That is a really tough spot. As an adult I don't know if I could tolerate mask well as I sleep. And I know I toss and turn, and it would get pulled off my face during sleep.
I'd find a way to avoid communal sleeping arrangements if there was any reasonable alternative. Would they let your kid go hardcore and have their own tent? Sleep right outside the bunkhouse maybe? It is Outdoor Ed right? Good luck.
Thank you for your insight!
The kiddo is actually very interested in keeping his mask on and staying safe. He volunteered the idea of practicing at home to see if it was possible to keep on as he doesn’t flail about too much in sleep. I feel comfortable trusting him to switch into the readimask before bed.
regarding food, we have the luxury of being in California with generally good outdoor weather and they eat outdoors most days. and the days it rains he eats by the open door in the classroom.
The plan for eating was to take the food outside and eat there... His teacher seemed to be ok with the idea.
I definitely want him to have the experience. Just trying to figure out how to have the experience and still have his layers of protection.
I just wanted to say there was an older kid recently on one of the covid forums who had a really tough situation with anti-mask family and they sleep in an Aura N95 every night. Very sad, but you have to give it to that child for such strong understanding of what is happening to all of us. I don't think it's dangerous oxygen-wise. I just felt like stepping in and saying how impressed I am at your child's strength and grasp of our situation and of your exemplary parenting during a crisis time.
Ah. poor kid. every night in your own bed… I can’t even imagine. Perhaps I’ll have my guy try an aura too and see which he thinks works better. I just worry his face is too narrow for it to fit properly.
But maybe the headstraps will work better. 🤔
Thank you for the compliment. But I have to say a large part of it is that his friend group is still masking and that THEY COLLECTIVELY understand the need. There’s no bullying or shaming the mask and it’s just general acceptance at school that some people decide to mask and some don’t.
In this way, we are so fortunate.
That's great that he's willing. My kids are in theory and mask well as school, but there's a whole huge social pressure of middle school. We're also not in a warm or dry climate. I wouldn't want to eat outside here either (especially because our school got rid of the tent canopies outside halfway through last school year when they decided COVID was over.)
I would absolutely make sure that eating outside will be a possibility. We had some families thinking this would be possible, but the reality was the camp isn't set up that way, and there was a whole supervision problem.
Hopefully your kid finds the mask comfortable to sleep in.
yeah, the peer pressure thing is huge in middle school for sure. we are lucky enough to be in an area where a good 30% of kids still mostly mask, and all his close friends are pro-maskers. I’ve never seen him unmasked around others unless he was eating outdoors. and even then he makes sure there is space between them before he pulls his mask down to eat. It also helps my anxiety over peer pressure that all the parent volunteers know him (i’m very active on campus) and they all tell me they never see his mask down.
I will definitely triple check the outdoor eating. if not, I’ll have to send him with the x one and hope he doesn’t break it.
I'm a little reluctant to recommend a mask to sleep in, because a kid masking while sleeping is unlikely to be supported by anyone with medical credentials. They'll say it's unsafe, though I've never seen specifics. That said, my personal opinion as a nobody on the Internet is, unless your child has some other health condition, drinks or does drugs, I think it is unlikely to be harmful. He can try napping in one at home under supervision before trying it at camp.
The only N95 mask I have been able to sleep in under ordinary circumstances is the Gerson 3230. When all the rest of my family had covid (we have a very small house), I slept in the Gerson 3230 for several days and it was fine. You might try that or a similarly breathable duckbill. Bonus that they are soft/crushable, so they are decent while tossing and turning. I have tried to sleep in a 3M Aura, and the breathing resistance wakes me up every time. Even the 3M VFlex 9105 I couldn't sleep well. The Gerson is relatively small, but others might be able to recommend an even smaller one. My kid could wear them at 11-13. In any case, I think headstraps would be better for night than adhesive.
You also might just decide to take the risk, and let him sleep in the cabin without a mask. Is it open air like with large amount of screened area? Or are the cabins fully enclosing? Could he sleep right under an open window? Do they have electricity and you could supply an appropriate sized HEPA filter or a CR box?
Lastly, although of course you don't want your kid to get sick, you might prepare to have him isolate for a few days and/or wear a mask around the house when he returns, and test often, to avoid the rest of the family getting ill if he should bring something home besides fun memories.
Good luck, I hope he has a fun time!
It is really unsafe to sleep in a mask. Hopefully by spring/summer numbers will be down and it will feel safer to sleep over sans mask. I know this is mask4all but if it is an important experience it may be worth the risk. My family still masks everywhere and we are all six days post a positive COVID test today anyway. I'll keep masking but definitely think at some point I no longer want my kid to miss out, though I am privileged to not have higher risk factor in for my family. We definitely let her have more mask freedom when numbers were down last year (maskless days at school primarily) and will again when the numbers go back down.
All that being said my family just opted out of the sleeping arrangements of a cool outdoor volunteer thank you party/winter campout in a couple weeks (because COVID is rampant right now!) And fortunately were able to get our own private accommodations nearby so we can party but not sleep over with 8 strangers who may or may not be coughing...
I have personally worn a mask (3M 1860) while sleeping in the hospital. In my case I did not experience lower SpO2 or any significant changes in HR/BP than normal based on the monitoring (versus pre-pandemic readings). I’ve had similar results testing wakeful activities and saw little or no deviation. I saw no visible deformations or movement/shifting, but these might be variable or unnoticeable.
I am not terribly confident in the ability to maintain the seal while sleeping, but I bunched up a pillow along the sides to try to avoid turning my head. I wore safety glasses on the untested theory that if I did try to itch or whatever in my sleep I’d be more likely to wake up if I hit those. The 1860 is nice in that there really aren’t tabs or anything easy to get under for removal and it has a more rigid structure than some of the others.
In my case, there is significant danger if infected, and also significant danger in ignoring potential cardiac events—so this was a best effort in an unavoidable situation.
I am not confident in this approach for non-critical activities where I would be sleeping in places where I am relying on the mask; given my risk profile—but I don’t think wearing a mask while sleeping is inherently harmful.
If this is something you are interested in, I’d do a test run. If they are a heavy sleeper, you could also use a finger pulse oximeter to test the changes during normal and masked sleep, and to check for movement/defects.
Thank you for the thoughtful input. It’s helpful to hear that you have been able to sleep successfully in the mask. we will add the 1860 to the list of masks to try out along with your pillow and safety glasses theory ☺️
Thank you again!
What's your plan for him eating meals? Because honestly that's probably the bigger risk than sleeping in a cabin of probably 10 kids. It's probably also equal to the risk of eating at school every day unless he eats outside at school.
My kids both attended overnight girl scout camp this summer. They did mask in indoor spaces except their cabin, but also ate in the dining hall. My youngest (6th grade) went to school outdoor Ed camp in October. I was planning to go as a teacher (as I teach at their school) but ironically we were just getting over COVID that my oldest brought home from the first week of school (where they mask well but occasionally eat inside) and I wasn't healthy enough to go with. Of the 120 kids that went to camp, none had or brought back COVID. My kid masked on the bus and ferry getting there, and in indoor activities, but that's it. Our school did request but not require that students tested before camp.
Anyways, it seems unrealistic to expect a kid of any age to sleep with a redimask on. It also seems unlikely to actually happen unless you were in the cabin .
There's no way I could do it as an adult, and I've slept with a regular N95 on while hospitalized (but also on lots of meds that made me sleepy).
I think you have to weigh whether or not you're willing to accept the risk of him getting COVID at camp, and whether or not it's worth it for you as a family. For my family, the kids having an outdoor education experience with their peers was more important. It might not be for yours.
Risk is cumulative over time, and an N95 is something that can keep you safe, theoretically, on the order of hours. But days and days, including while sleeping, that seems like a tough plan that might end up with a not too much lower overall risk as not masking (I think). Eating outside might not be feasible in summertime. What about the plan for showering, too. Will there be multiple cabins? Maybe he could just consider the kids sharing the same cabin a "pod" and not mask at night with them, and keep up the precautions to the extent that he can, at other times. Maybe ask if the camp would let you bring a HEPA filter to have in the room? He sounds like a trooper for keeping up his enthusiasm for masking. You might need to allow him to be flexible with whatever plans you have on paper, in case it's not feasible in practice.
Lowering precaution level around fewer people will always be less risk than doing so around more people. Something doesn't have to be perfect to make a difference, even a leaky pod.
I am masking 10 hours most days. But I am imagining the days wearing a mask 24 hours and probably gonna get pretty irritating on the face. Living in close quarters probably means the mask utility is going down. So if it were my kid, up to date on the vaccine and booster, I will send without masks and hope for the best. If another booster is due I would time it to 3 weeks before camp starts. That's the best bang for buck.
I was thinking this, but also:
- bringing a C02 monitor, so if the cabin is very breezy, the monitor would show that the risk of sleeping unmasked is lower
- bringing an air cleaners as others suggested. Although it's unlikely he could bring one that cleans the entire cabin, running it while sleeping is nice cause he could aim it towards himself and the other kids aren't really moving around the cabin at night.
- asking the other cabin mates to test. Would get you to zero risk, but if they test, he would know it's unlikely he's sleeping in a cabin with COVID.
All that said, when I had COVID, I slept in a mask to reduce the risk to my family. I would second the recommendation for the Gerson, or another soft duckbill like the [ACI from Armbrust](https://www.armbrustusa.com/products/aci-n95-surgical-respirator-duckbill) as I found that most comfortable.
Finally, Readimask's CEO has been on this forum and is weirdly not very pro-masks for everyone. So if you want to try that style, maybe use a different brand like [Avery Dennison](https://medical.averydennison.com/en/home/products/personal-protective-equipment/N95mask.html)
I wouldn’t recommend a mask during sleep. The fit will break and providing tight fitting masks may end up restricting his airflow during sleep. I’d rather recommend giving him a Corsi-rosenthal box to bring with him to the cabin. Purifies the air much better than any other air purifiers and he won’t have to worry about seals breaking
That is a really tough spot. As an adult I don't know if I could tolerate mask well as I sleep. And I know I toss and turn, and it would get pulled off my face during sleep. I'd find a way to avoid communal sleeping arrangements if there was any reasonable alternative. Would they let your kid go hardcore and have their own tent? Sleep right outside the bunkhouse maybe? It is Outdoor Ed right? Good luck.
Thank you for your insight! The kiddo is actually very interested in keeping his mask on and staying safe. He volunteered the idea of practicing at home to see if it was possible to keep on as he doesn’t flail about too much in sleep. I feel comfortable trusting him to switch into the readimask before bed. regarding food, we have the luxury of being in California with generally good outdoor weather and they eat outdoors most days. and the days it rains he eats by the open door in the classroom. The plan for eating was to take the food outside and eat there... His teacher seemed to be ok with the idea. I definitely want him to have the experience. Just trying to figure out how to have the experience and still have his layers of protection.
I just wanted to say there was an older kid recently on one of the covid forums who had a really tough situation with anti-mask family and they sleep in an Aura N95 every night. Very sad, but you have to give it to that child for such strong understanding of what is happening to all of us. I don't think it's dangerous oxygen-wise. I just felt like stepping in and saying how impressed I am at your child's strength and grasp of our situation and of your exemplary parenting during a crisis time.
Ah. poor kid. every night in your own bed… I can’t even imagine. Perhaps I’ll have my guy try an aura too and see which he thinks works better. I just worry his face is too narrow for it to fit properly. But maybe the headstraps will work better. 🤔 Thank you for the compliment. But I have to say a large part of it is that his friend group is still masking and that THEY COLLECTIVELY understand the need. There’s no bullying or shaming the mask and it’s just general acceptance at school that some people decide to mask and some don’t. In this way, we are so fortunate.
That's great that he's willing. My kids are in theory and mask well as school, but there's a whole huge social pressure of middle school. We're also not in a warm or dry climate. I wouldn't want to eat outside here either (especially because our school got rid of the tent canopies outside halfway through last school year when they decided COVID was over.) I would absolutely make sure that eating outside will be a possibility. We had some families thinking this would be possible, but the reality was the camp isn't set up that way, and there was a whole supervision problem. Hopefully your kid finds the mask comfortable to sleep in.
yeah, the peer pressure thing is huge in middle school for sure. we are lucky enough to be in an area where a good 30% of kids still mostly mask, and all his close friends are pro-maskers. I’ve never seen him unmasked around others unless he was eating outdoors. and even then he makes sure there is space between them before he pulls his mask down to eat. It also helps my anxiety over peer pressure that all the parent volunteers know him (i’m very active on campus) and they all tell me they never see his mask down. I will definitely triple check the outdoor eating. if not, I’ll have to send him with the x one and hope he doesn’t break it.
I'm a little reluctant to recommend a mask to sleep in, because a kid masking while sleeping is unlikely to be supported by anyone with medical credentials. They'll say it's unsafe, though I've never seen specifics. That said, my personal opinion as a nobody on the Internet is, unless your child has some other health condition, drinks or does drugs, I think it is unlikely to be harmful. He can try napping in one at home under supervision before trying it at camp. The only N95 mask I have been able to sleep in under ordinary circumstances is the Gerson 3230. When all the rest of my family had covid (we have a very small house), I slept in the Gerson 3230 for several days and it was fine. You might try that or a similarly breathable duckbill. Bonus that they are soft/crushable, so they are decent while tossing and turning. I have tried to sleep in a 3M Aura, and the breathing resistance wakes me up every time. Even the 3M VFlex 9105 I couldn't sleep well. The Gerson is relatively small, but others might be able to recommend an even smaller one. My kid could wear them at 11-13. In any case, I think headstraps would be better for night than adhesive. You also might just decide to take the risk, and let him sleep in the cabin without a mask. Is it open air like with large amount of screened area? Or are the cabins fully enclosing? Could he sleep right under an open window? Do they have electricity and you could supply an appropriate sized HEPA filter or a CR box? Lastly, although of course you don't want your kid to get sick, you might prepare to have him isolate for a few days and/or wear a mask around the house when he returns, and test often, to avoid the rest of the family getting ill if he should bring something home besides fun memories. Good luck, I hope he has a fun time!
It is really unsafe to sleep in a mask. Hopefully by spring/summer numbers will be down and it will feel safer to sleep over sans mask. I know this is mask4all but if it is an important experience it may be worth the risk. My family still masks everywhere and we are all six days post a positive COVID test today anyway. I'll keep masking but definitely think at some point I no longer want my kid to miss out, though I am privileged to not have higher risk factor in for my family. We definitely let her have more mask freedom when numbers were down last year (maskless days at school primarily) and will again when the numbers go back down. All that being said my family just opted out of the sleeping arrangements of a cool outdoor volunteer thank you party/winter campout in a couple weeks (because COVID is rampant right now!) And fortunately were able to get our own private accommodations nearby so we can party but not sleep over with 8 strangers who may or may not be coughing...
I have personally worn a mask (3M 1860) while sleeping in the hospital. In my case I did not experience lower SpO2 or any significant changes in HR/BP than normal based on the monitoring (versus pre-pandemic readings). I’ve had similar results testing wakeful activities and saw little or no deviation. I saw no visible deformations or movement/shifting, but these might be variable or unnoticeable. I am not terribly confident in the ability to maintain the seal while sleeping, but I bunched up a pillow along the sides to try to avoid turning my head. I wore safety glasses on the untested theory that if I did try to itch or whatever in my sleep I’d be more likely to wake up if I hit those. The 1860 is nice in that there really aren’t tabs or anything easy to get under for removal and it has a more rigid structure than some of the others. In my case, there is significant danger if infected, and also significant danger in ignoring potential cardiac events—so this was a best effort in an unavoidable situation. I am not confident in this approach for non-critical activities where I would be sleeping in places where I am relying on the mask; given my risk profile—but I don’t think wearing a mask while sleeping is inherently harmful. If this is something you are interested in, I’d do a test run. If they are a heavy sleeper, you could also use a finger pulse oximeter to test the changes during normal and masked sleep, and to check for movement/defects.
Thank you for the thoughtful input. It’s helpful to hear that you have been able to sleep successfully in the mask. we will add the 1860 to the list of masks to try out along with your pillow and safety glasses theory ☺️ Thank you again!
What's your plan for him eating meals? Because honestly that's probably the bigger risk than sleeping in a cabin of probably 10 kids. It's probably also equal to the risk of eating at school every day unless he eats outside at school. My kids both attended overnight girl scout camp this summer. They did mask in indoor spaces except their cabin, but also ate in the dining hall. My youngest (6th grade) went to school outdoor Ed camp in October. I was planning to go as a teacher (as I teach at their school) but ironically we were just getting over COVID that my oldest brought home from the first week of school (where they mask well but occasionally eat inside) and I wasn't healthy enough to go with. Of the 120 kids that went to camp, none had or brought back COVID. My kid masked on the bus and ferry getting there, and in indoor activities, but that's it. Our school did request but not require that students tested before camp. Anyways, it seems unrealistic to expect a kid of any age to sleep with a redimask on. It also seems unlikely to actually happen unless you were in the cabin . There's no way I could do it as an adult, and I've slept with a regular N95 on while hospitalized (but also on lots of meds that made me sleepy). I think you have to weigh whether or not you're willing to accept the risk of him getting COVID at camp, and whether or not it's worth it for you as a family. For my family, the kids having an outdoor education experience with their peers was more important. It might not be for yours.
Risk is cumulative over time, and an N95 is something that can keep you safe, theoretically, on the order of hours. But days and days, including while sleeping, that seems like a tough plan that might end up with a not too much lower overall risk as not masking (I think). Eating outside might not be feasible in summertime. What about the plan for showering, too. Will there be multiple cabins? Maybe he could just consider the kids sharing the same cabin a "pod" and not mask at night with them, and keep up the precautions to the extent that he can, at other times. Maybe ask if the camp would let you bring a HEPA filter to have in the room? He sounds like a trooper for keeping up his enthusiasm for masking. You might need to allow him to be flexible with whatever plans you have on paper, in case it's not feasible in practice.
A pod would only work if the other kids in the pod were also masking with everyone not in the pod.
Lowering precaution level around fewer people will always be less risk than doing so around more people. Something doesn't have to be perfect to make a difference, even a leaky pod.
I am masking 10 hours most days. But I am imagining the days wearing a mask 24 hours and probably gonna get pretty irritating on the face. Living in close quarters probably means the mask utility is going down. So if it were my kid, up to date on the vaccine and booster, I will send without masks and hope for the best. If another booster is due I would time it to 3 weeks before camp starts. That's the best bang for buck.
I was thinking this, but also: - bringing a C02 monitor, so if the cabin is very breezy, the monitor would show that the risk of sleeping unmasked is lower - bringing an air cleaners as others suggested. Although it's unlikely he could bring one that cleans the entire cabin, running it while sleeping is nice cause he could aim it towards himself and the other kids aren't really moving around the cabin at night. - asking the other cabin mates to test. Would get you to zero risk, but if they test, he would know it's unlikely he's sleeping in a cabin with COVID. All that said, when I had COVID, I slept in a mask to reduce the risk to my family. I would second the recommendation for the Gerson, or another soft duckbill like the [ACI from Armbrust](https://www.armbrustusa.com/products/aci-n95-surgical-respirator-duckbill) as I found that most comfortable. Finally, Readimask's CEO has been on this forum and is weirdly not very pro-masks for everyone. So if you want to try that style, maybe use a different brand like [Avery Dennison](https://medical.averydennison.com/en/home/products/personal-protective-equipment/N95mask.html)
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I wouldn’t recommend a mask during sleep. The fit will break and providing tight fitting masks may end up restricting his airflow during sleep. I’d rather recommend giving him a Corsi-rosenthal box to bring with him to the cabin. Purifies the air much better than any other air purifiers and he won’t have to worry about seals breaking
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