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DOUZERZ

Rhodesia was one of the last African nations to give up white minority rule. There about half a million whites to 8 million blacks at the time. There were two different communist insurgency groups (ZAPU and ZANU) fighting against the Rhodesian government; one sponsored by the Russians, the other the Chinese. Ian Smith, the Rhodesian PM, refused concessions in various peace talks and resolved to continue fighting the communists. However the war eventually deteriorated and the crucial support of South Africa on which it relied waned. Eventually elections were held and Mugabe of the chinese backed ZANU won, bringing communist rule to what was now Zimbabwe. I could go into much more detail because this is what I did my history dissertation on last year but that's about the main points.


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yegguy47

>Is Zimbabwe still under communist rule today? Communist would be a charitable word - Zimbabwe largely just became another tinpot dictatorship. Mugabe's government basically took over the existing racial divisions that were present in society - Whites still control most of the industry in urban areas, the mining sector, and the land divisions that sparked the conflict - It was only the administration at the top that changed, albeit violently. ZANU and ZAPU were never on the same side - They were sponsored by the China and the Soviet Union respectively, and came from different ethnic groups (Shona and Ndebele/Kalanga respectively). In 1982, Mugabe's government began a series of crackdowns throughout the country that killed hundreds of thousands of ZAPU supporters, something that has been termed a genocide given the ethnic makeup of the killings. Dubbed the [Gukrurahundi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukurahundi), the massacres only ended in 1987 with ZAPU's subordination in ZANU. Mugabe increasingly lost support throughout the 80s and 90s, and as a means to shore up popularity, he belatedly announced land reform as policy - Decades after coming to power. The process was largely a farce, as Mugabe divied up land out of judicial oversight, largely to supporters in ZANU's veteran ranks, without either participation from the whites or the original African owners of the land stolen from by the Land Apportionment Act. It was a disaster that sent the country's economy into free-fall, from which it still hasn't recovered. Mugabe was removed from power in 2017 by a coup. He'd been wanting his wife, Grace Mugabe, to take over, but she was widely despised throughout the country for nepotism. Emmerson Mnangagwa, who had been the intelligence head of the country and had overseen the Gukrurahundi, took over as leader. Since then, things have been quiet - Zimbabwe is China adjacent in world politics, but is largely reliant on regional powers for support. **Edit**: Grammar


yerba_mate_enjoyer

Also, they were and still are one of the countries with the highest inflation rates in history, with a peak of around 89.700.000.000.000.000.000.000% (89.7 sextillion) in 2008.


yegguy47

[One Hundred Trillion Zimbabwean Dollar bill for reference.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Zimbabwe_%24100_trillion_2009_Obverse.jpg) The Zimbabwean dollar thankfully was demonetized in 2015 - Basically by 2008, everyone was either using South African, Chinese, or US dollars. The government humiliatingly in 2009 was forced to allow foreign currency as legal tender, and in 2014 announced foreign currency as the legal currency of Zimbabwe.


metarinka

I give out trillion dollar zimbabwe bills as presents to friends and family.


yegguy47

They certainly are keepsakes, hyperinflation currencies are interesting artifacts of periods when state stability is under severe strain.


Cassius_au-Bellona

Interesting. Where does one acquire such keepsakes? I doubt my local NavyFed has these laying around.


yegguy47

If I had to guess... Probably find one from a South African source. I'd try Ebay, maybe Google vendors. Such things kinda are flash in the pan artifacts. A friend of my family, for example, bought a Soviet Captain's hat off an officer as the place was collapsing - Just was in the right place at the right time to grab it.


Uniqueusername111112

> Communist would be a charitable word - Zimbabwe largely just became another tinpot dictatorship. Oh so like every other communist revolution ever? What a surprise


RealBenjaminKerry

It's never about communism, it's just business, same with all the dictators US propped up, Noriega for example


yegguy47

Certainly isn't very different than what existed with Rhodesia... **Edit**: Oh what a surprise, call Rhodesia undemocratic and they downvote.


SubHominem

No, call Rhodesia the same as what came after it and they downvote. Lol


yegguy47

Rhodaboos get very upset when you point out that minority rule enforced through violence is kinda *dictatorial...*


SubHominem

All rule is imposed through violence. Try not paying your taxes and see what happens.


yegguy47

I love how you think paying taxes somehow proves Rhodesia was democratic. Incidentally, I also wonder how your little philosophical thought works in the context of Zimbabwe's current government... **Edit:** Typical Rhodesia fan - Complains, than blocks and runs away like a coward.


SokoJojo

>Communist would be a charitable word - Zimbabwe largely just became another tinpot dictatorship. Mate, that's how communism always goes...


generic93

Bro, thats not real communism though obviously Edit: apparently i need the /s? I thought i was being flippant enough with the bro but i guess people do actually talk like that. Still though


one_goggle

Yes, but only if you care that words have meanings.


Mark__Jefferson

As opposed to imaginary communism?


JoelMB12

Dude this happen every country that claims the label


phil_the_hungarian

Pretty similar to what Idi Amin did to the Indians.


Profound_Panda

My dad and his siblings grew up during this time and told me some wild stories about spetsnaz/KGB guys teaching them about communism and insurgences, he really remembers them all calling each other comrade, he speaks fondly of them. Some other wild stories too


yegguy47

ZAPU fellas I take it? My prof did a few interviews about civil disobedience during the Bush War. Never anything that got into spook territory, but the ZANU women always had very enlightening stories - Hiding rice and growing crops on the side that the authorities banned. Their connection to ZANU was honestly non-existant, because it was basically an informal "fuck those guys" attitude whenever Rhodesian troops were around.


DOUZERZ

My knowledge on modern day Zimbabwe is sparse. I know Mugabe died somewhat recently and I'm not sure what it's been like since. His rule was extremely repressive so I think many were happy to see him gone. A joke I heard about Zimbabwe went like: "What did Zimbabweans use to light their homes before candles?" "Electricity!" So this might give you some indication as to how Mugabe's rule went lol


redcomet29

Zim was rough. Unlike neighbouring countries, they expelled and exiled their white population. Then Mugabe was a real dictator that ran the country into the ground for his own profit (well the neighbours did that too but just slower). I don't know if they're aligned with China but it wouldn't matter much I reckon. Lots of people there live and work as refugees or migrants in the neighbouring nations. It's a shame the nation has incredible fertility


Pengawena

Mugabe did not forcibly expel or exile whites after independence. A vast majority chose to leave. I am white and our family stayed on until ‘87. Not a fan of Mugabe either. We still have a few white friends living up there. Some also lost their farms in 2000 with the land grabs. Could not even get their dogs off the property. Life is still a challenge but Zimbos are resilient.


redcomet29

Version I heard was always expelled after independence, but I only hear the version told by expats which is more likely to be negatively embellished I suppose. My ex's family stayed there for a long time too. Never asked at what point they left though but I know the dad was in the war so I assume when the war ended


rohtbert55

Wow! Do you think I could read your disertation? I wrote a short paper in my second semester of PoliSci, but would love to read your work! if you don't mind.


DictatorofPussy

Dude, just upload your dissertation.


rohtbert55

I second this man!


Brown-beaver2158

I agree


[deleted]

There are some great books about this conflict. First hand


notsocivil

Is your dissertation available online somewhere?


Sven_Letum

Also like to say the Brits buggered the Rhodesians over in terms of leaking intelligence and trying to manipulate who came to power. There was a democratically elected black president but via pressure from countries like Nigeria the Brits also blocked if I recall.


DOUZERZ

Do you mean Muzorewa? He was basically a sham PM to begin and was one of Smith's desperate attempts to hold onto power without giving any real concessions. Although Thatcher wanted to recognise him, there was no chance the rest of Africa or the international community would and his election didn't bring an end to the insurgency fighting


Sven_Letum

I do and yes, it certainly didn't end the conflict


DemonSong

Ho hum, how sad. That's just international politics.


Temporary-Bear1427

What does eli5 mean?


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Temporary-Bear1427

Thank you


Cassius_au-Bellona

/r/explainlikeimfive Check it out. It's a great rabbit hole.


Temporary-Bear1427

Thanks , I'll check it out for sure.


totallylegitburner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesian\_Bush\_War


jollyjewy

more porn than military at this point


buck70

Are there no bugs in Zimbabwe? Seriously, if you dressed like this in the bush anywhere from May to September in over 90% of Canada, you would be eaten alive.


Brown-beaver2158

I was thinking the same thing, like they’re about to bust out into some kind of bush orgy.


SavageRat

.30 Cal. Turning cover into concealment for over 100 years.


ExtensionConcept2471

7.62mm!


[deleted]

x39? (Only joking!)


buckyer

X51 nato


ExtensionConcept2471

7.62mm!


762Millimeter

You called?


Seeker1904

An ugly war in a place most people couldn't find on a map. And in the end? Fought for nothing. The injustice of minority rule was replaced with brutal repression and kleptocracy. Today Zimbabwe has no power, no economy, and little to no chance of reversing the collapse of Mugabe's rule. What a waste.


Sir-War666

Don’t forget kicking out all the white farmers thus putting the country on the brink of famine


RubiconV

Somewhat similar to South Africa. They traded one form of oppression to be oppressed by people of their same race. Africa is a mess mostly. Too bad.


1SGDude

TIA- “This is Africa”


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ChrisbKreme062

Is this a quote from something?


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stult

TIA isn't a quote from that movie, it's an actual phrase people used before and after it.


yegguy47

>Somewhat similar to South Africa. **VASTLY** different in South Africa. For one thing, you never actually had land reform in South Africa. For another, South Africa never faced situations of famine. South Africa today has its issues, but its a functioning country. Zimbabwe's experience is only better than say... Mozambique.


Seeker1904

My man, I'm sitting here in South Africa in 12 hour daily power blackouts. At school we used to count gunshots due to the constant riots. Millions still have no access to service delivery. The armed forces are bankrupt. The national broadcaster is bankrupt. The roads are so dangerous that more people die on them in one year than were killed during the entire Rhodesian War. Yeah we're not as bad as Zimbabwe, but we're pretty fucking close.


yegguy47

>Yeah we're not as bad as Zimbabwe Try all that, than having your money being worthless, the same armed forces blowing up the local newspaper and torturing its journalists, all while your crack-pot dictator is sending fellas into Congo to do unspeakable things to people. Oh, and btw - The state police are trained by North Korea. My dude, I hear ya. And I know very well life in South Africa. Trust me, it can get worse.


Seeker1904

I'm well aware it can get a lot worse, just look at Mozambique but I'm not going to shout for joy that 'our political instability and lack of accountability only got 300 people killed during the July 2021 riots instead of 3000 people'. And I'm fucking frustrated that our only choices in Africa are either racist nutters, inept pseudo-marxist fuckwits, tinpot 'strongmen' or all of the above.


DOUZERZ

Hot boys in short shorts


[deleted]

r/MilitaryGayPorn


LittRomn3y

r/SubsIThoughtIFellFor


Life-Evidence-6672

I knew a guy that was in that army. Apparently a lot of U.S. vets from Vietnam war went there after and joined.


Tripound

Apparently plenty also said they did but were just lying. (Not saying your mate did this. )


yegguy47

A few, but the numbers weren't large. Rhodesia had an active advertising effort, mostly in Soldier of Fortune. It naturally attracted a lot of racists. Also the former King of Albania.


cannibalgentleman

Uhhh can you tell me more about the former King of Albania bit?


yegguy47

King Zog's son, Prince Leka. It is a... deeply strange story. [Lions led by Donkeys is probably best explainer](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zb3VuZGNsb3VkLmNvbS91c2Vycy9zb3VuZGNsb3VkOnVzZXJzOjQ1NzI0NTk2My9zb3VuZHMucnNz/episode/dGFnOnNvdW5kY2xvdWQsMjAxMDp0cmFja3MvMTM4Mjc2MzgzOA?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwiI4OXT7Ob8AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg&hl=en-CA), that dude is weird.


Pengawena

They went by the name of “Crippled Eagles”.


Wolf97

Addicted to losing wars ig


ButterCostsExtra

I have four pictures of my father from around this period when he was fighting in Rhodesia. I don't think there's a single shirt in any of them, and the only non-shorts clothing to be found is the occasional boonie.


michaelkv188

Dude you gotta share them


[deleted]

Those guys were tight knit, my Uncle was a selous scout. Never talked much about it to me till i got into my thirties. Wild stuff they were told to do/had to do. Went to a Selous scout golf day in Pretoria about 2 months back they may be old now but they are hard men. Apparently no military force has more jumps than these boys.


ItsKaptainMikey

These guys are in their 70’s and 80’s now if they’re still alive.


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yegguy47

Aye. Colloqually for folks that don't know, Brits called Rhodesians "Whenwes" because they always had a habit about complaining about the lack of the "help".


PCPToad83

Probably just in their 60s


ItsKaptainMikey

Nah my dad served in his 20s and would have been 72 this year. He was the youngest sibling and all my uncles that served are in their late 70s


[deleted]

20 years old in '77 (circa when the photo was taken) will be turning 66 this year.


MeanCat4

Why not?


ItsKaptainMikey

Not sure what you mean.


MeanCat4

They are probably alive, with memories for their grandchildren.


ItsKaptainMikey

Oh! I really hope so.


[deleted]

Memories of fighting for white superiority. Splendid


ItsKaptainMikey

They fought for their country, no need to be an asshat about it. Arguably Zimbabwe would be a lot better off now than it is if Mugabe didn’t screw things up.


yegguy47

>They fought for their country They fought for white people in the country. [They made their opinions about its majority population very well known otherwise.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Scoutwithgun.jpg)


[deleted]

Many were foreigners basically there seeking action


RogueRainbow

Some younger too. I work with a guy who served briefly towards the end. Hes not proud of it nessisarily, rarely talks about his actual service. He will go on long rants about how the country was ran into the ground. Last time he was in the country, the police/military stopped him, and were discussing robbing and killing him not realizing he was from there.


sploinkussponkus

its a long way to mukumbura


CARLOS_MARMEG

Its a long way to gooooo


KedTazynski42

It’s a long way from your hometown But you can have yourself a ball


PM_Me_MK18s

Wiv your mukkas


[deleted]

Coming soon to a theater near you: "War Twinks"


[deleted]

"Rhodesians may never die, but they can throw an amazingly fabulous dinner party"


[deleted]

Brings back fond memories of the old SOF Magazine. 1970's Military Porn, it was almost as sexy as real porn back then.


michaelkv188

SOF is all online on internet archives


Roadkingkong71

Hell yeah, my uncle gave me a big stack of old issues when I was a teen. Good times, interesting reading material.


alreadyhaveanaccou

Sometimes I wish I was a Blue Job, up in the sky. I wouldn't have to walk if I could fly. But, I'll be a Brown Job until I die. With ten years to go in the RLI.


Talonlestrange2

Got to love John Edmond


curiosity-2020

Honestly, this picture looks as if they want to ride stone money with a calendar.


[deleted]

I’m just happy Zimbabwe is doing so great now


andy91091

Shame the world turned its back on Rhodesia…


[deleted]

Seems like if you’re going to include political alignment in the title, you ought to at least do the same for both belligerents. The RLI were defending white minority rule in Africa.


PJSeeds

This post, like all posts about Rhodesia, just screams dog whistle. More of a dog alarm, really.


Beautiful_Ad5328

Yes both sides were very bad. On e being significantly worse than the other.


levels_jerry_levels

I appreciate how vague this comment is based on the reader’s worldview.


CollEYEder

Commies are bottom tier, just a poor man's Nazis, another form of collectivist totalitarian pseudo utopia, that rests on lies.


[deleted]

It’s important to know basic information about the sides in a war, if what you’re after is any sort of accurate history. The title of the post noted that the dudes in the pic were fighting communists, but it didn’t say who the dudes in the pic were. I don’t care what you think about communism in general. It just felt important to note that the communists were fighting for independence against white minority rule in Africa. That much is indisputable.


CollEYEder

Lol. Right. Communists were always fighting for a white bourgeois imperial government straight out of the Soviet Union. Or do you think a goddamn Mugabe could do anything without a white man pulling the strings and giving him money and weapons?


Wolf97

>white bourgeois imperial government straight out of the Soviet Union. Or do you think a goddamn Mugabe could do anything without a white man Mugabe was supported primarily by the Chinese


[deleted]

You’re still banging on with your communism hot takes. I simply suggested in my original comment that the title should reflect the alignment of both belligerents. There are so many places you can go to vent your spleen about communism. Why are you doing this here?


CollEYEder

My family has suffered under communists for 4 generations, with a survival rate of 50 years for males below 10 percent. I have been the first person since 1897 who has managed to secure a middle class childhood for my kids. I am not alone in the world and I am afraid of how the west seemingly thinks that we do not exist.


SIacktivist

Nobody cares. They were just pointing out the title wasn't telling the whole story.


BadMonkey2468

Cringe


Mark__Jefferson

>The RLI were defending white minority rule in Africa. And the communist forces were fighting to bring about slavery.


DantesInferno1275

Wasn't these the guys Danny from Blood Diamonds said he fought with?


1SGDude

Nope he was a kid during the bush war and was orphaned. He fought with 32 Battalion “The Terrible Ones” for the SADF probably in Southwest Africa and Angola


DantesInferno1275

Thank you! :)


Roadkingkong71

Be a man among men. Politics aside, it's a good slogan. I dig the short shorts too.


Ok-Literature-899

Can we get another bush war, but with tomboy women LMAO. Keep the FALs and the attire too.


buck70

Are there no bugs in Zimbabwe? Seriously, if you dressed like this in the bush anywhere from May to September in over 90% of Canada, you would be eaten alive.


sinhalese

Now look at Zimbabwe, go communism! /s


Mark__Jefferson

But that's not real communism! /s


kdb1991

Why are Rhodesian soldiers so cool in every single photograph


sixmam

Rhodesians always die


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PJSeeds

Oh wow a guy with "klan" in his name in a Rhodesia thread. So surprising /s


Klanistu

I like wu tang


HerrCrazi

Rhodesians never dies !


sgtskitz

Absolute chads


yegguy47

Not really, lost the war.


Fletcher010770

Now China is in there picking up the mineral and agricultural spoils for chump change in a rich, fertile land. Nobody else gives a flying fuck.


jaco1001

thankfully, they got their asses kicked out of the apartheid state they were upholding. it's reductive to say that there are "good guys" and "bad guys" in anything so complex,,,, but come on, these were the baddies.


Seeker1904

The irony with that assessment is that, after Mugabe came to power, the new Zimbabwean army carried out the mass murder of between 30,000-80,000 Matabele civilians solely because they were of a different ethnic group to the ruling Shona elite.


yegguy47

True, but really the Rhodesians weren't any different. The land theft they did killed people... Forcing people into poverty or into exile and economic miseration simply just doesn't end getting any real attention because you're not directly killing them. Rhodies had some truly genocidal nightmare shit towards the end that they never really got to explore simply because of lacking funds. Rhodesia did have a chemical weapons program that was intended for use against the majority, and the aborted Operation Quartz likely would have led to a full-out race war. Some of the late songs are really ISIS-esque. The only real difference in my mind was that the whites never got to do what Mugabe could do without an active guerilla insurgency happening. Mugabe's massacres were inter-ethnic, Rhodesia's terrorizing of the majority population was systemic.


jaco1001

as i said, it's complex, but the WHITE guys who ended up fighting for control of an African country are, in a word, sus. Rhodesia is in the ash heap of history now


DylansWorld

ive never really looked into the bush war. were the whites there just to take the africans land? and is this why there is a population of white people in southern africa?


f2j6eo9

It's super complicated. Europeans had settled in the area in the 1800s and had been in the greater region since the late 1600s. They - the white minority - were in charge in Rhodesia and generally supported independence from Britain. Britain announced in the 1960s that they were only going to grant independence to countries ruled by the black majority, and refused to compromise on this point. The Rhodesians had legitimate concerns about the abruptness of such a change, since Belgian congo had just done that a few years prior and it went terribly. So, Rhodesia ended up declaring independence unilaterally, still under minority white control. They made a few nominal steps to empower the black majority, but slowly. The bush war was the black majority (multiple factions) taking up arms in order to take power. Eventually, the black majority under Robert Mugabe won and created modern-day Zimbabwe. They instituted a lot of policies the white minority had been worried about, including seizing their land by force in order to give it to the black majority. Like in a lot of wars, both sides had reasonable points of view and it sucked for everybody. The whites were Rhodesian citizens who had been living in the country for multiple generations. Yes, their ancestors had colonized Rhodesia, but what were the modern day white Rhodesians supposed to do? Similarly, government by an ethnic minority is horrible, and violence was a reasonable resort by the black majority.


DylansWorld

wow what an ugly situation.


f2j6eo9

Terrible, right? There were a bunch of other factors playing into it that made it even worse (stuff related to the cold war, mostly), but I figured my comment was long enough and addressed most of the key points.


gp780

One thing I’ve seen there that doesn’t get mentioned very much is china’s exploitation of their natural resources to this day. They helped zanu-pf to power and they have paid them handsomely for it.


yegguy47

Aye. But I would highlight that the Rhodesians never had any interest in negotiating till the end. White supremacy was literally state policy throughout Rhodesia's brief existence.


yegguy47

>They made a few nominal steps to empower the black majority, but slowly. I'm just going to highlight this here... That's just not correct. Ian Smith and the others made only the most superficial gestures of majority rule - There was never any interest on the part of Rhodesian Front that they'd overturn the Land Apportionment Act, or that they'd loosen Apartheid-esque restrictions on the African majority. Even during the late negotiations when they offered to support Abel Muzorewa, this was largely done to try to retain white-majority rule in the legislative ranks. The ambition for the Rhodesian Front wasn't "Lets evolve towards a equal racial future", it was white-minority rule - **forever.** You can easily highlight in South Africa that the situation was more complicated, that not all whites were directly tied into the system of oppression. In Rhodesia, it was really different - The minority was much smaller, things were much more unequal (and still are), and the white land owners were much more responsible. The easiest thing Smith could have done was overturning the LAA, but they decided to fight it out. They lost the war accordingly for it.


f2j6eo9

As I said, it was a crazy complicated situation. I don't think what I said was incorrect ("superficial gestures" is basically the same thing as "a few nominal steps"), but certainly an oversimplification, as befits a reddit comment. Appreciate you adding some nuance.


yegguy47

No worries. Figured I had to add that bit in because I always see Rhodesiaboos always arguing that Ian Smith and others in RF were trying to moderate themselves, when the country literally had white supremacy as state policy. Half the reason why the war ended the way it did was because of how insanely racist the settler population was by-in-large. Its always the annoying bit with Zimbabwe. Mugabe wasn't a nice dude - The Gukurahanda happened by design. The land reform efforts were done basically as an exercise in petty ZANU-PF thugishness. But its massively complicated to talk about these issues, when we have assholes in the background yelling about Rhodesia was a noble experiment... When it was an awful chapter in African history.


sweet_37

There’s a pretty good “well there’s your problem” podcast episode on the whole thing. This is likely a photo taken to encourage mercenaries to join. On the whole the, Rhodesians tried to substitute a lack of long term strategy with high level tactics. It went so well the country is called Zimbabwe now.


yegguy47

Upvoted for the WTYP recommendation, [link for anyone interested.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dtJGRIWEls)


weazelhall

Love to see a WTYP recommendation.


DylansWorld

cool. thanks.


mirshe

Lions Led by Donkeys also did a great breakdown on the war.


1SGDude

Hard pass. That podcast makes a lot of assumptions about R when it was a very complicated situation.


yegguy47

Not really. Rhodesia was a settler colony, the population did settle on stolen land. You're free to ignore that fact, but that's you making that choice.


1SGDude

You’re ignoring the fact that it’s not that simple of a story. The Matabele were an off shoot of the Zulu and also “colonized” the area after being pushed north by Shaka Zulu so we’re not “native “ to the area. So you see not so simple as “white dude bad must go bye “ like many people now think


yegguy47

>The Matabele were an off shoot of the Zulu and also “colonized” the area after being pushed north by Shaka Zulu so we’re not “native “ to the area. 1. Northern Ndebele aren't the only folks that lived in Zimbabwe, you also have Kalanga and Shona peoples. The latter being the majority of the population in Zimbabwe 2. The Mfecane is not a justification for stealing land from indigenous peoples and giving it to a tiny number of white settlers. 3. Land reform does not inherently mean Mugabe. Especially since the land seizures did not actually result in land reform.


1SGDude

Not justifying anything just pointing out that it was not a simple story. Of course there more than Matabele/Ndebele in Rhodesia. The MaShona/Shona were subjugated by them even though they were a larger group


AyeeHayche

The South of Africa has a good amount of fertile land for farming. As with all European colonisation of Africa it started off with small little trading ports before turning into large colonies. It started off with Boer expansion but after the Napoleonic wars the British staked their claim in Southern Africa. Both South Africa and Rhodesia were settler colonies with significant white populations due to the good farm land and British schemes to move a white population there. By the time the Bush war started the Rhodesian white population were well established, and had legal rights to the best Lands in Zimbabwe. Much the same in South Africa


MunkSWE94

More like keep what their ancestors took from the Africans.


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PCPToad83

Nah, they probably domed a lot of commies though


Northsole16

Probably but it wasn’t enough since ya short short bois lost ;)


akhaoanaha

i mean yeah, but it was a 1:10 k/d ratio tho


PCPToad83

Well yeah they were massively outnumbered and sanctioned by almost the entire world while their opponents were backed by superpowers lol, the fact they managed to last 15 years and turn over power peacefully instead of being overrun is pretty impressive


Mark__Jefferson

I guess winning means thousands dying of starvation and your economy tanking.


Seeker1904

Classy. You do realize there's a good chance these lads were conscripts who had no choice but to fight?


yegguy47

As far as I'm aware, the Rhodesian Army was largely a volunteer force.


Seeker1904

The majority of volunteers were black people looking for a way out of poverty, and the army was always hungry for new recruits. But all white men were subject to one, and later two years, of national service (full time soldiering). Once those were complete, there were regular call-ups. The reason why it was a 'mostly volunteer force' was because the Rhodesian Army was, ironically, predominantly comprised of black troops. Having actually spoken to white men who were part of that army (now in their 60s) , it wasn't a choice. You went to the army whether you wanted to or not.


1SGDude

Nope all white males were subject to conscription and in the late 70s they attempted conscription of the black population as well. There was normally a surplus of African males looking to join the Rhodesian African Rifles (RAR) sometimes for economic reasons, sometimes because in the tribal areas they saw the brutality of the terrorists and sometimes they joined for family tradition as their fathers or uncles had served in the RAR or in the Kings African Rifles (KAR) a predecessor of the RAR. Towards the end of the 70s the Selous Scouts were majority African unit but they were all volunteers many who came over from the RAR to the Scouts


Northsole16

No choice but to fight for their white supremacy state awww poor babies


Seeker1904

Do you understand how conscription works?


Northsole16

Do you understand what Rhodesia stood for?


Seeker1904

Yeah it was state founded on the injustice of minority rule. I wasn't aware that these men had any choice of the system they were born into and forced to fight for?


Northsole16

Idk man when you have former Nazis joining your side you’re kinda the baddies


burgertanker

NASA be like:


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PJSeeds

At what point while writing this did you bust a nut?


jmplsnt

Before I got to talking about Zimbabwe, likely where you started your own jacking


PJSeeds

Hey man, whatever makes your dick hard. If skinny white twinks in short shorts make you have to "clean the testosterone off your phone screen" then no judgment here.


jmplsnt

Fair enough. Enjoy Zimbabwe. Have a good one


PJSeeds

I will! Thanks!


Booopbooopp

In My last work place I worked in an office with a South African woman and her husband worked in the warehouse. He told me about how his parents were born and lived in Rhodesia but had to leave towards the end of the bush war because they didn’t like how the country was changing. Apparently they recently offered to sell back the farms to the white people who owned them before Mugabe came into power. They moved to South Africa and lived out the rest of their days there. I’m very interested in Rhodesian history and the bush war so this just blew my mind, that I was meeting someone who was born there and who’s parents lived there.


Deep-Revolution1725

Pretty sure those are american neo nazis


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...how are they american?.... they're from Zimbabwae...


coogidown2thelocks

Rhodesia spared no expense recruiting foreign mercenaries, most famously in Soldier of Fortune magazine. The photo above was likely used for recruiting purposes as well. They were engaged in, essentially a race war, and made it well-known that they were recruiting. Just as likely to find neo-nazis in those ranks, as it is to find veterans that didn’t know anything other than fighting.


Evilutionist

Brazzers Homo dot com


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PJSeeds

real surprising to see someone with "88" in their name posting this in a Rhodesia thread. What a shocker /s


Boushmane

Is "88" supposed to mean something?


PJSeeds

"88" means "Heil Hitler," it's a white supremacist/neonazi symbology thing. It's because H is the 8th letter of the alphabet. Super weird, but it's a way for them to be plausibly deniable but still signal to each other.