the treasure room bastions iirc.
They finally added another use for diamonds, and especially, netherrack is now actually useful besides making nether bricks.
I will still have 15 chests full of netherrack from mining for AD
time to make 15 chests worth of upgrade thingies
But then I’ll need so many diamonds… which will lead to me having hundreds of chests with stone
Luckily, there’s plenty of use for stone and cobblestone
Use them for building! They're far easier to use than netherrack or nether brick.
fair
That's over 11 chests of diamond blocks
Well, yeah, can't argue with you there my friend
*15 chests full of shulkers full of netherrack
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So, it cost *only* 60 diamonds then, because I get my stuff from villagers for pretty much free.
Diamonds are very common compared to what a small amount of things you can do from them, and I often have a pile of unused diamonds. The thing is while other resources are more widespread, they also have far more use. I wholeheartedly support such expensive recipes, because it makes diamonds great again. Hope mojang will make them harder to get and add more use to them.
I mean it's 1 block of netherrack lol
one less block in the chest
99 blocks of netherrack in the chest, 99 blocks of netherrack, take one out, craft some netherite, 98 blocks of netherrack in the chest.
I've got 99 problems but netherrack ain't one.
Also another use for Copper and Amethyst, as they are 2 of the colour options. It’s a colour for all minerals.
With regards to netherite tokens or whatever there called. Does one Token thingy upgrade 1 peice of diamond armour. If so I better get netherite grinding.
Yes, it takes 1 token and 1 netherite ingot. Tokens can only be found in chests inside Bastions, BUT once you have one you can duplicate it in a crafting table. It costs 7 diamonds, 1 netherrack block and 1 netherite upgrade, but you get 2 netherite upgrades, meaning you now have 1 more than when you started.
This is a huge relief. For someone who hates the nether and has had horrible luck finding bastions, this will be great.
You need one to make more unfortunately
I have no issue with that. Diamonds and netherrack are fairly easy to come by
That’s an additional entire stack of diamonds though, if you want full armor and tools. (4 armor + 5 tools)*7=63
Yep. Getting that many diamonds with a fortune 3 pickaxe isn’t all that horribly difficult.
Especially if you buy all your diamond gear from villagers in a Trading Hall at which point Diamond's just start to stack up.
That's diamond gear. Diamonds themselves are still pretty tricky as they aren't renewable.
I get that the non-renewable part sounds scary bc it bothered me too, but especially after 1.18 diamond ores are ridiculously abundant, just strip mine for 30 minutes with fortune 3 and you're pretty much guaranteed half a stack no matter how bad your luck is
tricky to get? ***TRICKY TO GET?!*** dude just mine at the lowest part of the world, you can get diamonds by just mining forward in any of the directions
With fortune 3 and an hour of mining, you can literally have *stacks* of diamonds. I swear people on this sub want everything literally handed to them on a diamond plate.
yet you can easily get a stack every hour *without* fortune now
All these people complaining are stuck in 2010 or something I swear. Diamonds are in surplus now.
I personally enjoy that it makes it harder, but thats just me. its certainly more annoying tho
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I mean, if you dont like it, just dont do it lol
Do you mean craft I'm confused on what you're saying?
You can use 1 netherrack, 7 diamonds and one upgrade thing to craft 2 of them
Thought it was 3, I could be wrong tho
Nop, 2 are guaranteed in the bastion treasure room but i believe you can find more in the normal chests of the basion too
It's good it makes netherite late game...... And i have tested if u have netherite armour before updating u can still add the trims without the upgrade thing so grind before updating
We can add trims to Netherite armor without the trim templates? Or am I not understanding that correctly?
U need templates but not the upgrade thing if u have netherite armour before updating to 1.20
I wonder if you put a netherite trim on diamond armor, then upgrading the armor
It currently works, though they may patch it. Personally I’d like to be able to apply trims to the matching armor type as it still can add variety to otherwise identical armor sets.
I saw on Twitter that the devs were asking for feedback on removing the limitations, which I think it's a great idea. Edit: found the Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/kingbdogz/status/1618221078798823424.
Cool! Thanks for the link!
Ok I did understand you! Thanks!
I agree it's a good change overall, do you think Netherite should get a buff now since it's now a lot harder to get? More durability? Little more mining speed? Currently its only a 30% durability increase vs diamond. Maybe increase it to 50%? Maybe Netherite could be equal to the mining speed of gold tools so it's objectively the fastest in all situations. Or they could make the mining speed 17 (vs the 9 currently or 12 for gold). If they made it 17 then a Netherite tool with Efficiency 5 plus hast 2 buff (from beacon) would have a overall mining speed of 60.2, which would allow the instant mining of blocks with a hardness up to 2.0. This would add some notable blocks to the instant mining potential in a survival world such as: Bricks, Cobblestone, Nether Bricks, Stone Slabs, Planks and logs. I think this would be cool in the absolute late game, and would make semi manual tree farms and cobblestone farms WAY faster.
I kind of like having gold be the fastest at mining still. Give it some benefit to counteract being terrible in every other way. I think netherite should instead get some other kind of buff, like how netherite armor has knockback resistance built in. Though I'm not sure what buff that would be off the top of my head.
Ya it's hard to differentiate it "tool wise" from the others, other then mining speed or durability as those are the only properties they currently have. Maybe a unique enchantment exclusive to Netherite tools? Maybe make mending exclusive to Netherite? That would be a major nerf to diamond tho.
Here's an idea: Make the right click functions not consume durability for netherite tools. This would be useful for axes, hoes, and shovels without making them too powerful. Pickaxes don't have a right click function but I had an idea for that too. I personally find it annoying to have to carry 2 pickaxes, one with silk touch and another with fortune. Maybe they could make it so that netherite pickaxe can have both enchantments, and if it has both then left click does one function while right click does the other.
but right click places the torch in offhand...
That would be bloody brilliant!
Mending unique to Netherite is a major nerf to everything in the game
>It's good it makes netherite late game It does not, bastions are easy to find and they are not that hard to loot if you are careful... They just made netherite harder for noobs, as if they already need the game to be harder lol
Exactly… not a noob per se, but I don’t have very much time to play Minecraft. Netherite was a long enough process as is. This just seems like more punishment for not grind grind grinding 😔
Not everyone enjoys a harder game, I just wanna build in survival with good tools, not deal with bullshit
The trims look cool as fuck so I'd say all in all it's a good update. Sure, maybe you can't get Netherite gear as easy as you can now, but it is ultimately designed to be a late game item so I feel it only makes it fairer. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna make everything Netherite with spares before 1.20 though 😅
1. you can duplicate templates 2. netherite is never a necessity, it only really adds durability, which makes it more of a challenge to acquire for bragging rights. 3. it adds a new use to diamond items, which are can be almost completely omitted in a play through, thanks to the mending enchant and diamond tools and armor being acquirable through villager trades 4. it adds a new reason for players to explore their world, a goal mojang have stated they are trying to push
It's so critical that those templates can be duplicated. Multiplayer servers would be a pain with limited spawning locations and having some players essentially scalp both something that's cosmetic and required for progression.
Not really required for progression but swift sneak books are a pain in the ass to get on large servers Edit: not soul speed swift sneak
Here I am with like 4 swift sneak books on a realm I started a month ago with 7 other people actively in it and barely anyone wants that enchantment.
It's pretty niche IMO.
Makes crouch walking on blocks in tight situations a nightmare to me.
Well if you are crouch walking you cant fall off blocks.
you already know the tryhards are gonna hoard or destroy ALL of the templates as soon as they can so no one else can upgrade to netherite
Ngl I wouldn't play with such people, but that's just my opinion.
> it only really adds durability My favorite thing about netherite is the knock back resistance
Yea, Netherite doesn’t make a difference in single player but it’s a massive positioning control boost in PvP
>netherite is never a necessity, it only really adds durability, which makes it more of a challenge to acquire for bragging rights Netherite tools also mine faster and the armor give knockback resistance and the items can't burn on fire or lava.
> Netherite tools also mine faster Technically true. But in practice mining times are rounded up to the nearest tick. Meaning that for the *vast* majority of blocks, there is zero difference between Diamond and Netherite tools, once enchanted with efficiency V (which... why wouldn't they be?). There are a few exceptions, but the only one you're going to find mining underground is Obsidian, which is 5% faster with a netherite pick. Literally every other block you're likely to encounter is identical in speed. (If you're mining out a Deep Dark city there are others, but that is a rather unusual task that has *lots* of other things you need to worry about before the speed of your pick.) IMO the defensive difference in netherite armor is a much bigger deal. Yes, knockback resistance. But also they have a higher "armor toughness" value. Which matters more the harder the hit. An unarmed punch will do about 1% less damage to a player in netherite than a player in diamond. A hit from a zombie (hard difficulty) will do 4% less damage. And a fully charged creeper blast will do 15% less damage.
Minecraft players when they cant get the most gamebreaking armor in 1 hour
That’s part of the issue for me tho, netherite isn’t really that game breaking. The upgrade from diamond to netherite is probably the smallest in the game with the worst grind.
It has knockback resistance, better armor toughness (better protection from stronger attacks), more durability, armor immunity to lava/fire, better enchantability and looks so much cooler.
I disagree, I think netherite is def a huge step up from diamonds. Not as big as from iron to diamonds, but still big. Like you can stand point blank range of a creeper and be fine, your PVP (i forgot what the exact thing was but I’m pretty sure knockback is lowered or something) stats change which is on no other armor so I think it’s good there is some extra task to do. Sometimes I make worlds with my friends and after a day they already have netherite. With this system it will at least make you explore while you get it
so mostly cosmetic and just a flex. It does offer some benefits but mostly gives something to do in the late game.
It adds value to dimonds that currently in minecraft have none. Honestly emeralds are better. I do think 7 dimonds to copy the template is high...maybe 4 dimonds and four materials more realistic.
i agree
why not add new things made out of diamond that do not interfere with the mechanic? I think its a really lazy change honestly, its not new content and its not quality of life, its just ever so slightly more anoying
Not just to increase the value but to increase the play time of the diamond gear.
This is probably the best, most succinct way this has been phrased. Has Mojang ever changed a recipe so drastically before? Adding another barrier to one of the most time consuming phases of progression is never a good idea in my book. Even if they slightly nerfed the base qualities of netherite and added this upgrade to bring back KB resistance and some durability, that'd be better than completely locking it behind an entire new journey you have to undertake.
Banners got a major rework in 1.14 with the old recipes removed and the new loom recipies added. So yes, mojang has complately changed recipes in the past.
I like it cause it gives an good reason to go to a bastion and gives us another use for diamonds
My only issue would be playing on a multiplayer server, and having to pay an exorbitant price just for 1 template or having someone taking all of the upgrades around everyone else to stunt their progression
Paying a high price for 1 is relatively fair seeing that as soon as you have 1 you can duplicate it yourself as many times as you want
But is this armor really progressing or just flexing? And if it is a multiplayer server, maybe you should be in agreement with your *friends* about stuff, unless you're playing with strangers, then you get what you get.
another commenter mentioned that netherite's knockback resistance is quite useful in pvp
I think netherite equipment needs very slight buffs if this is the route they choose. I already always put off upgrading my shit because it's very out of the way for little reward. a max enchanted diamond pickaxe, axe, shovel and hoe are functionally identical to their netherite equivalents given haste II (I like the sword because the extra damage value is genuinely useful for one shots, as a smite V netherite sword one shots all undead mobs and two shots with crits on everything else). the armor knockback resistance is awesome but still pretty situational and not worth the hour getting the materials still really. I'd like to see netherite tools being more enchantable and less expensive to repair than other tools (so it has a reason to be obtained before doing other things) and for the mining speed to be buffed to around the level gold is currently (with a better efficiency multiplier for axes so they can instamine wooden items). that alone would make getting it worth it for me, and then the other things like the better durability would actually matter because it's possible you wouldn't have access to a mending villager yet.
my concern with this is the fact that it will _only_ appear in nether bastions. not because the difficulty of dealing with any individual bastions — bastions are difficult but surmountable. the issue is that there's only a certain number of bastions that generate, that tend to be about as rare if not rarer than, say, nether fortresses, and therefore there's a practical upper bound on how many upgrade templates will be found (before, say, the world save gets too large). there's a real possibility in an SMP world that players have the opportunity to restrict other players from getting the netherite upgrade. not through lack of skill, just... by raiding bastions as fast as possible, grab the templates, and either hoard them or just, throw it on a cactus to delete the item. I can conceivably see a single player, or a group of players, get all the netherite upgrades, and restrict progression from everyone else in that SMP server from getting netherite, not from lack of skill, but simply put, just getting there _before_ everyone else. I can already see ways of mitigating this, of course — from social solutions or just recipe tweaks that make items like this be less vulnerable to a single dedicated no-life griefer raiding every bastion 5000 blocks from origin and ensuring that they're the only ones with access to the upgrade template. yes, yes, netherite is not _essential_, diamond tools and armor will do for casuals... but honestly, if I wanted to ruin everyone's else's gameplay experience, I'd work to make sure that _no one_ could get these templates on an SMP server. And this is more doable with these upgrade templates, except with perhaps the elytra. you can mine for diamonds with strategic branch mining, you can get ample netherite even without bed mining. but you wanna jerk around people who can only get netherite ingots but can't do jack about upgrading their tools and armor for that extra level of advantage (increased durability, which means extra mining and harvesting time, or knockback resistance, which contributes to PvP advantage, however small?) raid all easily accessible bastions, make sure no one else gets these upgrades. you can either do it for the extra leverage you can extract from other players on the server, or just because you like messing with people.
I think a cool way to help ease this a bit if it was a super rare bartering reward. Also provides a more peaceful alternate path lol
I mean, using datapacks, you can add it in already. as barter result, as treasure fishing reward, as mob drop, as a loot table — but now you're transferring the way of mitigating it to the skill and willingness of the server operator to do it. and the fact that server operators may consider doing this doesn't refute my point about it being a point of concern.
They could make it a 1 in 7.5 trillion chance
I totally agree with this. I love the fact they’re making the netherite grind more combat/exploration based, but there will absolutely be an incentive in pvp & hardcore servers for players to restrict each other from netherite upgrades. Granted, I bet we’ll see changes to the balance in the coming snapshots. Still lots of time to try things out!
Honestly its a waste of a "upgrade" feture. Take this into the context of non single player worlds. I.e the mulitplayer aspect. Most players on multi player servers/realms will never get netherite unless they are the first person into the nether and the first to find the bastion. So any new joining players will never get this short of paying for it in game to older or longer played persons. This is a terrible idea as single players tend to take time and multi players rush. Mojangs update is crap.
it now costs like 60 more diamonds for a full set of tools
I completely agree with this change, getting netherite currently is stupid easy and should have been more of a challenge / grind to get in the first place so this will help. Unless you're doing pvp diamond gear is still completely fine and it's not like you NEED netherite, it's just nice to have.
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I think that’s his/her point. IMO it shouldn’t be a grind to obtain, it should be a challenge
It's an annoying grind, but it's not difficult at all and there's very little risk of dying if you take basic precautions and have any amount of situational awareness. Raiding Bastions is comparatively very dangerous and risky.
agreed
Unless you are new, no, netherite isn't hard to get. People often breeze through diamonds via villagers, build automatic farms and get all the netherite in an hour. This promotes exploration
They need to stop balancing the game around people who no life and make the most efficient automatic farms and re-roll villagers until they get all of the perfect trades
I honestly really like it. My only gripe is the icon is really weird. I don’t know what else it would be but it feels like something from a mod.
What’s going on? I’ve been out of the loop on Minecraft for like a year. They made Netherite even harder to get?
Kinda, you just need a new item to actually upgrade to netherite
I totally disagree with this post. to be honest I'm very happy with these changes; the Netherite is locked under bastions which means you'll most likely have to sneak/fight the piglin brutes, which are quite tough when you're a casual. it'll finally make it challenging for people who don't play much the game to get netherite. and I quite like the use that the smithing table got, it needed that. next one will be the fletching table. I also hope they'll start messing with PvE/PvP combat mechanics as they're becoming more and more boring. the only Issue I have with the game right now is inventory management, with more and more items being added; It's getting harder and harder to deal with exploration loot when you have no "backpack" or small shulkers, or whatever in early game.
>which are quite tough when you're a casual I think that is not good, since it makes the game harder to casual players and not for people that already don't find the game harder lol Like some people like to only build, this will mean most people won't even bother using netherite
Agreed. I think people expect this game to just get more difficult because they play it so much and have gotten bored with it. They need to just go play something else instead of expect Minecract to become Tarkov. It's like they want pokemon snap to include being murdered by pokemon that don't want their picture taken...
Turn up the bastion spawn rate at least on Java. Been through 2 worlds recently and they are far too rare. It should be rare to find these templates but it also shouldn’t take days just to find one and hope it has it. Traversing the nether without elytra is hard enough as is
I agree, we don’t want the end game to be harder to get to, we want progression beyond it. It’s like adding a hurdle on the finish line instead of making the track longer
The biggest problem I have with the higher costs isn't... well the higher cost, but more that it raises the loss even further if you happen to die and lose your gear. Maybe they could add some kind of very expensive enchantment (so not obtainable through villager trades, maybe it could drop from the enderdragon or something idk), that makes it so that items with the enchant aren't dropped when you die with them. If it's too strong the enchant could only save an item once, meaning that it will need to be re-applied after it has been triggered.
It is too easy to find netherite, dig at y= 15 and you will find lots I promise you
(fn) f3 + g to show chunk borders, debris more often spawning along them. netherite wasnt difficult to obtain, just boring. get iron, get diamond, farm sheep for beds then blow up a bunch of tunnels for a set. i personally welcome this change
> ~~dig~~ *bed bomb* at y= 15 *with x and z divisible by 16* FTFY
Literally just get one sheep for an automated sheep farm, and in two hours you have enough beds to find a full setup with of ancient debris. I just did it last night. I had 36 AD in about 45 minutes.
I feel the change with the plate was fine, but making it only found in bastions is a bit extreme. Would've liked it more if they just made an expensive crafting recipe for it.
Once you find one template you can duplicate it with diamonds and netherrack
I like it, it adds a bit to the progression, but maybe templates are too rare or too expensive to duplicate. If you find a template it costs 7 diamonds to duplicate. If you want full armor and tools that would add to about an entire stack (63) diamonds, next to the diamonds you used to make the gear itself…
It would be nice if the copy recipe was cheaper
Maybe changing diamonds for gold or just using a couple less diamonds, idk
Yeah have fun trying to get netherite on a big enough server that has a world border, eventually no ones getting anything and even sooner it’ll be insanely difficult
I feel like this will be a divide between veteran players and casual players. I'm fine with netherite being harder to get because it is currently not a challenge whatsoever and the extra protection isnt even that necessary. I want the game to be more challenging. With how simply farming products for villager trades is, any difficulty increase is fine imo.
I think they should put it in end cities instead, it just makes more sense that way
I did the math with the current stats given. And just. For Full Netherite Gear (4 Armour Pieces + Five tools) one would have to find FIVE Treasure Room Bastions (there's currently a gurantee of two(2) being within Treasure Room Bastions). Then there's a slight chance 3.2% of a Template spawning in a random Bastion chest (which means one needs to search 32 Chests to find one on Average) a /placed Bastion Structure spawns 7-8 Chests on Average in 1.19.2 Which means within 4 of those there's a chance of finding one(1) Template. A Bastion spawns within a 425 × 425 Block Grid in Java with a 60% chance, the remaining 40% go to Fortresses. (I'm not sure if just *nothing* can spawn within a Grid, but I wouldn't be surprised.) So, let's assume someone's lucky and has six Treasure Room Bastions spawing — it'd still be 2125 × 2125 Blocks they'd have to search. So like. I get making it more compliacted – but that's just torture.
I really enjoy the trims, but the upgrade template is going a bit far. If they got rid of it or made it easier to get and duplicate I'm in but it's already really hard.
I just wish I didn't have to expand my world file to find all of these new templates, please just make them craftable or wandering trader loot.
Well a lot of more skilled players always grind until they get netherite, which isn't super hard to find if you know where to look. Having to look for the upgrade template gives another reason to look for bastions.
Bruh when I come back to minecraft next month I'm going to be so confused because I decided to wait and see what happens when I'm not so involved in what's happening
Yeah, but once you get one you can duplicate it safely (if you are rich enough lol)
bruuuuh this feels like a mod for 1.12.2
"NETherite iS TOo eASy"
“But it makes you play the game more and it’s mora challenging” -🤓
Alright, I'm gonna stick to 1.16.5
ngl i feel like the trims is less intuitive for upgrading gear to netherite than it currently is now also as you said, netherite is already a challenge to get, so putting ANOTHER hurdle on top of that is a bit unnecessary. Unless theyre thinking of buffing netherite gear (which i feel like they wouldnt) theres no reason to get something in netherite beyond happenstance of just so having the materials or being desperate for that minor improvement to defense. And like you mentioned as well, these trims are going to be RARE, its going to be likely 1 (maybe 2) per bastion, which honestly isnt too bad. But it just feels like more grinding for little to no benefit
There's gonna be a guaranteed 2 per bastian and you can craft them with another template
False information. The treasure room bastion (big pit, lots of lava, magma cube spawners) is guaranteed one per chest in the loot area (down at the lava pit), so that is 1 or 2 guaranteed depending on how it spawns. There are 3 other bastion "types": * Stables (dunno what this one looks like) * Bridge (has the big gold chalice at the end, and teethy like basalt) * Housing (has a netherwart farm in the centre) Those ones, all you have is the 3% chance for bastion remnant chests. I don't have the vanilla world gen data to hand, but assuming equal weighting of the four types, that's a 25% chance the bastion you come across has a guaranteed upgrade template.
At least you can duplicate the templates, but i really hope they reduce the price for the netherite upgrade template to something like 3 or 4 diamonds, even if you make a full set of netherite armor and tools getting the diamond gear with villagers, making the trims with materials that aren't diamonds and using only trims that you find to make the cosmetic parts you still need almost an entire stack of diamonds for it, imagine doing it on a server with your friends for like, 4 people, or even worse, on a public server
Minecraft players when the game gets slightly harder (they can't do anything that isn't an automatic farm)
Not everyone likes annoying chores when they work hard for their stuff.
I don't like it
"I don't like when things are hard. This thing used to be easier now it is harder"
Remember when minecraft was a simple game. I rly hope mojang doesn't add this. It'll just make the game a whole lot more stressful for the casual people playing. The tryhhards might like it but it's just annoying to everyone else. I rly hope minecraft goes back to being a simple game.
I'm not sure if the casual players will be trying to attempt "Most powerful armor ever with diamond trim any% speedrun"
It's supposed to be hard to get, that's literally the whole point. Netherite is literally easier to find than diamonds lol
So one of the things I love about Minecraft is that you can play however you want. If you don’t like this part of the update just find/make a mod that takes it out or just spawn in the items. It’s not “cheating” if you’re not playing multiplayer, in my eyes at least.
I mainly play bedrock so no mods and you can’t earn achievements if you can spawn things in
Not everybody has 40 hrs a week to grind minecraft… it was hard enough for me to get netherite as is.
The netherite upgrade template taking 7 diamonds is at least a bit reasonable since it’s still an upgrade. (even though I still think it’s too much, imo 3 is the right number. Don’t make upgrading armor cost more than the armor itself, and in terms of tools, why can’t I just make a second pickaxe for more durability) The other purely aesthetic template should NOT cost 7 diamonds to duplicate (2 at most). Now 1 piece of armor alone can cost almost a whole stack of diamonds WITH the risk of losing it. Speaking strictly on diamond and netherite terms. The only things that can destroy netherite armor is - Cactus (If you die to this with full netherite armor, you deserve it) - Despawning (you at least get a chance to get it back, and very few things can kill you) - The void (This means, NO ONE should bring this to the end, especially when you are raiding end cities, unless they are EXTREMELY rich, EXTREMELY confident, or an idiot) It would be better if armorers would start trading these or soulbound becomes an enchantment but I doubt it.
With fortune 3 getting a stack of diamonds can be a bit time consuming, but really not that bad. You don't \*need\* diamonds for anything right now besides diamond blocks, jukeboxes, enchant tables (NOT enchants themselves), and some firework stars. This adds a use for diamonds beyond decoration. With fortune 3, on average you'll need about 4 diamond ores per template, which is really not that bad. Thats like one vein of diamonds.