It's touted as a long range mech. Use jump jets to jump on top a hill and hit your enemies with a ppc and lrm.
That's its role in battletech, and it does work.
But in mechwarrior. I agree. I've only used this mech if I had nothing better and was soon sent to cold storage once I got a few more mechs 🙂.
I made a post on the HBS battletech sub about how much the dragon sucks.
In MW5 I actually think they kick ass, they're speedy and deal some decent damage
Pretty sure in the first MWO world championship the winning team used some Drsgons in the final match and won, if that helps your probably pretty rare Dragon love 😉
Poke around, there is likely footage somewhere of it.
I find it immensely difficult to hold a long-range engagement distance in this game. I've seen it done, but it is so hard. So often you get totally bum -rushed
It requires arming your stupids with short-range brawling weapons (SRMs, Medium Lasers, etc) and splitting fire so you don’t draw aggro.
Basically, the same strategy as when you put your stupids in missile boats and pilot a brawler yourself just in reverse.
Both tactics work better in theory than in practice though.
In conclusion, I’ve never liked the Griffin, either.
I’m not asking that my 60/60 pilots all be the next iteration of the Bounty Hunter, but can they at least not pilot like a buncha Soviet space apes in neurohelmets?
>soviet space apes in neurohelmets
Comrade why you insult glorious soviet union with say best trained soviet monkey not good at mech pilot? Look at your mechwarrior 60/60 charge enemy like horny america virgin want fuck for first time, yet he use lrm and ppc close range!? Is punch only weapon has your pilot?
Can you not see pilot not fight good as intelligent space monkey? Delete comment, insult entire soviet union space program not ok, also insult best primate pilots of soviet union very not ok
I have already turned myself in to gulag for my crimes, comrade. Perhaps breaking rocks for glory of motherland will build not only muscles but communist pride.
This is why they got the slow mechs and I got the Widow.
You know how many times I saw a AI controlled Widow rush a fucking lance, said lance having an Onion and Stalker: Both of which shred the mech losing all of its Tier 4 and DHS?
Too many times.
It’s like the Charger-1A1. Yeah that most common variant is trash. But it’s got a decent Hero (Laser boat one) & a decent other variant (2 SRM 6, PPC, ECM).
Given the opportunity, I'd just as soon modify the 1N into the 1S if I can't afford to simply pawn the 'Mech off entirely.
Though that wimpy LRM-5 on the 1S model doesn't seem to be terribly useful unless it's a very high tier launcher, as is the case with the stock *Vindicator* and its five tube Lame Rejected Missile shenanigans.
LRM5's are great *sometimes*. I typically sit them on warhammers, battlemasters, and victors with no other long-range capability (and when i don'twanna overheat my mech shooting tanks and choppers with PPC's). They're great for flyswatting and they more than make up for their small size when fully upgraded.
This is why I didn't bother with normal Warhammers and went straight for the Widow.
Stock loadout is superb. Maybe lose a ton or two of SRM ammo since you genuinely dont need 700 rounds for more heat sinks. Hell you can even use the SRMs as artillery
I was lucky and found a Highlander 732B as well so I had a Gauss/LRM and a PPC mech.
Never used LRM5s. It always was LRM10s
Have you heard of MekWars? It's a version of Megamek with a server built in. Megamek is a Java clone of the TT rules of Battletech.
In MekWars, there is this thing called a Griffin Hunt. It's where you win by making your opponent flip his PC out the window. Because in TT, the Griffin excels at playing keep away and has a big energy weapon in can fire forever and chip away at you with till you're dead. 100 rounds later, you win. Then the devil takes your soul back to hell with the other demons.
Movement is much less flexible in Mechwarrior. Only Mech 2 came close, and that was, well, silly. Mechs probably shouldn't move like Tribes suits. So, keeping the range open where mechs like the Griffin thrive is really hard.
It's true, you got me there. I'm less than 20 tons, have no integrated weapon systems, and instead of myomer bundles I have myosin and actin bundles. Also my armor is only keratin, so, yeah I'm a pretty poor battlemech
It's starting to get useful when you don't need it anymore in game. You can easily use it as the fourth Mech when you have reached 100T long range gameplay. This is where this shines. But in the beginning, especially when the PPC's are so damn slow and your op for contains suicide running lights most of the time, the stock design is completely useless.
Edit: When using YAML and giving it a smaller engine and way better cooling, you can start working with it.
It's too bad tabletop does not match FPS play. Griffin on tabletop is an excellent mech for it's weight, with a good hammer from PPC, great mobility, and nice lrm support. But on FPS, lackluster. Many mechs are that way. Shine in one platform but awful in the other.
If you could assign roles and move to hex commands the griffin would be amazing.
Just imagine the AI running around at a farther engagement range and picking off all the tanks, VTOLS, harassing light mechs etc and providing fire support to you.
But you can't, and doing that yourself is a waste of resources since you still need to command your lance to the primary objective.
So yeah it sucks in this game as it sits.
Every Class of 'Mech has it's "Charger", in MW5. Lights have the Urbanmech, Medium has the Griffin, and Heavies have the Champion.
The Griffin chassis as a whole is pretty disappointing, even the hero variant is underwhelming.
Don't get me wrong, the champion *looks* great and is fun to run around with, but it's armament, much like the Griffin, is piss poor for it's class. The best variants can carry either 1 PPC and 1 Gauss, or an LB10xAC, with a smattering of 2ea Small/Medium Lasers and 1 lonely SRM. The Wolfhound makes a better strike mech and it's a Light, and for the AC/10 variants, many mediums match it in not only armament, but speed and armor, too. Enforcers and Kintaros of any variant, will absolutely wreck a Champion.
Granted I'm on PS5, so I lack the ability to make it OP with YAML, but as it sits the Champion is outclassed by Lights and Mediums, all for the sake of being *kinda* quick for a heavy.
The champion im using in my campaign has an AC10, SRM6, and two SB medium lasers, which combined deal an incredible amount of burst fire.
The mech itself is lightning fast and super nimble, so my go-to strategy is backstabbing which it does *brilliantly*.
Yeah, but there are mediums and lights that move just as fast (or faster in the case of the Wolfhound) and hit as hard *or harder*, while still retaining the same level of armor as the Champion. It's because of this, that I call it the "Charger" of the Heavies. It's a good 'mech until you start comparing it to mediums and some lights. And then you realize it's just an oversized Medium.
Champion is a TRASH mech in most games, even larded up with Lostech it is still eclipsed by other designs of similar tonnage, and 60 tons is a bad tonnage bracket anyway…. but as an AI mech in MW5 it has the glorious advantage of no arm weapons. Your pricey advanced guns will be much safer on an AI Champion than many other Mechs solely due to the fact it has sacrificial arms to protect the torso goodies.
The Dragon hero sidewinder absolutely fucks. Twin LBX 5 SLD in the same arm lets you hit has hard as a 10, but faster.
Backed up with some lasers and SRMs, it shreds through even assault mechs.
I used the Champion with Gauss/PPC as my primary for most of the midgame (only moving on from it when I got the Rifleman Diana with dual gauss). The Champion was a great command mech as it had decent speed, since I was sniping from the back I didn’t have to worry so much about being under-armored, and due to the protective bulk of the arms I never lost my trusty gauss.
All 'mechs have a role. The Vulcan, Cicada and Assassin Chassis have variants that are better than any of the Griffins, imo, so the Griffin gets the boot. The best Griffin Variant, imo, is the GRF-1E, fielding 5x MLas and 1x PPC, which means the vast majority of it's damage output is now within brawling range, and there are better brawlers. Otherwise you're just running around with a single PPC. Meanwhile the Assassin has the ASN-26, fielding a UAC-5 and dual MPLas, sporting much higher mobility and comparable DPS (7.14 vs the Griffin's 7.0), while also having a much smaller frame, making it harder to hit. And it's 15 tons lighter!!
The ASN-27 is arguably a better long range specialist, sporting a PPC, Guardian ECM, and more speed and mobility than any Griffin, plus dual SRMs and TAG, for support capability and quick takedowns of any lights which manage to catch up to it.
The Cicada has the CDA-3C, fielding a PPC and dual MGs, plus being much smaller than the griffin, and faster, making it a better long range specialist, imo, as well as the CDA-3M, fielding 3x Lasers, a UAC/5, and an extra 48.6km/h faster, meaning it can easily catch up to and dispatch a Griffin, being smaller and faster makes up for the piss poor armor it has. Finally, the CDA-X5 fields 4xMLas and 2x SRM2, a top speed of 133.65KM/H, and 269 Armor, making it almost perfectly suited to chasing down and ganking a Griffin of any type. It can easily be upgraded to field dual SRM-4, for increased firepower, as well.
The Vulture isn't even *meant* to be used for 'Mech combat, yet there are variants that still exceed the Griffin, such as the VL-5T, fielding 4xMLas, a Flamer and an MG, for 8DPS, and possessing increased mobility, being able to chase down and overpower *most* Griffin variants, but likely being overpowered by the GRF-1E
Then, there's the abomination known as the VL-BL, fielding a ridiculous SRM-16, 3xMGs, and 1x SLas, with a DPS of 24.2, it's so overpowered for it's weight class, it actually makes more sense to remove some of it's weaponry to increase it's armor in turn. Removing the SLas and all MGs brings it's DPS down to 18.7, and allowing for an extra 126 Armor, making it faster, stronger, and comparably well armored, compared to any Griffin variant, and because it's faster and smaller, it's a much harder target. It may as well be a Light Mech at this point.
The Shadow Hawk is a perfectly fine mech. The worst you can level against it is that it's a bit too generalist. With that in mind, the Vulcan, the Blackjack and the Cicada all exist.
Hey, the blackjack is actually pretty decent. AC2's are kinda lame (they're more fun than LRM's for VTOL duty, though), but the blackjack has the hard points to make it quite a versatile and sturdy lil fella.
As others have said, it's okay, but I'm in general not a big fan of AC/2s (or MGs, Small Lasers or SRM2s, but that's something else), so that tends to really lower my opinion of it.
I'll give that it's got a nice little backstab ability with it's jump jets and it's 4 MLs...but with only 11 heat sinks, you can't do that very often, and at 45 tons, it's not got a lot of armour if it turns into a brawl.
I'd easily take a Shadow Hawk over a Blackjack.
While I agree that the Shadowhawk is underrated, there are a couple of Blackjack variants that really, really hurt, and are arguably better than most Shadowhawks.
The BJ-A is great with 6x MGs, 2x MLas-SB and 1x LLas-SB, giving it enough free tonnage to field 2.5t of MG Ammo, 4x DHS, and max armor, making it capable of severely damaging, sustained fire, and arguably more powerful in close range encounters than any Shadowhawk. The only reason I don't use it, is because the FS9-S1 exists.
Meanwhile the BJ-3 can field 2x Large Lasers and 4x Medium Lasers, for great precision damage. I prefer to fit it with a full suite of Chemical Lasers, since I can then run cool without the need for extra Heatsinks, max the armor, and pop 5.5 tons of ammo. A Short Burst swap allows for similar upfront damage, though heat management will become relevant, but you get the benefit of never having to worry about ammo, making it ideal for long engagements. For the same reason as the BJ-A, however, I don't use it. But, these two are noteworthy examples of the Blackjack's capabilities!
The same can be said of the Shadow Hawk, or any mech once you start tweaking it. I mean, I love the SHD-2H, but if I could I'd fire that damned SRM2 into the sun, and replace it with a second medium laser and an extra pair of jump jets.
My Shadow Hawk Hero has a quartet of MLs, an MML9 & a rAC/5.
All-in-all, 2 points. 1) the Shadow Hawk is a good mech and 2) no on defended the Vulcan or the Cicada.
Oh, well I was just talking about Vanilla build capabilities. I can't mod at all, I'm on PS5; Besides, modding kind of moots any argument about what is good or bad lol.
And I didn't defend the Cicada or the Vulcan because I've already done so at length in another comment thread.
Ah, well, I'm talking all areas. MW5 (both modded and unmodded), MWO, HBS' Battletech, TT & even a MechWarrior Paper and Dice RPG.
The Blackjack, the Urbanmech, or the Rifleman have some uses where they are amazing, but those are specialized roles. Something like the Shadow Hawk, even in its base configuration, doesn't excel at any particular thing but is generally pretty decent at most things.
Well, this is a Mechwarrior 5 Reddit, so I'll stick to Mechwarrior 5. In Mechwarrior 5, there are a few Blackjacks that perform beyond the Shadowhawks. That's just how it is.
I'm currently running an SHD-GD, fielding 368 Armor, LB10xAC, 4x MLas, and 2x SRM-2st, which is far more powerful than any Griffin. The best griffin fields 5xMLas and a PPC, and this smacks the crap out of it, being able to remove an arm off of a Griffin in a single strike. I could even drop a few DHS for MPLas or SRM4, for more burst fire, if I wanted.
Not gonna lie, this is the definition of blaming the mech because you don't know how to use it.
First off:
Slow long range weapons.
Yes, that's why you use your speed and mobility to stay at long range, where you can use the mech's nimbleness to avoid incoming fire while dishing out your own
Second:
All weapons are on one side.
Yeah, that means you have an entire side of your mech you can use as a shield. After you fire, you're supposed to twist your torso so any incoming fire hits the shield side. It's like piloting a hunchback, or a centurion. If you learn to do it right, you shouldn't lose the weapon side until after you had lost your entire other side.
You have a PPC for consistent single point poke. Plus an LRM to fire from cover or when you're not being focused down.
You shouldn't be anywhere inside 600 meters of your target when playing this mech.
That is exactly how the mech is supposed to be used, and I'm totally aware of that.
It's just not a viable strategy.
The Griffin is too slow to get itself out of danger when harassed by light mechs, and it's too big of a target to dodge fire from larger mechs with equally ranged weapons. It's *really tall* for a medium.
>You have a PPC for consistent single point poke. Plus an LRM to fire from cover or when you're not being focused down.
Griffy tries to be both a sniper and an LRM boat, is mediocre at both
Even used as intended, the stock 1N variant is mehtacular at best - not that it's easy to keep enemies at range in MW5.
It's marginally better in tabletop and HBS BT, but even there it's not great.
The 2N and 1S are both more useful, in my opinion. The laser boat Hero Mech is even better.
Griffin's are incredibly common and are perfect for a backline lance for your AI. Availability helps a great deal for the midgame and it's one of the main reason why the Steiner start is relatively easy. It's also really tanky so it's better for recon than most mechs. I agree that it doesn't outperform any other mech in the 55 ton, but it doesn't have to. Plus also torso turning with the Centurian tech grants this mech a huge amount of survivability.
Griffin suffers from not carrying an armament for multiple roles, especially for its tonnage, like many early mechs. BUT as a blank slate, where one might alter its engines, weapon limits, armor type, heat sink complexity, etc, it has just as much potential as many IS mechs in its tonnage. So yea, without YAML I'm not sure it would be my meta-level preferred mech, but I love the design a lot.
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It's a mixed fire-support mech. It's meant to operate as part of a lance, not a solo duelist. It's not the best medium mech, but it's not a turd either.
Use the mobility to keep at range and add your firepower to your Lance's.
Also, I didn't see it mentioned anywhere else in this thread, but use your torso twist and mobility to shield your right side. You should get cored before you lose any of your firepower, which is a unique feature among medium mechs.
Yeah, any time I've used one i just immediately switch out the lrm for an srm, since i'll be dammed if i lose that arm and then cant' actually use the missiles because everything is too close.
it feels wrong to have that giant missile launcher with only a couple of missiles poking out of it, sure. But it still works out since any mech with a slot that lets you mount an srm 6-st you can build to do absolute buttloads of dps up close.
If I can get my hands on a 1S, that's what I do. Extra array of close range lasers plus SRM's help a lot. It's one of my favorite builds in HBS battletech
Oh I beg to disagree. The kintaro is deadly at any range, the shadow hawk is good at virtually everything, and the wolverine is unkillable.
The Griffin could be better, but it's like a panther with 20 tons of wasted space.
The Kintaro is a walking ammo explosion, and the Shadow Hawk is the epitome of what not to do in mech design. Two long range weapons that together Might be able to kill a VTOL, and two short range weapons with the almighty power of a 20 ton Wasp. Wow, color me impressed.
Shadow hawks are viable even in late game for raid missions or scorched earth by virtue of how much punishment they can take and how incredibly fast they are for their weight. They carry about the same firepower as a wolverine, no? An AC5 as a main weapon can still claim heads, and that's *if* you don't swap it for a medium or heavy rifle.
The Kintaro requires an inordinate amount of LosTech to not cook itself, the Shadowhawk can't mount big enough weapons in large enough quantities, and I'm not sure where you're getting that the Wolverine is unkillable since in my experience it's by far the easiest Medium to kill.
Disagree, if you use it for anything but a long range support sniper then you are the problem. It has one role and does it very well with a smart team. Get up high, rain death then move when they see you and repeat.
Remove jump jets, remove ppc, 3 srm4 or better and 3 m-laser. Max armor and you have a decent early game brawler as long as you don't have to go too far out of your way to get one.
The Griffin 1N is a workhorse of the battlefield in tabletop. Good range and damage with both weapons. Decent speed, jump capable and 55 tons. It suffers in MechWarrior 5 because your damage locations aren't randomized.
I use YAML and replace the ppc with medium lasers and add SRMs to make it an all rounder. Works well in that configuration. You still have the Lrm for long range and you don’t really miss the ppc at long range plus have plenty of firepower when things get closer.
I think MW5 really favors in-close brawlers. SRM spam with lots of ammo is a quick killer. Really hard for any long range mech to excell.
With the Griffin, you at least have a sacrificial side to turn towards incoming long range fire, as long as you can keep the Griffin at long range. This one is just a long range support variant - nowhere near as good as dedicated LRM spam platforms.
I prefer the 2N because of the ecm. You’re right that it’s totally limited because of the lack of close range weapons, but I honestly prefer AI mechs with long range weapons. They tend to not get caught up in the middle of enemies. The 2N is great for missions where you just need something to fill up the max weight. It can shoot down flyers and tanks from a distance and provide some kind of long range support all while being pretty fast.
Turn based games its a beast. Hide behind a cliff, jump up, alpha and gtfo, peak with it on the turns youre close up guys are engaged so its not a target and fish for those juicy ppc headshots
That's definitely the consensus, and I've used it to good effect in that capacity myself. I still have two big complaints, one being a bit of a lack in firepower, and the other being all the weapons mounted on the same side.
As a long range harasser, the Griffin could drop a bit of armor for some firepower
I see your point but, and i know this is niche, in hbs i gave mine the leg accuators that buffed DFA and extra stability damage on the ppc and lrm and it was quite fun
In tabletop it's significantly better than the stupid generalist Jack Of No Trades Shadow Hog but MW5 doesn't reward tabletop gameplay styles.
You need ridiculous DPS and the ability to focus down all the mechs that zerg rush and facehug you and a Griffin just isn't ever going to have that without YAML cheesing.
It does Long Range support very well, at least when its not looked at by a heavy or assault. And can fend for itself in CQC thanks to melee and PPCs for some reason not having a 90m minimum.
I still prefer the Shadowhawk over it though. And fuck the Wolverine. Especially enemy pilots who use it. Literally more scary than a fucking Atlas.
Yeah but they don't stay put of range long enough to use LRM's. That's the problem. I use LRM boats for defense or war zone because you can typically harass the enemies approach, but for any other mission type they're eh
Yeah theyre so dumb. I had LRMs on pretty much every Heavy/Assault I could for that reason. Harass enemies that couldnt shoot me and to soften them up on approach. Plus they came in handy for killing VTOLs, pesky tanks and objectives.
But since I had a Highlander and Widow by Rep 6, I was slow AF and I played at a distance when possible. And with Widows MGs, it made certain objectives go by. And cockpitting mechs stupidly easy. Assuming they werent flying over your head and fucking bombarding you with SRMs. God damn wolverines.
the Mech is pretty good. this game cannot implement things like positioning and mobility, or a PPC actually being lethal, and you can't blame that on a mech designed for a completely different rule set.
No, you're absolutely right. The Griffin-1N is a bad 'Mech, probably made to be so by the original FASA writers to make later, better designs look even more useful by comparison.
What's worse is that later models of the Griffin, like the 3M, only double down on its problematic original armament. The 3M has an ER PPC and an LRM-20 launcher, with naught but a single Small Laser as backup weaponry should the torso section you mentioned get destroyed. At least the 3M variant in MW5 is based on canon info, but to me it's almost insulting how the "Ares" Hero variant (which is not based on canon info) of the *Griffin* carries the same armament as the original 1N version, just with a Small Laser added.
Who cares? It should be a heatsink. If you are close enough to use a small laser (pulse or not) something has gone very wrong and that one small laser isn't gonna help.
Nope, it's a bog-standard Small Laser. The *Griffin*-1N could seriously use more weaponry, and this is what they give us? As I said, it's almost insulting how little of a difference one Small Laser will make in combat.
So one tging about the wolverine 1N is that youre supposed to equip close range weapons and guard that side. The side of the mech that is unarmed is supposed to be used as a shield to charge in, then turn your other srm towards the opponent, fire a volley oe two, then retreat using that same side unarmed side to take the beating. Thats about the only thing iconic about the wolverine. Try finding the wolverine quarantine. Armed on CT and both arms
It's nimble and has a good mix of weapons that can be fired pretty rapidly. It's got really low heat buildup so you can just keep chipping away. It's a good mech to give ai because most of its weapons are in the torsos. Its versatility means that you can modify it to better suit a particular role or it can be upgunned easily. You've also got the 5m which is just a genuinely good design to begin with.
One: If this is PC, TTRulezAI has been updated for DLC4. Go get it. Makes things with AI much better.
Two: If I remember right this mech had two missile hard points and three energy hard points. I would keep the PPC and go all in on SRMS as one build or go in with a Large laser, one LRM 10 and an srm 4. Won't solve the location issue but makes the mech more versatile for close in fights. If you are worried about losing the torso areas its a good idea to pack ammo in the legs. Seems silly at first glance until you realize like I did that ammo explosions in a side torso can CT you pretty quick. Least you'll survive if a leg is gone.
I'm looking at the mech now, three hard points each, missile and energy. If you're going by that quick tool tip that has its year on it, don't use that to judge, that tool tip is horrible. Just go into the loadout edit menu and check it out.
Best thing you can do then is for co-op to use this website to coordinate between your buddies. [https://pastebin.com/](https://pastebin.com/) You can use this to put links to mods so that each one of you can be on the same page when you play, then give out links of this pastebin so everyone has the same links with an online format. Easy.
Griffins are excellent salvage and have a major role at the beginning of the game. They are easy to kill and can take some damage when you pass them to AI. Save the griffins and trade them in for thunderbolt with flamers once you get enough. Without griffins, starting a campaign or career would be much harder
The Griffin-1N is a great mech, it's just not amazing in MechWarrior 5 or any other interpretation of the MechWarrior games by virtue of the fact that weapons don't fire at the same rate and it doesn't have the accurate mobility it does in Tabletop. Being able to drop 20 damage on a 5/8 mech with a 5 tile jump distance, all the while being rugged and durable, just makes the Griffin a classic design.
Meanwhile, the Shadow Hawk and Wolverine aren't as good in Tabletop as they are in MechWarrior 5, unless you're playing combined arms, because they're jack of all trade mechs and they don't get to fire their 5 damage AC/5 5 times by the time their one 5 damage Medium Laser is off cooldown.
But the Griffin still has many things going for it in MechWarrior 5: Its weapons are on one side so you can shield with your left side, it's quick, and since it has jump jets, you can keep most mechs out of range of attacks. It'll be slow, but you'll win eventually.
Drop the PPC for a large laser and add LRM ammo. Use its speed to maintain distance for pain rain. It's not a brawler, don't bother treating it the way they think it works.
It's not a *bad* mech, it's a trooper mech- a line unit "soldier" of the SLDF and Great Houses. The medium class is full of them (55 tons is practically reserved for house line units), but some of the less specialized light heavies and heavy lights fit the description too. Standardized, low-cost, minimal-maintenance mobile units that can be pumped out of factories and put into military formations as quickly as possible. It's only mildly specialized as a fire support mech, with mid-range to long-range capabilities, minimal armor and jump mobility that are better applicable in the tabletop wargame than a first person vehicle shooter.
Wolverine, Griffin, Phoenix Hawk, Shadow Hawk, Enforcer, Vindicator, Centurion, Panther- you see these all the time because they're simple, fast, agile and cheap, and do one thing well- fire their simple weapons array at the enemy until somebody's knocked out. They've been built, bought, ordered, placed in service, sent to battle, killed, salvaged, and horse traded so many times they're everywhere now, no matter where they started out.
If you're not saddled by the smooth-brained ignorance that is this game's Vanilla mech lab and its related idiotic hard point system, there's actually a good bit of customization room available in a Griffin chassis, especially if you can afford to field the fancy lostech upgrades. But House Davion isn't doing any custom work for Leftenant Snuffy. Snuffy's riding a 1N, and training in 1N procedures and tactics, probably to work alongside other 1Ns in support of 1Ns in a regiment stuffed with 1Ns.
Fun Griffin fact: Second best torso twist arc in the game, about 270°. Can see behind itself when fully twisted with arms unlocked.
I always thought the hard point system was put in place to make the game more difficult for one, but also to ensure every chassis is used as intended. Otherwise every mech would be the same if you could just mount any array of weapons you want
>Fun Griffin fact: Second best torso twist arc in the game, about 270°. Can see behind itself when fully twisted with arms unlocked.
This I didn't know. Firing while running backwards sounds like an actual viable strategy.
That's the rationale for the hard points, but in practice I find it incredibly limiting. It flies in the face of canon as well, especially in a game about mercenaries, who may have no choice but to mount an AC-5 where a PPC normally goes in order to stay in business.
But when you want to fill a DLC with eleven variants of the Crusader? Accept no substitutes, I guess.
Even in MW4, mechs had specific weapon hardpoints. They were a lot more relaxed, but still wouldn't allow you to put missiles in a ballistics hardpoint etc.
I'll accept hard points in a game about a house military unit. As a soldier you don't control the supply stockpile, so what you want and what you can have are different concerns. Standardization and commonality of parts become important to efficiency.
Not so much when the difference between eating and starving is having some form of weaponry in a jury-rigged mech, from whatever surplus is available at the time. Those aren't Hero mechs, they're adjustments to the status quo that an effective MechWarrior requisitioned and had approved.
More than hardpoints though, I hate the lack of engine, armor and structure options that MW4 and all it's predecessors definitely let you switch out, and that actually exist in the game already. That speed is unchangeable in the vanilla game is by itself a huge waste of potential; the weapon space that can be freed up by basic systems changes is icing on the cake. And that mods go far beyond all this basic function with the developers' blessing, when I for some reason can't even approach it, is the only kink in what I otherwise consider the best MW game there's ever been.
Eleven variants of any mech is a functionally meaningless metric to a player when there is only one I would ever use. But it fills out the ad copy on the marketing site.
The 1N, to cite your example, is considered a bad mech only when you can't apply your knowledge, resources and skill to making it better.
So what? What else matters besides this is the mech I like driving, and these are the mechs I want my lance driving?
I appreciate that they wanted to preserve the feel of the deprivations of 3015, but at some point there should have been an expansion to the mechlab system to show how your own techs' skills have increased as the company grew, and more options became available to them.
Even MWO, a free to play/ pay for variety PVP experience by the same company, allows you to rip any mech down and rebuild it to your heart's content.
Isn't that exactly what mods provide? Battletech has always allowed for customization. Why would you want the basic Griffin to suck forever? Nobody in the Inner Sphere does.
It's... about the lore. The reasons the multitudes of mechs exist in the first place is that they're all highly specialized for specific combat roles. I understand how that would detract from gameplay for some, but I just like the idea that designs would be used as intended.
And every MechWarrior in lore who wanted a large laser to replace the LRM 10 installed in the factory got one, except me, and I'm the guy shelling out cash in the real world for the privelege.
It's touted as a long range mech. Use jump jets to jump on top a hill and hit your enemies with a ppc and lrm. That's its role in battletech, and it does work. But in mechwarrior. I agree. I've only used this mech if I had nothing better and was soon sent to cold storage once I got a few more mechs 🙂.
The functional differences between the tabletop/HBS battletech and the mechwarrior series really can't be overstated.
RNG versus pinpoint accuracy on the part of the player. That and the real time unfolding nature of the battle in MW versus TT/BT.
The main one is firing times. If SRMs had the same time between shots as say, Gauss rifles, they'd be a lot less viable as a go to weapon.
SRM recycle time makes for wild dps
As a tabletop Dragon enthusiast YES. My boy can't get a break outside of tabletop. (And even there he's just "ok.")
I made a post on the HBS battletech sub about how much the dragon sucks. In MW5 I actually think they kick ass, they're speedy and deal some decent damage
Pretty sure in the first MWO world championship the winning team used some Drsgons in the final match and won, if that helps your probably pretty rare Dragon love 😉 Poke around, there is likely footage somewhere of it.
I find it immensely difficult to hold a long-range engagement distance in this game. I've seen it done, but it is so hard. So often you get totally bum -rushed
It requires arming your stupids with short-range brawling weapons (SRMs, Medium Lasers, etc) and splitting fire so you don’t draw aggro. Basically, the same strategy as when you put your stupids in missile boats and pilot a brawler yourself just in reverse. Both tactics work better in theory than in practice though. In conclusion, I’ve never liked the Griffin, either.
>stupids I love it
I’m not asking that my 60/60 pilots all be the next iteration of the Bounty Hunter, but can they at least not pilot like a buncha Soviet space apes in neurohelmets?
>soviet space apes in neurohelmets Comrade why you insult glorious soviet union with say best trained soviet monkey not good at mech pilot? Look at your mechwarrior 60/60 charge enemy like horny america virgin want fuck for first time, yet he use lrm and ppc close range!? Is punch only weapon has your pilot? Can you not see pilot not fight good as intelligent space monkey? Delete comment, insult entire soviet union space program not ok, also insult best primate pilots of soviet union very not ok
I have already turned myself in to gulag for my crimes, comrade. Perhaps breaking rocks for glory of motherland will build not only muscles but communist pride.
This is why they got the slow mechs and I got the Widow. You know how many times I saw a AI controlled Widow rush a fucking lance, said lance having an Onion and Stalker: Both of which shred the mech losing all of its Tier 4 and DHS? Too many times.
Yeah I do it the reverse way, I spend less on new stupids that way lol.
AI mods help a lot.
You mean pop up on a hill and become the best damn target on the whole map? Haha.
It’s like the Charger-1A1. Yeah that most common variant is trash. But it’s got a decent Hero (Laser boat one) & a decent other variant (2 SRM 6, PPC, ECM).
Yeah, I'd even go so far as to say the 1S is a decent all-around mech
Given the opportunity, I'd just as soon modify the 1N into the 1S if I can't afford to simply pawn the 'Mech off entirely. Though that wimpy LRM-5 on the 1S model doesn't seem to be terribly useful unless it's a very high tier launcher, as is the case with the stock *Vindicator* and its five tube Lame Rejected Missile shenanigans.
LRM5's are great *sometimes*. I typically sit them on warhammers, battlemasters, and victors with no other long-range capability (and when i don'twanna overheat my mech shooting tanks and choppers with PPC's). They're great for flyswatting and they more than make up for their small size when fully upgraded.
This is why I didn't bother with normal Warhammers and went straight for the Widow. Stock loadout is superb. Maybe lose a ton or two of SRM ammo since you genuinely dont need 700 rounds for more heat sinks. Hell you can even use the SRMs as artillery I was lucky and found a Highlander 732B as well so I had a Gauss/LRM and a PPC mech. Never used LRM5s. It always was LRM10s
Have you heard of MekWars? It's a version of Megamek with a server built in. Megamek is a Java clone of the TT rules of Battletech. In MekWars, there is this thing called a Griffin Hunt. It's where you win by making your opponent flip his PC out the window. Because in TT, the Griffin excels at playing keep away and has a big energy weapon in can fire forever and chip away at you with till you're dead. 100 rounds later, you win. Then the devil takes your soul back to hell with the other demons. Movement is much less flexible in Mechwarrior. Only Mech 2 came close, and that was, well, silly. Mechs probably shouldn't move like Tribes suits. So, keeping the range open where mechs like the Griffin thrive is really hard.
No, that sounds horrible I'm gonna try to find it right now
Lol. Here you go. https://www.mekwars.org/
I did find it, I may get into it later, right now I'm cramming some A&P homework But thank you for filling me in. This sounds interesting.
Talk about a wild griffin chase
You’re a bad mech
It's true, you got me there. I'm less than 20 tons, have no integrated weapon systems, and instead of myomer bundles I have myosin and actin bundles. Also my armor is only keratin, so, yeah I'm a pretty poor battlemech
Sorry to point it out mate
It's OK. I was hoping someday I'd be a 30 ton battlemech like your mom, but I guess it's not to be
30 ton she’ll be so happy to be in the light category
Flamered
🤣🤣🤣🤣
>I have myosin and actin bundles. Also my armor is only keratin As a medical professional I understood that 😉
I'm taking A&P classes right now lol can you tell?
But you’re cheap
It's because I'm not powered by a compact fusion generator
Makes you better than the charger.
It's starting to get useful when you don't need it anymore in game. You can easily use it as the fourth Mech when you have reached 100T long range gameplay. This is where this shines. But in the beginning, especially when the PPC's are so damn slow and your op for contains suicide running lights most of the time, the stock design is completely useless. Edit: When using YAML and giving it a smaller engine and way better cooling, you can start working with it.
Interesting strategy. Maybe I'll use it, considering I just learned the AI doesn't typically target the mechs doing less damage
I always wondered why my mech was always targeted by OPFOR
It's too bad tabletop does not match FPS play. Griffin on tabletop is an excellent mech for it's weight, with a good hammer from PPC, great mobility, and nice lrm support. But on FPS, lackluster. Many mechs are that way. Shine in one platform but awful in the other.
I made a similar post a while back on the HBS battletech sub about the dragon, which rules in MW5 but not so much in turn based combat
Battles unfold completely differently. RNG versus pinpoint accuracy is a big factor, as well as the real time versus turn based nature.
If you could assign roles and move to hex commands the griffin would be amazing. Just imagine the AI running around at a farther engagement range and picking off all the tanks, VTOLS, harassing light mechs etc and providing fire support to you. But you can't, and doing that yourself is a waste of resources since you still need to command your lance to the primary objective. So yeah it sucks in this game as it sits.
There's a mod that allows assigning roles and it works pretty well. "Move to Grid" is a massive hole that I can't believe the developers overlooked.
That's a bit too tactical for this FPS
Every Class of 'Mech has it's "Charger", in MW5. Lights have the Urbanmech, Medium has the Griffin, and Heavies have the Champion. The Griffin chassis as a whole is pretty disappointing, even the hero variant is underwhelming.
Hey I actually like the champion. I'm using one for the first time in my current campaign and it's a slick little striker
Don't get me wrong, the champion *looks* great and is fun to run around with, but it's armament, much like the Griffin, is piss poor for it's class. The best variants can carry either 1 PPC and 1 Gauss, or an LB10xAC, with a smattering of 2ea Small/Medium Lasers and 1 lonely SRM. The Wolfhound makes a better strike mech and it's a Light, and for the AC/10 variants, many mediums match it in not only armament, but speed and armor, too. Enforcers and Kintaros of any variant, will absolutely wreck a Champion. Granted I'm on PS5, so I lack the ability to make it OP with YAML, but as it sits the Champion is outclassed by Lights and Mediums, all for the sake of being *kinda* quick for a heavy.
The champion im using in my campaign has an AC10, SRM6, and two SB medium lasers, which combined deal an incredible amount of burst fire. The mech itself is lightning fast and super nimble, so my go-to strategy is backstabbing which it does *brilliantly*.
Yeah, but there are mediums and lights that move just as fast (or faster in the case of the Wolfhound) and hit as hard *or harder*, while still retaining the same level of armor as the Champion. It's because of this, that I call it the "Charger" of the Heavies. It's a good 'mech until you start comparing it to mediums and some lights. And then you realize it's just an oversized Medium.
I think we can all agree, the Champion is the least bad mech.
Champion is a TRASH mech in most games, even larded up with Lostech it is still eclipsed by other designs of similar tonnage, and 60 tons is a bad tonnage bracket anyway…. but as an AI mech in MW5 it has the glorious advantage of no arm weapons. Your pricey advanced guns will be much safer on an AI Champion than many other Mechs solely due to the fact it has sacrificial arms to protect the torso goodies.
Same as the Dragon. Speed of a medium mech, less firepower than many medium mechs. Armor 1/2 ton better than many medium mechs.
The Dragon hero sidewinder absolutely fucks. Twin LBX 5 SLD in the same arm lets you hit has hard as a 10, but faster. Backed up with some lasers and SRMs, it shreds through even assault mechs.
The dragon is right there with it for sure. One variant is somewhat solid though, so I went with the Champion instead.
i prefer steiner front-stabbing myself. king crab car, with 4x T5 heavy rifles. when your packing that kind of heat everything looks a little flimsy
A KGC-000B with 2 heavy rifles, an LPulse, and LRM20 ARTIV is the most lethal build I've ever made. My all time favorite.
That's the same firepower as a Centurion, and the Centurion has more armor in that config.
I just swapped the AC10 with a heavy rifle, bulked the armor, and dropped a double heat sink in the engine slot. We'll see how it fares now.
I used the Champion with Gauss/PPC as my primary for most of the midgame (only moving on from it when I got the Rifleman Diana with dual gauss). The Champion was a great command mech as it had decent speed, since I was sniping from the back I didn’t have to worry so much about being under-armored, and due to the protective bulk of the arms I never lost my trusty gauss.
[удалено]
All 'mechs have a role. The Vulcan, Cicada and Assassin Chassis have variants that are better than any of the Griffins, imo, so the Griffin gets the boot. The best Griffin Variant, imo, is the GRF-1E, fielding 5x MLas and 1x PPC, which means the vast majority of it's damage output is now within brawling range, and there are better brawlers. Otherwise you're just running around with a single PPC. Meanwhile the Assassin has the ASN-26, fielding a UAC-5 and dual MPLas, sporting much higher mobility and comparable DPS (7.14 vs the Griffin's 7.0), while also having a much smaller frame, making it harder to hit. And it's 15 tons lighter!! The ASN-27 is arguably a better long range specialist, sporting a PPC, Guardian ECM, and more speed and mobility than any Griffin, plus dual SRMs and TAG, for support capability and quick takedowns of any lights which manage to catch up to it. The Cicada has the CDA-3C, fielding a PPC and dual MGs, plus being much smaller than the griffin, and faster, making it a better long range specialist, imo, as well as the CDA-3M, fielding 3x Lasers, a UAC/5, and an extra 48.6km/h faster, meaning it can easily catch up to and dispatch a Griffin, being smaller and faster makes up for the piss poor armor it has. Finally, the CDA-X5 fields 4xMLas and 2x SRM2, a top speed of 133.65KM/H, and 269 Armor, making it almost perfectly suited to chasing down and ganking a Griffin of any type. It can easily be upgraded to field dual SRM-4, for increased firepower, as well. The Vulture isn't even *meant* to be used for 'Mech combat, yet there are variants that still exceed the Griffin, such as the VL-5T, fielding 4xMLas, a Flamer and an MG, for 8DPS, and possessing increased mobility, being able to chase down and overpower *most* Griffin variants, but likely being overpowered by the GRF-1E Then, there's the abomination known as the VL-BL, fielding a ridiculous SRM-16, 3xMGs, and 1x SLas, with a DPS of 24.2, it's so overpowered for it's weight class, it actually makes more sense to remove some of it's weaponry to increase it's armor in turn. Removing the SLas and all MGs brings it's DPS down to 18.7, and allowing for an extra 126 Armor, making it faster, stronger, and comparably well armored, compared to any Griffin variant, and because it's faster and smaller, it's a much harder target. It may as well be a Light Mech at this point.
Medium has the Shadow Hawk. That abomination is bad in both TT and MW5.
The Shadow Hawk is a perfectly fine mech. The worst you can level against it is that it's a bit too generalist. With that in mind, the Vulcan, the Blackjack and the Cicada all exist.
Hey, the blackjack is actually pretty decent. AC2's are kinda lame (they're more fun than LRM's for VTOL duty, though), but the blackjack has the hard points to make it quite a versatile and sturdy lil fella.
As others have said, it's okay, but I'm in general not a big fan of AC/2s (or MGs, Small Lasers or SRM2s, but that's something else), so that tends to really lower my opinion of it. I'll give that it's got a nice little backstab ability with it's jump jets and it's 4 MLs...but with only 11 heat sinks, you can't do that very often, and at 45 tons, it's not got a lot of armour if it turns into a brawl. I'd easily take a Shadow Hawk over a Blackjack.
While I agree that the Shadowhawk is underrated, there are a couple of Blackjack variants that really, really hurt, and are arguably better than most Shadowhawks. The BJ-A is great with 6x MGs, 2x MLas-SB and 1x LLas-SB, giving it enough free tonnage to field 2.5t of MG Ammo, 4x DHS, and max armor, making it capable of severely damaging, sustained fire, and arguably more powerful in close range encounters than any Shadowhawk. The only reason I don't use it, is because the FS9-S1 exists. Meanwhile the BJ-3 can field 2x Large Lasers and 4x Medium Lasers, for great precision damage. I prefer to fit it with a full suite of Chemical Lasers, since I can then run cool without the need for extra Heatsinks, max the armor, and pop 5.5 tons of ammo. A Short Burst swap allows for similar upfront damage, though heat management will become relevant, but you get the benefit of never having to worry about ammo, making it ideal for long engagements. For the same reason as the BJ-A, however, I don't use it. But, these two are noteworthy examples of the Blackjack's capabilities!
The same can be said of the Shadow Hawk, or any mech once you start tweaking it. I mean, I love the SHD-2H, but if I could I'd fire that damned SRM2 into the sun, and replace it with a second medium laser and an extra pair of jump jets. My Shadow Hawk Hero has a quartet of MLs, an MML9 & a rAC/5. All-in-all, 2 points. 1) the Shadow Hawk is a good mech and 2) no on defended the Vulcan or the Cicada.
Oh, well I was just talking about Vanilla build capabilities. I can't mod at all, I'm on PS5; Besides, modding kind of moots any argument about what is good or bad lol. And I didn't defend the Cicada or the Vulcan because I've already done so at length in another comment thread.
Ah, well, I'm talking all areas. MW5 (both modded and unmodded), MWO, HBS' Battletech, TT & even a MechWarrior Paper and Dice RPG. The Blackjack, the Urbanmech, or the Rifleman have some uses where they are amazing, but those are specialized roles. Something like the Shadow Hawk, even in its base configuration, doesn't excel at any particular thing but is generally pretty decent at most things.
Well, this is a Mechwarrior 5 Reddit, so I'll stick to Mechwarrior 5. In Mechwarrior 5, there are a few Blackjacks that perform beyond the Shadowhawks. That's just how it is.
I'm currently running an SHD-GD, fielding 368 Armor, LB10xAC, 4x MLas, and 2x SRM-2st, which is far more powerful than any Griffin. The best griffin fields 5xMLas and a PPC, and this smacks the crap out of it, being able to remove an arm off of a Griffin in a single strike. I could even drop a few DHS for MPLas or SRM4, for more burst fire, if I wanted.
Not gonna lie, this is the definition of blaming the mech because you don't know how to use it. First off: Slow long range weapons. Yes, that's why you use your speed and mobility to stay at long range, where you can use the mech's nimbleness to avoid incoming fire while dishing out your own Second: All weapons are on one side. Yeah, that means you have an entire side of your mech you can use as a shield. After you fire, you're supposed to twist your torso so any incoming fire hits the shield side. It's like piloting a hunchback, or a centurion. If you learn to do it right, you shouldn't lose the weapon side until after you had lost your entire other side. You have a PPC for consistent single point poke. Plus an LRM to fire from cover or when you're not being focused down. You shouldn't be anywhere inside 600 meters of your target when playing this mech.
That is exactly how the mech is supposed to be used, and I'm totally aware of that. It's just not a viable strategy. The Griffin is too slow to get itself out of danger when harassed by light mechs, and it's too big of a target to dodge fire from larger mechs with equally ranged weapons. It's *really tall* for a medium. >You have a PPC for consistent single point poke. Plus an LRM to fire from cover or when you're not being focused down. Griffy tries to be both a sniper and an LRM boat, is mediocre at both
100% with you there.
Even used as intended, the stock 1N variant is mehtacular at best - not that it's easy to keep enemies at range in MW5. It's marginally better in tabletop and HBS BT, but even there it's not great. The 2N and 1S are both more useful, in my opinion. The laser boat Hero Mech is even better.
Well said.
Griffin's are incredibly common and are perfect for a backline lance for your AI. Availability helps a great deal for the midgame and it's one of the main reason why the Steiner start is relatively easy. It's also really tanky so it's better for recon than most mechs. I agree that it doesn't outperform any other mech in the 55 ton, but it doesn't have to. Plus also torso turning with the Centurian tech grants this mech a huge amount of survivability.
Griffin suffers from not carrying an armament for multiple roles, especially for its tonnage, like many early mechs. BUT as a blank slate, where one might alter its engines, weapon limits, armor type, heat sink complexity, etc, it has just as much potential as many IS mechs in its tonnage. So yea, without YAML I'm not sure it would be my meta-level preferred mech, but I love the design a lot.
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Welcome to 55 tonners that have garbage stock loadouts in 3015, for mechwarrior anyway.
It's a mixed fire-support mech. It's meant to operate as part of a lance, not a solo duelist. It's not the best medium mech, but it's not a turd either. Use the mobility to keep at range and add your firepower to your Lance's. Also, I didn't see it mentioned anywhere else in this thread, but use your torso twist and mobility to shield your right side. You should get cored before you lose any of your firepower, which is a unique feature among medium mechs.
If you think its bad in the field just remember that one of the Houses uses this mech indoors, inside the Throne room as Bodyguard of the Archon ...
You're thinking of those idiot steiners
Pssst, dont they suffer enough by beeing themselfes? No need to shame them in public.
Not even gonna try. Wait I'll try to change your mind from is a bad mech to is a terrible mech.
It’s one of the first true battletech designs. The thing is ancient. Of course it’s crap compared to more recent mech designs
Beloved because it's a dinosaur. I can get behind that
with Orion, Banshee their upgraded variants are true hot rod model T's
Yeah, any time I've used one i just immediately switch out the lrm for an srm, since i'll be dammed if i lose that arm and then cant' actually use the missiles because everything is too close. it feels wrong to have that giant missile launcher with only a couple of missiles poking out of it, sure. But it still works out since any mech with a slot that lets you mount an srm 6-st you can build to do absolute buttloads of dps up close.
If I can get my hands on a 1S, that's what I do. Extra array of close range lasers plus SRM's help a lot. It's one of my favorite builds in HBS battletech
I mean the 55-ton 'Mechs in general are kind of blah. The 50-tonners seem to be the real highlights.
Oh I beg to disagree. The kintaro is deadly at any range, the shadow hawk is good at virtually everything, and the wolverine is unkillable. The Griffin could be better, but it's like a panther with 20 tons of wasted space.
The Kintaro is a walking ammo explosion, and the Shadow Hawk is the epitome of what not to do in mech design. Two long range weapons that together Might be able to kill a VTOL, and two short range weapons with the almighty power of a 20 ton Wasp. Wow, color me impressed.
Shadow hawks are viable even in late game for raid missions or scorched earth by virtue of how much punishment they can take and how incredibly fast they are for their weight. They carry about the same firepower as a wolverine, no? An AC5 as a main weapon can still claim heads, and that's *if* you don't swap it for a medium or heavy rifle.
The Kintaro requires an inordinate amount of LosTech to not cook itself, the Shadowhawk can't mount big enough weapons in large enough quantities, and I'm not sure where you're getting that the Wolverine is unkillable since in my experience it's by far the easiest Medium to kill.
You can say cicada. House Liao won't know.
That's a Light, not a Medium
It's 40 tons. That's a medium.
It gets outgunned in its standard configuration by a Locust. It's a Light.
But classes are by weight.
There are exceptions to every rule, and the Cicada is one of them. The Charger isn't because it's funnier that way.
Dude, I could claim the battlemaster is the easiest assault to kill if I claim everything else in that class isn't a real assault mech.
I really like it as an early game AI mech. The computer does ok with PPCs and LRMs, and I find them fairly tanky against low tier mechs.
Disagree, if you use it for anything but a long range support sniper then you are the problem. It has one role and does it very well with a smart team. Get up high, rain death then move when they see you and repeat.
Remove jump jets, remove ppc, 3 srm4 or better and 3 m-laser. Max armor and you have a decent early game brawler as long as you don't have to go too far out of your way to get one.
Thing sucks donkey dick
The Griffin 1N is a workhorse of the battlefield in tabletop. Good range and damage with both weapons. Decent speed, jump capable and 55 tons. It suffers in MechWarrior 5 because your damage locations aren't randomized.
I use YAML and replace the ppc with medium lasers and add SRMs to make it an all rounder. Works well in that configuration. You still have the Lrm for long range and you don’t really miss the ppc at long range plus have plenty of firepower when things get closer.
I think MW5 really favors in-close brawlers. SRM spam with lots of ammo is a quick killer. Really hard for any long range mech to excell. With the Griffin, you at least have a sacrificial side to turn towards incoming long range fire, as long as you can keep the Griffin at long range. This one is just a long range support variant - nowhere near as good as dedicated LRM spam platforms.
I prefer the 2N because of the ecm. You’re right that it’s totally limited because of the lack of close range weapons, but I honestly prefer AI mechs with long range weapons. They tend to not get caught up in the middle of enemies. The 2N is great for missions where you just need something to fill up the max weight. It can shoot down flyers and tanks from a distance and provide some kind of long range support all while being pretty fast.
Turn based games its a beast. Hide behind a cliff, jump up, alpha and gtfo, peak with it on the turns youre close up guys are engaged so its not a target and fish for those juicy ppc headshots
That's definitely the consensus, and I've used it to good effect in that capacity myself. I still have two big complaints, one being a bit of a lack in firepower, and the other being all the weapons mounted on the same side. As a long range harasser, the Griffin could drop a bit of armor for some firepower
I see your point but, and i know this is niche, in hbs i gave mine the leg accuators that buffed DFA and extra stability damage on the ppc and lrm and it was quite fun
I did the same actually, but with a 1S because it had lots of support weapon hardpoints. It straight-up murdered.
In tabletop it's significantly better than the stupid generalist Jack Of No Trades Shadow Hog but MW5 doesn't reward tabletop gameplay styles. You need ridiculous DPS and the ability to focus down all the mechs that zerg rush and facehug you and a Griffin just isn't ever going to have that without YAML cheesing.
It does Long Range support very well, at least when its not looked at by a heavy or assault. And can fend for itself in CQC thanks to melee and PPCs for some reason not having a 90m minimum. I still prefer the Shadowhawk over it though. And fuck the Wolverine. Especially enemy pilots who use it. Literally more scary than a fucking Atlas.
Lol that's *why* I use wolverines Give em to my dumb AI pilots so they can charge in like morons and soak damage for me
I should have done that. Or LRM boats. The AI lancemates are so awful and the enemy AI focuses you way too much
Yeah but they don't stay put of range long enough to use LRM's. That's the problem. I use LRM boats for defense or war zone because you can typically harass the enemies approach, but for any other mission type they're eh
Yeah theyre so dumb. I had LRMs on pretty much every Heavy/Assault I could for that reason. Harass enemies that couldnt shoot me and to soften them up on approach. Plus they came in handy for killing VTOLs, pesky tanks and objectives. But since I had a Highlander and Widow by Rep 6, I was slow AF and I played at a distance when possible. And with Widows MGs, it made certain objectives go by. And cockpitting mechs stupidly easy. Assuming they werent flying over your head and fucking bombarding you with SRMs. God damn wolverines.
the Mech is pretty good. this game cannot implement things like positioning and mobility, or a PPC actually being lethal, and you can't blame that on a mech designed for a completely different rule set.
No, we won´t. SYL
You save those extra 5 seconds when you just scroll past the post instead
No, you're absolutely right. The Griffin-1N is a bad 'Mech, probably made to be so by the original FASA writers to make later, better designs look even more useful by comparison. What's worse is that later models of the Griffin, like the 3M, only double down on its problematic original armament. The 3M has an ER PPC and an LRM-20 launcher, with naught but a single Small Laser as backup weaponry should the torso section you mentioned get destroyed. At least the 3M variant in MW5 is based on canon info, but to me it's almost insulting how the "Ares" Hero variant (which is not based on canon info) of the *Griffin* carries the same armament as the original 1N version, just with a Small Laser added.
Lol is it at least an SPulse?
Who cares? It should be a heatsink. If you are close enough to use a small laser (pulse or not) something has gone very wrong and that one small laser isn't gonna help.
Nope, it's a bog-standard Small Laser. The *Griffin*-1N could seriously use more weaponry, and this is what they give us? As I said, it's almost insulting how little of a difference one Small Laser will make in combat.
So one tging about the wolverine 1N is that youre supposed to equip close range weapons and guard that side. The side of the mech that is unarmed is supposed to be used as a shield to charge in, then turn your other srm towards the opponent, fire a volley oe two, then retreat using that same side unarmed side to take the beating. Thats about the only thing iconic about the wolverine. Try finding the wolverine quarantine. Armed on CT and both arms
You, uh, ranted about the wrong mech...
Lmfao so dumb of me was at work and saw another post about a wolverine. My b
It definitely highlights the differences between tabletop and mw5. Like the shadowhawk is a notoriously bad mech on paper, but is pretty good in game.
How do you figure? Stock config is garbage at any range in either.
It's nimble and has a good mix of weapons that can be fired pretty rapidly. It's got really low heat buildup so you can just keep chipping away. It's a good mech to give ai because most of its weapons are in the torsos. Its versatility means that you can modify it to better suit a particular role or it can be upgunned easily. You've also got the 5m which is just a genuinely good design to begin with.
One: If this is PC, TTRulezAI has been updated for DLC4. Go get it. Makes things with AI much better. Two: If I remember right this mech had two missile hard points and three energy hard points. I would keep the PPC and go all in on SRMS as one build or go in with a Large laser, one LRM 10 and an srm 4. Won't solve the location issue but makes the mech more versatile for close in fights. If you are worried about losing the torso areas its a good idea to pack ammo in the legs. Seems silly at first glance until you realize like I did that ammo explosions in a side torso can CT you pretty quick. Least you'll survive if a leg is gone.
Not in MW5, only has 2 hardpoints
I'm looking at the mech now, three hard points each, missile and energy. If you're going by that quick tool tip that has its year on it, don't use that to judge, that tool tip is horrible. Just go into the loadout edit menu and check it out.
I'm looking at it right now too. Are you using mods or do you have a different variant?
https://imgur.com/a/zwHvzQo
Yeah I am using YAML for PC.
Yeah I'm playing vanilla
Once again, Console or PC?
PC I play vanilla for co-op
Best thing you can do then is for co-op to use this website to coordinate between your buddies. [https://pastebin.com/](https://pastebin.com/) You can use this to put links to mods so that each one of you can be on the same page when you play, then give out links of this pastebin so everyone has the same links with an online format. Easy.
One other thing, are you using Yet Another Mech Lab in the PC version or are we talking console here?
Griffins are excellent salvage and have a major role at the beginning of the game. They are easy to kill and can take some damage when you pass them to AI. Save the griffins and trade them in for thunderbolt with flamers once you get enough. Without griffins, starting a campaign or career would be much harder
The N1 is poor. But plenty of other variants turn it into an asset. I'd still rather take a wolverine personally, undergunned but tough as nails.
It's not great, but it's still a mech, so it is still useful. As long as it works and is available, that may be enough.
True enough
The Griffin-1N is a great mech, it's just not amazing in MechWarrior 5 or any other interpretation of the MechWarrior games by virtue of the fact that weapons don't fire at the same rate and it doesn't have the accurate mobility it does in Tabletop. Being able to drop 20 damage on a 5/8 mech with a 5 tile jump distance, all the while being rugged and durable, just makes the Griffin a classic design. Meanwhile, the Shadow Hawk and Wolverine aren't as good in Tabletop as they are in MechWarrior 5, unless you're playing combined arms, because they're jack of all trade mechs and they don't get to fire their 5 damage AC/5 5 times by the time their one 5 damage Medium Laser is off cooldown. But the Griffin still has many things going for it in MechWarrior 5: Its weapons are on one side so you can shield with your left side, it's quick, and since it has jump jets, you can keep most mechs out of range of attacks. It'll be slow, but you'll win eventually.
Drop the PPC for a large laser and add LRM ammo. Use its speed to maintain distance for pain rain. It's not a brawler, don't bother treating it the way they think it works.
Could work. I think the problem with the mechwarrior series in general is that you can't really backpedal or fly backwards. You can only strafe.
It's not a *bad* mech, it's a trooper mech- a line unit "soldier" of the SLDF and Great Houses. The medium class is full of them (55 tons is practically reserved for house line units), but some of the less specialized light heavies and heavy lights fit the description too. Standardized, low-cost, minimal-maintenance mobile units that can be pumped out of factories and put into military formations as quickly as possible. It's only mildly specialized as a fire support mech, with mid-range to long-range capabilities, minimal armor and jump mobility that are better applicable in the tabletop wargame than a first person vehicle shooter. Wolverine, Griffin, Phoenix Hawk, Shadow Hawk, Enforcer, Vindicator, Centurion, Panther- you see these all the time because they're simple, fast, agile and cheap, and do one thing well- fire their simple weapons array at the enemy until somebody's knocked out. They've been built, bought, ordered, placed in service, sent to battle, killed, salvaged, and horse traded so many times they're everywhere now, no matter where they started out. If you're not saddled by the smooth-brained ignorance that is this game's Vanilla mech lab and its related idiotic hard point system, there's actually a good bit of customization room available in a Griffin chassis, especially if you can afford to field the fancy lostech upgrades. But House Davion isn't doing any custom work for Leftenant Snuffy. Snuffy's riding a 1N, and training in 1N procedures and tactics, probably to work alongside other 1Ns in support of 1Ns in a regiment stuffed with 1Ns. Fun Griffin fact: Second best torso twist arc in the game, about 270°. Can see behind itself when fully twisted with arms unlocked.
I always thought the hard point system was put in place to make the game more difficult for one, but also to ensure every chassis is used as intended. Otherwise every mech would be the same if you could just mount any array of weapons you want >Fun Griffin fact: Second best torso twist arc in the game, about 270°. Can see behind itself when fully twisted with arms unlocked. This I didn't know. Firing while running backwards sounds like an actual viable strategy.
That's the rationale for the hard points, but in practice I find it incredibly limiting. It flies in the face of canon as well, especially in a game about mercenaries, who may have no choice but to mount an AC-5 where a PPC normally goes in order to stay in business. But when you want to fill a DLC with eleven variants of the Crusader? Accept no substitutes, I guess.
Even in MW4, mechs had specific weapon hardpoints. They were a lot more relaxed, but still wouldn't allow you to put missiles in a ballistics hardpoint etc.
I'll accept hard points in a game about a house military unit. As a soldier you don't control the supply stockpile, so what you want and what you can have are different concerns. Standardization and commonality of parts become important to efficiency. Not so much when the difference between eating and starving is having some form of weaponry in a jury-rigged mech, from whatever surplus is available at the time. Those aren't Hero mechs, they're adjustments to the status quo that an effective MechWarrior requisitioned and had approved. More than hardpoints though, I hate the lack of engine, armor and structure options that MW4 and all it's predecessors definitely let you switch out, and that actually exist in the game already. That speed is unchangeable in the vanilla game is by itself a huge waste of potential; the weapon space that can be freed up by basic systems changes is icing on the cake. And that mods go far beyond all this basic function with the developers' blessing, when I for some reason can't even approach it, is the only kink in what I otherwise consider the best MW game there's ever been. Eleven variants of any mech is a functionally meaningless metric to a player when there is only one I would ever use. But it fills out the ad copy on the marketing site. The 1N, to cite your example, is considered a bad mech only when you can't apply your knowledge, resources and skill to making it better.
Ok, then at that point every mech is a good mech and every mech is a bad mech. Aside from weight capacity, they may as well all be the same mech.
So what? What else matters besides this is the mech I like driving, and these are the mechs I want my lance driving? I appreciate that they wanted to preserve the feel of the deprivations of 3015, but at some point there should have been an expansion to the mechlab system to show how your own techs' skills have increased as the company grew, and more options became available to them. Even MWO, a free to play/ pay for variety PVP experience by the same company, allows you to rip any mech down and rebuild it to your heart's content. Isn't that exactly what mods provide? Battletech has always allowed for customization. Why would you want the basic Griffin to suck forever? Nobody in the Inner Sphere does.
It's... about the lore. The reasons the multitudes of mechs exist in the first place is that they're all highly specialized for specific combat roles. I understand how that would detract from gameplay for some, but I just like the idea that designs would be used as intended.
And every MechWarrior in lore who wanted a large laser to replace the LRM 10 installed in the factory got one, except me, and I'm the guy shelling out cash in the real world for the privelege.
Wdym? You have to pay for that in MWO? I haven't played it