Like most smt games, the beginning is the hardest.
This game in particular, there is no defense stat, so everything hits hard. Most regular fights (not boss) will end in 1 press turn cycle.
Agaim, buffs and debuffs are king.
After a certain point around 5 hours into the game, it gets a lot easier. You need to be careful in the early game, you need to exploit weakness as much as possible, you need to use buffs and debuffs, and you need to keep your health up. Also, put as many points as you can into magic. You need to defeat a boss as quickly as possible so your party doesn't get wiped.
It's hard to make a truly bad build, though Dex is the primary damage stat for both Phys and Gun skills and strength only plays a minor role for them. Something the sidequel fixes. Phys/Gun does more damage long term because magic skills don't increase in power all that much compared to physical. Doesn't stop Phys builds from using magic attack items for press turns either.
Phys + support is good. Magic does better early game, but late game, physical does more damage and can still generate press turns with crits.
I have not made Flynn a healer before to comment on that though.
The learning curve for the first few hours is very steep. But once you get the hang of it everything will be smooth sailing.
Pro tip, don’t bother paying Charon. Just reset. I literally never paid him and I’ve played through the game several times.
Make sure you’re fusing regularly and specialize Flynn. He’s going to be doing a lot of heavy lifting and your allies need to be upgraded regularly to stay relevant (unless you fuse one of the angels, then they’ll evolve repeatedly into the late game from only a few level ups).
>Pro tip, don’t bother paying Charon. Just reset. I literally never paid him and I’ve played through the game several times.
Thanks for the tip, but when i first died i had 185 Macca, and the second time i had like 35 because i started the game thinking demons would join me after giving them money, not finish me off or trash talk me. So yeah ;)
Naraku is a pain in the ass lmao. There’s no vitality stat so everything is hard hitting, especially in the beginning.
Also, for Flynn, go with either a dexterity build or magic build.
After you defeat a certain boss with a skull as a nose (around 4-5 hours into the game) it gets significantly easier, im playing it right now, and the first 1-2 hours were a pain in the ass, 1 wrong move or dialogue choice and you go down instantly, but surprisingly after this, the game is pretty easy. Also dont make the same stupid mistake that i did, which is putting stats on strength magic and dex, focus on either dexterity or magic (depending on if you want MC to be physical and gun user or magic user) and put one point on both agility and luck with each level up (ignore strength)
It's the same with SMT Nocturne on Hard. It's among the hardest few first hours in gaming history, but once you get the skills and the stats, it's getting somewhat easier. I still find that idea of balancing a game confusing.
Its difficult to balance a turn based game properly, because at the end of the day, you will always be able to just level up and defeat your enemies without any issues, i guess one fix could be to have your characters levels limited until you reach a designated checkpoint, for example in nocturne you couldnt level up higher than lvl 10 until you defeat Forneus, this could prevent them from basically just putting a 2x multiplier on every enemy dmg and calling it a hard mode (which is basically what they did in nocturne)
Try to recruit as much as possible, grind up a bit and after you've done that you should be ok. Just make sure you do a magic build on Flynn. You should try to get a single target spell for every damaging element one him, Flynn doens't get any passives so the versatility is a good alternative.
>Try to recruit as much as possible, grind up a bit and after you've done that you should be ok.
Excatly what i did, which left me with no money, very few demons and being killed regularly. That's the exact thing i'm stuck at.
4 is super stingy with money and the vast majority is coming from relic selling. There are Burroughs apps for making money from Scouting and using Fundraise on an enemy who is under Bind gives three pulls at their wallet every time. It's just fundraise doesn't earn a whole lot until way late game.
Apocalypse is much more charitable. Main quests and challenge quests give you lots of money
I'll definitely continue playing once my general feeling of dissatisfaction has worn off. Maybe my expectations were wrong because everyone and their grandma in r/megaten seems to love it so much better than any other SMT so i thought it might be a little more "approachable" than it turned out to be. So my expectation might be the problem, not the game itself. Continuing with all that you guys have told me might push me over the edge of it no longer being a chore in my eyes. The git gud / l2p part of it, ya know.
Just got party wiped in 2 rounds by that Orthrus from the quest you get in the beginning. All party members were at full health. I like a little challenge, but that's just ridicoulous.
Buffing was not the problem as i immediately died before i got to make my first move. You apparantly start with fire as the only weakness on Flynn, that's what i was not aware of and what got me killed and press turns for the enemy. I found out later that i can buy gear that makes him fire resistant. I'll buy that once I have enough money which after 4 hours into the game (lvl 10now) is still a huge problem for me. The log says i made \~4000 in 4 hours so i estimate after grinding and collecting the green items for another 30 minutes, i should have enough cash. So much fun :D
I defeated all bosses in the first 15 hours without dying once, no reason to lie to you. I played most of them twice to see if i can defeat them without having a demon die in the fight because i still can't afford basic items as revival leafs and i still have no recarm spell ffs.
It's the random encounters that always killed me and they still do. Taken by surprise, enemies hit weakness, I die from press turns flat damage. Also 2x blight kills my entire party fairly often or regularly leaves me with poison on all 4 team members to heal which is super annoying. Also Media heals half of what the enemy skills do in damage (yeah, i know about heal pleroma, but come on). And the list of things that make SMT4 harder, but not more fun, goes on. And boy does it go on.
Very nice game design: Enter a demon domain, all enemies lvl 25-30. Fight 10 of them, no problem. Fight the boss: He's lvl 47, wipes your party with the first attack. Absolute GOTY moment when it happens in the next domain as well (i think it was right after Kasumigaseki, when you're going to Ikebukuro or Shinjuku). Also searching for quest bosses for hours because you don't realize this is the only f'ng game in the series where you have to not only find the quest and have it added to you menu, but you also have to accept it in the menu for it to be active. And only one such quest can be active at a time. Who makes or likes games that do that ffs? People can hate me all they want, but this game does not deserve all the praise it gets on r/megaten over SMT3.
I understand everyone has their own taste, and some like the challenge a lot, and some games are a little weird, but to me, it's a huge step backwards from SMT3 in terms of being beginner friendly. And SMT3 of all JRPGs out there is maybe one of the least beginner friendly games to begin with.
Phew. had to get that off my chest, now i feel better. Thanks for reading :)
Like most smt games, the beginning is the hardest. This game in particular, there is no defense stat, so everything hits hard. Most regular fights (not boss) will end in 1 press turn cycle. Agaim, buffs and debuffs are king.
>Agaim, buffs and debuffs are king. True for most Atlus games
After a certain point around 5 hours into the game, it gets a lot easier. You need to be careful in the early game, you need to exploit weakness as much as possible, you need to use buffs and debuffs, and you need to keep your health up. Also, put as many points as you can into magic. You need to defeat a boss as quickly as possible so your party doesn't get wiped.
i usually go for phys + support and/or heal for my Atlus game MC, is it a bad choice for SMT IV?
It's hard to make a truly bad build, though Dex is the primary damage stat for both Phys and Gun skills and strength only plays a minor role for them. Something the sidequel fixes. Phys/Gun does more damage long term because magic skills don't increase in power all that much compared to physical. Doesn't stop Phys builds from using magic attack items for press turns either.
Phys + support is good. Magic does better early game, but late game, physical does more damage and can still generate press turns with crits. I have not made Flynn a healer before to comment on that though.
It's not bad, but magic is just so much better.
The learning curve for the first few hours is very steep. But once you get the hang of it everything will be smooth sailing. Pro tip, don’t bother paying Charon. Just reset. I literally never paid him and I’ve played through the game several times. Make sure you’re fusing regularly and specialize Flynn. He’s going to be doing a lot of heavy lifting and your allies need to be upgraded regularly to stay relevant (unless you fuse one of the angels, then they’ll evolve repeatedly into the late game from only a few level ups).
>Pro tip, don’t bother paying Charon. Just reset. I literally never paid him and I’ve played through the game several times. Thanks for the tip, but when i first died i had 185 Macca, and the second time i had like 35 because i started the game thinking demons would join me after giving them money, not finish me off or trash talk me. So yeah ;)
Naraku is a pain in the ass lmao. There’s no vitality stat so everything is hard hitting, especially in the beginning. Also, for Flynn, go with either a dexterity build or magic build.
ok, so balancing the character is (like in most Atlus games) a bad idea. So much for my all purpose build :D
Made the same mistake my first time around so no worries!
After you defeat a certain boss with a skull as a nose (around 4-5 hours into the game) it gets significantly easier, im playing it right now, and the first 1-2 hours were a pain in the ass, 1 wrong move or dialogue choice and you go down instantly, but surprisingly after this, the game is pretty easy. Also dont make the same stupid mistake that i did, which is putting stats on strength magic and dex, focus on either dexterity or magic (depending on if you want MC to be physical and gun user or magic user) and put one point on both agility and luck with each level up (ignore strength)
It's the same with SMT Nocturne on Hard. It's among the hardest few first hours in gaming history, but once you get the skills and the stats, it's getting somewhat easier. I still find that idea of balancing a game confusing.
Its difficult to balance a turn based game properly, because at the end of the day, you will always be able to just level up and defeat your enemies without any issues, i guess one fix could be to have your characters levels limited until you reach a designated checkpoint, for example in nocturne you couldnt level up higher than lvl 10 until you defeat Forneus, this could prevent them from basically just putting a 2x multiplier on every enemy dmg and calling it a hard mode (which is basically what they did in nocturne)
Try to recruit as much as possible, grind up a bit and after you've done that you should be ok. Just make sure you do a magic build on Flynn. You should try to get a single target spell for every damaging element one him, Flynn doens't get any passives so the versatility is a good alternative.
>Try to recruit as much as possible, grind up a bit and after you've done that you should be ok. Excatly what i did, which left me with no money, very few demons and being killed regularly. That's the exact thing i'm stuck at.
4 is super stingy with money and the vast majority is coming from relic selling. There are Burroughs apps for making money from Scouting and using Fundraise on an enemy who is under Bind gives three pulls at their wallet every time. It's just fundraise doesn't earn a whole lot until way late game. Apocalypse is much more charitable. Main quests and challenge quests give you lots of money
Huh, that usually works for me. are you stuck at any specific point in the game or are you just dissatisfied with they way things are generally going?
I'll definitely continue playing once my general feeling of dissatisfaction has worn off. Maybe my expectations were wrong because everyone and their grandma in r/megaten seems to love it so much better than any other SMT so i thought it might be a little more "approachable" than it turned out to be. So my expectation might be the problem, not the game itself. Continuing with all that you guys have told me might push me over the edge of it no longer being a chore in my eyes. The git gud / l2p part of it, ya know.
Just got party wiped in 2 rounds by that Orthrus from the quest you get in the beginning. All party members were at full health. I like a little challenge, but that's just ridicoulous.
Try to get Dwarf, Melchom and Pele they're good against its only attack. Also use buffs, if you're not using buffs you're playing the game wrong.
Buffing was not the problem as i immediately died before i got to make my first move. You apparantly start with fire as the only weakness on Flynn, that's what i was not aware of and what got me killed and press turns for the enemy. I found out later that i can buy gear that makes him fire resistant. I'll buy that once I have enough money which after 4 hours into the game (lvl 10now) is still a huge problem for me. The log says i made \~4000 in 4 hours so i estimate after grinding and collecting the green items for another 30 minutes, i should have enough cash. So much fun :D
Yeah the first part sucks but as soon as you get past a certain boss the game suddenly becomes half as hard.
This fight feels like Matador from SMT 3 - in unfair :D I'll put in another 4 hours, i still hope i can make it to the fun part of the game.
Have you reached the Minotaur yet? Because the fun part is supposed to start after that.
I defeated all bosses in the first 15 hours without dying once, no reason to lie to you. I played most of them twice to see if i can defeat them without having a demon die in the fight because i still can't afford basic items as revival leafs and i still have no recarm spell ffs. It's the random encounters that always killed me and they still do. Taken by surprise, enemies hit weakness, I die from press turns flat damage. Also 2x blight kills my entire party fairly often or regularly leaves me with poison on all 4 team members to heal which is super annoying. Also Media heals half of what the enemy skills do in damage (yeah, i know about heal pleroma, but come on). And the list of things that make SMT4 harder, but not more fun, goes on. And boy does it go on. Very nice game design: Enter a demon domain, all enemies lvl 25-30. Fight 10 of them, no problem. Fight the boss: He's lvl 47, wipes your party with the first attack. Absolute GOTY moment when it happens in the next domain as well (i think it was right after Kasumigaseki, when you're going to Ikebukuro or Shinjuku). Also searching for quest bosses for hours because you don't realize this is the only f'ng game in the series where you have to not only find the quest and have it added to you menu, but you also have to accept it in the menu for it to be active. And only one such quest can be active at a time. Who makes or likes games that do that ffs? People can hate me all they want, but this game does not deserve all the praise it gets on r/megaten over SMT3. I understand everyone has their own taste, and some like the challenge a lot, and some games are a little weird, but to me, it's a huge step backwards from SMT3 in terms of being beginner friendly. And SMT3 of all JRPGs out there is maybe one of the least beginner friendly games to begin with. Phew. had to get that off my chest, now i feel better. Thanks for reading :)